MPR’s John Rabe interviews Jeanne Manford, co-founder of support group organization Parents, Family, and Friends of Lesbians and Gays (PFLAG). Manford shares thoughts on her son and about the organization.
PFLAG began in New York around 1973, under the leadership of Jeanne Manford. Her activisim started when her gay son Morty got beat up -- as police stood by -- while he was protesting for gay rights. Manford was awarded the Presidential Citizens Medal in 2012.
SPEAKER 1: The next morning, my Morty called me and he said, "Mom, you can't believe it. Everybody's calling me up telling me they can't believe my mother said she has a gay son." And then the following June, Morty asked me if I'd marched in the Gay Pride parade, which was '72. So Morty and I went, and I said, no, so many people are marching. I want people to know why I am marching. So he made a card, "Parents of gays, support our children." And--
SPEAKER 2: Well, more than a card, a big sign.
SPEAKER 1: A big sign. Yeah.
SPEAKER 2: That really advertised exactly who you were.
SPEAKER 1: And as I walked along, people started to applaud and scream. And then they came over and kissed me and asked-- a lot of them asked if I'd speak to their mother. And they said, wow, if my mother saw me-- And I really was-- it's the first time I realized what the situation was.
SPEAKER 2: In fact, you had known that your son, Morty, was gay for a long time. And his therapist, in fact, outed him to you--
SPEAKER 1: That's right.
SPEAKER 2: --for whatever reason. What did you think when the therapist told you this?
SPEAKER 1: I was surprised, and I really didn't know anything much about gay people. I never thought about it and hardly knew that there was a difference. So, when I was told, I said, well, I loved him last night, and I don't know how he hasn't changed. And so what if this is what he is? He's really a very superior person, and it must be all right.
SPEAKER 2: In Eric Marcus' book, Making History, you and Morty talk about what made your family different from other families, where maybe the parents loved the kids but weren't willing to step out and be as public about it as you and then your husband, Jules, were. Have you been able to figure out exactly what it was, what it is that makes your family different?
SPEAKER 1: I really don't know. I wasn't worried about the neighbors because I figured they have their-- I'm not interested in their problems or whatever or whatever goes on in their home. And I don't care what they think about me. It doesn't bother me. And I love Morty, and I'm not going to make him miserable or be miserable by trying to change him or-- this is what he is.
SPEAKER 2: So the next year, you began a group called Parents of Gays, which was the thing that eventually would become PFLAG across the nation. You said that you see yourself as a bridge from the gay community to the straight community.
SPEAKER 1: When I first marched, I said, it must be the people. I'm not the only one, but I bet each parent thinks he or she is the only person. And so they come together, and they see that there's so many people who are proud of their children. And they come and say, what did I do? What did I omit doing that my child is gay? Why is he trying to hurt me? He's doing it on purpose. And so we try to-- you know, people told their experience, how they felt about their children. And I, of course, did believe that it was the way we were born, just as some people are left handed. And so we would discuss it.
And, very often, I remember a couple occasions, this woman came to me or called me later and said, you know, my husband and I were blaming each other. We were on the verge of divorce, and we feel entirely different now.
SPEAKER 2: Your son, Morty, was very active. He was involved in gay activism at Columbia. And then he became an Assistant Attorney General for the state of New York. He died in 1992 of AIDS. Did he ever tell you what it meant to him, that you had been so supportive, so public, even?
SPEAKER 1: We never discussed it. I guess we just took it for granted. You know, we just-- we loved each other, and we understood that.
SPEAKER 2: So this marks the 25th anniversary of your first March in a Gay Pride parade. It's the 25th anniversary of the Pride Festival in the Twin Cities. What's the biggest thing you've seen change, and what's the biggest thing that you have seen not change?
SPEAKER 1: I don't see as many people come troubled to the meetings as we used to back in the '70s, not changed. There were still groups who were bigoted and don't want to listen, and, just because someone is different, will hate them and do mean things. I guess that hasn't changed.
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