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[MUSIC PLAYING] KERRI MILLER: Coming up on the first hour of Midmorning, two members of Congress have recently been to Iraq and returned with very different views of the way ahead. We'll talk with DFLer Tim Walz in the first half, Republican Michele Bachmann in the second when Midmorning begins in just a moment. So stay with us.

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But first news.

PAUL BROWN: From MPR News in Washington, I'm Paul Brown. Federal Reserve Board chairman Ben Bernanke is appearing on Capitol Hill this hour, where he's expected to testify in support of congressional action to stimulate the economy. MPR's Brian Naylor reports.

BRIAN NAYLOR: Bernanke will testify before the House Budget Committee as lawmakers from both parties mull legislation aimed at giving a boost to the economy. Lawmakers and many economists say a recession is looming, which has sparked a rare bipartisan agreement for action. Just what to do hasn't been determined.

Democrats say any stimulus package must be targeted, timely, and temporary. They favor tax rebates, along with extending jobless benefits and making food stamps more available. Many Republicans are calling for tax cuts. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi said the package will not be all things to all people. President Bush is expected to weigh in this afternoon during a conference call with congressional leaders. Brian Naylor, NPR News.

PAUL BROWN: As Bernanke goes before Congress, the world's biggest brokerage house, Merrill Lynch, reports a loss of nearly $10 billion in the final quarter of last year due to bad subprime mortgage debt. It's Merrill's biggest quarterly loss ever. Merrill also said it will write off $11 and 1/2 billion in debt obligations and subprime residential mortgages.

Merrill's announcement today follows word of huge losses at Citigroup and Morgan Stanley, both related to subprime mortgage problems. As troubles continue in the housing industry, the government reports today that new home construction fell nearly 25% last year. That's the biggest drop in 27 years.

A US Navy helicopter has crashed during a training mission in South Texas, killing three crew members. A Navy spokesman said there was heavy fog in the area last night at the time of the crash. Steve-- or rather Shane Barker of member station KEDT in Corpus Christi reports.

SHANE BARKER: The MH-53 Sea Dragon assigned to mine countermeasures Squadron 15 at Naval Air Station Corpus Christi, was on a routine training mission when it went down. Three crew members died and the lone survivor was rushed to Christus Spohn Hospital Memorial in Corpus Christi. He was listed in critical condition.

The crash happened at about 8:15 Wednesday night in heavy fog. Preliminary reports say the helicopter may have collided with KEDT's its transmitter tower. The large, lighted beacon atop the tower was lying on the ground amid the wreckage.

A witness said he heard the helicopter then saw a red fireball shoot up in the air, followed by a large boom and then dead silence. The fog also hindered rescue efforts. The cause of the crash has not been determined. For MPR News, I'm Shane Barker in Corpus Christi.

PAUL BROWN: At least three people were killed today in Peshawar, Pakistan in a bomb attack. More than a dozen were Wounded. The Dow Jones Industrial average is up 35 points at 12,501. The NASDAQ Composite is up 19 points in early trading. From Washington, this is MPR News.

SPEAKER 1: Support for news comes from Chevy with seven models with 30 miles per gallon or better on the highway, based on EPA estimates and segmentation. Learn more at Chevy.com.

PERRI FINELLI: From Minnesota Public Radio News, I'm Perri Finelli. Supporters of a special fund to compensate victims of the 35W bridge collapse hoped to have a law establishing the account passed by mid-March. State Senator Ron Latz and Representative Ryan Winkler, both DFLers, say legislative leaders have endorsed their timeline. A hearing on the legislation will be held next Tuesday.

The union, representing 70,000 Minnesota educators, has recommended Al Franken as its favored DFL candidate to challenge US Senator Norm Coleman in November. Education Minnesota says Franken strong support of public education and educators and his strong campaign make him the best candidate for the job. South Dakota will soon lose one of its two medical examiners before he retires. Brad Randall wants the state to change the system and how deaths are investigated. MPR's Cara Hetland has more.

CARA HETLAND: Minnehaha County medical examiner Brad Randall says the coroner system is out of date and wants the state to have a system with more quality control. Randall is proposing a state medical examiner with regional investigators. He says it's the process many other states use.

BRAD RANDALL: You would still probably rely on the Highway Patrol to do the accident reconstruction. You would rely on the crime lab to do hairs and fibers and DNA analysis.

CARA HETLAND: Any change must come from the South Dakota legislature. This year lawmakers will likely study the issue. Randall wants to retire in three years. Cara Hetland, Minnesota Public Radio News, Sioux Falls.

PERRI FINELLI: In sports, the University of Minnesota men's basketball team host number nine ranked Indiana tonight at Williams Arena. The Hoosiers are undefeated in three games in the Big Ten. The Gophers are two in one. Some snow for southeastern Minnesota today, highs 5 in the North, 15 in the South. Right now in the Twin Cities, cloudy skies, 2 above, wind chill minus 13. This is Minnesota Public Radio News.

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KERRI MILLER: This is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Kerri Miller. This hour two trips to Iraq, two very different views. They are both newcomers from Minnesota to the US House, both facing serious candidate challenges in their re-election campaigns and both aware that the war in Iraq is certain to be on the minds of voters in November of 2008.

So Democrat Tim Walz and Republican Michele Bachmann each recently traveled to Iraq. Congresswoman Bachmann went to Ramadi in Baghdad in December, where she spent Christmas with American troops. She came home convinced that the surge has helped create a turnaround that she declared was nothing short of astounding. And she'll join us a bit later in the hour to tell us why.

DFLer Tim Walz just returned from a trip to Pakistan, where he was briefed on the stability within the country in the wake of Benazir Bhutto's assassination. And he went to Germany and Iraq, where he followed the path an injured soldier might make as he was evacuated out of the war zone and treated in the military system. Congressman Walz is a member of the Army National Guard. He's with us this morning from Washington. Congressman, good to talk to you again. I think it's been a while.

TIM WALZ: It has been. Thanks for having me, Kerri.

KERRI MILLER: Tell me what it was that you were trying to find out as you embarked on this path from the battlefield of Iraq to military hospitals in Germany, and then back home to Washington.

TIM WALZ: Right. Well, what we're trying to do is be proactive. And the care that our soldiers are receiving in the theater of war is unprecedented. It's fantastic. From the time a soldier is injured and treated by a combat medic to the time they're evacuated to the next facility, whether that be Baghdad or Bagram in Afghanistan and then on to Landstuhl, Germany and back to the United States.

That can take three days and in many cases, the survival rate of these soldiers, once they've gotten to is above 98%. And nothing even comes close to that. And what we were trying to understand is that the care they're receiving there is fantastic. The care on the VA side is exceptional also. The problem has been in the communication between the two systems.

We have multiple databases and platforms being used and trying to access those medical records, both for the providing of care and also for that transition into the VA. I didn't want to have a situation where, for example, our Agent Orange exposures in our Vietnam veterans, they found themselves in an adversarial situation with the VA to prove their exposure.

And one of the things is I wanted to see how this documentation was happening, say, for example, for concussive blast injury. Maybe soldier was near one of these blasts. They got up, dusted themselves off and continued to fight. And if this happened multiple times and there's no recording of it, we do know that the medical research shows that those multiple concussions, even slight, can cause long-term problems for them.

KERRI MILLER: Let me understand what you're saying here. So your concern is that what's happening on the battle at these military hospitals, battlefield hospitals in Iraq may not being be communicated--

TIM WALZ: That's correct.

KERRI MILLER: --to their doctors who are treating them when they get back home here in the US, is that it?

TIM WALZ: That is correct. And this is not something that the private sector out here is immune to also. This idea of electronic medical records is, of course, a big issue to bring about the quality of care, the lack of mistakes that would be made.

But one of the issues is that we don't have the ability right now very smoothly to have a universal way of communicating, and that should be bidirectional. For example, if a surgeon finds a soldier on the operating table, the CT scan or the X-rays or the labs that were taken at the previous facility should have been uploaded, make it easy for them to look.

But they should also be able to draw down when that soldier first got in. Maybe they had a knee injury when they were back in the States in training. And that might make a difference on the care. And then, of course, when they get to the VA of transferring that record so that it's a continuum of care.

KERRI MILLER: Did you have a chance to talk to some of the doctors and the surgeons that are treating the injured soldiers? What did they tell you that this experience is like?

TIM WALZ: Yeah, the one thing is that the care-- and again, I cannot stress enough that this is unprecedented. They said they-- I guess the term we use is they soldier on with it. But one example I saw is that instead of having a unified record, that they would open up on the soldier's name, say, private Smith, and they would look at their labs, look at their X-rays, look at their shot record or whatever.

They have to query into the big system that has all the shot records and pull out private Smith. And then they have to open another database with a new password in more time and pull out lab records, and then they have to consolidate that all there. And what it does is it takes time. And every time you have a multiple record, you increase the chances of a medical error.

KERRI MILLER: What's the solution to this?

TIM WALZ: I think the solution is-- and I don't think it's legislative, I think it's Congress providing its oversight and changing the way things are done-- is just simply requiring the DOD, the Department of Defense, and the VA to communicate together because everybody has their own little fiefdoms where the army's created their system, the Navy's created their system, the VA's created their system, which, by the way, all are very good.

The people at the Mayo Clinic tell me that the VA's VistA system is probably the best electronic medical record in the world. And the system here is or I think the key is for Congress to say we're not going to allocate more money for multiple platforms.

We're going to ask that you figure out a way to unify these and make sure that there's-- from when a soldier enters the military till the time they enter the VA, there's one record that follows them through. So I think it's a combination of making sure the resources are there, but also that the climate is right for people to work together to get it solved.

KERRI MILLER: Congressman, where were you in Iraq and how freely were you able to travel?

TIM WALZ: Yeah, well, I was in Afghanistan also. And in Iraq, we flew into Baghdad International Airport. And then because of weather, they took us by ground transportation up Route Irish, that famous road from the airport into Baghdad. And then we helicoptered up to Balad, a forward operating facility run by the Air Force.

And as far as the ability to travel, extensive security. We had the contract guards, I'm assuming were Blackwater and Triple Canopy everywhere, armored vehicles, bulletproof glass, that type of thing. And we were inside the green zone or inside Balad or the airport facility.

KERRI MILLER: That road, we've all heard the stories of that road from the airport into Baghdad. I mean, I know there's been various names attached to it that it was extremely, extremely dangerous to get from there to Baghdad. What's it like now?

TIM WALZ: Well, I know they didn't want to take that road. They would have rather flown, which says something. And then when we went, we, of course, had an armored convoy, and they had the lights flashing ahead of us. And Iraqis, you weave from side to side in the road. You don't stay in one line very fast.

And they have an advanced vehicle that's blows a horn and flashes lights to get everybody off to the side. And the Iraqis instantly pull over because the signs on these vehicles we have that says, if you don't, you are subject to lethal force. For us, we were safe. We had a lot of guards around us. But it wasn't a drive to your local mall, that's for sure.

KERRI MILLER: What impression just from the short amount of time that you spent in Iraq and some of the discussions that you had with the people there, what's your sense of what day-to-day life is like? Of course, we're hearing a lot of news that the surge has really changed the security situation there.

TIM WALZ: Well, I don't think there's any denying that we've seen a decrease in deaths, at least in the short-term. But the problem from the beginning of this conflict is an oversimplification. I lived for a few years overseas, and of course, my civilian job before I got here was as a cultural studies teacher.

And I think it's the idea that you could be in a country for 20 hours and make an assessment on a snapshot situation is, I think, pretty tenuous. And the complexity of this issue and with the surge, the surge, again, I think it's critically important was a means to an end to change those fundamental systemic things in Iraqi society that could bring about lasting peace.

KERRI MILLER: You're talking about the political reconciliation?

TIM WALZ: That's correct. And the economic, I think, is a big one, because one thing I did do is I went to see all these detainees, 30,000 of them, and they're everything from petty criminals to Al-Qaeda bombers. And of course, in the fallout of Abu Ghraib, we took a new approach to this. We're educating them. We're giving them a skill. We're bringing in moderate clerics to talk to them about a more moderate version of Islam.

But the fact of the matter is, in Iraq, 90% of these detainees by self-confession are part of the insurgency based on economic needs. Now, with that being the case, if you want to keep them from being insurgents, you need to give them a livelihood that brings stability.

And there was a report this week that came out from the Government Accountability Office in The New York Times that said, we only spent 4.4% of the reconstruction dollars last year. So we're not building the economy. There's no lasting jobs. Unemployment rates are as high as they've ever been. And what we've done is that we've done a fantastic job by the heroics, and I think a strategy of counterinsurgency that should have been used six years ago to pacify areas.

Now, the question is, if you want long-term pacification, you need to give these people an opportunity for economic gain. You need to have a government that they believe works for them, and you need to move forward on that.

So I think someone coming in and looking at a street and in that few seconds that you pass by a bomb doesn't blow up to say things are better, that's not the case. And I'm sure not denying that gains have been made, but I think also I don't think anybody's kidding themselves, especially in Afghanistan, as another one. We're going to unfortunately see those numbers creep up in a spring offensive.

KERRI MILLER: Yeah, 3,000 more marines headed there very soon, according to Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

TIM WALZ: Absolutely. And I heard very clearly from the commanders there the same situation. That they don't believe their provincial reconstruction teams, these PRTs, have the resources necessary. And an example of this is they showed me an organizational chart of one of these teams, and it's the military to provide security, but then it's local contractors and it's being headed by USAID, Aid for International Development and the State Department. But on their organizational chart, the State Department and USAID were vacant.

And so I think our military, of course, is in the business of pacifying, taking land, and then as a tool of diplomacy to move to the next level. And I think I'm very, very nervous that this number of 4.4%-- now, keep in mind, when General Petraeus and Ambassador Crocker testified in September, they said that number was 25%.

It turns out they were counting on Iraqis to give them this information. And I don't deny that they on their best judgments gave those numbers. The fact of the matter was the Iraqis were giving best-case scenarios that didn't materialize.

KERRI MILLER: First district Congressman Tim Walz is with us this morning from Washington. We're talking about his recent trip to Iraq and to Pakistan. He was there primarily to take a look at the medical process that a wounded soldier, marine sailor, might experience.

If they're wounded on the battlefield in Iraq, what's the path that they take from the battlefield, perhaps, to Germany and then back to the United States? And how well coordinated are those efforts to treat these wounded soldiers, sailors, marines? So taking a look at that, but also asking Congressman Walz about his experience while he was in Iraq and his ideas about what happens next in that area.

We're also going to talk about the economy, of course, Congress taking a look at perhaps a stimulus package in light of what many believe is an upcoming recession. So talking about all of that, if you'd like to join our conversation 1-800-242-2828. If you're listening in the metro area, 651-227-6000. If you're online this morning, minnesotapublicradio.org. Click on Send a Question.

Republican Congresswoman Michele Bachmann is going to be with us after noon. She has also recently been to Iraq. And she is also going to weigh in on what's happening with the economy and what Congress might be able to do about it. 1-800-242-2828, 651-227-6000, online at minnesotapublicradio.org and click on Send a Question.

Congressman, back to Iraq here for just a moment. The Democrats running for president have all conceded that the surge for what it was supposed to accomplish has-- I think there's widespread agreement that there is no political reconciliation.

But they say if they are elected-- these are the front running candidates-- that they'll begin to pull troops out of Iraq very quickly. I wonder if you think it's wise to be committing to a strategy like that, given the fact that there are still so many unknowns, and given the fact that General Petraeus could come in and say, look, we need more time. And the results might be worth having more time.

TIM WALZ: Yeah, well, General Petraeus's job is-- and I think he's doing a fantastic job at it-- is to assess the tactical situation from a military perspective. The elected leadership of this country is to look at what an overarching foreign policy is for the United States.

And one of the issues that's always troubled many of us is that the presence of US soldiers doing that front line work, the front line police work and things, one, is it's incredibly dangerous. Two is it allows the Iraqis not to have to take personal responsibility. And three is our president in many cases ferments that anxiety and that backlash that's coming out of these insurgencies.

So the idea that troops are coming out, they are coming out regardless of who's in, and they're going to come out by summer. And many of those fire brigades will be out by July, which I think many people need to realize is about the fastest pace you can do so in an environment that provides protection for our soldiers.

I think there is a need and there has been, and that this year that all of our efforts were focused on is changing the strategy. If you recall three years ago, stay the course, don't talk about it, everything's fine, we're next corner, all of that. Well, had that not happened and that people asked the questions and forced the issues as we have done, I don't think that the insurgency would have got the foothold that it got.

So I don't think it's unwise to talk about this. I think there needs to be listening to the experts. I think in my case, I want to know why isn't USAID? Why isn't 95% of the reconstruction dollars being spent? Why are we not focusing more on that effort? If 90% of the insurgency in Iraq is economic based, it seems to me that would be the way to take care of it. Instead of fighting a symptom, fight the problem.

KERRI MILLER: But I don't know that you're specifically answering my question, which is here are these candidates for president, for the Democratic nomination for president, saying, I don't care what the situation is. I want to begin to redeploy large numbers of troops out of Iraq very shortly after I take office. And I'm saying--

TIM WALZ: I don't think that's-- no, yeah. And then I agree, Kerri. I don't think it's probably wise to say that you don't care about what the situation is. One of the things is that I've always been very concerned about when you're pulling partial numbers of troops out, what about those that are left? And that is a deep concern. Those who want every troop out, it's not quite so simple.

And when you start to do a redeployment, which is the second most dangerous military exercise as opposed to the initial invasion, you have to be very, very careful about that. And the situation has to warrant that if we're going to leave a contingency force there that's going to help focus on reconstruction, it needs to be left in a manner that is safe and security can be provided for them.

So I would say I'm not so sure. I think the willingness to move in a new direction and to bring those combat troops out is exactly the way we need to go. But it needs to be based on the situation on the ground, and it needs to be based on a long range plan to make that transition to Iraqi control.

KERRI MILLER: 1-800-242-2828, 651-227-6000. If you'd like to join our conversation with first district Congressman Tim Walz, if you're online this morning, minnesotapublicradio.org. Click on Send a Question. Let's talk about the economy.

Ben Bernanke, the chairman of the Federal Reserve, is on Capitol Hill at this hour, actually testifying and saying that he supports the idea of an economic stimulus package. There's a lot of speculation that what the White House wants to do and what Congress will come up with will be two different things. Do you support the idea of giving American taxpayers just cash in hand, a rebate? What kinds of ideas are you thinking about?

TIM WALZ: Well, again, I think it's more complex. I think there needs to be something done. It's not anything that surprises me. We've seen a supply side trickle down philosophy that, of course, President Reagan tried and we saw the results of that. And now President Bush has tried.

So you don't need to see the polls to know American workers are working longer. I think your next guest was proud to talk about Minnesota has more people working longer hours with two jobs. I don't think that's a badge of honor in terms of an economy. It would be better if they were working one job and spending more time with their families.

So I do believe things need to be done, but I think it needs to-- and most of the economists agree that this shot in the arm type of thing with economic stimulus has a very small impact on the long range economy. I think we've got systemic problems here.

And of course, President Bush's solution is permanent tax cuts. I, for one, find it hard to believe that this country is in recession because 1% of the public at the very top of the scale is concerned about what would happen to their tax cuts starting in 2011. So I think it has far more to do with you've got people working longer hours with less pay and prices rising.

So I am supportive of giving relief to people and making sure that it's done, but I don't want to see a knee jerk reaction and one that-- of course, I feel like we did a good thing in fixing the AMT, the alternative minimum tax, but I think we did a disservice by not paying for that. And this economic stimulus package will be much the same debate.

KERRI MILLER: Do you agree, congressman, that we are in a recession or headed for a recession?

TIM WALZ: Well, and I sure don't want to stir fear in everything. My only take on this is I can listen to what the economic experts say, or I can do what-- I go home and talk to my teacher friends and--

KERRI MILLER: What do they say?

TIM WALZ: They say that there's definitely-- this is an economy where-- they're puzzled that the president continues to tell them this is the best economy America has ever seen. And they wonder, boy, I'm making all the right choices. I'm working hard. I'm trying to do the best I can on everything, and I'm not making ends meet.

And I think they realize that what's happened is that we've created an economy that has served a very few number of people and has put us in a very precarious situation for large numbers of working Americans. So they're going to attack this thing from a supply side problem when it's actually a demand side problem.

And of course, I'm not denying that tax policy has a place in economic stimulus. It has a place in economic development. But in and of itself as an isolated mantra that keeps getting repeated, it is not the panacea. You can have all the texts that you want, but if you're not investing in education and infrastructure and creating lasting job growth, it's all going to be for naught. Unless, of course, you're one of the few people who are receiving the tax cut, then it seems pretty good.

KERRI MILLER: Well, do you have some specific ideas then? I mean, we talked specifically about rebates. You say investment is the key. What else?

TIM WALZ: Yeah, the best thing we can do-- I think there's probably going to be an expansion of some unemployment benefits. The biggest thing we can do, probably some changes to food stamps. The housing market is, of course, a much bigger one and probably doesn't belong in a short-term economic. This has to be temporary and targeted in whatever we do.

I think probably whatever you can do to get money in the hands of people who will spend it. Speaking and listening to some of those things, the definition of rich is people who don't need the money. And if you get it to them, I know the theory is that they will invest it and create jobs. Unfortunately, that has not happened in this economy. They may be invested, but it's been overseas. And the jobs have gone with them and the tax revenues have not refilled the coffers.

So I think whatever we do needs to be targeted, needs to get money in the hands of working Americans who will turn around and spend it right away. But again, as I said, that's a pretty short-term fix to what I think are some systemic problems in this.

And I think the mantra of the tax cuts for the ultra wealthy as the single biggest thing to spur the economy hasn't proved to work. And it's creating an economy that your next guest is going to say that the vision of Minnesota is working two jobs and longer hours, and that's a good thing. I disagree with that.

KERRI MILLER: How concerned are you about rising energy prices and rising commodity prices? You're in DC, but we're about to get a real nasty cold snap here over the weekend. And I'm sure a lot of Minnesotans will see this reflected in their energy bills.

TIM WALZ: They will. They'll be back. I know I was home earlier this fall, and I'm the guy who puts plastic over my old house windows to save some money. It's going to happen. Obviously, when people are concerned and they're saving money, we saw a terrible holiday season in terms of buying. We saw terrible job reports in Minnesota.

And people need to make no mistake about this. This is not like the sun rising or gravity, a natural order of the universe. These were decisions that were made. The Congressional Research Service talked about the national debt. 98% of the debt growth can be attributed to legislative decisions. So this is leadership making decisions based on ideology that they can't prove in any possible way.

So I think people, they start to get nervous, and it's kind of a self-fulfilling prophecy. If you believe things are getting tougher, they are tougher and then you don't spend money. So what we need to do is ensure them that we're changing the way business is being done. We're going to ensure that they don't have to worry about their jobs being shipped overseas. And when we trade, it's done in a fair manner that doesn't put this country at a disadvantage.

KERRI MILLER: Online here from Jeff in Saint Paul, who I think heard you talking about being protected by private contractors when you were in Iraq. What do you think about private security contractors and not just Blackwater? Do you favor really limiting the number of private contractors that can do business in places like Iraq?

TIM WALZ: Well, I do. And I mean, the leadership on the ground will tell you that we've created a system where this nation cannot go to war without private contracts. I'm very, very nervous about that. Their allegiances and their loyalty stand to their corporate shareholders or their corporate CEOs.

They don't go to the commanders. They don't go to this nation. And it creates a situation like you saw with Blackwater, where for whatever reason and as well-founded, as self-defense or whatever, you have a private contractor killing Iraqi citizens, undermining our entire situation.

I think I have some deep concerns with how the money is being spent there. I have some deep concerns with fighting a war with private entities. If this nation is going to do this, it needs to be a concerted effort that we all share in on that.

So the commanders there will tell you, we don't have the soldiers to do this, which would lead me back to Secretary Rumsfeld's famous comment. Now you go to war with the army you have. What he didn't tell you, and that was is that he chose the time and the place. And I disagree with that.

I think we need to make sure if this nation is going to go to war as an extension of our national foreign policy, there is some control over this because these people basically have extraterritoriality. They're not under Iraqi law. They're not under American law. They simply do something like this and they're shifted off. That is a recipe for disaster. It's one that I really question where these people fall under the Geneva Convention and certain treaties we've signed. And it's a big issue.

KERRI MILLER: Let me take a call from Lenny in Bloomington. Hi, you're on Midmorning. Your question.

LENNY: My question is, why stay in a place like Iraq when preemptive invasions and occupation of a country never work? I don't think anyone has ever won a preemptive war. And I would just blow up the bases, and that includes the embassy, which I understand is huge.

TIM WALZ: Yes, it is, it is, and the security that goes into it. Lenny's question is-- and it does have to be answered in this. Where does Iraq fall in our long-term national interest? Where does it fall in terms of the Middle East? And I think we would be remiss not to talk about, obviously, the Middle East and its importance. And those who say otherwise, that oil plays a role in this, I don't think are being genuine. I think it's very disingenuous to say that.

So I think the issue now is-- and this is one that being in Congress that I can tell you I struggle with every single day is the way to disengage ourselves from this situation without leaving a vacuum that could be filled by-- obviously, Afghanistan under the Taliban was one of those examples. And I think the argument that's been made is how do you know what would happen when we leave is a valid one.

But the issue is that I believe the United States can't allow simply situations to roll without us at least trying to influence them. I would argue that this was the wrong way to influence them. I would say that we had a numerous tools in our diplomatic toolbox that were not attempted to be used, but we're there now.

And we need to extract ourselves as quickly as possible, one, because our military can't take the strain, and two, because it does us no good to create more terrorists. We need to figure out things about growth, we need to figure out-- and I would applaud, in this case, at least an attempt to be made in Israel to bring about some of these fundamental systemic problems in the Middle East, like the Israeli-Palestinian issue.

The only thing is I think that leaving-- and I know that the permanent bases and everything is a huge issue. We need to make sure that we have a policy that truly reflects this nation's values not just based on economics, but based on the moral leadership that we've provided for the better part of the last 50 years.

KERRI MILLER: Congressman, I know you've been in Washington a year now. What do you know now that you wish you'd known then when you first started out?

TIM WALZ: Well, I would say the one thing is that at times I think people should know this. It's truly a democracy. I'm never told how to vote. I'm never pressured how to vote. I gather the information. I do the best I can to make an informed decision that's in the best interest of Minnesotans and this country.

And that part is good. I guess the part that's a little bit, I guess, frustrating to me, and I guess I wished I would have been a little less maybe naive in this is that the willingness of people to put aside their ideology for the best interest of the country.

KERRI MILLER: You really didn't realize that after observing Congress all those years?

TIM WALZ: No, no, no. And I think I did. But I think the belief was-- and I still saw it-- is that it's an institution that the Americans love and hate at the same time that they started to see it as detached from them. And I guess maybe I didn't realize how strong that detachment was.

I feel a real sense of responsibility to go back home and to talk as the teacher and to talk as someone who came here as an agent for change, that it can be done, but not to think it's going to be easy. I think that old adage asking Franklin-- I believe it was-- is what kind of government we had at the end of the Constitutional Convention? And he said, a republic, if they can keep it. And that's kind of where we're at.

So I think the biggest surprise is that you always think and you think maybe it's overblown about how partisan some people could be. I've seen where people just blindly turn their eye to facts. And if it doesn't fit their ideological view of the world, that's what they're going to stick with. I would hope I never get into that point, and I feel it's incumbent upon me to try and encourage my colleagues not to go down that road either.

KERRI MILLER: Is it fair to say that happens both on the Republican and Democratic side?

TIM WALZ: Oh, yes. Yes, absolutely. I sure don't want to pass the self-righteousness there. It definitely does. And I'm not saying that people should have to compromise their core values, but I know that-- and I was thinking back to the Ken Burns series on America and the Congress.

They talk about the three most important things Congress should always keep in mind is compromise, compromise, compromise. And we've lost that where it's somehow a badge of honor. If you're so rigid, you'll never compromise on that. And what's held this nation together, such diverse interests is that.

I know when I got here, I said, boy, how in the world did I end up here? And then I met my colleagues and said, how in the world did they end up here? And there's truth in that. But we're in it together. And it's not about talking conciliatory. It's about actually doing it.

KERRI MILLER: Tim Walz is with us from Washington. We're expecting Michele Bachmann to join us for the second half of our conversation. Congressman Walz has recently been to Iraq, also visited Pakistan. And Congresswoman Michele Bachmann also went to Iraq in December. They came home with some pretty different views about the way ahead in Iraq. So we're talking about that this morning. Congressman, you can stay with us.

TIM WALZ: Sure.

KERRI MILLER: All right. Good deal. Thanks very much.

TIM WALZ: Sure. Absolutely.

KERRI MILLER: For being with us, we're hoping that Congresswoman Bachmann will call us in soon. We'll take a break for news. And when we come back, we'll continue our conversation. To the newsroom with Perri Finelli. Hi, Perri.

PERRI FINELLI: Kerri, Federal Reserve chairman Ben Bernanke is again promising to aggressively slash a key interest rate as needed to bolster the economy. Bernanke, in remarks to a congressional panel this morning, is endorsing the concept of an economic stimulus package to avert a recession as long as it is only temporary and is quickly implemented.

Meanwhile, President Bush has decided an economic stimulus package is needed to help the sagging economy. It marks the first time Bush supports government intervention. Until now, the White House said the president was just considering some type of short-term boost.

The Commerce Department reports new home construction dropped by its largest amount in 27 years in 2007, construction fell by almost 25% from 2006. But on Wall Street, stocks are showing some modest gains amid hopes that the economy will dodge a recession through new rate cuts and a government stimulus plan.

Police in North Carolina may have the murder weapon in the killing of a 20-year-old pregnant marine. Police are not describing the item, but say it was given to them by a witness. Investigators believe chief suspect Cesar Laurean may have fled to Mexico.

Three people are hurt after a passenger jet landed short of the runway at London's Heathrow Airport. The airport's operator says the British Airways flight made an emergency landing. The incident has delayed British Prime Minister Gordon Brown's trip to China. Brown's plane was waiting to take off during the crash.

Governor Tim Pawlenty talks today about his K-12 education initiative for the upcoming legislative session. The governor speaks at the Minnesota School Boards Association Leadership Conference in Minneapolis. The parents of a Fridley man are in shock after he died after being shot with a taser by state troopers this week. 29-year-old Mark Backlund was tasered following a traffic accident on 694 in New Brighton. Authorities say he was being uncooperative. His death is under investigation.

Snow for parts of southeastern Minnesota today, 1 to 2 inches expected, high temperatures of 5 degrees in the North, 15 degrees in the South. Right now in the Twin Cities, the air temperature 2 degrees under cloudy skies, the wind chill factor minus 13. It's 9:37. This is Minnesota Public Radio News.

SPEAKER 2: Today's programming is made possible in part by our generous philanthropic partners, including US Bank, serving our communities for over 145 years.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

KERRI MILLER: We're back on Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Kerri Miller. Coming up at 10:00, it's been a big week for the issue of transportation. And we're talking about that with two key legislative leaders what's likely to come out of Governor Pawlenty's bonding bill, the cause of the 35W bridge collapse. Lots of things to talk about on that issue of transportation. And that's coming up at 10:00.

And then I want to remind you to be with us on Friday at 10:00. Navy psychologist Heidi Squier Kraft is going to join us. She wrote a book called Rule Number Two. It's a memoir of her experience being deployed to Iraq as a psychologist, but also dealing with her own anxiety and loss, the separation from her 15-month-old twins and from her husband and her family. Wonderful memoir. Heidi Squier Kraft with us tomorrow at 10:00. Hope you'll stay tuned for that.

Continuing our conversation now this hour. Our thanks to Congressman Tim Walz for being with us for the first part of the hour. And Congresswoman Michele Bachmann joins us now from Washington. Good to have you with us, congresswoman. It's been a long time since I've talked to you.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Good morning, Kerri Miller. What a wonderful opportunity to speak with you. We have snow gently falling in Washington as we speak right now.

KERRI MILLER: It reminds you of Minnesota, I'm sure.

MICHELE BACHMANN: It does. It's beautiful.

KERRI MILLER: Hey, you went to Iraq. You were in Baghdad and Ramadi over the December holidays, and you came back saying that what you saw was nothing short of astounding. Can you give me an anecdote or a story that illustrates what you mean by that?

MICHELE BACHMANN: I'll be happy to. It was such a humbling, inspiring experience to be able to go. I had gone to Iraq in July, and then I also had the chance to be there on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day to thank our troops for their extraordinary work that they've done.

Probably one of the best examples, Kerri, just to illustrate the astounding change would be the fact that when we were in Iraq in July, for times when we were in Baghdad, in the compound in the green zone meeting with Ambassador Ryan Crocker, rockets came in just the one hour that we were meeting with him four times in the compound.

This time when I was there, we were in Ramadi, where it was just a mess in February and March. You wouldn't want to be found on the streets there. This time there were babies. There were old men, children on bicycles. A car dealership opened up for business in the week we were there and the streets of Ramadi. They've absolutely secured the borders in that particular city. There's zero Al-Qaeda there. That was according to General Gaskin, his assessment of Al-Qaeda's strength. That was amazing.

And also, I didn't hear one bullet fired the entire time we were there. We spent the evening on Christmas Eve, going into Christmas Day, in the compound at the ambassador's headquarters on Christmas Eve in Baghdad. And we were told for the last five Christmases, on Christmas Eve, Christmas Day, that they had been fired upon, whether it was mortars or rockets or bullets.

Every Christmas there was a big demonstration that was made, so it was very dangerous there. We were given body armor and helmets to wear and we didn't need them. There wasn't a shot fired. So this is the first time in over five Christmases when there wasn't any sort of firing on the compound on Christmas Eve and Christmas Day. So I was extremely grateful with the progress.

KERRI MILLER: Were you able to-- I'm sure you were surrounded by security because I know that's still the case whenever members of Congress travel there. I mean, was your detail-- I'm just trying to get a sense, though, of what kind of precautions that they're still taking when you travel there, because again, the security situation is still somewhat unpredictable.

MICHELE BACHMANN: We definitely need to continue security, especially when you have members of Congress, because members of Congress are fairly high-profile targets by Al-Qaeda. And so we wouldn't want to put the effort that our servicemen and women are in at risk more by having high-profile targets. That's why we don't announce our itinerary ahead of time where we'll be, because we don't want to give any advantage to the enemy. And so the same security that occurred back in July for members of Congress continues today.

KERRI MILLER: And when you say you're targets from Al-Qaeda, that would be targets also just from the insurgents in Iraq. It's not just specifically Al-Qaeda.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Yes, yes.

KERRI MILLER: Let me ask you this then, since you seem pretty optimistic about the way forward there. 3,000 American troops have died. War costs-- and I know you've heard this number, at half a trillion and maybe soon going higher than that. Tell me if-- as you assess the number of lives that have been given and the amount of money that the United States has spent, whether as you look at all of that, you can say, given where we are today, it's worth it.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Well, I am hopeful that at this point we're on the downward slope of this mountain that we've had to deal with called terrorism with international jihadists. And I say that because on Christmas Eve, we had a fairly long debriefing by General Petraeus for about an hour and 40 minutes, and he went line by line through the progress that was occurring on almost every scale, every metric of measurement.

We've seen progress at a level of about 60% improvement from earlier this year. That's nothing short of astounding. No one would have thought that we would have seen that level of improvement. 60% fewer explosions with the IEDs, 60% fewer civilian deaths. And you can go on with the metrics.

And we were just extremely grateful. And that's why I believe General Petraeus told us that evening that he felt that he was working with the next greatest generation, because we've seen this progress because of the intelligence that we've been able to receive. That's really what changed this year.

We received so much cooperation from the sheikhs, particularly, in the Ambar region. They had confidence in America and in our efforts, and they were willing to give us the intelligence so that we could take out the radical Al-Qaeda elements, the insurgent elements. And together and hopefully now with Iraqis being trained to take over their country, they will be able to provide that security.

Now, one thing that many Minnesotans should know is that General Petraeus said that we have already eliminated one full brigade. So we've already brought home one full brigade of troops. He said that that brigade will not be replaced. And it also looks as though we will continue to draw down troops so that by July of this coming summer, we should be down to something like about 130,000 troops, which is pre-surge levels. So we're very grateful because we are already withdrawing our troops now, and we're already bringing them down.

By the way, he also gave a tremendous compliment to Minnesotans and to the National Guard members that were serving over there because as you know, Kerri, Minnesota supplied the greatest number of surge troops. We supplied about 13% of all troops, which is an incredible number serving over in Iraq. And really, these Minnesotans deserve so much credit because they really are the success story of '07.

I probably met with 65 members of the military from Minnesota while I was there. I had lunch with them on Christmas Day and also on Christmas Eve. And I have to say, the looks on people's faces from July, when there's a lot of tension, to Christmas when there was really great joy and exuberance.

I also met with Minnesotans in Kuwait, who are about to deploy to Kuwait the next day, and they were really looking forward to being successful. In fact, one member of the Minnesota National Guard had told me that it was his job to operate the unmanned aircraft in Iraq. He will sit in a hummer with a computer and operate the unmanned aircraft.

And he told me that it was his goal to make sure that he was able to save at least one life. He's hoping to save the life of a company. That he didn't want to return home until he had at least saved one life in his position. And that's the level of commitment and camaraderie I saw among those troops. They really had formed a band of brothers mindset, so that they were working for each other and working to make sure that they succeeded in the mission.

KERRI MILLER: Congresswoman, one of the things that President Bush talked about on his recent trip to the Middle East is his concerns about Iran. And as you know, there has been a recent assessment released about Iran's nuclear capabilities. There is some reassessment going on about Iran in Iraq.

I want to play something that you said in an interview to a newspaper a year or so ago about Iran, and then ask you if you still have that same level of concern about what Iran is doing in Iraq. So let's listen to this, and then you tell me whether your views have changed since then.

[AUDIO PLAYBACK]

- There's already agreement made. They are going to get half of Iraq and that is going to be a terrorist safe haven zone where they can go ahead and bring about more attacks in the Middle East region and then to come against the United States.

[END PLAYBACK]

KERRI MILLER: You were saying that you were very concerned that Iran was trying to annex part of Iraq. Do you still believe that?

MICHELE BACHMANN: Well, I didn't say that I believe that I thought that Iran was going to annex Iraq. I said that Iran had designs at that point in the struggle--

KERRI MILLER: Well, you said that an agreement had already been made.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Even the Star Tribune newspaper was saying that they were pooh-poohing the fact that Iran had designs on Iraq. And the fact is Iran had a very strong interest in being involved in Iraq, and they were involved in creating more chaos. And we know that later they were behind many of the IEDs that were explosive devices that were placed and killed American servicemen.

And they were involved in trying to keep the area quagmire and in chaos. And I think what we found is that that proved true, that Iran was, in fact, involved in Iraq. And the national intelligence assessment that came out was dealing with their nuclear capability.

One thing that we don't have complete knowledge on is how many centrifuges they have been able to develop. We know that they have designs against Iraq, but we don't know fully the capability. But Israel, I know, is very, very concerned about Iran and the designs and intentions that they have made to come against Israel as well.

KERRI MILLER: So do you believe what you believed then that an agreement has been made somehow and Iran is going to come in and run part of Iraq and use it as a terrorist safe haven? Or have your views changed since you've traveled there and you've heard recent assessments about Iran?

MICHELE BACHMANN: Again, as I had said before, at the time that I made the remarks that I made, there were many media outlets that were suggesting and stating quite plainly that Iran did not have designs in Iraq. The fact is they did, and that's been proved out to be true that Iran did have an interest in keeping Iraq unstable.

And so I think that it's really a testament, again, to the American servicemen and women, how they have been able to bring much more peace and stability to that region in their time being there. And I think also the world community has looked at Iran, especially in the Middle East-- if you look at Saudi Arabia, for instance, Saudi Arabia does not want to see Iran succeed in Iraq because that will lead to more instability in the Middle East.

And that's one thing that I think that we are trying to see in our efforts toward peace, because after all, that's what this is about. This is about bringing more peace to the Middle East region, to calm tensions and not fire them up. And we want to see this calming continue to occur.

KERRI MILLER: I want to ask you about the economy. Let me take a call here from somebody that has a question about the economy, and then we'll talk about the stimulus package that Congress may soon be considering. To Mike in Bram, Minnesota. Hi, Mike. You're on Midmorning.

MIKE: Hi, good morning. My question is, I think we've wound up spending way too much time on overseas. And this also includes-- even with the Clinton administration, too, I mean, with the NAFTA and all this stuff that's happened. And I've worked commercial construction for 30 years and I haven't seen it this bad. I saw it close to this bad during the Reagan administration.

And I feel like they need to take and get back to having the large companies become more of a statesman where they work better with unions, they work better with our people here. And I think that where we could get back to where we quit bleeding so many jobs. I guess that's my comment.

KERRI MILLER: All right. Thanks very much for your view. Congresswoman Bachmann, I know you've been doing some thinking about this. Where do you come down on what to do to stop what may be a slide towards the recession, or to help people that may be most affected by a recession?

MICHELE BACHMANN: Well, I'm glad that Mike called and that he brought that up, because I think people are very concerned about where the economy is going to go, and rightly so. Especially in the construction industry, he's involved in commercial, there are some aspects of commercial construction that have been going. Some shopping centers have continued to go up, commercial buildings have continued to go up. But not all parts of that industry have fared as well, especially in the housing industry.

I had a meeting with the Andersen Windows company recently, and they are now the largest manufacturer of windows in the United States. We want this industry to succeed. And one thing that the CEO had mentioned to me is that they are looking for stability in the industry, and they're seeing that people aren't willing to put money down to purchase new homes or to move on because people are skittish right now. They're nervous about what the economy will do.

And I think Congress needs to take that into consideration and make sure that we aren't heaping more burdens on the American people. We at Congress need to tighten our belts. And we need, I think, to take a very strong, close look at our budgets and see where we can trim our spending here in Congress.

And then, at the same time, the best stimulus, if you look empirically over the last 40 years, the best stimulus is when we have given as many tax breaks and tax cuts to job creators so that we can create more jobs back home. That was true under President Kennedy. He called for tax cuts that worked very well also under President Reagan. President Bush and the Congress passed tax cuts in 2003, and that kept the economy going very strong until just recent times.

And I think just the wrong formula right now would be to increase spending at the federal level and increase tax rates. I think that would be the wrong stimulus. And the right way to go, I think, would be to cut taxes on job providers, which is why yesterday I had been at a press conference where we called for cutting the corporate tax rate from 35% down to 25%. We have about the second highest corporate tax rate in the world. If we can cut taxes on job providers, those job providers will create more jobs.

And people in Minnesota are really smart people. We have very, very intelligent people in Minnesota and also very hardworking people in Minnesota. They want to work. They want to have a job.

KERRI MILLER: If you want to cut the corporate--

MICHELE BACHMANN: But we won't have jobs if the taxes are high,

KERRI MILLER: Congresswoman, if you want to cut the corporate tax rate, does that mean that you don't approve of the idea of not doing that and just giving rebates? Because Ben Bernanke is on Capitol Hill today and just a few minutes ago said getting money into the hands of consumers is really the answer.

MICHELE BACHMANN: And the best way to get money in the hands of consumers is a job so that people have jobs. Like Mike is saying in the construction industry, it's tough times. He wants to work. But we could give Mike a check from the government, or we could make sure that businesses are growing at a rapid rate and creating more jobs.

KERRI MILLER: So you oppose that? I just want to be clear about where you are on the stimulus package. You oppose the idea of cash check rebates. You think cutting the corporate tax rate is the answer.

MICHELE BACHMANN: I think the more that we can allow individuals to make their own economic decisions, the better off we are. I haven't seen a stimulus package yet on the order that Ben Bernanke is calling for, and I haven't seen a Democrat stimulus package yet either.

I am open to looking at all options on the table because Americans are very skittish right now, and Minnesotans are very concerned. We have a fairly diversified economy in Minnesota. We've weathered a lot of the economic variations that have occurred that have hit other states harder than Minnesota.

And so I am open to hearing whatever alternatives are on the table because I want to make sure-- I agree with most Minnesotans who want to make sure that the economy remains strong. And so I just don't want to add more burdens to the average Minnesotan right now. I want to relieve their burdens and make sure that more jobs get created.

KERRI MILLER: I have a couple minutes left here, but you know that there are already candidates declared for your seat. Characterize what you think this re-election campaign is going to be like.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Well, I'm going to continue to work very hard for the people of the sixth district. My first year here in Congress has been so exciting, very challenging, and very rewarding because of the issues that are facing our country, both on an international front and on the domestic front. It's been such an honor just to represent people--

KERRI MILLER: What do you think the tone of-- and I understand that. What do you think the tone of the campaign is going to be like?

MICHELE BACHMANN: Well, I'm going to continue to go out as I have all year and talk to people in Minnesota, in the sixth district to know what their concerns are and let them know that I am fighting here in Congress to make sure that we can lower their tax burden, lower government regulation and hassle on their life, because people are just feeling a kind of an increased hassle index, if you will. And I want them to know that I am hearing that, I'm responsive to their needs, and I want to work to make sure that we can work together and solve those problems here in Washington.

KERRI MILLER: All right. Working on the hassle factor.

MICHELE BACHMANN: That's right.

KERRI MILLER: Congresswoman Bachmann, thanks very much. Good to have your views, and I hope you'll come back soon.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Oh, Kerri, I'd be delighted to--

KERRI MILLER: Appreciate it.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Have a great day and a great weekend.

KERRI MILLER: All right. Thanks. You too.

MICHELE BACHMANN: Bye-bye.

KERRI MILLER: Sixth district congresswoman Michele Bachmann talking to us this morning about her December trip to Iraq, where she visited Baghdad and Ramadi, and also talking to us about this economic stimulus package that Congress is getting ready to consider. Congresswoman Bachmann saying that she favors corporate tax cuts over the idea of rebates back to individual consumers, but open to the idea when a package is formed.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying that she is working this morning with her opposites in the house to try to come up with some kind of package. Further coverage on Bernanke's testimony on Capitol Hill this afternoon on All Things Considered and online at minnesotapublicradio.org.

At 10:00, we're talking about another issue that is on the minds of Minnesotans, and that's transportation. Of course, it's going to be on the minds of legislators, too, as they get back into session in February. We're talking about Governor Pawlenty's bonding bill, talking with two key legislators who know a lot about the issue of transportation. Does the governor have his priorities right? We'll get some views on that.

Also, talking about the news that came out earlier this week about the cause of the 35W bridge collapse. And we'll take your calls and questions. I hope you'll join us. Stay with us through the second hour of Midmorning.

Coming up on Friday at 9:00, we're talking about how economics are shaping the race for president. This issue, what are voters saying in South Carolina? What are the issues that voters are most concerned about when it comes to the economy in places like Nevada?

Two big states coming up here, getting ready to caucus in Nevada on Saturday and South Carolina for the Republicans, a primary there on Saturday. So we're talking politics and economics and how economics is shaping politics. That's coming up tomorrow morning at 9 o'clock. Hope you're with us for that. This is Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Kerri Miller.