Good morning with news from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm here at Jantzen bulldozers have started demolishing the Sumner field public housing project in North Minneapolis the demolition which began this morning is the outcome of a lawsuit settled for years ago charging the government with housing discrimination for concentrating poor people in one part of the city 384 families have moved out of some of their field mostly to other parts of the City and surrounding suburbs. Muriel Humphrey Brown's friends and admirers are remembering her today. She died yesterday at age 86 and in Minneapolis Hospital Brown was the Widow of former Senator and vice president Hubert Humphrey. Perhaps the most popular Minnesota politician of the century Jane Freeman wife of former Governor Orval Freeman says, she first met Muriel Humphrey 57 years ago and the two remain friends over the years. That's what happened take Lily remember because I think people nowadays remember only as a public figure. I remember her as a warm loving caring friend and and Homemaker Muriel Humphrey was the only woman to represent Minnesota in the US Senate Governor Rudy perpich appointed her to fill out the remainder of her late husband's turn in January 1978 a private burial and a public memorial service are tentatively scheduled for Thursday. Montana joins North and South Dakota this week in stopping Canadian grain and livestock trucks for inspections. Also Montana Farmers plant a protest at border crossings along the Canadian border today. They say Canadian Imports are bringing down their prices Canadian farmer say they're just meeting the demand partly cloudy skies over most of Minnesota today some scattered showers possible in the southwest highs in the mid-50s and low 60s and some Frost is likely overnight in the arrowhead region and possible in other parts of the state currently 54 degrees in the Twin Cities, Minnesota Public Radio by Garrix 6 minutes now past 11. Good morning. Welcome to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Yankton. Well while much of the nation this morning has been glued to their TVs watching the presents grand jury testimony. There were a good many other people here in Minnesota reflecting on matters a bit closer to home other people other times yesterday Muriel Humphrey Brownlee wife of the late vice-president Minnesota. Senator Hubert Humphrey died at the age of 86th Street in poor health for some time. She died yesterday of heart failure at Abbott Northwestern Hospital in Minneapolis Star Tribune this morning described mural in Humphrey Brown is Minnesota's first lady recognition of the central role or husband played in Minnesota politics in the second half of this Century, but Muriel Humphrey Brown played a central role in Minnesota Life herself quite apart from her husband for years. She really was Minnesota's first lady and in 1978 after Hubert's death. She was a part of the Hubert Humphrey senate seat. She Remains the only woman to represent Minnesota in the US Senate. Following that brief stay in the Senate Muriel Humphrey Brown married her childhood friend Max Brown and retired from public life. But the Humphrey Legacy is still very much alive in Minnesota or Saint Hubert. The third is running for governor this year and the memory of her and her husband and those times lives on this hour at. Midday. We're going to reminisce a little bit look back at those people and those times joining us here in the studio is DJ Larry well-known Minnesota political consultative. Go author of the newsletter politics in Minnesota. DJ was a friend and advisor to the Humphrey family for 30 years and Hubert Humphrey National media director when mr. Humphrey ran for president. Also joining us. This morning is Norman Sherman longtime Humphrey 8, and the editor of the Humphrey biography education of a public man, and we also invite you to join our conversation this morning, especially those of you who actually had the opportunity to meet your Ln Hubert Humphrey. Love to hear your stories. Give us a call. 227-6002 276. Outside the Twin Cities you can reach us toll-free at 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 802-422-8284. We get going here Mike Mulcahy has a remembrance of Muriel Humphrey Mario Buck was born in 1912 in Huron South Dakota. She met Hubert Humphrey in 1934 at his family's drug store in here on the two were married two years later and would eventually have four children in 1945. Humphrey was elected mayor of Minneapolis in 1948. He was elected to the US Senate from there. It was one campaign to another on the national stage in 1965 a year after Hubert. Humphrey was elected vice president Mario became a national spokeswoman for the rights of the mentally retarded in 1968 Hubert came within a half million votes of being elected president, but with Richard Nixon in office, he instead headed back to the Senate. Hubert Humphrey died of cancer on January 13th, 1978 Governor Rudy perpich appointed Merial to serve in the Senate until November special election. Buy many minnesotans in some very special friend and our nation's capital to serve in here with Senate seats today. The governor have its has offered me this opportunity. I have decided to accept As a member of the Senate, I believe that I can help complete some of the very important legislative business. If you ever had hoped to finish did more than just fill her husband seat during her brief tenure in the Senate. She championed social programs in labor issues and push for the federal government to pay for abortions for poor women. She reportedly thought hard about running for the seed in the special election and many dfl politicians urged her to do it. But in April of 1978, she told dfl activist. She was done with politics feel stirred by the purpose and the promise and the challenge of it at this time in my life after 12 campaigns for public office and 33 years of sharing fully with him and his duties as mayor Senator and vice president. I want to return to Minnesota at the end of the interim. In November and resume Life as a private person with ample time for my home family and friends. Republican Dave durenberger went on to win the senate seat that November and Muriel Humphrey returned to Minnesota in 1981. She married Max Brown a childhood friend from here on Muriel Humphrey Brown kept a low profile, but did go to the White House in 1984 when President Ronald Reagan honored the late Hubert Humphrey. Children and wife and Friends plan here. It's funeral. It was not a funeral ceremony that we planned. It was a celebration of his life. And I find that today where this great tribute. This is a continuation of that celebration. That man's life. He was one man. Who changed made a great change in the life of our country last public appearance was just last week when she attended a victory party for her son Hubert Humphrey the third after he won the dfl nomination for governor. Saturday Thank you Mom. A private burial in public memorial service are scheduled for Thursday. I might Mulcahy Minnesota Public Radio. This is midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio when the we're talking to sour about Muriel Humphrey Hubert Humphrey and times at a $0.01 seemed a long time ago DJ Larry but on the other hand seemed like just yesterday. I think if you get old enough everything seems like yesterday. It's a remarkable contrast don't know what politics was and what politics is today. As you mentioned this to break the three major television networks and love the cable TV are running to tape vote for the president United States testimony to the grand jury. I mean that would have been unheard of at any time in the past when the Hubert Muriel Humphrey work at in Washington and prominent American Life lots of a younger people or people who didn't grow up here probably. Don't really have a clue as to who Hubert and Mario were and just where they fit into the big picture. Can you give us some sense of that DJ while they were right out of a picture of Middle America came out of here on South Dakota and you know kind of had a spirit that was forged in the furnace of the depression new difficult time. I'm free himself at gone off to college After High School, but had to give it up because he had to go home and help in the family drug store and later is as an older student and not having married Muriel. They came from Huron South Dakota to Minneapolis to the University of Minnesota and things were still so tight that she would make sandwiches that they would take over on the campus and sell for a dime to just have a couple extra dollars to get by during the week. So they knew tough times they knew adversity, but she was his real partner and is closed, All through life is very best friend. Norman Sherman joins us this morning. Good morning, sir. Appreciate your being with us because it's a Blessing Norman. All of this life is written most of my lines fisherman. Enjoy the Limelight for quite a long while of course. She was mostly out of the public eye, but then she became pretty visible only didn't begin is someone who ran for the spotlight. I think when I first newer in 54 and 55 56, she was anything other than a limelight Seeker. On the other hand when her husband died. I remember one of her assistants calling me and saying what do you think about mrs. Humphrey becoming a senator and I said, I think it's a terrible idea. And she said would you call and tell her that I said absolutely not I'm not crazy. She said would you talk to her if she calls and I said sure and 20 minutes later Muriel called and said I understand you don't think I have to go to the Senate why and I gave her all of my reasons and she listened very carefully, but at the end of it said I think you're wrong and I think that I would enjoy being there and I want to go and she did and I think she enjoyed those two years certainly immensely and her public life. She got accustomed to it. She began as a very reserved understated woman and she grew stronger and Through the years I think did she have much impact on Hubert's policies or himself to tell you about that? So I looked in his autobiography there a couple of things to know that the 1948 when he was about to make his speech on civil rights at the National Convention. He turned to her and she was stole word. She said go ahead and do it. Then this was at a time is DJ points out. They were poor they were new in political life. They had a grand career head of a end of the head of them and it seems that this could jeopardize it but she thought it was right and she pushed him to do it and I think that was important what you did was give him the space to be what he wanted. I don't know. That she was hot on particular public policy early on but in his book, I'm free wrote in 1949 one night. We went to a party at fancy home where I was lying eyes does a bright new liberal Senator. I like the attention the adulation in my pleasure must have been excessively obvious as we drove home here Muriel said Hubert you have to make a choice now puzzled. I asked what do you mean? Well, she said you can turn into a social butterfly at Washington phony or you can skip the sort of the evening and become a good Senator you have the choice and I think that's was her great strength in the early years is that Dan Humphrey said it's at the same time without Muriel. I might have given up as busy as she was with our children in New City. She provided the support and Solace I needed she was never too tired to listen. She was a balance wheel cheering my spirits helping me Resolve not to indulge himself. Diddy and escaped and so I think that you probably have to divide her career into a couple of periods and then certainly in the early. Say up to the 1960. She was a wife mother in a store where to just gave him the freedom to grow and to be what he wanted to be after that. I think she assumed a role that she always might have but didn't approve of an independent voice and a woman with such deep feelings about her own ideas DJ. Did you get the sense that from time to time she would rain Hubert in as well and he get low full of himself as she enjoyed that I used to go out and pick him up at the Waverly home. We'd have some appointments or something. You can frequently during campaign time and she always had a cup of coffee or roll there. Anybody came and I said to Where is he she says that he's been on the phone for the last 20 minutes. I thought about going in there and disconnecting. So she was constantly remind we would have a Sunday afternoon in something rarely rarely. Do we have what we be sitting together in some hotel and with three TVs going on all the football games we could get in the sheets. Of course, we've lost her mind, but you didn't she never missed a stitch you doing or needlepoint there and we were hooting and hollering for the Vikings other games and that she just took and roll her eyes up and asks that whenever we came back down to earth did we wanted her to fix it? So so she was there the constant companion but I think that Norma is touching a very important part you could get Humphrey to talk easily about what it was like those lonely nights that he would go home at the Long day to the Chevy is Chevy Chase home and it was an empty house. Cuz Mario's back here racing the four kids and he says, you know, I never had that any kind of interference that I had to get on the phone and be called back and go to the school because there was a discipline problem or something like that. He maintained at constant touch but you never fail to take note of the fact that you were such an extraordinary gifted mother in the end in raising for whatever turned out to be for outstanding children. We're remembering the Humphreys this our Muriel Humphrey Brown and her late husband Hubert. DJ. Larry Is With Us Norman Sherman is with us. Both of whom worked closely with the Humphreys over the years. And again those of you who had an opportunity to know the Humphreys be interested to hear your story is as well to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand. I'll try the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828. It would be inaccurate. I supposed to say that the Humphreys were solely responsible for the birth of the dfl party here in Minnesota or that they were the only minnesotans who made a splash on the national scene and were several other notable minnesotans, right alongside them including former Governor Orville Freeman and his wife Jane this morning Jane Freeman shared some of those early memories with Minnesota Public Radio Sperry finale. I've been close friends in a science class and had debated together. So in 1941 when organized started to date lots of our dates were over at the Humphrey house babysitting for their baby Nancy and holding hands while they could go to the movies and and Saturday night parties at their house were the women sitting in the living room in the men in the kitchen talking politics to the women's Utah politics to discussion. So or are brought me in and we started to break it up. So the men of the women didn't always sit separately that's like the olden days. My politics or did you did you just delve into lot of just feel real world things? So there's a lot of political talk and lot of sports talk a lot of baby talk except that I wasn't married yet didn't have that difficult year was so great because she was always warm and friendly and caring of looking after everybody and You know, she loves she loves music. She need a pointed beautiful. But you know, she was just a warm and loving person. That's what I particularly remember because I think people nowadays remember only as a public figure. I remember her as a warm loving caring friend and and Homemaker, so she was able to handle that role of raising the kids at home and also being the political candidates wife. She was she was in the early days when the children were small. She was really concentrating on raising the family and when they move to Washington when he was elected Senator, she really had to handle the whole move taking the kids home the train small baby Doug. Let's see what it was really a baby of the year. So so it was it was tough for her, but she really came into her own in in later years was when she had more energy to go campaigning with Humphrey particularly in in his presidential bid 2016 and 68 at the very beginning and then went to the the other way and would quit campaign 7 days a week. What do you think account for the change which was hard in those days. We had none of us had any money at all to do anything which is right for each other. And so she just didn't have the time or the energy and later as the children were gone from home. Then she had much more time and she always cared about the issues, but I just didn't have the How did she adapt to life in Washington? Is very tough for it first because Humphrey was gone almost all the time that he wasn't to visit in the Senate while he was making speeches around the country is space a good deal of extra money making speeches around the country which help to cover a lot of his extra car. So with the children a good day off and so it took a while to kind of be a part of the Senate wives group, but she did eventually warmly received that isn't it wise group. What was she going through 1978 when he died and and then she was appointed to the Senate ever because she did feel very much alone and she came back down to Washington. We were living in New York then but Cubist.. Very strong than either of her her blood pressure was kicking up is anybody's would so we we were down to Washington and visiting with her quite a lot during those years and years. That she was in the Senate, but she I think she really loved it as time went on and that she found it to a very stimulating but her health just really would not allow for re-election campaign and Then she came back out to Minneapolis actually do Waverly and that was the toughest. Paul. Moving everything back to Waverly and trying to cope with life alone. One of the excerpt from that interview some of you will recall that there was some muttering here in Minnesota about Muriel Humphreys remarriage 3 years after he were died that somehow the remarriage violated her husband's memory here again is Jane Freeman live it and enjoy it and I can tell you that the area would never have lived this long had she not married Max Brown. They were wonderful for each other they cared for each other day had fun together. He just Filled her life with love and joy, and and I really can't imagine anybody criticizing that stay forever is is living with the ghost Freeman speaking this morning with Minnesota public radio's Perry fanelli arvonne Fraser joins us know. She course new Umphrey's for what 50 years something like that, right and even longer your Recollections of Muriel Humphrey pretty well square with what we've heard from Jane Freeman know because I was one of the younger women I came in and 48 Humphrey campaign and they were already married and there was some sort of that group and then there was the group About the 10-15 years younger that Fraser and I were part of and so I looked at her as sort of the older woman and she has Jane said was not around a lot that she would come to Jefferson Jackson Day dinners and formal events, but she was taking care of the kids in the house and making ends meet do you think of her contribution to Minnesota as a primarily in the sense of being a private person or a public the public role? She played Humphrey grounded and she kept that family going and she managed is Jane said everything the move and everything else and she she was the one person I think who could tell Humphrey exactly what she thought about him and everything else. She was very quiet and friendly, And really devoted to him, but she was naturally get exasperated once in a while and I remember one story she told at a party where she said it brought him back to Earth. He was going on and on about something or other and she said, oh go talk to the mirror for me at least told me that that this was the person who as I said kept him grounded. People who aren't in politics, I suppose that you know, you see the political figure the family and so on and they they don't seem like real people really well when you see him, they're sort of on display and that's that's different from real life. They are real people certain way and I was fascinated. You said the politics wasn't the real world for all of us it was and it was a time when we saw politics was noble and it was a little different now. We were we were all part of a party and a group that. Well, we call the public service. Different time LOL very different time but she was always the quiet friendly common sense. Warm person helpful to everybody but she went through some very tough times as all politicians wives do thank you are Von Fraser longtime friend of the Humphreys DJ Larry Is With Us Norman Sherman is with us and we're spending this hour or this first hour bar. Midday program reflecting back on the life of Muriel Humphrey brown or late husband Hubert Humphrey before we take a break here DJ Norman we it was a different time. But while we remember back on how much should a Humphreys were. Are you will not idolize that's the wrong word how much how much support they had and how much people love them. They are also subject to considerable criticism where they not live through a lot of that. But I remember when we did the 68 campaign and Norman was vice president, press secretary. There were contingents of investigative reporters out in Wright County in Waverly trying to find out just on Humphrey came about getting that property. They were sure there was something dirty. They didn't understand that there was a lot of Lakeshore in Minnesota. And as a matter of fact, we once had a press conference on I stood on a fire engine at LaGuardia Airport in a hang around. We researched how much he had paid Ray you all to thee will Brothers Dairy for that pasture land. I mean, they just move the cows out in the Humphreys in and one of the reporters said when was the lake built and they were used to Southern Lake for favorite part of dams and they thought it was some real hanky pank and I allowed as it was probably back in the glacial age and they thought I was a little bit of a dimwit, but they were subjected to issue criticism, but I don't know of any real. Professional criticism that were people made particularly of Muriel, I think. They were tough times, but I don't think that they were really hostile times on that at all Norman Sherman long time. I'm free as well as he's the editor of the Humphrey biography education of a public man. DJ Larry is here, author of the newsletter politics in Minnesota longtime friend and advisor to the Humphrey family and Hubert Humphrey's National media director when he ran for president are reminiscing about the Humphreys Muriel Humphrey Brown. If you just tuned in died yesterday and funeral services are no schedule to tentatively scheduled for Thursday private burial and public Memorial. We're going to take a short break here again. We encourage those of you who actually had some dealings with a Humphries to give us a call share your stories 227-6030 area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828. I'm learning Benson on Mondays All Things Considered 50% of African Americans. That's Country die from heart disease or stroke the dramatic change is going to come by taking responsibility for their own story and the day's news on Mondays All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities major funding for Minnesota public radio's documentary fund is provided by Phyllis Taylor in memory of Walter stremmel, there is a frost advisory posted for Northeastern Minnesota this evening of the most part we can look for cloudy to partly cloudy sky this afternoon highs mid-50s to the low 60s then as we say it's going to be fairly chili tonight frost advisory in effect for the Northeast are 60 right now. It's partly cloudy and 54° reminiscing this hour about the Muriel Humphrey Brown and her late husband Hubert. She died. Yes. Damn, just we said the right now tentative plans call for a private burial public Memorial on Thursday. We have some callers on the line with personal memories of the Humphreys joining us today, DJ Larry and Norman Sherman both of whom worked closely with the Humphreys for many many years, and that would like your comments as well to 27 6001. 802-422-8284 England plays young one time. He well, he thought he caught me cheating. He didn't say so, but I wasn't he came back in the room and he said what are you doing? I was turned around looking at the back and I said I'm looking at the paper. He says here it is. Well, there was some up front and some in the back and then I had the nerve was time to tell him it was very hard to take notes from him. And you know, you couldn't just say one two three in ABC and he just smiled and then what was interesting about having dinner in the class is that when when he got to be mayor he actually started doing the things that he said ought to be done. This was some that was interesting to say it was a it was an honor to have been in the class. Thank you. Thank you for calling concept of doing what you say you're going to do then I'll keep my books volumes of anything you breathe promise to see how long it takes you to fulfill it. Average German height, I need to ask you why we were talking before about the head of the public perception of Hubert Humphrey. And while he was largely revered here in Minnesota. I think it's fair to say that the national a lot of people have the impression of Hubert Humphrey as a blowhard and it's a totally of LBJ. How did the mural react to that? Well, I think it was a Bittersweet time. Obviously. She was very fond of both of Johnson's but particularly lady bird that and there are a lot of times when Johnson was not very nice to his vice president. I think she's suffered any wife would exclusion from meetings public humiliation, but it wasn't true Sheena. I don't think he ever saw her role is someone ought to be whining or complaining she would look to what was healing and helpful to Hubert didn't Didn't spend much time worrying about it. I think the whole Vietnam. Was difficult for both Humphries, and I know that he reacted very badly to the I remember one time a reporter jostled mrs. Humphrey at the 68 convention and when there might have been more serious things and Humphries mind, it was very personal and very much too. Don't you dare touch Muriel and so I don't know I did was a Bittersweet time for of them head-to-head. She actually become first lady of the United States. What kind of a first lady do you suppose? She would have been what kind of model think that she might have had some of the Eleanor Roosevelt in her because she was such an articulate Champion, especially of mental health and taking care of the mentally retarded after their granddaughter was born in 1960. I mean, she really was out front on that go ahead and she did a lot of good work even as vice-president on on mental illness and mental disability as she would have been a quiet for she would not have been in the NBA. This is not Nvidia. She would not have been a Hillary Clinton out front being the running a health-care thing. She would have gone her quietly. I think was that she always at whatever stage 4 Life knew exactly who she was what she ought to be doing. She really was very clear-headed in the beginning. She knew there wasn't anything she could do other than to sew and look after the kids and support her husband later. She became involved in issues in knew that she could go forward and be a spokesman and she did a very gracefully and very well she would have been a a mix between someplace between best Truman and Jackie Kennedy talking with feelings about certain issues. But with real Grace in a certain shyness, she was the least self-important person I've ever known in public life. She just did not need the Applause and the constant adulation. She moved with certainty with Assurance in her later years and just was who she was Humphrey had a real understanding how they the reverence for her in the great affection had grown over the years somewhat in the 1970s and a campaign and again in 76 used about tell crowds. We got a deal here if you vote for me Merle is part of the baggage. You don't have to like me, but I come along with her. And she really truly was can you imagine this day and age when they you got soft money negative commercials running in that that one of the great campaign get makes the Humphreys you was a picture of the two of them together, especially in the 76 campaign. And on the back side was Mario Humphries bean soup recipe and we handed out millions of those Mark your recollection place. He was the was dearly dearly beloved and story was circulated that when he was being treated at the National Institutes of Health. That he had gone out there for treatment and I couldn't find him and they had a search of the clinical Center and they found him on a loading dock where you taken a wrong turn and he was talking to the people who were loading and unloading the trucks that came in and out and never had made the point that he was a Senator never had made the point that he needed to be taken care of. Then that was extremely unusual for people who came from the Congress out to the NIH and when Mario came to the Senate she in her own way with a very quiet revolutionary because she sat on the floor. Women just were not in the Senate at that point and she needed and it made a very interesting point that she was there. She was attentive and she wasn't pretending to be one of the the old boys and they was very refreshing and I'm both of them were screaming about respect. You might have a bad National reputation from from his. With Johnson, I think was unfortunate because it ain't when he came back as a senator the positive virtues that he said he stood for mayor of Major Impact people genuinely respect because he was not the the the standard feeling he would get one on a southern Senator was dying and then stick somebody in who did had nothing to offer for a couple of months so they could get an election schedule. If my recollection, thanks Mark if y'all had run on her in her own, right would she have been elected you think I talked to her for three hours in 1978 one night. It was Easter Sunday if I recall right and we went through it all the Sheena. She wouldn't have to really run just become a candidate but it is. Jane Freeman said her health was a little fragile. She'd had major surgery just of the year before even while the late Senator Humphreys cancer before he died for blood pressure was popping a pretty good and she understood that in 1978, which was the year that box with durrenberger Alcoa Republicans took over that this party needed somebody who would be active and she just didn't feel that she could let them down so that if she said yes that she would be a candidate she would do the heavy campaigning that her husband and his people wanted to see or talk to her touch her exchange their warm feelings and their memory just as people are doing here and in truth. She probably physically wasn't up to it and cheap for years has reminded me of something I told That made about the seriousness of this situation. I said well and I buried one Humphrey this year and I don't want to bury another and she said that stayed with him for a long time after I don't think it was particularly happy with me. I said that because it tended to push your decision. And your recollection place? I'm sure DJ recognizes my voice and it was interesting for people of my age and mid thirties early forties because we grew up as Vietnam was ending and we saw how the Humphreys acted how they work with ethical forage how they're always honest in their dealings. And then when I was at campaign stops, It would be interesting to see how Muriel would work through. The crowd should be talking to people quietly, but she wouldn't be talking necessary to the delegates. That should be talking to their kids to see how they were doing and she be making sure the campaign workers were doing okay. She was always a behind-the-scenes person, but she always was so quiet and so gentle with the people was good to grow up watching that. Thanks an. I just realized that was my daughter at Norman Sherman. I'll go back to you for a moment. You think we all would have been elected in her own right had she run? I don't know. I don't know I Really? I had been out of Minnesota though close to it for a number of years and by that point wiser heads and I guess she was one of them had to make the decision. I think DJ want to add it was a moot question cuz she her health and let her run so I I just I don't presume to know. Did she and her husband ever? Really forgive Eugene McCarthy for not endorsing Hubert, the more enthusiastically in 1968 Muriel a morning in 1964. When Johnson and made the decision, she came someone came to get me and said Muriel has to go down to The McCarthys sweet. Then I went down with her to see Abigail and Jean McCarthy and it had to be one of the most difficult moments in her life and it certainly was his point in a political signs Everett spent. I guess the answer honest answer would be no. I think that by the time you were died that he voiced forgiveness, but I think that it was a very bitter bitter. Pill to swallow and that he never did. I am the I've never I don't know that I ever talked to her about it, but I had work for McCarthy. And theoretically I was kind of the liaison between the two camps and did not do my job. Well, but I never heard her voice anyting and it was just not her nature to be vindictive or mean-spirited or kerryon a vendetta or even anger that long. Some of the rest of us feel fairly bitter about it. In general is it is often true that family members friends take the take criticism of a public figure more have much more difficulty with it. Then the public figure seems to have is this it was as true a miracle as well when the Hubert would be roundly criticized for something answer that I'll go ahead and I think she felt hurt by She was not Mercurial. She was not someone to overreact. I think that yes every slight to her husband was by Gaslight to her husband, and she didn't like it. I don't you know, I really don't remember that many moments they were tough times but I never lot of ugly times and I think that early on before I was on the scene when he first came down here after a civil rights speech the southern senators were nasty to him. They really were ugly and said mean things about him within earshot so that he went home really hurt and I think that that was a difficult time for her. But again with her role was not to suffer but to support and I think she did that very well, so I think she was less. Volatile when he was attack obviously don't like it. I mean you don't have to be in public life to resent criticism, which you often feel is warranted criticism of your loved ones. Jim Peterson's on the line from st. Paul with some comments glad you good to talk to you. I would certainly not in the same Circle that you folks were but I have a short too humorous story about Mario, which I would like to share. I think it was 1962. I had one of my antique cars Model A Ford in a parade and then send her Humphrey was riding in my blue Fritz Mondale was to be returned from the parade in Sir. Humphrey said Jim. I want one of these get me one of these and I said, well, you know how to inquire around and bought a week maybe 10 days later. I got a call from Freddy gates for the gate senior. Of course, he said Hubert's mad at you and I said what I do now and he said that you haven't gotten his Model A for him yet while I negotiated the purchase with a friend who had one when he found out it was going to be for Senator Humphrey. I called Mario and said that I had this model A and she seemed a little surprised. She said, oh, yeah, I could super did mention that. I said may I bring it out? She said sure I drove it out to Waverly and she met me outside and she said take me for a ride. We drove about two miles out in the country. She said now get out and let me drive it back. And I said those did you ever drive one of these and she said chip I learned to drive on one of these now get out and let me drive it. So we go back and she did very well but as we came in the driveway, I thought she was going to hit the the post on the left hand side because the brakes aren't very good on those cars. Anyway, she slammed the door and she said well this doesn't and I said, what do you mean and she said if sugar can have this old hunk of junk I get my player piano the next time I was out there she had her player piano wonderful person and the times after that in and we went for rides and either that model A or the other antique cars. He got after that. Thank you, sir. Appreciate the call. Thank you. Let's move on to another caller with Recollections of the Humphreys Eileen, how are you? I grew up in Waverly when Muriel and Hubert live there as a little kid. I remember right them riding around the car around the lake in their cars and she'd always way over there. She's on the pontoon lunar in the grocery store or when you walk by the house. I mean, she's just just a nice person and it was never misses Humphrey. It was always Merry Old and they were just the normal people you did a little kid. I didn't quite get what it meant when he was vice president and everything else, but just nice quiet people never drew a lot of attention to themselves and she's just a nice lady. That's my big my big memory. It's a sad day. Thanks for the call. She had a great sense of a real sense of timing though because she had such a joy at seeing skip that when that primary election last week and it was kind of like it was a master plan and and she was able to be there and she'd been there each one of those nights during so many elections and so many campaigns when the news was both good and bad I mention 1960 before winning. The late Senator ran for re-election was the night that John Kennedy was elected to the presidency, but it was also the night they learned that their new granddaughter with some mentally retarded. So and they named her Vicky Victoria after the victory. They'd had that night in going back to the Senate but she was always that are for free in that sense of the home person the greatest stories. I think come out of their days and South Dakota Humphrey used to tell me that that he talked to his dad. They thought the buck family where Because they actually took vacations work so long, but I don't think we can close this phone without a word of something about Max Brown. He brought her enormous joy in these last twenty years. She had such a wonderful life with him and they were together all the time. And while most of her prominence was the Humphrey family in the late side of town for the fact of the matter is that she was very happy person with two things that watching the success of her son the attorney general and having in her life private life Max Brown. It sounds at Norman Sherman like Muriel Humphrey Brown have the the unusual opportunity to be involved into love stories that out as a very valuable thing when the word came that you was going to get married. I knew people would be critical and I called her and said go for it. I think this is the most glorious idea ever and I really encourage your never having met next brown. But in later years I said here mural spent the early years of her life walking a little bit out of the Limelight a little bit behind and now she has a man who walks behind her and is pleased to share just the edge of the Limelight so well, so I think she had a good life. She was it was a productive life. She cared for her kids in a particular way. She cared for the state of Minnesota she cared for her country and I think she affected all of them in a very positive way to get at least one more a caller on here before we wrap up court. I just wanted to ask. Mr. Leary how he thinks the culture in Minnesota politically has changed since the time of the Humphreys. I remember 19681 set a time for your loss and it broke my heart even though I was only six but it seems to me Minnesota's not the progressive place it once Was I Thinkin off a lot of things have changed in American public life and politics presidential and otherwise, and I think we're going to be searching for the days when they were different Norman Sherman before we go here. Can you give us some sense if Hubert we're around now. How would he want your real remember? Oh, yeah, I guess it's a loving wife, which is the way he liked her to be remembered while he was alive. I think that he would not make the distinction between the public Memorial in the private. Marilla was all one. She was a loving creature. She was a good person and I think you'd be satisfied with that and see what about himself. I think that he what he liked about himself for the things you like about me real they were dedicated to that old Minnesota politics at your previous caller mentioned and doing good works. That's it. I think she'd also take particular Joy at that country was Humphrey before she met him and she going to walk through life alongside of him. But what you're seeing and the children are reflection of her Nancy her family Doug Bob, and of course the extraordinary success and kind of adulation that to her son. The attorney general has gotten not only in Minnesota, but around the around this country. DJ you're still pretty close to what's going on around here course, can we look for another Minnesota first family anytime in the near future. I'll tell you when people start looking always to the next election before the last election, but somebody that people meeting to talk about is is Muriel Humphrey son. Grandson Humphrey. He's a real charmer and people love them and that maybe the next generation of Humphries that will be talking about Norman Sherman any last thoughts before we wrap up. I thought I loved her and I'm sad to see her go and I Thanks. That was the Humphreys with their friends. The Freeman some of the other people created a great political tradition. It may be gone the baby damage, but it is a tradition. That is wonderful. Thanks so much for joining us. Thank you. I guess this hour or Norman Sherman longtime Humphrey 8 and the editor of the Humphrey biography biography rather education of a public man. DJ Larry has been with us a long time friend and advisor to the Humphrey family and Hubert Humphrey's National media director. Muriel Humphrey Brown died yesterday at the age of 86 after fairly long illness and that right now last word. We had received a private burial is planned tentatively planned for Thursday. There is also though going to be a public Memorial and that too is so tentatively plan for Thursday. And of course, we'll keep you posted. We've also received word that apparently the governor will be ordering if he hasn't already ordered Flags flown at half-staff here in the state of Minnesota. If you missed part of this program as a remembrance of Muriel Humphrey Brown will be re broadcasting program at 9 tonight. You're on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Ray Suarez. What if reporters always ask the question on your mind? What if the media always listen to your ideas on NPR's Talk of the Nation we give you the opportunity to make sure that happens. We throw your questions and your comments into the mix everyday on top of the nation from NPR news. Documentation begins at 1 this afternoon and today and as you might expect raise going to zero in on the extraordinary extraordinary broadcast today the release of the Clinton grand jury testimony the broadcast Nationwide by the TV networks, and that will be the subject of the first hour of Talk of the Nation today. We're going to break for a news headlines and then Bill home Minnesota story Storyteller will be on the air. tuning for special gubernatorial debate focusing on issues important to rural, Minnesota Thursday, October 1st at noon live from Brainerd here on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 you're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a partly cloudy Sky now 54 degrees at Kendra W FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul should be partly cloudy all afternoon temperature high right around 60 degrees and other 6 degrees warm Saturday night low 35 to 40 sunny tomorrow the high temperature in the middle 60s.