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DULCIE LAWRENCE: This weekend in Minneapolis, two representatives of Women's Lobby Incorporated of Washington D.C. addressed the Midwest Regional Abortion Conference on topics related to politics and abortion. I talked to Ms. B Blair, vice chairman of Women's Lobby, along with two women political candidates, Republican Beverly Braun, who lost her race for the Senate two years ago in District 49, and Janet Clark, DFLer, who won election to the house last Tuesday from Minneapolis District 68. Although she did receive party endorsement at the convention, Mrs. Clark was not supported by the House DFL caucus. I asked Janet Clark if her sex had something to do with it.

JANET CLARK: Yes, I think so. I did have the DFL party endorsement. I received the endorsement at the convention, but I did not receive the endorsement from the House caucus. And I did not receive endorsement from the Labor movement. I had only two small Labor endorsements. And I think that-- it was very lonely. And on the screenings, the labor screenings, for instance, there were no women, with the exception of two screenings. And I definitely felt I was discriminated against.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: What gave you the strength to go through with it?

JANET CLARK: I had many, many people in my campaign, the little people of the district that were working and many women that were very concerned. And they wanted to have more women representing them. And they felt so strongly about it that when I was feeling very lonely, I went to them often and talked to them. And it gave me more support. And I could go on. And I had a husband that felt very strongly that I should be elected to the legislature. And I had two children that felt very strongly that I should be. And with this, it gave me the encouragement to go on.

BEVERLY BRAUN: We had six other women candidates, I believe-- and I think I'm right on this-- that were endorsed by the Minnesota Women's Political Caucus, but who did lose. Why was that? Is it that the women's political organizations don't have the clout that the regular party organizations have?

I think that we've all many times realized that sometimes a certain kind of an endorsement can hurt you politically more than help you because of what the public thinks that endorsement means. Janet can speak to, if she had been running in a different area, how important or unimportant the Labor endorsements would or wouldn't have been. It's depending on your situation.

And women's organizations, again, in the public, have sometimes a concept of the radical man hating whatever. Therefore, I think there were possibly people who those women's groups would have endorsed, but either the candidates didn't want because they felt it might be a liability at this point or there are many things to be considered. As to the candidates that were endorsed, I can't speak accurately on who they were and what other kinds of support they had.

The public certainly isn't ready for just feminist-oriented candidates. That has to fit into, I think, a broad platform of other concerns. But I would like to add one other point. In the state, there were many women who were not elected either. But it's interesting to note that there were a high percentage of men who support feminist issues elected.

Maybe it's a staged kind of thing, where we can't totally get the woman to be down there representing our interests. But we are at least getting to the point where we have some men who are. And then the next step is the woman to represent herself. We'll do it ourselves, thank you.

JANET CLARK: I did receive the feminist caucus endorsement. And soon after that, my opponent went to Labor movements and so on and said that I was a wild-eyed feminist radical. And I had to go door to door to prove that I was interested in more than just issues dealing with feminism and so on, taxes. All the other issues had to be brought to the voters in the district. And you have to prove that you're not just a feminist. You have to be more than that too.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: Janet, are you saying that you won in spite of your feminism? Is that?

JANET CLARK: Right. Yes.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: I asked Mrs. Blair if abortion was the most important feminist issue and whether it has become a kind of blood test for whether or not a candidate believes in women's rights.

BEATRICE BLAIR: I think one reason it's gotten that impression is because there's no other group. There's no group out there really fighting against child care, in the sense that there's a group fighting against abortion. There's no other group that's really fighting against equal pay for equal work credit. I mean, they're fighting behind the scenes. There's plenty problems on this. But you don't have this fanatical and well-financed group who are in there threatening members of Congress the way-- and scaring them up until recently.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: Up until recently, you think it's a thing of the past?

BEATRICE BLAIR: Oh, no, I don't. I surely don't. But I think now the issue is beginning to be drawn. Because I think what happened for our side was that after the Supreme Court decision, we felt we'd won. When the Supreme Court speaks, most normal people will accept that. And we didn't realize that this group was working harder than ever. They have a lot of money. They're well-financed. And we suddenly woke up one morning and realized we had a tough, tough fight on our hands. And we're now getting organized. But it's going to be tougher this next year.

JANET CLARK: If I could interject a point on your question on abortion as far as a key issue. The women's movement did not begin a few years ago. The women's movement began in Seneca Falls in the middle 1800s. And it's interesting to look at history and realize that they outlined many of the same goals and many of the same concerns that any feminist would today.

One aspect, one vehicle for being able to accomplish all their other goals was the right to vote. That became the focal issue, as I think abortion has become a focal issue today. It took them 56 years to get that one aspect of what they felt was important in the women's movement. At which point, they were tired. And wars came along, and economic problems, and all these other things.

And so the women's movement was rather dormant for many years. And it also became very involved in the abolitionist movement, which was the hard slavery versus the soft slavery. And we were the movers in that too. So after all those years, we were tired, and we rested for about 40 years. And we're back now.

And I think, again, they have picked on one key issue. Now certainly, you can follow the development. If you don't have the right to control your reproduction, then you do have problems when you talk about employment. Because you cannot necessarily control your ability to work or your ability to do other things. All these other things do go back to reproductive freedom. But it is certainly not the only issue in a feminist's attitudes or concerns. But it has become, as B is saying, a very easily identifiable issue, a very polarizing issue, and so a pivotal thing.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: A terrific burden on the candidate, when you make this-- I guess we should ask Janet that because she's just, just having gone through that. I just wonder, Janet, do you ever have to have to wrestle with this, the question of whether civil rights can ever triumph over theology?

JANET CLARK: Yes, I had to wrestle with it.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: Are you tempted to say there is no answer, and I'm not going to deal with that?

JANET CLARK: I guess yes, that's kind of the way I feel. It was difficult at first because I felt that this was going to be the key issue, namely because my opponent was going door to door, saying that it would be. And the more I thought about it, as I went door to door, I didn't get any reaction back from people, saying, well, how do you stand on this issue? Again, I have to go back. They feel strongly about many different issues. And I just feel that you can't legislate morality.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: I asked if there was a danger that women might lose the idealism that has fueled the movement in recent years and become politicians in the stereotype sense that is responsive to the heaviest pressure groups? Again, Mrs. Blair.

BEATRICE BLAIR: Obviously, either one or two things happen. Either the system will change the women or women will change the system. And I happen to believe that women will change the system. And I think there are statistics that will show, for example, that more women oppose the war and more women are concerned about human issues and things like this. And I think you'll find as women get more power, and certainly political power is very important piece of this, that the system will change, will become more responsive and more sensitive.

As I was door knocking in this campaign, I door knocked on the door of a woman that was about 75 years old and a feminist. And she made a comment to me that I'll remember the rest of my life. She said the men got us into this mess, it'll be up to the women to get us out. It was beautiful.

JANET CLARK: One of the things that I feel very strongly about, I guess it's the same kind of thing that B is saying about women changing the system. You have to understand the system, that people are given a charge to represent a large group. And then they have to try to keep that job. And so political pressure is a reality. I mean, it is not immoral to say that I have to be concerned about being reelected if I'm going to do anything. But it becomes immoral if you compromise more than you've got left. At least, that's my observation.

But I think one of the things that the whole anti-war movement showed us was that, one, you have to elect the right kind of people. And two, you have to sensitize the public to support the same goals that you elect the people to, the representatives to support. In other words, you can't just-- as we keep screaming, you can't just force certain things on the people. You have to make the people want them and make them more acceptable to the public.

As we're seeing more, as we talk more, as we do more, the public is going to be less repulsed by certain things and more in tune to certain things, up to and including the classic example that's used about women crying. Well, I've often said, if a few women had shed a few tears in Congress, maybe fewer wars would have been declared.

BEVERLY BRAUN: Or a few men had shed a your tears.

JANET CLARK: And I think as we accept the fact that we are talking about that which affects many human lives, and therefore there is nothing wrong with human emotion. There is nothing wrong with-- we have to make emotions politically acceptable.

DULCIE LAWRENCE: Beverley Braun of Saint Paul, a Republican, Janet Clark, Minneapolis, new DFL member of the House of Representatives, and B Blair of Women's Lobby, Washington DC. I'm Dulcie Lawrence.