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CHRIS ROBERTS: Thanks for tuning in Word of Mouth, a radio guide to the arts. I'm Chris Roberts. One of the things we've tried to do on Word of Mouth is present an ongoing dialogue on theater criticism between the two parties who rarely talk to each other about the subject, theater critics and theater practitioners. We've tried to create a safe, friendly place where views can be exchanged without hurt feelings or, God forbid, fisticuffs.

Tonight, that conversation continues as we focus on the play, The Darker Face of the Earth, a sprawling epic drama co-produced by Penumbra Theater in Saint Paul and the Guthrie Theater in Minneapolis. Our participants are Penumbra artistic director, Lou Bellamy, who directs the production, and Saint Paul Pioneer Press theater critic, Dominic Papatola. The Darker Face of the Earth, says Bellamy, takes the tragic Greek yarn, Oedipus Rex, and inserts it into the antebellum South during the days of slavery.

LOU BELLAMY: Inherent in that yarn is the idea of curse, that slavery somehow tainted, made ugly, made horrible, everything, and everyone with which it came into contact. And so there was a singular appropriateness of the idea of curse that, I think, intrigued the playwright and frankly, myself.

CHRIS ROBERTS: The playwright Bellamy speaks of is poet, Rita Dove. Dove says she created the two main characters, the itinerant slave, Augustus Newcastle, and his domineering master, Amalia, as enemies who become lovers, before they discover they are mother and son. Dove says she can easily envision such a catastrophe playing out during slavery.

RITA DOVE: I realized that in slavery, you could have very easily a situation where a child would not know its parents, and, in fact, could become face to face with them and not know that, and that this open secret could doom them beyond any hope of salvation.

CHRIS ROBERTS: In his Pioneer Press review, Dominic Papatola emphasized the enormity of the production, not only in size, but ambition as it weaves music, movement, and an array of ideas into one historical tapestry. The words, according to Papatola, and Bellamy's staging, are beautifully rendered. But he says Dove's script, perhaps because of her inexperience as a playwright, is too dense, her plotting awkward at times, and the acting, somewhat archetypal and distant.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: Where I found fault, if you want to call it fault, was, I think, partially in the words, but partially in the way those words were carried out by the actors. And this was something that I wanted to talk about. Because reading my review, and reading Rohan's review in the Star Tribune, I was very struck by the things that he perceived to be strengths, I perceived to be weaknesses, and the things that I perceived to be weaknesses, he perceived to be strengths.

He really found a lot to admire in the acting of the two lead characters. And I found it more deficient. And the question is does the truth lie somewhere in between our two opinions? Does it lie someplace else? And how much of that has to do with working in this huge space? When I see you do a show on Penumbra, you're clearly very comfortable in that space. It's just everything feels like it's organic. It doesn't feel-- I don't see the staging. I don't see the artifice. And in a big, huge space, like the Guthrie, even with a show that needs that scale, as this one clearly does, I just-- I see more of the-- I see the apparatus working.

LOU BELLAMY: Mm-hmm. When I watched, for instance, the last scene of that play, they brought me to tears. I literally couldn't criticize it. I just said, that's it. Now just hope you can hit that every night, because I can't watch this anymore. No, there is something about distance. I was right next to them, when they did that. There's something about the distance, and the size of that particular house, that makes it difficult for you to feel that sort of angst and the real connection between those two characters.

CHRIS ROBERTS: When I read the review, I was struck by Dominic's assertion that basically, it contains beautiful language. But it's Lou Bellamy coming to the rescue of an inexperienced playwright. Did you feel saddled by Rita Dove's inexperience as a playwright?

LOU BELLAMY: No, no. I think that poets tend to say things with a lot of words, and they're flowery. And that's a challenge to keep a dramatic line moving through that. Shakespeare bores hell out of me for that same reason. I say, come on, get it over with, all right? Will you get there? And I have the same sort of feeling in this script quite often, you know. But this is what you're given. And that is the challenge.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: I'm curious, because you've obviously been incubating this play in your head for a long time. When I read the play before seeing it, my initial reaction was, wow, this is really beautiful language. I don't see immediately what a director would see in it that would really make him want to do the show, because it's lovely. But it does just, sort of, sit there on the page.

LOU BELLAMY: You know, Dominic, I don't do theater or any kind of art just for the sake of art. And if it were just beautiful words, and if it didn't have something to do with the discourse that I think this nation should be interested in, in engaging, I wouldn't do it. And perhaps couched in that language, and with that oedipal yarn, is the only way that this community would address that issue on that larger scale. Maybe that's the only way they're ready to talk about it. You see, this is within the canon of European literature. And therefore, it gives it a hook.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: Mm-hmm. Because of the overlay of taboo--

LOU BELLAMY: Of course. Of course. And therefore, it is perhaps worthy of consideration in a way that it wouldn't be if she'd written a slavery play.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: It seems like slavery is already so big, so tragic, so full of pain in terms of being ingrained in who we are--

LOU BELLAMY: --untalked about in America.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: But does it need the Oedipus skeleton to hang it on?

LOU BELLAMY: Well, I don't know what people need to talk about it. Black folks seem to want to talk about it a lot. And they seem to be the only ones. [LAUGHS] And perhaps, it's under this rubric, it might make it easier.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: As to whether or not this will foster a discussion, you know, I don't know. I think there is, sort of, a-- especially in the North, and Lester and I talked about this, because he's from the South and I lived in the South for a while. There's sort--

LOU BELLAMY: Who's Lester?

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: Lester Purry is the guy who plays Augustus.

LOU BELLAMY: OK.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: We had talked about in the North that there isn't really any sense of culpability for slavery, because we can point at it and say, that's something that happened over there. Those people did it. You know it's not something that really affects us. And so I think to make that argument here in Minnesota, it's very difficult, I think, to expect people to think, OK, well, we've got this in front of us now. Now we all have to examine ourselves. And now, you know, we can have a conversation about it.

LOU BELLAMY: I think we should. And I think privilege-- I think privilege is the issue here. And privilege, by virtue of race, is the issue. And I think that no one should feel above it all. And that's precisely the conversation that needs to happen. And we're having it. Isn't that wonderful? You see? That darn play is bringing us to this conversation. It's going to bring these listeners to this conversation, I think, in the same sort of way.

CHRIS ROBERTS: But only because you're here. If Dominic and I were talking about--

LOU BELLAMY: I don't know. I bet you would. I hope you would.

DOMINIC PAPATOLA: I mean, I believe that should happen under any circumstances. I believe any piece of theater that speaks to any part of the human condition, which all theater does, should facilitate some kind of conversation. And so--

CHRIS ROBERTS: For that facilitation to occur, though, people have to see the play. And my question for you is, after reading Dominic's review, are people inspired to go see the play?

LOU BELLAMY: Well, I would-- there's the rub. I think that this is of enough consequence in this country that I would like to see a reviewer say, look, this stuff matters. These are issues that we've been sticking our head in the sand on. And you need to get over there. And you need to see this piece so that we can talk about it. Because I believe, and that's taking criticism to the next level, I believe this is something that we have a stake in as Americans. And as long as we keep dragging this stinky albatross around on our necks, we will never be what we can become. And then you see, then you're taking the criticism to a level that I would like to take it to.

That next step will only happen if you take it. Dominic, you have the responsibility and the role. That's why you got this job, because you have to heighten that criticism. You not only have to talk about a good night's this or that, but you have to place that criticism in the whole story of human interaction. And that's what's going to make you a great critic or an OK critic.

I'm secure in the art that I created here. I didn't come in here to defend that. I know what I meant to do. You can like it. You can not. I like it. You don't. What matters is that we're using this art to make ourselves better as human beings. That's why I do it. And that's what I wish would have been more a part of both those reviews, frankly.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Penumbra Theater artistic director, Lou Bellamy, who also directs the Penumbra Guthrie production of The Darker Face of the Earth speaking with Saint Paul Pioneer Press theater critic, Dominic Papatola. The Darker Face of the Earth is on stage at the Guthrie through April 1.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER 1: Hey, can you tell me what the term word of mouth means to you?

SPEAKER 2: I can't tell you just now.

SPEAKER 3: One person to another.

SPEAKER 4: It means if somebody asks something, you can tell them instead of pointing. And it comes out better if you say stuff than it does if you say, well, I don't know.

CHRIS ROBERTS: OK. Well, time for the Word of Mouth arts roundup.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Today's the day the Irish community celebrates. And as ever, there are plenty of opportunities. Some of the best of Minnesota's Irish music has been collected in the Last Bar CD released today. One of the musicians it features, Katie McMahon, is also performing tonight at the College of Saint Catherine, as the Women of Substance Spring Series presents Gail Fest.

McMahon, the original voice of Riverdance, joins Laura McKenzie on bagpipes, harpist Sunita Staneslaw, and guitarist Karen Mueller, while the step dancers from [INAUDIBLE] Irish dance company, cover the stage with jigs, reels, and airs. Gail Fest, tonight at 8:00 PM at the O'Shaughnessy Auditorium. Isn't that appropriate? In Saint Paul.

[APPLAUSE]

ALEX COLE: My name is Alex Cole. And welcome to the Mudslingers Ball. This is a celebration--

CHRIS ROBERTS: Take one part hot-button issue politics, two parts irreverent comedy, encourage audience heckling, and add the grinning glare of television cameras. And what do you have? The Mudslingers Ball at the Acme Comedy Club in Minneapolis. Local comics, including Lewis Black, will debate everything from economics to gun control, same-sex marriages, to the environment.

SPEAKER 5: The reason the weather is nuts in this country, OK, is because we lost the ozone layer. There's no reason we should live without an ozone layer. We've got men, we've got rockets, we've got Saran wrap. Fix it.

[LAUGHTER]

CHRIS ROBERTS: Participants in the Mudslingers Ball, which is also being taped as a TV pilot, will be flinging the dirt through tomorrow night at the Acme Comedy Club in Minneapolis.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

PERFORMER: [NON-ENGLISH SINGING]

CHRIS ROBERTS: Shapiro and Smith's show, Shtick, A Life, explores one time period and two very different worlds. Using skewed comedy sketches, raucous slapstick, and song and dance routines, Shtick pairs an examination of the Holocaust with the success of Jewish performers such as Steve and Eddie, Perez Prado, Sid Caesar, and Henny Youngman. Daniel Shapiro says he combined his own memories of the Holocaust, his mother being a survivor, with what he calls the gentle stink of bad performance.

DANIEL SHAPIRO: So the piece looks at humor. It looks at performance. It looks at the catskills. It looks at mambos and chachas. It looks at falling down and trying to get back up. It looks at years on the stage. It looks at years off the stage. It looks at leaving the stage. It looks at when is it time to leave? Can you get off?

CHRIS ROBERTS: Shtick? A Life takes the stage at the Southern Theater in Minneapolis through this weekend.

SPEAKER 6: (HIGH-PITCHED VOICE) Potato chip. Potato chip [INAUDIBLE]. Potato [INAUDIBLE].

CHRIS ROBERTS: Michael [? Krissen ?] plays the part of Granny in Mixed Blood Theater's production of La Nonna. It's the story of a tiny lady with a huge appetite. Set in Argentina, Granny eats her family out of house and home, while they struggle to make ends meet. Artistic director, Rose Portillo, says the story draws parallels between our parents and our government.

ROSE PORTILLO: We live with beasts in our own home. And it's mirrored in a more political structure as well. There are the beasts that really don't care about our well-being, and care about their own hunger, and create their own hunger.

CHRIS ROBERTS: La Nonna, which is presented in English and Spanish on alternating nights, runs at the Mixed Blood theater in Minneapolis through the beginning of April.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

Chicago-based Indie chamber ensemble, The Rachel's will perform a collection of work called Music for Egon Sheile. The instrumentals, written by pianist Rachel Grimes, reflect the rich and varied life of the famous Viennese artist who died Halloween night, 1918 at the age of 28 from the Spanish flu. Grimes says she discovered Sheila in college during a 20th century art class. She says she hopes her music reaches the same truth attained by Sheila.

RACHEL GRIMES: His artwork is fairly stripped of any contrived posing. It's very natural, and sometimes very harsh and confrontational in a way. And his landscapes are extraordinarily delicate and beautiful, even when they are tinged with melancholy or even death sometimes.

CHRIS ROBERTS: The Rachel's play music for Egon Sheile at the Women's Club of Minneapolis this Monday at 8:00 PM. And it's Word of Mouth on Minnesota Public Radio.

[JAZZ MUSIC]

Jazz bassist, Anthony Cox, is probably the most brilliant musician claimed by the Twin Cities suburb of Coon Rapids. Cox grew up in Coon Rapids. And after living in New York for a while, it's where he calls home. It fits that Cox hails from Coon Rapids, surprising as that may sound to those who only know his music, because throughout his career, he has fiercely resisted categorization. He's performed with some of the greatest jazz artists in the world, playing their compositions and his, and experimented with every form of music, from straight ahead to avant Garde jazz, rock to world music. Now, in his mid-forties, the experimentation continues. But Cox's musical journey has given him a stronger sense than ever before, what his voice is.

ANTHONY COX: I have a whole different perception of myself as a musician. Music is more of a very, very personal, artistic statement, and not so much a commercial endeavor. Don't get me wrong. I mean, I make my living through music, either by teaching or by touring, and playing, and recording. But there's some kind of like, wait, that was-- I took off on myself that was lifted. I got to a point where I want to be as honest as I can about what I want to do. Because I think in the past two or three years, I've spent a lot of time trying out different things. And I've finally come back to what I am-- you know, I like jazz.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

CHRIS ROBERTS: I know you're asked this all the time. But is it hard for an internationally famous jazz musician to conduct his career from Coon Rapids, Minnesota?

ANTHONY COX: [LAUGHS] Yeah. Coon Rapids. Well, you know, yeah. A lot of times, I just say, I'm from Minneapolis, because, first of all, I tell people that, you know, like even my old friends in New York, they go, what? Where do you live? You know, I'm not really a-- well, I mean, I love cities. Don't get me wrong. But I like-- I think growing up the way I did, I just appreciate having a house and, living that kind of more quiet lifestyle. I mean, I've been to Beijing, Berlin, Paris, you know, it doesn't-- I don't look at things that way. I really--

CHRIS ROBERTS: The world is small to you.

ANTHONY COX: Yeah, it is.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

CHRIS ROBERTS: Speaking of Coon Rapids, you spent many of your formative years there. You grew up there. I'm wondering how growing up in an almost exclusively white suburb affected you as, I guess, a musician, as a person.

ANTHONY COX: It affected me, I guess, in many ways. One, when we moved here, it was 1960. My father couldn't even purchase the land. He had to go around all these channels in order to get the home that we had. There were death threats on the phone. And our phone was tapped. I've told this two billion times. But it was true high.

CHRIS ROBERTS: I've never heard it.

ANTHONY COX: Yeah. But the attorney general ordered a wiretap on our phone. My parents worked and had to endure a lot of racism as I did, too. And from that, what it did was actually, honestly kind of instilled this kind of outsider mentality. I guess what it did was shape my character. I mean, because when I moved to New York city, I had a sense of, a real strong sense, of who I was, and what I was. And so I couldn't be forced into any kind of camp.

CHRIS ROBERTS: If there's one quality that may never change about Cox, it's his artistic need to collaborate with other musicians and combine notes and rhythms. He'll be debuting a new quartet this Wednesday night in a performance at the Walker Art Center. In the same concert, he also plans to reunite with fellow well-known bassist Glenn Moore in a duo that floored a Cedar Cultural Center audience when they played last year.

ANTHONY COX: Glenn tunes his bass differently. I think it's like D tuning or something, open D. So what happens is it has a real bright sound, almost sounds Baroque, or you know what I mean? And I have the standard tuning. So when the two of them are together, it sounds really full. It sounds like an orchestra.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you ever worry about reaching some kind of stage where ideas are not flowing as easily as they did in the past?

ANTHONY COX: No, that happened to me already. And what happened was I lightened up on myself. And I said, you don't have to write some opus. Just write. And what happens is then the real-- when you're honest with yourself, it comes out. Being able to look at your instrument as just an extension of yourself, and just it's natural as breathing. And if you can do that, you're never going to get stale or have composer's block or player's block, because you're not putting these external pressures of what people think you should be, or what-- you know. And so the brilliance comes out, because it is.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Cox believes musicians never master the music. The music masters them. He'll be taking the stage at the Walker Auditorium in Minneapolis this Wednesday night at 8:00.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

That concludes Word of Mouth. Our assistant producer, who perennially wins the most Celtic name in the Twin Cities award is Heather Mcelhatton. Our editor, who tends to wear plaid instead of green on St Patrick's Day is Euan Kerr. The web version of Word of Mouth at npr.org was whipped into shape by Mike Wells. I'm Chris Roberts. Until next Friday evening at 6:00, fare thee well.

[MUSIC PLAYING]