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TOM CRANN: It's All Things Considered. From Minnesota Public Radio news, I'm Tom Crann. After leading the movement for gay and lesbian equality in Minnesota for 21 years, Ann DeGroot is stepping back. Today is DeGroot's last day as the executive director of OutFront Minnesota, the state's largest advocacy group for GLBT rights and issues.

And the organization's co-founder was recognized earlier today for her work and longevity at the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force's annual conference. To talk now about how GLBT issues have evolved throughout her career, Ann DeGroot joins us from the Creating Change Conference in Detroit. It's good to speak with you.

ANN DEGROOT: Thank you. Good to talk with you, too.

TOM CRANN: So take us back to 1987. And you founded a group that at that time was known as the Gay and Lesbian Community Action Council. It's the predecessor of OutFront. I have that correct, don't I?

ANN DEGROOT: That is correct, yes.

TOM CRANN: And what was the landscape like then for gays and lesbians in the US in 1987?

ANN DEGROOT: Well, it was interesting. At that point in time, only one state had a law that prohibited discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation, and that was Wisconsin. And so now, we have about 20 states who do that. Most of them include gender identity as well as sexual orientation. So that's a really big deal.

TOM CRANN: Give us an idea of some of the key victories as you see them for the movement between now and then that you worked on.

ANN DEGROOT: Well, there's a couple of them that are legislative that I'll point to. The first one is that we passed a statewide statute in Minnesota that protects people on the basis of sexual orientation and gender identity. And that's a huge, big deal. We were the eighth state in the country to do that and the first one to include gender identity.

And then for three years in a row, in '04, '05, and '06, we were able to really keep a very mean-spirited, I think, and bad constitutional amendment from going on the ballot, which would have said that the state cannot recognize same-sex relationships in any way. So we were able to do those two things. And those are monumental achievements.

But I would say that the most important thing that's happened in the last 21 years is simply the number of people who have come out for gay, lesbian, bi, and transgender equality. And that's what makes all those other changes possible. everywhere around the state of Minnesota now, there are people who support GLBT equality.

In 1987, I could go to several legislators, and they would say, I might support your issue, but I have none of you people in my district. And you can't do that anymore. People are out. They are the advocate for GLBT equality. They're articulate. They actually do things. And so we have quite a movement in Minnesota for GLBT equality. And I think that's the main thing.

TOM CRANN: In 1987, when you founded or co-founded the group that would become OutFront Minnesota, could you have looked ahead and imagined even that the issue of same-sex marriage would be the part of the debate that it is today? Is the fact that it is, if you will, on the table and debated, can that be defined itself as progress?

ANN DEGROOT: Yeah, I think so. Actually, I have to tell you, Tom, I think that the GLBT community and the group of people working for GLBT equality benefited from all of that, the marriage constitutional amendments. And I don't mean that in the sense of the states like Wisconsin and South Dakota, who now have constitutional amendments banning same-sex relationships or legal recognition of them.

But what I do mean is that it has mobilized our community. It has mobilized a broader base of people for GLBT equality who really understand what's at stake and who feel that those kinds of efforts are so unfair and unjust that they just don't want to be part of that.

And so it's really moved a whole new layer, a whole new group of people forward on this issue. And that's been more valuable to us really than anything. So we have a platform now from which to move forward, and to grow, and to change.

In 1987, I would never have predicted that at this time this is what we would be doing. I would have been thinking that we were talking about anti-discrimination laws, that we might have been talking about the military and the federal level, that we might have been talking about legal recognition in some way, shape, or form. But to think about it as marriage is just amazing. We had no idea then that that was going to happen.

TOM CRANN: What do you say to the people and maybe religious leaders and all who say that people shouldn't be changing their attitudes on these? There are certain fixed-- there are certain fixed principles that either as a church, or as a people, or a nation that we must adhere to. What's your argument there?

ANN DEGROOT: Yeah. There are those beliefs out there. And while I respect the fact that people get to have those kinds of beliefs, I also believe that because we live in the United States of America, one of the cornerstones of this country is that we respect everyone's belief, and that everybody has the right to have both an opinion and a belief system that they adhere to. So our country needs to make room for all of those rather than closing out any group by making laws that limit them.

I also have to say that if you look at the history of civil rights in the United States, what you'll see is a time in the '50s and '60s when some of the very, very same arguments that we are hearing now about same-sex couples, about gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people were made about people of color.

And so a group coming of age, a group coming into a community and being accepted for who they are takes some time. And we always see in this whole movement a period of time when some people are just going to be resistant, and they're going to pull out all of the stops. But that doesn't mean we should stop because the attitude evolves and changes on a regular basis.

TOM CRANN: And when you look back, what surprises you most about the past 21 years?

ANN DEGROOT: How quickly things changed. I know it seems funny to say. 21 years is really a pretty long time. It doesn't seem like very long to me right now. But things have changed so quickly, so quickly that a lot of the young people that we work with have never experienced a situation in their school where they weren't treated OK because of their sexual orientation or gender identity or their support for people.

It's so different today that many people in the workplace don't remember what it was like when you had to hide who you were and where you didn't have benefits that covered your partner as well.

Now, this isn't to say that everything's solved, because it's not. But the times are so different. In 1987, corporations may have had some non-discrimination policies, but they didn't come out for GLBT rights like they do now. Over 200 corporations in Minnesota offered domestic partner benefits. That's amazing. I never would have predicted that in 1987.

So the changes are very, very, very fast. And they've affected people's lives, intimate personal lives, and their ability to have a job, to hold a job, having a place to live, not living under the constant fear of harassment or violence. And while those things are still very real in this community, they're not real in the way that they were 21 years ago. Things have changed very, very much.

TOM CRANN: Today is Ann DeGroot's last day as the executive director of OutFront Minnesota. Ann DeGroot, thank you so much for your time today.

ANN DEGROOT: You're welcome. It's been a pleasure.