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SPEAKER 1: Well, I'd say there still are a lot of people that are afraid. I get a lot of questions from people asking about the Indians. Those that do come and ask if they're still causing trouble around. And, of course, all I can really say is what I locally here. And, of course, that's not all Indians either. It seems the guy that did shoot the guy across the street, he was an Indian. I don't know if he wasn't. He didn't really say he was an AIM Indian or anything. But, of course, that all leads back to it. The AIM headquarters is right above the building that the guy that owned it got killed

SPEAKER 2: Across the street?

SPEAKER 1: Yeah, it's the second storey. It's where the AIM headquarters is, right above it. And he had the sewing center down below. And the guy was supposedly got the wrong door and came in there. The man escorted him out, and the guy come back over half hour, 45 minutes later and shot him right in front of his own place.

SPEAKER 2: You've lived in Rapid City all your life.

SPEAKER 1: Most of it, yeah. Not all of it.

SPEAKER 2: Do you think that you could speak generally for people's feelings in the city? How do people in Rapid City feel about Indians?

SPEAKER 1: Well, most of the people know like the local businessmen, most of the businessmen downtown from that aspect know most of the Indians. And they've formed an opinion as to, well, there's two classifications of Indians here in Rapid City. There's the ones that work, and there's the ones that are drunk. And I mean, that's just the way they've classified them. And so there's a lot of Indians here in town that have very good credit.

Can come in and charge anything, and they'll step a little over their normal boundaries for a lot of them, because they're just the same as-- treat them same as everybody else and if he's a good friend and a little more. But another one comes walking through the door with a red armband, first thing is we take one. A lot of places will send one of their employees just to follow that guy with the red armband or the red band around his head or something. Their AIM written on his jacket, they'll watch those a little closer.

SPEAKER 2: What does a red armband signify in it of itself?

SPEAKER 1: It's a symbol that the AIM started when they were here as wearing either red armbands, red headbands, red ribbons in their hair or red letters on the back of their jacket. AIM like that. And that's a lot of them wear those now. Of course, there's the local Indians that are only AIM Indians when there's AIM leaders in town or there's causing AIM trouble. The rest of the time they're just the local Indian. But most of the people around here that join the AIM are mostly the local trouble causers from way back anyway. It just gives them a new reason.

SPEAKER 2: Why is that?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I mean-- what I mean is, a lot of these guys you may see them walking down the street one day just in a dirty Jean jacket, and the next day when there's like we had a little trouble at the federal building where AIM come in and occupied that for an afternoon was all it really amounted to. But there's sure a lot of the old local boys wearing their red jackets and their red armbands and everything. So they're only just as brave as when they've got somebody else to back them up.

SPEAKER 2: What was the occupation of the federal building about?

SPEAKER 1: I'm not sure what the complaint was or what the deal was. But AIM and there was a bunch of them in here. A bunch of members of AIM, and they just had a more of a peaceful demonstration. They all sit on the front porch and everything, and just more or less stopped business for the federal building for that day. And it only lasted one afternoon. By 7:00, 8:00 that evening it was all over with.

There was no violence took place. And as far as I know, there wasn't any arrests. It was better off if they didn't try to cause anything. Police department, I think in a way, from what I've talked, I know a lot of local policemen. And they bent over backwards just to avoid anything. And finally they left. They come in and made trouble for the day and left.

SPEAKER 2: Do people in Rapid City make a distinction between the American Indian Movement and other Indian people?

SPEAKER 1: Well, all I can say is anybody that has any trouble with an Indian, it's a running joke amongst people. If you've got a bad check from someone with an Indian name, I mean, like fire thunder or something like that, you automatically associate that with an Indian. Of course, if you get a bad check from them, it's a joke to say, well, it must be an AIM Indian. But he's probably had written bad checks for years long before AIM ever started.

But you do notice that they associate them with things like that. Any bad Indians-- in Rapid City, they finally done away with the public intoxication in Rapid City. It used to be a rule as I know from going-- like I used to build hot rods, and I was in a lot of trouble like traffic violations. And half of the traffic court in local court was for public intoxication. And I'd say 99% of those were Indians. And so, like I say, anybody that was the local drunk now is an AIM Indian. Of course, a lot of them have turned to be an AIM Indian. But it just gives them maybe a little better feeling.

SPEAKER 2: What is an AIM Indian?

SPEAKER 1: Well, as far as the local people, the definition I would say that get from most local people is a trouble raiser, hell raiser, trouble causer, he's a local drunk. Not all the local drunks are AIM Indians but that's the way they classify them anymore. I mean that's just anybody that they look down on like drunks or the guys that cause trouble or anything. Those they classify them.

But as far as just a straight AIM Indian, the definition I would give would be the members of the American Indian Movement. And those are the guys that agitated all the trouble we've had lately.

SPEAKER 2: Is there a difference between local people then and American Indian Movement people?

SPEAKER 1: Definitely. Your local Indians, like you say, there's two classes, the drunken Indian and the working Indian. And the working Indian will have nothing to do with an AIM Indian. In fact, that's the first way to start a good fight is if you walk up to a local Indian and tell him you're an AIM Indian. He'd be the first guy to knock your head off. Actually most of the local people like I say, the better Indians, they thought everything was fine, most of them.

Of course, there is prejudiced here. Definitely. But of course it's the bad ones that caused it. But I would say that your AIM Indian is-- and all that is just cause from the bad guys anymore.

SPEAKER 2: Do you feel, in other words, that prejudice against Indians in Rapid City, for example, is caused by bad Indians?

SPEAKER 1: Well, yeah. Most of it. Now like here, I've got a lot of friends. Of course, I did live on the reservation for a while. And I've got a lot of friends that are Indians. And in fact, my best friend-- and he's going to be my best man at my wedding when I get married this fall-- is an Indian. He's a full-blooded Indian. And I've definitely got nothing against him. But he works here in town. And his credit's good. And he's never written a bad check and anything like that.

Of course, I've got some friends that are White that have written bad checks and everything else, but they're still my friends, of course. But I don't know. That's like I say, the main prejudices is against the guys like the people next door that are drunk and panhandling on the street all the time. And you definitely run into that down here.

SPEAKER 2: As a operator of this store here in Rapid City, are you afraid of Indians?

SPEAKER 1: No. Like I say, I've lived with them all my life on and off the reservation. And they've got a standing rule in here. We always-- and especially the manager, he will say to anyone whether they're drunk or AIM Indian or anything, if they're causing trouble, especially the drunks, he'll say, leave. And sometimes he'll bodily escort them out the door. And he'll say, come back anytime when you're sober. And I have more trouble with drunks than, say, the AIM Indians, because they only come back once in a while. But I just have more trouble with the local drunks.

SPEAKER 2: Do you keep a gun in your store?

SPEAKER 1: Yes. I definitely do. I got a shot gun in the store.

SPEAKER 2: Why do you say, definitely?

SPEAKER 1: Well, like I say, the trouble I've had lately shooting a guy right across the street from me. In fact, two of the people, two the girls that worked here, I was not at the store at the time. And the manager was on vacation. I wasn't here at the time, but the two girls that worked here both saw the guy shoot the man. And have given their names to the police department, and are willing to be witnesses against the guy.

SPEAKER 2: Do you have a feeling, though, that the American Indian Movement might come in your store? Do you keep a shotgun for that reason?

SPEAKER 1: Not really. I keep it more for the local Indians. I've never had in a store that I know of any trouble with just saying AIM Indian as to classify him as an AIM Indian. Most trouble I have is just with the drunks. And of course I have some Whites in here that are drunks. It's just I'm in a bad location right here.

SPEAKER 2: Could you speculate as a South Dakota citizen on the causes of Indian poverty?

SPEAKER 1: A lot of it is their own foolishness. I live down there. Now I know for a fact and I can take you and show you the government has set up-- of course, now, in my own opinion, they are cheap houses, but any house is better than nothing. The government builds new housing projects all the time. And I've seen them where brand new houses, they will hock or take anything like the copper tubing, anything in the water system that they can sell, electrical outlets, anything they can sell to get money to buy booze.

Now, this, of course, doesn't affect all of them. A lot of them are just living there and keep a very nice place. But a lot of them run the place down. Sell anything that's sellable of appliances. They will actually sell the furnace system out of a house, the heating system, and then tear up the walls and use for firewood to keep warm.

SPEAKER 2: Would you say that the causes of Indian poverty are more lack of ambition or more prejudice on the part of White people?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I would say, actually on the government's part it is bad, too. But they did correct part of that. They used to give them so much money per month, the Indians. And, of course, the good or the better class of Indian would go, and he'd buy food with his. And, of course, it's not really a welfare type thing. But they were allowed sort on the order of food stamps.

If you were so much Indian and had a card, you were allowed so much government food also in commodities. And that's like in bulk like dry rice, 25 pounds or so. It depends upon, of course, how much Indian you are. But they used to give them all money, and that didn't work out, because all the ones that would spend it on getting drunk and just were say what you'd call, the no goods. They wouldn't try to better themselves.

They'd spend all theirs on booze and everything. So they cut down on the money so much and upped the commodities more, and started building more housing projects. But now the Indians still get around and like I say, taking anything sellable out of the house, glass, windows, anything they can sell. They'll take that out and sell it to get money to get drunk on.

SPEAKER 2: Why is that? I noticed several times in the conversation that you associate Indian people with liquor. Why is that? What connection do you see there? Or what are the origins of that?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I really don't know how it started. Of course, a lot of them feel that they're prejudiced and put down. And I realize that in this area that has done a lot of it, and that causes a lot of your later people that have turned into drunks. Maybe the prejudice and the trouble lately have caused them to become drinkers. Same as in the ghettos you'd find a lot of alcoholics and everything.

But I think originally on the reservation, all you were allowed to drink-- they are not allowed legally to sell anything above 3.2 beer on the reservation. But, of course, you've always got the bathtub gin thing. I think that started a lot of it. On the reservations there's a lot of fact, like the movies that show that the Indians were not allowed like the firewater and that prohibition. If you couldn't have it, it just was more of a thing than to get it.

Of course, that's like marijuana is now. It's illegal, but that makes it more in demand because you're doing something that isn't legal. And I think that's what started it. And then a lot of them just picked it up from, well, like I say, that's the same as in ghettos. The dad was a drunk, and I grew up to be a drunk, and my son will probably be a drunk too. And that's just, like I say, the same thing. A lot of parts of the reservation is just like a big city ghetto, only scattered out and more urban.

SPEAKER 2: So would you be saying, in other words, that you would associate the poverty with the alcoholism?

SPEAKER 1: Well, definitely. I've seen well, as a fact, my uncle is a bulk dealer. He lives just off the reservation. Delivers gas. And now a lot of them would trade like their food commodities for fuel or oil to him, which he actually isn't supposed to do. So I'm not going to say who it is, because it's illegal for him to do that. But none of them would ever blow the whistle on him due to the fact that that's the only way they kept warm. And he has done this.

But also a lot of them will sell their food commodities or hawk anything that they can to get money to buy booze. And like I say, that's another way they got around. Actually, part of the poverty is their own ignorance, because if you're a certain amount of Indian, you are supplied with so much if you're living on the reservation. And some of them draw even off the reservation. For the more Indian blood you have in you, the more you can draw from the government in money and food and everything you get.

Also, I don't know how the clothing goes on that. I suppose they figure you should take your clothing out of the money they give you allotted. But it isn't like as if they give them a stamp that said that you had to use this for clothing only. Instead I suppose that comes out of the money they give them. But I don't know how to classify that either. I'd say the town I lived in was just off the reservation.

And that most of the Indians that I met there were the drunks that due to the fact you couldn't buy any wine, which is a cheap drunk as cheap wine, you couldn't buy any wine on the reservation. This town I lived in was just off the reservation. You could tell the day they got their lease checks, because that afternoon and all for a couple of days until they ran out of money, they'd all be in the bar there in that town, and they'd all be drunk.

But, of course, that's, like I say, living on the reservation, the guy I worked for was a White man. He leased land from the government and what's the old bombing range down here that was used for target practice for bombers during World War II. And he would hire Indians, and he would get a little of each. I mean, he would get an Indian fella who would come in and work for months without any problem.

Then he'd get those at work until the first time they got paid, and he'd never see them again. But of course, like I said, it goes same for any White man too.

SPEAKER 2: On the reservation, is there a friction between, say, White ranchers or other White people on the reservation and Indians?

SPEAKER 1: Well, there might be a little more towards the local Indian than there used to be. But as a general rule, most of the time they just ignored the bad ones. I mean, like the drunks, they just ignored them mostly and just let it pass. They have to. They knew that those Indians were going to be there when they moved in there, because like a lot of those White ranchers are on the reservation leasing land from the government and have got every right to do anything to that land they want to as long as they pay their lease to the government.

SPEAKER 2: Don't they lease the land from the Indian people?

SPEAKER 1: They lease the land from the government, as far as I understand it, on the reservation. But now most of that is bombing range. Actually legally on reservation to lease land from them, I think you have to be Indian or lease through the Indian that has the legal right to that land. Now, of course, like I say, the lease checks I think are made right out to the federal government.

And then the federal government in turn allots it back to the people that it belongs to supposedly. I don't know how accurate that is either. But it's definitely not a fair deal. I think that the federal government part of the Indian deal down there like the BIA, that could be remodeled quite a bit.

SPEAKER 2: In what ways?

SPEAKER 1: Well, of course I can't prove it. But just from what I know that I've heard and couldn't really prove on paper, but it's a fairly general fact, a lot of that is like any other governmental deal that's come out lately, a lot of guys are skimming a little off the top. And they're not always sending back the money to where it belongs actually.

SPEAKER 2: News publicity of the occupation of Wounded Knee indicated that one of the targets of the occupants in their grievances and their demands were the White ranchers and other White people living on the reservation. In your own experience, was that a threat to those people?

SPEAKER 1: Well, the White ranchers, as soon as like AIM moved in there and started causing trouble, the first thing most of the White ranchers, like I say, immediately associated the AIM with the bad Indians. And a lot of your ranchers you would find carrying guns in their cars, riding horseback, they had guns. Another thing is the AIM-- there was a white man lived within a few miles of Wounded Knee and had a bunch of cattle. And quite a few of his cattle were slaughtered to furnish food for those that were in the Wounded Knee area.

And they seemed to pick out a White man's ranch that they took it from. And, of course, news travels that the Indians got his cattle, and, of course, that caused a lot of bad feelings too right there. But that was more towards AIM. And it's like I say, most of the local people that lived down there lived with those Indians all their life, and they know which ones are the better ones and which ones aren't.

SPEAKER 2: Were some of the demands of the occupants in Wounded Knee to reclaim a lot of Indian treaty lands in Western South Dakota, including lands in and around Wounded Knee?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I don't know how they set that up and what demands they were met or what really were the demands due to the fact that a lot of that was kept pretty secret, because it was a pretty touch and go deal, and they didn't want to get it out, because a lot of the local people would become very upset if they found out the government was dealing with Mount Rushmore or something like that, because as far as on paper shows that they've repaid the Indians far more than what actually the land was worth, according to the treaty when they took the Black Hills.

SPEAKER 2: Well, recently I read in the newspaper that the land claim courts has offered Sioux Indians in Western South Dakota compensation for the Black Hills, including Mount Rushmore. And the Sioux Nation has rejected that offer, saying that it was not enough because of all the gold, for example, that was taken out of the Black Hills.

SPEAKER 1: Well, now I'm not so sure about the Sioux Nation. Because, like I say, most of the people that make up the government down there were perfectly happy before AIM ever came in. And if they get more money, I don't see why they would reject it unless, of course, there are some of them turning over towards AIM side. Most of them are perfectly happy with the way things were before AIM ever came in here.

And like I say, most of them are pretty happy and they didn't really have any gripe. Now that I don't know about. I never read that anywhere. And so I don't know about that. And as far as the talk around, I haven't heard much about that.

SPEAKER 2: Have the people you call local Indians been changed by the American Indian Movement?

SPEAKER 1: Most of them haven't. What like I'd say, if you want to put them in a classification, the good Indians, they haven't changed much other than they are bitter towards the AIM Indians. But now the local guy that just needed a good excuse to raise a little hell and get in trouble anyway and was in trouble all the time, he has turned towards an AIM Indian, but that's only when there's more AIM Indians in town.

The guy you normally see would never wear a red arm band, but when they had trouble with the federal at the federal building and they had the set in there and everything, a lot of the local ones that were troublemakers-- that I mean I could name off by name-- a lot of those are suddenly wearing red arm bands and everything else. But I think it was just a heyday for them.

SPEAKER 2: How do people in South Dakota feel about the fact that apparently most of the Wounded Knee occupants who have gone to trial have been freed by the courts owned by juries?

SPEAKER 1: Well, now South Dakota is actually in two sections. There's East of the river and West of the river. Now, those East of the river really don't have that much of an opinion on it as, say, close to the people that are close to around here. And the only thing I got to say is if an Indian killed a White man and got away with it, that I'm afraid would cause one hell of an uproar around here. It's pretty touch and go right now.

Most of the people aren't too satisfied with the way it turned out but, of course, most of the trials were taken completely out of the state due to the fact that there was too many people prejudiced either way around here. And like I say, if something else came up, I'm afraid it would cause a lot of-- there'd be a lot of uproar. Most of what used to be your local peaceful citizen is liable to cause all kinds of trouble, because the people around here are just-- the tension has been too much, and they're just fed up with it, and they're not going to take any more of it.

SPEAKER 2: Are there reserve groups of white people who would do something about the American Indian Movement if it was not done by other means?

SPEAKER 1: Of course, I don't know how many of the people that are all brave now would actually show up if they asked them to like if they decided they were going to get up some deal like that. But there are a lot of people that definitely say they would. But, of course, how many show up and how many say they would is two different things. But there are a lot of people that would definitely I think if they got around to where they were shooting people back and forth, there should be a lot of them show up immediately. It'd end up in another vigilante group around here.

The fact of it is that I really don't pay that much attention to it due to the fact I'm sick and tired of hearing about it. That same as like most people are sick and tired of Vietnam. That's all you ever heard on the news. Well, that's all it goes on in the local news here is about the AIM trials. And most people just tune themselves out to it and really don't care. Well, maybe not care, but they're just tired of listening to it.

SPEAKER 2: What is it about the American Indian Movement that local people dislike the most?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I think I said it might have roused a few more of the old rowdies and got them back in circulation. Rapid City, of course, in statistics has always had a fairly high crime rate, but most of it was nothing like murders or shootings or anything like that. And, of course, now I don't know how much of this has been caused by that. But it just seems to the people there's a very good coincidence that we have had a lot of trouble.

We had a shooting here that a man was killed. Another one we had a burglary in which the man that owned the house caught a burglar in his house, and was stabbed numerous times by the burglar then finally got a gun and killed a burglar. While he was in the hospital intensive care ward, somebody drove past his house and shot it full of holes.

SPEAKER 2: Were these incidents associated with the American Indian Movement?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I would not say as much with the American Indian Movement as just the fact that they started most of the big trouble in South Dakota or, say, this part of South Dakota. And like I say, I think it made a lot of people a little more braver than they used to be. If you were thinking ever thinking about doing anything dishonest, the Rapid City area right now is in such a touch and go area that if you were ever going to be brave, now's as good a time as any to do it.

SPEAKER 2: Would you distinguish between those kinds of crimes, burglary and murder crimes involving shooting of human beings with incidents which people would call or might call political in nature?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I don't know. Like I say, everything right now is being associated back to the AIM Indians as much as they can, due to the fact that the local people that aren't AIM are very much against them. So anything that happens, they try to figure out an angle to get back at them. And it just upset a lot more people when the trials went the other way and never did ever get really to the juries. And most of those guys got off.

And I really don't know if the guy that like was robbing that guy's house was an Indian at all. As far as I know, in fact, I think he was a White man as far as I know. But the local people that talk is, well, he wouldn't have been brave enough to go in and rob somebody's house unless it hadn't been for all the trouble we've had lately.

SPEAKER 2: Would you reject the notion that the American Indian Movement is engaged in a civil rights struggle?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I can't see as they've got enough backing. Most of your problem with the AIM is just still the same small group of people. They've picked up a few more, but they're really not like the Civil Rights. Still I say it was for the colored people, because they had-- well, when they would have their marches for long distance, they would pick up thousands and thousands of people along the way.

And I know if the AIM Indians marched through here, they might lose a few. I mean, there might take a few pot shots from out in the weeds. I don't think they'd gain that many people.

SPEAKER 2: Wasn't part of that reason that there are 20 or 30 or 40 million Black people in the United States and only several hundred thousand Indians?

SPEAKER 1: Well, that's true. But like I say, these people don't have the local support like the Civil Rights deal, like say, for the colored people had. A lot of your regular, say your middle class colored people were for the Civil Rights change at that time. But say your middle class Indian, he's perfectly happy the way he is. Well, maybe not perfectly happy, but not enough to try to get into it. This is more of a militant group than it is more of a political group.

I mean, that's more the way it's been classified. They're more out to-- the way it's looked, because they've never really handled anything peacefully. I mean, everything has been they had to go in and occupy someplace rather than sitting down and agreeing upon a meeting somewhere. They've went in like when they took over-- there was a packing plant they took over in the Eastern part of the state. And that's the way they've been doing things.

And they just come in and take something over to get attention rather than saying that we will meet with you here, and we'll sit down and have a meeting. They've went to more of a drastic thing.

SPEAKER 2: There were a series of meetings with the White owner of the packing plant in Eastern South Dakota before that takeover. Is that not a fact?

SPEAKER 1: Well, now that, of course, is on the other end of the state, and that I don't know that much about other than what I read. And like I say, I begin to believe that what you read in the newspaper or hear on the radio isn't always true anyway. And that's like I say, we've had a lot of bad publicity, including the flood. And the flood was the first bad thing we really had. And so I don't always believe everything I read in the paper anymore.

And I rely more on what my friends tell me. Of course, that isn't always true either, but when you get 9 out of 10 people tell you the same thing, most of the time, unless he's the town gossip, most of the time I go for that. Most of the people that I even base any of my information on, of course, is the same everybody else does, is he's never lied to me before. Why should he now? But of course he might have heard that from somebody else.

SPEAKER 2: Has the violence been caused by the American Indian Movement or has it been a reaction to and from White people?

SPEAKER 1: Well, most of the violence at first was caused like by a takeover, and then the rest of it from there on was a reaction to it. But, I mean, most of the time, like I say, they have started with a takeover of some sort or just coming in, moving right into a place and saying, we've got this now. And the biggest-- most of the violence was a reaction to that.

They might have very peacefully-- like as far as I know, when they took over Wounded Knee, there weren't any injuries. They just come in and said, we're taking over the church that they were in. And they moved into it. And the guy that owned the church and everything, and there was a tourist-- well, like a tourist trap, a trading post type thing there, and they took over that in the church.

And the people that owned it just moved out from fear more than anything and just got out of there. And then any of the violence that happened after that was the reaction to the takeover, I think, as far as I know.

SPEAKER 2: You mean violence on the part of federal police who surrounded Wounded Knee?

SPEAKER 1: Well, right. And then, of course, it's hard to say who shot first or what actually happened, of course, unless you were there and actually saw what happened. And then those people aren't really sure either. But most of the violence usually happened after the takeover. Usually it wasn't like a violent takeover. There wasn't like a gun battle to take the place. It was most of it, as far as I know, was any of the violence was the reaction to the taking or whatever they'd done.

SPEAKER 2: Could I ask you a personal question? Do you feel that you're prejudiced against Indian people?

SPEAKER 1: Well, I'm prejudiced against what I classify in my own mind as the bad Indian. And that's like the drunks and the people I have to put up with down here, and that's right next to the bar and everything that there is here. There is a lot of Indian people that are in here drunk. Of course, there's a lot of White people that come in here. And I am definitely prejudiced against them. Now, I can't say I'd marry an Indian girl.

I've went out with the Indian girls before and everything, but I really can't say maybe that was the reason I didn't ever decide to marry one. But like I say, the guy that's going to be the best man at my wedding is an Indian. So maybe I appreciate him more than my father does. And my father is a little more prejudiced, I think, than I am, in fact, by far more. Took a long time before my best friend could come out to my house and even hardly talk to my father.

He wouldn't talk to him hardly at all. Now that he found out that the guy is my friend whether he likes it or not. Him and the guy get along pretty good now. But at first he didn't. I would say that my dad has more prejudice than I do. But I still have prejudice against. Of course, I would rather sit next to a clean Indian or a clean Negro any day than sit next to a dirty White person. That's always been my attitude.

Like I say, so far I just feel that as long as you've done nothing wrong to me, my general attitude is I really don't have anything against you as long as you haven't done anything to me.

SPEAKER 2: What did you mean about the part that you would not marry an Indian girl?

SPEAKER 1: Well, that's like an old saying like, I'm not prejudiced against the Negroes, but I'd never let my daughter marry a colored guy or something like that. I haven't really decided if-- well, I don't know how you really decide if you are prejudiced. I don't go running around saying I hate all Indians to where everybody would think that I am prejudiced. But I also don't go around saying that I love all the Indians either.

I just kept most of it to myself due to the fact that it is a touch and go thing here in this area. But I don't know, I suppose I do have a certain prejudice but not against all Indians. It's about the best way I can say it. That's like I have a prejudice against certain colored people and certain white people but not against all of them.

SPEAKER 2: Is there anything you'd like to say that you feel that I haven't touched on?

SPEAKER 1: Actually, I think that there has been a lot of trouble here. And like I say, I think everybody's getting a bad deal. I think that like I say, a lot of people anytime something happens with an Indian, if he does something wrong, right automatically he's classified as an AIM Indian. But then also too, they've caused a lot of hard feelings around here. And that's the way the situation is. That's all there is to it.

SPEAKER 2: Do you think that Indian and White people will begin to live together, or do you see Indian people pulling away and isolating themselves and trying to return to perhaps a life of their ancestors?

SPEAKER 1: No. I really don't. Because for one thing as far as I can tell like from reading from history books, that the Indian population through a long winter, half of them died. And I think a lot of them realize that now. A lot of them are trying to get something changed, but I can't see them pulling away from each other, because like I say, there's a lot of-- in the say, the higher society side of town where the nicer houses are and everything, there's Indian families living there. And I haven't seen any of them trying to sell their house to move out.

But your middle class Indians that are workers and work with the White people most of the time, I don't see anything. I don't see that they're going to change much. Really they haven't even really tried for any change. The AIM was the first thing that ever happened. And that was a blow to the local Indians as well as it was to the White people around here. Until Wounded Knee, they never really paid much attention to them either way until it hit right here.