And good morning. Welcome to a special edition of midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. Well as you heard Minnesota's big tobacco trial the state of Minnesota and Blue Cross Blue Shield versus the major. Tobacco companies may be over Minnesota Public Radio news has learned that a tentative settlement has been reached in the lawsuit official confirmation of the settlement is not expected until Court reconvenes. This afternoon lead plaintiffs attorney. Michael ceresi was scheduled to deliver his closing arguments to the Ramsey County jury in st. Paul this morning. The jury was then scheduled to begin its deliberations, but instead judge Kenneth Fitzpatrick ordered a recess until 1:30 this afternoon, the two sides of been negotiating a settlement said to be worth some 6 billion dollars the shower. We're going to check in at the federal courthouse in St. Paul to get all the latest information on the potential settlement will also be looking back at the trial one, which has captured national attention.It is already had an effect on a proposed national settlement and lawsuits elsewhere around the nation first though. Let's join Minnesota Public Radio is Elizabeth's to Wiki at the federal courthouse in st. Paul morning Elizabeth. Good morning, Gary. What do we know? Tell us all? Have settled have a tentative settlement for six billion dollars over the next 25 years. We've also heard that the State's Attorney's and Blue Cross attorneys namely the robins. Kaplan firm is supposedly taking a smaller percentage of the of the settlement then they initially had talked about that initially was supposed to be about 25 per-cent we hear it's it it would be less than that even maybe less than 10% but that those attorneys fees would come on top of a settlement in Winnetka, Would that be taken out of the money that the state and Blue Cross would get No, the word tentative is being used. What does that mean? It means that none of the regular party's here who we've talked to throughout this trial are confirming it. We've just heard a lot of off the Record folks from some of the attorneys involved in the case. Just say that there's been a tentative settlement in addition to that. Skip Humphrey who was supposed to have a press briefing here this morning at about eight-thirty never showed up. And so that kind of fuel the speculation that he's involved in some of these discussions or at least didn't want to have to answer questions from reporters about whether or not a settlement has been reached. Was there a lot of surprise Express Windward of a of a settlement came out this morning because I know it talks of been on and off at least for the last week look like it was dead in the water the potential settlement. Fox had resumed yesterday again and that there was they were having a better time of it last last night. As far as there being any kind of good response today. I'd have to say that most of the the reporters here had some inkling that there was a settlement what was kind of interesting is that in the courtroom when the judge came out and said that the case would be continued meaning that they would delay the closing arguments at least until 1:30 this afternoon. There was someone of a gas from a couple of the people inside the courtroom in the audience who had been waiting hoping and to see Mike seresa. Give his closing argument. Some specifics are recognizing we don't really know the details of the Seattle presumably all the companies are involved are there had been talk that one company was really eager to settle with this presumably with For all the companies presumably is supposed to cover all the companies in and near correct. I had heard that one of the company's was I was thinking of going out on its own if the other defendants in this case would not agree to to get back in there for the settlement talks in speculation Elizabeth about any big sticking points as to what held up a gentleman. That initially it was the attorneys fees and and also that the tobacco companies had wanted some immunity for the counties who were planning on filing suit against the tobacco industry on later on. It's it's unclear at this point what happened with the immunity situation the attorney's fees seems to have been somewhat agreed upon. But again, these are kind of off the Record sources and I think you know, we should be at least aware of that situation is waiting until 1:30 for court to reconvene or what what happens we are waiting around out here in full force. And so I would assume, you know, we are pretty much badgering anyone who comes what comes through who has any the the smallest relation to this case and I think Justin and the sheer harassment Valley I think at some point someone's going to have to come through in and say yes or no, but you know what? It sounds like they could put this off until 1:30 this afternoon and it's also possible that they could put off put this off until even later in the afternoon and let Mike series he give his closing arguments and I suppose it's possible since none of this has been officially confirmed by anybody that the whole thing could fall apart until I guess there is a final word from anyone or from both sides. There is there could be speculation to that. Maybe someone is floating this to see how it would go over. Will keep us posted Elizabeth will check in with you and Laura McCollum through the hour here. Okay. Alright. Thanks, a lot of public radio reporter Elizabeth's 2 Wiki at the federal courthouse in St. Paul is Elizabeth minotta to a full full Coterie of reporters on hand as a as a speculation continues that agreement has been reached a settlement desoto's lawsuit against the tobacco companies. Minnesota Public Radio is learned that a tentative settlement has been reached for about 6 billion dollars joining us now is Joseph Daley who's a law professor at Hamline University former prosecutor. He's been following this case very very closely morning Professor. Are you surprised I'm surprised that it's probably going to take place before mr. Sharif's he argues for closing cuz I thought that they would want to Get the publicity and political value out of that but I'm not surprised that there's a possible settlement does the apparent settlement does that indicate that in this case? The tobacco companies felt they had lost the case and would take whatever they could get out of it is is that how we should interpret this interpret? What is that only means it's really an exercise of people who are in Conflict basically promised each other that the result of this. Free lawyers who teach trials gear that's what I do at Hamline University law school. We actually press our students to to come to negotiate settlements whenever they can it's it's the maximum exercise your free will and it's really the way people really should resolve conflict. So it's really hard to say whether or not the tobacco companies would have lost my own view is that they would have lost it would have lost big. Now if a settlement has been reached does that end the matter then no appeals of any sort no appellate review of any parts of this case. That's what is negotiated settlement does it it ends the matter and presumably written into that agreement. We've heard speculation that there would be some kind of ongoing oversight of the tobacco companies that would be part of the agreement. You think they advertise for example, if part of the agreement is that they're not going to market the children anymore and the judge I can keep this case related to that matter, then it's possible that the kids could come back. Today at judge if there's some argument that they've broken settlement. What do you suppose is going through wild course, they don't know this yet. But when the jurors get word of this assuming the case has been settled. They had sat there patiently since January 20th. Are they likely to be happy about this or pretty upset having having a what on the face of it seems to be totally wasted their time all these months initially. You're going to be frustrated. I think that this jury in particular has really concentrated each time that I've been over there and I've several days just concentrated on looking at the it's been remarkable. But I think this jury has understood almost from day one that they've been involved in a momentous and historic case and I think they've known that I think you're going to be frustrated initially probably because they've been sitting there with all this kinetic energy ready to be unleashed the sensory and if not, he won't have a chance to talk to unleash your company's faced. If if if the kinetic energy of this jury had really Unleashed after looking at all this fraudulent Behavior because it's where I could companies who knows what would have happened to them. So I think the jury will be frustrated and I think it will be very important for the judge or Court Personnel or lawyers somebody to explain to them that they played in the resolution of this conflict despite the fact that they haven't had the final say they played in the critically important role in this side in this conflict Final in terms of legal impact does it make any difference whether this case is settled or whether it goes to a jury? In terms of the ultimate resolution it does not if it's the sun is in fact for 6 billion dollars and other kinds of things that we are yet to determine if there's going to be some kind of injunctive relief for example that they will never advertise again or Market to children will not matter whether it went to the jury in terms of legal relief what really matters in this case is that the fraud of the tobacco companies has been revealed. Well, thanks so much for joining a sir. You're welcome. Preciate it Joseph Daley who teaches law at Hamline University. He has been following this case really since it began back on January 20th really before the case began when all the pre-trial maneuverings we're going on a kid again. If you're just tuning in we have learned that a tentative settlement has been reached in the Minnesota lawsuit against the big tobacco companies. Apparently, the two sides have reached a settlement said to be worth about 6 billion dollars of court is Ben recessed. It will reconvene at 1:30 this afternoon and we should get some official word one way or the other if not before 1:30, then certainly by 1:30. When Court resumes today Michael ceresi the plaintiff's lead attorney had been scheduled to deliver his closing arguments this morning and saw. Judge, Kenneth Fitzpatrick recessed Court until 1:30 this afternoon since then it's been learned that a tentative settlement has been reached course, we're in touch with the federal courthouse over in St. Paul will be checking a little later this hour with Laura McCollum was covering the story for Minnesota Public Radio, and we will keep you posted at on all the latest developments. We thought though in the meanwhile, it would be helpful to see you how we got to where we are today namely to look back at this trial at its heart Minnesota's tobacco case is really a fraud and antitrust case the state of Blue Cross Blue Shield have claimed the tobacco companies violated for Minnesota consumer protection laws, and the state's antitrust law, one is whether cigarette makers violated their responsibility to research and disclose the health risks of smoking. The judge is already ruled that u s tobacco companies assume that obligation when they publishing And call the Frank statement to cigarette smokers in 1954 count to is the antitrust claim weather company of tobacco companies conspired to suppress research and the health effects of smoking accounts for through seven are the consumer protection claims and whether the company has violated the Consumer Fraud act the unlawful Trade Practices Act and the false statement and advertising act as well as the deceptive Trade Practices Act. The judge would decide on that last count state of Blue Cross have been seeking 1.77 billion dollars and actual damages plus punitive damages. The judge had told jurors that because this is a Civil Trial the burden of proof is the greater weight of the evidence, but there is a stricter standard what's good witches called clear and convincing evidence for those. If damages it took the state and Blue Cross Blue Shield 2 months to present their case to the jury and the tobacco companies spend six weeks. Air defense Minnesota Public Radio is Elisabeth Shue Wiki looks back. Now after trial lawyers on each side of the case sparked even before the trial in mid-January the state's Elite attorney. Mike ceresi crashed a tobacco industry, press briefing and told tobacco officials. It was inappropriate to call a press conference just before jury selection. You have other lawyers up here. I'm lucky I found out about this pretrial drank or gave way to courtroom civility early and jury selection about 50 attorneys from Elite national law firms filled half a room with Grey Flannel. They contrasted sharply with potential jurors plaid and flannel shirts blue jeans and University sweatshirt after the jury was impaneled. Tobacco companies Ask Judge Kenneth Fitzpatrick to dismiss it. They said yours were biased against them Fitzpatrick refused over the next three and a half months jurors heard testimony from the CEOs of Philip Morris RJ. And Liggett they also heard from authorities on marketing economics and smoking and health tours viewed slivers of human lung and relived old cigarette TV commercials. I've Been Love You by Winston Well attorneys battled inside the courtroom. They also fought in other courtrooms the tobacco industry appealed 18 of the judge's rulings including his refusal to remove himself from the case the industry lost all 18 appeals including two to the US Supreme Court many of those appeals centered on the tobacco industry trying to keep internal Company files out of the Case Files which Minnesota attorney general in gubernatorial candidate. Skip Humphrey called smoking howitzers the we want opened up and we want the public to understand the state's lead attorney. Mike ceresi showed jurors a video tape of Congressional hearings where tobacco Executives publicly maintain cigarettes weren't addictive even though the company's own research show. They were seven people in 1994. Swear under oath like the Seven Dwarfs saying that nicotine wasn't addictive they don't Today the only one that mentioned Isley get so fat so well-known. Why don't they just come out and say hey nicotine is addictive. We're telling the World Series. He also show that you were a videotaped deposition of the late CEO of American Tobacco Robert Hyman disputed the surgeon general's Landmark 1964 report which said smoking causes disease are as far as you're concerned is the Surgeon General simply wrong in concluding that cigarette smoking causes lung cancer. I would use the term misguided. But if he's misguided then I take it that your opinion is he's wrong. How's it going to be polite about it not being polite, Silas Deane invoke the 5th Amendment against self-incrimination more than a hundred times in a videotaped deposition. Tobacco lawyers had fought hard to keep that testimony out because they worried how is yours would react to his refusal to answer questions one. Tobacco executive did testify for the state Bennett Lebow of Liggett. The only company to break ranks with the tobacco industry. The boss said, he could no longer continue the party line and its case. Well the state used a road map of industry documents to orchestrate its side the tobacco industry largely relied on live witnesses to dispute the states claims those Witnesses. Who did company Executives in scientist a Minnesota historian and experts on statistics in antitrust Minnesota historian hibernan let off as tobacco's first witness, but his testimony appear to support both sides of the case Vermin testified minnesotans have long known about the health risks of smoking but he also supported evidence that show the industry misled the public at the conclusion of his testimony. It was hard to know huberman testified for when he stepped down from the witness stand. He gave a thumbs-up in a warm handshake to the state's attorney Mike. Sorry see my results of my findings to the court. And let the chips fall where they may offer to set back in April when it lost a major appeal to the US Supreme Court to keep nearly 40,000 internal documents out of the case the result the state gained Newfound opportunity to introduce a new and potentially damaging internal company files during cross-examination of tobacco Witnesses. Saw those memo suggested. Tobacco lawyers, not scientist controlled internal company research on smoking and health and RJ Reynolds memo also said the company considered removing research reports from its files to protect itself from lawsuits, but perhaps the most notable witness for the defense was the creator of r.j. Reynolds controversial Joe Camel campaign critics have long held Joe Camel as a symbol of cigarette marketing to children after a medical journal found first graders wear as familiar with Joe Camel as Mickey Mouse. Reynolds marketing executive Lynn Beasley testified her company markets to adult smokers. She said her job is to get them to switch to a Reynolds product now to induce children to begin smoking the company's attorney. Bob Weber says Beasley's testimony showed Joe Camel did not cause children to smoke their dislike of cigarettes increased. So it's a very clear message that the camel campaign did not change the way underage people thought about cigarettes underage people don't like cigarettes and vast majority of them don't like cigarettes and Joe Camel campaign didn't change that at all. Those numerous appeals attorney say they put on a good defense. They point to Witnesses who testified the state inflated it's damages and others who disputed State claims the industry broke antitrust laws still the overarching theme from tobacco attorneys was they could not get a fair trial in Minnesota Philip Morris attorney Peter Blakely. Two particular issue with the judge's ruling that prevented the defense from raising the so-called death credit argument the argument that smokers cost the system less because they tend to die sooner card rulings in these cases I've ever seen anywhere is that you will keep evidence away from the jury because it's horrendous. There is absolutely no question whatsoever that cigarette smokers do not cost more in healthcare than non-smokers the net cost is last but we're not allowed to present that evidence because we would be taking advantage of the fact that our product kills people and a half months of testimony were attentive even through some of the most tedious testimony. Their cohesiveness has been apparent one day in April that you re enter the courtroom wearing matching t-shirts that read Minnesota. Tobacco trial several have weather in financial hardship. Cuz they had to take unpaid leaves from their jobs all to sit on a jury and decide a multi-billion dollar lawsuit. I'm Elisabeth Shue Wiki, Minnesota Public Radio. Now, it may be that the jury won't be deciding this lawsuit after all if you're just tuning in we have learned that the two sides or three sides actually in the case have reached a tentative settlement and that the tobacco companies will be big paying the state of Minnesota Blue Cross Blue Shield some 6 billion dollars no official confirmation yet of that tentative settlement though. The court is currently in recess. It is scheduled to reconvene at 1:30 this afternoon at which point we should receive official word one way or the other on weather. In fact, this case has been settled out of court. Meanwhile, this hour. We're taking a look at the trial or some of the issues raised and talking with some some observers of the trial and of course, we'll keep you posted Laura McCollum in Elizabeth's 2 Wiki standing by at the federal courthouse in St. Paul and just as soon as I have some more official information becomes available. We will pass along to you will continue our special report on the tobacco trial in just a moment. It's well worth the investment Minnesota Public Radio definitely stands out as a bright spot, or you can give news like this anywhere else. It's definitely worth. It stand form numbers are single largest source of Revenue at Minnesota Public Radio the bouncer books this year. We need to reach the 85,000 member Mark by June 30th. If you receive a notice from us, please mail it back today or call us at one 800-227-2811 right now and get yourself founded. Minnesota public radio's Main Street radio coverage of rural issues is supported by the blandin foundation committed to strengthening rural communities through the community leadership program reminder over the noon hour unless there are some major major developments in the tobacco trial which case of course, we'll go live to the courthouse. But otherwise we have we're going to hear from the chief judge of the war crimes Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia erections Excellency. Judge Gabrielle Kirk McDonald who is a Twin City native, by the way. She was in the Twin Cities yesterday to speak of the Westminster Town Hall Forum on the war crimes World ethics. So you can hear that address over the noon hour today second hour of our midday program The Weather Service says we can look for some showers across much of the area today casual brain. Nothing too serious with highs today upper 50s in the west to around 70 in northeastern, Minnesota. Tonight cloudy for the most part maybe some rain in the southwest with Louis from the mid-30s in the arrowhead region to the mid-50s down in Southwestern Minnesota. And tomorrow cloudy to partly cloudy skies are forecast with high 62 around 70 and it should be dry with a high temperature right around 70° on Mother's Day on Sunday. Twin Cities are partly cloudy this afternoon with a high in the mid-60s cloudy tonight with a low low to mid forties and tomorrow in the Twin Cities partly cloudy with a high 65 to 70 right now around the region Duluth has a partly cloudy Sky 47 Holton with a fair Sky 54 Sioux Falls cloudy and 58th. St. Cloud cloudy in 53 Rochester with a cloudy Sky 59 and in the Twin Cities, we have a cloudy sky and it's 59° this hour we're talking about the tobacco trials special Minnesota Public Radio report on the tobacco trial we have learned that there has been a tentative settlement reached in the lawsuit. Minnesota Blue Cross Blue Shield brought against the major. Tobacco companies reportedly. They have agreed the tobacco companies have agreed to pay Minnesota and blue and the blues some 6 billion dollars a quart is currently in recess court is scheduled to reconvene at 1:30 this afternoon, of course, we're monitoring continuing developments and if we don't receive word before 1:30, we expect that some official word one way or the other will be announced when court reconvenes at 1:30 this afternoon. Meanwhile this hour of midday or taking a look at various aspects of this trial and there sure is lots to look at this case has received Nationwide attention what sets Minnesota's case apart from all previous challenges to Big tobacco was the plight of success in getting access to internal Tobacco Company documents. They've been called everything from smoking howitzers to the crown jewels of the conspiracy some trial Observer say they prove Tobacco companies lie to the public other say they merely embarrassed industry Minnesota public radio's Laura McCollum reports on the role that the documents have played in this case Jerry's with paperwork throughout this trial from fat research tomes jokingly compared to War and Peace to the documents. That was formerly secret Tobacco Company memos that industry critics say reveal corporate conspiracy and lawyer cover-ups attorneys for the state and Blue Cross Blue Shield say these papers distinguish their case from previous efforts to take on Tobacco. They introduced about 2,000 internal documents into evidence during the trial some tout the benefits of nicotine a potent drug others talk of targeting 14 to 24 year old a member of the state's trial team says among the most significant are handwritten notes buy a top Philip Morris scientist instructing documents to be shipped overseas or sent to his home for Destruction Minneapolis. Attorney. Mike Winer who brought Minnesota's first. Lawsuit against the tobacco industry on behalf of a smoker in 1984 says the documents are devastating to Tobacco companies because they show the company's misled the public about the health risks of smoking for decades. The magnitude of the documents shows how massive the effort was how long standing it was almost every document could really be the Smoking Gun document because it shows the tobacco companies new despite their public position. They call some of the state's Witnesses document delivery devices will merely speculate on what the documents authors must have meant when they wrote them decades ago. And at least one legal analyst isn't convinced they prove the states claims of an industry-wide effort to Market to teens and a long-standing conspiracy to suppress smoking and health research David Logan is a law professor at Wake Forest University. In Winston-Salem North Carolina companies were not candid and we're not forthright and we're not certainly aggressive in pursuing the public health consequences of use of their products. But you know, I think most everybody who hasn't been in a cave for the last 10 years. Maybe not even knew that going in the middle aisle to so I'm not sure how at the end of the day remind me to documents added a whole lot to Minnesota's and Crosses case File Observer Joseph Daley who teaches trial law at Hamline University says the documents are what gave Minnesota the ammunition to go to trial. He considers two of them critical and they're not on the thirty-nine thousand to Bacco companies fought bitterly to keep secret one isn't even an internal company memo. It's the so-called Frank statement a tobacco company add two smokers that appeared in newspapers across the Country in 1954 pledging the industry's commitment to researching the health hazards of smoking the State's Attorney's say from that moment on the industry had the obligation to share all it knew about the dangers of smoking with the public. The first thing the jury will decide is whether they violated that Duty daily says the other key document comes five years later a memo on a trip by three British. Tobacco scientist to the US reporting that the American Scientific Community concluded smoking causes lung cancer something that companies have never admitted publicly and which their trial Witnesses insist hasn't been proven and instead of doing what they promised they do to the public. They did almost just the opposite and there is document after document after that, but he's proven that the industry's conduct led to the damages the state claims that goes to the heart of tobacco companies defense and they explain why they practically ignored their internal documents while questioning their Witnesses Philip Morris attorney Greg Little argues the papers don't overcome the weaknesses in the state's case one is that the state simply was not misled the second key Florida is that even if the state was correct? And all of its wild allegations about a company misconduct. There's no causal link between what the state alleges happened and the damages that they alleged they suffered some legal analyst believe even if the state hasn't been is convincing with its damage estimate jurors may be so outraged over what they read and Internal memos, they'll side with the state hamlinz, Joe Daly says, he's tried cases where the defendant's conduct was. So blatantly negligent jurors didn't question the damage amount. Even if you can prove a little bit of damage is a jury get so mad at what they've done and they're so angry at what they've done that they're willing to say. Okay. It has to be at least this much and now the judge told us so we can use punitive damages on top of this lecture really hit him instructions to the jury didn't specifically addressed the role of the documents in the case, but he did tell jurors if any defendants destroyed documents, they should assume the worst that the papers would have been damaging to the tobacco industry. I'm Laura McCollum, Minnesota Public Radio in killing a national tobacco settlement in Congress critics of a deal reached by the Attorney General of 40 States and the tobacco industry last June use the documents to push for higher and higher damage. Finally prompting leaf. Tobacco companies to pull out of the deal Minnesota public radio's Bob Collins looks at how the Minnesota trial has changed the national debate on Tobacco by the time the prosecution rested its case in March the national settlement of 40 similar State lawsuits was dead Congress is about to debate a much tougher proposal that strips the tobacco companies a bunch of their business. What is their ability to advertise and kills an attempt to protect them from future liability suits as prosecutors mounted their case in Minnesota the tobacco industry lost most of its political support in Washington through the rulings of Judge Kenneth Fitzpatrick, Minnesota gave the national debate 26 million documents detailing out tobacco ran its business what they put in the cigarettes and how they try to prevent people from finding out any of it. That's why I'll also provided a lesson to other states how to sue tobacco. It's really provided a road map for other institutional plain of the states or insurance companies. To make the same kind of arguments in individual suits and individual states might well have been reluctant to have not the case going at it as well as it appears to have gone for the plaintiffs in the Minnesota Minnesota. Trial was obvious last month. When a group of Blue Cross Blue Shield organization sued. The companies will argue virtually the same themes as Minnesota Blue Cross Blue Shield has Minnesota Health Care organizations such as Allina and Health Partners would shy away from following Blue Cross Blue Shield initially launched their own lawsuit armed with the evidence the mic ceresi team uncovered Richard A Nerd of the tobacco products liability project in Northeastern University says the Minnesota trial will launch dozens of other suits and tobacco will be hard-pressed to make them go away with out of court settlements. Other insurers, I think it brings out large corporate employers who was self-insure their employee health care cost I think. Buckets are open for Philip Morris says Minnesota was the perfect place for a suit against tobacco a situation other states and other institutions will have a hard time duplicating. I doubt that there will ever be a situation where the combination of pretrial publicity an attorney general who's running for governor. That seems to be on a daily basis almost holding the press conferences about the about the case of court rulings that really have almost uniformly gone against the industry. I don't know that they'll ever be another situation quite like this law professor Michael Thibault at Cumberland University thinks Minnesota provided a little more than an airing of the internal company memos. He says the original national settlement was going to die with or without the trial and any lawsuits that are filed by emboldened Plato's following the Minnesota case won't make much difference. I don't know how many times You can bring the industry to its knees financially through lawsuit to me. I think you could only you can only put a bullet through his head one time. And you know, what, do you have 40 suits or 400i and of the potential exposure to the industry from the suits that are out there now, it's is enormous and so maybe other people will join the party, but I'm not sure at this point, but that'll change the the settlement. It's very much the flood of do lawsuits does not guarantee courtroom Victory even with the exposure of the millions of documents in Minnesota. Tobacco companies have never lost a state initiated lawsuit during the Minnesota trial. Tobacco, 1 quart skirmishes in Iowa, Florida and Indiana, you know, it was a supreme court substantially limited the state's ability to recover damages in a case very similar to Minnesota's Iowa AG Tom Miller thinks the Minnesota case has given his some life those documents are important to us particularly in the state Rico the ongoing criminal conduct count and in the Consumer Fraud cow. Including the documents concerning kids many. Tobacco critics want a jury verdict in Minnesota. They think the ceresi team is damaged the company's enough to Warrant the first courtroom win for a state settlements more than jury verdicts. They'll have the potential to change the way tobacco does its business for example of advertising restrictions are part of any settlement of the Minnesota case Congress would likely impose them. Nationally, Georgia. Anna said Boston University School of Law says advertising restrictions are virtually unenforceable on a state-by-state basis of trying to do this state by state by state and Minnesota state if it settles down turn to settlement with the tobacco company that we could do it state by state or have it done by Congress in conjunction with the tobacco companies that it seems to me that has to be done by Congress years. Tobacco's biggest fear was the government would regulate it with settlements in Florida and Texas that is now a certainty Hamline University law professor. Joe Daly says the game changed when the supreme court order. Tobacco to make internal memos public it's going to be highly regulated like other kinds of drugs. We're going to require them. I think to to reveal how their product is made and we're going to make them stand by their product if their product causes diseases, they're going to have to make sure that they stand by just like we make everybody stand by their products that they make and reveal the dangers that are in their products, Iowa. Attorney. General says the documents probably loosen the Minnesota case if I open the window on the tobacco companies business, he says politicians and looked inside when the tough are congressional bill was reported out of Senator John McCain's committee last month. It was on a 19-2 one vote. He says that sort of congressional Unity against the company's never would have happened before last January. I'm Bob Collins, Minnesota Public Radio. It's about to 15 minutes now before 12. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. If you're just joining us Minnesota Public Radio has learned that a tentative settlement has been reached a tentative agreement rather has been reached to settle the state of Minnesota's lawsuit against the major tobacco companies. So apparently reportedly companies agreed to pay the state and Blue Cross Blue Shield some 6 billion dollars no official confirmation though of this report at settlement court is in recess and I will reconvene at 1:30 this afternoon and presumably if not before 1:30 by 1:30 or so. We should receive official word one way or the other whether in fact of a settlement has been reached. There have been lots of interesting aspects to this trial raising some interesting and brought her questions about just how the legal process works in joining us not to discuss some of those questions is what are Minnesota's most prominent defense attorneys Minneapolis. Attorney Ron meshbesher morning, sir. Good morning. First of all the top of your head. Are you surprised that they finally decided to settle what sides to allow the jury to make the decision? I think they were working on that settlement was just a question of dotting the I's and crossing the t's and maybe squeezing a few more bucks out of the back of people should we read into the settlement the fact that somebody expected to lose or is it more of function that they just don't want to take a chance that they're not going to win or frayed of a very very large punitive damage award. The plaintiff lawyers may have been afraid that the case could have been reversed on appeal. I think they felt fairly confident. This jury was Give them a verdict of but there were some serious legal issues that have never been decided before in any court, and I'm not sure that the state of Minnesota and the plaintiffs wanted to ariscat ask you about one of the interesting things about this trial and really all these high-profile cases. The attorneys really do seem to work the crowd outside the courtroom now presumably that the jurors never hear or see any of this why what's that all about the rules in a criminal case are different from the rules in a civil case. The rules of professional conduct in most States including Minnesota prohibit a lawyer in a criminal case for making out-of-court statements where there is a likelihood that it will Prejudice the pending case no such rule applies in civil cases, which means the lawyers are free to make any comments. They want to the media now maybe are the rules should be changed. There's also been some question whether the rule in criminal cases is violative of the lawyers First Amendment rights, but the courts generally have upheld that rule and as a result you see many court issuing what's been pejoratively called a gag order an attorneys in high-profile criminal cases. And that's very common in this day. We seen it in a number of cases. I know I had imposed on me and some federal court cases. But in this case, it's obvious that both sides. Making statements to the media in order to offset remarks made by the other side and I think there's little doubt that some of this information got back to the jury and all this talk about billions of dollars a settlement couldn't I couldn't but not how Prejudice the jury with respect to the case. And if they read in the paper Etsy tobacco companies that are selling cases for 5 billion dollars or 14 billion dollars around the country as this jury understands what the damages are and that's why it was very difficult. I think to keep that jury pristine. So theoretically all of these comments are just directed to the news media and that's the broader public but in fact everybody knows that the jury will likely get some of this information. I think most lawyers is Sumit. I've been surprised over the years that the most jurors listen to The Courts instructions and will not read a newspaper or Zara. The radio or watch television concerning the case, but sometimes it's this case that I had such pervasive publicity and it went on for so many months that I find it hard that jurors intentionally or otherwise, I did not know of the amounts of money that we talked about in some of the out-of-court statements made by attorneys for both sides any case for that matter judge Fitzpatrick has both been both praise and criticize for his handling of this case. Our judge is supposed to be they have any latitude in terms of what they can say things that may sound kind of prejudicial the one side of the other are they supposed to be above all of that supposed to You're not supposed to Telegraph to the jury in any way that they have a feeling one way or the other and so judges are to be careful. There are cases where judges have been reversed by appellate courts for becoming an advocate and the courtroom. It's like I was involved in one of those cases in the a circuit where he a federal judge was reversed because he took part in the questioning of witnesses and made statements in the presence of the jury that let the jury know exactly where the judge stood in this case will be because of the judge Mason adverse ruling to one side doesn't necessarily mean that the judge is prejudiced the judges just read the launch. I'm doing who did he may be right you may be wrong but the jury is instructed that the Court's rulings on evidence or not to be considered one way or the other and I understand that because the course of the trial special on trial the judge will rule in favor one side of the other an evidentiary rules and the jury understands what's going on in those things that just tells me I'm just following the rules of evidence. Chase may have had some different aspects to it where the jurors were if they read the papers were aware that they are the lawyers for the Tobacco Company were very upset with the judge and the jurors may have got information that never came out in the courtroom as a result of that and that was an unfortunate. I think what do you think about the comments that Lisa Ricci Law Firm stands to make while it was some talk at one point that they were going to get a billion dollars out of this case. Now we hear reports that they probably would get substantially less but still a significant amount of money did attorneys in general make too much money on these kinds of cases, right? He'll just promise to be that he was going to merge our to Law Firm retroactive to January one 1998. Did a terrific job and I understand that the law firm at out of pocket expenses. I just time of out-of-pocket expenses and excess of 10 million dollars. Have they lost the case? It was nobody to pay them back. So they took the state off the hook for a lot of potential losses by the fact that they won the case will get those expenses back. I don't know over what. Of time the attorney's fees are going to be paid. Obviously when you have a 6 billion dollar settlement payable over 25 years, which is my understanding as to one of the terms the present value of that settlement is much less than 6 billion dollars probably somewhere between 1 and 1.5 billion which is still a staggering amount and generally the attorneys are only supposed to compute their fee on the basis of present value. So we don't know what the terms are. We don't know if they companies agreed to pay the attorney's fees in addition or whether that has to come out of the total settlement. I just haven't seen the term but I think the attorneys in this case absolutely earned that money are they did with no other attorneys in the country of ever been able to do a squeeze some secret documents allegedly secret documents out of the tobacco companies filed and expose Lake tobacco company to the American public. So the public can decide for themselves whether the tobacco companies violated the law and I think more importantly I think it gives the public an idea to say when was this moral forget about the legal aspects. These are corporations major corporations who work around the world and where those activities at the engage in moral let alone legal. Thanks for joining us. Appreciate it Minneapolis defense attorney. Ron meshbesher joining us now is Jenny wagon who is presently Association for nonsmokers four years, of course, she has been Leading the fight here in Minnesota against the smoking and join just I understand the genie from the federal courthouse. Right? I've never seen reporters here say they've seen Lots worse than this, but I've never been in the middle of anything like this before. What do you think is the settlement a good idea? I know a lot of people in the Public Health Arena had hoped for a jury verdict will try to settle things once and for all and so the tobacco companies can't say we've never never had to have never lost a case. They all said that that would have been nice but we also know that they could have tried this thing up for seven or eight years or longer had it gone to a jury. They would have done appeals. And even if we had prevailed in the end it would be years and years down the line. So if there is a good settlement out there and I don't think Skip would agree to anything that wasn't good. There's a good settlement out there. It's better as a negotiated deal. Then as a jury verdict just because of the possibility of years and years there has already been lots of talk about what Minnesota might do with all this money. What do you think the state should do with it? What's it like to give it back to the taxpayers? And I think that's what we will really will do but I hope we will do it in a real smart way. We know if everybody quit smoking today, we will still be looking at 20 years of excess medical expenses. And I would hope that our legislature will see that this is a really big chance to pay those bills set the money aside to pay for smoking related expenses and then try very hard to help adults. Quit smoking and prevent kids from getting started. This is this is really our investment in the last question. There has been a lot of for Focus about the kids and smoking do you think ultimately it's realistic to to assume that that the kids won't smoke left that there will be a significant change in that. I think it's realistic to Hope for Kids. It may be that in the long run. We will have five or six percent of kids. Maybe 10% of kids that smoke but right now it's almost 30% and that's just unacceptable the health consequences of that are just staggering and we really need to be doing everything we can to prevent that from continuing Association for non-smokers. Joining us now from the federal courthouse in St. Paul Laura McCollum and right in the midst of that Maelstrom, right Laura. All right for people who are just tuning in. There's a tentative settlement. Is that right billion dollars, but I should mention we were just talking to Randy Hopper and I know he was on our air earlier this morning, but in case people didn't hear he believes that the six billion dollar deal if its 6 billion over 25 years, so it wouldn't be 6 billion of front of about 2.7 billion. His interpretation was five hundred million dollars and attorney's fees which as you know, the attorney's fees have been a little controversial in the case and he believes five of seven defendants of signed on to the DL. We're still there's been no official announcement obviously at the courthouse. I did just see Assistant Attorney General Lee. She he walked by who is apparently this state's Chief negotiator in the talks. He's Milling around here possibly talking with the judge. As you know court is in recess until 1:30 this afternoon and any settlement the judge would have to approve it. So it it's likely if there is a settlement deal the attorneys are going over it with the judge and possibly he would make an announcement at 1:30. But as as I mentioned we don't have time commitment in terms of when a deal would be announced the seven companies Randy Hopper said, you know, there are four major tobacco companies, but there are 10 defendants in the case. So you might wear call one of them was dropped. There were 11 defended the state drop its claims against one of the defendants a British export company last earlier in the week. But now we've got ten defendants. But Randy Hopper was saying five of the seven. I'm assuming the major tobacco companies have signed the deal. So presumably they that the trial itself would still be over that there wouldn't be that like the trial today against one of the companies. Possibility that will get official word when court reconvenes at 1:30 this morning. He didn't show up to come to closing arguments but then closing arguments were postponed. So we haven't seen the Attorney General yet radio reporter Laura McCollum. Go along with NPR's Elizabeth II Wiki are standing by outside the federal courthouse in st. Paul or awaiting some official word on whether in fact a settlement agreement has been reached to settle the lawsuit and so does lawsuit against the big tobacco companies. And of course, we'll keep you posted as more information becomes available right now. We're going to catch up on some news headlines. And then after the news barring a major developments at the trial Westminster Town Hall forum. beginning Monday on Minnesota Public Radio listen for a series of reports examining the role of the state's Pollution Control agency and its critics each morning at 7:20 on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a cloudy Sky now 59° at Cana W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul should be partly cloudy through the afternoon with a high reaching the mid-60s cloudy tonight with a low low to mid forties been partly cloudy tomorrow the high 65 to 70 on Mother's Day dry with a high near 70.