(00:00:00) From Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Greta Cunningham Rose mayor says the town's dikes are holding and the Roseau river is falling. It's now down a few inches from its Crest last night. The river had been four and a half feet above flood stage a Twin Cities oil refinery has shut down almost all of its gasoline production because of a mechanical problem Marathon Ashlyn Petroleum in St. Paul has halted about 26,000 gallons of daily gasoline output. The company official says the repair should take about two weeks. All of the refineries gasoline stays in Minnesota and Wisconsin, Minnesota Commerce Department officials say they don't know yet how severely the state's gas. Supply could be affected Wildlife officials want to know whether the double-breasted come rant is studying is affecting Minnesota's wild fish population on Lake Superior workers harass comrades by trying to keep them from nesting on knife Island just off shore from Knife River. That's the North Shore's biggest spawning ground for rainbow trout Bill Paul runs. The agriculture Department's Wildlife Services Program in Minnesota. (00:00:58) It's a learning experience to see You have if we can impact them with harassment measures, you know to know if this is a feasible technique to apply in other situations where you know, there's perceive damage. And also we're learning something about what type of fish species are actually eating and in Lake Superior and (00:01:17) stuff. The DNR also will conduct a census of comrades around the state. This summer comrades are protected as a migratory bird but some Anglers and fish Farmers say there are too many of them the forecast for Minnesota today calls for partly cloudy skies highs today ranging from 48 in the north east to near 60 in the southwest tonight. It'll be partly cloudy in the west. Mostly clear with areas of frost Frost possible in the East lows from 22 to 32 degrees right now in the Twin Cities report of partly cloudy skies a temperature of 46 from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Greta Cunningham. (00:01:55) And good afternoon. Welcome back to midday on Minnesota (00:01:58) Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten political editor Mike Mulcahy is (00:02:01) here. And today we are broadcasting (00:02:03) live from the Rotunda the state capitol in st. Paul. This is the final weekend of the 2004 legislative session a session that began back in February with high hopes of balancing the state budget passing a Capital Improvements Bill increasing penalties for violent sex offenders, perhaps adding a constitutional amendment Amendment or two to the November election ballot, maybe approving construction of a new (00:02:26) stadium for the Twins and or the Vikings. (00:02:29) Well that was in February instead here. We are with Monday's of German (00:02:33) deadline looming and not a whole lot has been accomplished. (00:02:38) We're here at the Capitol today to talk with some key legislators about what has (00:02:43) happened and hasn't happened and why (00:02:46) but Mike I suppose first of all, we should emphasize that Some work has been finished. Well Gary, that's right. Both houses have passed that mourning dove hunting bill and it's on the on the governor's desk. Will he sign it though? Well, I don't know. He said to you the other day that he his daughters were lobbying him against he was he was going to sign it and but who knows maybe his fishing trip will give him some advice on that but it's not fair to say that nothing's been done. I mean both houses passed their versions of their bills their budget bills and their tax bills and they're there by the bonding Bill did not pass the Senate but it did pass the house and it's just been since then that things have stopped and I guess that's what we're going to talk about with our next (00:03:29) guest. Absolutely Senate Majority Leader Dean Johnson has joined us enter. Thanks for stopping by Gary and Mike and to your staff as we come (00:03:38) to the close of the legislative session. I want to thank you and your Capital correspondence here Laura McCullum, and the folks who have been very kind to us this legislative session reporting. Public the goings-on if you will and I would offer that you folks have been very fair in your reporting and we appreciate that. Thank you. We try now to yesterday the governor came up with a what he said was a budget balancing plan. The House (00:04:05) Republicans said go (00:04:08) Governor we sign right (00:04:09) on you folks said no, wait a minute. And why is (00:04:12) that? Well, we said wait a minute because there's 80 million dollars from the health care access fund which let me describe it this way. If you are recipient of that for your insurance, if you're dealing with cancer or heart condition diabetes and all of a sudden this budget cut comes you're hurting people who otherwise would not have health insurance. And so we put faces on these budget documents and it's very hurtful to literally hundreds and thousands of minnesotans. That won't (00:04:43) be though for a few years at any any real impact would come from those cuts. Would (00:04:48) it absolutely Anytime it comes that you're hurting the most vulnerable people. I think it's not good public policy. Second of all the issue that perhaps it's too much inside the capitol here, but not enough perhaps understood by the general public is if you recall about 30 years ago an issue that came to the Forefront was called openness in government. There were too many sweetheart deals being made in back rooms here in the state capital with the governor and legislative leaders, and we're finding more and more is I'm dealing with the governor and with the speaker and others they want to go behind closed doors and cut some kind of deal and from day one. We have asked that the budget bills be talked about and negotiated in the public and Conference committees. And we feel that it's very important to do that. Now the governor and the speaker would say well time is short. We can't do that. But we have been asking for that for three weeks four weeks and now the governor yesterday. Levi press conference decided how he was going to balance balance the budget. If we were to accept the governor's proposal. There is no longer the public discussion about people who set up sham corporations offshore and do not pay their fair share of Minnesota's income tax. We think that's wrong. Why should Corporation ABC do business and not pay their fair share into the into the revenue stream. We also are concerned about 38 to 40 highly political paid people in the various agencies. If we do this in the back room, it will fall off the table. We do accept the governor's tax increases on car leases and on on Tobacco and cigarettes, but let us do it in the normal process and that is passed the bills. Send them to conference committee and and we will negotiate so that seems to be kind of the the the issue now. We have been and perhaps I'm taking words out of your mouth and some of the press reports Senate Democrats have been obstructionist. We have set up the roadblock. We provided for the Press yesterday. And this is public information all of the bills that we have passed dealing with the budget. But the bonding bill with crime prevention with Healthcare Cost Containment. Most of the dates you would see on here are fairly early in April mid April timeframe. (00:07:20) And here we are (00:07:21) and the middle of May if you will and many none of the conference committees for the most part have have been named to the point of being obstructionist in the bonding Bill the bonding Bill requires 60 percent of the vote of the house and the Senate the house passed the bill in the Senate. We need forty one votes. We received 39. We need a two more Publican votes and when I read and hear that somehow we are obstructionist. We delivered 100 percent of Senate democrats for the bonding Bill. (00:07:56) Are you going to scale the size of that bill back a little bit so you can get the extra Republican votes so that the bonding bill at least can get into a conference committee (00:08:05) one of our goals and objectives today in our caucus and I believe you had Senator langseth on as a guest is to look at the possibility of scaling it back and to see if we can't pick up some votes to what magnitude I do not know but we do need Republican votes and for anyone the governor or Senator day to say we're obstructionists in the bonding Bill simply is not true. We have wanted a bonding bill that fixes Minnesota's infrastructure and our colleges and Universities at the University environmental projects across the state some local projects. And worry we passed at once are tempted to But we were two votes (00:08:47) short. If you can't work out an agreement, excuse me with a house in the governor over budget balancing bill. Would you prefer that the governor call a special session to take another run at this (00:08:58) or go ahead and on a lot. (00:09:00) These are cut the spending himself. (00:09:06) I'm the kind of legislator who believes that as long as we are in session we should roll up our sleeves and continue to work morning noon and night to do as much of the Public's business as we possibly can to work in our respectful and dignified way with the governor and the Speaker of the House committee chairs and try and come to some kind of solution and we're going to continue to do that. We're in session today will probably in session tonight and tomorrow and that's kind of like Never say die because we're here and we're going to continue to move (00:09:39) ahead Sunday. Would you meet on Sunday? If necessary, (00:09:42) there is one agreement we have had with the governor and with the speaker in myself and that is a legislative day ends at 7:00 659 if you will a.m. In the morning and we have agreed that starting at seven o'clock Sunday am that we're not going to be here in the state capital. Maybe it's happened in the state's history. I don't know but my 26 years we've been here. I think that really is a day for folks to have opportunities for worship and time with family and then we'd come back on Monday and finish up the work that is before (00:10:15) us need to ask one other question of you Senator before we let you go and that it has to do with the confirmations Senate confirmations of Education commissioner, yucky and transportation commissioner lieutenant. Governor mold. Now if you bring them up for a vote and the Senate confirms them, of course, they stay in their position. If you (00:10:39) bring them up for a vote (00:10:40) and you reject their nominations, they have to leave office. If you don't bring them up at all. They just stay where they are. What are you going to do? And worst of all early on in the (00:10:51) session we spoke with the governor and as Chief of Staff about the process. We followed up with a letter and said that before the legislative session ended we would bring up the gubernatorial appointees and we I think there's like five sheets. Some of names and it's yet to be determined whether it be yet today or tomorrow or Monday, but we will bring each of the Commissioners and appointees up for a vote and I will stress that each individual Senator. We have not caucused about it, and we've not asked anyone to vote for or against they should vote their conscience and their District what they believe is in the best interest of the state of Minnesota, and we're going to hold firm to that, but our commitment is to bring up for floor votes the goop Governor pawlenty's Commissioners. (00:11:41) Thank you Senator. Appreciate it. Very good. Thank you very (00:11:43) much. Thanks for being with US Senate Majority (00:11:45) Leader Dean Johnson joining us at our broadcast table if you just tuned in, I'm Gary eichten political editor Mike Mulcahy is here. We're broadcasting live today from the (00:11:53) Rotunda of the Minnesota state capitol on this as we head into the final weekend of the (00:11:57) 2004 legislative session joining us now is Dan McIlroy who is governor pawlenty's Chief of Staff McIlroy. Thanks. Coming by my pleasure Gary. Thanks for doing this. It's nice to see MPR come to the capital. Well, it's always it's always interesting. Each year is just a little bit different than previous years and this one is different indeed. (00:12:19) So what about (00:12:20) this budget deal are you can you meet the (00:12:24) Senate halfway on (00:12:25) its request for public hearings on the governor's proposal reconsider the possibility of making some corporate tax changes or first of all, the Senate has voted on and passed all the items in that 63 million dollar portion. So the public hearings have been held the desire to hold yet another round of hearings. I think is redundant. Now the one the issue of the foreign operating credits and foreign royalty deductions and what's called the clawback provision certainly could wait until next session or they can be done in a tax conference committee. They are somewhat Separate from the budget discussion. I do agree with one thing Senator Johnson said and that is that we should all keep our sleeves rolled up today and tomorrow and tomorrow night and try to come to a conclusion and that there's still time to do that but our people so dug in On each side of the barricade here that while there's time to do it as a practical matter. Nothing will actually get done. I hope not we think that there is particularly on the kind of phase 1 which would be to do the hundred and sixty million dollar budget reduction and will do 97 a million of that on the governor's Authority and need the cooperation of the House and Senate to do it 63 million dollars that was laid out in these changes of when the least tax is collected change it when the cigarette taxes collected some enforcement additional enforcement of or collection of non filers of the income tax change on collection of sales tax by state vendors, those have all passed both the house and the senate in separate bills. They would need to be repast in a budget reconciliation or in some sort of Bill then if the Senate wanted to go on there are the Senate and the house together, too. Agree to some other revenue and they may include for an operating companies that takes passing a bill that gets to conference committee. The governor's office is interested in the substance. We are not as involved in the process of how the House and Senate get to (00:14:39) conference. Well what happened to this process, I mean, we've heard the Senate dfl say over and over again. All they wanted was a conference committee and the house hasn't hasn't moved on that and why not? I mean shouldn't there be a conference (00:14:51) committee there certainly should be conference committees. We think they should have let me rephrase that the house has opined towards their position that they should be done the way they have been done for within the memory of people here and that is by subject area rather than the single budget reconciliation bill, but I hope you've had an opportunity to ask the speaker or the house as to their reviews. The governor's office hasn't had an objection to how they want to Country the bills. We have some fairly strong opinions on Some of the subject matter involved. Are you putting the arm on Senator day who is the head of the Republicans in the state senate insofar as the bonding bill goes saying to the senator look give the Democrats a few more votes get the bonding bill passed in whatever form it is that can then go off to a conference committee and and we can get this all scaled back and worked out. We talked to Senator day as we do to to others to all the leaders and I think Senator days feeling is that for the bonding Bill to move forward. We should have an agreement on the budget what the governor has said is that he will not sign a bonding Bill and less we have a budget agreement. He has said we need to eat our vegetables before we do dessert and I think the bonding bill is extremely important. It's not as important as the budget does budget agreement. Does that include the governor? Just making a Balancing the budget on his own know if the but if the governor has to balance the budget on his own it's unlikely we would be in a position that we would issue debt for example, and our tools are quite limited. It will be very difficult if we have to do it on our own but if we're unable to reach agreement in the legislature will have to do that best estimate and McIlroy has to you know for folks who don't want to spend their weekend hanging on each newscast to find out what's going on up here. (00:16:57) What what's going to happen Monday morning? Well, we'll all of these issues have been resolved as they generally get resolved or will we be about where we are today come Monday (00:17:08) morning? You were you were in the legislature for quite a long while and now you're sitting in the governor's office and you see it from that perspective, but you see this actually playing out. I think there's an excellent chance that by Monday morning. We will have found a resolution. That's not a hundred percent. My friend Senator Cohen is here if we were betting man, I think the odds are over 50 50, but I can't tell you exactly what the will happen. I'm wondering about how many minnesotans will be waiting by the radio with bated breath to see how we proceed. I know five hundred thousand minnesotans are out fishing this weekend and arm though for the governor to be out fishing this weekend Governor's available. Whenever I need him we have cell phone coverage. We've arranged for a video conference facility. If we need him the governor's fishing opener is a many decade tradition. I'm told he's he's available if we need it. Well, thanks so much for joining us. My pleasure. Thanks for coming here and doing this. Good luck. That's always interesting. And McIlroy who is governor. Tim pawlenty's chief of staff. And also, of course longtime former house legislator (00:18:19) as well joining us now at our broadcast table is another key state Senator Dick Cohen. He is the chair (00:18:27) of the Senate's Finance Senate finance committee to our: thanks for coming by thanks for having me Gary what again you've been around here a long time as well. How do you assess what's happened? And what hasn't happened? What's your reading on why the stalemate for so long? (00:18:48) Well, what we have been attempting to do in the Senate is to try to get the house to agree with a process that has taken place for decades. That's a public process to appoint conflict conference committees to debate in public some of the issues that we think are important and I think it's unfortunate that the governor's statement yesterday reduces us to a new level and that is now we're governing by press release we've gone from open conference committee process to doing everything in private rooms, and now we're doing a press release and so I think it's difficult for us to move forward on issues that we think important unless we have a full discussion (00:19:28) part of History also includes all those private private discussions, especially among the leadership. Are you folks just adamantly against that approach (00:19:37) Gary there's a middle ground when I first became a finance chairman in 1993. I had a conference committee where I was the junior member I had the chair of the finance committee Gian Maria my bill Luther I Dennis Frederickson. 80% of that work was done in public. There was no private work done until we basically had a green on almost everything. This is a total reversal. We do everything in private and then we have a public process. That's a sham process to Simply ratify what's happened. This is a total reversal of what's happened for at least 30 years in this place from go ahead. What about the argument from the governor's office that the Senate has already voted on many of these mechanisms to balance the budget and and pass them if the governor would like to have a fuller discussion on issues that we think are very important. That would be the corporate tax loopholes something that has a huge support in this state in this country coupled with a discussion of Fuller discussion of the nature of his political appointees and why we should leave that class unprotected. We'd be happy to meet the governor halfway is this is some of this just from the way things shook out last year and and how you know, it was my way or the highway you guys kept saying with the governor and and he got basically Everything he wanted like I don't think so at all. This attempt is to try to deal with with issues. We think are important the session this year is separate from the session last year. We're attempting to address the budget in a way think the way that we think would be more Equitable for the state of Minnesota. What the governor is doing (00:21:07) Governor said the other day that you folks have no positive agenda. He (00:21:12) doesn't for the life of you can't for the life of me figure out what (00:21:14) it is that you stand for except for things you (00:21:18) oppose Gary. I'm so glad you brought that up and I wish we were on televisions because I have a list and I think members the Press of seen this that talks about all the press conferences. We've had over the last number of months going back to November when bills passed off the floor involving the deficit jobs economy education crime prevention health care and listeners can't see it. But there is a list of approximately 16 to 20 major items that we had press conferences on government even have a press conference. And the dates of the press conference and the dates when we passed these issues off the floor of the Senate and it encompasses all of the issues that I think are important people in (00:21:56) Minnesota. What happened Senator. We were told that once we got got past try partisan government got back to the old way of Democrats and Republicans. Oh, there'd be the battles over principled items in the some sniping, but the process itself would be much smoother. (00:22:15) I'd been optimistic of that and and I'm disappointed that that that is not the case. But when you decide to do everything in private as an unfortunate was done last year, when you continue to try to do everything in private, then the process stops. We have not had the opportunity to do what normally is done to have a fuller discussion these issues and to attempt to present the scent with a fait accompli on areas that we think the public disagrees with we don't think the public agrees with the continuing slashing of healthcare as the governor suggested yesterday. The governor might have the ability to do that on a unilateral basis. We don't think the public agrees. We do think the public agrees that we ought to take a look at corporations that have been got getting by with very significant tax loopholes and as your caucus United enough and feel strongly about this to go home without a bonding bill without the rest of the the issues resolved, you know, I listen to the last couple of minutes of damn McIlroy and I agree with that. I think if there's a - to compromise a willingness to sit down at a public table and when appropriate at a much smaller level at a private table. There's the ability to affect compromise and to do something by the end of the session on Monday and an indicated that he would bit more than 50 50. I guess. I'm a little bit more on the 4060 side of it. But I think there still is the ability and willingness to do that. We've been saying that for a month with the house and the governor, that's what a lot of this Log Jam is we've been saying for a month. Let's sit down and take care of this want to go ahead I was going to say if they were agree if they would agree to take a look at these corporate loopholes. Would that start things going would that be enough for or do you have to have that public process as a part of that? I want to be a little bit careful because I'm the finance chairman right attacks chairman, but I do think that's a very important issue with the Democratic caucus in the Senate and I think what we ought to do is to and it's not too late our to appoint conference committees have a discussion of these issues and we'll see what can be done or cannot be done would we hang up the issue for the failure of that? I can't speak to that but I do think at the very least if we have the discussion and have a fuller exposition of these issues along with the very important issue of the finance side of it of looking at something on classified positions that we have basically left untouched through all the budget cuts. I think we'd be a long ways toward trying to close the (00:24:48) session. Let me shift gears just a tad here. There has been a lot of interest in this natural resources Amendment which would set aside a small portion a fraction of the sales tax for for natural resources projects and So at least in Senate version Arts projects as well. Is that going to survive when all is said and done or where does that stand? (00:25:14) I can't speak for what happens obviously with the house I expect I don't know for sure for a certainty. I expect Senator Sam's bill will pass out of the rules committee this afternoon and and quite likely will pass off the senate floor. (00:25:27) So you think it might end up on the ballot or is that again one of those? Well, maybe maybe not. (00:25:32) Well I said it would pass the senate floor. I hesitate to take the responsibility for what happens on the other side of the building. (00:25:40) Thanks Senator. Let's talk. Thank you, honey. And the other side of the building here representative Jim knobloch from st. Cloud who is chair of the house Ways and Means Committee. Thanks for joining us represent of now, but to be here while we while we're on that subject. Have you heard anything about that natural resources Amendment and whether or not that's going to ultimately get past and end up on the ballot this fall. Well, I think you know, the Senate has a little bit different view of this in the house. I mean the Senate bill at least First I heard it has expanded to be more than natural resources. It's got Arts. It's got culture in it. There are others that want to add additional constitutional provisions on it. I've heard there may be some additional amendments on it when it gets to the senate floor on the house. The bill we have has a kind of gotten back to the basics of the 1/8 percent just strictly for natural resources. And I expect that if the senate in particular passes that bill that will have a vote on the house floor on it. I guess I can't predict myself how that will go. I think that the house though would be more likely to want the basic house natural resource provision rather than a bunch of other things that the Senate is added. Do you see a way around or past or over this stalemate that's developed on the budget bill, which seems to be (00:26:52) a roadblock to (00:26:53) doing pretty much anything else. Well, you know, I guess I was very disappointed yesterday when the governor and the house made an offer that I really could hardly believe the Senate refused. I mean we Hundred sixty million dollar deficit we put together an offer in the house that basically took items that were exactly the same in agreement between House and Senate bills or very similar and made that as our offer to settle the budget deficit and they refused and I guess from our standpoint. If the Senate is not willing to accept an offer that includes things that they have already passed and is basically only inclusive of things that they have either passed that are identical to the house or very similar. They're simply not interested in negotiating they say though that that's that 80 million that supposed to come out of the healthcare find a way too much money would hurt the poor. Well, they had 50 million dollars in their original plan. That was to come out of it. Then I guess what I would say is if that is their big objection fine. Let's see a counteroffer from them. Let's see them bring something back. We haven't seen anything from that yet either and they shut down early again last night. They don't really seem to be that interested in coming together to a deal and of course we have the issue with the bonding Bill, too. You know in the house, we have passed the bonding bill and the Senate we had the unusual situation where they're bonding committee. Only met once this year. I mean three months went by they had one meeting the first last and only meeting sometime in early May there was no public testimony. They brought a bill to the floor and the bill was voted down. Well, you know, that would hardly be a surprise when there's no public testimony and really no inclusion of the minority in the Senate as to what's going to be in the bill. And so from our standpoint on the bonding bill, you know, we've done our job in the house. We've passed our bill the Senate needs to get their job done and figure out how they can pass a bill tough to go to voters this fall though without some kind of money for you know, fixing roofs and and building buildings and so on, isn't it? Well, you know, we would certainly like to be able to pass a bonding bill. I think it's important. I think balancing the budget is important. I think dealing with the sexual predator laws ours is important. A lot of these things were doing are very important and I guess My fear based on what I've seen from the Senate is that they just are looking for political Advantage here. You know, I know that Senate Majority Leader Dean Johnson said the other day to the press that there was really nothing they needed to have this session for their caucus, you know, they're not up for election this fall. Well, you know, there may not be anything they need for their caucus, but the people of Minnesota needs some things and I wish that they would go ahead and become a little bit more proactive in negotiating and working with us to try to get a deal done. (00:29:34) You know, I an issue we've managed to take up all the time with and not even mention up until now is that Stadium Bill and it failed on the tie vote in your committee the other day, is there any hope for that given everything else? That's still unresolved any any prospect that might spring back to (00:29:54) life. Well, that's not really going to come back or at least have any hope of coming back until there's some agreement on these other things. I think the public expects us to get our work done with the budget. Office it first before we deal with stadiums and of course the stadium bills a very controversial bill. I have voted for some stadium plans in the past. I voted against this particular one. I did not like this particular Stadium plan, but it's not going to move forward unless we get something done with the budget. So if if there's any movement on that it would be (00:30:24) sometime early Sunday morning. (00:30:27) So it's hard to predict what's going to go on here, you know, we you know, we need to see some movement on from the Senate that we've made a very good offer to basically agree with them on the things they've already passed to settle the budget deficit. They're apparently not willing to do that. We haven't seen a counteroffer back from them. I guess unless they are willing to quickly make some changes in the way. They're negotiating. I don't expect we're going to have anything done on a stadium this session what happens if we go to a special session, you know, you never know, but certainly I'm not expecting anything on the stadium in the last couple days if the governor asks for your advice, Failing a an agreement here on the budget and so on the governor asked for your advice. What are you going to tell him in terms of call a special session or just balance the budget by cutting on his own and be done with it. Well, I wouldn't call a special session if I were the governor unless there was some agreement between the house and the Senate we've already sent the Senate an offer which is something that is composed of items that we already have agreed with and passed both the house and the Senate if they're not willing to agree with that if they're not willing to give us a counteroffer. It just appears to me that they're not interested in negotiating and then there's no sense in calling a special session we can get together and talk without a special session if we can come to an arrangement then he can call one but I wouldn't call one if I were him until there was a deal go (00:31:46) ahead and if there's not a deal are you willing to go out and members of your caucus run for re-election and say you know, it was the Senate's fault or how does that all play out? (00:31:57) Politically? Well, you know I are we willing to we really don't have a choice. I mean if the Senate's not willing to make a deal we're Going to shut down I if they're not willing to make any sort of counter offer present a plan to us, which they have not done. I mean they have not given us a plan all they say is we want to negotiate but they've never given us a plan saying here's our proposal to balance the budget if they're not willing to do that. We will have no choice the session will shut down we're up for election. This fall and will have to run and do the best job we can to explain it what happened to our constituents one other question for you represented knobloch. There are a lot of smaller items that are very important to certain people that everybody seems to agree on they just kind of got bogged down in the big the big mix I'm thinking for example of some special benefits of new benefits for National Guard members. For example, is there any feeling among legislators House and Senate about well, you know, if this really does become impossible to resolve what we're going to do is take out some of those provisions and everybody agrees. It become law and we'll just deal with those separately or are they going to go down too? Well, we would certainly like to do that. But that's kind of what we try to do yesterday. Again, we made an offer to the Senate that we said. Look there are 44 million dollars of items that are absolutely identical between the House and Senate at both the House and Senate have passed there are many many other items totaling up to a hundred sixty million dollars that are almost exactly the same or very similar. Let's do this and they weren't willing to do that. And so if they're not willing to do that, I'm not sure that they're willing to agree on items other items that we've also passed that are identical. I think, you know, I'd like to do the National Guard tuition things I voted for that but the public also expects us to balance the budget instead of making the budget deficit worse. And so I think we need to do both those things. Well, good luck. Well, thank you very much and we will certainly do our very best to continue to work and we are hopeful the Senate will make a response to the offer that we've made sometime soon. Sedative Jim knobloch from st. Paul St. Cloud rather who is the chair of the house Ways and Means Committee joining us at our broadcast table. If you tuned in late, (00:34:13) we're broadcasting midday live (00:34:15) today from the Rotunda of the Minnesota state capitol as a legislature moves into the final weekend of the 2004 legislative session state constitution says that the legislature must adjourn by Monday at the latest the Constitution also forbids any legislative action to store any the passing of any bills on Monday. So as a practical matter Sunday is the last day that the legislature can pass any bills and as a practical matter Mike Mulcahy legislative leadership said, they're not going to meet on (00:34:48) Sunday. So that (00:34:49) means Saturday tomorrow is the last day (00:34:52) tomorrow, but you know tomorrow lasts a long time go all the way till 7 o'clock Sunday morning. But yeah, it's I don't know Gary. We're seeing a little bit of movement. B-but nothing you could really say that it looks like this thing is on track. It's what Friday now little afternoon. I don't know. It's going to be tough. I think to get this done. But then again think what they have to do resolve that hundred and sixty million dollar which is now a 63 million dollar (00:35:23) problem depending on (00:35:25) if the governor sticks by that transfer of the 80 million dollars from the healthcare fund bonding bill. They I think they all we've heard they all want to get that done after that maybe a couple of the little things that you mentioned, you know, the National Guard tuition help maybe the science standards. What else do they really need to do? Certainly? Not a stadium? I don't think I don't think there's a great public outcry in favor of that right now. So, you know, maybe it could come together. There's still time (00:35:57) Laura McCollum. Our Capital bureau chief has joined us now at the table and of course Laura has been out and about and she comes with us. It comes delivers the secret plan. She's a she's uncovered the she's found the key that will unlock the I'm afraid that's not true. It's not true. (00:36:14) But you know, I did talk to you know, Senate Democrats caucus this morning and you know, obviously where I think mulling over this offer again, and I don't sense any more interest from them than I did last night just that they seem pretty resolved pretty United pretty sure that they're on the right track here in terms of the things they're talking about it. You've heard them talk about, you know, they want a public process. They want an open process. They don't like this this deal that the governor and House Republicans came up with so hard. That's a trait when the speaker makes faces at you, you know, I did want to mention there was one issue that I don't think we've brought up yet. This hour that they pretty much should do this session and that's the state worker contracts. You may recall that you know, they were negotiated in a difficult negotiation last year and they do need legislative support or their null and void. Now the Senate passed those contracts a day or so ago, the days are starting to the blur together. The house was was debating them and then they took up they started debating a Karen Clark amendment that would allow bereavement leave for your partner and the house tabled the bill now Bill Haas says, he does want to get that passed presumably today, but that's something they really do have on their priority list and want to get to the governor. So that state employees have their (00:37:31) contracts now. The legislator or seem pretty well dug into their positions here, but over and above their principled positions is are also (00:37:45) personal animosity here is everybody, you know, pretty pretty mellow mild getting (00:37:50) along pretty. Well. What's your sense of that? (00:37:53) I see a couple different animosity Dynamics. I think they're you and you sense this among Senate Democrats. There's a lot of resentment of the governor. I think of his policies of his agenda, you know, I don't know if it's the governor personally. I think Governor pawlenty he gets along with people because he was a legislator. I mean people generally like him, but they don't like his agenda and that kind of spills over into some of the things that Senate Democrats talk about in terms of you know, we cave last year and his agenda is taking us down the wrong path and we don't like that and there is a little tension between speakers Wiggum and Senate Majority Leader Johnson, you know, they both used to be Republicans speakers Wiggum still is Senator Johnson is not some Republicans were a Little irked when he was selected as Majority Leader this year and thought okay now we're going to see some confrontation. And so you see that playing out a little bit in some of the conversations. They may not have the best Rapport and when you see Republicans saying boy Roger Mo now, he was a closer and they kind of harken back to the Roger bow area, you know that they're not too fond of Dean Johnson these days (00:38:58) waiting Seminole has joined us at the table again, for those of you who missed last hour. We should by way of introduction point out that Wayne simoneau served in the Minnesota Legislature in the house as a dfl are from 1974 to 95. He served as state finance commissioner and state employee relations commissioner under both the Republican Governor Arne Carlson and Independence Party Governor, Jesse Ventura and Wayne Seminole was the state's Chief labor negotiator for a while used to cutting deals widely respected up here at the state capitol. Mr. Simmons has been good enough to come by and listen in and share some thoughts. Now you were at the end of the first hour of midday today. You were pretty optimistic because there wasn't name-calling and you thought well, everything will be okay still confident. Well, there (00:39:50) wasn't a lot of name-calling this past hour, you know the kind of went to the edge but nothing nothing is personal is what I have heard in the (00:39:59) past and what I've actually what (00:40:01) we've seen in Red. So that's always a good sign. I also was impressed with Dan McElroy. He kind of gave a significant Edge to the issue of this tax on corporations that do business outside of Minnesota. I think he said something like this it could be passed this year or at some point in the future. I don't know exactly what that how wide the door is open, but he did mention that that could happen and he understood the reasons behind it. I like to hear that because he's listening. He's got to be listening to the On the 80 million (00:40:35) that came up what the apis every time this morning that someone was there. (00:40:40) They also mentioned while the Senate once passed (00:40:43) 50 million. Similarly. (00:40:45) Let me comment on that for a minute a lot of the stuff (00:40:47) the Senate has passed and remember I haven't read all those bills but some of their items that have been discussed (00:40:55) have passed in the context of achieving another goal that wasn't to balance a budget and if (00:41:01) you keep scoop those out of other bills and say well now you got a budget Balancing Act Senate's going to say wait a minute. What about my five or six other issues that those were founded put yourself. If you would in the possession of the key Republicans here now, they the governor as a republican they have a huge majority in the Minnesota house. They're close to parity in the state. Senate. What are they thinking do they really look at? Senate Democrats and say you people are obstructionist. We need to get on with the the state's business and we know what the state's agenda should be is get they get kind of irritated by that. Well, they have said that and they haven't gotten anywhere saying that I think it's time to make the rounds. I think it's time to go visit (00:41:53) with all sorts of people in the (00:41:55) dfl side and have staff talked to staff have the governor's staff talked to the Democratic senators make the rounds and see what you could find out. Don't do it through press releases on the other hand. Would it be fair to say that when all is said and done what the Democrats really want to do is figure out a way to back the governor into a position where he has to raise state taxes something that he has pledged and vowed never to do. (00:42:23) There's a little bit of an (00:42:24) edge coming out on this already. Remember the tax proposal that was found in the (00:42:29) stadium. (00:42:31) Bills no matter how you cut it. That's a tax increase of whether you say, well people are going to spend more money. It's still a tax increase in its general fund money. I would add so (00:42:41) and then McElroy said today, they could understand some of the arguments that were presented and he kept the door open on (00:42:47) that. I like to hear that if (00:42:49) they can squeeze a few of those out without having to grossly embarrass the (00:42:54) governor on this issue it will work. But do they want to grossly embarrass the governor? That's a question. I hope not. I hope that they want to get this session done and (00:43:07) I wanted to mention something else in 1981. Remember we ran a regular session coterminous with a (00:43:13) special session elk. We called a special session in Lake had two of them going at the same time. Oh, (00:43:19) yeah 8081. I'm sure it (00:43:21) was a special session was called in November to do a fix and then the regular (00:43:25) session when we all were sworn in sat down and (00:43:28) we were doing business in the Session and often the rooms was a special session going on. (00:43:34) So, you know, there's all sorts of you have two halves. Did you get to per diem checks? I was given. I was given one task and I did get exactly everything done. It was a 63 million (00:43:47) dollar tasks that the Gnostic and I had a few others worked on (00:43:52) and we well we did it was part of the solution, but no, I only wore one had at that particular time, but my point is that different things can (00:44:01) happen. He get agreement over here. Something else is going to happen or could happen over there Wayne Seminole former Minnesota House member a dfl ER served under both Republican Governor Arne Carlson and Independence Party Governor Jesse Ventura, we're broadcasting live from the state capitol and joining us now with our broadcast table is dfl state senator, Steve Kelly who's the chair of the education committee Senator. Thanks for coming by. Good afternoon Gary first on education. We were talking to (00:44:30) Representative sea Grant earlier and (00:44:32) she was kind of confident that that you folks could work out the policy issues before your committee. (00:44:40) If some of these other things could be taken care of and you folks could get (00:44:44) the thumbs-up. Is that true? I do think that we are waiting for a conclusion on some of the other bigger budget things some of the the bonding bills certainly still in play and and I don't think we'll be able to address all the different policy issues that are in both bills, but I'm hopeful that if we get some of those other things done we could reach agreement on the science and social studies standards and maybe a few of the other policy things. I just don't think we have time to cover the range of issues that are in both bills terms of the social studies standards, which have gotten so much attention. If you can actually get it a get the field clear to work out an agreement. Are they going to look more like the the standards that were developed by the education? Mission or are they going to look more like the standards that were developed by your panel? Well, my Approach all along has been to get to a set of standards that have broad support among both parents and teachers and school districts. And in my personal view is that the standards produced by the supported by the council for social studies were closer to that kind of broad support. But you know in a going into a compromise you don't try to push, you know, try to prejudge the result one way or the other if you're going to reach compromise. So those are the criteria the senator is going to use broad support good for our kids and and I expect that will if we're going to reach an agreement on social studies standards. That's what they'll look like Majority Leader Dean Johnson said earlier that a vote will be taken a confirmation vote will be taken on the floor of the state senate on weather. To confirm education commissioner. Yakky. How is that vote going to turn out? I don't know Gary it because as we've said all along it's there's not a caucus position with that with respect to that confirmation vote and it's up to some members and I heard the sage advice from a former commissioner a seminar that everything is connected to everything else. So I think some members are holding oft other going to vote on that until they see what happens to some other issues going to say if people get particularly irritated with the governor for example might they take that out on the education commissioner or if all of a sudden sweetness and light should develop and and you walked hand in hand with the governor that she would sail through is that is that kind of what you're saying here? Well, I don't know that she'd sail through I think we have a lot of members that would like to vote against her sort of no matter what the question. Action is for the that group at the margin. Where would they end up and we try to be logical and rational about how we approach this and I think there are rational reasons that the that the education committee laid out for not confirming her but it is a place where just like in other endeavors human beings act on their emotions sometimes and the things you pointed out might come into play Budget on the budget issue. If you can't reach an agreement with a governor presumably he would just go ahead and cut the budget on his own. Are you concerned that the constituents that you that the Democrats are always expressing concern about social service programs that are going to really take a hit if he cuts the budget on himself. The concern that I have is though the governor's latest proposal that picked up some things that were in both bills. He really zeroed in on Healthcare and at least this isn't my area of expertise. But what I hear from the my caucus members is that the governor has shown too great a pension to look to cutting Health Care in order to balance the budget and so our caucus has serious concerns about dipping into that pool of money that supposed to be for ensuring access to healthcare for minnesotans. So I if he's continuing to do that that's a message and a result that we're going to continue to fight against not a lot of time left, but we now have the to (00:49:02) Ballpark (00:49:03) legislators here representative Doug staying from Cold Spring has joined us. He is the chair of the house higher education finance committee, but the the prime sponsor of the stadium bill in the house Senator Kelly has been Your Prime sponsor in the senate representative staying. Let me ask you first of all are the hang up here was in the house Ways and Means Committee where the bill stalled in a tie vote. Are you going to bring that back for another vote? I believe we have the votes to bring it back by with the timeline that were under now with only three days left of regular session actually having to get this passed by Sunday. I don't believe we'll have the time to get it through the necessary committees to get it done during this regular session. If there's a special session, there's always a possibility we could bring it back up then but I don't think the likelihood of it happening in the regular session is very good just because the timeline would not work and Senator Kelly and the Senate you're kind of waiting for the house to do its business first. Is that the plan that's been the approach the governor has taken a leadership position on this and and and I have a lot of sympathy for for Doug all the work Doug has done on this he had to spend four or more days in the house tax committee trying to To move this bill through but the Senate's view was that that given the governor's support and that and the margin in the house that they ought to be able to get a bill out of the house. If anything was going to happen this session and and through no fault of Doug's efforts and lot of hard work. It just didn't come together because we also have said all the way along that there are higher priorities the budget fix and the other kinds of things that we've been working on this session have to come first and since that engine didn't move. It makes it much harder to move us Stadium Bill and very briefly representative staying if there is a special session. Would you want that Stadium bill on the agenda for a special session or is it it's just not important enough to get in the way of other items. Why don't want it to get in the way of other items, but I think there's a special session and there's agreement on the budget. There's agreement on on some of the more important priority items that I would Not be opposed and I think it might be a good idea to bring up the stadium and try to resolve this. We're at a point where we could do it with low interest rates every year that we wait now to resolve this is just going to become more and more expensive. So the issue is not going to go away. Hopefully we can resolve some of these other issues and we can move to some resolution of the stadium as well. I agree with Doug to the the other thing people aren't paying attention to is that steel prices are going up pretty rapidly. This is this year would be a good year to do it. Thank you gentlemen, state representative Doug staying from Cold Spring and state senator, Steve Kelley from Hopkins joining us quick. Comment Wayne Seminole before we put a bow on today's broadcast still still optimistic. I assume that everything will be hunky-dory. (00:52:01) Well, I could see the seeds of Anna greedy in compromise here. (00:52:06) They got a call you in and negotiate this now (00:52:08) my day is done what when I leave here. I'm all done for the (00:52:13) first session. Are they getting good leadership out of Senator Johnson? And speaker swipe (00:52:19) remember that they have to (00:52:20) respond to their caucuses and I (00:52:22) think both of them are reflecting what their (00:52:24) caucuses are thinking and in that sense. Yes, but doesn't the leader at some point have to grab his caucus members by the Scruff of the neck and take them to where he wants them to go (00:52:36) that's always helpful (00:52:38) and certain caucus leaders have been deposed because of that when they try to muscle up, I think yes. Yep, all of a sudden they're not there anymore or when they let the clock is down. Uh-huh. And the governor. How's he doing? (00:52:56) I think all right at this (00:52:57) point, I would prefer to have him here at this point in the session. If I were in the (00:53:02) legislature what you know, he's lob something out. I think the Senate is accurately stated that what they're waiting for is a bill to come back. Remember both bodies are operating under (00:53:12) Mason's manual. You can't do anything unless you have something to work on. (00:53:16) Get that bill over from the (00:53:18) house amended send it back and say okay now it's time for conference committee. And do you think the public really gives a hoot now? This is an Insider's game completely where 870 great to have you join us. Thank you very much. Thank you (00:53:31) former state representative former Finance commissioner employee relations commissioner (00:53:36) Wayne Seminole joining us here at our broadcast table at the Rotunda of the state capitol. Well, we have reached middays constitutionally mandated time to adjourn but we'll have more on the legislature, of course later this afternoon over the weekend and Monday as well. And also we invite you to check out our website Minnesota Public Radio dot org for more legislative information. Sarah Mayer is the producer of our program Christina Shockley as our assistant producer our Engineers today were Clifford Bentley Denny Hanson and Randy Johnson. Our transportation secretary was Kate Smith. Also thanks to Laura McCallum and Rick ABS in ski for their help (00:54:14) with the political editor Mike. Hey, I'm Gary (00:54:17) eichten good afternoon from the Minnesota state capitol in st. Paul (00:54:21) programming is supported by Theatre de la Jeune Lune where the Golem is now playing based on Jewish Legend. The Golem is a creature made of clay who was brought to life through magical powers and extraordinary mix of images mysticism and music more information at Jeune Lune dot-org today's programming is sponsored in part by Jerry and Susan Tim honoring their sons Whitney Clark and Adam Tim's successful completion of year two of college. It's a minute before one. (00:54:50) The prospects for a new publicly subsidized Stadium for the Minnesota Twins have faded once again in the state legislature. I'm David Malpass on the next all things considered. We'll hear how San Francisco in St. Louis managed to build their stadiums. Largely with private financing. Plus I'll get a primer on Minnesota's fishing opener join me for all things considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. (00:55:15) Your to 91.1 k no W Minneapolis. And st. Paul of you are fishing this weekend. It will be a little chilly so bundle up the forecast today calls for decreasing clouds. It'll be cool with a high maybe reaching 56 tonight. Mostly clear cool. Once again with areas of frost possible over some areas of the Twin Cities a low tonight down near 35 degrees Saturday partly cloudy in the morning, then mostly cloudy with a 30% chance of showers sometime Saturday afternoon. A thunderstorm is also possible the high Saturday near 65 right now in the Twin Cities report of partly cloudy skies with a temperature of 47 degrees.