(00:00:02) Time now is 12 noon. This is Dan Olson in st. Paul. Welcome back to the second portion of midday our studio guests Bernadette Anderson the director of Metro youth services at the YWCA and director of the wise rwth aachen center for the last 16 years and joining her Patty teplin project staff for the Minnesota women's fund which organized a project that will be spending some time talking about welcome to both of you will be spending a little bit of time quizzing you about the topic that will be discussed in st. Cloud later this week reflections of risk growing up female in Minnesota and we'll be inviting listener questions to for both of you about this topic, which I think for the general public is just starting to gain some currency but is a well-known issue obviously for others before that though. We have something to set the stage a little bit so that we can save our breath for just a few minutes and get an introduction to what it is. We'll be talking about And that is the issue of growing up female. There has been a body of research on the topic. But some of the research is considered incomplete because it has looked mainly at young men rather than young women. Minnesota women's fund officials say an old survey is providing new insights into the social and psychological health of adolescent girls in Minnesota using data from the comprehensive Minnesota Youth Health survey, which was conducted three years ago researchers discovered that adolescent girls were more likely than boys to engage in self-destructive behaviors and were more likely to suffer from emotional problems women's fund officials say the survey strengthens their belief that a new strategy is needed to help adolescent girls develop a more positive self-image for just a few minutes here. We're going to listen to a report prepared by Chris Roberts. At the teenage Medical Services clinic in Minneapolis. Dr. Betty Jerome reads from a small notebook entitled. What do I think (00:01:59) about? This is a 14 year old now, what do I think about? Well, I think about a lot of things I have one year old son. And I wonder if it's (00:02:09) the notebook was designed with the hope that patients would use it to provide medical information that they might not normally divulge to a doctor Jerome says it has become a diary for the young women who visit the clinic filled with Tales of quiet desperation and (00:02:23) self-doubt. Here's a young lady this header fourth Didi, and I don't know what's going to happen the next thing, you know, it'll be AIDS But I live alone in a state far away from my family members or real friends and sex is the only kind of loving I get I feel I'm addicted and she is very high (00:02:47) risk while Studies have indicated that adolescents are feeling more stress and apprehension about the future than previous generations officials at the Minnesota women's fund say they have new information on the way adolescent girls and boys respond to those pressures three years ago State and University of Minnesota officials generated controversy, when they conducted the Minnesota adolescent Health survey, which question thousands of junior high and high school students on topics ranging from stress self-esteem drug use suicide and sexual abuse during the past year. The Minnesota women's fund commissioned a breakout of the survey data that pertain to girls and compared it to information related to boys Michael Resnick director of research for the Adolescent health program at the University of Minnesota says the results show that boys tend to Bond to Problems by acting them out in society while girls are more likely to internalize them Resnick describes this tendency on the part of girls as quietly Disturbed behaviors the quietly Disturbed behaviors included things, (00:03:49) like poor self-image and poor body image suicide attempts disordered eating stress and depression for girls. It was striking that the major health and social issues. They reported had very much to do with their emotional health and well-being as well as their self-image. I think I'm way too fat (00:04:12) one of a group of girls at Northeast Junior High School in Minneapolis. (00:04:15) Once I fasted before and I lost eight pounds in one day I wake up at even between 4:30 and 5:00 o'clock just so I can get myself ready for school and then if it (00:04:25) don't work, I'll be so mad that I woke up and you know, it didn't turn out the way (00:04:29) I wanted to then that's what makes me get depressed when I come to (00:04:32) school according to the survey break down. Were twice as likely as boys to experience emotional stress three times as likely to have a negative body image twice as likely to have attempted suicide and four times as likely to have been physically or sexually abused Minnesota women's fund director Ellen O'Neill says differences in socialization and sexual stereotyping continue to lead boys and girls down Divergent paths in terms of the way. They view themselves in society O'Neill says adolescent girls have trouble overcoming the unattainable images of beauty and Perfection that they see in the media and they still don't find themselves reflected in the decision making positions of business and government. (00:05:13) So it's those kinds of messages that were concerned about and so it's not a surprise to me. Anyway, that girls would be internalizing those kinds of things and saying if I feel I can be something different in society is telling me I can't there's nowhere to go but to take that out on myself and feel crummy about (00:05:30) myself according to the survey another reason why girls are far more likely than boys. To turn inward with their problems is because they have inadequate support networks to fall back on girls at Fridley High School (00:05:42) agree in never go to your parents when you talk about something because they're going to automatically hold it against you. I would never go to my mom to talk about stuff like that because she would tell the neighborhood. I had a best friend once and I would never ever trust her best friend again. My-my parents are forgotten story and my teachers I don't feel like they're there. I mean, I think that if I ever had a major problem, I'd be real bad trouble again because I (00:06:08) don't have I mean I turn around there's nowhere to go (00:06:12) to bolster support systems and to combat the messages that limit the way girls perceive themselves, Minnesota women's fund officials Advocate programs that allow girls at earlier ages to explore choices in their lives. They say those programs should provide role models for reinforcements. They also support a greater emphasis on gender fair curriculums in public schools and more widespread use of gender neutral teaching. That's they say when half the population is growing up with low feelings of self-worth. The problem-solving capacity of society ultimately is diminished officials admit. However, that the forces they're up against history culture socialization patterns are formidable. Dr. Betty (00:06:51) Jerome trying to develop a feeling of self-worth in young women is a pretty tough thing to do because once she has to resort to Sly Maneuvers seduction and giving in to make somebody else feel good. She's lost a battle (00:07:14) buddy Jerome. I'm Chris Roberts reporting and that brings us back now to our two guests Bernadette Anderson and Patty tatlin Bernadette. You've been working for quite a few years with young people young women. That's a fairly Bleak sounding assessment that was painted in that report about the Divergent paths that poison. Rose take is it as extreme and as dramatic as as it would seem to be as that report indicated. (00:07:42) I think it is Extreme and very dramatic. I think that it's long overdue. They were paying more attention to what's happening with our young people and specifically the differences between young women and young (00:07:54) men how related to income status is it (00:07:57) I think that it each income bracket. There's a different problem or a different crisis. So I think there's always a crisis whichever the income might be (00:08:06) Patty tattling is Project staff for the Minnesota women's fund which organized this in Tire project and which will culminate in a way I suppose in the conference in st. Cloud. Did your group also organize that conference? Yeah reflections of risk growing up female in Minnesota. Why now a conference on that (00:08:23) topic. Well, the women's fund wanted to get this data out to the public and they just this year. Commissioned the University of Minnesota to break out the data from the Adolescent Health survey on girls and it's been a little bit of time in the works. And now that we have all the information together and available. We wanted to have a conference to release the results and to get people together to start talking about the kinds of things that can be done to to help alleviate some of these (00:09:03) problems. Is it your assumption that what can be done is that the level of parents obviously but also Educators in how they approach young (00:09:12) women sure. Yeah, a parents Educators media all kinds of things in girls lives. It seems sort of converged to create some of these these problems that are going on. And so the there I don't think that there's just one simple solution, but I think what the report shows is that some of these Plums are starting very early in girls lives. So that by the time they're their preteen. They're already having these major difficulties. (00:09:44) Let's invite our listeners into this conversation before we get into some of the detailed discussion of what our guests Bernadette Anderson and Patty tatlin are here to discuss with us. If you'd like to ask a question of either of our guests call us in the Twin Cities at 2276 thousand 2276 thousand the toll-free number for those of you outside. The Twin Cities with in Minnesota is one eight hundred six five to ninety seven hundred one 800 695 hundred and of course, you can call us from wherever you're hearing us at our area codes 612 and then the 2276 thousand number. The survey indicates that girls are at much higher risk than boys for self-destructive Behavior suicide attempts Eating Disorders, emotional stress low self-esteem and for problems related to physical and sexual abuse Bernadette Anderson. What do you see of that in your work with young people are we talking about levels that have increased over the recent past or levels that are relatively stable for these problems. (00:10:53) Well, I think in recent years, I think it has increased with with t the television and the different types of models that they put in but I also think it differs between ethnic groups. I think that we need to deal with seeing where people at our ad and meeting people where they're at. And if we're talking about young black women or young black men or white men or women or Indian, it's all different and I think that it's most important that agencies that are working with young people see and know this difference and they need to deal. People working with people who know those differences between the (00:11:29) kids we heard in the report that young women especially as they get into their teen years rely more on friends for confiding then parents are not surprising finding I guess probably that reflects each person's experience Patty tatlin, didn't you find that to be the case as you were growing up? And why would it be worrisome if friends are more important than parents in terms of confidentiality. (00:11:55) Well, it seems like the young women and and the young men but the young women seem to tend more to have a problem in this area the ones who rely more on their parents or who don't rely on anyone which is it seems like a significant number also don't have anywhere to turn to they don't feel they can rely on friends either. They're the ones who seem to be more at risk. That's one of one of the kinds of Factors that that leads I can't say leads to that is that is associated with higher levels of risk for suicide and other problems like that people who they don't they can't turn to adult figures in their lives either parents teachers religious leaders who ever they just they're not there for them. (00:12:47) We have colors on the line with questions for our two guests branded Anderson the director of Metro youth services at the YWCA and director of the wise rwth aachen center for the past 16 years in Patty tatlin from the Minnesota women's fund and we'll go to the telephone now for the first question. We will put on our headphones though before we hear that question. Now, we're all set for you. Go ahead, (00:13:07) please I would like to address the panel with regard to the scope. I'd like to make some comments with regard to the scope of the the whole program first. I think that did not only should include school children. It should include women in general who are These problems it's in a across-the-board problem for women, whether they're younger or older that when you pick up the papers today, it's tragic. What's happening to a women? It's a general war on them. Whether it's rape or murder or salt or whatever it is. It's not the guys that have been battered and beaten and raped it's women and when we talk about pregnancy and abortion and all those problems that are women are confronting. It's not the men that have to face those things. It's women what needs to be addressed is that women need to be able to defend themselves. The mechanisms should be set up for women in general to be taught self-defense Judo karate, whatever it takes for women to physically defend herself against a guy that's going to come and assault at a rape (00:14:18) her. All right. Let's get a reaction from Brainerd Anderson and Patty tatlin printed in. (00:14:23) Well, one of the things that I think of is is yes we need The definitely focus on all women young and old but we need to quit band dating problems and starting with older teenagers to we need to start working with our children in the elementary school age young women so that they won't face these dilemmas that you were talking about. And of course there should be more information on how women can protect themselves at that age. (00:14:50) I gathered that Patty part of the focus was doing in the main because the data were handy for this particular age (00:14:56) group. Well, that's true. We did get the data from a study that was already conducted. And so that what that is what we had to work with but I agree that with the collar that a lot of these problems are just as important for women, obviously what the survey shows is that these problems start very early in life for girls. And I think that what Bernadette has said That Band-Aid Solutions aren't the most ideal thing. We what we need is to address the problems earlier so that these girls are not facing getting beat up or getting raped or I mean the study shows that that quite a number of girls by the time they're in Senior High have been physically and or sexually abused and sure that's a problem for women, but what we need to look at is how can we stop that from occurring at early ages? Because that's a problem. That's not going to go away. (00:15:56) It's go to the next caller with a comment or a question. It's your turn. Thanks for waiting. Go ahead. (00:16:00) Thank you one comment in the tape bothered me where the woman said that once girls start trying to make somebody else happy. They've lost it. It seems to me that since the women's movement began. There's been a kind of a drive to degrade what women have traditionally done and to say that The way men have always done it is is the way to go and I would prefer that to teach boys to care for other people and to try to make other people happy than to tell women that that this isn't a good idea. It's not a good idea if it's a one-way (00:16:44) Street. All right Patty tatlin. (00:16:47) Well, I agree with you. I agree with what the caller says and I think that what the woman in the story was saying was that women should not be taught to please others completely at their expense. A lot of girls don't want to say no to a boy who pressures them to have sex for example, and I think that was that was probably more of her Focus because they want they want so much to please other people that they won't say no when they should be saying, no, not that they shouldn't be caring about other people. I don't believe that that was her point at all. And I don't see that as a solution either and I think yeah boys should be taught more to care as well so that you don't have that situation coming (00:17:36) up or callers with questions will get to the next one right now. It's your turn. Go ahead. Please (00:17:42) Q my question revolves around the fact that parents and churches and other institutions. I think this is mentioned earlier are less able to to help and support young adults and young adolescents today than they were in the past and it also appears to me that in Minnesota. We have no law that mandates that schools have licensed school counselors that are at the elementary or the secondary level. Do you think that such a law which would require that schools have lice and school counselors would be helpful in resolving some of the problems that that you're discussing. (00:18:24) Well, I don't know of Allah that that says we don't or we do but I do know that most of the schools that we work in have counselors. And the only reason that there's not a counselors because the funds are short, but generally there's a consular and many of the agencies within the Twin City areas have people from different agencies that are said in those schools and referred by counselors to students who need to help whether it be young men or young women. There's a lot of consortiums within that system and there's groups of agencies that work in those kids to meet the different (00:19:01) needs but a counselor counselors are wonderful people of course, but that sounds to me to like a Band-Aid approach because counselors can't possibly hope to respond to the range of issues. You have outlined that young women phase we're talking about something that is within our (00:19:18) culture. Right? Right. And and that's true. I think that Not that counseling counselors having counselors isn't a good idea. But we need to be looking a little bit more broadly than just giving that kind of treatment to the (00:19:34) problems. So we have looked broadly we've put laws on the books. We have state statutes. We have Federal statutes which granted at a very general level mandate, for example that there shall be equality more or less in team sports. For example, just choose an area among boys and girls in schools. And so it's confusing on one hand to see that there is that kind of mandated equality and then to hear of report results such as what you have produced from the Minnesota women's fund that apparently the picture is worse and it has (00:20:06) ever been Well, I think mandates are one thing but but teaching people attitude changes are another it's a different thing to say well girls have access to basketball teams than to say then to put primary emphasis on the boys who are on the football team who get the attention and get the focus and the girls are kind of a secondary thing. Although the Mandate says that they're equal. I think what needs to one of the things that we need to start addressing is this idea of self-esteem in young women and get them to feel as if they are as important as the boys as if their issues the things the problems that they're facing can get the attention and that that the things that they want are being addressed the things that they want and need I would also say that young women don't necessarily have to be like young men the whole thing. They don't have to enter the sports in young men do but their self-esteem as Patty said it's very important and you need to start building that as parents parents need to take on more responsibility and take on the fact that that young woman is an individual and build her up, wherever whatever level she might be at. We need to build our young women up to feel good about themselves and help them to be better citizens and think about themselves and not worry about body image is so much as their whole person whatever that might be (00:21:44) back to the telephone for another listener question. Thanks for waiting. You're next. (00:21:48) I've limited my concern here to teenage pregnancy, which I have followed for some years in the Twin Cities and the split between for example, YWCA YMCA Several years ago in order to pick a cooking class from Verna my I had to join the YWCA and I said when can we use your swimming pool, but with that athletic background with the wise and the split, how do you get the boys concerned? And how do you contact them when it comes to trying to put a lid on the incidence of teenage (00:22:33) pregnancy? Well, sir, I don't think there's that split anymore as much as it was the YMCA focuses on the family unit totally and also the YWCA does we work definitely with both young men and women in areas of problems that they have and the YMCA has programs to deal with that too. If you take a cooking class at the YWCA as a man, you can also go swimming there (00:23:07) back to the telephone for another listener and it's your turn. Thanks for (00:23:10) waiting. Yeah. I'd like to just address the root of the problem in the last few decades. We've seen dad's completely wrapped up in their work and now the moms are going out and wanting to get careers and everything and everybody is selling their kids in the daycare and I think that's where both boys and girls are starting to get a lot of problems because they're in the day. There's a nobody's home to take care of them, which is the most important job in the world. And I think if moms would stay home and do that most important job instead of going off and worrying about their own careers and everything that we wouldn't have these problems with self-esteem and boys going off and raping girls. (00:23:53) All right Bernadette Anderson there you (00:23:54) have it. Yes. Well, I understand that that could be a problem. But in this day and time in the 90s where people have got to work to survive and generally both parents have to work. It must be necessary that they work there their whole lifestyle around their young people. There are programs that build the self-esteem of young people. They make sure that they get into latchkey programs or Day Care programs that relate to that and that there's time that the family can work together. It's not that it doesn't have to be a problem. You have to see where your your focus is and if your focus is on your young people. On your children, you'll find a way to make it work and your kids will come up. All right, and also one of the to address the the issue of daycare, we still have the problem that somehow boys are getting different messages than girls even if you have boys and girls in daycare together by the time they're in Junior High girls are acting very differently in facing very different problems. And so obviously there's some other elements at work as well that we need to address and these these problems are for boys that are acting out and four girls. They're turned inwards and where does that come from? And I think looking at societal pressures is one of the (00:25:23) answers back to the telephone for another listener question. And it's your turn. Go ahead please. (00:25:29) I was just wondering what the panelists think of maybe offering women's studies course. Gender studies courses in high schools for boys as well as girls because I think that would be a really good way to get start getting at the problem of you know, self-esteem among adolescent (00:25:47) girls. Well, I think I think that's one area that is very important for young women and young men to look at their school books in the classroom and see yes women are important sure that that is one aspect of building self-esteem. I don't think it's the only one but I do think it's an important one in Minnesota is making some strides in that area. There is a gender Fair Multicultural curriculum rule right now which mandates having inclusive curriculum, and and I think I think that's one area that is good and important one of the things that the Minneapolis YWCA that we do as we do have programs for both boys and girls to work on on what their problems are together Lifestyles sexuality pregnancy prevention drugs and disease is and they work together and it is working well, and he's person has a role in life, and I think that As people need to help our kids focus on what their roles are. (00:26:54) That's the voice of Bernadette Anderson the director of Metro youth services at the YWCA and director of the wise rwth aachen center for the past 16 years and with her Patty tatlin project staff for the Minnesota women's fund the fund has helped organize a conference which will be on in st. Cloud this January 26. That's Friday. I believe right Patty the title reflections of risk growing up female in Minnesota a conference on the social and psychological well-being of young women in Minnesota. And we're taking caller questions and comments. I have a feeling Patti as I listened to your answers that were tiptoeing around something that you feel is much more fundamental to the discussion than image and eating disorders and teen pregnancy. I have the sense that in your comments were talking about a culture in this country, which is obviously male dominated and which simply favors the boy The man over the girl or the woman and that at that level something needs to happen before these issues are (00:27:55) addressed. Well, I think I think that's really true the problems that girls tend to have versus the problems that boys tend to have are different and from this study. What was what has been reinforced does that boys tend to act out and girls tend to turn their problems in words and also that girls who are having one kind of problem are also likely to be having others. So a girl who has a negative body image is likely to have disordered eating is likely to be under emotional stress is likely to have Suicidal Tendencies these some of the problems come in a group and I think that it's very important that we look at the societal causes for those things because if we do just treat one problem and not Look at the other problems or not. Look at the causes of the problems. We're not going to make those problems go away for the majority of girls. Maybe we could Band-Aid a couple of people but I think what needs to be looked at are the roots and we need to look at our schools and the media a lot of girls say they feel a lot of pressure from the media. They see these perfect looking young women on the covers of magazines and movies and they feel a need to look up to that and they look at themselves. They don't live up to those images and they feel really badly about themselves. (00:29:26) There is a strong urge among all of us to assess blame for these conditions described in the Minnesota women's fund analysis of the report and I suppose a lot of people want to look to parents or the lack thereof and say it's the parents who have failed in this mission of educating young girls that they too are worth something. Is that something you encounter? (00:29:46) Bernadin? Yes. I see that but on the other And when we talk about the ethnic background of the people involved young men and women, I see a little bit differently than I do in the survey in the study young black men. Sometimes are not able to function and get the positions that young woman does. It would have the same educational background or the same level. It seems like black women can get hired a lot easier people are more comfortable. So then you have a different self-esteem and self-worth coming from young black men than you would young white men. There is quite a difference there and and we need to look at all those aspects if we're talking about improving the society and making it one beneficial for all the problems of young black women are somewhat different than they are for young white women and also young Indian women and Asian women. (00:30:42) We have a few lines open at our 2276 thousand number if you've been waiting to get in a question at 2:00 to 7:00. 6,000 we have other listeners waiting and we'll go back now to telephone lines. Thanks for waiting your (00:30:53) next quick question and then a comment why is it okay in this society and culture? Maybe you can Enlighten us from your work for boys to act out and and and why is that acceptable as opposed to girls who will tend to self-destruct and then the second comment is the last line of the report that was broadcast earlier. I heard it to say that once a girl has either had to resort to manipulation seduction or to some other means of seeking approval from others. Once they've done that the Battle Is Lost maybe I misheard that I just like to say don't think that that is true and I think there is more hope than (00:31:34) that. Patty Tesla you want to react to that as to why it's our culture approves a boys acting out or if not approves. It condones it (00:31:44) boy. That's a the why that's a tough one. I I don't know why I know that a lot of studies show that it's that it's more acceptable. I for a boy to do things that a girl might not be allowed to do. I mean the old double standard the young boy gets to go out and stay out till midnight and the daughter has to come home at 10 p.m. Or something like that and that may not be across the board in every single case. But I think the predominant kind of behavior is to allow boys a little bit more leeway and what in what they can do and studies show that in classrooms teachers tend to focus more on boys to give more attention to boys and to ignore girls a little bit more. Okay, anybody that wants to comment on that a little bit white males have dictated how the world's going to be run how else would it be? (00:32:43) Yeah, I gather that a lot of parents are philosophically just fine with the Notions that their daughters are going to end up in service professions as opposed to other kinds of employment. And that what you're talking about in the Minnesota women's fund analysis of the data and in terms of young women being empowered improving their images sounds good to a lot of people but frankly just goes against the flow of what a fair number of people believe is is and should happen to their daughters. (00:33:17) I think that has been the case and I think it's changing and that's the struggle that young women have is wanting to change what has been the norm for young women. It is hard for families to accept the fact that young women can do anything that - they would like to do and choose to do in their life and it's hard for the men to accept women as co-workers on their level. Sometimes men throughout this country as far as I'm concerned had been very chauvinistic and it's really hard for them to to accept women at there at the same level. Well, I think that's very true. And I think that that kind of lack of acceptance and the feeling that women are not worth as much either in terms of pay or in terms of time and attention in terms of focus in the media that translates into some of these feelings of worthlessness on the girls, which again leads to problems and even if parents are philosophically okay with service industry jobs and things like that. I don't think they're philosophically okay with having their young daughters want to commit suicide or go in the bathroom after lunch every day and throw up their meal because they don't want to get fat. I can't imagine that most parents are philosophically okay with that. (00:34:41) Let's go back to the telephone for another listener question. Thanks for waiting. It's your turn. (00:34:45) Yeah I from Lewiston, Minnesota here, I think. The problem that we're kind of forgetting about is it Society has no rules. No good rules. Everything is thrown to the wind and thousands of years ago. We were given rules called The Ten Commandments if everybody would buy those we'd have no problem in the family the good books that down The rules for the family with a man is the head and the woman helps to rear these children and they're given these rules today. There are there are no rules and I think we need to get back to the family and forget about women's live and who is equal news unequal and try to live by these rules and our children need to be taught at a real early age in the family and in our churches there that there's there are these rules and it's not just what makes us feel good. It's that may what is good in the world today. (00:35:50) That Anderson yes, I understand where you're coming from accept what happened years ago. When the Ten Commandments a supposing they were real strong as we swept everything under the rug women were being abused. It was incest in the families and everything, but nobody talked about it because that was improper today. People are more aware and alert to these things. And so things have changed the Ten Commandments are excellent. And I think we should follow them, but they're not dominated by men. (00:36:22) All right back to the telephone with another listener comment and question. It's your turn. (00:36:25) Go ahead. Okay, I wanted to respond to the women calling in and suggesting that if women simply went back to the good old days when they were staying home and minding the Hearth that the girls would have a better self-image in the boys wouldn't need to act out and so forth and as somebody who remembers only too well the good old days when most women did stay home. What I recall of that is not that boys didn't act out or that girls had a better self-image but that there were the wife beatings and there were the ripe sand and everything but that women at that point were afraid to speak out they were afraid to defend themselves and and and it was a shame in the community if you did and I can't help but think that staying home didn't solve any of those problems and and Taking women out of the workplace and putting them back into the homes, even if that were financially feasible, which it's not wouldn't solve anything. (00:37:30) All right. Well Bernadette Patty (00:37:32) reaction. Well, I think that's very true. I think that you know, if you look at times past rape was rape within a within marriage was it wasn't considered rape forced sex that kind of thing. So there are there are Changes in Attitude that don't have anything to do with whether or not the women stay in the home. And also I think you have to look at the fact that not all women. We're staying home. There are certain socio-economic groups that had the luxury of having one parent stay home. But but certainly a lot of women have been always working and have been heading their families for a long time. (00:38:14) There's almost an air of Crisis to the terminology used by the Minnesota women's Fund in its analysis of the data that has been supplied from three years ago. But even with the are of concern patties it still you're feeling that a large majority of young women in Minnesota are growing up. Okay that they're growing up in a mainly healthy environment with a pretty good image. (00:38:36) I guess it partly depends on on your definition of okay, if you look at slightly limited opportunities, if you look at the fact that throughout their lives even under the best of circumstances, they're probably not going to ever get the same pay as men. They're not going to have the same opportunity opportunities for advancement as men given the current system and and you know, that's that's not with change. I think that even under the best of circumstances you're looking at that and then under the worst of circumstances you're looking at young women who are growing up essentially without hope (00:39:18) what about the young women who are succeeding. I have a good image. They're headed in a good direction and indeed results will show that they succeed either in terms of job pay or however, you want to measure it. What are they teaching us about what we can do to help other young women who aren't Thriving in the same (00:39:36) way. Well, I think that's very important that women that who are succeeding and women who are doing what they chose to do to reach back and make sure that they help young women to reach those the goals that they would choose to reach and that's why I program should have mentors women have young people visit successful women in all aspects of the work field and see that they can do it too. It's very (00:40:06) important because it just a genetic fluke Bernadette and Patty that there are young women who are thriving or is it due to some critical environmental Factor you (00:40:15) thing? Well, I think it's the image it comes from home. It starts at home and starts in what kind of educational system they've been in how their teachers were and it goes right up where they have been if they feel good about themselves from the time. They're born. It's very important that they feel good about themselves. And I think that's very specific in families to make your child help your child to become an individual and start to self-esteem building as soon as they start walking think. It's very important to do that. And those are the young women who are succeeding. Yeah. I agree with Bernadette that that it is an environmental thing recent recent work by Carol Gilligan showed that young women who are given an opportunity to feel like they can express an opinion to feel it within a school environment in the classroom. Like they can speak out and be listened to Tend to do that more whereas girls who are not given that encouragement don't and I think that that crosses in all areas of life whether you feel like you can succeed or you feel like it's not worth it and I think mentoring programs and all kinds of things like that can really help give girls a higher level of self-esteem. And I think I think that's one of the areas it's very important. (00:41:36) Let's hear what's on another listeners mind. Let's go back to the telephone. Thanks for waiting. (00:41:40) I have a comment and a question comment. I wanted to make that it is pretty hard for a young woman to thrive if she's constantly worried about how I survive either economically or physically sexually through the day without getting hit on or harassed or assaulted. My question is what kind of structures can we build within the family and within schools and organizations to help young women blow the whistle on situations that are taking advantage of them the specific example, I want to give is that I went to a parochial school as a child. My best friend was Abused there was no place to report it to it was a Christian Day School in the principal was the person or molesting her. It's very interesting to me that we have a lot of people suggesting we go back to traditional religious authoritarian structures, but make no provision for dealing with the rampant sexual abuse that I personally know goes on in such structures. I'll hang up and listen to your comments (00:42:39) bring it in. Well that that's what I was talking about earlier things to happen like that and have happened in kept hidden. I think that that still goes back to the family. I can relate to being a single parent and watching kids watch what their parents do if you work toward building your lifestyle in a certain Manner and your self-esteem is good your children will then follow through and I think that that comes from being comfortable as you say the Young And who was attacked your friend or was raped by someone in the school system is she too felt goodbye. If we had of changed our lifestyle and our parents and said keep this quiet that's not something to talk about. She could have bought that out. I think that's very important that young women do that today. Don't be afraid to talk about what's happened men have put a stigma on women talking about those things as it was something not to talk about today. We should teach our young people to talk about those things and get them out in the open. And also I think it's important to remember that we can't just be teaching the girls that they have to say something. We also have to be teaching the boys that this is not okay. There was a study in Rhode Island that they had where young boys and girls thought pre The Edge before they had the educational component of the program. They thought that it was okay for Girl to rape a boy under a variety of circumstances whether she was drunk or if he'd pay for the dinner. And then after they had the educational program, they surveyed the kids again and found that that attitude had changed that most of the students did no longer hold that belief and I think that kind of change in Attitude can come through education, but I think that the education has to address the boys as well as the girls. We can't just be teaching the victim not to be a victim (00:44:45) back to the telephone and another question. Go ahead (00:44:47) please. Well. I just have a comment to make I feel one problem is that women give up their family name when they marry and it is sort of expected that a family name should be carried on and it's the boys in the family that are going to carry on the name. So it is very important to have a boy and I know of cases where if there are there's a girl they'll say well you're going to have another baby and so you'll have a boy you want one of each and and and It gives a feeling of less importance to the girl and this can be a very strong feeling if there are two or more girls in a family especially if there are no boys at (00:45:28) all Bernadette. You've got to look on your face. What do you want to say about (00:45:32) that? What's in a name? I think that sometimes we get bothered by little things and I think it's more important to teach your young woman to feel good about herself and it doesn't make a difference what her name is that she's doing a good job II don't feel that names are problem. I disagree a little bit but I do think that that's not a cause I think that's just one of the one of the symptoms of an emphasis on boys. Is that feeling that if you have a girl yeah, you need to have another child to make sure you have a boy, but I don't see that as being a major problem (00:46:08) about 12 minutes or so remain in our conversation with Patti teslin from the Minnesota women's fund and Bernadette Anderson the director of the Metro youth Is that the YWCA and lots of colors and we'll try to get to most of your questions. Go ahead. You're (00:46:20) next. I want to thank you for talking about this issue. I think that shows that we've come a long way already. I also think that reproductive freedom is essential to the status and image of both young women and and those of us who are getting up in age and that the reproductive education and alternative must be available to everyone and Order and not dictated To Us by men in the legislature particularly interested in your comments about that. Thank you very (00:46:50) much. Well, I think that reproductive freedom is maybe not the central issue here. I think what we need to do is to talk to the young people about their sexual activities and get them to a point where where that is not as much of a problem that they don't have to face that issue of whether or not they want to have an abortion or whatever but to talk to them before hand and do some education to teach them prevention, you know, one thing I get tired of listening to his people talking about choices sexual choices and stuff for teenagers. I think our number one situation in all groups in at home. And in agencies is abstinence first and then talk about the different things that you can deal with. But if you can work with your child and say, you know sex isn't that important in your life at this time? We tend to say sex is okay, but we want to make sure you don't get pregnant or you're using some kind of form sex is fine where it lays and where it's at, but we need to try to start talking about abstinence something that we seem to have forgotten about (00:48:08) back to the telephone for another listener question. Go ahead. Thanks for waiting. (00:48:12) I'm calling from Duluth. I was listening to your comments about the media being a major teacher of body image and there is one medium. Nobody has mentioned and I noticed this neglect not only in your reports. But in all kinds of Articles nobody seems to look twice anymore at the Barbie doll, which is exaggerated far beyond what any normal girl can hope to it to obtain doesn't anybody look twice at toys until the toy makers to modify it. Thank you (00:48:44) Patty Tesla. You want to take a run at that one? We're a little past the know. How old are Barbie dolls I've forgotten if they've been around 20 (00:48:50) years. I yeah, they were definitely around when I (00:48:53) was. All right. So you're of the Barbie doll. (00:48:55) Yeah. I was never a Barbie doll person, but they were around my friends had them and I agree that that that is that is a problem. And but I think that there are people who are addressing that who are addressing the whole issue of toys for girls versus toys for boys were boys are getting war toys and girls are getting stereotyped images in the in the way of dolls. And and I think that's important, but that's just that's one of the many ways the girls are getting the messages the Of a particular way that they're supposed to look or behave I'm not really sure where the caller wanted to go with that. Well, I don't (00:49:35) think it's too trivial to discuss the issue of play and certainly toys as part of play in terms of how parents regard children and what they choose for their children if a little girl wants a dump truck I suppose that's what she wants to play with and the parent will supply it. That's what should happen. You believe Bernadette. (00:49:55) Yes. I think that children should be allowed to play with whatever they choose to play with the problems with the dolls. I think has changed in recent years, you know it as a black woman 20 years ago there probably weren't any black Barbie dolls. Now they have something to shaded they have some different dials. I know I have a grandchild that her whole concept was not too she didn't want a black bow because all her friends at school had white towels. So that was a problem. We have to show our young people that Differences in people and talk about Barbie and talk about that's just an image. I think we don't need to worry about the types of dials and make sure that we make some changes and ask for it. I think it's a good question and and toys are a mindset for children and we as parents and as people in the community need to deal with that (00:50:48) back to the telephone for another listener question. Go ahead, please. (00:50:51) Yeah, I just want a cup make a couple quick comments. I'm a house husband and my wife is a doctor and we have a ten-year-old daughter who who uses her mother as a role model and and we're comfortable with this situation and and I don't want to put my position out for display really, but I think a lot of there's a lot of men out there who actually would like to nurture at home and who need to be coaxed into expressing this feeling and I just wanted to express that myself and hear what you had to say. Thank you (00:51:26) again. Don't think there's any problem with that. You should be proud that that you can share whatever it is. You have to share and its most important. Whoever can do the best job where whoever chooses to do what I think that's what's happening today. That is an improvement in society. As long as you feel good about what you're doing. I wouldn't worry about what the world thinks and I think the important thing is having that choice not feeling that you have to do one or the other but that you can do either one and be good at it and that there's no cultural stigma attached to doing something (00:51:58) different back to the telephone and it's your turn. Thanks for waiting. (00:52:02) Thank you. I'm wondering if I could have the panelists comment on the amount of violence that you see against women in films concern because it seems to be very accepted and children grow up seeing this as an accepted part of society and that really bothers me and also the use of women's bodies to sell everything from toothpaste beer two chairs. Being everything I guess my biggest concern is that it is accepted as a normal part of society and I'm concerned about it. I'll hang up. Thank you, (00:52:34) Annie. Well, that's that's precisely the kind of thing that were that were saying needs to be looked at violence against women is a very big part of the movies the / films things like that and that translates into a certain image of women and that is reflected in the fact that a lot of girls are getting physically and sexually abused it's not just a problem for adult women. It's also a problem for young women and that's what we're saying needs to be looked at that those images are teaching youngsters certain things about. What's okay. And what's not. Okay. I'd like to add that. I think that what we are looking at is a sick Society because those programs wouldn't happen if they didn't have viewers to watch them. And so we must Be looking at them and enjoying them because they're making money for those people who make them people need to start checking on these people that do these things (00:53:38) back to the telephone and time for a few more listener questions. It's your turn. Go ahead, please. (00:53:43) Okay. I have a comment. I'm 60 year old male. I don't classify myself as anything other than just a person trying to grow up in all this but you know, we live in a rural economy background and I think there's a good illustration here. We're kind of looking for Mechanical Solutions to this whole problem of women's place in our midst instead of trying to change attitudes. We hear people constantly getting up on the soapbox and same boy if women would only stay home with they'd only get home from that job and so forth and so on, you know in all the years that I've been hearing these sorts of things. I have never once heard somebody say these Farm women ought to stay in the house. They shouldn't be out there outside working off their fool heads. I know that they're at home. But is there a lot of difference between just being working at home where you can come in the house occasionally when you have to take care of something. I don't see that that's any different than trying to say. Hey people stayed home, you know the women stay at home raise your kids. I think that's just the (00:55:03) bogeyman. All right, let's get a reaction. Bernadette is handing off to Patty teslin on this one. If you have a reaction Patti, I think the comment was pretty (00:55:10) much self contained and I don't know I agree. I think that it's not so much an issue of who's staying home. It's an issue. There are other things that we need to be looking (00:55:20) at back to the telephone. Thanks for waiting. Go ahead. (00:55:23) Hi. Um, I wanted to ask question to the panelists about What they think about the way television shows reflect young girl teenagers, I mean specifically like sitcoms where there seems to be a lot of emphasis on the way women look or young girls look and whether whether or not there they have a boyfriend. It seems to be the plot of a lot of these TV shows like a comment on (00:55:47) that (00:55:48) Maddie. Well there there was a report done recently called growing up in prime time that was done by the national Commission on working women that dealt exactly what those issues and and it did show that girls in they looked at about 200 different Primetime programs and and they found exactly that that girl's characters were not developed that the main focus of the girls characters were on shopping on boys on looking good and that the boys characters were fleshed out and that they were real humans. Well, it's the same thing. I said earlier if you're going to watch it, they're going to continue to show it if we watch it without making any statements that we don't like it. That's what's going to happen (00:56:28) time for one more caller question. And it's yours. Go ahead. (00:56:32) I guess my first comment is that I think it's about time that this information is finally getting to the public and I'm grateful to hear a report such as this I'm 24 and I spent most of my adolescent years under great duress with eating disorders and depression and and a lot of verbal and emotional abuse and I guess I'm just real anxious to see that these issues are made aware to the public, you know as soon as possible and I'm wondering do you know if there are any plans to implement this information dissemination either through families or Educators or other public (00:57:09) figures? Well, I think both Patty and Bernadette would have something to say about that Patty. (00:57:13) Well, that's one thing that that the women's fund conference is about is to get this data out to people who are in a position to do something about it. Whether it's Educators funders government people so that the problems can be addressed in a systemic way and that we can start looking at ways to change the entire picture for girls and not just address it issue-by-issue. (00:57:35) Anybody getting the message Bernadette? (00:57:37) Well, I guess I think they are and and it certainly is thank you for those comments. And I think if you're interested that you would call the women's fund and find out about this conference another conferences. It might come up and information for yourself. (00:57:52) Well, you better give the plug Patti. What's the phone number (00:57:54) three three seven 5010 and it's for the Minnesota women's fund. If you're interested in any of the programs that they do that are geared toward helping to make things better for girls and for women. (00:58:07) That's a Twin Cities area. Telephone number area codes 612. This is the Minnesota women's fund. Number located downtown Minneapolis 3775010337. What did I say? Three 77 don't call that Visa. There's also 37. Can you imagine the person at the end of three seven seven? There's also (00:58:28) an 800 number for people who are out of the area and that's one eight hundred three to eight 4827 1-800-330-8820 to extension 1429. (00:58:39) Lots of numbers. Will thank you both of you for coming by today Bernadette Anderson from the YWCA organization in the Twin Cities Patty tatlin from the Minnesota women's fund.