Actor Perry 6 minutes past 12 programming on NPR is supported by carousel automobiles. They audie's store introducing A4 and A6 Avant wagon available in front track and Quattro models. Good afternoon, and welcome back to mid-day here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary. I can glad you could join us president Paul wellstone a phrase that warms the hearts of some and scares the Daylights out of others Minnesota. Senator. Paul wellstone is in Iowa today his first official stop as a possible candidate for the Democratic presidential nomination two years from now last week wellstone actually became the first politician and either party to form an official presidential exploratory committee this so he could raise money for campaign expenses. He said in a letter to Minnesota supporters last week that he will emphasize bread-and-butter economically issues environmental activism universal access to healthcare and education and human rights centered foreign-policy. Does Senator wellstone have a chance? That's one of the questions we're going to explore this hour that place will be focusing on the governor's race here in Minnesota and will be taking a look at the political off Fallout from the legislative session that ended Minnesota public radio's political analyst Bob Meek and Tom Horner are here and we invite you to join our conversation as well politics is our subject. Give us a call Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1 800 to 4 to take to 828-227-6102 for 22828. Now before we get started with Bob and Tom, let's check in with WOAI public radio reporter Mark Moran is done in Des Moines. He is covering Center to wellstone's visit to Iowa and afternoon Mark good afternoon. I should warn you if you're at a time. We're not done with our legislative session yet and I'm in the middle of the State House Press Room. So if you hear any noise in the background, that's what it is as long as there's long as there's no fighting not so far. It's funny. You said the president Paul wellstone. Does he have a chance the latest poll that was just released on Sunday. This was based with the on interviews with 221 likely Republican caucus scores. Either good or bad penny with an I should like Paul wellstone. He has flat last in the polls hear 2% of likely caucus goers among the Democrats like Paul wellstone. Now, this isn't his first visit to Iowa. Obviously what kind of obviously the pole doesn't look good that she got in a good reception though and his previous visits. Well, you know about things like education which is very popular in Iowa. But when you're when you're in the states and someone like Al Gore is coming along behind you with 57% of the poles and granted, you know, we're still two years away from this from the Iowa caucuses, you know, you're coming from behind but at this point Al Gore leaves the field and it's a big feeling that we've seen Bill Bradley dick app hardcore as I mentioned Jesse Jackson Bob Kerrey John Kerry and Paul wellstone in the field as sure to grow in the in the coming months on the Republican side seat fit much bigger. We're going to see Newt Gingrich in town this coming week. So, you know Paul wellstone, although he was an underdog in Minnesota in the senate race is possibly a larger Underdog for the nomination for Conventional wisdom says that the activists in Iowa are generally more liberal than the than the rank-and-file and that that would work in wellstone's Advantage if you think that's true. Well, it could be but you know, that's not true. That's such a small percentage of the people who actually go to the caucuses and you know, when you've got an Al Gore train pulling out of the station, you know, I'm on the heels of Love eight years of relative economic success by Bill Clinton. It's hard to vote against Al Gore. That's what the Democrats here saying is being you know, what percent of the likely Democrats or Republicans is spread among Alexander John Ashcroft George W bush, which is an interesting story cuz he has even been here and he is second in the Republican poll second only to Dan Quayle who's got 20% You know, we've got the rest. John Kasich Jack Kemp Giuliani and Newt Gingrich is going to be here on Thursday. So it's not Republicans and Democrats. Al Gore has a has a wide leading the poll is being from neighboring Minnesota make any difference at all at that help. Well, Sean, probably not Paul wellstone is largely seen as a little bit of a French politician and you no lies you mentioned before talking about things like Alternative Energy although Al Gore's big into alternative energy to but at this point probably not and what is Iowa's track record in terms of being a bellwether. Well, there was a guy named Jimmy Carter in 1976 who is basically a peanut farmer governor and nobody to hurt his name and came here and he managed to win the Iowa caucuses and then went on to win the White House that year and every you every election cycle since people have come here early. They've come here often candidates were campaigning here in 1996 for the 2000 race. So people continue to take Iowa very seriously, even though there's really no logical reason for it. You know, it's it's not as though Iowa is is even demographically symbolic of the rest of the country is largely white very small percentage of minorities here, but people know that if you can get the media time and you know, people still come here come here and go to the church basement and shake hands and you know when you can do that and get yourself on CNN and in Minnesota Public Radio National Public Radio in whatever shaking hands and really visiting with people say that makes great campaign ads and makes a great campaign sound and the candidates know that they continue to come here. They spend a lot of money here and there. More and more money and I know it's incredible the amount of money to spending millions of dollars. Now, I don't remember the figures of Jimmy Carter spent it with no no, no where near that so they treat it is important and it continues to be important for always tough to characterize entire state, of course, and I would imagine the average person. I was real happy to see all that money coming in from the outside. Are they happy to see the candidates? So well, you know, most people frankly think it's too early. I asked Kevin De bruyne play some tape if that's okay Gator got time for a quick second about that this morning and here is a person who has been is the longest-serving governor in the nation. He will wrap up 16 years in office coming up here at the end of this year. I asked him if he really ready to see these candidates yet and he is a longtime Advocate shorter campaigns this coming from the guy who's been in office the longest but this is what he said this morning. Welcome the people that have an interest to come to Iowa and then to get to know the people of this state and we think, Iowa. Has played in I think will play an even more important role in the future so I don't. As right between campaigning and laying the groundwork a meeting people and getting around and helping other people, which is exactly what people like Paul wellstone are doing and other sizing up your chances the Grassroots support and things like that and Iowa, it's still important to get out and shake hands and in the politicians who come to Iowa realize that thanks Mark. Appreciate you joining us in from Des Moines Mark is a reporter for WOAI public radio in Ames Iowa political analyst Tom Horner, who is the Republican and Democrat are here now to talk some more presidential politics and gubernatorial politics and legislative politics, really the full gamut, and we invite you to give us a call as well. Join our conversation. We're talking politics this dollar here on midday Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand and outside the Twin Cities 1-800. 242-282-8227 6000 or 1 800-242-2828. Good afternoon. Gentlemen, hello Gary before we get into the race for governor here in Minnesota talk about the legislative session and so on just a quick comment. Will Paul wellstone be able to significantly influence the presidential debate or he is he truly just a fringe player here by Lil pump Paul wellstone is predicted by many observers to be a significant problem for the person. Otherwise thought of his liberal candidate the minority leader in the house Dick Gephardt and you know dick has had a nice track record in Iowa. That's another answer to that that question you posed. Yes. Jimmy Carter did but you know Dick Gephardt isn't President and and there's a there's a lot of people who won, Iowa. Become prison. So well Stone you seen by many as a kind of one part Jesse Jackson one part Jerry Brown one part Hubert Humphrey. I mean, he he can get up in front of a rank-and-file labor audience and stir them to the heavens and he's he's clean and he's right on all kinds of issues. And Paul is typically underestimated on the short answer to your question is is odds of you know, being successful in his presidential bid there. No better than his odds were when he won the senate seat to the first time, Do you think wellstone has any any chance whatsoever to have a significant play a significant role in the in the presidential contest know I think Paul has a voice in the national campaign only to the extent that the economy takes a downturn only to the extent that that Paul's Brand of social liberalism has has a forum because the economy has as sour to me. I think it's on the Republican side of the aisle. I think it's something like Pat Buchanan's role in the last presidential go round where there was still some perception that the economy haven't quite turned around yet that they were still a lot of of white-collar middle-class workers vulnerable to to downsizing and the global economy and Pat Buchanan could capitalize on that coalesced that sentiment and and be a cage Radler even with that Pappy Canon didn't go very far and I think that's Paul wellstone situation that if if there is an issue out there that that he can grab hold of that place to his social liberalism then maybe but but I think you also have to keep in mind that will Bob accurately points out Paul wellstone has has been underestimated throughout his political career Paul wellstone also has The beneficiary of enormous good luck. Keep in mind that he was re-elected in 1996. When you had a good economy, when you have the top of his ticket running 30 points ahead of his opponent in Minnesota when Paul wellstone had 7 million dollars to spend and still only got 50% of the vote in in his home state. That's hardly a mandate on which to launch a national Camp Bell Salisbury was reporting over the weekend that at least 20 people have a candidate's potential candidates have been traipsing through I'll already and are any people likely to surface any candidates well-known scan. It's likely to surface who haven't surfaced yet or is the field more or less complete at this point on either side Democrat or Republican. I think there are many more to come out on the Republican side where the time, I'd like to be. The expert on the Democratic side has a lock on the nomination, but he he he is positioned and there's really no room in the in the news cycle that happens every day. I mean there is only one story that people talk about in this country and its Clinton and Ken Starr and and that business that there really isn't a whole lot of room in that political mindset for another candidate to emerge. I mean, I follow Dick Gephardt and and I Nyack see other possible Democratic candidates, but I see them on C-Span that they're not on the Nightly News. Time you see any candidates in either party emerging who haven't surfaced yet. I think there will be the perception that some candidates have emerged over the next two years because the public haven't been paying hasn't been paying attention. But but the candidates who will be the overnight Sensations already have done a lot of hard work already have made the inroads to the inner circles already have started to make their connections. I think what we'll see is perhaps somebody like a senator Ashcroft from Missouri who has started to gain a lot of momentum in inner circles, but nobody be on with her and even they are probably don't know him very well. I think you'll see somebody like that all of a sudden burst on the national scene and and will stand back and say goodness. Where did that person come from? But did the nature of national political campaigns is such that if you haven't already started and Mark Moran was alluding to this if you're not already out there making your connections with Ed. Insiders pretty hard frankly to be an overnight sensation this our political analyst about Meek and Tom Horner were talking politics the full range today from presidential on down special Focus gubernatorial politics here in the state of Minnesota and some Fallout from the legislative session. Love to have you join our conversation. Give us a call to 276 thousand in the Twin City area to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828. I want to get to our first caller here in just a moment but a quick comment to terms of the race for governor while nobody's been watching or very few people have been watching this convention process delegate selection process has been Rolling Along started back in March with the precinct caucuses. It will culminate in June with the state conventions. Do we have any idea at all? Which candidates are collecting delegates enough delegates to do anything up on the Democratic side Bob. What's your what's the reading on the Democratic side? It's Freeman in the lead strongly and Humphrey who actually is not even a declare candidate let alone a candidate in the dfl processed having substantial interest on the part of of delegates. I think if you were to towed up the numbers you would see Freeman or uncommitted in the lead the there about two-thirds of the way through the county unit process that selects these twelve hundred delegates conventional wisdom. Is that no one would be endorsed who did not say that they would be abiding by the party's endorsement process and the only dfl candidate to say that is Mike Freeman, so Most Democrats would expect a crowded late primary and to have in that primary very well-funded very articulate candidates very different messages. And it's it's going to be a lively year will Freeman be able to get the the 60% of support from these delegates required to get the official party endorsement. Freeman is the only candidate I think you who would even have a chance and on any given day. I would think he would be the endorsed candidate Tomei what's been happening on the Republican side without the mixed bag. I think a lot of people looked at the the three-way race among Norm Coleman Joanne Benson and Allen quiz and said, it's Norm Coleman for the taking that his solid record of accomplishment as mayor of st. Paul his good press clippings the strong campaign he ran last year. I'm all are going today come together in June at the Republican convention and sent him off to do battle against the Democrats. In fact, it is much more of a a muddy driveway. If if the rules had not been changed, I think as thinks it right. Now you look at it and say this has the makings of a deadlocked convention that they can't get the endorsement out now because I made some real changes. It is much more likely this year that an endorsed candidate will emerge from the at the convention and end. It still is likely that that candidates will be Norm Coleman, but it's certainly not the slam dunk that a lot of people expected it to be when he announced in February. A lots of colors are on the line. And if you would like to join them if you've got a question or comment about politics, this is the hour to weigh in the experts are here. They've, you should see by the way. Those are your course you can't see over the radio, but I think it just have mountains and mountains of paper statistics most of it. I suppose there's nothing to do with politics. But anyway, they brought those things with what do you know how Gary as they say in the media never let the facts stand in the way of a good story before it takes a shower with the political analysts on Warner and Bob make to 276 thousand or one 800-242-2828 Steve. Go ahead, please I have come from the perspective of having only worked on one campaign in my life. And that was for George McGovern back in the 60s. And I have very definite feeling about Miss wellstone. As I did after that campaign was over and that is that it seems when I believe very strongly in a politician stand as I do in this the wellstone not only does he not have a chance of being elected in a in as president, but I would hate to lose his voice in Congress because I really feel that on many of the issues that he believe so passionately in most politicians give lip service to those issues when it comes to voting and actually working for it that they dumped off on it. Where is Miss wellstone continues to work hard for those issues Bob any chance that Paul wellstone will decide to stay in the Senate and seek re-election. Once again victim of the term limits movement. He gave freely and of his own will Subscribe to a two-term limit on his service in the Senate and I think his presidential campaign then in some respects other than just being at a Minnesota tradition are always Humphrey in McCarthy Weebly. We have people always running for president serve popular Thing released on the Democratic side, but I think that that while still knowing that he's serving in a minority 45 members are Democrats 55 or Republicans in the Senate. It's likely to get worse after this coming November Maybe by couple seats, and if he's going to have an impact he he needs to speak National. This is not a lot of news to anyone as I think Paul was maybe an office for six months and he became chairman of the Americans for Democratic action. He has always been a a popular National speaker on the labor circuit among liberals environmentalists Etc. And and Paul. I think he's very capable of of running this national campaign. Is the DIA poverty tour that he took right after his last re-election a clear signal that that he has a set of issues as a person. Paul wellstone it is fair to say is repulsed by a national dialogue of sleaze and slime charges and it does not get to the fundamental inequities and income and economic issues that are there where education just isn't working in America and and yes, you can have that rolling in the Senate and and I I think when he stands up and he successfully filibusters and then he's a one-man show, that's fine. But but he's a senator with something to say and traditionally Senators with something to say run for president. Well, let me first of all say that I'm today of all days are on staff seems 91st birthday. There is some tradition of Minnesota Republicans also begin the presidential campaign. There's a saying The Senate that that body is divided between the work horses in the show horses there. There are the people who run for the Senate because they really want the position. They want to get in there and do the work and get involved in the details of legislation and end muck around in the fine print of environmental legislation or welfare legislation or tax policy or whatever. It happens to be I think to a large extent the the senator I worked for Dave durenberger. Was that kind of Senator where he really was enthusiastic about what went on in not only Committee hearing but subcommittee hearing Paul wellstone, isn't that kind of a senator Paul wellstone wants to send it. I think for the platform that it provides and and I think he wants a presidential campaign for that same kind of platform. The problem is that his platform appeals to a very narrow constituency in the United States as a dozen Minnesota again with all the stars aligned Paul wellstone got 50% of the vote. That's not a real strong showing. I think Paul wellstone challenge is to to explain why he's running for the presidency to broaden that bass and on his the issues. I don't think that's possible. Frankly. Let me just add respecting Tompkins comment. It is true that the Republican leadership that sets the calendar in the Senate probably has a shorter number of working days than ever scheduled especially this year. It is. It is hard to believe that a person who cares about National issues. Let alone wanting to get away from all of the counter charges and and sleaze business. But even if you want to do legislative work Trent Lott is not demonstrating that is the Republican leader in the way that he scheduling a business and in the Senate. Bob that may be true but keep in mind that Paul wellstone now has been there for eight years many of those here has been Democrats controlled Congress and since 1993 when the Democrats have control the White House to the extent that Paul wellstone has an agenda and a constituency he certainly has had ample opportunity if there was a port within even his own party to advance that program to go back to the phone spread to mansion that I went out campaigning against his opponent and one of the reasons is for checks and balance and I actually put 30,000 miles on my car last time campaigning against Reebok sweats in order to get the wellstone in not necessary that he's in the field that I'm in too. But it's just a lesser of two evils way. I figured it and I figured that somebody has to get out there and do something I figure one person could make a difference and it cost me a lot of time and a lot of money but I figured that he's done a lot of good work in the field of with the working people of the state. Are you happy with wellstone's apparent decision to run for president? Getting set up the same way. They set up McGovern to run McGovern as a president and the Republicans put money into his campaign in order to get a shoe shoe in for what they're running and that's what I think they got to be real careful up. That's one reason. I'm calling. Thanks. Thanks for your call Fred. To the extent of of someone setting up. I mean the the gossip in the Democratic party or from a a writer like Eleanor Clift. Nationally. He isn't the Welsh town. Is it set up so that a republican can win but that you know, if if you're a big supporter of Al Gore you want Paul wellstone to do really well and in these caucus States, you know where it's really the person to put in Maine Iowa went when you go down the list and you see many of the state's Jerry Brown did so well in against the governor Clinton back in in 92. Paul wellstone can make a difference and give Al Gore Victory wrapping up an earlier a nomination earlier than might otherwise occur. And how is it again that wellstone would help Gore if well soon did well well The wellstone constituencies in the core constituencies off overlay less than the wellstone and the Gephart constituency Gephardt if he's given a clear field to take on Gore if it's much easier in any race if you're by far and away the leader as Al Gore is you want as many opponents out. There's you can find so, I'm sure you have some people giving money to Paul wellstone some people to Bob Kerrey. Some people may want John Kerry run. Let's just get that filled full because then when the numbers go up for Iowa or anywhere else in the country from the first to the to the last the core totals are going to look bigger and everyone else. It is diminish. So it's tagore's Advantage to have a crowded field. And since Gephardt is normally seen. Has the person who has run the longest made of presidential bid before if you can we can get part then you was Al Gore you're you're in better shape the ticket interesting ly enough that people are speculating about on the national level is one of Gore and Gephart combine the two as 14mm Apple. What wellstone does is maybe makes the ticket go a little bit to the left or consider some issues that might not otherwise get hearing whoever ends up as the candidates or even in the process of selecting these presidential candidates. Can we expect all of the candidates this time around to be grilled extensively about their sexual history? I think we certainly can expect them to be grilled about their private life's. I think there is some backlash on on the the sexual activities of the candidates that that may put some brakes on on the more explicit kind of of questioning, but absolutely they are are going to be put out there for public examination. And and I think the real unfortunate part of it is that that examination is not going to be driven by the likes of national public radio or the New York Times or CNN. It's going to be driven by the that the more Sensational media. I also want to go back to two points and Fred made one is that I think with a fairly High degree of confidence, I can assure Fred that Republicans are not going to be funding Paul wellstone campaign, and I don't think they funded George McGovern campaign. Which isn't to say that I'm going back to the next Sunday's who are some dirty tricks involving Edmund Muskie that that perhaps open the door for a former Governor. But but secondly more substantive law hit his comment about campaigning against Rudy boschwitz in order to create checks and balances within Congress. I think is a commonly-held sentiment these days but one that is very dangerous. The problem is that you end up with a Congress that has lesson agenda and more of a course at least resistance you find those things that you can get done that that path. I vote that the extremist on the left like a Paul wellstone and the extremist on the right instead of finding the the things that they ought to be done and been pursuing what the the country really needs. What we really ought to do in my opinion is give a party a chance to run the Free or the state and an NC what happens instead of always trying to find that that check and balance and and stalemate government. That's Republican Tom Horner Democrat by Mika's with us. We're talking politics this hour here on midday. And again, if you'd like to join our conversation, give us a call 227-6020 area number to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828 Jim your question. Please comment on the Republican gubernatorial race and have your gift coming on that. I admit that I'm a norm Coleman partisan and I wanted to talk further about the fact that it's kind of an interesting situation in that are very popular Republican Governor never did actually get endorsed at regular convention for either his throat the Republican and that it's interesting that there does seem to be a fairly equal. Mouse support for all three candidates or we would also seem that and this gets kind of complicated but there is actually a real distinction between Chris and Benson so their supporters don't easily support each other. And the other thing is that if they blocked Coleman from getting the endorsement it would simply mean they would go to primary cuz normally agree to abide by the door, But of course if there were no murderous with a wild run it would seem very unlikely it either Benson request could be cold in the primary. What did you get for coming on that? Well, the problem with the primary is that you throw out all the the traditional rules of politics particularly this year. Where is the primary in Minnesota? Of course most of the campaign and occurs during the summer wear under the best of circumstances. It's hard to capture anyone's attention. Secondly this year you you have the challenge for Republicans of trying to get attention went when you will likely have such a contentious. Well-financed and and Loud race on the Democratic side of the the ticket and end. So what that really leaves Republicans is with the prospect that it it could be the kind of campaign in which you focus on people who are are driven by Nero issues and and you really play to the the Faithful Inn in that kind of a campaign. I think that it becomes very dangerous for a candidate like Norm Coleman who is very much of a mainstream politician. I think further it also poses a huge challenge for a norm Coleman, even if you survive that primary to stake out the middle ground that is necessary to run in the general election in in Minnesota may not have been the best politics for Norm Coleman in February to declare that he will Wide by the convention endorsement having done that. However, I think he has an enormous amount in at stake and not just blocking the the endorsement not just coming out with with no endorsement but in in winning the endorsement for himself and not running the risk of a primary there such a tremendous opportunity to use this summer while the dfl is beating himself up to to introduce himself as a positive politician to the rest of Minnesota and stake out his agenda and position himself for the fall campaign Bob. How did Democrats see the Republican gubernatorial race shaking out here with the idea that Norm Coleman would be the candidate probably just upset the Fellers on the matter of principle because he did come to their convention and he did Proclaim. What a great Democrat he was and and and then he he switch parties and you know NV Jealousy arises in effect Norm is a very conservative Democrat perhaps who decided that the easiest way to get to the top who is not to have to run with these other five Democrats in a primary that the crowded when Thomas was talking about but instead, you know, take the move become a Republican and you know, go to the Head of the Class now and in doing that, you know, he's had to switch positions. He's had to become anti-gay rights for instance. Remember on an almanac show about two months ago. He was saying, oh, I'm a I'm a human rights Republica. And you know, I don't want to promote anybody sexual agenda before I'm for human rights. I'm against discrimination excetera excetera and then suddenly, you know, it's in the paper also know, I guess I would sign a repeal of the states. The human rights ordinance heat, he's having to change his stands in order to accommodate these very strong party people look normal. It's time to suggest, you know run as an independent or something in the general election his his standing in the Republican party. I think also was hurt by the legislative session. I mean, he he is not winning points for having in effect been the sacrificial lamb that they sacrificed a million-dollar bonding built for this. This is the charge that many of the Republicans are making is that that Arne Carlson was I I don't have enough believe this by the way, cuz I think Ernie was actually just doing his own legacy, but many Republicans are charging that this big giveaway with the little centers in historical memorials and all these All over the state little light rail here a little list there that this was all done so that the norm could be successful with getting the the stadium and Quest is made it clear that professional sports is something he's against taxpayers money going to the the the public purse in effect underwriting the private interest. Joanne Benson has not said yet on the New Deal whether she likes it or not, but she was against the old stadium deal with Norm came up with and it makes it a little complicated because the the two Republican Grassroots movements that I see right now are the four thousand folks that showed up at the Capitol to say you don't give me back the rebate and a considerable number that do not want to see the the public money going to these private interest and a norm seems to have gotten himself I think somewhat Ask you jam your question, please. Yeah, I'm calling because I have two issues and that one is relative to the reporting of the personal lies of the politicians, and I wondered if somehow the same rules. could be applied that which I apparently I replied to the National politicians worth more well-known politicians regarding their personal lies could also be applied to those locally in power in these include corporate presidents and chairman of the board to their personal lives, you know, could we also get them since they employ so many of us that was the first issue and the second one was I think relative to diversity could the the the difference or quits could your guests to find what they termed the Insiders another words Paul wellstone may or may not have Connections to certain insiders Cadet could the Insiders be defined and contrast to those who may not be on the inside and I presumably think they may be easy voters to issues if they couldn't help with one or more of than that be great definition of insiders as it applies specifically to the wellstone deal. Are you talking about the party officials or the activist versus the general population who could be defined as an Insider? You spell I would take it his natural appeal around the country. He helped to end in Jesse Jackson's bid. He had he was the coordinator here in Minnesota and in very successful low Jackson Africa where they were at least a tie door or the or the top in all over the country that exists I mean, Wait, whether it's among the people who have helped to Jerry Brown before Jesse Jackson or other liberals state-by-state there. Is that Network in that constituency and I would think they would be the wellstone Insiders. Is it legitimate to a hold of private sector people to the same standards personal behavior that we hold public officials to It it depends how you define those standards. Should we beat be searching through all of the the private goings-on of public officials or private sector leaders? Absolutely not when those actions however crossed the line that now affect the the public responsibility with which they are charged should we explore those dealings? Absolutely. Does that include a lot of what President Clinton is accused of in up in my opinion? Absolutely. It does get your question, please. Yes, I'm going back to the beginning of the the program Bob make was remarking that he thought that Mike Freeman had a very substantial delegate lead and that if the convention were held today that he would be nominated been doing some checking around for the last four days for 5 days with some people from both the Tribune and the Pioneer Press and that's really not the way that they have it. They have it with Freeman with a slight lead maybe a 35 delicately Dover Humphrey where the Route 300 still to be selected this weekend. And the rest of the uncommitted Bob's basis for making the statement is but I think he's kind of not really connected to where we are. Bob's quilt my my basis for that is conversations with the campaign managers for Mike Freeman and for skip Humphrey within the last 12 hours and looked at the numbers that have that have come in and I am I am of the opinion that delegates are unlikely to vote to turn themselves out of office in effect, which is what would happen. If they were to decide that a person like Mike Freeman who has worked for, you know ages to have this come together who stepped aside. So John Marty could get indoors done all these things. I think Mike has a couple hours on the phone each night to talk to the Delegates that he invests personal time in them. And it's my feeling from doing politics in Minnesota for 30 years particular Party politics that that there's a distinct natural alignment. Now, it may be that the delegates will will say no endorsement but the idea that the idea that skip Humphrey would be endorsed by a party that he's not not even a formal candidate B. He hasn't gone to their county unit conventions. See he's not on the phone calling him every night. I mean that that would that would be quite a changed. So based on past precedent. That is it. Is it more likely that the delegates to the dfl convention will not endorse anybody or endorse Freeman. I'd say it's a toss-up but the Edgewood go to endorsement Jonesboro 1984 22 ballots. I mean you have a life in the party as long as your process is working as long as people are observing it and there are very good reasons to think about, you know, electability and all these things and and to suggest you know, is is my collectible does he have the right qualities etcetera, but he he has a very very strong lock on the the hearts and minds of the delegates. Can they be swayed to go out where perhaps but not likely to endorse house where John your question, please. Okay, they have a pretty much settled have they not on on Jessie them to all right as their candidate the Reform Party. Yes. Yes player. What will they meet their 5% threshold. I think they will can they influence the agenda? I think not likely particularly in 1998 where it's going to be hard for any politician to to establish an issue to get people engaged and excited. I think when I'm particularly in the gubernatorial race when there is not an incumbent that either defines the agenda or against whom other candidates can find their agendas it it becomes very very hard and and third-party candidates in particular where they struggle for news coverage for relevancy not because of their issues, but because of the perception that they are third parties, I just think it is going to be very difficult. Few years ago. It looked like they Reform Party was at least of the outside around about you you fellows of course all this much more closely, but it looked like a reform party was had a lot of support and and might actually get past that traditional 3rd party status. Did they make a an error by not focusing on the all the legislative races going to build up from the ground ground floor right out the economy got better. It it it took away. A lot of The Angst that people were feeling that cause them to look elsewhere but there was a sense that the government wasn't responding to the real needs of people but a lot of those needs were being driven or defined by the the perception that the economy had left people behind and end with a huge difference was that the economy wasn't just leaving behind those who traditionally are left behind now, it was middle class being affected and and I think that really gave a lot of rise to the Yeah that the Reform Party along with a very articulate spokesperson in the other form of Dean Barclay who who just felt that he was becoming I think he felt was becoming the Harold stassen of local politics in Minnesota with Norm Coleman's presence in the media. If the Republicans going to the indoor Champion League 04 events in Northwest. Do you think he would? You would really abide by the endorsement. And I found anything well, maybe in two or two I can get it if I prove their them. Very committed to the party or did you think he makes with your money at the independent? And if so, how would that bass player? I don't think there are any circumstances under which Norm Coleman would run as an independent as we're just talking about. It is such a huge uphill battle to to fight that he would not do it. I think he has locked himself in where he almost has to abide by the endorsement. The one exception perhaps is if this would be the endorsed candidate for maybe he could argue that the party was so out of touch but I don't foresee any circumstances under which elmquist is going to be the endorsed candidate. I think it would be very hard for Norm Coleman and having as Bob is fond of pointing out having switched parties having just been elected mayor now to take this pledge of abiding by the endorsement and and coming after the convention to say all wait a second. I didn't really mean that I can stick candidate like When Benson who certainly is is a conservative but I think would would be in the mainstream of Minnesota politics hard to what make that issue stick for Norm Coleman. Go back to their private lives question from my point of view is pretty much the opposite of times. I think that the response that people the way I read the polls is that people believe that there are public issues real public concerns and and particularly among Women Voters. There are concerns about education and the welfare of children. There are concerns about violence. What happened in Jonesboro and they're there is an there is a very vocal minority that you know floods the call-in shows of Television the Larry King in the rest wanting to talk about sex but I think people that have said that they want the public issues to be discussed. Do they want to make room for you know, someone is saying like in the grunseth matter this person is potentially involved in the sexual abuse of children. Yes beat people, you know, they put that somewhere near the agenda. But even then there are voters who believe that they have a that they have so little opportunity to be listened to by politicians that they are there claims are ignored so much of the time that they don't want to see their time wasted in in these kind of sleaze discussions which inevitably one day dick armey says If I were the president and I did bad things I'd resign and then the next day the talk shows have a writer in Texas who has an anonymous source that has said who dick armey is done some terrible things in his private life all of that that I think offense at least a substantial number of Voters who who see that that unless it has something to do with maybe the abusive children that it ought not take the place of talking about health care and children and elderly and end of the really are better issues to talk about Bob. I'm just very quickly Bob. You're absolutely right that the talk shows have Define. This issue is sex the issue that ought to be discussed is not SEC decency and Tegrity commitment to vows and in your obligation to those to whom you have made a promise. Those are the issues in which we should be judging President Clinton very briefly. Do you see any Guess shoes looming here in either the gubernatorial or house campaigns this this coming fall or is it a little of this little of that and not too much of anything? I think that the the gubernatorial campaign right now people are just not tuned into to these campaigns. That's more or less what the posters art suggestion it is it is an opportunity with so many candidates that I'm talking just about the dfl side out that are well-funded to go and talk about an agenda for the 21st century and let me mention I'm encouraged Ted Mondale will be publishing a book shortly that's going to talk about some of the perverse incentives that are working the governmental system that that keep people from moving towards good public goals, I think it's real dangerous time for those of us who do want public important public issues and public policy disgusting campaigns there. The challenge is I'm in a year like 1998 where you have good times people disengage from politics. It encourages candidates to push out to the extremes and to look for issues that aren't essential to the public the body politic. What are essential to get voters to turn out and that becomes a real scary time like a gentleman appreciate your coming by political analyst Tom Horner and Bob Meek talking politics this hour at midday. Thanks everybody who called in programming an NPR is supported by shandwick. Your company's reputation is an asset management is the role of shandwick public relations Gary I can hear thanks for tuning in. this week listen for a series of reports and commentaries on treaty rights and tribal sovereignty in northern Minnesota weekday mornings at 7:20 on Minnesota Public Radio know FM 91.1 We have a cloudy Sky now 59 degrees at Kennedy when FM 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul. It's going to be cloudy and Breezy all afternoon, but had 65 yet and there's a good chance for some more rain shower or thundershower clearing tonight with a low in the mid-forties partly cloudy tomorrow or the high in the low 60s. Which one