During this next hour. We're going to explore the Saint Paul half of the Twin Cities are candidates. Of course our state legislator Andy Dawkins and assistant State Attorney General Norm Coleman. And again, we should point out. Both candidates are Democrats are no Republicans in the st. Paul Reis either glad you could come by gentlemen. I'm Gary Andy Dawkins about a week ago. You said that if you could raise enough money you'd win the election. Now, there was a story out today indicates that Norm Coleman is way ahead of you in the fundraising that that you haven't made your target. What does that mean is it's not going to win. Well, we raised enough money to do anything but be on TV, so I really thank channel to forgive me. This opportunity is out there to pay attention and really we've got to make sure that all of you who are undecided know that my constituents who I've represented my clients at my Law Office all of those people who have over the years see me work hard in the neighborhoods. I haven't had the time to go.For four years like my opponent and schmooze with the big CEOs in the suburbs and get those kind of dollars. So it's going to be we're rich and volunteers. We got lots of people we're going to make sure we get information your doors, but we're not gonna be on TV. It's all your money come from Big Money the lavish comes from citizens throughout st. Paul. I've run against the endorsed candidate of the dfl. I'm running against a fish name. But how about you have a percentage breakdown in terms of big contributors versus little contributed? We have lots of both in your I think the reason is I believe that the message is resonating that if you're concerned about crime that Norm Coleman has a plan of people saying I want it. I want to support, you know, if you concerned about keeping jobs in st. Paul people say nor by want to support if you really concerned about keeping taxes down people saying Norman going to support you money doesn't vote but I do hope and I do believe that the message that I have been talking about and in listening to people that it's coming together and people are saying we're going to support you and they've supported me with dollars with volunteer hours with with people power speaking of getting people.Vote though. I mean that's one of the problems that people don't seem to be interested in this campaign. I mean, how are you going to get people out to vote her is a small voter turnout to your advantage every time someone contributes $20 or $50. That's a vote and I've got a lot more of those contributions that mr. Coleman. I also think that the important part of this race is thinking about who's got a comprehensive strategy who's been talking details who's been talking substance and when you listen to Dawkins, you know, it's not just putting more police officers on the street. If you listen to Dawkins, it's about finding a niche for st. Paul within the region in terms of achieving the economic development dollars. We need to find that's the Dawkins message. The Coleman message is certainly resonating out there and I think people are interested. I think they're going to vote with packed here tonight people have tuned into the other debates. The papers have really picked up the coverage. I think you'll see a good turnout. I want a large turnout because I believe the Coleman message about jobs and Safe Streets and keeping the line on taxes holding the line on taxes is what people are going to respond to. Okay? Well right now we are going to focus on the future.Sure of downtown st. Paul. Is it one big black hole or will several new promising projects come through to bring the downtown back to life. Well, mpr's John B 1 and K TC ATVs, Jennifer Waters took a look at four questions that the new mayor will have to answer. It's a bit lonely down here in the st. Paul Riverfront West publishing left here almost two years ago and with it went more than 3,100 employees many of whom used to eat and Shop regularly downtown. It's all so lonely in the central business district were vacant office and retail space have been popping up with increasing frequency property values, which rose at steady levels throughout the 80s dropped for the first time last year. The unemployment rate was up and total tax revenues were down business and city leaders agree that the foundation of future economic growth depends on retaining jobs that will certainly be a challenge facing the next mayor some say the best hope for generating excitement and business in downtown st. Paul is culture the new History Center the science museum the Ordway and about 20 other institutions make up the much touted cultural Corridor. I view the cultural Corridor as the real Foundation the real guts of what makes a Central City. mayor, Jim schaible says that if culture can bring people downtown shops and restaurants will follow he wants to spend part of the money from a new half-cent City sales tax to bolster downtown Arts organizations Skeptics question, whether that's a good use of taxpayers money, the next mayor will have to decide St. Paul Civic Center manner golf four million dollar renovation and sixty million dollar expansion. It's a move that Business Leaders. Hope will prime the pump of economic development in downtown st. Paul. It also appears to be a last-ditch effort for many downtown boosters digs airing is among those who believe the Civic Center is vital to st. Paul's future. We don't have that many clear options in terms of strengthening the base during the next few years in downtown st. Paul in the Civic Center's one clear opportunity a financial crisis at the st. Paul Port Authority on the 19th Floor Of The Landmark Tower could further weaken. The city's ability to Spur development. In the 1980s at the city's request the quasi-governmental Port Authority financed a long list of developments including call tear Plaza that later defaulted analysts say if the port can't get relief from its Bond holders the port's bond fund itself May default by 1999 some say letting the port default would damage the city's credit rating but bailing out the port would cost the city an estimated 40 to 60 million dollars. Norm Coleman, what should be the priorities for developing downtown? You've got the cultural Corridor or bringing in business or filling office space What you're going to be a priority you need a coordinated plan and you have to understand that first and foremost those people who bring money downtown who bring life to retail those who work there. So you got to bring jobs if you want to retail follows traffic. It doesn't come in of itself. And so you got to keep existing business there. We can't afford to lose another West publishing and I had begun that process reaching out to those Business Leaders and I don't care whether they're Democrats or Republicans visiting with them listening. What they want from me Marine is to is to make the streets safe and clean and I can do that the on well, I'll give you it's the third part of the strategy second part. The second most dollars are spent downtown by people who live there and Lower Town downtown st. Paul so largest growing residential community in st. Paul. I'm really glad John and Chad have left but I'm glad that Minneapolis had become a sports bar Haven because it's driving all those artists to st. Paul and we want them there. They spend money there good citizens. We wanted. Down third then the third aspect third part of the coordinated strategy has to be the entertainment side its Civic Center is it is cultural card. Is it Science Museum on the riverfront that will kind of create life will bring energy. So you need a coordinated strategy keep business make downtown residential friendly and then deal with the cultural aspect Andy, what are your priorities? Well downtown is a neighborhood and we've got some exciting plans for the riverfront. We're talking about a science museum and Amphitheater. We're going to have a new Wabasha Street Bridge, they'll be an interpretive Center on the river and the national park and I think the key is to make sure that we connect that development with the cultural Corridor that goes from the capital to the History Center down to the Lower Town Arts community and that's going to take some mass transit that's going to take some thinking to make sure that the Wabasha Street bridge is just not for cars, but it's also a way to give move people across whether it's a trolley or Light Rail and if we do that if we're able to hook both sides of the river together downtown is going to thrive it's going to do well and I think one last thing is that you know, you think about the A petition with the malls that we have. What we really need is to think about all the downtown st. Paul is like one mall and have a coordinated plan for whether it's signage or whether it's ours or whether it's promotions. All those kinds of things in a mayor can do that. I'm excited about getting to work the idea of building along the riverfront is an exciting idea for st. Paul, but doesn't it in effect add to Spur the disintegration of downtown as a retail Center seems to be if you look at Minneapolis, for example, there's not a lot of cross river traffic there from River plays back downtown. So Carrie Carrie if we can bring life to the river. We need a spark. Let me back it up. One of the things that the mayor has to do is get rid of this sense that downtown is dead that st. Paul is dying. So you build on the riverfront the size of says they want to be there as mayor I'm not going to tell them here's where you have to be let them build on the riverfront. I believe that can spark a growth rebirth along the riverfront perhaps an Amphitheatre behind it other development will come consistent with a Riverfront plan. The river is part of the heart and All of st. Paul, we simply need a little spark to Kindle the flame. Imagine a worker at the state capital gets on the trolley takes it over to Harriet Island. Enjoy his lunch over there or someone at the end of the workday can take the trolley and see a concert at the Amphitheatre. There's so many ways that we can connect it all and it's close enough. I've been in a lot of cities and st. Paul's pretty small if we can't connect all these things up but not doing our job Andy. I want to go back to the point that you're making about the state employee coming back to downtown st. Paul. I mean one of the problems with St. Paul is it is a city of government workers. And you know, what they do at 4:30 to 5:00 o'clock. There's this huge rush hour and they all rush out to get back to their homes in the suburbs. Now, how do you entice them to stay downtown? Well, you know, I play pool for gall to your Billiards. I had didn't this summer because I've been working on the campaign but at nine o'clock at night when I'm done shooting pool. I sure wish there was some to do to that's one of the reasons I'm running for mayor so that we've got some life in the city. So people will stick around after work. Well, what are you going to do though? I mean, what am I going to do? What? Singer. No, I understand. Happy birthday in Dutch, but I'm not much of a singer. I think that what we really need is to make sure that the family attractions that st. Paul is putting in place right now. Give us the chance so that all the visitors to the Mega Mall thirst. It's the third most attractive place in the country to come visit. Why not get them to downtown st. Paul and have the kids get a little bit of an education Marina the history set. Actually the mega mall has been a boon to downtown st. Paul. The hotels are filled. One of the first things I'm going to do as mayor is to get the hotel in Town Square open open that up. We getting tourist traffic there. We have to decide who we are sample is a place for families Science Museum Children's Museum, we can build upon that thanks for finishing my answer now. Okay, we're going to continue with the candidates in just a moment. If you're just joining us you're listening and watching to the candidate listening to and watching the candidates for mayor and st. Paul. We're broadcasting live from Keys restaurant in the Midway. St. Paul, I'm Gary eichten along with Marine willenbring it's time again to check in with our Trio of reporters located in what we call the truth booth over here. Here's Minnesota public radio's Betty Wilson Mike Mulcahy and Jim Ragsdale who's a reporter with the st. Paul Pioneer Press. Well Jim, there was some pretty substantive points made in that last discussion isn't this issue of Business Development one's kind of got a lost and all the talk over crime and yes indeed made a pitch for the pool playing vote. I think I think it's true. This has gotten lost since everybody has sort of switched over to Crime. I think it's a shame because I think a lot of people say Paul Geary concerned specifically about downtown. They want to see it come back. They talked to said a lot of the same things though Betty they seem to be pretty much in agreement on this. It was interesting was that and and the tone seems to be more agreement there. I'm boring will bring back with the candidates for mayor St. Paul Community crime prevention more cops on the street Public Safety First. These are Buzz words that have become familiar to us through this campaign. Mpr's marks. The Declan took a look at what those Buzz words mean in three different st. Paul communities. Here's his report. A decade ago in the WCCO TV documentary on the edge Bobby Hickman was talking not about gangs drive-bys and crack but threats posed to Inner City youth by truancy petty crime and pot-smoking anybody that dedicates your commits themselves to that kind of Lifestyle can only have that to look forward to the penitentiary Hickman who is still working with Twin Cities youth says communities have regressed in their ability to deal with crime. And when we did that thing ten years ago that it would have sent some messages to somebody to say that 10 years from now things have got to be better. I'm here to tell you that if that was 1982. This is 1972. Like Hickman's efforts of the early 80s St. Paul communities are looking toward Grassroots solutions to crime in addition to traditional law enforcement but morning in st. Pauls Frogtown neighborhood a coalition of community groups is going door to Or among other things. It's an effort to find out what local residents think needs to be done about crime Frogtown action Alliance executive director shim Shakir. The answer here is not more police, but the work with the ones that you have but I think that we need more Community participation and we need more money to deal with the causes that is provide more opportunities in this community. So people can have jobs and decent houses not everyone agrees the answer to Crime lies in community intervention. I think that's what people are afraid of they don't want to get involved. They're afraid of the violence being perpetrated upon him like Terry wolfert fellow East Sider dick Taylor agrees. St. Paul needs more cops on the street for the headquarters of the Third Street block club, which happens to be Taylor second-floor apartment. He has documented criminal activity in his neighborhood to help police. What he wants is an assurance. There will be a response the police must interact with the people who have in the community they must Bob need to be able to talk to somebody not over the telephone you call 911. You don't know whether going to come or not. Improving communication with police is also a concern on st. Paul's West Side Community. Organizer Gilbert Vallejo. We like to see some more officers who could speak Spanish bilingual police officers. Westside leaders are also rallying their neighborhoods diverse communities to deal with crime. It's not only a Hispanic issue or a blank issue an aging issue. It's a community issue and we rally people around that. To make me wonder hobby Hickman think had there been more Community involvement a decade ago. Things might be different today. We were to be talking about community community building conflict resolution and strongly then as we are now, I don't know that we would be as deep in this hole today. Okay, Andy Dawkins, I want to ask you I think that you have a perception problem among voters as to whether or not they can really take you seriously on being tough on crime - crime. I live in a neighborhood where we've been tough on crime for the last few years by enlisting block Club. Just like you saw up there. That's the way you fight crime. It's a comprehensive strategy of dealing with crime. It's not simply and police officers. Like the gentleman said we've got to intervene in our young people's lives early enough so they can be a positive influence. That can be they become taxpayers instead of tax burdens talk about guns. Okay, I've made gun control a priority for my race for mayor take some with some courage to stand up and say no more guns get the guns out of the hands of our kids off the streets out of our schools. And I know that realistically at the legislature we may not get total ban on handguns, but someone has to make that case so that we get something done. There's a lot of options. There's things we can do why should it be that you can go in a gun store buy a gun and then go right out there in the next person you see so too and it's all perfectly legal. There are things that we can do and I'm going to make Strong stance and get rid of the guns. We need to be realistic when it comes to dealing with crime realistic and that there are problems today that have to be done with police a part of the solution. You need more police on the street. I have been very consistent about that not to cover the city in a sea of blue but to give life to community policing get the police in the neighborhood walking down the beat visiting the stores talking to the young people. You also need to involve Community Action. Absolutely the police cannot solve all our problems. We need the community to be involved but when you got to be working together and then you got to look ahead you got to look at prevention. You got to look at programs like Dad drug abuse resistance education, but let's be realistic talking about banning guns is not going to solve the problems on the streets today because it's not going to happen and I support gun control, but let's be realistic. Let's deal with the fear today. Let's deal with the attitudes about violence. Let's deal with work bringing communities together to fight crime. There was a powerful piece of video that people saw those of you listening on the radio to get a chance to see this but some kids Are basically rifling through a newspaper stand and one of the kids was standing there with a shotgun. Now. How did we get to this point? I thought it was better we get there. We lost a generation the because we have neglected to ask our young people to be contributors to our society. We've lost a generation because we've seen increased poverty. We've lost a generation because we do not have a comprehensive strategy to make sure that every young person can have chance to go up there for I think I think that we've it's not fair to say we've lost a generation perhaps part of your generation. The issue has writ. There's a values issue here. Not every young kid who doesn't have money your users guns and holds up stores. I think that's a terrible indictment of this generation. We need to be tough on those who are predatory tough on those who use guns. We need to reach out and sure opportunity for the vast majority of the 99 percent of kids out there who maybe just hanging on the edge give them hope give them opportunity but deal tough and deal firm with the predatory spread others. Could I just yeah, I was talking to a group of high school students today at Harding High School and I asked him what kind of ways would you like to become contributors to your community? And one of them said that she'd To teach theater to third and fourth graders, if we had more of that kind of interaction between our older children are younger children, we wouldn't have so many kids rifle and stands to do though with being mayor. That's what I want to know. I mean both of you sort of seem to be indicating you can solve problems that are really not within the periphery of the mayor the mayor can have recreation activities or the mayor can spend a lot of money inside a city hall pushing paper around. I'm determined to shake up the city's budget so children come out on top. So more young people have Recreation opportunities some more young people have a chance to get a good education those kinds of things Marine the mayor cinch the tone of the mayor sets the vision. I often say that I don't create jobs as mayor I create an environment in which business wants to stay in which families wants to stay. So you work with your chief of police you work with the legislature you work with the community you set the tone and let people know we will do the things that have to be done to ensure safest thing Paul. It's got to be someone that can implement this community policing idea that she phinehas got to start on the legislature. I passed a lot Laws to help my neighborhood become a safer neighborhood crack house evictions Law Drug Free school zones lock so on but you need to have a city in a police department. They're willing to move forward to implement those laws the crack house you visualize gain and dust on them without doing any good. We need a chief executive who can make things happen. Somebody suggested that we need more bilingual police and that I'm writing will is that a practical suggestion though given the budget constraints that you have to work under? Well, we're going we always have a new police officers as older officers retire and I think bilingualism should be a primary requirement for a new police officer to get a job at sounds one of my commitments is to require residency for our new hires that will assure us. I think of getting greater diversity of our applicant pool. I want my new cops to come from st. Paul and I do think that we have to have police who reflect the face of the community community policing is not a program. It is a philosophy it is it is a mindset. I need cops to a bit of communicators in the all Runners. Well, let's go to this community policing philosophy because when you when you seem to talk about Be policing it always seems to involve going out talking to businesses or going and kind of walking the neighborhoods, but most the neighborhoods that I know of in St. Paul, you know, people are working there during the day. So what does that mean that the police kind of go out and they knock doors at 8 o'clock at night give you really give you a good example though Payne Avenue. We opened up a police substation on Payne Avenue this Administration. Did I applaud them talk to the store owners on Payne Avenue the Lori Loughlin towards Donald. He'll tell you that having those cops on the street having cops on the bikes and the neighbor would have made his employees feel safer have made his customers feel safer and therefore improve the quality of life in that neighborhood. It's very important to have cops on the street in the neighborhood. If if a police officer was out of the squad car knocking on the doors between University and Thomas and Victoria and Dale where I live that police officer would identify what the key problems in the neighborhood. It's not that we've got a hundred crack house. It's that we got one or two. It's not that you have to wait until there's a drug by before you evict someone it's that you can do it on the police officers testimony that this is it has all the characteristics of a crack house. The tenant wants to come in and defend the judge. Sides, there's a lot of ways to do these things that we're not doing right now and I want to go to work as your mayor and get this job done very briefly. We don't run out of time and this segment should the st. Paul police department have any contact with the games in st. Paul? I think that the st. Paul police department under Chief Finney knows who are the players out there that need to be dealt with and who are the ones that are causing trouble and go after those but for the young people coming up, we need the police to be coaches that are little league instead of going out to the suburbs and being coaches out in the suburbs. My opponent called The Gang Summit of Peace a peace conference. I disagreed with that. I think leadership on top has to give no legitimacy to gangs clearly the offices on the street have to have the contacts and they will to be affected. They need to know who the players are but we have to be very clear the message we send parents is that we do not approve of and will not tolerate game Reverend James saddle called that peace conference at Mount Olivet church, and he's been a friend of mine for a long time. Okay, we will be back to the candidates in just a moment Jim Mike. It seems to me that crime is certainly a big big issue in St. Paul just as it is in Minneapolis, but my sense is that it's more a matter of degree and st. Paul. It's not the divisive issue that it seemed to be between Dearest. Sharon Sales Belton, what's your feeling? Angry? I don't think it's I mean, I think it's an important issue but I don't think it has reached the kind of the emotional level. You've seen in Minneapolis. I'm not quite sure why maybe it's because the candidates as you hear they basically agree on a lot of solutions. I've got a lot of Hubert Humphrey style Democrats still in st. Paul to who believe that social approaches are the right way to go right becomes a kind of a question of emphasis which candidate you believe will follow through with the programs that both seem to agree on very good. Gary eichten back with the candidates for mayor in st. Paul Norm Coleman and Andy Dawkins in the preparing for tonight's debate. We wanted candidates to get specific about their ideas for the city of st. Paul. So he took them both to a neighborhood in st. Paul talk about strengths and challenges facing the neighborhood what to do about them. We chose the West Seventh Street neighborhood in st. Paul which really gave neither candidate an overwhelming majority in the September primary. And here's Minnesota public radio's Mary Lozier with candidate Andy Dawkins. The West Seventh Street neighborhood lies on the Bluffs of the Mississippi River on the edge of downtown st. Paul classified by the Census Bureau as low to moderate income. It has well preserved historic homes dating back to the 1800s alongside working-class neighborhood struggling to hold their own against Crime and Decay. It's how you like living here. Salsa, what can we do to make it better? Stop shooting stop the shooting, you know, Tim Morgan moved into the neighborhood three years ago. A plot of flowers over there is from a huge who died. He was stabbed in the chest at a party the last two weeks of her gunshots of two separate nights, but on the other hand, there's a lot of there's a lot of people on the ground here and it's I think I still think it's real good Community. It's savable for sure. Yeah, and we've got a couple of short years to get a handle on crime and violence in the guns that are in the hands of these kids. Got to get young people to feel like they can grow up to be somebody Morgan says most of the problems come from just a few houses where absentee landlords fail to screen tenants. Let me give you an idea what we can do about that. We had a community police officer that was assigned to this half mile area that understood this was the problem. All that officer would have to do is be a witness to what you've seen on a day-to-day basis go to court have the County Attorney handle the eviction and we can help you out. In his campaign Dawkins has promised to give poor people more of a stake in their neighborhoods by using government subsidies to help them buy homes, when the tenants of one of the so-called problem properties come to see what's going on Dawkins explains his plan to them. There's a lot of things I want to get done but one of the really important ones would be to give you a chance so that you could buy this house instead of just being a renter. Okay, and because I think that the housing system that we got right now provides welfare to absentee landlords don't even live in our town. What we should be doing is having the people live here have a chance to own their houses again. What do you think I'm with you 100% Doc and says participants in his housing program would have to be law-abiding and willing to work hard. We did it with gentrification in terms of allowing our up-and-coming mobile population to come in and do dollar houses and fix them up. There's no reason why we can't let some of our poor families come and do the same exact thing. And says his housing proposals will work without raising taxes that is mayor who will ring out in efficiencies from the city budget. He'll also tap private sources of revenue. For example by helping unions invest in St. Paul housing 20 years ago many of the houses around Irvine Park were tenements slated for demolition. This was a rundown area of town between the railroad tracks and downtown were hobos hung out at and I think that you can see the vast difference of what we've done Andy Dawkins says saving and restoring the homes of Irvine Park is the kind of Enterprise heat apply throughout the city. I'm Mary Lozier. Well Norm Coleman, we'll take a look at your tour of West 7th here in a few minutes. But what what any general reaction to What mr. Dawkins had say, well some of the things I agree with. I mean we would be better if that Community had a police officer walking down the street. We do need to redo the housing. But let's be clear there are some Basics that I just kind of like screamed at me watching that that is that first neighborhoods have to be safe. We're not it's not a bricks-and-mortar issue alone. You can put all the money you wanted to housing would have neighborhoods aren't safe. Those houses are not going to be maintained because people are going to move secondly people had have to have jobs. You need a strategy to keep jobs in st. Paul. If you don't do that again, you can talk about owning your own home, but people are going to be able to afford to live this. We really got to get back to Mayor basics of safety jobs, and then also have the ability to reach into the not just government dollars, but clear those Union Pension funds the foundation's reach to the state reach the feds to improve the quality of our housing stock. Maybe. Well, you know, the whole thing is about investing in people you get safe. When you start to make those Investments, and yes, we need to invest in building small businesses back into our neighborhoods. We need to invest in having people have a chance to own their own their own home again. We've gone from 70 percent owner occupancy in many parts of st. Paul to 30% and I think there are enough law-abiding citizens out there that we can fill these houses up and make them safe. That way. We're not going to make them safe by Brick more put more police officers out there grab on everybody and locking them up norm. And and the other thing that let me finish it's clear to me that you don't have to just have a government handout to buy these houses that you got to expect something back from these people. You got to expect accountability from these people would like to have a chance to be somebody again and you put a clause in the contract says you're going to be law-abiding. That's what your Equity build-up his condition done. And I'm sure we can find law-abiding citizens to fill up her house and steam pump and then I get back to the basics. We need to have safe neighborhoods. We need to have jobs and clearly there are some resources out there the same pole Building Trades is tied into the national AFL-CIO and they're committed. Taking Union Pension funds to reinvest in housing and st. Paul so we can reach out we can do the things that and he's talking about but you also got to deal with the basics. If we don't do that, then those bricks and mortars are going to deteriorate. Do you think that the people that we see in many of these communities actually want to be there or if they had the money with a move to the suburbs everybody that I'm eating like st. Paul think st. Paul is a pretty great City. We got some solvable problems and I want to go to work on solving those problems. I can't think of a nicer place in the world to live in st. Paul Minnesota and is 90% of the citizens the st. Paul they'll tell you the same thing. We got to work on our schools. I don't think that our schools are as great as they could be we've got to have safer neighborhoods safer streets so that we don't see the kind of problems in our schools with violence and guns like we have we've got a lot of things that we can do but it's all doable and fun for unfortunately. There are many who have had the resources. They would move out part of my job as mayor is to convince him. This is a good place to stay and also to let him know. It doesn't get much better in the suburbs. Maple Woods not going to be much different than st. Paul. If we don't take care of our problems you got problems in the Brooklyn centers in the woodbury's st. Paul can be is a great City. It can be better but there are a lot of people who are thinking about moving out. We have to accept that reality and and turn that around turn it around by providing the jobs turning around by making it affordable place to live Turn Around by making sure that st. Paul is safe. We continue this discussion in just a moment. But as promised we're going to go on another tour now the West 7th neighborhood this time Norm. Coleman is our guide and Minnesota public radio's Mary Lozier is the tour guide as well. Mayoral candidate Norm Coleman says the key to preserving West 7th and other st. Paul neighborhoods is keeping middle-class families in them for that. He says the city needs economically vibrant neighborhoods with healthy local businesses. If you talk to business people on Commercial strips, most often what they want is for the city to get out of the way that the Business Association we know what we need for economic growth in our neighborhood. And can you just step back a little bit a little bit less regulation a little bit less bureaucracy a little bit less red tape. Coleman says the key to solving problems is not putting money into housing. It's making sure people have jobs in any case he says the days of aggressive government housing programs are gone in the past government. Perhaps played a role. The dollars were there today the dollars aren't there and and and the taxpayers are not going to put the dollars there. We're dealing with a different reality today what Coleman thinks the city should spend money on his Public Safety one of Main campaign promises is to hire 30 new police officers the quiet Sunny streets on either side of West 7th seems safe and peaceful, but they're not says longtime resident Lenore Zellman. I've always felt safe in the neighborhood having lived here for 20 years, but it's the recent things, you know, like the drug-dealing that I think it has gone on in that house. You see more police has a solution or other solutions that you see well that we always like to see more police would be the solution, but I know it's you can't have one on every corner 24 hours a day. So I think I think it's the neighbors Banning together getting rid part of what we're trying to do with policing where I've talked about adding police. It is not to cover the city in a sea of blue but to work with community policing get good cops in the neighborhood and then have the community come together have the police know the neighbors have the neighbors know the police. I've got to rely on you and your neighbors to help me. I can't do it all by myself. Just as he recognizes his own limitations. Coleman says the city must recognize its limitations not send out false. Hope that we're going to pay all the dollars to lift up properties that that cannot survive in the market and that the city is going to be the solution for that if we carry that ball, we will not be able to do the other things that we have to do such as public safety. And if you if you don't have that component fixed these neighbors are going to die Coleman's platform in a nutshell is to keep property taxes down deliver basic Services beefed-up Public Safety and the neighborhoods will be fine. I'm Mary Lozier. What were you thinking Andy? Mr. Coleman keeps talking about what he can't do with the city can't do I'm talking about what we can do. I'll give you you know, a good example of the Coleman campaign. I think that it's really been a campaign that has trended on people's fears and this piece of campaign literature that mr. Coleman. What I think is a perfect example of this. This is a neighborhood where we see now and those elderly woman who's all cowering against an old abandoned building because someone back here is smoking a crack pipe and it's putting literature out like this and I think sends the negative message my question that I'd like to ask. Mr. Coleman is, you know, everyone in the country who's wounded to have some courage about it as taking a strong stand on gun control Janet Reno attorney general Reno was here taking a strong stand on gun control Los Angeles the mayor out there. Everyone is talking about doing something Courageous about what you can do. I'm talking about taking a strong stand on the guns. And st. Paul. Why don't you think that's a priority? Mr. Coleman and he solving st. Paul's problems not Done by pushing hot button issues talking about banning guns is not going to help the folks in those neighborhoods. Let's be honest and let's be real and in part emboldened, by the way, when I talk about putting cops on the street understand that I know the answer lies out in that Community. I was on Selby Avenue at the inner city Youth League when there was a meeting after the shooting of a young man on Milton Selby and after a lot of discussion about what are you going to what are you going to do folks turned around and started saying what are we going to do? And that's what it's all about. What I got to be there. Gary is to provide. Hope to those people let the community pull together. I will help as best as I can. I'll try to make sure he got the cops on the street, but we've got to work with the community. We've got to focus on the real issues not the hot button issue is not not you know, what is it? Whether that's a crack pipe or whatever it is. The reality is that there's some real problems. Those people are facing and they want to make who is realistically going to dress him today. And that's what I try to do during the course of this campaign. We've got a restaurant full of people here many of whom have some questions for the candidates Marie. Okay, and you Sarah from st. Paul. Yes, I'm from st. Paul and I'm a block Club chairman and EC and Paul. What's your name? Name is Don and I'm involved in the district council in the community. Council. Your question. My question is for the candidates is I see a lot of problems with guns and not enough gun regulations out there for people that even are responsible gun owners that have guns at home but not keeping them away from the children end up in the street with kids that don't know how to use guns and they use them like their toys and I don't even know how to use them. I think they should be able to take a test and strict laws on them and say you're going to have a gun around children. You should have locked up away from the children and off the streets and without killing somebody in the neighborhood. That's absolutely right. And I think that the legislature needs to take some strong action this next session done. I think that we should we can have a test for a driver's license. We should be able to have a test before you can have a gun. We don't have that right now. Do you know how to handle a gun safely that isn't even part of the requirements to get a gun these days and and Donna I agree. I agree now that we've said that Knowing that having guns kids under 18 having guns is a felony and should be prosecuted and that this should be requirements training Etc people to have guns. I agree wholeheartedly but I still got to come back to you and say Don what are we can do to make your neighborhood safe. How are we going to work with your block love? Because that's what you rely. Isn't that what you're really asking guns are part of it, but you want to Mayo who will work with the block Club who will communicate who will listen that's what I've pledged to do. I know that I can't do it all from City Hall. I know it I can't do it out of that team building. I can do it with your help. And that's the way we'll make our streets safer. And that's what I've been doing for the past 20 years as a resident and Frogtown. I've been going out there working with the neighbors. I've been given the black clubs the tools they need to fight prostitution. If I crack houses to fight drugs, it's being out there being a listener building a neighborhood agenda and going to the capital. All right, Marine, you're going to go to someone who used to live in st. Paul. What's your name Rita Birch and how long ago did you move about a month ago? You know, I'm a I was born in Saint Paul. I'm a Central High School. Graduate I've lived in st. Paul on and off for the past 30 years. So what's your question for? The my question is? I don't really think crime is reason why people are are moving out of st. Paul. I think it's property taxes and I want to know what each candidate plans on doing about possibly curbing it and lowering the property taxes property taxes. It clearly is what I wanted the reasons when you knock on doors and you talk to people about why you're going to little stay away going to leave they talk about taxes. They talk about schools. They talk about crime. I have made a pledge to say that if our tax base does not increase that I will I will not go to the table with an increase in property taxes. What that forces me to do is to have fiscal responsibility what that forces me to do is to realistically say that we will proceed with merger where it's appropriate on the county level. I'm not going to be fighting with the county shifting tax burdens from the city to the county. I'm going to say do we need to Health Department's probably not. Do we need to election bureaus? Do we need to police labs? We not I have to look aggressively within my own government with own city government. I met with Ted gabler the other day who wrote the book Reinventing government and gave Le said no MM we can wring out great in efficiencies in the way government operates and make employees happy deliver better Services delivered for Less. That's the kind of commitment that you need from there. And that's the kind of commitment that I've made property taxes. Yeah, it's not just saying what you're going to do. It's going to work on it and I've already gone down the city's budget. I've identified fourteen point four million dollars that I think the taxpayers shouldn't have to spend the next time around that's money that we can use to reduce property taxes. That's money. We can use to spend smarter in an investment strategy. It's not just simply talking about it. It's actually going to work and doing it. It's also not just listen to Ted gabler and then doing nothing about it. I've gone to work with the city employees already in this campaign. I've enlisted their support. I think mr. Gabler will tell you that if you got the city employees working with you to get out in front of the problem identify the inefficiencies. Our government and change it. That's the way you do it not antagonizing city employees and I ask a quick question before we go back our city employees paid too much city employees should be paid based on the growth in the economy the legislature we set up the local government trust fund account in the way. It works is if the economy grows the trust fund grows a city gets more dollars that can be used to help pay employees more the economy shrinking the trust fund shrinks. There's no money to go to the bargaining table with the pay city employees more clearly city employees do a good job. I appreciate what they do. We do have what more than 500 city employees making more than $50,000 a year. There's there's a see some city employees are paid a lot. What we have to do is have the commitment to look at what city employees make see what's made on the private sector do some comparisons and then come to some conclusions about whether people being paid too much. We have to have the political courage to do that to look at what's being preyed on the private sector see what city employees are being paid and then make the appropriate judgment Marie. We are going to come back over to our customers here. Your name sir? My name is Robin. Mr. Robin Robin. And what is your question for the candidates? Well, actually since I'm from Minneapolis, my question was going to be for Seven Seals Belton because I live in her area but to adapt it my situation is I've lived in my area which has happened to be her award for about 10 years and I've seen crime go through the roof violent crime. I guess my question would be in st. Paul. What would be your solution to this? You know, some would say call out the National Guard to Washington DC way, but to remove the criminal habitat right now. We have the most dilapidated cheapest housing in Frogtown my neighborhood on the Lower East Side. That's where you see most of the crime because the criminals tend to move into those properties if we reclaim those properties, but law-abiding families and him you're going to have a safer City in the short run here in a year. What could be done to alleviate this gentleman's fear now, I recognize you can't eliminate crime in a year, but in the short run you got to get back to some of the things that I've been talking about which is putting those 30 more cops on the street. And again, it's got to be working in conjunction with the community. I need you to block clubs. That's a big part of it and the short run. It's focusing on the gang leaders on the gang leaders on the one or two percent to commit 70 80 percent of the crime and the short run is having a police unit that deals with issues of sexual violence with greater sensitivity so that we do a better job dealing with rape and that we do a much better job dealing with domestic violence, which is probably the most If repeated crime in st. Paul throughout the state throughout the state and we that's the short run in the long term. It is education. It is prevention. It's changing attitude. We've got to get about the business of that Gary short run. I think that as attorney general Reno said again, we've got to prioritize the use of our prison space violent offenders need to go to prison. I'm not sure first-time drug offenders need to go to prison but what they can do is is a follow through with the program that I pushed through the legislature last year and that was to create a boot camp with individuals having to serve three years perhaps first-time drug sellers, they go in for six months. They get intensive treatment. They get their geds. They get a prospect of a job when they get out but they'd also know that if they were selling drugs, they would pay a price let it be six months in jail, whatever it is, but they come out with a little bit about training a little better education a little bit of treatment and a bit of hope for a better future Marine. Hey, let's go to you sir. What's your name? Mark Anderson down downtown st. Paul and my question is living downtown st. Paul. Sure. I see just as much crime as anybody else. Especially I lived very near nearest park and my question is that with all this crime that's going on and I would understand that there's a lot to be a lot of repeat offenders and I would think that a lot of the the police officers are getting kind of tired of no matter what the neighborhood is of arresting the same people over and over. Do you think that that is a problem and what would you do as a leader of our city to help us address that specific issue no question that the court system could do a better job, but you know, we're just backed up all the way up and down the line. We don't have enough prosecutors. We don't have enough judges. We don't have enough prison beds. When are we going to do something better than simply go and rest in people and locking them up over and over again teach them the how to be a better Criminal in prison and letting them out again and do it. It's time we started to get the root cause of the crime problem. Now, I don't have any sympathy for someone who's committed. A violent crime and I think that that's time to lack those people up. But you know, we're wasting a whole lot of time on the kinds of offenses. The police department are arresting people for the number of times that you have to clog up the court system with unnecessary arrests that people that we could do something different and better with by listing them in a community effort St. Paul Peace Corps. Lots of things that we could do to free up the time to go after the violent offenders. Let the question had to do with repeat offenders and I think it's important that's what we've got to do. We have to use our resources wisely. There are repeat predatory offenders. They are the ones that the system should be dealing with the other ones that we should have the long-term prison spaces for and for the others create the none incarcerate none cause of Alternatives the none jail sanctions, that's okay provide community service provide a whole range of options, but let's be careful. We've got to do a better job of weeding out the two or three percent of predatory offenders who are making life more difficult for all of us and and and and that's the distinction that we have to draw. You've got to be tough with some and you got it. Opportunity for the broad range of others the legislature in 1989. I voted and had parts of including the drug-free schools own parts of the most comprehensive crime-fighting legislation passed by the legislature the last 50 years. We increase the sentences for violent offenders for murderers for sexual assaults. We went up and down the line and I think that we're starting to see that we're not going to have the problem of people getting out to early anymore. It's time to concentrate on crime prevention and treatment and education that legislation came about from the cast force on sexual violence that I staffed. We got part of the problem taking care of an 89 with the census in 92. We move to deal with the prevention the education again changing the way people think we got to get rid of this concept that violence is the only way to solve problems gentlemen, we're about out of time here if the election were held today tomorrow, what would be the first thing you do if you got elected I'm home. The first thing I do is probably kiss my wife and hug my kids and take a day off and spend time with them because I haven't done that in the in the recent future beyond that. I do two things one deal on the economic side get the hotel in Town Square opened up go to Kurt calls and say lower your price get that open bring a little life to downtown to I'd meet with Chief in I talk about how we're going to put those 30 cops out in the street working with your block clubs work with the neighborhoods to tell people we will deal with the issue of crime in a neighborhood strategy to make our streets safer. And you know, I can I think the first thing I do would be to invite the black Club leaders the community organizations that we have in st. Paul to come meet with me. I would talk about what I've learned by knocking on the doors we build that strategy so we can go get the city council to be a unanimous voice with the mayor go to work on solving the problems of st. Paul. I really think that st. Paul has a great future. We've got immense potential. We got some solvable problems and I want to go to work solving those problems. I want to ask a follow-up question on the election because none of the primary candidates Have come out to endorse either one of you and in unlike what has happened over in the Minneapolis race, and I kind of want to ask you why you think that that is. Norm I think you got asked that and I think I think I think it parted I'm reaching out to the Pharisee voters to the minnillo voters. I don't think anyone has coattails and I think they know that I've talked to them and they and they're pretty honest. They're they're not carrying some Legions that are going to vote for Norma vote for Andy. So I don't think it's very proud. I haven't spent time soliciting saying I want you to support I need you. I will reach out to the moderate voters at John Manila attracted. I will reach out to the moderate voters at rape very first the attracted and that's really you know, what I have to do not worry about any cult of personality and they would tell you that I believe but Marlene Johnson is supporting me. I think that Ray Pharisee is listening to what the candidates are saying job. Manila was giving us ideas and I think that they're all still participating but I mean do you think that as a dfl endorsed candidate that you are getting the backing of other developers in the city? Well, I had the other day Bruce vento out there saying that after Janet Reno came to town and he looked at what Dawkins was saying about how we go about dealing with the public. The issues in our town he had a news conference and said I'm supporting Dawkins Paul wellstones coming to town this weekend and we're going to have a tour of the neighborhoods with mr. Wellstone. If you ask the st. Paul legislators who have worked with me over the years there supporting me. I think that we've got a lot of Democrats supporting daughter There Yet. The reality is is that Democrats are on rushing out the Attorney General has supported me Bill Wilson came out today and supported my candidacy. It's very hard to go against the party in st. Paul those people who do what I applaud their courage. St. Paul's problems are not going to be solved by a party agenda will be solved by working together Democrats Republicans Independents, and that's not prepared to do Norm Coleman and he Dawkins. Thanks a lot as usual though. The reporters get the last word. See Norm Coleman focus on things ideas to keep the middle class from moving out of st. Paul. I think we're seeing Andy Dawkins talk a lot about helping poor people help themselves. And for both the crime has been an underlying issue and Knockin seems to think that gun control might be the hot button issue that might Galvanize a lot of Voters Jim. What about that? Its present hasn't gotten a little more attention. I don't know if any large American city where a mainstream candidate for mayor is calling for a ban on handguns possession in the city. I don't think there are many of my real quick differences between Minneapolis st. Paul candidates. Well, I thought this debate anyway was much more low key than the Minneapolis one. Maybe there's a sense that things aren't quite as bad in st. Paul. The caramel rolls and it was a lively debate. Well, that's all the time we have tonight. We do hope that you found our discussions helpful as you prepare to vote next Tuesday and make sure you do get out and vote. It's an important election for our part. This is the first time the Minnesota Public Radio is teamed up with Katie catv, and we hope you've enjoyed our joint effort. We certainly enjoyed doing it our thanks go as well to the st. Paul Pioneer Press newspaper for its co-sponsorship of this evening's forum and also to our host here at Keys restaurant on Raymond Avenue celebrating their 20th anniversary our thanks for their very warm hospitality. And also our thanks to you the viewers for watching and for Gary eichten and all the folks at Minnesota Public Radio and Katie catv. I'm Maureen willenbring. Good night.