(00:00:00) Two million dollars in emergency funds to help combat diseases like chronic wasting disease, which has infected Wisconsin's deer population. Minnesota public radio's are and galba Lee has more the Senate Appropriations Committee approved the funds as part of a larger anti-terrorism Bill Wisconsin and other states are eligible to apply for portions of the money. The state is still waiting to hear back from the US Department of Agriculture about it's 18 million dollar request for emergency funding chronic wasting disease was discovered late this winter in Southwestern Wisconsin. Not much is known about the Fatal brain wasting disease state wildlife authorities. Hope to keep the disease contained to an area around Madison with plans to kill 15,000 dear. But earlier this week officials announced a deer killed outside. The infected Zone had tested positive for the disease Aaron globally, Minnesota Public Radio Rochester the forecast partly cloudy to mostly cloudy in the north where there's a chance of showers, maybe some mixed precipitation cooler Statewide. It's well as windy light snow in Baudette right now. It's 60 in the Twin Cities. That's news from NPR programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by the Cunningham group Architects committed to partnering with clients to realize their Vision through the design of the built environment. It's six minutes now past eleven o'clock. And good morning. Welcome to midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I remember coming into the legislature 32 years ago as a flaming liberal partisan (00:01:30) Democrat and I moved (00:01:33) more to the middle and I (00:01:35) came to the conclusion that you know, the best way you can pass a (00:01:38) bill is a Republicans vote counts as just as much as a Democrats vote and you better learn to get along no doubt about it, Senator Doug Johnson did learn to get along and he did pass lots of bills as a matter of fact dfl state. Senator Doug Johnson along with Senate Majority Leader Roger mole has probably had more impact on state policy than any other legislator in the last 20 to 30 years. But like Senator Mo Senator Doug Johnson is retiring from the Minnesota Legislature bringing to an end to legislative career that spanned 32 years including 21 years is the chair of the influential Senate tax committee and the past two years as Chair of the equally influential Senate finance committee and Senator Doug Johnson was a major player right up to the end co-chairing the joint budget balancing committee that was charged with trying to offset. This year's state budget. Deficit Senator Doug Johnson has joined us this morning to talk about the just concluded legislative session talk about his career and the legislature and if you would like to join our conversation, we invite you to give us a call. Our Twin City area number is 6512276 thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free and that number is 1-800-218-4243 or 1-800 to for to to 828 Senator Johnson. Thanks for joining us. Good morning. (00:03:05) Gary nice to be on your program today. I'm sitting up on the banks of Lake Vermilion away from the state capitol. (00:03:11) Oh for Pete's sake and that's just where you want to be, isn't it? (00:03:14) It really yeah all those years. Driving back and forth on weekends from from the north to the Twin Cities and then living in an apartment down there looking at a concrete parking lot. It's really a nicer out here looking at the Ducks Swimming by in the fish Chef flop flopping around (00:03:37) any second thoughts whatsoever Senator mean you've been at this for over 30 years. I would think there'd be some regrets about leaving the legislature. (00:03:45) You know, it's like a huge burden has been lifted off. My shoulders not only did. I have a lot of statewide responsibilities cheering major committees through the years, but huge economic problems in northeastern Minnesota, and those haven't gone away, but I think it was just in my mind time to leave always tried my best and wanted to move on to other Ventures. (00:04:11) Why would you talk a little bit here at the beginning of the program about the just concluded session before we get into some broader subjects? And I suppose the place to start would be the budget bill that you were intimately involved in putting together heavy on accounting shifts used up. Most of the state reserves some spending cuts, but no tax increases. Are you satisfied with how that worked (00:04:34) out? Well, at least o2o3 did get balance of Ventura cannot on a lot certain programs as particularly concerned about a property lack real relief AIDs that go to a local governments, but I don't totally disagree with the governor's disappointment in the way the legislature balance the budget in past legislative sessions, even when we had a republican Governors and major deficits like this, we would cut spending which we did this year. We would use some accounting shifts which we did way too many this year and would raise some revenues and I think most minnesotans are going to get the shock of their life next year when they see all the major. Deficit problems we're going to have and not even money to provide inflation for our school. So it was a big disappointment many members of the legislature particularly House Republicans had signed this tax pledge against raising taxes when we had two million two billion dollars in the bank and there should have been some more flexibility, but unfortunately there wasn't and I think minnesotans will be paying for that mm recession. (00:05:46) Well, as you know, Senator dfl or is in general and for a while there are used especially were always criticized by the Republicans as being too quick to increase spending and to certainly too quick to increase taxes. How do you plead (00:06:02) well, you know, the Republicans are not shy about trying to fund their pet project. So it's not that they're that much against spending if it if it affects their districts, but you know poll after poll. I'll show that with this kind of a deficit that most minnesotans were willing to see more balanced. And again, I think they'll see the consequences and 2003 of this legislature failing to provide a more balanced solution (00:06:34) the bonding bill now the governor got out his samurai sword and cut about 36 percent of the funding that was included in the big Capital Improvements Bill arguing that it was largely at a cut so much largely because the legislature left the state finances in such precarious condition. Would you agree with the governor? (00:06:59) Well, there was no alternative that the governor could have used and that would have been to allow these projects to become law but the governor then has total authority to not release those individual bonding projects and at that time when there when there was a balance and the 0405 but It they could have been released but instead, you know, he was angry as noses out of joint. He didn't get the North Star Quarter transit project which many of us supported and and just slashed and burned and so I'm very disappointed. I know in my region of the state we have many construction trades people out of work. There was one particular project for some work at the Mesabi Community College. We've got a lot of unemployed LTV workers going there trying to get some additional training Governor Ventura has been up to the range said that he was going to help the LTV workers and he slammed the door in their face with these vetoes. So I'm really disappointed. Yes, as are many legislators around the state and the governor did had a have an alternative (00:08:08) retiring state senator Doug Johnson has joined us this morning to take a look at what has happened at the legislature low these Two years that he has served at the Minnesota Legislature Senator Johnson will clearly one of the most influential legislators of the last 30 years and without to be interesting today to quiz him on on the legislature. If you would like to join our conversation, give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand. That's our Twin City area number six five. One two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free and that number is 1-800-218-4243 or 1-800 to for to to 828 a senator besides yourself is understand at 39 other legislators have said already that they're going to retire that's about 20% of the legislature. Is that kind of turnover a good thing? (00:09:07) Well, I think some turnover is good. You certainly will lose a lot of experience but you know won't take that long for these legislators to vet come in. The ones that will remain to fill fill the shoes of those who have our departing so I don't think it's that big of an issue. Oh, I'm sure that Minnesota's will be in good hands with the new legislature that comes in. (00:09:35) It seems though that you're part of the world Northern Minnesota is certainly going to lose a lot of clout with your retirements and Hermos leaving the Senate. So nervous are denounced that he's leaving the Senate Senator lourey host of other pretty influential legislators with lots of (00:09:53) seniority. That is true. Gary Northern Minnesota is taking us special hit with retirements and had a time of a lot of economic problems in the Northeast and the Northwest in all probably the timing could have been better. But what I've been telling my colleagues from northern Minnesota is they're going to have to work a little harder. They're gonna have to be willing to stay in st. Paul on the weekends when meetings are going on. When they can use their influence and they'll gain seniority as well. So they'll fill the gaps and and I'm sure that there still will be a strong Northern presence in the legislature despite. The retirement of many people with senior members. I'm supporting Roger mole for governor. I know he'll be a good Governor if elected for all of the state but won't forget Greater Minnesota. Like the current governor has been doing (00:10:45) how has the legislature changed over 30 years has it changed very much as you know, we've heard for example. Oh my goodness. It's so much more partisan than it used to be. We played that that excerpt from your comments at the beginning of the program. Noting that you came in as a fire-breathing liberal and kind of moderated over time as a legislature changed a lot. (00:11:08) Well, the House of Representatives is much more partisan than the Senate until the last night. We actually did have a very good working relationship. The Senate Republicans. I think the situation the house is the margins are so close that it that it creates more partisanship over there. I think if there's one thing that I've seen change in the 32 years is that many of the newer legislators are creatures of their political parties and I've made no secret of the fact that that I think the organized Democratic party tends to be liberal and the organized Republican party is too far to the right. And so we are getting more legislators that have that ideology of their parties. There was less of that when I first came in there was more moderation find finding that Common Ground than there is today. So that's the biggest change that I've seen. (00:12:11) Is there. Do you have any recommendations as you leave the legislature as to how that might be changed? (00:12:18) I really really don't I think though that candidates should not be against running against an endorsed candidate in their party if they don't feel comfortable. I think just to go by the party endorsement and be a rubber stamp is nothing something I never did and I think the public should look and try to get more moderation into their (00:12:48) legislature. How about try partisan government Senator, we've been experimenting now with that for the better part of four full years. How in your mind has that worked (00:13:00) out? Well, it's been a disaster. It just has not has not worked. This year was the worst of all but It doesn't work, you know the the constant bickering and name-calling and bashing and things that have gone on there has not been a good working relationship with with this governor. And you know, it just has not been healthy. So I thought that it would be a good test a good trial that would be ways for people to get together and work out common Solutions, but it's been a big failure in my mind. (00:13:42) You think that's a function of the personalities involved or is it a function of the structure that that 3-headed government just doesn't (00:13:49) work. Well just do a case in point. We had bipartisan government before where as an example. Let me use Governor Arne Carlson a republican governor in 1991 a democratic House and Senate and we were we were able to work out a severe serious budget crisis at that time by each side doing some giving and this year and what I call a failed tax reform Bill last year that really wasn't fair to a lot of regular minnesotans and I think they'll see that when they get there the taxes on their home next year. It hasn't worked very well. And yes, the governor is a personality has certainly played into this. He just was not engaged very much in the process at the same time. Let me be positive about most of his commissioners. I have a very high regard for many of the Commissioners that served under the governor, but the governor's personality and bashing did not help (00:15:01) we're talking this hour with retiring state. Senator Doug Johnson who has served 32 years in the Minnesota Legislature 21 years as the chair of the influential tax committee the past two years. He served as chair of the Senate finance committee. He has left major imprint on state policy over these many years and we thought it'd be good to talk with him as he rides off into the sunset here. And if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to for 228286512276 thousand or one hundred two, four two two eight two eight first caller is right from your territory there Senator Audrey's on the line from cook. Go ahead Audrey. (00:15:50) How dark this is Audrey Audrey right now and I just want we were listening to you and feeling very sad. You aren't going to be there anymore. But we're happy you're going to be back up north here with us. He thinks we just want to thank you so much for all you've done for court and for northern Minnesota, and we wish you the best we love. Thank you very much Audrey. (00:16:14) Senator, you know there were people who have suggested over the years that you sent too much money to Northern Minnesota, especially when Rudy perpich fellow Northern Minnesota Alum was the governor that too much money was going north legitimate criticism in retrospect, (00:16:34) you know, if you really look at all the facts if we would have brought so much money North we would have a very strong economy right now. You wouldn't see our communities with its housing stock deteriorating with a with a lack of quality jobs with huge declining enrollment in our school. So most of that started on a partisan basis when Rudy perpich was governor and it just continued and continued but you know, we got our share but I don't think more than we were justified in getting and again the bottom line is people who criticize should come. Biron see our streets are not paved with gold. They're full of (00:17:17) Chuckles. Now, you have worked hard on the issue of trying to boost economic development in northeastern Minnesota, and we've heard for years and years about the need for diversification on the Iron Range. So that folks could move away from such a heavy dependence on the taconite industry. As any progress actually been made in that direction. Are there a lot of other good paying jobs on the Range? (00:17:44) Well, I have been very personally involved in that and have spent a lot of my time. In fact calling and meeting with Chief Executive officers of numerous businesses. Even this morning I talk personally with Ted dico who's trying to acquire a portion of Fingerhut. They had a call center in Dev with that where 365 people lost their jobs. And so we're trying to fill that in blue. Is Blue Shield and Delta Dental have within the last year or so broad customer service operations that Iron Range, of course North with Northwest Airlines has over 600 World perks workers and Chisholm. But without the natural resource Industries, I'm talking about a forestry and and taconite. We just don't have the kind of quality jobs that we need and there are some real good possibilities in the minerals area. Now, we're working with a real reputable Canadian firm that's looking at environmentally way good way to process copper and nickel and other pressure sores. I'm pretty optimistic. Something's going to happen. There's also a mesaba nugget project going on at Silver Bay that will increase the value of the or is it leaves the Iron Range? So, you know minerals and new developments are very slow. There's a lot of Permitting and that's necessary and I think it's But the Investments are so huge and so with the economy and its situation right now and all the competition globally it's tough to get done. But I'm feeling more optimistic today than I have for a long time about diversifying and making that taconite more valuable closer to a steel product as it leaves the range and that would be a huge huge assistance for people all over in northern Minnesota. (00:19:42) Jim's on the line from Virginia with a question. Go ahead Jim. (00:19:46) Thank you. Congratulations Senator on 32 years. My question is if in your 32 years you seen a lot of Governors come and go in your opinion who was the easiest to get along with and who was the best for Minnesota in those 30 plus years? Well, I'm trying to think I think the I think that the two best in my mind were Rudy perpich and Arne Carlson, that would be my my guess of those that did most for Minnesota. I didn't always agree with either of them but they put solid ministrations together. They tried to work with the legislature and that would be the two I would select (00:20:33) Senator. Did you see much difference between Rudy perpich one and Rudy perpich to for folks who aren't up on their Minnesota History. We should note that he actually served during two different times late the latter part of the 70s and he was away for four years and then he served through the 80s was there much difference in the two purpose (00:20:53) administration's. Well, I'm going to speak now from the regional standpoint. I think that he got so much criticism that he was only doing In things for for Northeastern Minnesota am Iron Range that he did kind of back off and his last term on economic development issues and Northeastern Minnesota because he just brutally attack him called him names. And so that was one change that I observed as from a regional standpoint on the Statewide standpoint, you know, he was a man of vision and creativity and and love people and I didn't see much change in that between administrations. He was just so engaging with the people of Minnesota. And you know, I think one of the reasons he lost his last election was the Republicans were able to paint him as an iron Ranger and only cared about the Iron Range which was totally untrue, but but it but it's tucked in it worked (00:22:00) Kathy your question, please (00:22:02) yes this question. Has to do with the bonding issue and the line-item vetoes that the governor has has has done. What I want to know is given the personality of the governor and given that the legislature knew darn. Well what he would do with that bonding Bill, how could you have let that go down to the wire where you wouldn't have a chance to override vetoes? Well, that's a good question in that was unfortunate that because there was a we were very close to a settlement toward the end where we would have had time to override The veto it got hung up over a couple issues and why I'm not sure but it did but looking back. I feel bad that there couldn't have been agreement earlier so that we could have overridden a number of these vetoes. We did it in previous session, but there was the feelings were so bad between the house and the Senate. Unfortunately that it just did not get done (00:23:07) Frank. You're up next. Go ahead, please (00:23:10) hi Duggan. Thank sure your service. I appreciate it and Doug one of the questions I had was the I Triple R B. I know you've served there and you've been kind of an ethical voice there and yet as we talked about try partisanship the I Triple R B for for the better has been rather dysfunctional, I guess in my opinion. There are two as you've left your leaving. Do you have any Reflections on the hyperbola how it could function better? Well, I've been pretty public about my disappointments. I have been very concerned about some of the spending that's been going on out-of-state travel staying in expensive hotels not really focusing enough on creating high-quality jobs. So all I can say is that I hope that the that the next Administration and whether it's a Democrat or Republican Public Republican Administration will bring someone in with real strong management skills try to cut down a lot of the overhead costs and get people energized work with good quality companies to sell the great Workforce that we have in northeastern Minnesota and do a better job and I've been pretty public and outspoken about my frustrations with that agency. It's an agency that could be the best of any agency in the country. We haven't gotten to that level yet. (00:24:34) Are you please Senator that your your name is now been attached to that economic protection trust fund for Northeastern Minnesota used to be just the northeastern Minnesota of trust fund. Now it's the Douglas J Johnson economic protection trust fund. Usually you have to be dead to have that happen that don't you (00:24:52) well, that was a high honor and it actually was a an idea of represent of Ronnie Abrams the Republican house texture some of that I worked with for years and we respected each Other a lot so that certainly was an honored because we look at that fund as is our future and and I'm not going away. I'm still going to be working on economic development for our state (00:25:15) retiring state. Senator, Doug Johnson has joined us this hour to reflect on his years in public office. Senator Johnson has served in the legislature for 32 years. Most of those years is the head of either the very influential tax committee or the equally influential finance committee. He has had a major impact on state policy low these last 20 to 30 years and he has joined us this hour to talk about the legislature talk about his career as well. If you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to for 22828. We'll get to more of your calls for Senator Johnson and just a couple of minutes programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Kelly Hannaford and battles helping Minnesota companies provide cost-effective employee benefit and executive compensation plans. Setting the pace for the daily (00:26:16) commute. Yeah, try to keep the workers safe that are working directly on the side (00:26:21) of the road as well as (00:26:22) the drivers that are on the turnpike reminding them to go the speed limit. (00:26:26) I'm David brancaccio getting paid to help the rest of us slow down plus the rest of the numbers Wall Street later on Marketplace from PRI. Marketplace's on weeknights 6 at 6:30 here on Minnesota Public Radio, by the way, did you know you can make a Minnesota Public Radio a part of your estate planning for more information about the Coleman Berry Legacy Circle call 1-800 to to 7 2011 and ask for Pat cook right now Stephen John joins us with some headlines Stephen. Thank you. Gary. President Bush has arrived in Moscow where he plans to sign a nuclear arms reduction treaty speaking in Germany earlier today. Bush says the world cannot be naive about Iraq's intentions and he appealed for help in keeping Baghdad from developing weapons of mass destruction the warning about possible terrorist attacks against New York City landmarks apparently came from a very knowledgeable Source a law enforcement official says the information came from Al Qaeda leader Abu zubaydah who was being interrogated by us officials. So by De is believed to have played a key role in organizing the September 11th attacks, Washington DC police. Say Congressman, Gary Condit. Be questioned again in the death of Chandra Levy content has already been interviewed four times about his relationship with the former intern Levy's remains were discovered yesterday in a park not far from her apartment police want to talk to people who may have information about her her movements in the days before she disappeared the Minnesota partnership for action against tobacco has awarded nine hundred thousand dollars in Grants to support Community smoking bans. The grants are being issued despite heavy criticism and a court battle over the use of the group's money a camp fire ban goes into effect tomorrow for part of the Boundary Waters canoe area hit by a windstorm three years ago in areas affected by the band camp fires charcoal and wood burning camp stoves will only be allowed between 7 p.m. And midnight officials say the risk of fire in the blowdown area has reached its peak because of the volume of dry dead wood former University of Minnesota sports star and athletic director. Paul Gill has died Gil was coming home from the Minnesota Twins game at the Metrodome yesterday when he collapsed in his car. He was 69 the cause of death has not been determined partly to mostly cloudy, especially in the north today chance of some showers there windy and cooler Statewide temperatures ranging to near 50 in the Northwest to around 75 in the Southeast light rain and 39 in International Falls at 62 in Duluth. 64 in Red Wing in the Twin Cities, Gary sunny and 60°. All right. Thank you Stephen. It's about 26 minutes now before 12. This is midday and Minnesota Public Radio reminder over the noon hour. We're going to hear from a syndicated columnist Ellen Goodman also hear from new state senator Mee moua, and we're also going to be broadcasting that Garrison Keillor commencement address that he delivered at Macalester over the weekend this past weekend. You probably read about it in the paper pretty interesting comments. And so we'll have that as well kind of a triple header over the noon hour this hour we're talking with retiring state senator, Doug Johnson. And again, if you have a question for the senator as we look back on his Of career, give us a call six five one two two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Joe. Go ahead, please (00:29:43) thank you very much given that you're retiring. Hopefully this won't have any there's no link influence to the answer to this question. You had stated Senator that the animosity between the house and the Senate prohibited everybody from getting things done in a timely fashion, which would have allowed you to override The veto isn't that an incredibly strong argument for unicameral government? You know most minnesotans. I don't believe would support A one-house legislature every year. We don't have the kinds of problems that we had this year. I think that with redistricting the elections coming up both state constitutional officers and a new legislature that that fed a lot into that problem at the end of this year. So I think that the Czech checks and balances of a two-house legislature are very important and I can say that as I'm leaving the legislature would I think it'd be a disaster? They have a one-house legislature. (00:30:49) What about term limits enter? (00:30:51) I don't support that either the voters decide how long a person stays in the legislature as you said earlier in the show at 20% of the legislators retiring this year and term limits in my mind are silly and You know, you do need some experience in the legislature. And if the voters decide that there are fed up with you every two or four years. They've got the opportunity to fire you at the election (00:31:20) Tim here next. Go ahead, please (00:31:22) thank you very much. Congratulations Senator. I have no I have a question. If you indulge me I'd like to make a comment about the late Governor perpich. Okay, my question for you is and I and first of all I agree with you wholeheartedly on your last comment the unicameral legislature would have been a disaster with this current Administration as a lifelong Minnesota resident and independent I voted for purpose and Arne Carlson and I like them both. My question for you is if the political climate wasn't so contentious right now in so bad. Do you think that you would be retiring at this time? I made a decision to retire totally independent of the contentiousness of the Local situation in the state totally independent of redistricting because I would have had a very good District. I was I think 23 years old when I first got elected as mayor of my little Hometown city of cork and was mayor for five years and 32 years in the legislature. I just felt that for my wife and I we made a joint decision it was time to do something else, you know, chairing the tax committee and the finance committee for all those years. There's a lot of stress involved. It's huge and I always tried to fight for regular minnesotans and I just got to the point where you know, it'll be nice when we're watching our favorite TV show and the phone doesn't ring or in the middle of supper. The phone doesn't ring just to get a little bit more privacy in our lives do a little more fishing and hunting and we're going to do a little traveling in the South and and but I will Involved still doing some work and some line not in the public sector, but it was just time to go and for no particular reason other than 37 years in public in public life. I was just a almost just out of college. It was time. It was time to go (00:33:31) are good people still being a drawn to Public Service senator. In other words the best and the brightest are they still interested in in putting 20 30 years into a legislative career. (00:33:43) There are a lot of good people being being elected and you know, I often hear about people will say, oh those Crooks in the legislature whatever and and I often say well, you know that that just is not true, you know, you have the exceptions now and then you have the exact exceptions in the business Community now and then but overall Our legislature in Minnesota is made up of a wonderful bunch of individuals that are committed to not only their areas but the state as well and and I'm speaking of both Democrats and Republicans some of my best friends in the state senate where Republicans and and they're just good people and when I see the governor slamming them, it's just not fair. It's not right. And again, they're good people (00:34:35) you have the at the legislature still that same camaraderie that used to characterize legislative relations or is that diminished a little bit (00:34:44) over that that has really diminished and almost ended. In fact when the when the new ethics laws were passed and and many organizations from our districts used to come down and you know, they'd have a little some snacks or whatever and and once that ended it actually was a relief for us from a from a Standpoint because at times you'd have four or five events to go in one evening because they were constituents from your districts there. But it also had the had the effect of legislators not getting together as much as they used to so that did have an effect (00:35:27) retiring state senator Doug Johnson. As our guest this our he's joined us to reflect on his legislative career. If you'd like to join in give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand 6512276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight state representative. Tony sir, touch from Chism is on the line. Go ahead representative Senator (00:35:52) are you doing today? Good good. I just wanted to call in and publicly thank you for your many years of service fighting for fairness in the text structure of Minnesota. Not just for us people in northeastern, Minnesota, but for Statewide and really I wanted to ask you I've learned a lot from you as Staff member and I was a legislator and I was hoping you could discuss and I know you touched on it briefly how the text structure changed in this last session and how that's going to affect Minnesotan Statewide. Well, the effect is going to be a dramatic. I believe shift of taxes off of business on to homeowners and there were about 25 percent of the homeowners in Minnesota who got a tax increase even this year after being promised there would be like a 20 percent reduction from that bill last year and but it's designed to shift taxes and I believe in a major way on to homeowners in our state and for decades Minnesota always prided itself on making sure that the homeownership was affordable and that property taxes were held down on homes. And and that was really I believe really hurt in the tax bill last year and I was very disappointed about about its effects and I think there's going to be repercussions and I think there's going to be a lot of pressure from homeowners the next several years to make that system fairer again (00:37:18) Center. We've heard about people's Tax is actually going up was that the result of the of the state tax bill or was that the result of local taxing districts local governments increasing their property taxes? (00:37:32) Well, it was a combination of both but certainly the state tax law changes did a lot of that there were there were cuts and we'll come and AIDS that went to townships and cities and that affected many home owners in the state. There were changes in the classification rates where we're taxes were shifted off of businesses and apartments and the homeowners are going to pick up that that change. Yes, some local spending decisions did contribute to part of that some School District levees that past but you know, I believe the major reason was that state tax bill of last year that was All reform but really wasn't fair and and trust me when the homeowner start getting their bills in the next few years. There's going to be there's going to be a Revolt because of that huge shift of taxes on to homeowners in this state (00:38:36) senator besides serving 32 years in the legislature. You also used to be a school counselor. And so I can't help but ask you about the the what seems to be endless argument between especially the governor's overtime and Educators in Minnesota about how much money should be spent on education. Why do you suppose that year after year after year almost despite no matter who's the governor there that there's that (00:39:08) conflict. Well, you know there was that conflict way back in 1971 when my first year in the legislature and that was the year of the Minnesota miracle and we didn't get our work done until October and there was a major reform of of lowering property taxes and putting more money into education and I don't think the issue will go away. I think future Governors and future legislatures will be still faced with that that event that's been going on (00:39:40) no easy way to solve that (00:39:42) problem. Well, we have been shortchanging. I believe K through 12 education with the past couple years and the new financing system where the state is assuming 100% of the General Ed Levi, I think as will be a contributing to that problem. So it's going to be a major issue in 2003 because Minnesota's broke and there's no money built in for an inflationary increase for K through 12 education and all I can say is I'm glad that I personally don't have to deal with it. You know, Gary my first major bill in the legislature was in 1971. I was a I was a teacher and and one of my concerns was that too many school districts in Minnesota did not have kindergarten and so that first really the first bill I passed was a bill requiring School District to provide kindergarten for for kids and now there's been a huge emphasis on Early childhood education and I'm pretty proud of that first bill that has passed through the legislature and and we just have to make sure that Minnesota does not come up become a second-rate state as far as (00:40:59) education Kevin your question, please (00:41:02) I think you're taking my call Senator Johnson. We have a limited supply of Natural Resources. Even on the Iron Range and like to reflect a little bit on your an earlier statement you made about needing to use those resources is anyone on the Iron Range or you or other leaders or their developers working to find ways to build good career oriented jobs that don't involve digging something up or cutting something down up there. Yes, we are and that's that's an excellent question is we look at Economic Development. We always talk about Timber taconite tourism and technology and so far the the efforts have not been real successful, but I'm a huge proponent and and working with a number of Minnesota corporations to try to get them to look at Northern Minnesota as a great place for information technology kinds of jobs that you know, as you know, they pay probably more than attack night minor works. We are adding more of the curriculum in our community colleges now to provide that throughout the region and it is a major Focus, but with very limited results so far (00:42:15) have to ask you Senator the questions about Mining and logging in the rest bring to mind. What for a while there seemed to be a Great Divide among your dfl party members kind of City versus Northeastern Minnesota Beast over the BWC a abortion rights gun rights and the rest has that simmer down or is that still there? Is there a is Our kind of fundamental divide among DF Ellers in the state. (00:42:47) Well, it's still alive simmering issue particularly as it relates to the natural resource issues. And and I really believe it has hurt the dfl party Northeastern Minnesota used to be Rock Solid Democratic and it still is democratic but not as rock solid as it used to be and yes it is it is I term them the extremists that look at Northeastern Minnesota as a place to preserve for them to come up once a year and paddle around in their canoe. And so those issues have not gone away and that they have been a problem for the Democratic party no doubt about it. And the Republicans have made inroads over it. I've tried my best to minimize that but but you know when people are hungry and they don't have a job and they can't take their kids fishing. They rise up and that there's a certain level that anger (00:43:48) still long-term. Do you see Northern Minnesota becoming a republican (00:43:53) Bastion? No, I don't see it becoming a republican Bastion because you know as we look at the Republican agenda, it's our people care about good affordable healthcare and you know having good labor laws in place and economic opportunities really don't see the Republicans offering much as far as real economic opportunities in our region, so I don't see a it becoming a republican Bastion, although you know, a lot of the older folks who remember the depression and pass it on to the next Generation. We still we still hear about the Hoover days and of course as you go from generation to generation that kind of becomes a part of history that the kids don't hear about but It's still a democratic area, but it has been hurt by some extremist positions. I think the extremist position of not allowing those two portage's into the Boundary Waters canoe area. I really did hurt in many ways. But now that's settled and we're moving (00:44:58) on Jean your comment, please. (00:45:01) Well, I had a question and a comment Doug I think you and I went to Virginia Junior College together. I only rediscovered that recently when I was looking at you in the yearbook looking at balance Kerr and I thought oh, there's Doug Johnson. My maiden name was Ola and oh la la. Yeah and my I was born in the cook hospital and my mother's maiden name was stepping in and got a lot of roots back in the cook and or locality and we still have a cabin up on the Iron Range, but all that aside. I was interested in asking someone whether or not once the economic downturn started to become a parent whether we couldn't have put the brakes on the ways in which we were giving money back particularly since the polls at that time indicated that the general population didn't really feel as though it was that urgent to get a rebate. I mean nice if you can afford it or tax cut what's would it have been possible to have put the brakes on that and saved ourselves some of this trouble. Well, absolutely and that was Senator Roger most position in the 2001 session to keep some more money in reserve, you know, the the economy in Minnesota didn't just start collapsing in September of last year September 11th there. Signs already in March when the legislature was still in session that that a downturn was occurring so but there was this rush to either spend it all or cut taxes with it and we saw a now what what happened and when homeowners start seeing their taxes go up when there's not going to be sufficient money to fund the school's they're going to see that there should have been more restraint in the 2001 legislative session Center. We don't have a lot of (00:47:16) time left, but I didn't need to ask you, of course you ran for governor in 1998 sought the dfl party nomination came up short and he regrets about not having had an opportunity to serve as governor. (00:47:28) Well, you know, I would have loved that job and I would have actually lived in that mansion and I did a lot of people over we'd had a lot of fun. I'm glad I ran it was a great experience. It was hard work and and And I told my friend Roger Mo that you've got to try it once and so I have no regrets at all. You know, the other other issue. I like to just touch on briefly is really the bill that let me move forward in the legislature. It's a lot of your listeners are probably too young to remember when when when there was a tax and oleomargarine now, huh in the 1974 session. I authored the bill in the house that that eliminated that tax. Remember those we used to have those plastic bags with the margin at that little red button. You had a reason the kids used to fight over who would get to do it. Well, I sent that bill over the house. It passed the house. It went to the Senate and Nick Coleman put an amendment on that added about 300 pages of other tax provisions and that was my first conference committee on taxes way back in 1974. I build up a relationship. Nation ship with the late Nick Coleman we became great friends and he was very instrumental in and me becoming Senate texture and my third year in the Senate and so it's some of those bills you kind of remember as part of part of the kinds of things you worked on in the legislature. So I don't think I want that on my Tombstone that illuminated but tax on oleomargarine, but it certainly was a lot of fun and it helped me great a great deal in my career in the (00:49:15) Senate the man who freed (00:49:16) margarine the man who freed margin Gary, do you remember when you had to squeeze the margarine? Oh, yes (00:49:22) Senator. Thanks so much for joining us and thank you so much for all your years of public service (00:49:27) and we thank you very much. Good luck to you by (00:49:30) retiring state. Senator, Doug Johnson joining us for this first hour of our midday program to reflect on his 32 years in the Minnesota Legislature. Clearly one of the most influential legislators these Thirty years 21 years of Senate tax committee chair the last couple of years Senate finance committee chair major imprint on state policy these last 20 to 30 years Senator Doug Johnson, by the way, a reminder over the noon hour Ellen Goodman Mee moua and Garrison Keillor speaking of mr. Keeler and here is the writers. Almanach for Thursday. It's the 23rd of May 2002. It's the rest of the poet Jane Kenyan born in Ann Arbor in 1947 lived for many years in New Hampshire with her husband poet Donald Hall died of leukemia in 1995. It's the birthday of the clarinetist and bandleader Artie. Job or Norther Jacob our show off ski in New York City in 1910. He made a plan when he was a young man that he would be a musician just long enough to make some money and then he would retire to write books. He formed a band very popular in the 1930s had a hit record of Cole Porter's begin the beguine and about the same time became the first White Band Leader to hire a black singer Billie Holiday was a permanent member of his band wrote an autobiographical novel The Trouble with Cinderella in 1951. And another book in 1965. I love you. I hate you drop dead. It's the birthday of the writer and journalist Margaret Fuller born in Cambridge, Port Massachusetts 1810. She was a teacher she was a translator. She lived in Boston for a time where she met Ralph Waldo Emerson and became part of the transcendentalist movement. And which believe that God can be seen in man and in nature and that intuition is the highest source of knowledge and about that time in 1845. She wrote a book called women in the 19th century the first known feminist writing by an American woman and it's the first day of the poet and humorist Thomas Hood born in London in 1799. He aspired to be a great poet but he was better known for his humorous verse though. His most famous poem is an Ode to the underprivileged and two workers called the song of the shirt in 1843 Thomas Hood who said There are three things the public will always clamor for sooner or later novelty novelty novelty. Here's a poem for today by Jennifer of Michael hacked entitled naked. The reason you so often in literature have a naked woman walk out of her house that way usually older in her front garden or on the sidewalk oblivious is because of exactly how I feel right now. You tend to hear about how it felt to come upon such a mythical Beast the naked woman on the street the naked man in a tree and that makes sense because it is wonderful to take the naked woman by the hand and know that you will remember that moment for the rest of your life because of what it means the desperation the cataclysm of what it takes to leave your house naked or to take off your clothes in the tray. It feels good to get the naked man to come down from there by a series of gentle commands and take him by the elbow or her by the hand and lead him to his home like you would care for a bird or a human heart still if you want instead for once to hear about how the person came to be standing there naked. Outside you should talk to me right now quickly before I forget the details of this way that I feel I feel like walking out a poem by Jennifer Michael hacked naked from her collection the next Ancient World published by Tupelo, press and used by permission here in the writers almanach produced by Minnesota Public Radio and brought to you by the people of a be ebooks were over 30 million rare used and out-of-print books are just a click away online at a be ebooks.com production assistance from Kathy roach be well. Do good work and keep in touch 12 noon. This is midday and Minnesota Public Radio Garrison Keillor delivered a pretty interesting. In commencement address at Macalester College this past Sunday and that's going to be part of our new now our feature today. We hope you'll be able to stay tuned kicking off our noon hour syndicated columnist Ellen Goodman. So hope you can stay tuned. If you've never clicked to the word of mouth webpage at Minnesota Public Radio dot or guy Chris Roberts urge you to do so at your earliest convenience because there you will find incredibly useful information about Minnesota arts and dazzling images. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio partly cloudy Sky 60 degrees at Kinder wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul cloudy to partly cloudy this afternoon. Pretty Breezy with a high near 65 tonight partly cloudy overnight low near 40 degrees and then tomorrow basically the same kind of weather partly cloudy with a high near 60.