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RACHEL REABE: MPR's Mainstreet Radio coverage of rural issues is supported by the Blandin foundation, committed to strengthening communities through grant making, leadership training, and convening. We invite you to visit the Mainstreet website. Go to www.mpr.org where you can hear today's program at your convenience.

The special Mainstreet flood website Remembering and Rebuilding also includes entries from a flood journal and photos of the people and places we're talking about today. The entire collection of MPR stories on the flood will also be available on the Mainstreet website. The address, again is www.mpr.org.

- (SINGING) In the big, big flood, our covers went down. And over the tide, in the big, big flood.

RACHEL REABE: Good morning, and welcome to a special Mainstreet Radio show live from East Grand Forks. I'm Rachel Reabe. We're opening our broadcast with music about last year's flood, written and performed by the people of the Red River Valley.

(SINGING) our covers went down. And over the tide, in the big, big flood.

RACHEL REABE: We're broadcasting today from East Grand Forks brand new city council chambers in this town along the banks of the Red River. Today, the river is placid and well-behaved, rolling slowly and steadily north, as it has for thousands of years.

12 months ago, though, you wouldn't have recognized the river or the towns it swallowed. When the Red River rolled over the dikes into Grand Forks and East Grand Forks on April 18, 1997, the eyes of the nation were drawn to the unfolding tragedy. Nearly 61,000 people were forced to leave their homes. It was the largest single evacuation in US history.

For the next two hours, we'll talk about how the people of the Red River Valley are putting their lives and their communities back together. But first, Mainstreet Radio's Dan Gunderson revisits the flood of '97.

DAN GUNDERSON: In early April, people in Grand Forks and East Grand Forks were piling sandbags high, confident they were ready for a record flood. Then the forces of nature conspired to send the Red River to levels no one expected. East Grand Forks police officer Marty LeTexier vividly remembers the beginning of the end.

MARTY LETEXIER: I was there when the second dike broke up on the Louis Murray Bridge, at the corner of second and fifth, and went around to check and find out where the water was coming from and stopped to talk to two teenage kids and ask them how things were going, where they were at. And all of a sudden, here come a wall of water.

I hollered on the radio. I said the dike broke at second and fifth, and then I ran and knocked down about what, four or five houses and didn't get in. And I got the heck out of there. I climbed a eight-foot fence that was back there to get away.

DAN GUNDERSON: When LeTexier returned hours later, the lights of his patrol car were still flashing underwater. Engineer Dean Whelan remembers being on the point in East Grand Forks, a neighborhood near the Red River, helping direct the flood fight from the cab of a backhoe as he and an operator tried everything they could think of in the frantic minutes before the city surrendered.

DEAN WHELAN: And we actually took a garage, just took it and threw it in a dike. And he picks up his garage in about six bites and throws it in there and throwing dirt on top of it. Now, if he didn't get it stopped, but then about 10 minutes later, it broke about a little ways downstream.

DAN GUNDERSON: As the dikes gave way, Dean Whelan and other flood fighters were forced to abandon their equipment and retreat, leaving hundreds of homes at the mercy of the river.

DEAN WHELAN: So I took the last 6 by 6 corps vehicle out before they started evacuating by helicopter. And there was mostly women, and children, and little kids carrying their teddy bears that are crying. And I tell you, that's when I-- it's hard to get it out of your mind.

DAN GUNDERSON: As water swirled through the streets, Grand Forks mayor Pat Owens and other city leaders begged residents to give up the fight and evacuate.

PAT OWENS: Walk away from those homes, walk away from those buildings. We will rebuild, and we will be stronger, and we will be in it together.

SPEAKER 6: Everyone living in this neighborhood, you need to evacuate. You need to evacuate this area.

LYNN STAUSS: April 18, I'll always remember, 1997 is changing my life forever.

DAN GUNDERSON: East Grand Forks Mayor Lynn Stauss remembers watching in horror as his entire town went under.

LYNN STAUSS: It took me back to Vietnam. I was a Vietnam veteran, and I could picture these helicopters coming in and the light shining down and the speakers going and saying, people, we need to get you out now.

DAN GUNDERSON: In moments, thousands of flood fighters became refugees. Many, like Peggy Bucci, were miles away before the awful realization of what had happened set in.

PEGGY BUCCI: It's all gone. Every bit of it, pictures, the personal items. We moved them into the second floor thinking they'd be OK there, and they weren't. My wedding video, things like that. It's just--

DAN GUNDERSON: One of the last residents to leave East Grand Forks was John McCoy. He stood at a Crookston shelter with his 18-month-old son and tried to make sense of the situation.

JOHN MCCOY: He's a handful all by himself when you got everything. Holy man, you going to be something now. So you're hollering at him and everyone looking at you like you're crazy, and you probably are crazy. I decided-- I found out we're in hell. This is it.

DAN GUNDERSON: Even as the final evacuations were happening, another disaster hit.

SPEAKER 10: We got a fire going downtown. We don't know what.

DAN GUNDERSON: A Grand Forks firefighter was videotaping the scene as fire trucks struggled to get to the fire through water-filled streets.

SPEAKER 10: We're going to go down, try to fight that bastard.

DAN GUNDERSON: The firefighters were unsuccessful. The downtown became a blazing island in a sea of floodwater. Deputy Chief Pete O'Neill was one of the first on the scene arriving by boat. He and two other men went into the burning building to make sure no people were left in the dozens of apartments threatened by flames.

PETE O'NEILL: We went from door to door and kicked in as many doors as we could until our legs got too tired. Originally we were knocking the doors in, but after a while we got too tired to knock the doors in, so then we were doing the best we could with just making a bunch of noise.

We thought we'd gotten everybody out. And then we saw somebody stick their head out from one of the apartments real close to the fire. And he says, oh, what's going on? So we realized that we didn't have all the people out.

DAN GUNDERSON: No lives were lost in the fire, something many firefighters consider a miracle. Deputy chief Pete O'Neill remembers fearing firefighters would be swept away by the raging water as they struggled to connect hoses to submerged fire hydrants.

PETE O'NEILL: You would lean into the current and you would focus on where you were heading and you'd walk to that point when you'd push against the water. There was actually ice chunks in the water.

The whole situation seemed very surreal. Nothing seemed to make any sense. It didn't seem possible that you'd look up in the sky and you'd see helicopters, and these burning embers, size of garbage cans floating overhead and crashing down around you, and all the buildings burning, and the floodwater is 4 to 5 feet deep.

DAN GUNDERSON: By the time the fire was contained, 11 buildings had been destroyed, leaving downtown Grand Forks a blackened shell. But water did the worst damage, destroying hundreds of homes and damaging thousands.

In time, the Red River shrank back within its banks and the process of demolition and rebuilding began a process that continues today. Almost a year after the flood, entire neighborhoods are being turned into rubble.

Hundreds of people still live in clusters of tiny mobile homes provided by the federal government, while the homes they lost to the river stand mud-encrusted and broken, a daily reminder of the flood of 97 and of the many unanswered questions about the prevention of floods to come and the long-term future of Grand Forks and East Grand Forks. I'm Dan Gunderson from Minnesota Public Radio.

RACHEL REABE: While Grand Forks and East Grand Forks have had their share of headaches and heartaches this past year, they've also had their heroes. Perhaps the best known are my two guests this morning, Grand Forks Mayor Pat Owens and East Grand Forks Mayor Lynn Stauss. Welcome, both of you, to our show.

Our phone lines are open for your questions and comments. Please give us a call today at 1-800-537-5252. The number again, 1-800-537-5252.

Three-fourths of the homes in Grand Forks, 99% of the homes in East Grand Forks were damaged by the flood. All of the downtown businesses were impacted. How do you two feel about the progress that you've made in the past year? Pat, let's start with you. Are you where you hoped you would be?

PAT OWENS: I guess what I can say is we're all in a hurry to get to full recovery. But I'm going to sum up by an article that appeared in the paper this morning that made me feel just great. James Lee Witt, the director of FEMA, was talking over the telephone to some officials in Fargo, North Dakota, yesterday.

And he said that they had never, the Federal Emergency Management had never been through a disaster of the nature that our two cities have gone through. And he said that the speed of recovery between the two cities, East Grand Forks and Grand Forks, is remarkable.

And this morning, as I was sitting on my couch, I was all by myself and I read that. And it's been a challenging year for Lynn and myself. And actually, the tears did flow because I thought, we wish we could be really normal right now.

We've come a long, long way, much further than I ever would have imagined, but we're not ever going to be really normal. We're going to be totally different and we're going to have to get used to the idea.

And I think people have been just absolutely marvelous. And I know Lynn will agree with me. We've been through a lot, but I believe that the true heroes of our flood are the people that have weathered the storm. And we've just been fortunate to be able to lead them. And I hope they feel the same way.

RACHEL REABE: Lynn, what do you think about the progress? If this had been a year ago, the three of us would have been waist deep in water.

LYNN STAUSS: We're in the bottom of the pool.

RACHEL REABE: So the fact that we are sitting on dry ground in this remarkable redevelopment effort in Downtown East Grand Forks-- this is the holiday mall that your new council chambers are in. This is so new, we can smell the fresh paint from where we are here. And this is really the centerpiece, or at least the opening shot in your redevelopment, isn't it?

LYNN STAUSS: Right. At the very beginning, we looked at, we had to do something positive downtown. We had all of the businesses that were flooded, and these people didn't know who they could turn to for help.

So we decided to take this building and remodel it, and it has turned into a very successful story for us because we have now 14 businesses that were taken out of business and because of the flood.

And then we have city hall down here also. And like you said, this was feet underwater last year. And now, we got businesses ready to open up for their grand opening on Saturday. And we couldn't be happier.

I think this particular building in both Grand Forks and East Grand Forks at this present time is probably the most successful story of the two communities because we were able to move very quickly on it.

RACHEL REABE: And Lynn, is the idea that these businesses relocate here, and then the ruined buildings, you have time to rehab them and open them up to other businesses?

LYNN STAUSS: Right. And there are other businesses that are looking into East Grand Forks and Grand Forks. Even though we've been flooded and they know what the disaster did, they're coming here and looking for an opportunity to be part of our communities.

So I think, as Pat mentioned, the true unsung heroes are all of the community people. And I think that this is reflected to some of the people across the nation within our state.

And they're looking that they would like their kids to come up in this type of community with this type of spirit. And so we're seeing businesses that are interested in moving to both communities.

RACHEL REABE: Mainstreet's Dan Gunderson is with one of the business owners in our audience today. Dan.

DAN GUNDERSON: Rachel, I'm with Bob Rosenberg. He's the owner of Mike's Pizza. And Mike's Pizza has been a landmark in East Grand Forks since the early 1960s. It's located about a block from here, right on the bank of the Red River and was one of the businesses that was totally destroyed, essentially, and will be demolished. A dike will be built near that site.

And Bob is one of the businesses that has reopened here in the holiday mall. Bob, what were the challenges of getting a business back when I think all you salvaged was a couple of metal tables from your business?

BOB ROSENBERG: Yes, I did salvage just a handful of things. And the federal government was generous with the programs that they were offering. But I think the city took a hold of this building and in fostered the businesses and gave us a real push to get us going. And it's turned out to be better in the holiday mall here than I had ever imagined.

DAN GUNDERSON: What was the greatest challenge with getting a business back going again? Were there times when you thought of simply walking away from it?

BOB ROSENBERG: There were several times I was going to throw in the towel, but my employees were checking with me every day and they wanted to go for it. And the spirit of the community is such that you could never find a better place, I don't think, to be in business.

DAN GUNDERSON: What did it mean to the community to have a landmark business like this reopen again? You were one of the first businesses to reopen after the flood.

BOB ROSENBERG: Well, we had-- over time, your thoughts are, jeez, all those people are going to forget about me and I'm going to open my doors, and having spent all that money, that you'll lose all those people.

But it's been a huge-- the response that I've got, the people are lined up out my doors every day at noon. And it's like a hero's welcome. It's a feeling I've never had before. People come in and thank you for being there and wish you well. And they just keep coming. It's just incredible.

RACHEL REABE: Bob how long were you out of business? How long was Mike's Pizzas down after the flood?

BOB ROSENBERG: We were closed for 9 and 1/2 months. We opened February 1 in the new location, and the people haven't stopped coming. It's just been terrific.

RACHEL REABE: Did it help having a place to go to? I see where your business was located near the river. There wasn't another place to go to because they were all in the same shape that you were.

BOB ROSENBERG: It was tough. I looked at several locations in Grand Forks and in a few different ones in East Grand Forks. And some of the programs moved slowly. I like to do things today, my way.

And I've learned, if nothing else, patience. And I think patience paid off. I picked out a good spot there. And with the help of the city of East Grand Forks, I suspect we're going to be there for a long, long time.

RACHEL REABE: And we can also almost smell the pizza from here. Bob Rosenberg, thanks very much. We're going to continue with our program. Our phone lines are open at 1-800-537-5252. Feel free to call us today if you have a question. We have Judy from Greenwood on the line. Go ahead with your question, please, Judy.

JUDY: Good morning. I would just like to ask, it seems to me that if the world or at least people in Minnesota would go through their homes and closets and find things that are wonderful and never used, where could they be sent to? That's what I'd like to know.

RACHEL REABE: That's a good question. Do you still need things? I know right immediately after the flood last year, people, there was such an outpouring of trucks, and trailers, and people coming into town. And it seemed very quickly the call came, please, no more used clothes. You were probably drowning under mountains of them here. Where are you at now?

PAT OWENS: Well, with Grand Forks, North Dakota, I believe-- and we've worked very closely together. I know that our information center, which is an offset of the mayor's office, takes calls and will direct.

And they have all the information as to where the needs are at this point, and they run them through a different agencies. And so if you'd ever want to call there, it's 701-746-2736.

And they could give you-- if there are needs in specific areas. And I know we do have the victory program working. And that is one area where they do know the needs.

RACHEL REABE: And once you give that number one more time, Pat.

PAT OWENS: 701-746-2736.

RACHEL REABE: 2736. Thank you for your call. We have Mary Jean on the line from Saint Louis Park. Good morning.

MARY JEAN: Good morning. I have a question for the mayor or for both people. One of my kids is attending the university up there, and I kept track on the internet.

I kept printing out all the-- and I have a whole file of internet messages. What do you think the internet did in playing a role in the recovery of that disaster up here?

LYNN STAUSS: I think internet and also everything from the news media, the papers, the radios, the TV, and as you mentioned, the internet, did such a part to get the news out to our people that were displaced throughout Minnesota and North Dakota.

And I know a lot of people throughout the nation were going to the internet and trying to find out what's happening with their hometown, what's happening to the university I attended before? So it was a very vital part on putting a link to those people that was needed throughout the United States.

PAT OWENS: I also concur with what Lynn said. And I recently got email on my computer, and I haven't even had enough time to run the messages that have come through on that email. They're overwhelming. But it's all in response to the internet and what they've seen on our two cities. So I believe it is a plus for us.

And our University of North Dakota right now needs all the advertising that they can possibly get. They closed down, of course, for the flood. And I think people still imagine that we're underwater, but they were up and running in the fall. And really, I--

RACHEL REABE: Have enrollments stabilized there, Pat?

PAT OWENS: It was down, but I think they figure that it will come up. But we are putting up a whole team of advertising across the country to target so they know that it's a great university in a great city and it's a place that people need to come to go to school. We have a great quality of education. So I think the efforts will pay off.

But it did put a stigma on it. UND was one of the places that came to our aid when our emergency center went under water and they gave us their operations center. And we worked and worked with them, and they gave us everything we possibly needed. So we do owe them a debt for what they did for our community.

RACHEL REABE: Lynn, you mentioned the media when she asked you about the internet. You said that the media was also a great help. A lot of attention, a lot of celebrating going on in these communities today when the word came last night that the Grand Forks Herald had been awarded the coveted prize in journalism, the Pulitzer Prize. Was that a delight for you?

LYNN STAUSS: Oh, such a deserving award for the Grand Forks Herald too, because they didn't stop printing at all. And every day, people that were displaced in other areas from Crookston, Bemidji, Warren, Thief River Falls, and even ourselves, because we didn't, at many times, get to see the television or what some of the radio stations that we didn't get to listen to.

And I waited to see the Grand Forks Herald in the morning to read what was happening to some of the families that had been displaced. Just the ones being displaced were wondering what was going on in East Grand Forks. Well, we were wondering what was going on with them that had left the city too. So it really did work to help all of us. And they deserved the award.

RACHEL REABE: We have Cheryl on the phone with us from Grand Forks. Good morning.

CHERYL HENDRICKSON: Good morning. well, my commentary was, as most people would expect from me, my name is Pastor Cheryl Hendrickson. And I just have to comment.

You had a program just before this one on about how the faith of Americans has been such an important part of their history. And certainly, the religious faith of people has been a very, very important part of going through this whole disaster before, during, and after.

The faith of the mayors, both Mayor Stauss and Mayor Owens, has been a tremendous inspiration to us all. And they have not been afraid to state their religious faith and their dependence upon god for these things.

The churches working together, of all faiths, people coming from all over the country because of their faith on the lord, and they're wanting to share that joy by service to our community has been tremendous.

Everything from the Salvation Army to Lutheran Disaster Response, which our church has been deeply involved with, to many, many, many agencies of every kind of denomination, of every kind of church has been so active in this community.

Our churches have been working very closely together. The pastors have been working together, people who maybe would have had arguments ad infinitum while colleagues in seminary have done nothing but embrace one another, lift up one another in prayer and in fellowship and work together.

The Victory Valley interfaith coalition to recovery has been a tremendous resource for everyone in the area as churches, denominations, and agencies have worked together. It has just been a terrific inspiration and the lord has upheld us through this whole thing.

RACHEL REABE: Lynn and Pat, let me ask you, we talk about the separation of church and state, and don't mix those things up. When a flood comes and almost washes your communities away, is that when the lines begin to blur?

PAT OWENS: I didn't even think of separation of church and state at that point. The only thing I believe in my heart and mind that carried our communities through is our faith. And

I personally, and I know Lynn the same, I attended many different church services. You almost forgot where you belonged because we were really hurting and you just needed to be together. And I think that's a great thing that happened.

I think America is losing a lot. I mean, it's not toward any one faith, it's all faiths. And I know Sunday we are teaming up to have an all-faiths service at 5 o'clock at the Chester Fritz Auditorium. And Lynn and I will be there. And we couldn't have made it without-- I know I couldn't.

LYNN STAUSS: I can just echo this same feeling, that Pat and I are different politicians, shall we say, because we're not politicians, we like to feel that we're people's mayors.

And we don't separate the church from the political part of it, I guess. And I think we needed to share that faith with the people of our community. And I know that one of the things that I said many times is, I wasn't a public speaker.

And when we had to go to Washington, DC, and speak in front of the senators and congressmen, you were very afraid of what you would say. You didn't want to hurt your community.

And I can remember many times going to the lord in prayer and asking for that help to say the right things for your community. And so we didn't hide our faith. We brought our faith out and shared it with the people of our communities.

RACHEL REABE: Were you criticized for that at all? Have you been? People say stop the god talk, let's get this city rebuilt. Or have people not said that?

PAT OWENS: Totally opposite in my city. I have people that come in. And I know, Lynn, you must get that too. And you pray a lot because they come in to try to gain strength from you.

LYNN STAUSS: I think the big thing is, you can't be phony in it. And I didn't want to go too far in faith in it because they know that I'm not the every Sunday worshiper.

RACHEL REABE: So you didn't want to be mayor turned televangelist? That was not your purpose.

LYNN STAUSS: Not at all. Mine was to eliminate some of that stress that was out there. And I just felt religion was a place you could go in a time of stress and need.

RACHEL REABE: We'll be back with a special edition of Mainstreet Radio from East Grand Forks. But first, a bit more music from Keep The Faith, a musical theater production written and performed by the people of the Red River Valley.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

[SINGING]

What goes up, must come down.

We filled sand bags all over town.

We piled them up, we stop the flood.

And now the basements filled with mud.

In comes the water, here comes the mud.

When you mess with the Red, the Red plays rough.

Volunteers shovel sand into a marsh, the land in hand.

Seniors down to little tykes make sandwiches and walk the dikes.

Here comes the water, here comes the mud.

When you mess with the Red, the Red plays rough.

We took upstairs all we can love.

Suck up the stool with an oatmeal plug.

RACHEL REABE: You're listening to a special Mainstreet Radio broadcast from East Grand Forks. MPR's, Mainstreet Radio coverage of rural issues is supported by the Blandin Foundation, committed to strengthening communities through grant-making, leadership training, and convening.

It is 33 minutes now past 11 o'clock, today's weather calling across the state for cloudy skies and rain in the south. It is mostly sunny where we are here in the north. Temperatures expected to be in the 40s statewide.

Tonight, a chance of rain, maybe even snow in the southeast with temperatures dropping down to the seconds. And tomorrow across Minnesota, cloudy skies, a chance of rain or snow in the southeast with highs in the 40s.

We are continuing now with this special Mainstreet Radio broadcast from East Grand Forks. Our phone number today, 1-800-537-5252. If you have a question or a comment, please give us a call. We have Gloria from Garrison on the phone. Good morning.

GLORIA: Good morning. I just want to pat both those mayors on the back for the wonderful work that they have done. My folks were one of the unfortunate couples that lost their home after 43 years in the Lincoln Park area.

And I have just visited them last night, and they are resettled in their new home. And I just think it's wonderful that they have survived this. And it could not have been done without the mayors, without all the people of Grand Forks, and the people of North Dakota, and in fact, the generosity of the people of our whole country.

And I am just so proud of them and so pleased that we are all survivors and did it with grace and integrity. I'm just pleased as can be. And that's really all I wanted to say to you. And thank you very much from the bottom of my heart.

PAT OWENS: I would like to respond to Gloria. Are your parents the two that I adopted at the beginning because they were so strong?

GLORIA: I think so, Mayor Pat. In fact, they said that they had seen you out at dinner just last week.

PAT OWENS: Your mother had a birthday.

GLORIA: Yes, she did.

PAT OWENS: I'll tell you, they have been a living model of the perfect people, perfect citizens. I can't say enough for that couple.

RACHEL REABE: Has it been difficult to be put in such a spotlight? Not even locally, not even statewide, but a national spotlight. Can you ever just break down and whine to people, or do you feel like you must keep saying we will rebuild, it will be better? Who can you talk to?

LYNN STAUSS: We always try to use the words bigger, better, and stronger than ever. Those are things that we've been using, positive words for rebuilding our community.

But sometimes when you mention-- we actually have been elevated to a different level of mayor than it has been in our community from the past. And sometimes you feel almost embarrassed when people come up and pat you on the back telling you what a good job because you want to turn around. And we do. I mean, we pat them and say--

RACHEL REABE: Which Pat just did.

LYNN STAUSS: Yeah, right. And it is almost embarrassing at times because Pat or myself do not look upon ourselves as heroes, we feel we're part of the whole community. And the whole communities are the heroes of this flood.

PAT OWENS: I think the main reason-- and I'm a quiet person also, Lynn and I, were very close. We had some little projects we were going to work on before the water overtook us.

And so I feel very fortunate to have Lynn as my co-partner in East Grand Forks. It's been a great team. However, I said I believe firmly that the news media helped our two communities significantly by keeping us up front.

And people understood what was happening and how our people were hurting. And that's the only reason that I've stayed front line. And I know Lynn the same way. It's just, we couldn't have done it without the people across the nation.

LYNN STAUSS: And I want to thank-- well, she did the news media, but also the congressional people, the senators and congressmen that kept us up in the front of the press out in Washington and made our story here available to everybody in the nation. And that's what kept the things going and kept the support coming to us.

PAT OWENS: On a less serious nature, Lynn, in Washington, DC, we were a team, where they'd run us to what they call the swamp. And it was sometimes about two miles away.

And I think they all-- I know Lynn made a joke about me the other day with my big purse and my high heels, and I thought I was going to have a cardiac arrest, but we made it. And so like he said, our congressional people, both states, we couldn't have done it.

LYNN STAUSS: The one thing I always think about in Washington, DC, too, they were moving us back and forth, the senators and representatives, so fast. And we had a lunch that they had gotten ready for us.

And the only time we had is to go into the garage to eat the lunch before we ran over to the next office. But we were glad to do it because it was certainly something that was needed for our communities.

RACHEL REABE: We have Mitch from Saint Paul on the phone. Good morning.

MITCH: Good morning. I'm a North Dakota native who has lived in Minnesota for the last 12 years, and I've rarely been quite as proud of my home state as I was last year.

But I have a question. There was some talk in the media down here in the Twin Cities last year about people comparing the relative styles of government. Of course, Minnesota's got a big comprehensive style of government, a large state government without the tax rate to show for it.

North Dakota has a smaller, more hands-off western-type of state government. I'm just wondering if the mayors from both sides of the river could comment on the differences in the types of support they received? Not from the feds, but from their respective state governments.

LYNN STAUSS: First of all, I'm so glad that we have a small city council and you have a large city council. It's always easier to work with a smaller group. As far as the state governments go, I don't really know how much Grand Forks is-- how many representatives that, but I thought it was relatively large considering the size of the state, the population.

But we haven't said anything about the state of Minnesota here on the help that they have given to us up to this point. And I have to congratulate the governor, the legislative people, the representatives, and senators. They have helped us an awful lot through this crisis.

And I know sometimes we talk a surplus and the money should be available to help out people in disasters. I think that's something legislators should look at in the future. Since there seems to be a disaster every year, put some money--

PAT OWENS: Or several per year.

LYNN STAUSS: Or several. But to put some money away so that we don't have to argue about it when this disaster helps, that we can give any community, whether it be the south, the north. Help them out at that time of disaster.

But getting back to your question, though, I think our legislative group in Minnesota have been very good to us. And we really, from East Grand Forks, want to thank them.

PAT OWENS: OK. I guess in North Dakota, we're a large city in a smaller state. I'll tell you, our governor has been right front line from the very beginning. In fact, he even put in place a retired national guardsmen, General Murray Sagebien, to carry on.

And he worked within our city to make sure that the needs were taken care of at the state level. They did our match with our FEMA buyouts. There was a 10% city match, which we couldn't do.

And our two senators and congressmen, Senator Conrad, Dorgan, and Congressman Pomeroy, they and the governor are different-- well, our congressional people in Washington are Democratic, our governor is Republican. They have melded together to help our city just tremendously. I just can't say enough for them. I would like to see them as lifetime in that job.

RACHEL REABE: Last year's floods and the resulting devastation have sharpened a long-running conversation about water management and flood control, especially in the Red River Basin.

Morrie Lanning, who is the mayor of Moorhead and chairman of the Red River Basin Coalition, joins us from our Minnesota Public Radio Station in Moorhead, KCCD. Good morning, Mr. Lanning.

MORRIE LANNING: Good morning. And good morning to--

RACHEL REABE: We have you on the-- do we have on air, Mr. Lanning?

MORRIE LANNING: Pardon me.

RACHEL REABE: Let's talk while we're setting that up about, how do you look at your city but also look larger? You talk about what's good for Grand Forks or what's good for East Grand Forks.

And the two of you have done what some people find to be a remarkable job of pointing in the same direction and walking along, concerned about your own communities, but also looking out for the other ones. How about the larger picture? How about flood control basin-wide? This is a group that has been meeting for decades. And there is still not a plan that's in place.

PAT OWENS: OK, well, first of all, I think Lynn and I are both alternates on that board, which worked out very well at this point because our schedules have been just overwhelming.

We have for years needed total flood control in the Red River Basin. And it's going to take years to accomplish that, but at least now they're working toward it with Canada.

I think the main thing that we can rely on that's going to be great for us is the International Joint Commission, which is Canada and the United States. It was put in place by the president and the premier to address these issues. And they are working with the Red River Basin Board to come up with solutions.

RACHEL REABE: Mr. Lanning, we have now on? Good morning.

MORRIE LANNING: Hello.

RACHEL REABE: Hi.

MORRIE LANNING: Can you hear me now?

RACHEL REABE: Thank you for joining us.

MORRIE LANNING: Good morning. And good morning to Pat and Lynn.

LYNN STAUSS: Good morning to you.

PAT OWENS: Good morning.

RACHEL REABE: Did the flood really galvanize the conversation about what to do?

MORRIE LANNING: Yes, it did. We have been working towards basin management program here for many years. But what the flood has done is to really give that effort a shot in the arm.

RACHEL REABE: And where does the money come from, Mr. Lanning, for that system-wide planning?

MORRIE LANNING: We are getting support from federal sources and state sources, and eventually we are going to need local support from entities throughout the base. And hopefully there would be some means to tax property throughout the basin.

RACHEL REABE: Now, when we see even on a smaller scale cities, Grand Forks, meeting tonight to look at a second opinion for the dike plan. And it's hard for a single community to get together behind a plan when we have three states, two countries, 30-some communities. How do you get people to come together?

MORRIE LANNING: Well, that is really a challenge for us to be able to pull everybody together and try to get people to achieve consensus on what should be done. But it's a challenge that needs to be done, and we have to keep our nose to the grindstone and make every effort to try and bring people together and achieve consensus.

There are things that we can do to better control floods in the Red River Basin, but in order to do that, we're going to have to have cooperation across political jurisdictions.

And any one jurisdiction can, in effect, veto something that somebody else wants to do. And so the only way you're going to achieve progress is for people to be moving forward together in consensus.

RACHEL REABE: Thank you, Mr. Lanning, for your time this morning. Our phone lines are open. The number is 1-800-537-5252.

Is there a question that people are so concerned with the immediate, the tyranny of the urgent, that it's hard when their house needs to be refixed, or they have to get the furnace in, or they have to think, let's spend some time and think flood control in the Red River Basin? Is it sometimes just too much on top of what you're doing?

PAT OWENS: You go first.

LYNN STAUSS: OK. Usually it's kind of surprising, but I think I get a letter once a week at least of somebody who's got a suggestion how to manage the water basin and help out so flooding would not happen.

But what Mayor Lanning and that group is doing from the South Dakota border, and North Dakota, Minnesota, and up into Canada is something that has to happen. And then probably some of these levees don't have to be put up that are very costly and take the homes out that are people's lives, where their families grew up.

So we really commend what they're trying to get accomplished, but it's going to take time. And we have to be patient and give them that time because it's a lot of people to put together when you're trying to work different states and different countries.

RACHEL REABE: And you don't have one person that just can come in and say, I am King, this is what's going to happen?

LYNN STAUSS: That's right. It has to be a cooperative effort. And we really commend what they're doing.

PAT OWENS: Democracies work well, but they work slowly, don't they?

RACHEL REABE: We talk so much about Grand Forks and East Grand Forks receiving so much of the attention, but they certainly did not have the corner on destruction last year.

Other towns were hit hard. Breckenridge, which is two hours south of us in Grand Forks, was swamped twice and hundreds of people had to be evacuated. We have Breckenridge mayor Cliff Barth on the phone with us. Good morning, Mayor Barth.

CLIFF BARTH: Good morning. And good morning to the rest of the mayors.

PAT OWENS: Good morning.

RACHEL REABE: Let me ask you, sir, is it better to be the mayor of a small town when natural disaster occurs or did you often wish that you had the people and the procedures in effect, that they might have had in a larger city, such as Grand Forks?

CLIFF BARTH: I guess my answer to that would be I can really relate to what Pat Owens and Mayor Strauss are going through, but I do feel that it is somewhat easier on a smaller scale, even though the devastation per capita was just as bad on a smaller scale.

It isn't quite as overwhelming. And I just can't even imagine with what I'm going through, what it's like up in East Grand Forks and Grand Forks. But yes, I agree that a smaller scale is somewhat better.

RACHEL REABE: And even now, one year after the flood, where Nightline is coming back in, and I know Pat and Lynn have talked about some of their media appearances today and the next day, that they are just booked all over from media all over the country calling them to see how things are going. Have you gotten any calls in Breckenridge to say, Mayor Barth, how are you doing there a year after?

CLIFF BARTH: In the past two weeks, I've had a lot of calls from all over the states here. And the answer to them is that we're doing quite well. I'm real happy where our city is at.

We have a long ways to go. We're in the process of next month starting our demolition of housing. About 130 houses are going to be tore down throughout the next year.

But I feel good about our city. We have recovered from the flood at this point quite well. We have a long ways to go and there's still a lot of pain and suffering in the process.

But the state federal governments, our representatives, and legislators have just done a wonderful job for us. The governor's task force just was overwhelming on how those people reacted and helped us out this past year.

And I guess the most important thing that I would say is that to have a person, we have Stan Thurlow on line to help us with this. We hired him before the flood and he's just an excellent man and has done wonders for us as far as getting the funding to do what we need to do.

RACHEL REABE: Thank you very much for your time this morning. We've been talking to Cliff Barth, who is the mayor of Breckenridge, a smaller community two hour south of here that was also hit very hard by the flood.

This is a special Mainstreet Radio Broadcast live from East Grand Forks. We're broadcasting from the city council chambers here just a block from the Red River. I'm Rachel Reabe.

My guest this morning, East Grand Forks Mayor Lynn Stauss and Grand Forks Mayor Pat Owens. Our phone lines are open for your calls and comments. 1-800-537-5252. Jim from Grand Rapids is on the phone. Good morning.

JIM: Good morning. I have a question for the mayors. I wonder how they find enough tradespeople, electricians, plumbers, sheet rockers, et cetera, to even begin to put a town like Grand Forks back in place.

In the town I live in, we just went through a small remodeling project, and it's hard to find a contractor here because they're all so busy and all so booked up. And it just seems like that would be overwhelming. I'll hang up and listen. Thank you.

PAT OWENS: I know in Grand Forks, the electricians and the tradesmen were in real demand. We put in place a one-stop-shop. They came from all across the country.

They had to meet certain requirements and we had to clear them to make sure that they were very legitimate and had good qualifications. So that worked beautifully for us.

Right now where we lack is we do not have enough people to go in and repair the homes. There aren't enough people because they doing the big jobs. So the smaller are left by the wayside. So that's something that our senators have asked that we work on.

RACHEL REABE: Did you put out a call, like calling all contractors from all over the country? And when they got here-- I know at the motel I stayed at last night, it was me and all the construction workers. So they have certainly populated the motels and the hotels here. Housing was such a problem for everybody, where do you fit the tradespeople in?

PAT OWENS: They basically stayed in hotels. They stayed in the Grand Forks Mission. I think even how some of them, they had trailers. They'd haul their own trailer homes up here.

I know I have a son-in-law who is an electrician about 300 miles away, and he hauled up his own living quarters and everything for his people. So it worked out OK.

LYNN STAUSS: There's no question, though, that vocational or trade is hard to find because all throughout the Midwest, they're having trouble with getting the personnel that they need.

East Grand Forks did implement a program into their vo-tech school to train younger people that could go in sheetrocking electrical work. And so that did help out. And we'll continue to do that.

But I think for the next five years, construction in Greater Grand Forks is going to be at the highest levels it's ever been, and we're going to need construction people for a long time to come.

RACHEL REABE: Are you thinking that people might come to Grand Forks, spend some time working here thinking it's just temporary and think, I like this place, I'm going to get out of this motel room and build my own house?

LYNN STAUSS: We're banking on it.

PAT OWENS: Yeah, I have heard that. I had a gentleman in my office from Florida doing wall work. He said, I just love it here. And I've heard of people that have actually moved. And we have Mortenson's Construction. Mortenson's project, they are a project manager, and they actually have moved some of their families up here.

LYNN STAUSS: You think, too, in East Grand Forks, we're going to have four new schools, and putting a pitch out here, putting an ad in. But four new schools, new residential area, new downtown business district. Yes, I think people will look at our community as a good community to live in, and Grand Forks is the same.

RACHEL REABE: Do you get mad when people say, you're probably happy that you were flooded out?

LYNN STAUSS: Never, ever said that.

RACHEL REABE: Never.

LYNN STAUSS: And never will say that. But let's say--

RACHEL REABE: But there have been articles in the paper, and The New York Times had an article that intimated, "Boy, this is the best thing that ever happened to these communities."

LYNN STAUSS: Well, the thing that you see, sure, there's disaster that comes with a flood with tornadoes that we've had in the state. But through disaster also comes the ultimate good in people throughout the nation, throughout our state. And then comes the help that's needed for these communities.

And it should come to help them restore not just to what they were, but to better than what they were before. And that's what we're trying to do with both our communities. We're trying to use the federal government, the state money to the best that we can so that we do have better communities.

RACHEL REABE: Is there some pressure to build it perfect this time? People will always say-- and they're saying it in Saint Peter and [INAUDIBLE] this week-- well, now you have a chance to really start with a clean slate and you don't have to say, well, it was too bad that 100 years ago, they decided to do that. But does come with that also quite a bit of pressure that this needs to be now model, this needs to be perfect? Do it right, don't make a mistake.

PAT OWENS: I think that one of the things that Secretary Cuomo, he's the Secretary of Housing in urban development said on a tape when he came to our cities to give us money was, none of us wanted that disaster. If we could go back, we'd be happy the way we were.

However, he said, out of this disaster has come opportunity. You are cities that can build your city almost from the ground up. So we will make mistakes because we have to take risks or we'll never move ahead. And we won't be perfect, but we'll be close.

LYNN STAUSS: The problem with being that perfect too is, what's your opinion of perfect is one thing and then you get so many different opinions.

RACHEL REABE: So 60,000 opinions

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LYNN STAUSS: But we're going to try our best to do it perfect to everybody.

PAT OWENS: The hardest part for me as a mayor, and I know Lynn can say this too, is you have so much money to work with. And it's a jump start from the government.

LYNN STAUSS: We'll trade you.

PAT OWENS: Yeah. But you have to take care of immediate needs under the guidelines, but you also have a step ahead five to 10 years to make your tax base strong, and you have to do things for businesses, and so forth. And I've learned how to do that. But unless you're right in the middle of it, people don't understand it. Five years from now, they will.

RACHEL REABE: But it's easy to be shortsighted when your house is falling down around you.

PAT OWENS: Right. And I have to stop and look at it that way or I would be against certain things also.

LYNN STAUSS: I think one thing we're seeing too is that new construction is much more costly than we ever thought. And so when something is taken down a home, for example, a residential home that a person had paid for on a fixed income, and it's probably 800 square feet to 1,000 square feet. Now to go replace that home, it's probably triple the value of what it was.

RACHEL REABE: So there's some serious sticker shock going on here.

LYNN STAUSS: And the same with business.

RACHEL REABE: Rachel from Bemidji is on the phone. Good morning. Go ahead with your question or comment.

RACHEL: I'd like to make a comment, and then invite any comment in return. We lived in Grand Forks for 19 years and then moved to Bemidji to retire in 1990. So our hearts were very much in and still are in the Grand Forks, East Grand Forks area as all this process has been going on.

One of the things that happened here was a town, which had no warning to get ready for this at all, suddenly, a town of less than 12,000 was entertaining about 4,000 evacuees.

And I know this is a story that's been repeated in a circumference, I don't know, but just outside the flood area, as people had to leave very, very abruptly. I think it's done something very special for the sense of community within this community and a sense of bonding with the valley folks, too.

And I'd like to invite your comment about that and any feedback you've had. As one of those communities, I'd like to hold up for recognition the little community 15 miles north of Grand Forks of Manville, which took the Grand Forks Herald in and made it possible for them to continue their never missing an issue.

I saw here at our emergency operations center every day, people hungrily waiting for the Herald to come and give them a link to what was going on in the town they couldn't yet return to.

RACHEL REABE: Taking in people and also taking in businesses, your comments about that, mayors.

PAT OWENS: Well, I guess, I have three things I'm thankful for. I'll put one. We could never have recovered without all of you. And across the nation, even overseas, we have received help for the citizens of our community.

And without the caring attitude, we never could have recovered. And I shall never forget a community when they go through a disaster. And I've heard many of our citizens say that.

RACHEL REABE: And I know you were in St. Peter just a week ago talking to people there. And one of the comments you made, I thought was interesting. You said, we're in the anger phase now.

PAT OWENS: You do get angry because you're not normal, and like I said, you'll never be the normal you were before, but it will pass. And we all understand one another. And we've been through so much, we have a right to be angry.

RACHEL REABE: So a great deal of empathy for people whether their towns have been hit by tornadoes, or flood, or anything.

LYNN STAUSS: And I also want to say to the communities around East Grand Forks, Grand Forks, the Bemidji, Thief River Falls, Crookston, Warren, they were so good to us.

And you are our heroes too, because you took our people. They had just the clothes on their back. You fed them, you clothed them, and you also lodged them. And we owe an awful lot to you. And you're right, we did become better communities, closer communities up and down the Red River Valley. And we want to thank all of you for that.

RACHEL REABE: We'd like to close this first half of our show with more music from keep the faith written and performed by the people of Grand Forks and East Grand Forks. My guests have been Grand Forks Mayor Pat Owens and East Grand Forks Mayor Lynn Strauss. Thank you two for joining us during your very busy day.

We've spent the first hour of our show looking at how the communities along the Red River are rebuilding after the flood. Next hour, we'll focus on how people are putting their lives back together.

Do you stay and rebuild or do you move and try to start a new life in a new place? We'll talk to people who have chosen different roads to recovery and we'll look at how the flood impacted the children of Grand Forks. It's all ahead as we continue this live Mainstreet Radio Broadcast from East Grand Forks after the news.

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SPEAKER 21: This week, listen for a series of reports and commentaries on treaty rights and tribal sovereignty in Northern Minnesota weekday mornings at 7:20 on Minnesota Public Radio KNOW FM 91.1.

RACHEL REABE: You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. It's 42 degrees at KNOW FM 91.1, Minneapolis Saint Paul. Today's Twin Cities weather calls for cloudy skies, scattered showers a high of 45 degrees. Blustery conditions tonight, temperatures dropping down to 32 degrees. And for Thursday, windy and mostly cloudy across the state, high of 43.