That's news from Minnesota Public Radio on Tim pugmire. Jim 6 minutes. Now past 11. Today's programming is made possible in part by The Advocates of Minnesota Public Radio contributors include ADC Telecommunications. And good morning. Welcome to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I can glad you could join us today. Usually when we talk about world powers. We are referring to nation-states like the US China Germany Japan, but as we come to the end of the twentieth century more and more world powers aren't Nations at all their businesses that operate across National borders. In fact, it's reported that more than half of the world's largest and that he's already are corporations rather than governments Well turns out that Minnesota has become something of an international leader and trying to shape the way those big corporations use all that power Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility has developed a series of principles for business principles that have been adopted by the swiss-based Cole Roundtable a group of top-level Business Leaders for the US Europe and Japan principles are concerned with business ethics and values things like sharing the benefits of economic growth with all stakeholders. Not just corporate shareholders and Preserve. The environment Robert McGregor. The president of Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility is just back from the latest meeting of the coal round table, and he's been good enough to join us this hour to talk about the role of business ethics in this new global economy, and we invite you to join our conversation. Give us a call or Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at 1 800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 or guess this hour Robert McGregor Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility. Appreciate it. Mr. McGregor, why should really corporations at any level? Where a much more about anything other than just making money the bottom line. Well, they better worry about making money in the bottom line is I can't do the other things. So that is a major responsibility that companies have but we are living in a time when everything seems to be linked to one this world is has shrunk and so everything is interrelated today and we've long had a tradition in in Minnesota that business behaviors are related to the bottom line. For example, when I work till two years ago for Dayton Hudson, they used to explain that. The reason were involved in the community is it we like to hear cash registers ring and cash registers ring more often and healthy communities where we have good schools where we have a decent quality of life. And this philosophy is being understood all over the world. We're missing markets. For example in parts of Africa and Asia and Russia, where were companies do not practice good corporate responsibility where there's corruption where there are severe environmental problems. And this has long been a tradition that has been understood and practiced in Minnesota. So you can actually make money by being a good citizen why we think so. There's some cases where you can't you can't say it is absolutely but generally that is true and going back to the Youth Foundation that companies do better in in in Healthy Communities. So we've long supported that principle. How did Minnesota become a leader in this world wide Africa, you wouldn't think automatically that we'd be first in line here, Minnesota has Long been a leader. We're known worldwide for the companies that have long practice good corporate responsibility. If I go to Japan and I just met with some members of the icky dandron, which is the largest 1000 largest companies, they know Minnesota and they've copied and practice some of the things are put into practice some of the things that we're doing here. And I remember the the editor former editor of Fortune Magazine. He said wow, when you talk about corporate responsibility, the really the center of that is that is the Twin Cities Minnesota and it's due to the leadership that we've had here and the global companies that that we have here. The end and we put together a set of business principles are Center did call the Minnesota principles Corden ethical basis towards for Global business and through invitation that we received an international group called call to call Round Table. I have the opportunity to bring these principles and present them to an International Group because the time now we believe is for companies all over the world that are competing with one another to follow one standard of ethical business behavior, and I received an invitation from Mike Olson who is the coordinator of the coal Roundtable former Dorsey lawyer Hira and who's doing wonderful things for the cool round table and we presented the Minnesota principles and they were adopted by the vehicle Round Table along with a concept presented by the chairman of Canon in D. And call kyosei living and working together for the common good and then we were a STAR Center was asked to head the effort into into write the principles into a world standard you they said we can't call the world standard the Minnesota principles. So we brought them the Japanese and the Europeans back to the United States and and it's largely a product of the Minnesota principles based on tradition Civ long been practiced in Minnesota the The Honorable respectful way and responsible way that companies I've been practicing business and we put it put it together and something that is now called the coal Roundtable principles for business and it was originally called a naive effort to think that the companies all over the world would follow one set of business principles, but in a very short. Of time and in the in about 4 years, these are now the most widely at utilize principles around World is about 14 different languages and used in business schools around the world used in school systems in Latin America, and it just amazing how this is caught on around the world and the coal round table now is doing other things but they're they're utilizing and promoting them the principles for for business to get the sensor though that you you are kind of preaching to the choir here in a way that the people who have signed on and and are spreading the gospel are already inclined to to move in that direction the ethical approach anyway, and that the real tougher nuts to crack or still out there to be Delta absolutely there many challenges but one of the things that we found this more interest in the developing countries where they have the most serious problems, it's kind of an old Hummer here in in the United States in some place. Because we've long had codes of conduct and so on but I was speaking in Russia in Washington scuse me in Washington not too long ago in the Russian ambassador to the United States came to me and he said I need those principles give me copies of all of your principles for business and I want to take him to Russia because we are losing business. We're losing investors because of the the the way the free enterprise or market system is being corrupted in in Russia in in in South China Inn in Hong Kong. They use the theme the Competitive Edge they want to bring their companies up to World standard and competing globally today. Your reputation is very very important. And so companies are putting together codes of conduct their Distributing our principles of for business widely in Asia translated in And in Chinese, they're printed in Hong Kong. They acknowledge our Center in the coal round table and they're sending me another two hundred copies this week to distribute two companies that do business in China where they speak Chinese and the same thing is happening in the Middle East are Arabic Edition is being printed in Beirut and distributed widely. Is there in Arabic and because companies realize that the if you're going to compete globally you have to your reputation is important and they're beginning to see the self-interest when we are traveling in South China, for example, the governor of Guan dong. He asked us for helping to clean up the environment because it is the pollution that is impeding development in in in China and our principles by the way Cover the Waterfront. It will use the stakeholder concept our responsibility. All of our stakeholders the way we treat our employees or customers are suppliers our communities as well as our shareholders. I guess this hour is Robert McGregor. The president the Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility of the center is a developed a set of principles for business ethical standards for businesses all around the world, and I miss MacGregor is just back from the land latest meeting of the coal Roundtable the group of International Business Leaders. He's been good enough to join us today to talk about those principles and the role of business ethics as we come to the end of this twentieth-century, give us a call. If you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand is our Twin City area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free, and that number is 1 800 to +422-828-227-6802 for 22828. Which college from Minneapolis Gary go ahead push having manufacturing plants in Mexico under the new NAFTA agreement how they've applied those ethical principles. That's it. That's a good question companies in Minneapolis. For example that are headquartered here. Whether it's a Honeywell 3M Cargill ATC. They try their they're very best HB Fuller to apply the same standards in Mexico or wherever they have plans. For example, one of our companies that I just mentioned their chairman went down to inspect to personally the mcilyar of the door of the maquiladora plant in Mexico to see that if they were following the standards outlined in in in our principles uplifting working standards having safe and healthy working in environments improving the living conditions. We don't live in a Utopia. We have a long way to go and soul that living conditions and wages certainly are different in Mexico. But our our goal is to improve working conditions in improve the the health and safety. Of the workers and we are making some progress. I've been down to Mexico. I've seen some awful things and I've seen some good things. I've visited some maquiladora plants and and I think we can be proud of what Minnesota companies are at least trying to do as Honeywell and needs before and others try to do their very best in the follow the standards that we have here in Minnesota and terms of the treatment of workers in the environmental standards. What's your sensor? What can and what should governments do to try to ensure that businesses operate ethically in an environment like that in this case, Mexico. Well, we've we've decided that business alone can't do this. So we have to partner with with government. And so we're working together with governments. And by the way, we've had a history of doing this and then Minneapolis and st. Paul and our state and so that through Partnerships we can improve the quality of life of a people. It takes a lot of work hard work to do this, but we're trying to find ways of doing this. We recently had the Secretary General of the United Nations Kofi Annan speak to Business Leaders here in in Minnesota trying to find ways to partner with business in addressing some of the major issues facing all of us around the world related to the Social and physical environment Ruston and the corruption and and Donald serious unemployment. I want other concerns we have is this growing gap between the Richmond in the poorest we don't believe it's sustainable and you can't sell many widgets and services had two countries where they don't have income and you can't do business where their social unrest so their self interest in this for companies, but we say that we do this first of all because it's the right thing to do and then secondly, we we build the business case the self-interest case for the kind of behaviors were recommending what can be done to spread the wealth of the global economy. It seems like a fairly intractable problem and it would seem like it certainly in business is interest allocate plans. For example in areas where workers are paid little or nothing as opposed to building a plant here where you have to pay people a lot of money to do essentially the same work. Well, for example, I've been involved in a project in in Egypt to end. If we is as companies to invest in these in these foreign countries and then and Bill plants there and put the the local people to work and try to improve their their their wages in their living standards. That's a real contribution to these communities. And that's one thing that business does it creates. Well that creates it creates jobs and we want to root out the Sweatshop kind of conditions child labor that they were children are being abused and women are being abused and that's that's not in anybody's a self-interest and that gives corporations a bad image as well. How do you how do you deal with a government official who would say look this is our country and this is our culture. These are our values and you know, we will do with what we need to do all we should we try to respect other cultures because It's important but on the other hand, we think there are some common values that can be followed across the world and our principles were put together by people from Asia or Europe in the United States. These are principles that can be practiced across cultures and we can make the business case to government in Africa or Asia that this this make sense. What's happening in Asia today? The economic meltdown a lot of that is due to what it's due to corruption cronyism a lack of transparency and it's the same thing happening in in Russia today. That's why the Russian Ambassador was so interested in in the Indies in these principles. Robert McGregor is our guest this our he is the president the Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility. Minnesota has become a leader in developing a series of Standards business values ethics for for business suit Business all around the world and the center of course has been at the at the very center of developing those standards be good enough to come by today to talk about those principles. You'd like to join our conversation. Give us a call from City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand. Side the Twin Cities. You can reach us toll-free at one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828. One of the things I would think that would be difficult for businesses not only else run the world, but even here in Minnesota with the with the intense pressure on business Executives to to return a good investment to shareholders short term investment. I would think it'd be very difficult for for CEOs to focus much at all on longer-term issues like values in the in the environment the rest. You raise a very good point as we say much much of the behavior in business today is driven by by Wall Street, but many Executives realize that we have to operate our companies for long-term profits. We we we are very short-sighted. If we don't do this one of our leaders, in fact, the current chairman of the round table is when wall and who is chairman emeritus of the find animatronics company located here in and he understands this and metronics is going to be around a long time. And and so they want to prove to produce a quality product that will endure over a long time and And in companies whether it's Dayton Hudson Honeywell 3M Cargill HB floor to the other phone find companies that we have here. They understand this now that doesn't mean that they're not affected by the philosophy on Wall Street Wall Street for short-term profits, but they know that this is important in one of the things I like to emphasize is that many of these Executives or most of these Executives have children and grandchildren and and they're concerned about what kind of world are we going to leave our children and our grandchildren that working with the chairman of Cannon? Mr. Kaku he races that issue all the time. What kind of world are we leaving the Next Generation? And and so he wanted to he runs his company practicing kyosei living and working together for the common good and sharing profit prosperity and for years ahead of philosophy to invest in other, countries and create jobs decent jobs, in other countries to uplift World standards and that's good for Canon and it's good for all these companies to try and do this and one of the things we're trying to do and when Wallin and Michelson and others at the Kohl Roundtable are encouraging and then is that is the trying to enroll principal Business Leaders throughout the world who understand this and and will provide some leadership. One of the reasons Minnesota has been strong and why we're known around the world for good behavior is responsible behaviors is because the kind of leadership that we that we have here. And that's key all over the world principle of business leadership is is is is essential and it's the right thing and we can build the business case for Bruce your question, please touch down the main Crux of my question and that is the fact that there is there is such a drive for growth growth growth. I'm an employee of a large company in town and there's a very very heavy heavy initiative to grow grow grow grow and the shareholders. Do you know they are really responsible for pushing this kind of thing and what we see from Executives in in the larger companies is you know that they seem to clamor for PR issues things like charitable things things like that. And any ethics thing I think is it is part of that where we're trying to present a very Face and I think was a promise that comes along with that with the unending recurrence of this kind of thing is that people kind of get numb to this thing and then you you end up with going on. Well, here's that PR thing again. Oh, geez. They're just trying to please the shareholders and they're just trying to look good. And sometimes you wonder where is this a really good thing to be done or is it the executive just trying desperately put on a good face? Well, I think this gentleman made some good points that much of our conduct is market-driven in some companies when they give away money. They they want recognition for and I think they should get some recognition Ford. But they're more of a fundamental principles that we have to get across and it's it's always a challenge that we we we talked about the guru of the intellectual founder of capitalism Adam Smith, and we often refer to his book The Wealth of Nations, but he wrote another even more important book before that the theory of moral sentiments and he he underscored that the for the capitalistic market system to work properly. It's based on a moral foundation and that giving back to a based on the principles of giving back to society and the kind of leadership. For example, we've had here Dayton Hudson was founded by George Draper Dayton and who had strong religious principles that he was a calvinist that he Believe that if you had the talent to make money, you should you should to use that talent. But you also have a responsibility to give back the more that you the more power and the more influence that you have the more responsibility. You have to give back to society and we all benefit and our communities benefit. I've had to explain you probably have to do you know, why does anybody want to live here in the in the middle of the winter? And we have the highest taxes around and yet we seem to flourish and it's part of it is due to the year the kind of values that we have here are the corporations have been have been leaders establishing some sound values building a good quality of life, very good community in which to live in Seoul when workers come here or transfer here. They may not want to be here, but then you can't get them out of here after they've come to this this community because of The kind of quality of life that we have developed in The Universities at played a role and we have good government here. We're not perfect. We have a lot of false a lot of problems, but the corporate leaders have been front-and-center in much of the progress that that we have here in the kind of quality of life that has been established. I've kind of wondered on that question, but I thought of some other things when I was talking to Dave your question place, I was wondering how your organization is interfacing at them. And then if you see a parallel Evolution or are you part of their growth as well as well earlier mentioned that medtronic's, needed a wonderful company with the excellent principal headquartered here. They have their major research for sale. I believe in the Netherlands and we just came from this meeting. I mentioned the call Round Table in in Switzerland and around the table at forty of us sat around the table and we had a number of top Executives from European companies in Japanese and then us companies we talked about these these issues and you because of what's happened to our our world. It's so we're so interconnected that what's happening in Europe with the decisions made in in Berlin or Paris affect us here in Minneapolis and when they sneeze and Tokyo we feel it here. And so that's why we believe several things one that we need one standard of ethical business Behavior which companies all over the world file and we've made some progress in that area. And in the end we need to hand in and we need to find ways to work together to address of the serious problems that we're facing all of us together in the world. Whether it's unemployment, which is so serious in Europe and other parts of the world the environmental issues and we're recognizing the corporation's today with a with a power in the influence that they have must take responsibility for some of these very serious interest and it's in our it's a I don't know it's in our own welfare. And so we talk in in Europe, for example that we we companies receive a franchise from the from the public even in Europe to do business and in France and Germany, they can change that franchise as they can in the United States. And if we don't operate in the in the interest of the public in the public interest than our our legislators change our franchise so that others and that's another self-interest reason for us to work together to address the the common problems that we all face around the globe in one of the issues. We've talked about with Europeans and we can learn from them are the work-life work family issues. Some of the Scandinavian countries are further head the way they treat workers and with their work-life work family policies. And so our Center has put together a major program on work life and work family benefits and we spell out how this is in the interest of more productive companies and then end up better run companies and I can give you a whole list of reasons why we do this and in some of that we've learned from the Europeans in the Japanese are Did this because they're their society is changing more more women are going to work in in Japan and in a global Society. There's a certain sameness that that we have all over the world. And so we're trying to address those issues together and in Europe in an Asian around the the world. In fact, they call Round Table has decided to try to set up chapters around the world and has suggested this next year that's going to set up at least five or six chapters. It's promote principal business leadership to promote these principles for business, and we are making progress Robert McGregor is our guest this hour. He's the president of Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility or talking to shower about to business ethics business values, and if you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand or 1 800 to +422-828-227-6001 800-242-2828 or Dollars just a moment. I'm Lorna Benson NPR's campaign 98 continues with in-depth profiles of a candidate on the next All Things Considered will hear from dfl gubernatorial candidate Mark Dayton about his plans to boost State funding for Education practices were beliefs are we need to provide increase the hours for public education is considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities, by the way, our election coverage continues here at over the noon hour Jay Palmer Norm. Coleman will be in the Republican party is endorsed candidate for governor. You'll be here to take your questions about where he stands on the issues. So we hope you'll be able to join us that's coming up over the noon hour today program. Minnesota Public Radio is supported by Ecolab supplier of cleaning and sanitizing products and services. Sunny skies are forecast for the state of Minnesota today may be a thunderstorm in the Southeast High is today midday. Wendy's in the north to near 90 in the southern part of Minnesota sunny skies are forecast for the Twin Cities with a high reaching the upper 80s right now. It's in the low eighties in the Twin Cities sunny and 81° to load sunny and 72 Rochester sunny and 78th. St. Cloud sunny and 79 Fargo sunny and 77 Sioux Falls or sunny sky and 80° Robert McGregor is our guest this our he's the president of the Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility. The center has developed. There is a business principles or standards for businesses around the world follow to try to act responsibly in this age of the global economy. Been good enough to come by today to talk about those standards again, if you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand or one 800-242-2828. On your next go ahead place. And I'm delighted to hear that Minnesota is a leader in this field by a question has to do with the corporate marketing of either unsafe or unhealthy products to third world countries Minnesota seems to be in a special and delicate position. Now as the beneficiary of the tobacco settlement to be paid out over the next couple of decades and it seems that the success and continued existence of the Tobacco Company seems largely dependent upon their marketing of the same unhealthy products to third world countries, so that their profits or seems like it's going to be coming from a great deal of suffering but they'll be creating around the world and a great deal of Health costs to other countries around the world and yet minnesotans are going to be the beneficiaries of that continued success in other markets of the tobacco companies and I'm just curious about the what kind of approach would the co Round Table had to an issue like this. Well, I hope you you sound like a person who's travel a lot. And when I travel overseas I run into more smokers and you sit in public places and people are usually smoking next to you. So it's a lot different and it is true. We are going to be sorry are tobacco companies will be selling more tobacco around the world. But one of the interesting things that I've noted around the world is that other countries are beginning to address the serious health issues related to a tobacco go out you been reading about smoke-free Airlines. We started in the United States now our foreign competitors more and more of them are addressing the issues of smoking on on on on airplanes and in the end in the workplace. And so I think the tobacco companies are going to have a harder time in the future or selling their Products overseas but right now you're you're right. That's where they're going to make a lot of there their money around the world and in the developing countries and butt and in a global Society we're going to have similar standards all over the world eventually in and hopefully you'll see people addressing the serious health happy hazards of tobacco overseas as well. Does the concerned business executive have a moral obligation you think to speak out on that issue 2A to send a kind of warning to other countries about this? Well, I think principal Business Leaders have a responsibility to speak out on all kinds of issues and we haven't quite frankly. We haven't tackled the tobacco issue. But individually we have I know what I've done personally about about this issue but more and more Business Leaders will be me taking stands and in speaking out on on on these issues but one of the things that concerns me is that our television industry. Our movie industry is is a global industry and soul that I meet with somebody in Russia and they would pay say McGregor. Why are you corrupting our children with your your movies? And on on one hand in the United States, we're coming down hard on the tobacco company. But if you go to a movie today the lady movie stars from the United States are smoking again in the movie is an intellivision and it's time that we get after them. I think that's a very corrupting influence. And so, you know politicians on both sides of the aisle home take tobacco money and someone take Hollywood money and I think we ought to question. Our media companies are our movie companies and these are businesses and I personally have written one of the major movie companies every one of their board of directors and I got a call back from the chairman and he agreed with then they're they're going to try they were and are trying to do some things but So again, this is worldwide. We're we're selling our stuff around the country around the world were influencing values of Children and Families all over the world. And so we have a lot of work to do to put our own house in order and the good news is that we have this set up business principles that we have this group Round Table. We have our Center are centers the oldest such corporate responsibility business driven group in the country were celebrating 20 years this year of service to the community and and our influence is now a not only here in the Midwest, but it's National and all over the world and so little by little we're making some some progress and And tobacco we have a lot of we have a long way to go on that issue back to the phone's Brenda's on the cob on the line of the question. Go ahead place, Yes, I would like to know if you have any suggestions for employees that work for a small company which m is a private company which has recently purchased by some people in DC actually and they have really changed about the focus of the company is a service company. We sell basically our our our services is the product and there's so much to ruin by the profit margin that they're really changing everyone's attitude towards being at work and we're having a really hard time as employees trying to determine where our commitment is it is it to our clients or is it to our new owners? If you don't address the the marketing your your customer? You're going to have real problems. And today companies are beginning to find that if they treat their worker better. They're going to be better off in the long run. We have all kinds of evidence. We can make the business case for this. We're in a very tight labor market and and so good employees if they are mistreated, they can go across the street. That's one of the benefits we have it at in the in the United States. And so one of the reasons were developing work-life work family issues. We call it. The bottom line is because it reduces the cost of doing business that attracts and holds talented increases productivity, it strengthens employee commitment and then builds positive image in the marketplace and we have to get this this message across the small employers also, And then if you want to write our Center or call our Center or the Minnesota Center, we can give you a copy of our our our work-life benefits program that that many many small companies and I are picking up Richard your next I was happy to listen to the first of 30 minutes and I was happy to hear that some of the things that you were talking about the different positions that you're taking trying to get business be more responsive to people but I think there was one glaring Omission which I found quite disturbing in any in your discourse you mention Asia or Europe in all the things that tells us that you've learned and they've learned from you in the mistakes that have been made. But you left out the second largest continent in the world almost a second largest most populous continent in the world where companies have gone to a great extent to ride take people for granted and support dictators. Even governments have done that and it seems it seems in This Global Market the one that gets consistently left out of the picture and and I think it you know, they're going to be some hard feelings. I I hope I'm wrong, but I think they're going to be some hard feelings later on down the line when the chickens come home to roost in them in when when this population of people say to say to companies that have either in in some ways abused the privilege of doing business with them or just ignore them all to all together until they fought in and climbed out in and now they want to go there and do business. I think it's going to be quite unfortunate at people. Organizations like yours and other companies like yours don't begin to pay attention to that fast Market that is out there. Especially if you wait until the Europeans and the Chinese and everybody else gets there in America is going to be one of the last in line to Africa. That's right. By the way, I'm glad you said I only have one glaring and my wife will like that but I've spent time when I'm not working I volunteer for a wonderful organization the international executive service Corps, and I've worked in in South Africa one of my jobs. There was to reorganize the the Black Chamber of Commerce for the country and I ran a voter education the campaign for small black businesses throughout South Africa. And to the North had several projects in in Egypt and South Africa and Egypt are I really needed to prosper South Africa shining a bright light North and Egypt shining a bright light South and I've been in in Nairobi I chaired a is the private sector initiative panel for the UN group of human settlements in in Nairobi to address the serious problems that cities are having World wine and especially in in Africa. So we've got to address in and I have I've talked about these principles for business to two African countries. I've shared it with heads of state in in Africa with ambassadors and others and we got to do far more Africa is such a wonderful continent to look at the resources that we have in Africa compared to Asia. They're far more natural resources and it is it is a shame. What's happened in Africa in the in the corruption that is taking place. I've been talking to people about doing things in Nigeria. One of the largest populated countries in in in Africa that is just littered with corruption and an insult. We address the issues of transparency and Truth keeping and promise keeping and and an inn where we just met for example with the oecd which is the countries. They said they developed countries belong to it and they now have taken a strong stand against corruption because it takes two people to be involved and kurupt kuruption there the the often it's the developed countries that are corrupt in the officials in the underdeveloped countries, but you're you're right we need to do far more. I was on a panel recently with a Peter Drucker and Peter Drucker said we should stop. YouTube on underdeveloped Nations and we should start talking about under managed Nations under managed their poorly managed and and that's something we can do the the Richer countries and in big companies, we can share a good management with some of these countries in Africa. And that's one of the things the international executive service Corps does it sends out to senior Executives with a lot of experience and they give back in countries like Africa tomorrow. I'm going to be interviewing somebody that's going to be who wants to who it will be going to Cairo and I recently interviewed somebody who's going to Uganda and I had to try and help us solve a a business problem there salt agree with your point. We have to do far more in in Africa and Now we're talking about setting up a a cool Round Table Table chapter in in in South Africa this coming year. So we are trying but a lot of work needs to be done in general. Is it is it a proper thing for business you think to do business with dictators tutorial governments, or is it better for a business to to stay out of those countries until they get rid of the the bad guys are bad guys all over and I'm a believer that you can do you can do business in a country where there is a dictator you can help uplift the the standards of of people and and you know, we we argue about this in in China should we do business in in China and I've been to try and I and then I think that if we practice good principles, they're the way we run our company's the way we Employees, we can make a contribution and we can be helpful. But I think the every every country and every dictator you have to evaluate the circumstances there so that I wouldn't I don't think there's an easy yes or no answer but I think companies can help through investment in the way. They operate their countries even under a dictatorship can make make some progress and NBN be helpful. We are unfortunately just about out of time, but I wanted to bring this conversation back to kind of where it started. We were noting at the beginning of the program how how powerful are some of the larger companies have become I'm wondering, you know, long-term should people be worried about that. They have around the globe at least some control. I suppose over the government's that Run nation-states like really little or no control over the businesses that operate across National boundaries. Is there something in the 21st century that's going to become a real problem for the undemocratic nature of the global economy. Absolutely and overtake nation-states is an hour with all their power that affect the global change at the same time. We know that there is mistrust and misunderstanding of business in some quarters that impede both the progress of business in the benefits, which it can bring to society and so on our own self-interest we we need to understand that are franchises. I said earlier it can be changed if we operate the in a way that the public does not think it's in their self-interest. They'll change that franchise. And and you see before election often in Washington legislators lineup to introduce legislation to change that franchise to addressing issues of corporate salaries addressing issues related to Corporation in the environment of the so-called Sweatshop issue and all kinds of issues solved. I think we all have to be alert and and we got miles and miles to go before we sleep but there is some good news and Minnesota is at the Forefront in a very positive way and we're not perfect but I'm pleased to be a part of this and I'm proud of what some Minnesota firms have been doing and with this Coco round table under when Wallin and Michelson others are doing thanks so much for coming in today. So I appreciate it. Our Guest today Robert McGregor who is president of Minnesota Center for corporate responsibility you listen to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio of thanks for calling in this hour and we're going to take a quick break reminder over the noon hour today. We'll be talking with the J Paul Mayer Norm Coleman. The Republican party's endorsed candidate for governor that's coming up over the noon hour. I'm Ray Suarez. It's an average day at Parkland Hospital home of the country's busiest maternity ward. Read me the history of childbirth plus special live coverage of the memorial service for the two police officers killed at the Capitol Building all coming up on NPR news. Talk of the Nation begins at 1 this afternoon, you're on Minnesota Public Radio time now for the Riders almond.