(00:00:00) Thank you Greta six minutes now past 11 (00:00:02) o'clock. (00:00:13) Good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us funeral services are being held this afternoon for a true Minnesota original Kurt Carlson widely believed to be Minnesota's richest man and the founder of Minnetonka based Carlson companies died. Last Friday was 84 years old services are being held at three o'clock this afternoon at Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church in Minneapolis. The funeral is open to the public this our midday were going to take a look back at Kirk Carlson's life. We're also going to talk about entrepreneurs like mr. Carlson. What makes them tick. Is it possible for a young person starting out today to replicate Kirk Carlson success will get to that discussion in just a few minutes. But first of all, here's Minnesota public radio's marks a deck like with a report on The Late Kurt (00:01:02) Carlson Kurt Carlson story is a classic (00:01:05) tale and immigrants unceasing Newfound American Opportunity. (00:01:10) Profits are important because they they are the scorekeeper Carlson's I for-profits showed itself early. He was a nine-year-old country (00:01:22) club caddy who by (00:01:23) eleven was putting together a network of newspaper delivery (00:01:26) boys Carlson spoke at length about his life with Minnesota Public Radio 2 and a half years before his death one time the Minneapolis Journal had a contest on for us to go out and get new customers (00:01:42) and I attended the meet Saturday meetings that they that we'd have (00:01:46) once a month with our supervisor from the paper. And I asked him if I got him for customers that I have the route and (00:01:56) he said you give me for person for customers and you got it have (00:02:00) wouldn't get a couple of relatives and and I got (00:02:04) the root (00:02:05) when the second one opened. He gave me the second route and I got a third root and I've had my Two Brothers carry those and I paid him for it and I got a little over right to Carlson business was in his jeans at (00:02:20) home. There was no such thing as an allowance (00:02:23) instead of get out and (00:02:24) work for what you want philosophy prevailed (00:02:27) if that sounds harsh to Carlson. It was appropriate. I did fine that in the depths of the depression. I'm talking about the early thirties and there was 25 percent unemployment in this country. Then that there was all kinds of work that people that I was pedaling the papers too. They all wanted their (00:02:47) Gardens. (00:02:50) It up. They all want to have somebody cut their lawns and so forth. You didn't get a lot of money for it, but labor at that time me 25 cents an hour. So you see it wasn't a lot of money, but your money went a long ways Carlson graduated from the (00:03:05) University of Minnesota in 1937 and began selling soap and cooking oil for Procter & (00:03:11) Gamble with America still (00:03:13) stinging from the depression. (00:03:15) His sales job was good by any measure, but he wanted his own (00:03:19) business in 1938 Carlson left Procter & Gamble (00:03:24) and formed the Gold Bond stamp company with a 55 dollar loan from his landlord (00:03:29) and a line of credit from a local printer (00:03:32) Carlson's idea was that businesses could Foster customer loyalty by rewarding patrons with stamps? They in turn could collect and redeem for merchandise, even as fathers Banker turned (00:03:43) down his loan application (00:03:45) calling the stamp idea harebrained. I got turned down for a loan there, but I learned Thing don't that's the last people to go to is a bank. If you don't have any money, you got to have money to go to a bank and I went to the guy this is all printing. I went to a printer told him. I could be a good customer if he would do this. I'd have as (00:04:08) many tomb within 90 days or 120 days and I'd continue to do business with me. He did the whole thing for me and I was off and (00:04:16) running by the end of World War two millions of people were collecting Carlson stamps from thousands of businesses around the country their popularity peaked in the 1960s Carlson then directed his energy and growing Financial Resources toward the hospitality industry with the purchase (00:04:35) of the original Radisson Hotel in Downtown Minneapolis. (00:04:39) He began acquiring hundreds of restaurants and hotels and networks of (00:04:43) travel agencies his businesses grew phenomenally (00:04:48) in 1997. Nelson brands from Radisson hotels to TGI Fridays restaurants and Carlson wagonlit travel agencies raked in twenty billion dollars in sales Carlson Enterprises. Most of them franchises did business and more than 140 countries and employs nearly 150,000 people the best business advice I ever got was that that I picked (00:05:15) up immediately and that's when I (00:05:17) was a fairly Young fella and I one of my customers in the paper route made a statement to me. He (00:05:26) had a drug store (00:05:27) and he said to me, you know (00:05:29) Kurt, I work six (00:05:30) days and instead I feel that five days is when I stay even it's a six day when I (00:05:38) get ahead and I never (00:05:40) forgotten that and I'll pack the all my life. Saturday's was my duty to get (00:05:45) ahead Carlson became one of the wealthiest men in the country Forbes. (00:05:49) Asked estimated his net (00:05:51) worth at one point six billion dollars known for his success in business Carlson will also be remembered for his philanthropy over the past nearly five decades. He personally donated more than 36 million dollars to the University of Minnesota Carlson also believed corporations had a responsibility to the (00:06:11) communities in which they did business (00:06:14) in the mid-1970s Carlson companies (00:06:17) joined 21 other Minnesota businesses (00:06:19) in pledging to contribute 5% if pre-tax earnings to charity (00:06:24) Graco chairman David coach was president of the Minneapolis Chamber of Commerce at the time (00:06:30) coach was among a handful of Executives leading the push to recruit 5% donor companies. (00:06:36) We always are looking for leaders and four and four champions in a community and Kurt obviously starting very modestly with his business and growing it into the kind of international global. Company that exists today and and yet continuing to be interested active and involved in the community is a wonderful example for a lot of other entrepreneurs Kurt (00:07:00) Carlson remained at the helm of Carlson companies until the spring of 1998 when daughter Marilyn Carlson Nelson took over the transformation was timed to coincide with the company's 60th (00:07:12) anniversary. I've never seen a man who makes the demands of what he needs from his people but has such a marshmallow side to him when it comes to humanity (00:07:23) Minnesota financier, Irwin Jacobs says, he'll remember Kurt Carlson is a Visionary who successfully tapped the market of the masses through hard work and good ideas. Jacobs also says Carlson who's normally associated with amassing wealth (00:07:40) placed an enormous premium on his family. (00:07:43) I've seen him socially and I've seen him Community wise and business-wise and familywize and I see how important is family. To him and you know, they say the true Fortune of any man is the family that he's built around him. And I think that starting with the family of the Carlson family would Kurt's create around there's really his greatest Fortune. He is going to be greatly missed based on what he's done to leave his legacy here (00:08:07) when Kurt Carlson's father was dying he mused to his son. He could not give him the world but Kurt could instead have the United States as his sales territory in the final days of his life. Carlson could have told his daughter Marilyn Carlson Nelson now head of the global Hospitality superpower by her father's name. He leaves to her the world as her territory. This is Mark. Zdechlik, Minnesota Public Radio. (00:08:34) Once again funeral services for Kurt Carlson will be held at three o'clock this afternoon at Hennepin Avenue United Methodist Church in Minneapolis. We're going to spend the rest of this hour now talking about Kirk Carlton's Legacy and what it takes to be in. Entrepreneur like Kurt Carlson, whether it's even possible for somebody today to accomplish what? Mr. Carlson accomplished joining us here in the studio is Doug Johnson co-director of the center for entrepreneurial studies at the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota. Also with us is car leggy the director of the entrepreneurship program at Macalester College in st. Paul. And of course, we invite you to join our conversation as well. Give us a call. We're talking this our about entrepreneurs what makes them tick give us a call six five one two, two seven six thousand. That's our Twin City area number six five. One two, two seven six thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities 1-800 242 to 8286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight gentlemen. Thanks for coming in today. Appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you. What in the world is an entrepreneur as opposed to a person in business. Is there a difference? (00:09:51) My distinction probably go something like this. A business person says what resources do I have and what can I do with the resources and entrepreneur says what's the job that has to get done and I'll go find the resources to give an example. If you take over running a company or six workers and hundred thousand dollars in the cash register. That's what the businessman says. That's what I'm going to use. Those are my resources a Kurt Carlson an entrepreneur isn't as concerned about how many people he has or what the money as he's trying to figure out what tasks and the goal is trying to accomplish. So I'd say that not finger thinks Outside the Box in that sense Mmm (00:10:32) Yeah precisely. In fact to incur Carlson started the Gold Bond Trading Company in 1938 with $55 who would have ever thought that a person in that situation with such limited resources would in fact create a multi-billion dollar company 50 years later and an analyst at the time looking and talking with Kurt probably. Of counseled him not to do it since the odds are one in a million that that happens and what analysts don't have that entrepreneurs have is the conviction that in fact they are the one in a million person that can make this happen. I was going to say now because the banker was apparently told. Mr. Carlson. This is a harebrained scheme go back to work at Procter & Gamble and you got a good job. It's the depression after all and and be happy with what you have does an entrepreneur generally assume that well, I'm going to start with the Gold Bond stamps, but one day I'm going to have this Empire is that (00:11:33) typical No, but I I think instead would draw the analogy of walking down a hallway. Those of us who have never started a business can see a long hallway and we can see that there's some light at the end of the tunnel, but only people who start a business and are an entrepreneur get to walk down the hallway and peek in the side windows in the side doors. And those are the potential opportunities that you can get as you launch it. So here we see the story and Kurt Carlson of launching the Gold Bond company and the next thing you and I know is we have our kids in the swimming pool at a Radisson Hotel and there is quite a bit getting into the hospitality industry that's connected to the fact that he walked down the hall and was able to see what was taking place in some of the windows and doors outside of it. So I think to be an entrepreneur is to open up more opportunities more Things you could do with the company you have or directions. You can take Miss Johnson. Is there any any (00:12:38) similarity any Common Ground among entrepreneurs in terms of how they come up with their first big idea or is it how do they how do you decide for example, though that the real world really needs is a Gold Bond stamp. I don't think there's a simple answer to that entrepreneurs are not only Visionary but they're driven and they're very competitive to complete their Vision. They've got the vision to see what others don't see that makes it difficult to articulate to others the vision in Practical terms, and they also have the persistence to carry it through in today's world. I would say that The Visionaries that were seeing and Entrepreneurship are those Visionaries that are using the internet and electronic Commerce to turn markets over very rapidly. A and establish new methods of serving new markets that only they can see so it changes over time the characteristics of the entrepreneur that are common Through Time have to do with those traits that we've all admired As Americans for a long time the passion for accomplishment perseverance High self-esteem salesmanship Kurt Carlson was probably the best salesman in the world and salesmanship is necessary for entrepreneurship because you're constantly selling also you have to be very very a very Earnest person and work hard as one of my friends says if you're an entrepreneur you spend 90% of your time running your company and the other 90% of your time raising money. We're talking this hour with the Doug Johnson. He's with the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota car leggy is with us director of the entrepreneurship program at Macalester College in st. Paul. (00:14:27) We're talking about entrepreneurs like Kurt Carlson. (00:14:30) And if you'd like to join our conversation get a better sense of what makes these folks tick give us a call six five. One two, two seven six thousand. That's our Twin City area number six five. One two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll free at 1-888-438-6557 6,000 or 1-800 to for to to 828 the world of the entrepreneur is first hour of our midday program. Is it possible today for a young person? They pick up the newspaper turn on the radio turn on the TV. They hear this story about this fellow who started the Gold Bond stamp company and eventually ended up owning half the world. Is it possible for a young person today to imagine themselves doing the same thing or has the world changed so much that that's just not a realistic possibility anymore car leg. (00:15:28) My view is it's not Wise to carry that gigantic of a dream in your head. It's nice to have a smaller version of it. Let me give an example. I think important in the Curt Carlson story that we just heard and I'm sure Doug would agree with me that prior to launching your business or trying to go through with your vision. You really have to have a great idea and you have to have before that good training Kurt Carlson worked with Proctor & Gamble in the olden days Procter & Gamble was the Harvard of work environments. It was the place that you learned how to sell and I think those of us that brush our teeth with Crest toothpaste know that Procter & Gamble has a lot of Customer Loyalty. So I sense that Kurt Carlson 60 years ago got a horse called customer loyalty and he rode that thing to the point now that whether it's through Gold Bond stamps or frequent flyer miles. He realized that to get people to keep buying the same product you have to do that. So I think that's the important message to me. Get good training before you launch your vision. And then once you launch your vision, then you can write it pretty high Doug Johnson. (00:16:40) I agree with everything Carl said I would add a couple of things. First of all the world is going through a quite a change right now with the internet and electronic Commerce revolutionising markets right and left. It's similar to the change. We believe that the world went through when the Industrial Revolution started in the 18th century. And in fact, it's possible using these new technologies and new tools for a person to an entrepreneur to establish a very viable company very quickly. A lot of these new technologies have been used and of have resulted in companies such as amazon.com Hotmail. It's Etc Hotmail. For example used viral marketing, which is the commonly called Network enhanced Word of Mouth people on the internet. King to one another to generate 10 million subscribers to their email system in two years and they sold themselves to Microsoft for 400 million dollars a year and a half ago. That's an example of using the new technologies in an intelligent fashion and to create a new market of enormous value. And so I would say that entrepreneurs today not only need the training that Carl talked about earlier, but they need the courage to attempt to do what other people don't do Kurt Carlson had that in Spades and it kept him going throughout his very successful career and we can see it in examples throughout industry today right and left. The largest internet supplier in Holland is not the Dutch Telephone Company. It's a group of hackers called excess for all who challenged all the conventional rules of the Dutch telephone company and created a new Good and succeeded in creating a new market in spite of the enormous presence of the Dutch telephone company. So it's not only a question of education but it's question of actually getting out there and doing it. Hmm. Let's get some callers involved here Kim's on the line for (00:18:47) Minnetonka. Go ahead. Yes. Good morning. I'm really enjoying this topic wanted to share a quick observation and then have a question for you. Sure do a lot of work with schools and also employers on this whole school to work initiative and making sure that students have the kinds of skills that it's going to take to work in today's world and you're right. We're going through real radical changes. And in fact kids today are going to go into jobs five years from now that we don't even know about yet. And so the one of the big dilemmas is how do you prepare students for jobs that don't exist yet? And I really think the answer is it's a certain type of student and Getting the opportunity to develop those entrepreneurial skills given the trends of the number of people that are going into self employment starting their own businesses. These are definitely I think basic skills that are within that definition of basic skills for students. But here's my question for you. I share the comment that in 1921 Congress recommended that we close the patent office because everything that could be invented had been invented and I find that amusing do you have any sense for what the number of applications for patents are these days to as one indicator of the level of creativity and coming up with new things or new ways for old ideas? (00:20:14) Okay. Any any idea how much how many were churning (00:20:17) out? Nope, I'm sure Doug would like that one. (00:20:20) The it's been estimated that there are over a million patents. I believe for the internet alone that have been submitted that may be that may be an error, but it's an enormous. It's number the measure of creativity and Independence in our economy has been measured by an academic study and basically after a hundred and fifty years of flat entrepreneurial activity during which the number of organizations per thousand population varied from 8 to 15 per thousand the entrepreneurial activity in 1982 from to that period of time until today has tripled and so on a 15-year period of time we have left the hundred and fifty year history of Entrepreneurship in the dust. Our country is very entrepreneurial and nature will continue to be entrepreneurial and nature. It's due to the changing Technologies and that we see coming around every day. It's also due to the fact that larger companies are confronted now with Outsourcing the need to Outsource with global competition after all if for On the internet there a global competitors only a mouse click away and deregulation is also affected large company. So large companies are in fact reducing their employment levels significantly small companies are taking up all of the slack and the Innovative companies are where all of the growth in the employment is in the United States the recent study done by Ernst & Young in October of 98 called entrepreneurship the defining trend of the business world and the 21st century. Can you give us an idea for people who have probably never started a business one part of this that is mystifying and almost scary is the notion that you're kind of Leaping off a cliff here working without a net. If you had 10 people who decided tomorrow they were going to start their business. They saw themselves in this entrepreneurial mode of the 10 people any guesstimate as to how many of them would be deemed a success. (00:22:32) That's that's a tough one. You might have we call them potential entrepreneurs ten potential entrepreneurs and of those if I think studies would show maybe to only two or three really do get started with business and then of the two or three Who start a business then there's all kinds of Statistics as to how long does a typical business continue. What's the chance of failure how many of these businesses that get started just end up being small businesses rather than growing large businesses. I don't know if you want to get into the statistics at this point in time, (00:23:08) but that's a good that gives us a good idea. It's risky business is what we're talking here. It's a risky business and the thesis for entrepreneurial education is based. In fact on some academic research that shows that if an entrepreneur has proceeded through an organized and well respected academic training program the eye. Of success are roughly inverted in other words if it was an 80 percent failure rate before after that person goes through the program. It's about a 20 percent rate of failure. So it's quite a dramatic Improvement in success rates through education. Let's get at least one more caller on here. We before we break for some news headlines Dave. Hi. Hi there. (00:23:54) I dug. This is Dave Adela. I'm a vascular surgeon who started a couple of companies and no Doug pretty. Well. I'm on my car and the way to a hospital. I just wanted to applaud the program and to say that entrepreneurial activity is fantastic and just encourage at people that are thinking about it to have dogged persistence. Because if the one thing in my experience starting companies and bringing out new ideas is the most common thing I've ever heard is that's not possible (00:24:32) Dave before you go away there a quick question for you. How did you overcome your fear of losing your (00:24:38) shirt? I've lost my shirt so many times I can't find them. I mean, I think I watch the fear by failing a lot. I just you know, one thing you learn when you when you're into research and you're into doing new things is is that you're going to fail a lot and didn't allow those failures to get me down. Okay, and the I think it was the sixth company. I started was actually a real (00:25:05) success. Alright, thanks a lot Dave. Yeah, but I appreciate the call is Dave say experience pretty typical. Yeah. It's very typical. In fact, it's said in the industry that you learn more from your failures than you do from your successes. Dave was too kind to plot himself. He's a very very successful entrepreneur in addition to being a vascular surgeon and formed a company that's now traded on the New York Stock Exchange and has helped people through through periods of suffering vary enormously and he continues to generate new ideas. In his in his laboratory and they're very effective ideas and is he said there's there's no substitute for trying and if you're afraid of failing, you're probably not an entrepreneur deep down in your heart. That's Doug Johnson. He's co-director of the center for entrepreneurial studies at the Carlson School of Management at the U of M car leg is with us. He's the director of the entrepreneurship program at Macalester College in st. Paul and we're talking about entrepreneurs this hour or skirt Carlson died last Friday. His funeral is being held three o'clock this afternoon. We thought this would be a great opportunity to look at. Mr. Carlson's life and find out what makes people like, mr. Carlson tick. What is this business of Entrepreneurship and whether it's even possible these days to attempt to replicate his success. Give us a call if you'd like to join our conversations 6512276 thousand. That's our Twin City area number six five. Two two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two four two two eight two eight will get to some more callers in a couple of (00:26:47) minutes (00:26:48) is the weekend your special time to kick back send the kids to the neighbors and relax. Well, don't forget to leave your radio on this Saturday on Minnesota Public Radio is no normal day. It's super Saturday tune in for special editions of sound money Car Talk The Splendid Table This American Life and a very special for our Prairie Home Companion Marathon broadcast starting at 5:00. Why tune in and find out that's this Saturday right here on Minnesota Public (00:27:16) Radio. Programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Ecolab Global partner with leading Hospitality Healthcare and food processing customers improving cleaning and sanitation standards worldwide w-w-w dot Ecolab.com news headlines. Now, here's got a Cunningham (00:27:33) Greta. Good morning. Gary International diplomats say there's going to be a second Kosovo peace Conference next month in France. France's foreign minister told reporters that the work toward a peace agreement between serves and ethnic albanians has not stopped earlier today a US state department spokesman said the ethnic albanians of Kosovo have agreed to sign a peace agreement within two weeks after some technical consultations with people in Kosovo Federal Reserve chairman, Alan Greenspan says the economy should remain solid this year, but he says the stock market swings and possible inflationary pressures could be a threat after a mid-morning dip. The Dow has moved back into positive territory. Some of the American airlines passengers who got stuck in a pilot sick-out have filed suits in Texas and San Francisco against the a Lead Pilots Association, they're asking for at least 150 million dollars in damages on a class action basis the pilots Union President says the suits have no merit in Regional news Governor Ventura wraps up for days in the nation's capital today with a meeting with Minnesota's Congressional Delegation. Mentor has been in Washington for the annual winter meeting of the national Governors Association Mentor heads to New York today to appear on The Late Show with David Letterman their shock and sadness at the Minnesota Vikings headquarters today after the death of newly appointed offensive coordinator chip Myers Myers died of an apparent heart attack. He was 53 Vikings order Red McCombs says Myers had a professional approach and might have become a head coach in the NFL the forecast for the state of Minnesota today calls for Cloudy Skies with a chance of snow in southern Minnesota partly sunny in the north with highs from 25 to around 30 degrees tonight Cloudy Skies with some snow developing in Central and Northern Minnesota lows tonight ranging from 13 in the north to 20 in the south at this hour Duluth reports on Kind of 19 degrees. It's sunny in Rochester and 26 sunny and Fargo and 25 and in the Twin Cities at this hour Cloudy Skies a report of 27 degrees and Gary. That's a look at the latest (00:29:28) news. All right, thank you news headlines from Greta Cunningham. We're talking this first hour of removed a program about entrepreneurs and Entrepreneurship car leggy is with us director of the entrepreneurship program at Macalester College in st. Paul Doug Johnson is here co-director of the center of the for entrepreneurial studies at the Carlson School of Management at the University of Minnesota. The Carlson School, of course named after Kurt Carlson who died last Friday, his funeral is today and we thought this would be an excellent opportunity to take a closer. Look at what mr. Carlson accomplished and talk about the broader world of entrepreneurs what that's all about. And again if you'd like to join our conversation, six five one two, two seven six thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight car leggy before we get back to our callers one thing. Came up during the story about Kurt Carlson his emphasis on working that sixth day five days to stay even the sixth day to get ahead at a time when there's so much emphasis on trying to balance family and work and the rest (00:30:37) I would think it'd be kind of tough (00:30:39) to reach that balance and be a real go-getter business. Tycoon, (00:30:46) certainly is all kinds of research studies show that the typical entrepreneur is putting in between 60 and 80 hours of work per week. That statistic is pretty frightening to those of us who enjoy our 40 or 45 Hour Work Week. And those who are putting in the 60 to 80 hours typically do say they enjoy it that their work is fun as if your work is fun. And that's part of your life so much the better studies that I've done of these Minnesota bankruptcies indicate that quite often when a firm is failing and filed for bankruptcy and gets reported in the Monday morning business page in the Minneapolis paper. It also tends to be a marriage problem taking place to so I think that you're likely to find successful marriages and happy lives with these people are successful entrepreneurs and then you tend to find a correlation the opposite direction the other thing I'd like to point out besides working 60 to 80 hours. Most of these entrepreneurs. The research shows are really don't get started. Tell her 3035 for starting a new business. So you need that training on the front end whether it's working for Procter & Gamble or working from some other entity before you launch your Venture. Hmm, Leo your question. (00:32:02) Yes, I'm calling from or Minnesota and I wanted to hear what the guests have to say about micro-enterprise. I'm some of us up here in the north land st. Louis County near the Canadian border been working to support micro Enterprise which means small entrepreneurs employing five employees or less often just a couple people and I think micro-enterprise has a great potential to help stabilize a community like mine to you know, keep people from moving out of the district save our school and I know that I'm real concerned that Governor Ventura has recommended cutting funds to support micro Enterprise which also emphasizes entrepreneurship for poor people. I think poor people are really the original entrepreneurs because you've got to be entrepreneurial to survive in a low-income. All right and micro-enterprises really providing an opportunity for low-income people and all right. Well, let's get a response. Federal Reserve Federal responsibilities training. I know Senator Graham has been asked to support a bill. (00:33:07) Okay. Well, let's get our response here micro-enterprise is a again very briefly that these are businesses that are started specifically with the idea of staying small. Is that right? I'm not familiar with micro-enterprise at all. To be honest with you Gary. So I'm probably not the best person to comment on this. It's I know that from a general economic point of view any time you reduce the level of decision making down and get it closer to your actual Market. You're going to have an economic benefit, but I'm not familiar with micro-enterprise Carla (00:33:43) you well, I am but I'd like to draw a distinction between entrepreneurship and running a business. There are roughly 10 million businesses in this country that are will call them small with revenues from $1 to maybe 10 million there might only be a hundred thousand businesses that have revenues over 10 million. Entrepreneurships entrepreneur and Entrepreneurship is really about the starting of those businesses or the growing of the businesses. We don't tend to focus on the running of a business. I like micro Enterprises as much as I like apple pie and motherhood. I think we all do but as entrepreneur professors, we don't tend to study how they run or how they do it, but we are interested in how they get launched and whether they can grow to the next level and to the extent that we have a micro-enterprise with five people that within 3-4 years, maybe employees 50 people and really turns a cunt a community around maybe like up in Warroad that kind of thing. We really get a gigantic business out of Marvin Windows. That's one that really catches the attention of we academics. I think (00:34:55) something you hear a lot of entrepreneurs are great at starting businesses. They're awful at running businesses. I guess number one. Is that true? And how is it that Kurt Carlson could start all these businesses and run all these businesses and why I mean is it is it true that the entrepreneur is generally not the best person to actually operate the business and it and if so why Gary my experience and from 10 years in the Venture Capital business, I'd have to say that it I hate to say this but it depends on the person people like Kurt Carlson are very rare and it's more typical for investors who have a certain Outlook and set of expectations for an Enterprise to carry through with the removal of the entrepreneur or the originator of that company at the first sign of major trouble and it's very common for the entrepreneur to become disenfranchised with the whole operation as a result of that and go on to start other businesses. I would also say that there are personality types who are entrepreneurs who are very very sick. Uh sfil who have been limiting themselves to starting business and businesses and bringing in professional managers when it reaches the point where it requires lots of management more so than they have experienced at entrepreneurs are successful in originating businesses because they they see outside the box. They think outside the box that's wonderful aspect of your personality if you're starting a business, but if you're running a business, it can be a little bit problematic. So my experience has been that there there are generally very high rates of turnover as a turnover and an entrepreneurial Enterprises as they are prosecuted through their second and third stages Tom your question (00:36:55) place. Yes. My question is (00:36:57) this I think you mean you're touching it already. Is there any age limit at that? What at when you can become an entrepreneur I'm thinking my case. Only a few years away from retirement. I'm going to be a relatively young person yet, and I finding talents and all in my 40s and I wish I would do about when I was in my 20s. Maybe I can capitalize on them. Then. The other thing is the point is can you try to be part of the corporate world and try it again entrepreneur not an Enterprise be in an airplane is going on the side. I think one of the best examples local man. Remember Jim Klobuchar worked with our Star Tribune wrote for them and they also got to travel Club on the side that he made money on a think. So those are my two points now tape. I answer off the air. Thanks (00:37:39) is Tom too old to become Kurt Carlson. (00:37:42) No, he's not too old. There's no there's no limit on it. I have had guest speakers in my class who started the Enterprise when they were in their 60s. So age is not it's not the problem. I think it's the drive and the desire and as I've told my students before I think to be an entrepreneur you have to be like the Sixth Man on a basketball team you're edging on the seat. You're looking at the coach or trying to get the attention say Put me in put me in and if you have that kind of drive and it's observable doesn't matter if you're (00:38:11) 75 good idea for or is it possible for a person to maintain quote a regular job and then start doing this on the side. It's very difficult to do. There are several conflict of interest issues that you have to get comfortable with in addition to that. If you're really an entrepreneur that's driven by a concept and a vision. It's not likely that you're going to be content to sit in a large corporation doing relatively mundane activities day after day month after month year after year. So it's if you're in if you're truly entrepreneurial and nature working in a large company and you have an idea if you are an entrepreneur you will eventually leave that Corporation and start following your dream. Let him hear comment place. (00:38:58) Yes, I guess was been an entrepreneur the company of about a hundred people. And observe that William (00:39:10) William, I'm sorry. Your phone is breaking up. Can you make your point very quickly? (00:39:14) Hey. (00:39:19) Well, I think his point was that MBA schools and training and so on really saps the energy and the drive of the would be entrepreneur. Obviously you folks don't agree since you're involved well in the Castle (00:39:34) Education McAllister cause we don't even have an MBA degree, but I would disagree with that statement. I don't think it's saps it but it I don't think it's real relevant. Hmm. (00:39:46) It's again in the research that's been done education lowers. The failure rate of new Enterprises at the Carlson School of Management. Our entire focus in the MBA program is on technology-related differentiable business businesses for which there are barriers to entry that are significant. We want to encourage the building of the next Medtronic Honeywell Etc using the technologies that people develop independently as well as those that are developed within the University of Minnesota. And the that's not a simple task. These markets are complex the distribution organizations and methods are complex and there are very few people. I would venture to guess who are capable of doing what Bill Gates did dropping out of college and Company from scratch that then turns into a multi-billion dollar organization. I certainly encourage you to try that but I think the odds of failure are very high. And in fact, you would be better advised to work through nationally recognized program and get as much education as you can in order to pursue your vision. Okay, Mark your (00:41:07) comment. Well, I was driving into Minneapolis and I heard her - oh, it's an excellent show and one of the comments they made was that the if you're afraid you're not an entrepreneur now, I personally have known. Mr. Carlson. I know have known Irwin Jacobs since I was a kid Stan wasi who started up some of the major trucking companies in the United States was a very good friend of our family's went to school with the DuPont's went to school at the fort's from Delta faucet. And it's so wrong that comet is so glaringly wrong to me. These people are deathly. Afraid of failing it's true when they have an idea and that's their Vision. They create you see also made a comment that they see the world outside of the box. They make their own box and once they've created that box they're trapped in their own box and I have talked to these people as they're older and have made their millions and it's the first thing they'll say is it was the best days of their lives when they had nothing because once they started to succeed in money was the denominator money is the scale they were so afraid of failing they were trapped in their own box. There's a company in Minneapolis called Hubler Schwartz, and they do Consulting for family businesses that trade from one generation to the other and I'm sure these guys have heard of them. You have this generational shift this idea where the entrepreneur is trapped in his box and how does he get that box to the Next Generation had the same thing occur Carlson's family. You have the same thing in the Dayton's family. (00:42:46) Okay, let's let's get a comment here on this. I think I'm the fellow that said that if you're afraid of failing, you're not an entrepreneur that probably is taken out of context and what your caller advised is actually true entrepreneurs are afraid of failure. They do not like risk. Their perception of a good deal is to have the reward be available to them while someone else takes the risk. The problem with the world is your very rarely able to arrange that situation. What I meant to say was that entrepreneurs are not so afraid of risk that they don't proceed with their Ventures and the they understand risk they are afraid of it. But yet they start when I get (00:43:36) my number one mentors dick Eichorn who's a well-known Financial Angel not necessarily a venture capitalist here in the Twin Cities. I corn in his own words. He says that he likes to invest in companies where the entrepreneur has a lot of skin in the game and by that what I corn and people like him mean is he likes to see perspective entrepreneur who has remortgaged his home and put his family's net worth on the line because then in many ways that entrepreneur is going to be driven to make sure that businesses more successful So to that extent I think that there is an importance of putting your wealth at risk at least initially, but I think it's only makes common sense that as an if you become somewhat successful to start minimizing the amount of exposure to The Nest Egg. Mmm. Let's get at least one more (00:44:32) caller on here before we wrap up John. (00:44:35) Yeah. My question is I'm a Alum graduate of the Carlson School management, and I've worked in Fortune 100 settings. Last eight years have been involved in entrepreneurial settings. I've also have been an adjunct guest lecturer at the Carlson School management adjunct teacher at the University of Minnesota Duluth. One of the questions. I have just out of curiosity was really how much money over time did Kurt Carlson contribute to the Carlson School of Management and what kind of things that he articulate to its leadership in terms of how we wanted that money spent and what and and basically what his vision was and I'll just kind of hang up and listen because I think I'm sure it's going to be an interesting (00:45:16) answer Doug Johnson. Yes, thank you through the course of Kurt's distinguished career. He donated approximately 28 million dollars to the Carlson School of Management 18 million dollars in 1986 to kick off a larger program to raise a larger Endowment for the University and then till ten million dollars in 1993 and that ten million dollars he donated To the school in 1993 was part of a program to raise 45 million dollars for a new building and because of Kurt's enthusiasm generosity and Pure Drive that fundraising campaign was very very quickly accomplished. The building was completed and as of January of 98 the Carlson School occupied the building, he also gave a million dollars to the school in 1984. The Carlson distinguished lecture Series where we brought in 41 world-class speakers throughout the last few years as part of that program. He's endowed 5 Carlson endowed chairs in accounting decision science entrepreneurship marketing and Strategic Management to Carlson professorship endowments and Industrial relations and finance and has donated enough cash to generate 20 scholarships per year for worthy and needy students in Program so Kurt's not only donated Capital to the fund Capital raising programs, but also to students as a result of this enormous generosity on mr. Carlson's part the Carlson School of Management in the past seven years has risen from number 44 and the US News and world rankings to number 27 on a very very in a straight line incremental operation. And I think probably the most most of us have the memory of Kurt as an infectious entrepreneurial can-do spirit with lots of moxie who was dedicated not only to the capital necessary to educate people but also the personal interaction to the bright committed and students that he was coaching. We're just about out of time here car leggy before we wrap up is Minnesota a good place to Foster new Kirk Carlson's. (00:47:36) Oh certainly it is just at our school. We had the alare brothers who've been written up in the paper last couple of days who spent four Years taking their expertise in the internet and they just went public with a company and we now have three Mac grads who are in their 20s who have net worths between fifty and a hundred million dollars. So I wish maybe we can tap them later on and they can start the allari school of something rather than a cat one of the things I'm envious about but I won't tell you about we'll have to talk about it when we're off the air. Okay. I'm getting the high sign. (00:48:09) Well, we're out of time. Unfortunately. Thanks so much for coming in gentlemen, really? Appreciate it. Thank you Gary. Yep Our Guest this our car leggy director of the entrepreneurship program at Macalester College in st. Paul Doug Johnson co-director of the center for entrepreneurial studies at the Carlson School of Management at the U of M heard Carlson who died on Friday services are being held for. Mr. Carlson three o'clock this afternoon at Hennepin Avenue United (00:48:33) Methodist. (00:48:40) Wednesday the weather was called the phones were hot. We were tied to the phones like sales to a sailboat. It's Minnesota public radio's annual spring pledge drive and we need your help volunteer to answer phones beginning February 24th at our Saint Paul headquarters free parking will be provided and oh, yeah fun call six five. One two nine zero twelve twelve any time with the facts just the facts. Thanks. (00:49:04) This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio over the noon hour today a new documentary about teens with HIV.