Nike Max 6 minutes now past 11 And good morning. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I can glad you could join us each week leading up to the September primary. We are focusing on one of the major issues in this year's campaign for governor last week. We heard from each of the candidates on education and this week we're focusing on taxes as you will hear this week. All of the candidates say they will cut your taxes if they're elected in November. But each of the candidates has a little different spin on what taxes should be cut first and just how the state should pay for those tax cuts. What's more of these State Finance commissioner is warning all of the candidates not the promise too much. He says the projected budget surplus which would Finance many of those tax plans may not actually materialized today as part of our coverage of the tax issue. We thought we find out where you stand on this issue should taxes. In fact be cut or should any extra money be used to pay for additional State programs if taxes should be cut Income tax property sales fees of one sort or another and if you favor a tax cut where will the money come from? We'd like to get your thoughts on these issues. Give us a call with your comments will be interesting to see how your ideas square with what each of the candidates is proposing. What city area number is 227-6002 276 thousand. I'll try the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 were talking this hour about taxes specifically would like your thoughts on whether tax you should be cut and if so, which ones how you pay for it to 27 6001 800-242-2828 joining us this hour here in the studio to help us keep our facts straight as one of Minnesota's leading tax experts Minneapolis state representative d-long who's the chair of the Minnesota house tax committee representative long is leaving the Just make sure she is not seeking re-election this year. Thanks for coming in today. Where do we stand right now? As I understand that the last two years we've had a permanent cut in business property taxes and in residential taxes greater proportion of the funding for K-12 education greater and then we have the property tax rebates. The first checks went out to this past spring we'll have another round of those almost a billion dollars in property tax rebates going to homeowners and renters and it is an income tax based rebate, but everyone is eligible now and there was also a provision was there not where additional Surplus money was supposed to be set aside for an income tax cut next year. Money was set aside for tax relief of one sort or another the laws actually silent on what sort of relief that might be. It could be income tax could be sales tax it to be additional property tax relief, but that's contingent on they're actually being some Surplus Where Do We Stand? What does Minnesota stand now in terms of that taxes compared with other states will we are relatively High tax state? We're quite a high service state in terms of the public demand for in the states delivery as well as local governments delivery of services to the taxpayers. And so yes, we are depending on which kind of tax is usually the figures like a couple years behind and so the most recent figures I have in terms of State rankings. It is for 1996 there may have been changes since then Most states have seen surpluses and they've made changes note. Text structure in the last year or two, but one of the things that is cuz of concern to me is that we are now third in from the highest in the end of its individual income tax. If that is something we have to be aware of when we are undertaking Jack's reform of one sort or another that's higher than we oughta be wear number 3 wear number 3, if you look at the corporate income tax where 9th general sales tax for 10th. Again, this is 1996 figures in the excise taxes were 12th. The overall property tax is considerably lower particularly on low valued homes. We rank up near the middle of all states. And as we noted of the tax cut proposals of the candidates are talking about now are predicated on the notion that we have had these huge budget surpluses the last few years and will continue to have those at least The next couple of years how solid are the numbers on how solid are those projections have them virtually any other forecast die after he became the state Economist? I think there is some some potential problem areas if Northwest strikes and that last feeling like the time we're talking about 17,000 Northwest employees were talking about all the spillover to other businesses in Minnesota. That would be affected by such a strike. We're talking about folks who will not be learning salaries and paying taxes on those salaries during that time or perhaps purchasing as much and being sales to sew a protracted strike with Northwest would certainly impact the November forecast if the stock market has a kind of downtown And that summer predicting that could certainly impact the forecast one of the reasons of major reasons why we have had the kind of surpluses we have is first of all because of Full Employment in the state many more people are working and they're paying income taxes. Secondly the the market the stock market people are paying capital gains taxes are realizing the capital gains paying the taxes on the house and just a generally good economy. As long as that maintains, we will have surpluses but I credit to Governor Carlson for being somewhat hesitant and spending the projected money that was going to be there at his other concern was that of the Asian markets and that's certainly could have some impact. We also when we look at the the farm Academy in Minnesota particularly the effect of the week's Gavin Northwestern Minnesota, but there's some other issues of price of corn is is down even though the corn is crap is going to be doing very well could also have an impact on that forecasts. So we Really won't know. I think it's certainly is good to listen to the gubernatorial candidates in terms of what they would propose to do if there is a surplus but that's that's that's an if we don't know really what kind of projections going to be there in November, even if there is a surplus know if you want other tax back here before we get to the collars here, even if there is a surplus now enough to fund tax cuts, if you pass a permanent tax cut eventually presumably these surpluses would disappear then where would the where would the money come from? I suppose you have to cut State spending them to pay for that to make up for the loss of Revenue 80s by the legislature was in special session. I think seven special sessions trying to balance the state's budget. We cut spending all over we cut a fridge Cajun got the money that we sent to local units of government. Across-the-board since that time we have developed a fairly healthy State rainy day fund and I think it is critical that we continue to allocate Surplus resources to such a fund to sort of take the edge off of what could happen. If there were a severe economic downturn of some sort or talking about taxes and all week won't have reports on where each of the candidates specifically stands on tax relief. They're all talking about tax cuts of one sort or another today. We thought it would be interesting to find out the which taxes you'd like to see cut if any and if you have any ideas as to just how these attacks cut should be financed State representable Aunt Dee long has come by today. She's the chair of the Minnesota house tax committee to help us keep our facts straight. Love to hear from you. 227 6000 is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one. 802-422-8282 276 thousand or one 800-242-2828. My question is to go or goes to whether the tax Surplus this year is a systemic phenomenon or whether it's just a One-Shot phenomenon because if it seems as a one-year occurrence due to an extraordinary prosperous economy, then maybe the way the money to get back in. The taxpayers hands is through a rebate. But if we have a stomach phenomenon that looks like could extend over a. Of years then maybe we should Institute at attacks or spending structure change. It seems it's easier to move in nopales the instrument when you're when you're doing rebates than it is to completely change tack tax rates as the economy's prosperi Ebbs and flows. So you dare you Advocate unless there is some it's clear as clear evidence that we are in fact being overtaxed if you'd rather just send back. Read a check when it's clearly got a little extra money it be hard to raise taxes. Once you've lowered them. If in fact, you know, we wanted to get back to the same level of taxing and spending a few days before any of this is is long-term and nature structural in nature of this extra money. That's the states collecting there is some of it is one time and that was true in the last two years of session. We did looked at the money that was a assume that to be recurring and send it back as a rebate. But we also did make some permanent changes of primarily in the areas of property tax with the long-term dollars that are assumed to be there in four future forecast. Again, more of those dollars are presumed to be long-term than one time, which doesn't mean you can perhaps I'll be Able to do some long-term reform state policymakers are trying to balance spending and taxing which comes first. I mean on the one hand you talk about structural over collection if you will, but that's predicated on the notion that you're only spending X numbers of dollars are certainly no shortage of things you could spend money on conversely. You could sharply reduced watch your spending I suppose and then collect far less. I think it's a difficult question and one that's been in the legislature for years and terms of should we set the tax bill first and then the spending or the reverse generally Lee the governor presents us with a biennial budget and then we work off of that and certainly we don't follow that exactly but that said some basic guidelines for us in addition of the legislature for several years has now been operating under a price of government formula where we do watch this again. It says there's a time lag and I have Meaning what exactly that figure is but it's something that certainly politicians don't want to see suddenly leap upwards in terms of the cost of the government to individuals, but I think you know, it's it's this is a little perhaps overdoing it but I think you can separate legislative sometimes into the those that are interested in taxes and generally want to keep them as low as possible and those who are serving on the appropriation side of things. I've spent my time on the tax committee, and generally we don't like spending as much as those who are on the appropriation site because we have to raise it all has to pay for it. I think they're there certainly is room for reform in the system. It's been suggested that perhaps we ought to spend the first year of the biennium instead of passing a two-year budget at that point. Actually analyzing how those dollars are being spent where we The most effective use of those dollars and then not actually do the appropriate until the second year makes a certain amount of sense to me because we tend to put programs in place and there never is Thoroughly Analyze This perhaps I should be so a lot of them maybe overstay their welcome vs. Brian the taxes. Would you like to see a tax cut to take the Surplus and totally pay off all the state? That is What's the total state that is paid off. We could have a little bit more services a little bit of tax cut and get a good solid rainy day fund and that way the long run we have both were Services less taxes, but first pay off the debt completely you're talking about the the borrowing a touchdown for these big capital projects projects. Use it with some of the State Surplus and just keep a constant Surplus to have no debt and that way we can have more more goodies and lower taxes and a good rainy day fun. Okay. Well, thanks for your comment. Would that make sense that we pay cash for a number of the bonding needs we did that and we also set aside some possible Dallas from the November forecast for paying cash. We certainly aren't paying for the entire cost of the bond and Bill that way you can argue that that's certainly more prudent on the other hand if my kids are going to be using a highway or a public building or something 40 years from now or my grandchildren, perhaps the payment for that. I'll be stretched out over time so that it's sort of a user-pays scenario Camille. Go ahead. My question is related to Brian some in regards to paying off the debt. How can you even call it a surplus if you have a substantial debt hanging over you so you don't think we the state in fact has a surplus and and would rather not hear the candidates talk about tax cuts until this Capital bonding procedure is paid for right? Okay. Well, thanks for call. Again, it's their the bonding death. But the question is whether to use all of the all of the money now to to pay it down right now for the state also much as I think one reason that the governor proposed the size of a bodybuilder. He did all the governor candidates are talking about a tax cut and the shower we would be interested in your thoughts on whether or not the taxes should be cut if so, what would you like to see cut the income tax of sales tax property tax? There was a Star Tribune Minnesota poll published over the weekend indicating that most of the people surveyed or at least a healthy plurality 42% liked to seen income tax cut 34% of those surveyed favorite up property tax cut 18% of sales tax cut interested in your thoughts on this. And also if you would like to see a tax cut just where should that be? Come from exclusively from the Surplus while it exists if it exists or some long-term spending cuts, what you thought to 276 thousand in the Twin City area to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or 1 800-242-2828. Okay? Two comments in a question that the any states are placed should be immediately given back to the people. That's our money. We paid it in should be automatically given back right away. And there should be a state Constitutional Amendment that the money should be your income taxes should be cut immediately upon any time there is a budget surplus at all. And then I was just curious if the The person that you have in your studio is from the is Philly with Democratic or Republican party buses are they is a gaming the lottery proceeds it all contributing to the expression surpluses and I can hang up and listen if you want. All right, let's take him in reverse order is not of the lottery money included in the in the projected surpluses and it would be but there hasn't been any increase in projected earnings from that are coming into any significant amount. What about is there been any talk at the legislature about some kind of automatic give back program? I know Jesse Ventura, for example, the Reform Party candidates talked about having some kind of a law where once tax collections exceed a certain percentage of the state budget. The money automatically get sent back. And to make any sense. If you send it back to those who paid it in and that's what we here then for example, those that have realized capital gains would get a substantial amount of the Surplus back to the responsible for those that benefited from the sale of West publishing who paid a significant amount and additional taxes to the state would be getting more dollars back and I've heard that use but yet nobody's giving me a formula for how to do it. Even though certain segments of the population may be most responsible for a surplus. Do you spread it out across the board everybody? I think that's certainly an automatic. Rebate or reduction or something can be rather dangerous given the fact that we're dealing when we talked about surpluses not with money sitting in the bank, but with a projected figure that will be there at the end of a biennium and that historically his varied by on the average 8% up or down for the years. What about though a law that you know essentially sent that check back at the end of the at the end of the by any and once you were actually talking about real money as opposed to projected money get to every every other June 30th taxpayers get a nice big check. How do you do this? Do you do it as a percentage of the income tax that they paid you do it as a percentage of the property tax. Do you do it to those again? Who would be most likely to have paid it in and other words if it were a big increase that over projections in the sales tax, do you ask people about their spending patterns? And those that spent the most will get the most back? Is it say an idea that sounds rather attractive in the abstract? But I have never seen anyone give us a really well fought through rational way to do it. I would think public radio announcers would be high on the list of first first to get the rebate. They absolutely Donald go ahead place. I have a question. I kind of observed over the years I've lived here for over seventy years, but the car tax in Minnesota first, of course, we have a six and a half percent purchase and then after that the annual car tax that is collected it. It seems to be a great deal more than any of those surrounding states. Maybe maybe one of the highest in the nation. And and you'd like to see that perhaps rolled back early collected is dedicated to Highway building a constitutionally can't be used for any other purpose. I think our license plate fees are out of line and was an author of legislation to try to reduce that in recent years didn't really go anywhere because it leaves a hole in that Highway trust fund and that would have to be either made up in some other way or we have to spend less on Highway construction and particularly in rural Minnesota. That's not a very popular idea. Ernie your thoughts on the tax system tax cuts in the rest areas. I'm interested in I believe in the property tax and also the sales tax because can be considered property sex. I believe all education expenses removed from property but there be construction which I think we have a dryer need in some parts like vertically Ramsey County. There's great need for schools. Also in the area of a sales tax we could do a cut wear during the tourist season weekly ad sales tax and during the Lester's tour season cuz we have tours coming here all year round. We've cut back the text for example of set the malls America. They actually has a large purchases people who cover the sales tax in the purchase, you know, it's whatever to me we must do something to Quebec the taxes people pay during the winter and that would be one way of cutting back that sales tax and it only find it during High School season, but the major issue I have is education taxes. It should not be to property like a lot of candidates have in fact that candidates for Governor have talked about increasing the amount that the state would pay for Education the premise being then that you would be able to reduced property-tax. What's our history in Minnesota on that when when the state has picked up more of the costs that are normally attributed the property taxes property taxes stay down or they just go back up. Anyway, they tend to come back up anyway, but the whole history of Taxation in this state and factor predating with Minnesota became a state relates to the cost of Education the first territorial legislature passed a property tax to pay for the general education. When the income tax was adopted in the 1930s, it was adopted to take the pressure off the property tax to pay for Education. The sales tax was adopted in the 1960s take the pressure off the property tax to pay for the class of Education the so-called Minnesota Miracle not just with funding but the state share of it. We've had our ups and downs. I most recently the states in my opinion until very recently was not paying an adequate share of those cost we have increase that by about 10% from about 60% till almost 70% over the last 2 years. What's the magic amount? Is it a hundred percent is Ernie suggest there is some fear that if that were the case there wouldn't be any local control of the schools are the state paying for it all would perhaps feel that they ought to be running those schools in terms of school construction. Should the state be paying for Constructing swimming pools in districts that want to have them athletic fields and so forth perhaps not but my personal preference would be for us to to have the state pay for seventy-five 80% perhaps of the basic plus construction on the average again that that's the average Statewide. It doesn't mean that every District gets that amount but certainly that has been one of the major factors driving the property taxes upward the cost the local education class in the City of Minneapolis and do an individual taxpayers tax bills about 50% for the school class the state I think does have a constitutional and moral obligation to make sure that those costs are taken care of and perhaps we had to look for other mechanisms of funding than just the property tax in terms of the sales tax if you were to expand it or perhaps is there any Hit those Taurus up a little harder. Would you be able to raise a lot of extra money that way? I don't know that you would certainly if you took it off and there are states that have had to tack holidays sales tax holidays with a surplus declared that for a period of a month. For example, they won't be a sales tax. We have a fairly High rate of six and a half percent rate switch with local options can be higher than that in some localities. But we also have a fairly narrow base. We are one of the few states that have a sales tax that does not tax clothing and my personal opinion in this is rather controversial is that we would be better off tax and clothing making sure that those at the lower end of the income stream would not be hit by this and there are ways to do that making sure that those that were on public assistance would not be affected by this and then lowering the overall rate. We would have a more Progressive sales tax and we now do Politicians generally get a lot of complaints about the sales tax. I would think for example, if you if you nick people another half cent for example or half of percent Who would know, you know, interesting enough that they really don't evidently Studies have shown when local units of government adopt a sales tax that if it's under $0.01 there are virtually no complaints about Bruce Lee if you were to cut the sales tax by a half a penny or something would you get much political bang-for-the-buck there? I don't think that there would be the political benefit for it. But again extension of the sales tax of clothing is a highly controversial political issue. I look at those coming to the Mall of America to shop and think about how much we would raise of clothing were taxed in that instance. And again, I think you can construct a sales tax on clothing that is Progressive that does not hurt those at the lower. When do the income stream we're talking this hour about taxes state taxes? All of the candidates for Governor are talking about reducing taxes in one way or another and during the week. We're going to have special reports on each of the candidates and their specific plans. But today we were interested in finding out what your preference is and thoughts are what taxes you'd like to see, if any and just how you might propose paying for those tax cuts Delong who is the state representative for Minneapolis chair of the Minnesota house tax committee has come by today to help steer the conversation here. So we don't get too far off track in terms of our fax. Love to hear from you 2276 thousand or one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 and I will get some more colors in just a second. I'm learning Benson on Mondays All Things Considered will meet the gorilla gardeners people who plant Gardens on public property by step. But protecting their Creations isn't always so easy. I actually saw the lady come by and snap them off and stuff them in her bag that story and all the day's news Monday on all things considered weekdays at 3, Minnesota Public Radio piano, W FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities. Major funding for Minnesota public radio's documentary fund is provided by Phyllis Taylor in memory of Walter stremmel. Well gardeners and everybody else who have been waiting patiently for some rain have their dreams come true today. It's been raining a lot and will probably continue raining all day long across the state of Minnesota showers may be a thunderstorm in southern Minnesota for that matter eyes today up or 60s to the upper 70s and more rain is likely tonight at least in southern Minnesota Twin City forecast rain through the afternoon, maybe a thunderstorm with a high approaching 70 degrees and there's a 50-50 chance for some more rain tonight and probably tomorrow as well right now in the Twin Cities. We have a cloudy sky and 65° lots of callers on the line with the thoughts on what the should be done about the state tax system. All the candidates for Governor are talking about cutting taxes in one form or another and we thought today would be interesting to get your thoughts on which tax is you'd like See reduced if any and just how you might their pay for those spending cuts, or just going to get back part of the Surplus or Hollywood deal with that 2 to 7 6001 802-422-8282 head place. Graydon hello there. I think we should have a cut and property tax to finance schools. It isn't necessarily Equitable in sure isn't fair and can be kind of painful and you pay it once or twice a year. I think sales tax is what if it's going to ever going to eat any extra money to pick up for probably. I can probably tell if it should be a sales tax in the more people make the more you spend that seems fair to me and it feels taxes real quickly painless as it just someone just mentioned about the clothing tax. It doesn't sound bad to me. I need more money for another recorders percent on on something like boats or anyting extended as a general is PAX seems to me before you run. Let me ask you a question. I put the wrong kind of long a couple of minutes ago. If the state were to pick up significantly more the cost of education and then show your property taxes go down some other tax would probably go up. Took the paper that is used as you know, are you confident that your property taxes would stay down there going up now as they are. I don't know why these easy make off again. I wish they wouldn't but they seem always to but if it wasn't I think the schools weren't in it. I think that might not go up like it's been going up and I think I think school should all be Equitable should a person in a kid in the world Minnesota have a less and less of an education somebody in Downtown Minneapolis. And if it was all funded invited by the state sales tax, I think they could all have a good education no matter where you live. I think if a kid that people get vouchers, they just going to spend the money if that's if they are able to do it. How are they supposed to know where they're going to send this information going to get out the school is better. That's cool. I'm going to send my skid a hundred miles away. Call the Hair James. So your turn. Yes, go ahead. I guess I'm back to automobiles. I moved here a year-and-a-half ago just bought a new car in Illinois need a big tax there. And then I had to transfer fee. That was a huge butt going on from there. Then I bought the least expensive but efficient and dependable car. I could also knew and I was hit with a huge tax for that is opposed to if I have mold eggbeater of a car something an old car it would be almost nothing like 60 bucks or something like that. So I think that it's not promoting a healthy cars for the healthier environment is not promoting people to you. No have safer cars with the airbags with this and that they were made after a certain date and what not. I guess that's the main thing. I do see a lot of like Dakota license plates. And I believe there's a lot of people getting plates out of state but living in state because it's cheaper. I know that some of that goes on the the license tab is based on the presumed value of the automobile and so newer and more expensive cars are taxed at considerably and yes, we are way out of line with surrounding states most of the offenders if they are they at who have an out-of-state plate generally are those that have a second car licensed in a state where they may have a lake cabin in Wisconsin. For example, is there enough money sloshing around in the state budget there where you could reduce that autotaxin and still not losing what you said earlier that that money is used to pay for road construction here enough. I extra money to make up the difference. I will if we waited to dedicate some of the Surplus specifically 2 Highway building. Yes. I do think that would be probably as controversial as as keeping the tax where it is on the tab, please but again, I would like to see his lure those fees because I think there is an incentive for people to to scoff at the lawn at and license a vehicle in another state Marcus your comment Place. Good morning. Good morning. Good morning representative moved here. I want you to comment that this state is the highest taxed State. I came from had a much lower state income tax. It was 3% However was off the top with no deductions. Not even your retirement. That was also time this city. I lived in had a city wage tax of 4.5% off the top no deductions. This comes off your gross pay again. Not even your retirement was exempt from that any money funneled into 401k or retirement so I can hear it is another the highest taxed State other states have state taxes, but then all the local governments most of local counties have their own income taxes, and that that's somebody not together and get pretty high situation here is not as bad as the highway finds. I bought a new car here pay to tag. You have no toll road. You have very good road maintenance highway system much better than I'm used to specially getting out into the rule areas. It's so easy to get access to the beautiful rule areas of this state. I feel so far. I'm very pleased with the job that state government has been doing. It's much better than a lot of other states. Maybe it's not the best but nothing is the best thing to say to the business you pay your fee to live here business can make money and can Returns the money to its investors or stockholders can invest in infrastructure. So you have to really You're not going to change and look at other states and how their total tax structure is before you say make a comment that we're so high. So you're not all that interested in in in proposals from the governor of candidates for Governor that they're going to cut taxes because at this point in your mind, anyway, we're getting a pretty good bang for our buck. It is very hard. I don't like projections. It's very hard to make really good accurate projections and gather that much they didn't say we're going to give this much back. You just don't know what comes down the road weather-wise whatever wise and me. We've had a break on me why there's nothing wrong with giving money back. If you really take me to a you know, you don't have to spend it all. However, just got to think that it's not as bad as it seems our other places that are worse than those particular that have moved here from the states that are higher text anyone who has lived in Britain as my husband and I wants did will see that compared to some other countries certainly are tax old is is much lighter, but no normally I don't hear that the people are pleased with the level of taxes so that they pay that actually maybe a fairly prevalent feeling but those people don't tend to call you and tell you that we were talking before about property taxes. One of those things have come up in terms of the property tax couple of account has been talking about putting some kind of a cap on a property assessments so that even if as it stands now my way I understand it even if your your property tax rate is reduced. In one way or another the fact of the matter is the assessor. I'll come along and say well actually your house is worth another 20 grand. So you'll end up paying a lot more than you would have before is there I would with a cap work in any way like that. We have a type of cap right now on residential property limited market value where the valuation can only go up to the greater of 10% or 1 or 25% of the distance between the old valuation in the new valuation. Certainly there have been a number of proposals to Camp increases at a lower level than that. It's attractive on the other hand. There could be all sorts of effects that people don't really realize and doing that are the Minnesota house passed a proposal to cap increases at believe it was 5% in the last session that did not survive in the conference committee the problem there. Are some cities and I specifically look at Minneapolis. Although there are other areas that would have been just as affected was that this was all properties commercial as well as residential commercial property in Downtown Minneapolis took a nosedive several years ago was no Rebellion. So for those values are coming back up the residential homeowners have the advantage of those values coming back up to protect them against tax increases. If you were to Camp everybody the residential property owners in Minneapolis wouldn't paying more than they would under a scenario where the actual valuations would be applied. So you have to be careful in that sort of thing. Certainly the most extreme example of that is that is California with Proposition 13. I have a friend who is owned a rather expensive piece of property will now expensive in Mill Valley, California didn't start out expensive when she bought it. She pays a extremely low. Rate of taxes on a very valuable piece of property and yet the person who lives next door who bought their house 2 years ago has a cheaper piece of property and pays substantially more taxes. You have some inequities in the system like that Kathleen your comments on taxes. I'm he doesn't really understand. I've talked to people at Maca in a sales tax is extremely regressive. It hurts the poorest the most I don't think we should have a sales tax on everything. I think it's cooling food and clothing is right. And then I also have another comment to also in line with what I've heard from Appleby do not really have a very progressive income tax in the state the percentage rates the people pay extremely low. I think she said from 3% to 6% Where is it used to be much higher at the higher end of income? Dating him for those figures wrong, but I just think that the people poop earn so much more income at a higher percentage. We could have a much more Progressive rate of taxes on those with higher incomes. So do you get too often times when that suggested the argument as well? You're just going to penalize people for being successful you're going to drive the the other job creators out of the state and then the people that you really depend on to improve the economy. Is there any evidence of that actually occurs or could you could you charge people who make more money a higher rate of tax not really see much difference. I think you probably could but you really wouldn't know until you tell your dad that I do want to point out. Minnesota is has one of the most progressive income tax. In the country Most states have a flat tax. We do have a graduated income tax and there is some progressivity built into that system know if you cut the lowest rate has been Senator Doug Johnson is talked about that at the lowest rate and everybody get a tax cut but it would certainly help the low income people more than anybody else or income tax. That would certainly be the way to do it at your next. Good morning. I'm calling my thought is not in support of the any tax cuts. But rather to use the money to expand our quality of life here in Minnesota in the areas of Education environmental cleanup summer jobs for youth educating the unemployed the Arts. I think for politicians. It's a very easy position to take To suggest a tax cut a very comfortable position and I was quite disappointed to not see anyone taking a leadership position for all of us to pay taxes. No one likes that I don't like it either but to take the extra money that we've already put in as a group and for the state down to not use that judiciously to benefit our our state in quality of life. As I say, I think we need some leadership coming from people and And I guess I'll hang up and listen for your run. That is well you Kate and all of your fellow citizens can spend your own money better than the state can how would you respond to that? Well as a state we the state collects from all of us and as a group we can be much more powerful to Institute some kind of change or to support a friend since the Arts. I do I give donations to different social or environmental or whatever groups but as an individual, I'm very small in my mouth and money is very small. So the kind of change that can be made it is insignificant and I also think that the state takes on for us some very hard if she was like educating the unemployed Some things like that that as an individual we cannot too and yet we are responsible for our brothers and sisters and I like living here in Minnesota. I do think we have a good quality of life here compared to many of the other parts of the United States and part of the reason we have that is because of the way and the decisions that we make an otter sound like Was there any thought given to actually using all the Surplus for all of these programs that presumably worthy programs? Everybody's got one or two things that they really like to see some more State money spent on was thought to using at least a larger part of it and some of that was actually compilation the legislature and then vetoed by Governor Carlson, but there are some crying needs out there which we should be investing in not just because it's the right thing to do. But because in the long-term the state's economy will be paying dividends to all the citizens if we do so there's a shortage of well-trained workers in the state right now. We need to address that problem. There's a shortage of affordable housing for workers. For example businesses want to expand particularly non-metro Minnesota, and they don't have a place for people to live. We are seeing the results of a lack of investment in early childhood. Grams, in terms of I believe of the costs of the criminal justice system that we're paying the price later and we're paying a larger price we have schools with crumbling infrastructure is all around the state. The Citizens League has pointed out that we need to do something about the Telecommunications infrastructure in the state. There are a lot of needs out there and rather than looking at this as just frittering away dollars. I think we need to address this as investing in the state's future. It will later paid dividends to all the taxpayers in the state we have time for one more call. I think Wall-E come in here on the tax issue. First of all, I would save work for the state for over 20 years and it was feast or famine cuz I was a few years in between but let's save it invested for the next episode. As far as property taxes go in an Ideal World, I would actually eliminate property taxes in my mind. They eliminate private ownership of property. It works now. If you cannot pay the rent otherwise known as property tax you are elected and I would like to see if not eliminate at least some sort of a coupling made the income to protect people. I share call. We're about a time he represented long but quick comment any chance at the property tax will be scrapped by everybody complains about it. One of the candidates is actually talking about doing that. I think that it would have to be done very gradually and we are certainly attempting to to work toward that we have in the legislature the last couple of years, but we need to take a look at whether we have a tax system that's going to take us into the next Century. The property tax was based on the premise that property equal wealth and you were tax and wealth when you acted when you tax property that isn't necessarily true anymore. Bill Gates didn't have to own any property to be the world's richest individual. He did it through working with ideas with con. Steps with intangibles if you will we need to take a look at our entire tax system and see whether it is of the sort of system. It will take us well into the next Century. I don't believe it is I think we need to start making some major changes are coming in today. Of course will that was state representative day long from Minneapolis, who is the chair of Minnesota house tax committee? And of course we will be reporting all week long. I just wear the candidates for Governor stand on the issue of taxes all of them talking in one way or another about cutting taxes question is just too which ones and how long play I will have full reports throughout the week. Meanwhile midday continues here with Writer's Almanac.