Public radio I'm Tim pugmire the Minnesota Association of school administrators says a proposed code of ethics for superintendents and principals is unrealistic. The State Board of Education has developed rules of conduct for licensed administrator similar to those in place for teachers m a s a executive director Dale Jensen says he opposes a requirement in the code that a school administrator shall protect students and staff from convict conditions harmful to health and safety the way it's worded now. It's it's like we're going to guarantee that health and safety and and so we want we want standards that are realistic and don't put administrators in Jeopardy the day they go into a force that administrative law judge will take testimony on the proposed code of ethics it a public hearing tomorrow in Little Canada.The US Supreme Court has rejected a challenge to a Minnesota laws regulating garbage collection processing and Disposal the high court without comment or descent today denied appeal by the national Solid Waste Management Association over the 1991 law requiring County's to develop Waste Management plans, the trade Association claims, the law unconstitutionally restricts Interstate Commerce in Waste Disposal Services. The Pillsbury company will close a plant in New Jersey that makes Haagen-Dazs ice cream. Sorbet frozen yogurt and other Foods the Woodbridge New Jersey Plan will close January 15th Pillsbury officials. Say the move will cut manufacturing costs cloudy Statewide today a chance of light snow in the Northwest this afternoon highs ranging from the upper twenties to around forty.That's news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Tim pugmire. Thank you. Jim 6 minutes now past 11. Good morning, and welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Acton glass good glad you could join us. No doubt about it. Jesse Ventura is election really hit a 10 on the Minnesota political Richter scale and everybody and their brother has been trying to figure out what that election was all about. What will be the aftershocks? What message did he was actually sent today? We're going to focus on one part of that. I'm going to scussion namely weather. Minnesota should change the way it's selex and Alexa candidates or three years now is participation in politics is decline. There have been a number of suggestions on how to change the system. So all this talk about the need for changes at new but with the Ventura Victoria a lot more people are taking all that talk a lot more seriously is the two party system. For example, Dad should we scrapped the precinct caucuses once and for all she would change the timing of the state primary perhaps change the nature of the primary. Perhaps have a another primary for that matter. Should we Change the very way we vote get away from our current winner-take-all system. Lots of questions are being posed not going Secretary State Joe and grow who has been at the Forefront of a number of efforts to change. The electoral system has joined us today is Minnesota's Chief elections officer probably knows as much as anybody about the pluses and minuses of all these various ideas. She stopped by today to talk about some of the changes that are now being talked about and of course we invite you to join our conversation as well. Give us a call Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach us toll-free at 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8280. Thanks for coming in today. Thank you for having me busy getting all your boxes packed up trying to clean house after 26 years in public office. You accumulate a lot you say the lot I've discovered. Is it that I would imagine that's kind of a mom not depressing That's The Bitter Sweet It Is to a degree. I hate, you know, we had boxes down in storage and you're always afraid to throw things in government before you might need it again, or maybe you need to keep it and so will come across something to remember when we did this project or I'll look at that and so it's been in a little bit of history is as we go through everything and send it over to the History Center know before we get started here with the various election proposals. I suppose the interest of full disclosure. We should point out life long. You been a lifelong Democrat that is true of an active supported the Democratic candidates when I had my political had on this year, but also I have been a proponent for Change and haven't always agreed. I'm afraid with my party or members of my party or sometimes Democratic legislators. So we've had our Rd. Agreements over what what rules the party should play at and what should be done related to elections after every election. It seems there's a there's a flurry of talk about where we need to change this that or the other thing and generally speaking. Nothing much has changed you think this is actually different. Well, it could be that happens. There's always an immediate reaction. I always worry about that people are reacting to a special set of circumstances that may never repeat themselves, but we should really be surprised because Minnesota has a long history of supporting third-party candidates for Governor. We have had several Governors who came from from third parties if you will, but I think the reaction this time has been a little stronger and perhaps it's because people were so taken by surprise in many cases with the Ventura win, and they're trying to analyze it and figure out what happened. What on Earth went wrong do you get the sense that there's any consensus developing around any one or two things? That's that that should be changed. No, I don't know not the things should be changed. I think there is definitely some consensus that the public has lost its Faith or its trust in political parties or in that system that we use for our political parties. I didn't most people I've talked to say we've got to do something about that. Most people I've talked to as I am are thrilled that new people voted and have participated and hope that they remain a part of the system and I think people are are really quite optimistic about Jesse Ventura and and certainly look forward to his leadership and what will probably be a very special time in Minnesota History. The one of the things we've heard a lot the last week or two is that this Victory by a third-party can it really seems to open up open up the system in a way that wouldn't get with one of the two major party candidates winning. I think that's probably true. The reform party has been an official political party for a while, but they struggle they've never really made much of a mark in elections. They managed to keep their status as a major party, but they haven't had a winning candidate. And so this is the first time that they have had a candidate who who is a winner that I think gives more status to the party at all. So I would guess we all be an incredible boost to the Reform Party and helping them to build membership. Yo structure at Setter with her party, but I think the one thing that that I I would want to caution people about is that Yes, I think we need to look at our election system. I've been advocating that for years. And yes, I think while we're doing it we might as well look at different kinds of systems, whether it's proportional or runoffs or whatever it is. And yes, we might want to have a conversation about the role of political parties in and do we want to encourage more minor parties or do we want to try to just keep major political parties, but I would hate to see people rush in the legislature rush in and make some change. Just reacting to what happened in the last election. I think it's it's a big enough topic that it's worthy of some study and taking some real time to look at it thoroughly. Let's work our way through some of the ideas that have surface so far are those be listening to you like to join our conversation. We're trying this hour with outgoing Secretary of State Joan growe. How about some of the ideas that have surfaced about ways to perhaps change the way Minnesota's election system operates, the way candidates are selected the way we vote the way the whole system is structured you'd like to join our conversation. Give us a call to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand out side the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8281 thing that certainly predates this election that Heard of the year after year. We need to change the precinct caucus system UI set up a task force for 5 years ago. We ended up being called the broken as we came out with several recommendations people aren't participating in the caucuses support is declining endorsed candidates aren't getting elected as often as a have been and in fact it it's interesting to note that the last time an endorsed non-incumbent candidate was elected governor on the dfl side goes back to 1970 with Wendell Anderson. And on the Republican side to alcuin 1978. Otherwise, we haven't had a candidate who was noncommittal came through the system and gotten into ours but we advocated moving the primary up earlier in the season so that you know who the major-party candidates are. We advocated that can. Date if they want to file as a major Party candidate have to get some level of support from their political party, which we felt would strengthen the parties. We said, you got to simplify those carcasses, you know him on a weekend cut out a couple of those conventions are meeting make it easier so that people can participate I was listening to public radio when I was driving the other day and must have been talking about this subject and somewhere another and a man came on the radio and said called in and said he said I've been a lifelong Democrat needs to die do a little bit work for the party. But you know, he said to be active you have to have either a part-time job or you're not or not work at all. And he said I have a full-time job and a family. He said you can't be active and be a real part of it being Insider unless you have an awful lot of time availability. So those changes have been talked about for a number of years to the legislature. And of the political parties and it will be interesting to see if there is any reaction from the party's basic theory behind the precinct caucus being that it really allows everybody to participate the problem. Of course is that very few people actually participate because perhaps the way the meetings are run. What about just changing the most sounds goofy, but even just changing the name of what those things are if you were to ask I suppose a lot of people on the street. What is a Precinct caucus they look at you with a Blank Stare. I think that's probably true is wrong with using the name meeting. I don't say I didn't realize how about neighborhood meeting or gathering of neighbors or something because that's really what it is and it seems every two years we have to go out and explain again. What is a Precinct caucus but they are a little overly bureaucratic and a little cumbersome and meet in the winter at 8 at night or whatever changes might help bring people there. Primaries Governor ardy Carlson suggested the other day that maybe one way to go would be and I I don't fully understand he's going to be on tomorrow on the mid-morning program talk more about this, but and I don't pretend to fully understand what he was what he was proposing but it seemed like what he was suggesting is that each of the parties would have a primary in the spring which would essentially replace this this a long process and then you'd have another primary to winnow down the candidates in in September of should we what are the pluses and minuses of moving to multiple primary system. Well it in and I'm not sure I fully understand what that but the governor's proposal is either. I haven't I haven't seen anything in writing. I think it's similar to what is done in the state of Louisiana and perhaps some other southern states were they have a runoff and I believe he's proposing that you know, all the candidates appear together on the ballot and then the top two Go on to face the voters what I know of runoff systems makes me a little skeptical and we have to do some studying I think but people who are in the South office holders in the South have told me that the systems developed in the South when the Democratic party was strong in the South was really a 1-1 party part of the country. And so the system was developed to keep the Democratic party strong not to allow the Republicans to make any inroads and to keep people of color off the ballot. And so that was why the system of runoffs was put into place well, whether that's still true or not or whether it would still work that way it's something I don't know at this stage, but I think it is worth looking into any other factor. Is that every time you hold a Statewide election it it cost three and a half million dollars. And so you need to look at The cost factor in terms of the benefits heard a lot about over the years and you've been real active and it is is the idea of making it especially making it easier for people to vote to remove some of those barriers this past election though seemed like she would indicate that it's it's very easy for people to vote if they're interested in voting. Lots of people get out and vote and maybe we don't need to move to other systems. What do you think we should voting is a right that people have it's it's not a privilege. We Grant to you. It's your right and I've always believed that those of us who administer elections. It's our responsibility to help you carry at that right? So we let people register by mail or they can register on Election Day with the proper identification and we see a lot of people doing that. It's interesting though this year for people live in Ramsey County. Not able to get their ballots by mail unless they had a specific reason lots of complaints about that people liked having that kind of access to the ballot. I think that enabling people to vote in an easier manner is just the next step that we need to take. We are allowing people to vote by mail in parts of Minnesota. It occurs on ballot issues, but certainly the experience that has taken place in other states tells us that it cost less per voter you get a better turnout and it really is at the convenience of the voter and that's the way I think an election system should be should be developed for the convenience of the voter rather than the convenience of Administrators another idea that surfaced since the election. It should be easier goes the theory for parties to essentially form get on the ballot get public financing major party status and so on pluses and minuses of that is that is that a good Trend or the end up with a real splintered situation where nobody represents much of anything except their five friends. I suppose it really isn't very difficult to become a major political party. If you have enough supporters for your philosophy in your ideas, you have to get 5% of the boat running a Statewide candidate and you have to receive a boat from every County. And then once you have that major party status, you don't have to file my petition. Your candidates have a primary and you're eligible for public financing. I think what is a greater question is Does Minnesota want to encourage lots of political parties or do we want to just encourage two or three or four very strong parties? And that's really that's really a philosophical question that I need to legislate your has to look at if they want to Foster lots of philosophies and lots of parties on the ballot major parties. Then they want to lower the standard on how you become a major party, you know, there's pluses and minuses both ways. Most people say that you're better off with a strong or two or three party system that you get all these candidates and all his major parties and all this competition is just way too confusing for people. I don't know if that's true. We we have a system that sits man to produce the majority. A lot of countries has systems that are really meant to produce coalitions. And I think there's quite a difference between the two. I'll go and check Thursday. Jonesboro is our guest this hour or we're working our way through a number of ideas that have surfaced. Well many of them before the election this month, but they certainly have gotten a lot more attention since the election suggestions on how we might change the way we select and elect our candidates and if you'd like to join our conversation again, 227-6020 area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 802-422-8284 Scholars from Minneapolis Peter and I spent the weekend with impella the booger conference over at the Humphrey Institute and Carlson School of Management. It was mainly attended by members of alternate bodies. I saw a few Democrats or Republicans independents. And ideas I can send one of bugging and proportional representation where the main topics one of the speakers spoke about the political depression in the United States in which they dropped and confidence in the major party system has been more precipitous from the drop in industrial production during the Depression of the 1930s and instant runoff for preference voting. I was one of the ideas advance to bring more voters back to the polls has been declining for the participation along with declining photo book the controversy surrounding Jesse Ventura selection. Would he have been elected by a larger majority? I have there been 1 2 3. Let's bring of candidates. Could have been sold Prince with Monopoly. It would also promote greater participation by both candidates and fodor's what do you know about instant runoff? First of all, we should explain how that would work. I guess you go into The Ballot Box and you're not you don't vote for just one person. But then you list a second choice correct to do and and I'm not sure I'm I think probably the caller knows a lot more about it than I do. But you do vote at first and second and press the third choice and so that I understand in some cases when the when the First Choice candidate has gotten enough votes for example to have a majority then then your second choice then anyone else who voted for that first pres candidate their second choice. Goes outside and I don't know how to explain it. Well I'm using my hands are very good for radio. Is it but but it does say that that vote count in different ways, you know, our system isn't set up to count that way. That's really a minor part of it. I think it's an interesting. I think it's an interesting idea to explore. I'm not an expert in that area or very knowledgeable about it, but it is meant to ensure multi-party representation and I think it does give people the assurance that that they're both isn't always said that some people would say it is my sense though that your votes are never wasted that even if your candidate doesn't win you have at least expressed your opinion and and made some kind of a statement by not voting for The Winning candidate and quite frankly. I'm not concerned about governor-elect Ventura. I mean, I don't I don't think it was a disaster this election or anything. I I think we need to be nervous in the state of Minnesota. Put together a good transition team. I think he'd be talked about some of the issues. He didn't have a lot of plans but I think he's going to be okay as Governor. I mean, I really have some High Hopes And so I hate to see people reacting to strongly because he was elected. I'm wondering cuz this was an issue that he dealt with directly repeatedly during the campaign the idea that voting for him was not a wasted vote. In fact, he argued just the opposite and so I'm wondering since he did win whether or not that will tell voters in the future and you're not wasting your boat by voting for whoever or something and I think the political parties most of us the media no one would have expected a third-party candidate to win the governor's office. I mean, we just wouldn't have an anybody. Says they did. She isn't telling me the truth. I've only made it all seem close to Jesse knew it but it was a long shot campaign. Now, maybe people should have seen it coming as that he became closer in the polls. But the message had been well, why would you want to go vote for Jesse? He isn't going to win that was kind of the message from the political parties it so that's where I think the Ventura came campaign came back with Andrew and they should rightly they should have hey your vote isn't wasted. I do have an opportunity to win. I am going to win this campaign, but in many cases people will vote for a third party candidate or minor party candidates, and they know that candidate isn't going to win in this case. They did Tony your next good place and I know a secretary grow from Together in the past. This is Tony told I wondered if that was you Tony. Hello. Thank you Canada. See I think we've we've seen a lot of the benefits of a competitive third party in the race with the higher voter turnout in and I think it to show that that there's a lot of support for change out there in the electric but at the same time he's got a little bit of a challenge in front of him because he had 37% of the voting and 63% of the people voted for somebody else and at the same time he has no members of his party in the legislature. So he's really got to challenge in front of them and the the governor's proposal for a run-off elections. I think secretary girl already mentioned some of the difficulties with that. Add that I think it's some would have the effect of reducing voter turnout in the van reducing the number of people who actually help choose the the governor and there are better ways in the instant runoff. I think we have the conference this weekend. We we demonstrated help that can actually accomplish majority rule and do it in a way that involves third-party candidates and and allows all of the voters to vote their true intentions and not get caught in that trap of feeling like they they might waste their vote. So the other thing is we have a real diverse Society in in a society where we can go to the grocery store and find how many different kinds of breakfast cereals. Why is it that when we go to vote, we only really have two viable choice is on the ballot. I think we need to to move to an election system. Why we can actually represent the diversity of political thought in the in the society. How important do you think it is growth at Canada's have the support of the majority of Voters. Somebody was doing Collins or political editor here was doing some statistical work on this and I'm not sure what he finally found but I I think I think this is accurate that when you consider the fact how many more people voted this time Ventura ended up with the probably as many actual supporters are very close to it as saying Arne Carlson would have already perpich in a two-way race at its concern maybe as other people think I should be about the fact that that he didn't have a clear majority of the voters. There were three candidates in The Race 3 strong candidates as I said earlier. Minnesota had minnesotans have a streak of Independence and they have long supported third-party candidates for Governor that I think we've had something like 13 governor elected who didn't have a majority of the vote including Elmer Anderson and in Floyd Olson and you know what? I don't think we ever say they were hampered by that at the federal level. We've had presidents who have been elected without a majority of the boat because of turnout is is solo primarily, but I think there are challenges for mr. Ventura as is Tony mentioned challenges like not having party members in the legislature not having a wealth of talent for heads to draw but I think that you'll find unique ways to deal with that and maybe it will be healthy for a while in the State House is now controlled by the Republicans to send it by the Democrats and The governor's office by the Reform Party. I mean it's going to be a very interesting mix and in a very interesting time, I think for the establishment if you will and so I think that rather than serve bemoaning the fact and then that's not to say we shouldn't be examining alternative the new things to do. I think we should do this as an opportunity that maybe this is the time when if anyone can do it Ventura can decide it's not going to be government as usual or Politics as Usual and my guess is you know, it's often hard to make changes in election laws because it's the legislature who has to vote on it and the governor has to sign the bill and they all got elected under the current system in there very very slow to want to make changes, but I don't think Jesse Ventura is going to be like that and so my guess is that he's probably interested in some kind of election reform. What kind of change but as I said before I don't think it's only we need to rush into one system before we know what the impact is going to be or how it will impact Us in the state. Our goal should be easy access to registration voting for every citizen of Minnesota. Try to get at which we've been trying to do try to get at the sense of apathy and cynicism that exist out there try to get our institutions whether they be the political parties are there were state government or your local mayors office try to get those institutions reacting more to people and somehow get people involved so that they feel that they have a stake in what's happening in those are the goals might easy to say very difficult to achieve through some of the suggestions that have surfaced of the Lamb. Tweaker. So about possible ways. We could change the way we select candidates and elect candidates in the state of Minnesota. And if you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 802-422-8284 get to some more callers in just a moment. I'm learning Benson on Mondays All Things Considered at the turn of the century. Minnesota. Timber was marketed from New York to Denver good cheap Lumber to help build this country Minnesota to turn of the century was the was the king of white pine logging today's All Things Considered our state our forest a special report all this week. Programming a Minnesota Public Radio is supported by carousel automobiles The Oddities store celebrating the arrival of the new 1999 Audi A6 and A6 Avant wagon, 544-9591 or the noon hour today. It's off to the national press club or going to hear from author Tom Wolfe who's out with a new book a man in full Tom Wolfe at the Press Club today over the noon hour here on midday. And that while we have just a moment again a big hearty. Thanks to all of you who participated in our membership Drive 80 believe this or not 8300 people called and either take out new membership to renew their memberships during the drive. $775,000 is what you folks. So pledged to support news music programming here on Minnesota Public Radio amazing figure record-setting $775,000. We thank you profusely and hopefully Hope we put that money to go to use keep our feet to the fire here cloudy skies are forecast for the state today with the chance for light snow in Northwestern Minnesota this afternoon highs upper twenties in the north to around forty in the South Twin Cities cloudy this afternoon with a high near forty right now. It's 38 and cloudy in the Twin Cities roads across the state General Lee in the fair to good winter driving condition with two exceptions roads are in poor condition and the Bemidji area and fair to poor in the Crookston area, otherwise fair to good across the state Joan growe outgoing secretary of state is our guest the sour were talking about the suggestions on how we might change the way we selected Electronics in Minnesota and lots of callers on the line here gym Goliad place. Yes, when I was thinking maybe we need to go to a form of independent parliamentary system of government such as one that I guess I could model B, Canada. Probably what was their parties or persons or what-have-you that participate in government and encourage participation in government. It seems like that's what they get for sickly. I'm thinking of the province of Quebec the Eastern provinces of Prince Edward Island Nova Scotia New Brunswick, that would be a significant dramatic shift in the way. We operate Canada still has a system where government actively goes out door-to-door and registers people which is much more aggressive and user-friendly than what we've decided to do in this country, but it would be dramatically different you see these systems generally used in parliamentary systems wear a quota set up for a party to two. Need to qualify to be included and then each party in some cases. The party has a list of candidates. They might have a list of 50 people rank 1 through 50 and when the individual citizens going to vote their voting for the party and then depending upon they don't vote for individual people. They vote for the party and then depending upon how many votes the party gets. That's how many of the people from their slate are in their governing body. That system is used in in many countries. It was used in in South Africa when I was there observing that vote in and you just had a ballot with the names of the parties on it and in the case of of South Africa because of the high rate of illiteracy, they also put up photo of the head of the party the person who would be president. For example, if they were voted that that that is an interesting system to study In a system like that is on the party rather than the individuals that bolt in the carrots really that is correct in the voters are voting for the party and the party itself and I don't know how they do it or by what means have selected the individuals who will take their seats say in in in the parliament or hear it would be in the legislature. So that's another interesting way of doing it. Do you know in a system like that? Will there be a way for a a Jesse Ventura? For example, let's say he had not been endorsed by the Reform Party of four person like that. They even get on the ballot. I understand at least the bells I've seen in the Run for the top office. I think you'd have to be affiliated with a party. Your name would have to be on the party list 2 when you can't file as an individual candidate for example, its the parties who hold that control makes very strong political parties often has a great number of parties so that everyone's Has a place to go that kind of meats their philosophy incumbent come about on our ballot. And what would it take to remove it or if there's any possibility of any advantages or disadvantages State before you run their you mean? I think the only time that incumbents are listed is is for the judicial elections right now. You know Gary I think you're correct. I die. No incumbent is listed for judges, but it is not listed for other candidates. Should it be? Well, but that would that make it easier for people to vote. If the whole point here is to make it easier for people to make a decision. I don't know it would give it would give people another piece of information. It was interesting. It was the subject of some conversation with the legislature in as legislator sat there. They weren't quite sure. They wanted to be known as then, because often people just want to vote against the incumbent. So they want to vote against the establishment. They want to vote for the Challenger. It is certainly information that could be available. But the way that would happen is if the legislature would have to decide that that was information. They wanted on the ballot has there been in terms of pain for elections and in terms of financing campaigns in the rest has there been any talk about substantially changing the way public money is distributed to the various parties. Well, I think there has been some and I think you will see some more conversation about that in the future as they get into conversations about how the structure will Right. Now it's only major parties that qualify for funds for their candidates and have the availability of the check-off system and as you know certain the conversations about whether or not the amount is set at an adequate level in at the timing to receive funds. I think all of that will be looked at whether that should be extended. You know, the minor parties. I think it's probably a question that that the legislature may have before them there. A lot of people who want to do away with any public financing whatsoever. I think it's always an open question about the financing of campaigns in Minnesota. Yes, I am number things to say starting off with a the primary when I went to the voting booth Ian. I want there was three Democrats and and two Republicans that I wanted to vote for it and I wasn't allowed to do that cuz you have to vote for the whole party in the primary in that and then that just disgusted me. I really so you'd like to see that the party primary treated more as a regular election is that this is your choosing that the individual for the party but from my point of view, I'm still choosing which people I want to go ahead to the general election as an individual and I wanted this particular Republican to go ahead to the general election and this particular democratic. Go ahead. It doesn't really made me mad and I know other people I talked to could you have another Point here will get a comment on that one. Okay. I'm curious. How did the Reform Party? Become so big in that and I know you see their eagle symbol now right next to the donkey and the Elephant in there. They're their candidates on the ballot. Is there a step-by-step process if you wanted to start your own political party that you could understand how to do that deal with those two comments and questions you are not alone in your complaints about when you vote in the primary that you have to only vote for candidate to one party. The history of that is that a primary is really a party function held at public expense is the way I described it. It is meant to be the opportunity for party members to choose the candidates. They want to appear on the ballot in the fall in some states, you know that they register by party. So when you go in there, they know if you're a Democrat or Republic And that's the only bout you get in some of those states. You have to if you want to switch parties that you're you have to re-register six months before the primary. So Minnesota actually requires you to vote for candidates of only one party, but at least you can do it in the privacy of the voting booth and no one knows if you voted for Democratic candidate the Republican candidate, but I know we get dozens of complaints about it every year primarily I think because people don't understand what a primary is a call or Daniel is without saying it kind of endorsing the idea that Gunnar Carlson had where you went. Once you get to that primary. It's open season pick the best to and off you go but certainly undercurrent system. He's unhappy with that. How did the Reform Party get to be so prominent their candidate won the governorship this Is is a simple answer but for a party if you wanted to form a political party in the States, you can do that and you can if you're a minor party, you can get your candidates on the ballot by filing petitions and you have to get a certain number of signatures on a petition form depending upon what office it is. You want to file candidate for whether it's the legislature or whether it's for the governor's office. And it really it isn't a huge number of signatures that we always say you could get if you stand out on the Nicollet Mall for a day or two, you'll get enough people to sign up to qualify as a major political party. You have to run a candidate Statewide and get 5% of the vote that candidate has to get at least 5% of the boat and you have to have at least one vote from every County and then you need to keep that going every two years. We have a Statewide election every Years and your party needs to keep that minimum level of support to remain a major party. So that that's really what it takes to qualify as a major political party. Do you expect there's going to be grumbling that it's too easy to become an officially designated major party. Now, we're going to have a 4th won. The Minnesota taxpayers party their candidate for state auditor got the sufficiently required 5% And so that party at least for the time being is designated as a major party presumably I heard the commentator the other night on Almanac Whose Name Escapes me right at the moment, but he was suggesting that we might very well end up with like a party of people of color party. Where are the an ugly various ethnic minorities would get together. They could easily get their 5% and then they'd be a major party. They'd be a major party and eligible for public financing. I heard someone saying that maybe we should form a woman's party get all the women in the state to sign up. I think again it goes back to the question of do you believe that the state's better Serve the People are better served by having lots of parties in the throes making it very very easy for parties to function or do you think we're better served by having some kind of a test that separates the minor parties from the major parties. I mean, it's a major philosophical question. And and I think that's when the legislature will have to look at Robert your question or comment. Yes, I want to support the audio instant run out run off as hell and sliske's leske of the Reform Party proposed. I'm looking at this as a member of a third-party. I'm a member of the Grassroots party and hey if I had a second choice, that could be chalid. I could have voted for Chris Wright and then my second gold for the Ben Humphrey and then it would have thought I wouldn't have to worry about cold and getting elected. Now, of course, I was very concerned, not get elected this election. So close so I didn't have that alternative and I'd also say even though Tony solgar kind of said that there were many other ways to get representation for a third parties of people with dissing views. He didn't specify what it is and he just said there are many other And that's just not good enough. I'd be interested in hearing about the many other ways. But unfortunately, he didn't go into and specify what they were and also the instant runoff seems to be the best solution to me. Okay, well in defense of our earlier call her I might add that I didn't give him an opportunity to talk on extensively about those alternate ways. But I do think in and I was not at the conference that they understand they had a very successful conference and a lot of these issues were discussed in in great detail. I I've seen such a brief reporting of it from the newspapers, but it would be my hope perhaps that if they can the conference organizers will put out some kind of information about it or papers or something that would be beneficial to people who were not there or what have you heard. Is the people who attended this weekend conference? I mean, they're they're very active in this and they spend a lot of time studying it so on so forth and what do you get the sense? For example that all the people who voted on November 3rd who traditionally don't bulk are they the kind of people who would sit in stool about this kind of thing seems to me that when they got in through as they want and voted for the person they believed in and and that was the end of it that seems to be what the case was in all we really have is some anecdotal evidence that there were lots of young people who it said heck I hadn't bothered about before I didn't ever there was no Canada like but I like Jesse so that I think it was the strength of the personality quite frankly up of Jesse Ventura that brought people to the polls not not the platform of the Reform Party. Now, who knows what the platform of the Reform Party is are the Democratic and Republican party people don't didn't pay a lot of attention to that. But I think that that the Reform Party was six Full because their candidate was Jesse Ventura and so a lot of these people have been disenchanted. He he managed to ignite something in people that gave them some hope or promise that hey things are not going to be the way they were and even though the economy is pretty good. And in most people are not suffering because of that decent economy there was and is a cynicism about government and a distrust if you will of the established political parties in of our government in Jesse's truck that nerve that said, I'm Different it's going to be different you can count on me and you trust me. I think people just reacted to it for a wrap up here in just about a time poles that are published in the media right before elections. Now people have different views on those my question to you as chief. Collections officer is is there any evidence one way or the other that they affect how people vote? I don't know of any evidence that says they impact how people vote. I always caution people depending who does the polling they're not screening properly and I think we saw that and into some degree because they usually ask people who have been voters are who are registered to vote in his we know lots of new people came out and registered so they weren't very accurate. What I don't like are the exit polls where they started talking about what exit polls were showing at about 3 or 4 in the afternoon. I don't think that's appropriate. I think any results of what they get from exit polling should be held until the polls close. Voter registration you said it's important to make it as easy as possible would certainly have done that in the state of Minnesota. Is there a need to follow up to make sure that people aren't cheating in some way. We do follow up everyone registers whether they do it ahead of time whether they do it by mail or they do it in person whether they do it on Election Day is mailed a non forwardable card that says you're registered to vote. And here's where you go to vote. And if that card comes back to the election ministrator, they take that voter registration that person's challenge when they come in to vote every single. One of them is followed up to be sure that people are living where they say they're living and are who they say they are but quite frankly what you have to look at is that we have had registration by mail on Election Day registration place in Minnesota since 1973. And we have had almost no fraud-related to it. I would guess that there have been maybe three or four cases of people who voted in the wrong place and did it deliberately but interested lie enough, they were not people who are attempting to affect the outcome of the election and vote twice. They were people who the nuisance. But you know, and they didn't realize it and they just went and bought at their old address. So fraud is not the problem in Minnesota if we could spend as much time and energy on figuring out why people won't participate as we spend tearing our hair out over fraud we be better off. Thank you. Jonesboro joining the shower to talk about some of the many many ideas for changing the election system in Minnesota that have surfaced since the election. I'm Ray Suarez President Clinton is off to Malaysia this weekend to attend the asia-pacific economic cooperation trade Summit with the ongoing Asian financial crisis and increasing interdependence of the world economy. This year's meeting is taking on greater significance. Join us for an update of the Apec Summit and how Americans might be affected by the Region's problems on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. Talk of the Nation coming up at 1 this afternoon. And here is The Writer's Almanac for Monday. It's the 16th of November 1998. It's the rest of the father of the Blues WC handy for a 1973 in the town of Florence, Alabama. He was a school teacher and conducted the school band and he was the one who nudged the style of music known as Ragtime into the Blues by adding a particular note of the scale into a song the flatted 7th. The Blue Note 3 was biggest hits Beale Street Blues St. Louis Blues and Memphis Blues. It's the birthday of playwright who wrote many hit Broadway shows in the twenties and thirties George S Kaufman 1889 in Pittsburgh Road Of Thee I Sing you can't take it with you and many others. It's the birthday of one of the best-selling writers of the 1920s Michael Arlen born in Bulgaria as Bikram koumjian an Armenian or 1995. Best remembered for one book the green hat which came out in 1924 story set in Mayfair in London. It's the birthday of composer Paul hindemith born in Frankfurt 1895 who was kicked out of Germany in the early thirties by the Nazis for composing what they called, spiritually non-aryan music can be divided States taught at Yale for many years. He was still writing in the old major and minor Keys when many composers at the time. We're riding a tune music you got a lot of criticism for it and he wants road to a friend. I am gradually beginning to feel like a Cornerstone on which every passerby can pass the water of his artistic opinion. It's the birthday in 1930 of the United Jerian novelist chinua Achebe author of Things Fall Apart and heels of the savanna and other books. And today is Israel. I'll mi'raj the day in the Islamic calendar when Muslims commemorate the Journey of the Prophet Muhammad from Mecca to Jerusalem and his Ascension and of the seven heavens and return the same night Muslims believe that that night Muhammad prayed with Abraham Moses and Jesus in Jerusalem. Here's a poem for today by Marge Piercy entitled to have without holding. Learning to love differently is hard love with the hands wide open love with the doors banging on their hinges the cupboard unlocked the wind roaring and whimpering in the rooms R Us swing the sheets and snapping the blinds. That's whack like rubber bands and an open Palm. It hurts to love wide-open stretching the muscles that feel as if they're made of wet plaster than a blunt knives than a sharp knives. It hurts to swore to the reflexes of grab clutch to love and let go again and again it pesters to remember the lover who is not in the bed to hold back. What is owed to the work that gutters like a candle in a cave without air tool of consciously conscientiously concretely constructively. I can't do what you say. It's killing me, but you thrive you glow on the street like a neon raspberry you float and say all the helium balloon bright bachelor's button blue and bobbing on the cold and hot Winds of our breath as we make and unmake in passionate diastole and systole. The rhythm of our Unbound bonding to have and not to hold to love with minimized malice hunger and anger Moment by moment balanced the poem by Marge Piercy to have without holding from her collection. The Moon is always female used by permission here on The Writer's Almanac for Monday, November 16th made possible by primedia workplace learning producers of the Health and Sciences television network be well. Do good work and keep in touch. It's 12 noon. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio. Tom Wolf at the national Press Club live coming up next and again a hearty. Thank you to all of you who are members Minnesota Public Radio specially those of you who helped with a record-setting pledge Drive last week 8300 people signed up. On Mondays all things considered the first in our week-long series our state our forests listen for a history of Minnesota's forests at 5:30. It's all things considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a cloudy sky 38° at care W. I found 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul The Weather Service says it will be cloudy all afternoon with a high near 40 cloudy tonight low 3235 partly cloudy done tomorrow with a high temperature in the low 40s chance for rain sleet or snow by Wednesday.