(00:00:00) Film and video have come a long way since the days when artists in film and video had to clunk around with lots of heavy equipment film and video technology has been reduced in size and some cases in cost today. We are going to hear more about the state of the art of film and video and with us on midday is mpr's Nancy Fusion to introduce the topic Nancy. Thank you, Dan. You stole my opening sentence? Oh good. Yes equipment and Technology have become on their way to reasonably priced in this country and with it rowing interest in film and video production on not only a rather large scale level, but on small community-based levels and oftentimes to assist the newcomers in the field media Center's are springing up right and left and Minnesota in the Twin Cities area. No exception to that Trend. We've got two guests with us today who are heading area centers metro area centers Sally Fisher who is general manager of the university community video Center in Minneapolis. A palace she hails from Lately from New Haven just outside Derby Connecticut where she was heading a cable TV and video Access Center. She was teaching people to produce programs. She has also been a chairperson of the national Federation of local cable programmers a relatively new organization in this country. Sally Dixon is acting executive director of film in the cities and she has come to the cities also within the last few months after serving five years at the Museum of Art at Carnegie Institute in Pittsburgh, and she also had a three-year appointment to a National Endowment for the Arts panel on media arts. Welcome. Both of you both Sally's we have mentioned that this is a growing Trend in the country and I'm wondering in your few months of having been in the cities and you both have income from the East Coast whether you can make an assessment as to how far along the metro area the Twin Cities and the state of Minnesota is in this kind of trend Sally (00:01:56) Fisher first. Well in many ways Is the Twin Cities area is much further along in video than number of places on the East Coast where people may expect that that things would be really hopping the support that exists in this area for the kind of work that we're doing is tremendous and university community video up until fairly recently has been a well-kept secret. Nationally there were not that many people. I think that really knew about the place and to me in light of the number of video centers. I've seen around the country and the kind of work that's being done. I think you see V is one of the best if not the best in that mean that very seriously it's just a phenomenal situation that exists here in the Twin Cities with support for this kind of thing (00:02:44) Sally Dixon you're working in film right? It's interesting to hear you say that Sally in that film in the cities is sort of in the same situation except that interestingly enough. It was one of the first media centers in Country to develop out of this rash of Independence or people wanting to work on their own outside of commercial situations and yet coming from elsewhere. I hadn't heard of it either and I wondered why when I got here and found what an incredible comprehensive job it was doing well. I knew before I got here via the Nea really it has a good reputation, but I wondered why I hadn't heard of it sooner and I think part of the reason is that that both of these places maybe were putting their energy toward developing what was going on here, you know, tending their own garden lives and doing it extremely well because now they're very sophisticated full-fledged with a comprehensive Outreach not only in the Twin Cities Community but out in the states, and and now nationally as well is that to say that media centers elsewhere are not tending their own (00:03:55) Gardens. Um, well it's interesting. There are a lot of well-known media centers around the country. And I this area I'm speaking mostly about video and you hear great things, you know, and you people are always talking and then you actually get to visit the center or you see some of the work coming out of there and it's nowhere near the level of what you expected from what you had heard whereas with you CV which I found out about just a little bit over a year ago. I hadn't heard about it at all. And then I saw programs that were being produced by community and by the staff and was just amazed at the quality of the programming so people are doing things certainly in their growing but I think that you see V really was was doing a good job and just worrying about its own growth and how it could serve this area and not thinking about how it can make an impression nationally and I think that a lot of groups don't always do (00:04:50) that now I would I would agree with that completely. I also think we have different roles. That is different centers have different roles. And it seems to me to be the role of some centers to be nationally involved in things that are of concern to the individual centers, but are being dealt with on a national level and others seemed then be as I said tending their own Gardens and at different times. Maybe our role is now to become more visible nationally and share what we've what we've built and developed in that tending. Do you think that the trend really can be pegged? Mm? Well for the most part to the economics of film and video production today the proliferation of really reasonably priced equipment (00:05:36) well with video certainly that's the case when portable video equipment small-format came onto the market in the 60s. It was in many ways a very revolutionary kind of tool because up until that point in time if you wanted to do any kind of Television you are really stuck with Of the studio operation and very heavy equipment and you really couldn't carry things around and it was all very very expensive beyond the means of an independent or even a nonprofit organization many times and with the proliferation of the half inch format portable video equipment, which you could purchase everything you needed to do what you needed to do for under $2,000 and you could reuse video tape over and over again unlike film. It just became economically very feasible for people to start using that and also with cable television the problem that some people have trying to get programs and broadcast doesn't exist with cable. The technical standards are not nearly as rigid so that you could use this equipment and program, you know Cable Systems and there was you know, people just kind of took hold of it and went to town (00:06:49) in film. We're seeing more and more independent production units choosing not to work on the coasts to go elsewhere and Minneapolis and st. Paul is a good example. We have a couple movies right now being shot on location is economics of part of that. I think in that case you're talking about commercial Productions, really and I think there is a wish if not a trend to move out of Hollywood to decentralize that situation and dip into other parts of the country. It's Hollywood. I'm sure we'll always go on in terms of the industry, but I think there are people who want to move away simply because there is money available in other parts of the country and to to get that to to bring that money to Hollywood's and impossibility. So you go to the mountain instead and I think that's probably the case also it's a very stimulating place and the pressure of Hollywood is a an incredible thing many. I can't imagine that anyone would not like to get out of that pressure and into a place like the Twin Cities for instance you talk about financial support and we have had in the past few days. It's Communications act signed in Washington. Do you see anything in that act that may bode? Well for more Community film and video centers I have absolutely yes. I would hope that it can't be anything but good what the ACT basically says is that half of all all funds must go for programming and half of the programming funds must go to Independent work. And of course what this what we're hoping this will mean yes is that there will be an increased demand for the work of Independence and at present. There's not that great a market. Most television stations have it pretty well sewn up within their own their own production Crews. So hopefully this will be money freed up to support the making of new films and new (00:08:44) videotapes. Yes, and selling programming to public television isn't always that easy and one of the problems always is that they claim not to have Of money to really pay you for what the programming is worth and hopefully this will change with all this money coming down the pike. Well also (00:09:05) with all that money coming down the pike and some of it going through State Arts (00:09:08) board (00:09:11) formulas. Will that change to will there be a do you think there is a need for a change on the part of Arts board officials in how they view film and video projects and in terms of awareness. Yes. Absolutely. I think it is happening here. I last year. Apparently there was a great deal of talk with the state Arts board here. And from what I can understand they were very responsive and have made Moves now to improve the situation and hopefully will clear it up for at least Minnesota, which is of course their their tasks and to educate the entire state to (00:09:48) Media. Yeah oftentimes State Arts boards. Don't quite share the same vision that the National Endowment for the Arts. As in terms of media being art radio television and film they think sculpture and painting would have you and they don't look at the tools that we're using is artists tools. And so that's a really, you know important thing for the state Arts boards to be developing that kind of (00:10:14) awareness these that a function just of the Youth of film and video art That the lack of awareness. Yes. Oh, I think so. I think so and it's more advanced in some parts of the country where there's been a proliferation of the product as it were of these artists, but it's here certainly in this Century the technological it's the one instance in the Arts where you wear it takes a technological invention plus the artists I that combination which is typically 20th century and to me a perfect union of those two things and there's no question but that it will be the artists tools of the future. I found though in these early days a Prejudice on the part of some visual artists that hooking up electronic media just is not art. I think this was true with photography when the camera came out sure. I think you know any (00:11:12) any new medium of course takes time to become accepted and people often. I have something to lose if that new medium is accepted, you know to fix their work and some people just don't want to change or refuse to allow others to change basically, but I think that at least nationally, you know video and film or viewed is as arts and that's important because ultimately if it's okay nationally and it gets down to us, you know some time sooner or later. (00:11:44) Let's talk about your individual organizations and some of the directions that may be taken in the coming months Sally Fisher first university community video offers access for the whole Community but being located at the University, does that cause some problems? (00:12:01) Well, I don't think it really causes problems. We are an independent nonprofit organization university community video is a service of an independent nonprofit corporation known as University student telecommunications corporation and that Corporation receives some Funding from student fees not from the University itself, but from student fees money. So we partially subsidized by that and we make a very strong effort to serve students on the U of M campus, you know with video facilities. However, when you see V began the intention was not just students but the community as well and in a way, you know, you kind of develop a split personality around that but it's very important because it gets the students in the community interacting they both come and use the same facility share the same equipment often times work together on Productions so that it's actually become a really nice blend where I think potentially, you know, it didn't it didn't have to work out that way. But the way the staff has worked, you know, it is it is just grown into an ice floe with community and students. We we have a pretty fair number of community people coming in and we're planning to to move to another facility. In the winter, which I think will make our services even more accessible to the community, but we will still be located in the campus area. So we will be able to serve the students as well. (00:13:30) If I would just want to learn about video. We could I come to the center. (00:13:35) I want to run a camera. Yes. We have a number of different kinds of workshops. We start you out. Usually with a basic Porta pack Workshop, which teaches you how to operate the portable video equipment and how to make a video tape. You can also learn editing you can go into more intensive kind of production Workshop. You can learn how to use 3/4 inch color video equipment. We have technical workshops and other kinds of specialized workshops so that you can come in and take a workshop and do one tape or you can start out a career essentially as a tape maker through the center. So we serve people who are absolute beginners who know nothing as well as people who have been doing it for a long time and are pretty. It's (00:14:20) for those Advanced people. Do you offer services of distribution as (00:14:23) well? We distribute programs that are produced through the video Center. We have a catalog of programs that have been done through the past that mailed out and people rent and purchase tapes from us. So we do have a distribution system. (00:14:38) Yes. Does it go beyond the region in many cases (00:14:43) the tape? Yes. Yes. We have tape borders from all over the place from the US government to other video centers in different parts of the country to various groups that would like to use one of our tapes to deal with the specific issue that they might be working on in their Community. Do you (00:15:01) foresee more of an emphasis on production or on distribution in the coming year? (00:15:06) Well, I thought I would like to see our distribution grow and see some improvements in the way that we can work on distribution. I think that's very important. I think that one of the biggest problems that Video makers and filmmakers face is the distribution of their programs and not only how to get them distributed. But how did have that happen without the producer being ripped off? And so we're kind of doing a lot of work in this area to see how we can improve (00:15:34) that Sally Dixon so far as film in the cities is concerned. Are you basically set up for the same kind of educational programs educational and Access Center the same the making making end of it we deal with film and photography however at film in the cities and have a gallery in our building at the corner of University and Raymond that at this point has a Shoujo your Margaret Cameron's work. She's a Victorian woman photographer. Obviously one of the very best of that time that opens this Monday if anyone is interested in seeing it but in that Gallery also, we're going to begin to show films on a weekly basis and then we have our moving Image Makers series, which is an exhibition program. At the Minneapolis Institute for the Arts that shows the work mainly of Minnesota filmmakers. Then we have quite a pool of filmmaking equipment and do a that's open to Independent filmmakers in the area in both Super 8 and 16 millimeter. This is in response to the need for such equipment by individuals. So that one can afford to do this in the past. It's been so costly that that artists wanting to work in this medium really couldn't afford it or only the very wealthy could so what this does is to cut across economic barriers and make it possible for anyone to come in and make a film in these media in the dark rooms in the basement. Of course photography can be done and we have courses in all of these we provide the only degree program offered by the University degree program that is offered by Minnesota public universities through Inver Hills Community College. And that's a 2 2 year degree program. That anyone can come in and take these courses are also open to the general public. So anyone can come in at any level from beginning photography or film making through advanced and specialized workshops such as Optical printing animation Etc. And that's about it. That's enough distribution of films. We don't we don't distribute the work of the access center members at this point and I'm not sure whether we will get into that. What we do have however is a collection of films by adolescents. And this was one of the first projects that film in the cities undertook years ago. It was with the a secondary school program with a st. Paul public schools and absolutely exceptional films came out of that. Have you seen them Sally? No, I have it. Well, they're amazing the best in the country. I would say in that there is no visible single Style. The people who taught this program to the secondary school children were very careful to make sure that it was the unique vision of that child that became apparent in the work. In other words freed the children to express themselves as they were and are and in National terms these films are outstanding in that way and have been spoken of as such being absolutely unique in their Vision their individual vision and that is available for distribution and goes out to a number of places wherever requested but beyond that we're not involved in distribution Sally I Fisher I promised you the opportunity to talk about a program that is upcoming at university community (00:18:54) video. We are sponsoring the Minnesota independent film and video festival and showcase and we've done some work with human the city's on this what this is we will be taking a block of programming time on channel 2 KT catv from February 12th through Sting and we'll have a half hour every night at 10:32 broadcast programs that have films and video tapes that are produced by Minnesota Independence and we are we've got a panel of Judges that will be judging the tapes and films that are submitted in the showcases open to any Minnesota resident of the past or any film that was produced in Minnesota during the past two years and it's for half inch or 3/4 inch video Super 8 film or 16-millimeter film and this will be a really excellent showcase for producers in the area to have their work shown on television. I think it'll be very very exciting. I really nice chance for people to have access to (00:20:00) TV. And that's an example of cooperation with public broadcasting. Right? What about the potential if cable should develop in the metro area for both of you in terms of filmmakers and (00:20:13) Video makers (00:20:14) is that something that should be strongly pushed for? So it's a natural. Yes. Absolutely (00:20:19) cable is probably one of the best ways to really develop Community awareness in media because the number of channels that are available are cable system can accommodate the technology now is that they can have over 80 channels which means you can have just a variety of things from your standard broadcast programming to very what we call narrowcast programming which is things that are aimed at very specific audiences where you don't care if whether or not you're reaching 2 million people because you have a specific thing that you want to deal with in with cable television comes access channels which are channels for the community for local government for local educational institutions. And anyone can put programming on this channel. So filmmakers can put programs on video-makers can put programs on people from the community who have something to say can get on the channel and say it and Encompasses a really wide variety of things and I think that the kind of technology that we're seeing developing in this country with regard to mass communications is such that cable. We will be becoming more and more important and it's working in a number of places around the country and I think it would just offer a lot of things to this (00:21:32) area. It's interesting because you both come from places where there have been differing reactions to Cable Sally Fisher you've come from Connecticut, which as you told me seem to have a fairly successful cable program Sally Dixon on the other hand from Pittsburgh, which has not had an aggressive cable program even in the Suburban areas around the city. What seems to be the predominant reason Force success or failure in a cable program. (00:22:02) Well, as far as I can see it's really got to do with Community involvement in terms of the the local channels know nothing about the regular broadcast program. To have Community media be something that's expressed successful. You need support from the community. You can't just have a bunch of young videotape makers running around making programs and have that be it. You've really got to get the community to feel as though they have a stake in what's happening. And so that they're providing financial support moral support. They're getting involved with making the programs that it's really kind of two-way thing with people who may be know something about video just kind of pointing the direction as to where they can go in I think in those instances where it's not working with Community Access to Cable part of it is because of the people who are doing the organizing. I think that that's really true and I think that that's part of the problem that Pittsburgh was facing because Pennsylvania is the most heavily cabled state in the country and there's a phenomenal number of access channels in Pennsylvania that are Working really well with you know related access centers. (00:23:16) I had no idea. That's an interesting. Why not Pittsburgh? Yeah. No answer. (00:23:22) Yeah, man, sitting and York, Pennsylvania and Lebanon and no number of of areas where things are really hopping (00:23:30) from from your Vantage Point and whatever you here are the twin cities near to getting a cable system (00:23:37) sounds like it's getting closer and closer. I've only been here for two months. And so I don't have all the connections into that yet. But I've been hearing a number of things that lead me to believe that within the next few years were going to start seeing some activity. That's about as much as I know right now, but I think it would be important and I think that it would really benefit the Twin Cities area to have cable television. It would benefit producers and the (00:24:03) community how seems to me it would be really important to be in on the begin the from the beginning on the programming. So there's definitely a slot for independent films. Instance various cage and independent video pieces people who want to work in that way. If it does not come in the coming year will we see kind of a halting to the evolution of film and video in the (00:24:26) cities? I don't think so. You see V has for the past four years. We had a regular program on channel 2 called changing channels, which we do not have this year. But that was a program which combined the work of our own producers and Community producers and it was essentially access to television and our concern is not so much what kind of you know, whether it's broadcast television or cable television, but the fact that people can get their programming on TV that it's not closed to anyone who doesn't work for the television station or is you know, powerful and influential that all people should have access to Media if they want it and so what we're working towards is just trying to keep In and expand the broadcast climate here in the Twin Cities that is receptive to Community Access into to our work and building on that Sally Dixon. Are you as optimistic? (00:25:25) I am certainly I hear Sally Fisher and I can't speak for video, of course, but in terms of film filmmaking that is already going in there's going to be no stopping it and it's not just here. It's really across the country. Yeah and his is moving into its past the period or really in the period of defining itself and is now on the way to becoming an established institution that of independent film and video making reading (00:25:52) both. Yeah. I think the Twin Cities have a lot to be proud of because of the kind of support that film in the cities and university community video have received and we just a program that we broadcast last year received two awards from The Corporation for Public Broadcasting was the best local program in the best newsman. Seen it was this the same program and that's phenomenal I think and I think that's something that is just the beginning of what's Happening rather than the end for the Twin Cities. Yes. Yeah that kind of (00:26:26) thing the same kind of thing with film in the cities in terms of national recognition that the the Nea designated it as one of Seventeen major media centers in the country. And then I learned of course that it was one of the very first and oldest and which pleases me enormously now to be working with it for this year. I want to thank both of you for joining us. That was Sally Dixon the acting executive director of film in the cities and Sally Fisher whose general manager of university community video.