(00:00:00) Forcement or some news making policies that he he seems to incorporate into his administration (00:00:06) or if it's a matter of (00:00:09) reading a book on television for 12 hours. Anyway, Tony Bose a very well known figure around the state want to tell our listeners right off that. Mr. Boza will be taking your questions. So if you have any questions for Tony Boza today, give us a call here at 2276 thousand if you're calling from outside the metropolitan area, but within the state, the toll-free number is 1-866-560-4440. Nice to be here. Thank you. I guess the latest thing that you were in the newspapers for was of course, the the firing of the rookie cop last week. It seems to be certainly be in character for I guess what what the police Federation might call your tough mindedness regarding the people on your staff. I think they would characterize it as a spastic hip shooting Style. Do you do you expect if you a lot of your police officers do I expect a lot? No. No, I don't. I don't think anybody in his right mind expects very much from people in government who are protected by civil of the Mindless hand of civil service. I expect a little bit but they sometimes fail to provide that and when they do I simply respond I often fantasize that someday I'll get into Private Industry. Hopefully not as an elevator operator was but as an executive so I could just call a guy into the office and say Smedley you SOB you're fired just to see what it feels. Like. I think it would be a lot of fun. So if your name is Smedley and I wound up working for a firm that you're connected with you better get out of town fast. Okay, but but you have said in the past that you have certain expectations of your sure I do I do have expectations, but they're low and then probably, you know, you want minimal performance. You can't expect much from the civil service system is a dead hand it is Because I cannot hire I cannot fire. I cannot promote. I cannot demote. So the reality is that in the main you can only provide them just so far. When you have the power to hire into fire to promote into the mode. Then you get the that most wonderful of all wealth generating systems called capitalism. And I really approve of that that is a much more efficient system because civil service is just outlived its usefulness. And now it is a way of freezing criminal cycles and incompetence in place and and you can't get rid of them. And the only reason I was able to give it of this officers because she's on probation and 44 the the year of probation. I have the right to fire them. That is the only time in their careers when I do and my view was that she had failed so I simply fired her are we hearing Tony Boza say that he supports the privatization of the law enforcement community in this country. I said, well, I don't know actually. I have said that privatization would was a wonderful welcome challenge by way of getting us, you know, getting us to raise our sites and perform a little bit better capitalization of the police. I think if you hire a police chief as a chief executive officer and say make a safer and do whatever you have to do. It's really a monstrous hypocrisy that I hear their hands and not b and not allow them to do anything and that's because you're just working with people and if you really can't hire fire promoted the moat they've taken away the positives and the negatives and and you really in a lot of trouble notwithstanding there were still lots of things you can do. First of all, the cops themselves have a lot of pride in their work and and and want to work hard so you wind up relying on their dedication and their stick-to-itiveness and their sense of purpose and commitment but you really don't have any weapons with which to drive them. Okay, and some callers already on the line with us. Was for GMOs of let's see what they're going to throw at you today. Maybe it's money. I hope it is. Okay. Yeah, you need your headphones on to hear the caller's. Well, I don't want to hear that. (00:04:17) First of all, can you hear through those (00:04:18) things now? I'm afraid to say yeah. Alright. Alright. Let's see how kind or unkind our first caller is go ahead, please. (00:04:25) Mr. Botha. Hmm. I was talking to someone on Sunday night who was a correction officer something. He said that if somebody gets arrested like driving or something they going to happen County Jail, they might they might be a chance they get beaten up or something like that. Is that true? I mean, I hope this isn't, you know, I really bad question for you (00:04:47) know, it's a wonderful question and you never be afraid to ask a tough question. I've never heard a dumb question in my life. And I think we are all together to civil and decent in the midwest we ought to not hesitate to ask tough questions the reality is that the share of runs a pretty efficient. Raishin, and he is responsible for the safety of his charges. And if you get arrested the chances are that it'll be okay. Also, we are now mostly tagging people. So when you get arrested or we do is give you a piece of paper and said you'd go home and Report the court in about 10 to 12 days, which time my you can mount your defense. So it doesn't even require necessarily that you being in jail for any period of time. Do you know if there is an effort by the sheriff's department? Of course because anyone that your officers arrest go in the Hennepin County jail, right? Well, not really. We now have a central booking unit which means that we are actually screening a lot of arrests and giving people citations, but then the people that we do turn over to the share of my experience is that he takes very good care of them. Okay. So are they separated by the segregated by age? There could be a carefully supervised that they understand the risks and I just think it's a pretty professional operation. I don't want to say too many nice things about the guy because I think he's running Office and I never interfere in elections, but the reality is that he's running a pretty professional operation. I really want to say his name because he is running for office. But but the reality is that you would be quite safe. Okay, two two seven six thousand is the number to call in the Twin Cities. If you have a question for Minneapolis Police Chief Tony Boza, if you're calling from outside the metro area, but within the state and you certainly have every right to call in even if you don't live in the Chiefs (00:06:31) jurisdiction, I'm (00:06:33) sure that he'll have some some ideas about rural crimes. Well good. We dispute that. Okay you exclaiming only take Minneapolis resident. What contribute is? Okay, that's it. We're we're here to mark them for some money in between. I guess. It's a good cause so cough it up. Okay one 865 to 97 hundred is the number if you're outside the metropolitan area. I've got another caller on the line. Go ahead, please. Whoops. We'll go on to the next caller slipped out. (00:07:02) Are you there? Yeah. Okay. Sure. Good afternoon. Good afternoon, Chief Bullseye. Good afternoon. The question I have is one that may have been somewhere in the newspapers, but I didn't see it. I was really the most surprising part of the firing of the rookie cop. Was that a rookie cop could be 41 years old. Yeah, what happened to the age? (00:07:26) I think Claude pepper took care of the age problem in this country by saying that you cannot be too old to anything. I don't know whether you're aware his efforts in the United States Congress basically to greatly liberalize the the whole question. So now it is liberalized on both ends of the spectrum that is to say there's hardly any limit. Although the president will soon sign a bill that will place a limit in police and fire the moment the limit on police and fire is 70. So then you have to work back from that figure such as to enable you for example to get a pension you need 20 years of service and be at least 50 years old. So, theoretically I agree. I think that all any anybody up to the age of 50 or probably sooner would be 45 because we'll probably go back to the 465 limit would be eligible for the department. So we don't you're right. She was not not young rookie. She was kind of an old rookie and but they'll but the law is a pretty explicit. We cannot discriminate on the on the basis of age and I've been through lawsuits on this and dragged through the courts and kicking and screaming and beaten to a pulp and have lost the cases. So here I am you like the younger rookies? Well, I a policing is a Young Person's occupation male and female and and I think it ought to be somewhere between, you know entering age between 21 and 31 sort of thing. I think it makes good sense and they also ought to remain in good physical condition because it can be stressful. It's a sedentary job that has Peak since And spikes of stress. So so you if you get overweight you you're susceptible to heart attacks and all of that sort of thing. Can you implement any kind of a required fitness program or is that outlawed by the Civil sir? Well, in fact the only two cities the only two major cities in the United States that I know of that have a compulsory physical fitness program or st. Paul and Minneapolis. So we do have everybody's going to spend an hour a week in the gymnasium on company time and and I will get to be a hideous torture. If you don't work out some at least some time the rest of the time because for one hour a week every week that's like hanging by your thumbs if you're not in shape, so so it really and we enable them to spend some more time at the Y and being a board member of the YMCA. I think there may be a conflict of interest will probably be declaring a stock split and a dividend soon being on the border of the why is a good way to lose money. You know, they're always bugging you for money. Well, luckily it is a noun Profit, right? Believe me. Well, he not only is it nonprofit but I just like you guys, you know, you're you're doing such a great job that you're always gonna have to bomb mug people for money. So so they're not giving anybody any money this mugging me for money. Okay. Let's go on to the next caller with a question for chief Boza. You're on the air. (00:10:24) Hi Chief. I've got to say going back to what you said a little earlier. It comes to a real shock to me and probably to some other listeners that you don't have the right to hire or fire or promote or demote and what I'm wondering is who does and and what do you think you can do about people who you think are incompetent? (00:10:47) Well, you know the real answer to that is that no one does that once you you get hired into civil service and you get past your probationary period you really protected from almost accept anything but the most egregious and blatant I mean if they come in and punch me out if I can if I can identify them they'll be in some degree of difficulty, but that's really about it. The protections of civil service is tremendous. It's like tenure and and it once had a good place. I mean there was a time when people Ward Heelers would be waiting for the boat at the dock and ask their Irish or English or German compatriots the raised their right hands and they will be sworn into the police force because they were relatives of some politician and in response to those spoil systems. We instituted civil service. It's so was a real reformed the very badly needed 80 years ago. Now it is the Frozen hand that protects the criminally unfit the incompetent the psychos in the criminals and and prevents the government from working. If you want to know why the government really doesn't work. Most people in the government will say it's money. There's not enough of it. That's rubbish. That is total rubbish. What are the problem is management and and first of all, we don't have very many managers. Again with and secondly if we did they wouldn't have the tools to work with and Private Industry, you know you I don't know you're probably in Private Industry. You can be hired and fired promoted it demoted you better do what your boss wants. Well in the in the government, it doesn't work that way if they show up with a body temperature between 95 and 105 and thread and sober and don't beat up the boss. They can go home with the with the certain assurance that they'll have a job waiting for them in the morning. And that of course is the tragedy and of you you only have to ask yourself. Are you buying any Russian refrigerators or any Russian television sets or Russian cameras or Russian automobiles. The answer is obviously you're not well why not? Well because that there they've got civil service for everything, you know, they even the even the manufacturer of automobiles and shows so nobody's buying anything that is made by those folks. Well, so they have a society where it's all civil service. You can imagine the crippling disability is of such a Cradle to the Grave security and we simply We have it in the government and that's why government doesn't work. And that's why nobody believes the government can do anything. Right? That is not a totally bankrupt idea. The government does not do nearly as well as it should which is why I welcome such challenges as the privatization of governmental functions. I once said in the front page of the New York Times that I could that I could put together a private firm that could do police New York City much much more efficiently much more effectively make it a much safer Place arrest more people respond to more causation more citations for hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars less than is now costing. You know that costing the city of New York. Nobody disputed it. They just read it and certain that's interesting. Let's go on to the next problem. So civil service is is has become a great problem. In addition to that. I don't mean to give a hole here hideous hysterical speech but in the in the police world as civil service commission's have become the captives of the Union's see the police. The ins with check-offs have gotten a tremendous amount of money. They can hire lawyers labor experts. They go to the legislature and they Lobby pretty effectively entertain the legislators give them support hammer away at the lawn signs give them money his support and they capture the Civil Service and they frequently become factors in Municipal elections council members Mayors and so on and as a result the police unions have grown enormously powerful. I'm a great believer in trade unions, but in my business the police unions are really running the Enterprise in no Union should be managing any Enterprise. They should be looking after the welfare benefits of their labor isn't protecting their labor their workers from the arbitrary and capricious active management and unions have a very important role to play but in the police world are playing at this functional counter productive role, and I think I'm going to just pass out because I haven't taken a single breath. We'll see if Get anybody from the police Federation calling in I don't do they listen to ksjn We Will Find. All right, okay, if they want to call they can call us here at to 276 thousand. If you're listening from outside, the metropolitan area. The toll-free number is 1-800-695-1418. Other question for Tony bozek. Go ahead (00:15:25) I have a question for you 20 when you speak of government red tape if ever thought of running for political office after your next term of Chief is up. (00:15:35) Yes. I have thought about it. My answer. I never say never or hardly ever say never because I've in my life. I'm 58 years old. I've seen too many events overtake me. My my answer is that I hope God has so constructed my life that I never run for public office. I have no interest in it. I have no talent for it. No ambition for it. I hope to serve out the rest of my term which has 26 months to go. And and for the sake of the police department and for the City of Minneapolis stop at that point and go on to whatever else is waiting. I don't know what what it is or what I will do but I don't think it's going to be anything very exciting. But I do know that for the sake of the city and for the sake of the department, I've got to stop doing this because there is a very thin line between stability and stagnation and I think you know when I say came here I said I could do whatever I can do in three to five years after that. I'll be taking money on the false pretenses and somebody said to me well gee then you say then I said, yep, I did. Well, what about it? Well I said I never will I never did say I wouldn't take money on the force pretenses. So I think if the twenty six months, I'll stop taking money under false pretenses and I do not anticipate running for any public office, and I hope nobody provokes me into doing it. Maybe being a book author. I would love to be an author. I've written a lot of books about 7209 books or some other silly number, but the reality is that I'm not a good writer. So that doesn't get to be a realistic Prospect and maybe teaching lecturing of being a charlatan expert witness that sort of thing moping about. Oh, maybe just doing nothing and going on the welfare rolls. You think you'll stay in this area no matter what you do. No. No, I don't necessarily know. I have a dream of retiring to New England. I've no particular interest in returning to New York. That's that's like diving into a vat of whipped cream, you know after a while Phil you've get filled up with a very easily, but I think you know, I've had people have been very kind to me and I've become sort of half-witted celebrity of sorts and but I would like to lead the life of an ordinary a jerk or walking around just like all the other jerk. And and and I want to be an anonymous citizen. So my best hope for that is some small village somewhere else. I mean whenever I travel nobody knows who I am. So that's fine in Minneapolis. I get a lot of attention and that's wonderful. But but I want to leave the life of a simple ordinary citizen. Okay, Tony Boza be around here for another couple years or so. In the meantime, we've got him in our Studios to take your questions. We'll go on to the next caller. Go ahead. (00:18:27) Yes, sir. Just like to compliment your number one and what you're up to. It's like to have your thinking if you would on an experiment that I believe 60 Minutes or somebody had in Kalamazoo, Michigan the merger of police and fire aside from Union opposition. Probably be pretty fierce in the Twin Cities. Yeah. I'd like kind of to get your ID on that. The other thing I'd like you to comment on if you would is what will the effect of doing away with this multitude? Of Municipal corporations we have in the seven County area and putting it all in one bag for purposes of police and possibly fire but police specifically. (00:19:19) Well, one of the one of the fascinating things about coming on this station is is that the audience is mostly made up of intellectual freaks who asked tough questions and Elmo's radio stations. I appear on I get I get a lot of simple questions very repetitive stuff. But here I'm always there like being asked questions that I have been thinking long and hard about and I've Sort of hope nobody's going to ask me like the one you just asked, you know, I mean, that's that's a toughie but since you asked I'll answer it then I think that the the way the police and fire the organizations are organized in this country is tremendously inefficient and wasteful and costly the duplications. Occur for example in my County on all levels of government would certainly argue for of for some kind of County government type of operation. The thing is that people then begin to look at the people involved in then they puke and they stagger back in horror the possibilities, but the reality is that you could have enormous economies of scale by combining. If you look at the police and fire, for example, you will discover that that fire people are frequently not doing very much and there is nothing to prevent you from training police officers to be firefighters as well. So the idea of combining them is a very appealing Wonder from the from economies of scale the efficiency the idea of combining police forces is a very tempting one Hennepin County is blessed with some very energetic talented young Chiefs. Excellent, but I can't see the reason for having 32 or 34 police departments in a community of just under a million people. That's your means thirty-some-odd police. Departments that he somebody answering centers 911 training operations purchasing physical facilities. I just think and an age that has a powerful centripetal pull of Technologies such as computerization and radio dispatching centralized Communications facility centralized training centralized purchasing consolidation of physical facilities all of that argues for for the economy's inherent in in combining but there are all of the political all of the political forces are arrayed against it. I see no particular Prospect. I would have been fascinated for example in the in the gubernatorial campaign if the issue of County government for example have been raised and to see how it would have been dealt with a frankly. I don't know how either candidate would have would have dealt with it and and I've never endorsed any candidate in my life or and don't intend to do so today or any other day, but it would have been interesting to see That intubated is a real issue. So you've asked a very very tough provocative question and and the answer I've given you is is politically an unwise want to give I think without giving myself too much credit because all it does you see is it gets it arrays all of the existing forces who would be harmed against you and and and those who might potentially benefit don't even know who they are. So you don't have a constituency. So you and Micah Valley warned against doing this very thing, you know, he is said if you want to undertake reforms and change remember that when you were recommending a change all those who were there who are going to be harmed by a can identify themselves and they're going to be very angry at you and those who might benefit to them as kind of a nebulous ephemeral kind of content so idea, so they're not going to be all that I can to for your cause and that I think is one of the problems with reforms, but the Is certainly worth considering and given the fact that and once again, I get back to the the notion the money is not the problem in government. The the problem in government is management what I have seen in now going on to 34 years in the government at all level, you know, I've been privileged to watch it close up. What I see is is always is not much passion for really tough management for economies of scale for thinking of more efficiency speedier ways to do things better more efficient. The government is simply not capitalism. It's something else. There are a talking about these mergers and and Metropolitan Police. There is a mutual Aid Society among fire departments is well, that's in existence. That's another question. Now, you're raising the question of cooperation between the agencies. The cooperation is unbelievably good a both between fire and police because I think we're afraid to the public is going to discover what we're really up to certain. To prevent that Discovery we cooperate with each other tremendously the levels of cooperation in this state in Hennepin County in the state of Minnesota amongst the police chief's in the police department's is unbelievable. It's phenomenal. They're all wonderful professional people and I know they're going to be angry with me over what I say, but I think they're terrific but that doesn't speak to the organizational flaws inherent in the system. Okay, let's go on to another caller with a question for Tony Boza. You're on the air. (00:24:36) Good afternoon Chief. Hi. My question is related to AIDS again. Yeah, and you mentioned that the president is going to sign a bill. Yes, and it's going to be a cut-off age. You know what the cutoff age will be? (00:24:47) Which well, it's a complicated idea. What what that bill does is basically say that you cannot discriminate against anybody anywhere on the basis of age. So no matter how old the person is you better prove that they cannot do the job, but they did exempt police and fire and a couple of other essential Services as well. Some federal agencies that do manage to get there or into the water and then they said that the law obtaining something like November 1 1983, which was when an important case was decided that would obtain in the state what that means in Minnesota. The Practical effect of it is appears to be all those as the president. I don't think has signed it quite yet and I've only just this morning as somebody to try to analyze it but the effect appears to be as I understand it that in Minnesota over coming years. It will appear that 65 is going to be the cutoff age for police and fire but it is too early to say in as I speak to you. The age is probably 70 because the the demarcation has not yet been made very very carefully and and I lost a lawsuit on that on that issue that that made it 70 but with the signing of the bill. I think it's going to revert back to 65 so that I think you can look forward to 65 being the cutoff age. But Claude pepper the 86 year old congressman from Florida is busily introducing one bill after another in the United States Congress to support, you know to benefit senior citizens. It's really a fascinating Kind of Revolution that he is spearheading the the growing enrichment of senior citizens in America and the growing impoverishment of the youth my preference would have been the reserve reverse because the youth do tend to Morgan rapin slaughter a lot of people and senior citizens don't so if I had to choose between the enrichment of one of the impoverishment of the other I would have reversed the order but called Pepper's beaten me to it. So, you know that brings up something you're talking about youth crime there I could touch on that there are reports a couple of years ago saying that well the population as a whole is getting older (00:27:00) now and so we might see the crime rate dropping not (00:27:03) in Minneapolis. We've been seeing go up. Yeah well That's really a fascinating fascinating study in demographics we and and and I order were introduced a some tone of humility here. I really don't know very much about anything and I sort of just kind of stagger and stumble and make mistakes. So if I appear to be very assertive and certain let me assure you that that masks are great tortured for drove full of doubts and struggling. For example, I used to think that since the average criminal in America is a teenage male who begins to get really busy at 15p ago moves up and activity at 16 Peaks at 17 declines that 1819 and very quickly drops out of the crime the day die get married go to jail get strung out on drugs, whatever they they drop off very quickly. So they Peak at 17. It is obvious to Body that the demographics are to look at the teenage population curve and if that is declining you should be in good shape. So I did and we were closing high schools in Minneapolis. And I thought gee isn't that wonderful. The teenage population is declining the probably high schools have been closed. I can look forward to Crime declining and sure enough in a 1982 1983 1984 crime declined and then in December 1984 arose and I thought maybe it's just a glitch but every month in 1985 it Rose and every month in 1986 it rolls and now it is 22 months and despite the fact that the teenage population is declining and I know that the criminals of the teenagers, how do you answer? How do you describe you idolize it? Well, then we had to analyze it more deeply and it develops that we were crazy to look at the what is happening to the teenage population where we should have been looking at is the male teenage population at risk those who At the crimes what is happening to them? Those are the lowest socio-economic levels the underclass frequent of poor frequently black frequently Native American what is happening to that population voila? It develops that while the the teenage population of Minneapolis is actually declining and continues to decline the teenage male population of those in the at-risk teenage male group is actually engaging in an explosive growth and fueling the crime rise, and if we don't address that problem now, these are these are poor people without jobs poor education born to teenage mothers welfare dependency, no skills, no advantages of any kind with manufacturing criminals because of social cultural and economic policies of deprivation. And and these criminals are by the time they get to 15. They start getting busy 1617, they peek out and And slide all the way thereafter. We can look forward to increasing or relatively high or serious crime levels in Minneapolis through the year passed the year 2000 because of the explosive growth in this at-risk male teenage population a large population of homeless mentally Disturbed chronic alcoholic broke and unemployed and to some degree in migration of people coming from other cities in the search of Hope and jobs and inclusion and winding up committing crimes and on welfare and in trouble so it's a complicated question. But but the fascinating how we got sucked into looking at the demographics and taking a tremendous amount of comfort from the decline in the teenage population only to discover that we were looking at a mirage that if you know that it is what we should be looking for. I would like to see the teenage population among stable nurturing homes. Black and Native American increasing and the teenage population of single-parent welfare broken alcoholic chemically dependent sexually exploited child abusing families decreasing while the opposite is happening could be the topic of a whole other program. But have you considered solutions to the problem? Well, every time I talk about solutions to the problems, I think people's eyes glaze over in boredom and hostility and their heads fall on the table and they create a great thundering crash and in order not to endanger my fellow citizens by having their faces fall into the soup and perhaps drown. I don't talk about the solutions very much because people get very bored you're talking about programs that have to do with them work their daycare centers Head Start programs a teenage pregnancy sex education, even the question of abortion gets Tangled in it abortion surely is an ethical religious legal question, but it's also an economic question everybody I ever Know whose child you had an unwanted pregnancy was able to fly them anywhere in the world where abortions were illegal. And so abortion has never been illegal in this country when you really think about it because if you could fly your child to Sweden or to Puerto Rico or to kill wallet or Chile or wherever it was legal. All you needed to do was to buy a plane ticket. So it is always been primarily an economic problem anytime anytime a poor young woman alone, 15, 14, 13, 16 years old gets pregnant. You have the beginnings of a crime problem because just imagine yourself a 15 year old girl broke not very well educated very not very competent. No skills. No job. No prospects. You you get pregnant you get exasperated. You're not you don't even know how to deal with a child you're banging them around and they cry, you've beat them. They you get careless. You you have your own life. I when I was four my god when I was 15 or somebody hadn't trusted. With a child I would have I would have said they should be longing an institution and yet we entrust lots and lots of people with children at the age of 15. That's really dangerous because that child is being conditioned to fail and to fail greatly being conditioned to violence being conditioned to dependency chemical chemical abuse alcoholism illiteracy frustration anger anguish. I think we don't begin to address these problems with with social economic and cultural policies that really begin to address the problems of the underclass in this country and including them in our lives. We're going to have massive looting pillaging burning writing and killing in the cities of this country before the end of the century listening to Minneapolis Police Chief Tony Boza guest in our midday program today talking about Teenage Crime and what prompts it taking your questions as well on a variety of subjects, whatever happens to come to your mind. The number in the Twin Cities is 2276 thousand if you're calling (00:34:05) from Outside the metropolitan area but within the state the number is (00:34:08) 1-800-695-1418 X collar with a question for chief Boza. Go ahead please (00:34:18) well, your discussion of teenage problems is more interesting than mine two cars were stolen recently in the newspapers had a lot of fun talking about the police Pagan them time and again and not finding out there was stolen are you getting better computers in your department? I hope thank you. (00:34:38) Well, I hope so, but we make mistakes like everybody else. I mean we are human. I'm not I'm not even sure that what you're talking about is a Minneapolis case, but that doesn't mean it couldn't happen. Once again, you're talking about efficiencies. I mean, if you asked me to monitors to go out there and give a thousand tags a day and take everybody you really can't afford to To spend a whole lot of time checking on on every single car most cars get get recovered. We have a pretty efficient operation Minneapolis of tagging and towing and when they get into the impound lot they get checked to see if they're stolen. We have a good computer assisted this batch operation that enables every police officer with a squad car to check whether there's a warrant out for you judging from the tone of your question. I imagine there is so you better close your blinds, but whether the car is stolen that sort of thing, so we're getting better at it and and we do have computers for it. But remember that a meter monitor arm for do with a bet with it with a packet full of tags really does not have a much time to check computers and check to see if things are stolen or not. So so it does happen but hopefully rarely, I mean after the first ticket on the you know, you shouldn't put another ticket on top. The first one the other by that point when you you give a car a ticket and and the next day you come by and see the same car still parked illegally with a ticket on the windshield, you know, you gave it a ticket yesterday. That's a good time to check if it is stolen or not. And I think a wise thing to do if the wind blows it away in another me to monitor comes along you can see the car getting a second ticket and that could go on for a for some length of time. But I think we're getting better at it and and judging from the horrified screams of all of their citizens were getting tagged and towed it Minneapolis and the recovery rate of stolen vehicles and I use of computers. My guess is that it's going tolerably well as long as we're talking about parking. I understand the City of Minneapolis is instituting yet another new parking system for are snow-covered streets you have. Oh God. I hope not. I haven't heard of that. But I think that they're switching it you can park on the odd-numbered sides of the street on even-numbered days are all who knows what we go through that here at the radio station to I think it's a wonderful thing to do, you know, I think your listeners at some point there when they're not sending you checks for all the wonderful stuff you're doing or to be thinking about creating a model snow snow ordinance that gets the streets cleared keeps the traffic flowing allows for snow plows and doesn't require a an automobile owner to buy a helium filled balloon, so they can park the car above their house where there's in anybody's way except perhaps it occasionally airplane or helicopter. I've never seen anything anything. So hopelessly complex in my entire life as a development of snow ordinances and I just look at them and and you know, I'm only 28 years old, but my hair is white and I've aged enormously mostly from looking at snow ordinances and listening to the debate about snow ordinances if you're suffering from insomnia, that is a fascinating thing to do. I mean you have your first night's rest in a very long time. If you can get a record about us no ordinance discussion, you have to provide the hours in Hours of training to your officers to understand where I don't I'm not aware that Minneapolis is actually considering a change. I thought that that that the system they adopted about two and a half years ago seemed to be working. Okay, I mean with the usual number of complaints and well, I think it's basically the same system but I all I know is that we've got something in our Newsroom about snow emergencies in Minneapolis, and it says new 486 Draught. I'll let you take a look. No, I don't want to you can't make me as cruel and unusual punishment. Let's go on to another caller. Go ahead, (00:38:41) please. Yes, sir. Yes, you're on the air. I got my ass. You recently got rid of a rookie officer made a mistake apparently at 41 year old. Yes. Okay. I have a question. Now this have in your jurisdiction. What would you do about it the police officer put in for overtime for Labor Day weekend did not work at all. He bought a new gun charges City for it. And then the next incident another officer is cuffing a prisoner. This one's a rest up in nearly shot the prisoner barely missing the other officer at the same time. He was suspended with pay. What would you have done about something like this? (00:39:15) Well, that's a very easy question to answer the answer is I don't know I would II don't like to make you're asking me a very very difficult question. And and before I make a judgment relating to somebody's employment or suspensions. I really need to get to know all the facts. I mean I look at a case and I examine it from every perspective. I want to get these statements of witnesses. I want to see the Of evidence. So I really don't answer those questions. I'm really sorry because the truthful answer is I don't know you'd be amazed how much information I have to absorb before I'm willing to make it a judgment unless it's on a cosmic question like like nuclear balance of Terror or or or some political question, like combining police forces or County government where I don't know anything about it and I can speak freely. But when you're asking me about whether what I would do in terms of suspensions firings discipline, the answer is always the same. I need to know everything that happened before I make a judgment if I believe the officer acted did a judge did his or her job I support them completely if I think they made are not a good faith mistake. I give them whatever breaks I can give them and give them the benefit of the doubt to the degree that I can now in the in the firing of that officer last Friday. I don't accuse her of acting in bad faith. She didn't act in bad faith, but she made him. Take that. I could not Overlook and let me say that it wasn't just one of those happenstance things. All of our rookies is subjected to a lot of stress and tension and we do observe them very carefully and if we don't think they're going to perform we frequently asked him to resign in this case it Rose to the to the level of a trial. So if they are acting if they're doing a job we support them if they're trying to do a job in good faith. We try to help them as much as we can. But if they act in bad faith and I punish them severely and that and so then that would be the question for me. Were they acting in bad faith if they're trying to screw the public somehow then I go for the throat and and and I'm very tough. I don't normally suspend employees with pay or without pay prior to a trial I extend to them to presumption of innocence try them and if found guilty impose whatever penalty so I don't I don't I think that suspending somebody without pay really is Is a prejudgment you're prejudging their guilt and disabling them from mounting an effective defense because they need resources to hire lawyers and so on. So it's a complicated question. My answer is I always need to know exactly what happened in the cases. And and and this war on my I wouldn't feel comfortable making a judgment because I need I need a thick packet of papers before me to study. I mean I brought with me to the studio hoping you know in between times as I said and waited to be able to read up a case. Now that's a case that I handled in June of 1985 now it's up for a peel and I'm gonna have to testify while before I will take that stand. I want to know every detail of that case. I want to be totally familiar with all of its factual. I wouldn't even discuss that case which I understood at one time. Like I had my hand but now I need to review it. So it's a tough question, but always master your facts you have to be in complete Mastery of your facts before you can make an executive. Of decision no matter what you're doing and that's now you're getting into the areas of my executive life. And there I always need to master all of the facts before I would make a judgment. Okay Minneapolis Police Chief Tony bows at taking your questions will go on to the next caller. Go ahead, please. (00:42:58) Hi. I'm calling from Bemidji Minnesota and I'm sitting with the room full of Tony bowls of fan. All (00:43:03) right, I was in Bemidji and July. I love that town. It's a great place. If you have a great a very serious problem that is I know the guy band of marauding elks is ravaging the (00:43:14) countryside Ziggler. (00:43:19) All (00:43:19) right, we're interested in hearing more specifically about your fiction works if you can give us any information as to how we might get a hold of some of your other writing (00:43:30) I used suffering from insomnia for (00:43:32) darling. I read everything we can get (00:43:36) God bless you. In fact, I have written two novels and they are not published. I read it I read them over. PBS TV about a month ago one of them and it took six hours and 45 minutes. I begged them not to put me through the exercise but it was such a good cause literacy PBS and great people. So it took me six hours and 45 minutes. I even asked him to read the novel before and I said, look, it's really junk so they read it and they said Reid is so I said, well look at these letters of rejection. I show them 16 letters of rejection when they said well read those two so I won't overheat in the novel and the letters of rejection and I'm afraid to tell you that that there is no friction that I've written that is in print it's but I'm still struggling and hoped if I get it published I will certainly how you write to me. I'll send you a copy of but the moment nothing is published. But thank you. The reason I don't talk much about my fiction is because I'm really a lousy writer and I have and I have the documents to prove it. I mean, I'm not a neglected right? It's alright as complained are neglected. Nobody reads this stuff. Everybody's read my stuff and they all say it's junk. Please stop writing you would be your default. You know, I'm I'm endangering America's forests because I write so much. I'm such a prolific writer that that every day. There is a team of lumberjacks out there just felling trees to provide me with material for paper, but there are begging me and not to Deforest the entire nation and turn it into a desert for the sake of the junk out of writing. So the reality is I'm a lousy writer but I'm going to go on until I get it right and I'm going to give struggling but thank you and and I wasn't Bemidji to they work me very hard. I gave a breakfast speech and then I met with the criminal justice student Bemidji State and I met with the criminal justice faculty. And then I give a luncheon speech and then they flew me back to Minneapolis. So I was there for only about four hours but those four hours they worked me very hot. It's a great town and they have a marvelous craft show and in July and I it's really great fun to get to know the state. They have they have a an anatomically imperfect oxygen form. Onion because kids were climbing up on ladders and painting a certain critical parts of its Anatomy. So they they saw them off as it were but didn't get any larger and and the ox and I don't think it's speaking with a squeaky voice but it is anatomically imperfect. So that is another one and last week. I was in I was in having the largest physically the largest city in Minnesota is having I think they're measuring it from the ground up. I was there last week to speak to some miners. I thought it would be as bunch of acne teenagers spastically shooting off in all directions. So I had a nice lecture prepared about flossing and hygiene and bathing and drugs, but it developed. It was a bunch of guys with dig in the ground for some mysterious mineral called taconite, so I had to switch gears and then I went to Medina and pass through Sauk Center and the original Main Street and and Sinclair Lewis and the following day. I went to Albertville and this I was in LA and Maple Lake so I get around the state a lot and its really great for him to see all these marvelous towns. And so I've been practically everywhere we ask you something about that book that you are reading didn't I read that that Jonathan lazier. The literary agent was was interested in pursuing a Hollywood TV docudrama or something from them. Yeah. Well Jonathan lazier is a is a very hot agent and I can I write and with tremendous prolific kassee. I can turn out a book in 30 days. I mean I if you said me down I could write 50 pages right now without the slightest difficulty. So he said to me why don't you do a screenplay. I got this guy and I said terrific and I turned out the screenplay and he's got it and nothing is happening with it, but I turned it off very quickly no time at all returned it to him and it was over and finished. I could write a book every 30 days for the rest of my life without the slightest difficulty. The only trouble is writing a good book and the problem. Yeah crafting that so when people say to me, you know, I'm thinking of writing a book. Oh I ought to write a book like Wry chuckle I'd say that's absurd. I mean, let's just say that is to say nothing. Can you write a publishable book? And you read a good book? That's the question. Okay, (00:47:51) let's go on to another caller. We've got about (00:47:53) 10 minutes remaining in the program. Go ahead, (00:47:55) please. Yes, my husband and I had a recent incident dealing with the police department about a year ago. He had his car broken into and his briefcase removed from the car. It was found the next day about a block away from our home. We just received this briefcase about a month ago. It's you know, I'll close to a year and finding out that they had had it in the possession of the Minneapolis Police Department for so long. We were wondering what exactly happens and you have a computerized or it was kind of lost in the shuffle. Can you comment about that? Why don't you stay on the line? So it's Chief Bolsa wants to ask him any questions. You (00:48:34) know, what you should do is write to me and I'll have it researched and get you an answer. We try to do better than that. But but they do make mistakes. What happens is we take in property and we pile it all up and then we go through it and see if we can identify it to the owner. A lot of it gets so auctioned off it gets auctioned off and the proceeds go to the police pension fund which automatically builds in an incentive. I think for the police not to find the owners to 200. Ethically. I'm not I'm not a very keen advocate of that system and we have we've since switched the pension systems. But anyway what we still do that and I don't think that's necessarily a good idea to give the bureaucracy a vested interest in not finding the owner of property that we have come into the possession of but we have problems in Property Management in and we try to do our best what you want to do in a situation like that is not to just Go right and demand an explanation and what we will do is specifically look into it and see why you why it happened and check the records and maybe it'll make us do better the next time but we make a lot of mistakes. It's a very imperfect world and do a lot of things right and you know, we respond to three hundred thousand calls a year and we get complaints and about 300 of them. Well, nobody ever says it wasn't anything about the other two hundred ninety nine thousand seven hundred so but do you entitled to an explanation in a better one that I'm giving you now I will specifically look into it. If you write to me and I'll give you a reason to answer (00:50:11) I have also another comment. I'd like to I read an article saying that the increase that their perspective to see and Minneapolis is because of the influx of people from Chicago area. They're coming to Minnesota for better welfare benefits. Do you agree with that or (00:50:28) well, I did mention that I said that the Rising the rising levels of criminality in Minneapolis are probably due to three factors one and maybe I never got to the third 010 was the explosive growth of the teenage male population in the at-risk group 2 is the large population of floating homeless mentally Disturbed chronic alcoholic and third is the in migration of people coming here for they come here for jobs and in search of Hope from Gary Indiana Chicago Detroit and so on and wind up on welfare, they don't have any skills and wind up frequently committing crimes. I don't think anybody really specifically comes here for the welfare benefits. I I think they come here in the search of Hope and wind up on welfare. Now the welfare benefits in Minneapolis are better demonstrable in dramatically better than those in Mississippi, but I don't know how much better they are than from those in in Illinois. And and I think what we need is national standards, there is no reason why Mississippi for example should be pushing its citizens out because they're giving them a hundred and twenty eight dollars a month when we give them four hundred dollars a month, but that's a bad mistake. The immigration is of people in search of Hope and safety and a better life who frequently wind up. It just get a kind of screwed up. Okay, we've got time for maybe one or two more callers for with questions for Tony Boza and you're on the air. Go ahead, please. (00:51:48) Thank you. God Tony. I want to commend you on this because you seem to so or inspire a lot of restraint in tragic situations like this what tell me to what extent will you cooperate with nonviolent protest groups in order to minimize unnecessary injuries, or does the police strategy necessarily have to remain somewhat (00:52:13) secret? No, no. No, I think when people are demonstrating the police's the guarantees of the United States Constitution have an absolute obligation to ensure the safety of the participants attended a demonstration yesterday at the federal building with 54 people. Arrested I I was delighted that Mother's thought it perfectly safe to bring little children along. I counted the must have been 20 30 little children of all ages now a mother and these are mostly pretty well-informed middle-class intelligent Highly Educated people and they calculated the risk. So the reality is that they went to the old Federal Building and Washington Avenue and Third Avenue South and had a demonstration. We arrested 54. We had a large number of police there but everything went really very peacefully, I believe very strongly in protecting the rights of the demonstrators the righteous of those they are demonstrating against and the rights of the of the passers-by and ordinary citizens as they go about their business and I hope that that we can continue to do this. This is something I spent a lot of time and energy on and to make certain that these things go well peacefully so the The mothers saw fit to bring a little children to that demonstration yesterday was to me a very heartening piece of evidence and I haven't commented about that to anyone until this moment but no it is not it is I think the most of the secrets in government is simply an attempt by us Petty bureaucrats from how letting you discover our pettifogging ways and and our superannuated Styles in the fact that we don't know where we're doing half the time I only about three or four percent of the things that are kept secret ought to be kept secret, you know, Anakin not screw up a continuing investigation so that we are some guilty person gets away identifying the child victim of a crime identifying a sex victim of a crime these things should not these are legitimate Secrets, but I can't think of very many reasons for secrecy and government except to cover our flank sand to prevent you from seeing what hideous little creep. We really are behind the screens. So it is not a secret. It's good of you to to to allow me that that protection but it know we are very careful about demonstrations and and I have to apologize for giving such long-winded answers because I think the questions are better than the answers and I wish we had taken more of them. Well, you're going to have about three minutes or so to answer the next question. So let's answer. Sorry. Shoot. That's all right. I think that our listeners have heard your thoughts on a number of different topics today. And this will be the last one. So go ahead please with your question. (00:55:09) Yes. You said that the government is like the private sector and maybe it ought to be managed better more tightly. One of the reasons why government isn't like that is because the government and police being a very prime example can do things to you in a way that the private sector can't we have a lot more flexibility a lot more. Freedom in that regard how when you're privatizing of the New York City Police Force have been controlled and responsible to the public. Also. If you have time, could you say something about the case of that young man in Texas when you were on TV when CCO I think did the report you were very sure that he was you'll even the evidence tended to suggest some question about that. And do you still feel that way and how could you be so (00:55:56) certain? Okay, I'll try to answer as rapidly as I can. First of all the privatization of government does not mean you cannot hold it accountable. You cannot hold it to standards. As a matter of fact, I would submit to you that you could you could hold a police to a much higher standard of behavior of you privatize it if I had the right to fire her and hire promote and demote I could be very much more responsible for the behavior at this moment. I can always say we have a police officer out there. I try to fire he's involved in all kinds of problems bad checks try to assault his wife drugs all kinds of nonsense name is Dennis. Let's drum. I tried to fight him. I can't fight him suppose. He commits some hideous offense, which is entirely capable of doing what can I can always say to you. Hey, I don't have any. I've tried to fire the guy I bring him up on charges every week. I discipline them. I can't forgive him the store. There's no in a says. I'm deprived of accountability the minute the system. I'm suggesting to you would hold me much more accountable for the behavior of the police or if they misbehaved I wouldn't be able to say well gee if you allow me to find them I could get rid of them. They say Hey, you can fire them higher than promote them to modem and they misbehave whose responsibility is it the answer is yours and that's why we hire and Fire Chief Executive offices in Private Industry. And the bureaucracy goes on forever the second case involved the charge against mr. Folsom in Texas and I re I reviewed the case and looked at the transcript and and and was convinced of his guilt. Does that mean that I never had any doubts positively not Remember that our system of justice requires us to prove people. Guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt not beyond a shadow of a doubt. I think that that the evidence was sufficiently persuasive to me to give me the reasonable belief that he was guilty and that's all I said and and that's what I still believe. Obviously they shot holes in the in the in the in the case, but I don't I'm not persuaded that they demand demonstrated beyond beyond any doubt that the innocence of the individual it's an imperfect business. If you want to still water looked at any case of a prisoner currently in Stillwater's I speak to you I'm sure you could you could develop imperfections in it. I don't think anybody in Stillwater has been proved guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt but they have improved guilty Beyond A Reasonable Doubt and I think what is the Reasonable Doubt then becomes the area of contention and I reasonably believed him to be guilty and still do And with that we must end this program Minneapolis Police Chief Tony Boza. Thanks so much for being with us this afternoon pleasure. Tell the call us to keep up with some funds and help the station. We sure will.