Thank you. Mike six minutes now past 11. And good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. If you've been following the public debate in Minneapolis, and st. Paul indeed around the country on race and education. You might assume that blacks and whites have dramatically different views of issues such as school integration academic standard standardized test School discipline, but a new Nationwide study out today suggests that black and white parents have a lot more in common than that public debate might suggest both groups support the idea of school integration and the value of their children being exposed to children from other cultures, but not at the expense of a good education in both groups put their highest priority on school safety followed closely by a strong emphasis on the 3 R's standardized tests. Well apparently most black parents do not think they're culturally biased. Nationwide survey of parents was conducted this spring by public agenda nonpartisan nonprofit public opinion research and education organization and the public education Network National nonprofit network of independent community-based organizations, which focus on improving public education and today is part of our week-long focus on education. You're on Minnesota Public Radio. We're going to take a closer look at those survey results and what they might mean for Education here in the state of Minnesota joining us from New York is Gene Johnson a senior vice president at public agenda. And the co-author of the report out today joining us here in the studio is Minneapolis state senator. Larry pulled him a letter the chair of the state senate K-12 education committee. We also invite you to join our conversation this hour as we work our way through the survey results and what they mean. Give us a call or Twin City area number to 276 thousand to 276 thousand out side the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free and that number is 1 800. 242-282-8227 6000 or 1 800-242-2828 Jane Johnson Center. Polka Miller. Thanks for joining us today. Thank you. Jean Johnson. Let me start with you. I know you folks have done a lot of studies on education issues in on this particular issue of race and education. It seems like like people are so polarized. That's what we were led to believe. Anyway, were you surprised that there seems to be so much agreement among black parents and white parents. We had a lot of us studies of the school that is quite an African Americans in other subgroups of the population that we have been noticing more similarities and difference, you know, in terms of concerned about school safety and concerned about standards are concerned about the three are so you know, it is actually one of the reasons we were so interested in doing the study is because you never seems to be in such a bitter disputes around the country on these issues of right? Education and yet we were seeing kind of behind the scenes the same kinds of Desire the same agenda for the public school among the group that we wanted to look at it a little more depth. I think that's what is most notable from the study from our point of view is the real urgency that kind of strength of concern among African American parents about getting good quality of high achievement school for their kids. And you know, it is a focus group is just it just beeps out of there, but you would have to ask about this concern about an African-American kids across the country where they really getting the kind of education that they need to get their own kids on this real Prima and to the point where even though it ofcourse Bay of a value integration of the majority of of African American parent in the survey in fact of Steel back busing That it that they were willing to put that as a lower priority than getting good teachers good curriculum good schools. I'm really good strong academic education for their kids. They really want to focus on that. Now how much of a relationship do the parents see between an integrated education and quality education, but you know it is that is an equation that you might think historic like on and there was actually kind of a a division among the African American parents about whether they value a divorce in integrated School NY parents for the social values of your we live in a diverse country. People say all the time of living in the first country. We need to know different groups of people. We need to be able to relate two different groups of people, but in terms of sheer academics at your academic achievement, they were much more concerned about a high standard school safety high quality teachers and less about the you know, the diversity in the mixer mixtures in the school. And in fact, we gave a long list of different ideas for trying to help all African American kids increase their academic achievement. And actually the last item on the list was I taking a African-American youngsters out of poorly performing schools and sending them to me. White schools that we're better people had a lot of different idea that they thought were better than that with what you've been hearing in early, but it doesn't seem to be surprising that individual parents care about their individual child and care that there are safe nurturing environments and challenging curriculum and quality faculty. And so I think that makes a lot of sense parents are are pretty smart. They know that those are the key elements to their child shaving educationally, but the public debate seems to focus so much on the numbers X number of white students in X numbers of black students and Hispanic students are there so much focus on on that. That the the concern that apparently everybody has over, you know, making sure that you get a good quality education seems to get lost in the shuffle what I think what you see there is a a interface between individual wants and needs and Community wants and needs and it's not surprising that parents regardless of race would want the same things individually for their children. When you then scale that up to what is in the best interest of the community overall. The reason we have public education education the public I think you do start to see some emerging differences between parents on diversity and those types of issues and it's not surprising. I think one of the results in the polling shows that a diverse student populations are more important to two pairs of color than they are to majority parents and that doesn't seem surprising because the school system in general I think serves majority parents better overall. And so I think what you're saying then is a a different discussion when we're talking about that type of societal good of having diverse classrooms and integrated classrooms individual parents. I think don't believe they should carry that burden and particularly. I think African American parents probably feel that they've been the ones that didn't have been most asked carry the burden for diversity in schools because of policy of 20 years ago busing African American children to White schools are different neighborhoods carried a heavy burden on African American parents, and I think they rightfully see that is perhaps unfair did pick up this an ocean that has as much as I eat. I think it is important to point out that if you're free after her parents to diversity of Education was was a more important concerning for white parents, but for both groups, there was the sense that a lot of the integration ever been I have to tell you the one of the things we put on report and we actually had to keep reminding. The people were talking to this is the people equate integration with blessing and you are the focus group think you were talking about all sorts of different strategies. And so there is that kind of equation that people make but for both groups for for the various strategies that can be employed. There was a sense that they were kind of a double-edged sword and for the African-American pair of what we heard were a couple of concerns. One of them is the one that you're talkin about the sense that that you know, black students are kind of picked up and put elsewhere. I ain't a lot of concerned if they're going to be going into a hostile environment environment where to go to the isolated on certainly heard those concerns on there was also concerned about see a black and white parents that integration efforts at 10 to distract cold school systems in other so much. Motion of controversy around as if it's somehow, you know that the system is focusing on on that and not so much on what's happening in the in the individual classrooms. Now the concern among white parents are both alike different and you know, we actually spend a lot of time out in the report trying to explain carefully what we heard the essence of it. Is this a lot of white carrots certainly endorse diversity as a goal. And I know we talked a lot about how difficult it was for a lot of the whites in the focus group even ask America the presents to talk frankly about these issues. But basically that the bottom line is it to a lot of white parents have chosen neighborhoods have gone to a lot of effort to to find school for the kids that they think are good or not a particular complacent about good school that they feel like it's something that's fragile. Tenuous and they do when when when pressed make a connection between a lot of having a lot of African American youngsters in the school and a variety of social problems that late they're quick to say and they say in the survey. It doesn't have to be that way but they're there is a majority belief that a lot of the African-American a youngsters are going to have academic and social problems and that they don't have a lot of trust in the public schools that those have been handled. Well so their fears you come into play at that point so that for them has a theory about education efforts is that the education of their own child will be harmed by having the school having to deal with with the kids with poor achievement or variety of different problem chance the gene that that that that's a factor of that races that the primary factor or the socio-economic The other reported that you know, he is surveyed or helpful in understanding people that you cannot possibly look into their soul. If you know, we all have our own individual private thoughts and I do think that we would point out of the focus group would fight parents by themselves. There was a real resistance to even talking about these issues in terms of black and white people. Are you a lot of people feel that it's either is just said absolute social Cebu or it's wrong with a lot of people seem to look to really feel that the wrong way to talk about things and you know, they're certainly in the survey finding the focus group was a sense that it is a class that they're concerned about an hour away from a lot of people white people in the in the focus group talked about having a African American young students in their schools that we're doing for a while or a neighbor's that you know, they aren't they are fond of and like and and that you had the sense that he was Middle class values of middle-class attitude see if they were looking for but that you know, I think that the the the the connection that people made between African American youngsters in large numbers and social problems. He's there and it is undeniable that and the people actually when they were we could have pressed it felt more comfortable that it did admit that they do think that's true again. Is that sound like what what's happening here? It doesn't it. I think it is a Doctor Johnson your results when I was looking them over did ring with the what we hear from parents and it is as difficult rhetorical or political discussion that brings race and class together with individual wants and needs for their children. That is crazy. And I think the difficulty in our political debate because we we Torn weather this is a race issue a class issue or not. And it appears that it seems to be both but that in terms of our political discussion. We don't have that balance, correct because the citizenry is reacting not very positively to this diversity discussion right now. And even though the polling here even shows that the parents tend to think diverse education is important. They do not have it very high on their agenda because they appear to be concerned that the overall quality of education for their child may not be what it needs to be and I think we need to figure out a way to to get a better balance where where all parents feel they're getting good quality and then try to achieve the social good of having diverse education because I think when you sit in piers, at least unless you're pulling showing something different that people do think it's important. They just clearly don't think it's important is having their child achieve individually. And I think you raise a important point that for both the African American parents and the white parents this this year that the kids not going to get a good education and it said that you are the schools and I can't really rely on good school that I haven't got a real confidence out of the public education in there even a very well-regarded school system. There's not this kind of certainty that it's going to be fine is influencing this discussion about diversity for both groups and you don't eat the day. I renew a of this report is a lot of questions about integration about the diversity of affirmative action and all these kinds of issues. We also are a series of questions about what makes a good school what makes a good education and you know, when you're doing surveys, you know when you can when you get about half of the calls done the results. Are pretty much what they're going to be in the final result of the name changed by a few percentage points. And so we were real worth of Midway to the survey we would get back questionnaires with percentages written in a 1/4 white parents and one for the African American parents. We could start thinking about what you're going to write and in in the office, we would continually have to keep checking on which group we are reading the results from because they were so similar in terms of what they wanted for the school and you know, the things that are about you know, the diversity issues, but would you really talking about what makes a good school what helps kids? Learn? What do I want the school to do they are except for that diversity issue where there is a difference they have virtually identical and so, you know, I think there is a Lyrics such an overlap on what they want the school to do with what they think would contribute to their own child. And I do think that is missing from the discussion because it seems for the outside if it's their only differences. There are some differences that there is a huge agenda for the school's their children are attending right now that are so similar if it's notes is it is almost dead in address within percentage points of differences that are there really meaningless some callers involve our conversation. But water on Johnson's Pond hear about this broad huge agreement on what parents want out of the schools safe schools and schools that really teach the basics. Why is it that we have such schools? And if not, why not? It would seem like these are our that that all the schools out to be able to provide those basic things for the kids. I can always argue about well, we'll have this little program or that program. But if we gotten away from the essentials here and there seems to be a sense of that among the people that are being pulled here. I think is that correct Miss Johnson and education in this part of it was not surprising guys because we have found these concerns all over among all groups across the country and there is this the kind of lack of confidence that you know, these are our things they can count on it and local schools and he is certainly a very good school students school system, but even not even your focus groups in area switch have any to school but other parents Envy, you know, we find this at the sense that a yes. It's a good school, but People still see your pants off and still still feel that they have to another to watch out for their kid that they have to make sure that you know, they're in the right class that they have to kind of really monitor almost as a consumer monitor the company so, you know, I I do still be seduced here, kind of a lack of confidence that the schools are going to deliver on this agenda scary to some extent that may be in the way. It's tough being talked about Minnesota. I think perhaps around the country is this question of delivery system as large bureaucracy as opposed to consumer-oriented delivery system, and I think that maybe what showing up as lack of confidence, it may not be that they are angry at the school's it may be that they they just think that it may not be its structural. It may not be organized in a way that meets their their needs as the rest of the society is changing in terms of being more kind of individually oriented and I and we are trying Talk about that deal with that in the school reform debate, but it's a it's a difficult debate because people care very deeply about this notion of Education the public of public education and they are very hesitant to even though they may be concerned about quality of Education. They're very concerned to Tinker too much with an institution that appears to have done a fairly good job over the last forty or fifty years and I think that's what's creating this kind of under the under the surface questioning of the delivery system delivery system. You put your finger on something that if we hear from parents at the school's bureaucratic aspect to the school that it did not really being open to them in a kind of user-friendly and though in the way that they they wanted to be but I do think also there is We all could accuse Americans of kind of just being out for themselves and then you will make me read as long as our our house is in order not too worried about the the other I find it in education is high even parents who are are pretty confident about their own kids school and their own a kids education still feel that it is absolutely terrible for other children to be in schools where they are not safe at about learning the basics. And so I let you know I think some of this dissatisfaction you see about the school is because people know that there are schools that seem to fail for a long time and he does seem to have many children and then we're not achieving at the levels expected and are not know people are I think appalled by your drugs in the school than all these kinds of things and and you know, there's a lot of discussion about whether this was kind of media for nomina. And you're in our polling. It's interesting because you know, the general public is most alarmed about some of these Edina drugs and violence problems parents next when we survey teachers and kids are they show less concerned you don't half of teachers at half of high school students saying there's too much drugs local school. So it's not it's not exactly the last thing you see in terms of the general public is not exactly a reoccurring kind of reading for the people who are in the school of everyday hour with Jean Johnson Senior vice president at public agenda nonprofit research group based in New York out with a new report today. She's a co-author of a new report out today call time to move on African American and white parent set an agenda for the public schools survey that measured the attitudes of a black parents and white parents and Public School System state senator, Larry Miller from Annapolis is also joined us and he is the chair of the state senate K-12 education committee. We've got some callers on the line, but we also have some open lines and so we invite you to join our conversation as well. Miss or our about public education and people's attitudes toward it specifically what appears to be a real broad agreement among the black parents white parents about what they want from the school's love to hear your opinions as well to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 Thousand Oaks had the Twin Cities one 802-422-2828 and we'll get to our first caller in just a moment. I'm learning Benson NPR campaign 98 continues with end up profiles of the candidates on the next All Things Considered will hear from Reform Party gubernatorial candidate Jesse Ventura who says throwing more money at education won't solve anything. And yet their test results are the lowest it's all things considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio Kano W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities afternoon, maybe an isolated shower up North but the partly cloudy with highs 70s to the low-80s Twin Cities Cloudy with a Chance for a shower this afternoon 75 to 80 degrees right now in the Twin Cities. We have a partly cloudy sky and 71° talking this hour about a new study out from the public agenda organization, which measure the attitudes of our parents black parents and white parents tour the school system and what they like to see from the public schools. We have a number of callers on a line and let me get you the number again. If you'd like to join our listeners to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828. I guess this our Gene Johnson was with public agenda co-author of the report and state senator, Larry. Debro your first wet please I am a black parent and my kids are doing very well. And I wanted to make a couple of comments, right? You know, I don't know how you go about getting your surveys and getting your information of the people that you call and that type of thing but I am in total agreement as far as when I'm looking for 4 I go for my kids or what I see as a problem and I hate my kids are in it a Catholic School. The reason I made that choice was on partly based on the schoolhouse magazine report and the schools are doodoo scholastically. Well in the states are very expensive and they're all on a price on a private private level. Nothing that the other public schools are not doing their jobs. But the ones that are not doing their jobs are consistently not doing their jobs and I think only partially the kids are to blame for that and make the majority of the blame should sell and the teachers were passing kids that are not meeting the basic standard. I mean mathematically me to English. I'm sites those types of things. I might think that the teachers need to have a performance plan like most of us have on our jobs. You're not doing the job and that this is easily. I rather not the kids are coming out of their classroom are able to comprehend what they learned in that classroom for that year and are able to perform at the level that things bad for that great. And if the teachers are not doing their job, I think they should be accountable for that. You know, I think that the kids some of the kids are not doing well because of their environment my kids right now, we're doing a mission. I do believe I'm running since my first graders reading at 3rd grade level and I attribute that to the size of the classrooms the structure of the classroom and also the discipline in the classroom still have rights. In other words the teachers they can discipline. They kids tell them no and mean it and follow through with that your survey found that slightly over half of the black parents surveyed would support in one form or another about your system. Switch was weather which was really targeted about low-income families being able to send their children to other schools. You know, there's been a lot of questions asked on vaginal area where I think survey research is a little problematic because it is quite the results could change depending on what we were talking about the commitment of parents to try to get you you owe you only have a few years to try to get a good education for your child. And I think this is his desire America Paris to try to do that. We also found actually in the survey that 60% of African American parents said they would send their child to private school if they can afford to do so, which is another area. I think it should be pointed out side by side with that is that in the long list of of things that we offered to people as ways to improve on education for African American kids The voucher question within the bottom half of the list. We were other ideas about what the the color I talked about this notion of having standards and making sure there's not a kind of social promotion on it at the kids are ready. When you're ready to go to the next grade. What was he know spoken of your office early and often and in the focus group. This is an overriding concern, you know, there is a question about that. There was a lot of support among both are African American and white parents about a program to help get kids ready for school on so there are a lot of ideas that people were open to in terms of improving academic achievement among African-American kids, and there was majority support African American parents for giving parents away to to improve something for their own child discipline. Faithful of a focus group discussions are all across the country among all group, you know this notion that what we seeing a lot of survey work. We the people feel that it is if it needs to be an orderly Fitness in the school, they are concerned about young children in order to be polite to each other babe lied to the teacher Bank like to the adult and they do feel that there's something missing in terms of the schools, you know ability to to enforce. I'm not your conium rules, but you a sense of decorum an order in the schools and their old is a lot of discussion about the Mueller. Why is that such a problem? I would why can't Public Schools clean that part of the problem? Oh, I wish there was a simple answer to that. I wonder though. Not trying to avoid that but what I found interesting to try to question values and there was a almost exact Agreement by parents. I'm on where's it honesty respect and Civility and it was in the high eighties or the mid-eighties, which I think is in the political debate. It's an interesting thing. It's almost as if we don't want to talk about values because for liberals, they think that some kind of discussion by the far-right where his parents are sitting here saying that schools are supposed to teach values honesty respect Civility. And those are the types of things that that would lead to this discipline issue presumably because of someone's being civil and respectful presumably there would be very few discipline issues in build in classrooms at all as they chairman of the state senate committee. Why don't you wave a wand and take care of their I think actually that the reason public education is having difficulty on it. As I think adults are having a hard time acknowledging that we are expecting values to be taught in school. Because of the fear of that discussion, but I think if we could get people to agree that there are certain values that we all agree on let's just admit that's what education supposed to be doing and move on. I think it might actually help so I can respond to your direct question. I think it's a an inability by adults to basically face the fact that we do expect some value discussion in public education. Say we we talk a lot to people about this and there are these so, you know this in the sense that the schools must take a role in teaching these kind of mainstream very commonly agree. Values in a lot of the parents will say. So much interested in courses on values as they're interested in the schools having an atmosphere and behavior is that cephalosporin what they want and they want the schools to be places where where I kids are respectful and that's part of that. You know, what you learned how you learn to behave in school. I ended up with their name. Talking about Steven your comment place and right now I'm in school to be a teacher and I'm working as an educational system. I work 3 years in middle school elementary school special ed and all of that and I see these problems you're talkin about one thing for sure. Is that the biggest problem with the segregated schools is what's a lack of financial resources that went to my school when I was going to school. We had very few programs for the students just basic education and then the teachers were very committed but we didn't have the financial resources to really do a good job. The other thing is kids getting behind and being passed to talk about that what I seen in special ed and also with kids with behavior problems is that are behind they don't understand you can't do the work so they show out they get in trouble so they get kicked out of class and not have to prove the show of the kids if they can't do the work. And on the only thing I can see that can fix that is to give those kids some kind of special ed services. They have to help them catch up. And that's just my experience. Also, I have three kids. So I'm a parent and they go to a different School than the ones I worked at and I can see behavior problems. That's cool. But because of the special ed services they have we put our kids back in that school. They had Sylvan Learning Center. They have reading programs. They had all kinds of things and fourth one of my students we have problems with reading they brought her up two grade levels because they have a special ed services and I think that made the difference between her being a kid misbehaving in class and being a kid who's learning. There is a very high level of agreement in polling the survey other surveys about doing something I should get to the most teachers as well trying to take the troublemakers on regular classrooms. I needed is a feeling that you me to pick up all the time that you know one one kid is that, you know, either they're a very disrespectful or their Call a my baby and I can't keep up or whatever the problem maybe and they they really do according to Paris and according to teachers and even according to the kids and we surveyed them a whole the rest of the class back and had to make Corey Carter besides that there is I I'm always struck by how strong is feeling is among most Americans that any kid can be turned around and it's almost an article of faith. I mean even even for kids to get into pretty serious trouble there is to sense that they are there are ways to reach this kids and it ended the way people talk about it. Is it that you reach these kids with the attention of adult firmness order effort and that they really got you know, do I don't want to talk to these kids. Did they do what I wanted out of the regular classroom. They don't want them, you know, poisoning the atmosphere photo speak in the school, but they really do not want that just got tossed off on the side and If you possibly get it even more trouble talking to shower with Jean Johnson co-author of a new public Agenda Report the organization and measured the attitudes of black parents and white parents toward the public education what they like to see from the school's how they think the schools might be improved and at least a judging by the public debate found a surprising agreement among the people of various races. She's joined us from New York to talk about the survey results in joining us here in the studio is state. Senator, Larry poggemoeller from Minneapolis. He is also the chair of the state senate K-12 education committee, and we invite you to join our conversation as well to 276 thousand to 276 thousand outside Twin Cities 1-800. 242-282-8227 6001 802-422-8284 next to Headlights. Thank you for having me on I'm a teacher and one of the first ring suburbs here in the cities and I'm also apparent although a parent of a toddler. So I guess that doesn't really count she's not in school yet, but I had an entire Litany of things down there. 221. I just wanted it to go back to the social promotion and kind of maybe give parents an inside look on how difficult it is as a teacher or a team of teachers I teach with a team of teachers and when we sit down at the end of each year, we come up with a list of kids who really shouldn't be passed on and the problem is that when we go back to those parents, they always have the right to override our decision. And so we feel very helpless when we have the students. We really feel up really can't come out to 8th grade or 9th grade and when we presented to the parents the parents say well You know, we don't agree with you and we're going to send our kids on and so they have that ultimate power to override whatever decision we make Aid and and it's very difficult and it's very just disheartening to realize that this kid is not academically prepared and sewing there's there's that that gap of understanding or lack of trust maybe even between parents and teachers. And so that's all I wanted to say my aunt that is is a behind-the-scenes kind of thing is we don't want to promote kids who are not ready. It's feels bad. It feels like we didn't do our job. And so we hold them back and hope that we can enlist something else some other resources and not just taking him back another classroom, you know, the same kind of thing that they just went through but an entirely different curriculum or a different program and so but it's very hard when parents say no we want them to be promoted because we don't want them to be behind and age or or or ahead of age. No, I don't want them to be older than the other kids not going to stop. And in really all we're concerned about their academics, I'm the second thing. I wanted to talk about as a teacher is kind of the values issue and the whole the whole school atmosphere at this point even in Minnesota, which is an outstanding state for a for education in the schools are very unclear. We've got the grad standards and and profiles of learning and they're very confusing. They're very hard to work with and is is a teacher in a middle school and we work through these things every day and and we want we want to make sure they're all teaching the same thing. So I teach science and we've got 5 science teachers and we all want to be make sure they were teaching the same thing. So it doesn't matter what teacher you have your getting a basic education, but it's really hard and it's and it's that trust with the parents who I mean, it's it's hate the whole community. To educate a child and I'm just don't see that. There is a trust with the fact that we're professionals and I understand that that you know, there are poor teachers there are poor lawyers and poor doctors and let me ask you this is a teacher if kids asses you back. What are you do? What can you do? That's posted them a room that says either our rules which are values actually if you look at them and talked about being respectful and raising your hands and your cycle Junior High kids do that then what happens and we give them basically two mornings and the next time they're out of the room and then that get sent home to the parents and then what happens thanks for the comments Brett. It sounds good. And it sounds like a people in the aggregate are are real happy, you know, they want the end of the social promotion. They want the tough discipline, but there are kids. Okay, so they don't need to keep a pair of Steel in this about the way people feel about getting a traffic ticket every what's the traffic, you know laws enforced, but when you're getting a ticket directly not happy about it. So you guys That is probably a part of human nature. You know, there is a strong support conceptually for having standards that have a promotion when we have surveyed teachers over the the country, you know, actually I've even though people often talked about the other parent overriding it not rather low numbers say that they have ever been pressured to pass a child that they didn't seal with ready. I doesn't mean there wasn't a pleasant is involved but they didn't really that that was not the overriding problem that they faced and I think the other element that it needs to be discussed in here is it we recently did a survey of employers College professors who teach a freshman and sophomore courses and teachers in the public school bag of his mother group and there was a major concern among the Ansah College professors that the kids coming out of high schools are not ready floors are not ready for the workplace. The college Shana. Ready for college work. The teachers were much more convinced that the kids were ready. And so, you know, I wonder if in fact you only talk about Sanders the releasing the same picture because it needed a teacher seem to feel that the kids were ready for college make most of them. Where is the college professors were saying now, we're seeing a lot of problems here. So I think there is a conversation to be had there about you know, what the standard really is and what the expectations are going to be at. Like what is going off again, at least one more call around here before we run out of time fascinating discussion. I think they'll go ahead. values and the respect Yes, people want value is taught in the schools. And in order to run a classroom. It's pretty hard to run a classroom without respect and understanding of other people and so on you I think those are basic values that everyone says they agree on and I'm an elementary teacher and in a classroom that has to that has to be there for my classroom would be king. We work on those things every day and know we don't do courses in values, but we live with values so you don't have a problem in your classroom with classroom discipline a kitten sassing back in the like to quote a parent this last year whose child has a lot of discipline problem. If anyone touches my child, I'm going to sue the school. And gently touching the child wasn't part of the plan, but we have a lot of parents and it seems as though we're getting more and more parents and students who are all the respect for the school isn't there as it was when I started teaching a number of years ago. And so I think I think it's great that at least it's out the idea of yes, there should be discipline in the school. But again, if it's their child many times there's a different issue finding parent support that you have to call her about what happened to the child that was back in class, but we have a plan. Where is the beginning Elementary School where the child has to write down what happened and why it was wrong and what they should do differently next time. Then that goes home to the parent to parent must sign it and return it the next day and we're getting more and more parents who don't sign and return it the next day and agree with the concerned for lack of respect in the schools and so on and it has to be a teamwork issue between the parents and the school. So anyway, thanks for your call. Really parental involvement is essential absolutely and I think that the caller I really voices. I think what we said, I would say almost the chief concern that we see him a teacher's you know, this sense is that they really need to count on the parent you note saying that education in school is important thing. This is a priority for the child whole are you helping to reinforce the standard whether it's in academics or our discipline is the ages of overriding and I think that a lot of teacher discussion about raising standards standards getting more from the kids and you know, the teacher go off and say in the in the in the focus group funding to the fact that we're between a rock and a hard place you you want us to to to teach the higher standards. Have to have support support with the order in the discipline of the motivation of the kids and you know, they feel that that that that that has to be in place for them to attend to get kids needed to reach further and and and learn more and it's just an absolute necessity in terms of how the classroom for the schools. Let me ask you one quick question here in June before we go one of the things that comes up often, especially in terms of the the urban school districts here and I suppose elsewhere in the country is that these kids are coming from such a tough background that it's it's next to impossible to expect them to do but would you do well in school? How do you remove your respondents deal with that? We delayed reaction to ask that a number of a Time the question about that, you know, which child has a better chance of success, you know a child who comes from a troubled family goes to a good school or a child who a comes from a good stable family go through for school and you know majorities of both the African-American white parents of Americans across the country inn and other survey say that it's the child from the strong stable a family. They really feel that the Aveda peretola involved with the parents on motivation the parental first teaching the valley. At home on East is crucial on the other hand. They there is a sense that we see that the school's could do a lot more even for troubled kids at at the schools could do a lot more in a fairly or unfairly what people thinks could do a lot more to reinforce a higher standard academically and behavior so that the parents are empowered ever need a lot of parents say you don't trying to teach might might my kids did X Y or Z and they didn't go to school and it's allowed you know, so you don't think there is a sense that the teachers are saying either we need the parents to help us a lot of parents are saying you know that we need to school to it to it for some rules because then you don't want to try to get them to add to it. It is safe and and reasonable way and so you know what I think there is a conversation that needs to be had here because it's almost like Ability of a drive is quartz a conversations, but people Clearly say family in and I I found the Miss Johnson in the public agenda is work here very informative myself today and hopefully we can help move that conversation forward and get these schools and educational delivery system where parents would like it to be where I can get you back on another day Gene Johnson do some more with this this pretty interesting material. That's exactly what we hoped. Jean Johnson Senior vice president at the public agenda. New york-based a nonprofit the nonpartisan research organization call time to move on African American and white parents set an agenda for public schools. Also joining us this our state senator. Larry pulled the Miller from Minneapolis, who is the chair of the Minnesota state senate committee K-12 education committee. We will be rebroadcasting this program by the way at 9 tonight. Education tax credits graduation standards school funding school safety which education issue is critical to you and your family in this Fall's election. Stay tuned to Minnesota Public Radio news all this week as we focus on education in Minnesota and where some of the candidates for Governor stand on the issue explore the issues know the candidates on Minnesota Public Radio news knlw FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities.