(00:00:00) Give a person a high school diploma, perhaps a college degree and add to that about 15 years experience in management and those sound like good qualifications for a promising career. Those are the qualifications that many women in this country can list but many employers are not impressed women who look for jobs outside the home once the kids are raised or once they have ended a marriage can meet a Stone Wall of Resistance from bosses. The women are competing with men and with other women who took a job out of high school or college in many cases and who have perhaps spent their entire working lives in that area. The last formal education. The Homemakers had may have been 15 years ago and they may not know how to prepare a resume. They may not know what skills employers are looking for. They may be trying to adjust to radically new living conditions as the result of a divorce. Well, these are a few of the problems faced by women and especially by women who are displaced Homemakers with us today is part of midday is Victoria van slyke who is director of The Working opportunities for women. And program in st. Paul the displaced Homemaker program is part of while wo W and a woman who has benefited from that program Marianne worm from st. Paul is also with us and we'll be talking to both of them today want to bid you good afternoon to both of you and Victoria. I'd like to begin by asking you who are the women who come to working opportunities for women looking for assistance. (00:01:22) We see a very broad range of women in terms of their ages. They range from 18 to 65 68 educational background. We see women with high school diplomas or less and we see women with Advanced graduate degrees in the displaced Homemaker project over the past 17 months. We've seen over 500 women who really meet the criteria you were talking about their re entering the job market after a number of years in the home in what we call our core program sixty percent of the women. We see are employed women. Who want to change careers or move upward within their current positions? So we're seeing a significant number of employed women who are either underemployed or want to make career (00:02:11) change the working opportunities for Women program. Victoria is a little bit more than an employment agency. Is that right? (00:02:18) In fact, we're not an employment agency and we don't have any plans to become an employment agency. Most women have a myself included have gone through our lives without any long-range plans for a career in some ways. It's much safer not to make a plan which you may fail at and so many of us prefer to hunt for jobs randomly and live with the consequences be they negative positive or otherwise, so it's extremely important that women are aware of what their options are and that means having a good working knowledge of occupations the working environment. Involve the training times involved how about the transferable skills may be utilized what the local opportunities are in the local labor market and without that kind of knowledge base. It's very difficult to make an educated decision about an occupational (00:03:15) future a bit later. I'd like to get a description from you on just how much work women can expect to put into an effort to find a new job of some sort. We'll get to that in just a moment but also with us as we mentioned is Marianne worm of st. Paul who benefited from the displaced Homemakers program that is part of working opportunities for women and Marianne. I wonder if you describe for us the conditions that led you to ask working opportunities for women for assistance. (00:03:43) I'm glad too I had been Going through the meal of Sita. That's putting it. Mildly. I had gone to see dough with a lot of High Hopes thinking. You know, now I'm going to be put in a job where I'll be able to utilize my skills wrong. I was just put any old place very little consideration. If any was given to my degree or by previous training. I was the first I won't name the jobs. I've been put into except for the last one the first one because I don't want to hurt the people that I worked for. They were really neat people and it's not their fault that I was misplaced. I was there for six months and I finally asked to leave because I wasn't utilizing my skills and I was becoming very frustrated. From there. I was Puttin on the recommendation of somebody with some power into a position that I can only describe as an absolute horror for instance the second day on the job. I started being threatened by my employer. He threatened to sue me. He told me I wasn't trustworthy. I was led to believe that my skills were going to be utilized to help with Working with people in the public sector it turned out that I was punished. I started being punished about the third day and the punishment consisted of being set behind a desk and told to read newspapers and scan for transportation needs. I stuck it out because it's not welfare. I don't know if that makes any sense to you or not. But there's nothing worse than being on welfare. (00:05:53) What prompted you to break out of that and to seek assistance from working opportunities for women? (00:05:59) He folded his place we were asked to do something that there was another woman there. We were asked to do something that I considered and she considered not ethical we refused to do it. There were more threats we brought Sita in that did no good. So the police closed I refuse to leave Sita they placed me with wa which is women's Advocates finally and it turned out to be an absolute Joy. I didn't even know while existed until one of the women Bernice it women's at w means Advocate said, why don't you try wow, and she gave me the name of a lady in Minneapolis who referred me to say And something positive for the first time in a year. (00:06:49) You said that the employer the job you have just described apparently wasn't interested in learning about your skills or putting any of your skills to use. Did you have the impression that you were filling a slot or just filling space and allowing that employer to take advantage of federal funding (00:07:03) it was all he wanted was a body. Literally he just simply wanted a body so that he could say I've got this many employees. It didn't matter he needed to get some money and he had to say he had this many people there. I'm not going to be just a body for anybody, you know and not to feed my family. I'm trained. I want to (00:07:26) work. What is the extent of your training you mentioned you had a college degree? (00:07:30) Well in 1971, I was divorced and 69. I went back to the you in 1970. I went to the you for the first time as an old freshman. It was marvelous in 1971. I graduated in. 75 with a triple Major mental health chemical dependency. I'm certified nose to and a specialization in criminal justice and then I interned on the pre-commitment team for Ramsey County for the mental health. And then I was at St. Paul Ramsay hospital for the chemical dependency and also at VA I've worked for the state for one year's a licensing consultant. I worked as at the child abuse. For Scott County in the child abuse unit most all of my training has been in a human services even before I attended the you and I love it. (00:08:29) Would you say Marianne that you return to the university because of the divorce or that you would have returned to the university in any case. (00:08:41) I think I returned because of the divorce a woman who? I didn't until I went through a while now. I'm speaking from hindsight but a woman who? Gets divorced and expects to go out and get a job that will earn her a living. I have six children and expects to feed those children and house them adequately it isn't going to (00:09:05) happen. Did you go through a job search before returning to the university? Right? What happened there? Well, (00:09:10) this was in a small town. I found out that I was having to get take welfare assistance to supplement my income and I don't want to do that. I didn't then and There was I was encouraged to attend the University. They said, you know, you have to think in terms of what do you want? I thought in terms of what I wanted. (00:09:32) How did you find the money and the support to attend the University with six children following a divorce (00:09:39) my children provided a lot of the support the money I found out that there's a know how I forgot the name of it, but it's through DVR 10% of the people that they accept have to be what they call culturally deprived smart enough, but you don't have the money (00:10:00) the department of Vocational Rehabilitation, right? (00:10:03) I applied went took all their tests and they gave me the money then it was a matter of defeating a County Welfare Department who said no woman from this county has ever gone to school and you're not going to set a precedent, but I did (00:10:21) find a very interesting president. And so I want to return to some details of that experience at the University and a few of the thoughts you had as you moved away from the University and to your job in a few minutes, but now I think I want to return to Victoria and ask you how how typical is Marianne's experience. (00:10:40) Marianne's experience is typical in terms of the struggle that she went through to find a way to support herself and her family with that with having very limited resources. What makes her less typical is the will to survive and the will to strive for success and self-sufficiency for women who have been married for example, 25 years and find themselves through death or divorce on their own. Literally. It's very difficult to begin seeing yourself in a different kind of way than you've seen yourself all of your life. I remember a woman saying to me deciding which newspaper to order myself to be delivered to our house seems like an overwhelming decision the fear of making decisions the fear of taking the risks to make a decision living with the consequences not trusting your own ability to make Intelligent Decisions. It's about your life and basically having a big vacuum in terms of determining your own (00:11:49) life Mary and listed a number of resources in agencies that she went to I think of to that she mentioned the department of Vocational Rehabilitation welfare, what happens to women displaced Homemakers, for example, when they must face the prospect of approaching bureaucrats or agencies, let's say do they find that one agency can help them or will they find as Marianne found in some cases that they will simply be shunted aside or put into a slot? (00:12:20) They'll find in many cases that their needs will not be either recognized or understood and because of the extreme pressure to make job placements women if they are served at all will tend to be when seeing publicly-funded providers shuffled into traditionally low-paying dead-end jobs a second thing that often occurs in tends to occur with women throughout the cultures that the victim is viewed as the person responsible for creating the situation. So the fact that a woman may be unemployed must find a job have very little training very little self concept as an employed woman. In fact, very little to equip her right at that time for a successful job search very often helping Professionals in the public sector will turn their anger on her for being so totally unequipped to find a job. Which compounds the (00:13:22) problem and that is where I presume working opportunities for women can make the difference and I wonder if you would describe for us Victoria. What are the facets of the program that you believe are directed at those problems. You've just cited. (00:13:38) one of the things that we attempt to do is Empower women to become economically self-sufficient and to become Economically self-sufficient she must become emotionally self-sufficient, which means when she comes to wow, she will not find a staff person who will make decisions for her. It is our policy not to do that. She will find that peer support in terms of career groups focusing on decision-making risk-taking motivation for work. Why do I want to work? I mean, there are a number of women who feel I have been pushed out of a role, which I've been in all my life. I don't want to work but I have to work and feel really paralyzed in that kind of situation. She'll find that kind of peer support women who are saying I've been in that situation this was what was hardest for me. This is how I got through it. This is what it's like on the other side. (00:14:37) I'm thinking as you're talking about that that this obviously is a very wrenching time for women to come up against this and the thing that Mary Ann mentioned was the emotional support from six children, but I assume many women do not have any kind of emotional support from family that they can rely on is that so (00:14:56) that's especially true of displaced Homemakers because the role of Homemaker is an extremely isolating one comparatively speaking. It's far more isolating than entering the work world every day a woman's domain May well be her immediate home occasional involvements with church school and so on but for many women, it's the first experience of meeting with other women discussing significant issues revealing oneself fears Panic Shame Shame at being divorced shame at being unable to find a job when the prevailing expectation is Most of us after three interviews you certainly should have something and so the whole process tends to be fairly demoralizing for women who are not able to put it into a more objective perspective (00:15:49) now besides the emotional support you've just talked about working opportunities for women offers help in such things as writing a resume identifying marketable skills learning which jobs are available. So on and so forth. What is the success of wow (00:16:07) because we are not an employment agency. We do not measure our success in terms of job placements or training placements despite the fact we don't do that in the displaced Homemaker program. For example, 58 percent of the women. We have worked with have been placed in employment and 28 have been placed in training which means over three-quarters of the population. We've served have been placed in employment or training fine. In a job which is lasting finding a job that is going to be around for more than six months requires a sometimes agonizing process of who am I? What do I want? What do I have to offer and am I confident enough in what I have to be able to persuade a prospective employer that he would be lucky or she would be lucky to have me within that work environment (00:16:59) and we should at this point. I think return to Marianne and perhaps solicit a testimonial. Why do you think the displaced Homemakers program worked for you? (00:17:08) Because when I went in I I could intellectually say I'm a good person but emotionally I wasn't feeling good about me because it seems like the last year I had spent a lot of time trying to prove I was okay. I encountered a miracle worker by the name of Mary eggen another one by the name was Cindy and yet another by the name of LTC more. There wasn't they didn't set expectations for me. It was all right for me to say, you know, I'm getting depressed and it bothers me. The beginning of the positive was something as simple as putting together a resume. I hadn't I had been putting together a resume but it wasn't the positive resume. You know, I helped write a book while I was at the you as a student. Now. I had never put that down on my resume. I got a mirrored award from the state. I'd never put that down on my resume. I had done a lot of things, you know, I figured if I get donations that's I never thought of that as fundraising all of a sudden. I'm looking at this and I'm thinking that is me, that's me and I put together a resume that I don't mind telling you I'm really proud of it and I'm learning to to I never would have dreamed of taking a low-risk interview. Okay, I didn't even know what one was but I sent out my resume for a job listing that was for six months and I went and took it simply. I knew that it wasn't a high-pressure thing. I mean I would if I didn't get that job. I wasn't going to get blown away, but I was going to get the practice at interviewing and then when I didn't get the job I called up and I said, can you give me some feedback on why I didn't get the job. How did I come across in the interview? All of these things kind of feed into you and help you I found out that there was someone in the program that was hired because she was already familiar with this particular job, but I had the feedback that I did a very good interview. the positive support the helping you explore you and find out that you're really a good person and I think a lot of women myself included need to know that. I don't want it to be a testimonial because that sounds like something you feel you have to give. There is something for women. And it's working opportunities for women. I don't care how you have to get there. If you have to hit your ride if you're looking for a job you need to prepare for that just like you would prefer for anything else. You should go there because now it it was a month for me to go through the program. I tell you honestly, I wish it had been longer just a just a tad longer. But still I got enough out of that program that I'm out and I can actively seek employment and I can be confident. I think that's the biggest thing is being confident when you're looking (00:20:36) employment that you are seeking right now. That's right. The displaced Homemakers program is a state-supported program. The legislature appropriated funds in 1977. Is that correct? The current correct now, I presume I'm guessing that this is just the tip of the iceberg how many women are turned away that simply cannot be helped because there is not either staff for funding to to perform the (00:21:01) help because the project is still relatively new and the phenomenon of a displaced Homemaker is almost as new we have not needed to turn away any woman where else we've seen a number of women who don't meet the eligibility criteria criteria for the state funded program, but then fortunately we have the core program so they can receive The same Services what is a different program? What is the core program the core program basically involves the same combination of intensive work in groups 121 counseling special series of workshops and employment assistance which is offered to displaced Homemakers the emphasis in that program. However will include in the fall when we Implement a new program more emphasis on the employed woman who wants to make a career change and that includes a lot of women who are marginally employed a woman with five children who were in 600 a month as a secretary, for example, she is employed. She is very likely ineligible for a lot of state-funded programs or a woman who may be in a battering situation with three children knows that she has got to move has got to leave her marriage in order to preserve her life. She is not eligible until she leaves for services through the displaced homemaker. And so it's been very important for us to offer a core program for which any woman can be eligible to receive (00:22:32) help. There is only one rural displaced Homemakers program in action right now. Is that right? That's correct in Minnesota. And that is in the southern part of the state where bounce (00:22:41) man Kato, it's based in Mankato serves Mankato Fairmont and some surrounding communities. The legislature has all just designated funds to establish a third Center out State the location has not yet been designated. So that will mean Minnesota will have have funded three displaced Homemaker centers and Minnesota. And by the way is one of the most Progressive states in the nation in terms of funding providing State funds for the establishment of displaced Homemaker projects that the number of states which have done that you can count on one hand and Florida for example, establish the center but didn't allocate any funds to operate it. So they took a rather Progressive. Of position without the wherewithal to implement the (00:23:27) project want to put one final question to both of you Mary Ann first. What is the attitude you have discovered among people when you tell them that you received assistance from a displaced Homemakers program and they learned about some of the things that you received from that program. I'm interested especially in what business people have thought Birdman perhaps men. (00:23:48) I haven't I hadn't mentioned that I've gone through a displaced homemakers. I'm out there selling my skills and I don't think it's important that I tell them how I got to this point. I think the only time that that question comes up is when someone asks me now you have children. Do you think you're going to be able to do this job? I simply say that I have planned for this. This is my career. I made all those decisions before I ever went to interviewing and if they want to go in and push it a little farther that I'm going to say. I've gone through while I've examined the options available to me and that's why I'm here seeking employment. I think that's all they need to know. They wouldn't ask it of a guy (00:24:41) Victoria. What is the reaction you get from the business Community to working opportunities for women and displaced Homemakers programs. (00:24:49) The reaction to working opportunities for women is generally quite favorable. I haven't experienced the threat among employers that I might have anticipated a couple of years ago. In fact, we receive a number of requests from employers that we recruit women for occupations at various levels, whether it be in banking manufacturing technical fields, and so on I think the term displaced Homemaker just because the word Homemaker is used and Homemaker in this culture is extremely devalue you'd would connote to the general public now an inability to organize an inability to work independently. Marginal intelligence primary Affinity towards giving and for that reason we tend not as Marianne said tend not to emphasize the displaced Homemaker aspect, but rather qualified women who have gone through a rather exhaustive process of deciding where they want to be and how to get there. (00:26:01) Well, thanks to both of you for joining us today as part of midday. Good luck. We've been talking with Marianne were Mo st. Paul and Victoria van slyke who is director of working opportunities for women. It's time for some telephone numbers and addresses, and if you don't mind, I think we should give out the address for working opportunities for women, and that's working opportunities for women and the Saint Paul address is the YWCA Women's Center. That's the YWCA Women's Center at 65 East Kellogg Boulevard 65 East Kellogg Boulevard in st. Paul now the zip code for That is five five 101 and the Saint Paul telephone number for working opportunities for women is 2278 e 40122783401. Now there is another address for working opportunities for women. This is a Minneapolis address 23:44 Nicholas Avenue South 23:44. Nicholas Avenue South in Minneapolis. Zip code There is five five four. Oh four and you should put just ahead of 23:44 Nicollet sweet 240 sweet 240, and the telephone number in Minneapolis is 87466368746636 Victoria. Do you happen to have the address or the telephone number for the Mankato Center? (00:27:20) I'm sorry done. I don't have it with me but for anyone who's interested call either of the phone numbers that Don mentioned and we will be happy to put you in contact with the Rural Center. (00:27:32) All right, very good and thanks to both of you again.