Thank you Gratis, six minutes now past 11. Good morning. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary I can glad you could join us legislators are trying to finish work on this year's K through 12 education Bill. Both Minnesota house, Minnesota Senate passed their versions of the bill conference committee is now trying to resolve the differences in those two measures as usual money is involved how much to spend and what to spend it on but legislators have also been discussing the State's new graduation standard whether school should have more time to move to that new standard or whether the standard itself should be changed in some way and there are lots of other issues as well being talked about the length of the school year salary for superintendents joining us this hour to bring us up-to-date on just how those negotiations are going or two key legislators involved in education issues dfl state. Senator, Larry Larry poggemoeller from Minneapolis, who is the chair of the Senate education committee and the co-chair of the house senate education. Conference committee and joining us from the capital is Bloomington State Representative Alice secretly lead Republican on the house education committee. We also invite you to join our conversation this hour. If you have a question or comment for legislators fold, the Miller and seagren about to education issues. Give us a call are Twin City area number is 227-6002 276 thousand or if you're calling from outside the Twin Cities, you can reach us toll-free, and that number would be 1-800 to +422-828-227-6000 or one 800-242-2828. They're probably Miller representative secret. Thanks for joining us this morning. Basic question. To start with this hour of the state has a 1.9 billion dollar Surplus. We are constantly hearing complaints from people around the state about there not being enough money to provide even basic services in the School's teachers having to buy their own supplies in the like are you planning to increase substantially the amount of money that's being spent on education. Will Gary there will be about a hundred eleven million dollars additional expenditures this year. It's an agreement between the two conference committees are ready. And that's on top of about a 1 billion dollar increase last year so will be significant new Revenue would be in the staff development in the technology area. Is it enough that's always open to wait. I think some of us would prefer to do some one-time technology spending in in K-12 education rather than giving him another tax rebate but the house representative seems and the governor seemed pretty determined to give another tax rebate on education get in this for the Spy any of my things that I know that's a significant amount of money. I do agree with Senator polka Miller that and we need to look at staff development needs and Technology needs the weather. We need to spend another hundred and eleven million dollars in have an increase of $120 in what we finally call tails is going to be part of the discussion. Ashley closeout are conference committees in and look at the overall spending Republicans indeed. I would like to see most of the Surplus returned to the taxpayer since that wasn't over collection of money. So I'm beyond what we budgeted for K-12 and all the other agencies that we fund. How are these two realities get reconciled as you point out the education spending went up like 14% last year and yet again this year you continue to hear about schools not having enough money and not for glamorous exciting new programs just for the basics know how can those two realities coexist? Well, I I think that we are going to be addressing some of the basics this year. We have been emphasizing and rightly so accountability and achievement and we're trying to address bad with the graduation standards and the profiles of learning. So what we're doing this year is looking at making sure that we have sufficient staff development money to implement that and we're also looking at Technology support audible have to go along with that. So I think in a non funding here, we look at some adjustments to the budget but not you know tens and tens of millions of dollars of of adjustment because this isn't a budget year. Those are some of the basics that we're addressing this year increase the 14% increase or whatever the figure was was that simply not enough to keep up with enrollment increases and inflation. Is that why some districts are falling so far behind exact? Hey, there are there are out of that 1 billion red 14% increase last year of significant amount of that is inflation and enrollment growth of pupils and particular districts in our state who are low property two types of deserts in our state are under a crunch those that have rope low property tax. Well, that would be some of our Suburban communities and many of our rural communities those types of stress but in addition districts with increasing numbers of children in poverty under stress because you have to do language programs and acclimation type activities to get some of these immigrant children into a position where they can improve their learning. So those those types of stress in the state district set are high on the cube per pupil spending that have very little poverty in their District. They're doing fine, but it's the other two types of districts that I think you're having difficulty or Districts that have four kids right? It does not enough money. Is that the problem or or is it distributed improperly? Does it get lost in the education black hole what happens to that money? Probably all of those three things. We did significantly increase the amount of money that is driven directly to children in poverty. Cuz that's kind of the best measurement we have for children are going to be at risk educationally. But when you have the size of the budget in this area 10 to 12 billion dollars, depending how you counted it. Sometimes it doesn't up like a black hole and it's hard to figure out exactly how the money is being spent. We think our educators are working very very hard, but we are asking them to do a lot more than we used to ask them. We are no longer asking simply for Reading Writing and arithmetic they have to do that. But in addition they have to do I order critical thinking skills, which is a much more difficult task particularly. If you have families that are not as supportive of their children is as we need them to be our secret and what about all that money that the state is appropriating to help districts deal with their special needs. Do you think that money is being spent wisely? Are we spending enough of it? Should we got back on it? What should we do with that? We put another hundred million dollars into compensatory last year was a record amount of money and I agree with him that we need to address the issues of five districts that have a concentrations of poverty. Scary thing that I would like to apply to is Senator polka Miller's on the Senate position last year was to have that kind of money follow the student then and it was because of Gary thought his comment show me the money. Where did they go? We've been spending a lot of money on compensatory money over the years, but we don't seem to have any achievement or accountability for that money or results for that mine. So Senators polka Miller's committing last year insisted that the money go to the side, which I think is a very very good idea and I think what it's doing now is forcing the sides to the to concentrate on programs and and things that are going to help children also mentioned the other issues of L E T limited English proficiency monies and special education. Those are two other areas that we need to continue to address. As we go forward next year. I don't know that I am because this is no funding year. These are topics that we need to address next year, but I was closer of a bill that actually fully funded LEP for this biennium. It's still because of the influx of immigrants that Minneapolis and st. Paul or having that they still are having to plug that hole and I think that will be a discussion it will continue to try to help children in those areas, but we did do some significant funding last year. That will really help districts callers hear the profile of learning that which amounts to kind of the the second phase of the new graduation standards. It's supposed to take take effect this fall there have been complaints that a lot of school districts aren't ready for it. And it needs more review. How's that going to work out? Is that going to program going to be phased in or are you going to force all the districts to start as scheduled? Fallout, how is that going to get resolved Gary? I was on the floor of the house that would propose phasing in the profiles of learning. We started to hear from a number of teachers and and parents that as they looked at how to implement the on 24 standards within the 10 profiles that they were having a hard time that at least college-bound students were having a hard time getting those 24 electives squeezed in and the administrative law judge its ruling came out the other day, I think was yesterday or the day before which noted the fact that we needed to I certainly go far with the graduation standards. But after reviewing the number of issues he recommended phasing and he also recommended possibly looking at implementing 18 standards with the remainder being elective so that there was a little bit more flexibility for college-bound students, so In a champion for accountability and achievement in for the grad standards, and I think we're in agreement that we want to go forward. It's just in what Manner do we go forward to make sure that everything works well, and then we we aren't out any difficulties that we may have as we go forward. We're going to go forward and many teachers are ready to go ahead with the higher standards for those that For whatever reason or legging behind we perhaps will provide some additional help in some accommodation timing-wise, but it'll be very modest. We think the bulk of Minnesota educators are ready to go ahead with higher standard. We think they've been asking for higher standards and they're ready to go at 3-year phase-in period is what is a workable plan? Yes. Yes, there will be some that will struggle with it and they need to be nudged and perhaps some additional staff development needs to be provided. But overall the delivery system is ready to go and there is a bipartisan agreement Governor house senate Minnesota needs to take this step forward. It'll make a difference for our children. We're talking about the education bill that's being put together at the state capitol are gas this hour dfl state senator. Larry pulled another the chair of the Senate education committee and the representative of Seagram's joins us from the state capitol. She's the lead Republican on the house education committee if you'd like to call in with your question or Common, here's the number. It's 227-6000 in the Twin City area to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities 1-800. 242-282-8227 6001 800-242-2828 first question about education dollars, and I'm hoping that your guests can clarify it for me. We can talk about it in several different ways an accountant could give you a pro or con depending upon what I figured he chose when I hear about this 14% increase in the budget toward education. I'm wondering does that mean that more money is getting to the classroom into the student or does it mean that we are just covering the cost of new students which isn't affecting the quality of Education overall except to keep it at the same level. I guess I'm wondering what what amount of money is being increased to each student. Very good basic question 14% increase is that actually increase the amount being spent per student. I can jump in and answer the question when I first and then Center to Poca Miller wants to make his comments. That's fine too. We had so we put basically I think it was 76 and seventy-eight dollars on the formula for each year of the biennium. We also put about a hundred million dollars into technology. We did a number various other put about 10 or $49 into staff development. There are various different things that we that we've done to try to put more money at for years people were saying to us, we need more technology money. So we responded in that way because I said we put more money into compensatory. What should goes into the child the child that doesn't address the needs of all children and all districts, but it does significantly help many many districts are we actually change that formula sold it more money was Fred Statewide the issue of the enrollment increase The way I understand it. Is that a man that included the actual increase in the population and then we keep saying that inflation information has been very very low. I'm at to 233 % at the most when you look at that when you look at the 14% that was put into education. I think that's a very adequate amount of money was there. I think the the discussion of the debate is did we put a lot of money on the formula know we probably didn't put as much as some people wanted to but we also put money into other programs. We should take some pressure off of the general fund area general education area and allow districts to also help with their programming the general pro programming non are they are the school district officials derelict in their Duty in some way or other or not getting the money to the students. About 80 to 85% of the money that we do give to schools goes to pay for staff and the salaries. So that's a large portion of the money that is spent and districts make decisions as to how they're going to pay their staff. And if they pay above the rate of inflation are above the amount that is given then they have to adjust their budgets accordingly so that if they can't of Miss fairlie for doll that salary increase and they have to lay off teachers and increase class sizes lemonade programs, that's all part of the dynamic of receiving money from the state and then align a local District to decide how it's going to be spent and I don't know that that's the case in in every school district situation. We do you have to remember that the staff is a large part of the budget and that's one of the Dynamics of goes into some of those programming program areas are cats or whatever. I think Alice's burgers in Sebring has stated the facts pretty clearly of the 14% somewhere between seven and nine percent of it would be pupil growth and inflation depending on how one counted and then the additional could be called add-on over and above we had about a 2% per year increase in the general education formula for every district and depending on how one wants to count inflation that either covered inflation or didn't What's a parent to do in this circumstance Center if they go and complain to their school district officials, they will say the district officials would say what we're just not getting enough money from the state and that if I come to you you will say well gee we're spending a lot of money here and there should be sufficient. I think we try to do what represents try to explain the facts and the problem is you can't explain the facts and in an easy 30 second statement and it's a communication issue and to the extent that school districts kind of misrepresenting the facts as if they're always making cuts that makes the discussion more difficult one because there is no District in the state that has less money than it had before they all have more money. And so when they characterize constantly everything is a cut it does confuse parents and and frankly, it confuses legislators and it angers Governors. That's why Governors strike back with things like four 10% and then good people like Senators representing Seger and try to come back and balance out both sides again and and it's a difficult discussions. So I think what we need is for people to try to be a straightforward about what the real facts are and quit characterizing things as cuts when they're not and then when that happens then I think Governors will probably stop characterizing 14% increase. This is all new money when part of its inflation and part of its people grow location to fun people girls and we have an obligation to fund an inflationary increasing and cover the inflationary cost. That's what we should do. And I think we did that and then we also looked at other ways of reforming education. We tried to do some consolidation of things your your son a proposal to consolidate some levies and do some things the governor's proposal to provide more choice and refer. What are all the things that become the Dynamics of of discussing education and in bringing bringing a new idea? So that's all part of it. I'm going to start with a comment because the previous caller around highlighted my first question. I want to thank them thank our speakers for breaking down at 14 and a half percent more honestly than I've heard it. It angers me like them when I hear people I use misinformation in this discussion. It was a it was a more or less 2% each year that was able to go into the area where we can pay people on the school board chair. So I know those that piece of information and I prefer to deal with it honestly, so I appreciated that I would also point out though that it has been some time since there had been any increase in the formula areas sometimes We use changes in where money comes from 4 and call it an increase. For example, there was a reduction in the transportation. It was moved into the general formula area and called an increase when it wasn't an increase. It was just a coming out of one pocket going into another we need to stop those kinds of misinformation because it confuses people are constituents. So when we do want to talk honestly about raising money or what we need to do or how we have to go by paying people. They have the facts they all they here right now is what you just got a 14% increase know we really didn't so, but thank you for that honest discussion. I think we need to have that more often before you run a quick question for you and your school district. Do you have enough money to to provide a good education to all the kids? In your District. We are providing a very good education to our children within the funds we have well, but that isn't the question. Do you have enough money to provide a good education for all the kids in your District? Yes, would I like to be able to to pay people a little bit more than were able to yes, I would like to but we will live within that I did have two other things. I wanted to open up in the discussion. No one was to find out where we last year. There was a proposal to add three extra days to the school year with no additional funding and I don't know where that that status is right now in the Senate would like to repeal those three days the house would like to keep the three days. So that's still being last one at our school spent a fair amount of time this year. We are we're doing very well as far as our preparations for implementing the high standards in the profiles of learning. However, we there are some difficulties there they were working through and we had a meeting with our two representatives and a senator several weeks ago presenting that information and because Are some things that need to be overcome and we're not quite sure whether how the state fits into helping there and implementing some of the profiles some of the package is a material that we use require an extensive amount of resources from the library system's they aren't currently resources that are typically available. We're finding that to implement these we may need lots of that type of resource, whether it's written material or whether it's software excetera. Has there been any discussion on how this part of this implementation is going to be handled. We are working on something called a curriculum library, which would provide all kinds of information curricular options for teachers to use that would be available over the internet and the state will be paying for a large portion of that with material that's provided by teachers around the state and we would become a repository of that information. And so that's one area. Where do I get the other is also trying to provide more resources for staff development and Technology both software and Hardware representative secret are the districts going to have enough support here in terms of resources and and money and the rest to implement this profile of learning that the performance package that I have been developed are optional there. They're not mandated performance package is so if you do have if you are looking at those as guides for your school district, can you see that? There aren't enough resources are the type. Maybe the kind of resource. Maybe you're in a in an area where I don't know if you had to go out and do some kind of research on history and it didn't pertain to your area. You can do different kinds of performance packages and adapt things to the kind of resources that you do have currently so that we're not mandating that you that you have certain kinds of resources for every single School District in that really have to be made clear across the state to the Beast performance packages are not a mandate that you can adapt and do what you want to fit in the resources that you have about the education bill that's being put together up at the state capitol great opportunity to get your questions answered. Give us a call to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828. Our guests this our state representative Alice egret and a lead Republican in the House Education committee and state senator Larry Hogan. Where is with us? He is the chair of the Senate education committee will get to some more colors in just a moment. I'm learning Benson on the next All Things Considered revisiting the Willmar 8th the 8th female bank tellers who made headlines in 1977 when they went on strike for Equal Pay. I wish that this had you had gone away but it really hasn't gone as far away as we would like it to gaining that we are those stories and all the day's news on the next All Things Considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities an hour today. 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We could also get a little rain down in the Southeast highs today 35 to 45 Twin City forecast calls for some flurries or light rain in the high near 40°. It should clear off tomorrow and the weekend right now looks pretty good currently around the area Duluth with a cloudy Sky 33 St. Cloud light snow on 33, right? Chester cloudy in 38 Fargo with a cloudy Sky 34 Sioux Falls. Also cloudy in 34 Twin City temperature 37 and skies are cloudy, by the way, if you're driving take care of Lots sofa area is reporting poor winter driving conditions of Marshall area Willmar Morris Detroit Lakes, St. Cloud Brainerd, Virginia, generally West Central in northern Minnesota, if you're out and about slow down because the roads are probably is not in the best shape for talkin to sour about the education bill being put it put into being put together rather up at the state capitol Our Guest State senator, Larry Miller and state representative Alice seagren, and again, if you'd like to join our conversation to 276 thousand in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one 800-242-2828 and let's see next caller is from Bemidji Robert Glen Place. Random if they called quote-unquote kids. Mm is an increase the Levee for whatever the lower class size whatever else it is. You know, what year was presented as I get the second point. I'd like to make this up the frustrating part. I think maybe the legislators find Administration find the problem is they want equal results. They want equal results from all these school systems are from inner-city schools from Suburban schools. I think the frustrating thing is is it or not getting ankle result in there trying to answer with more money. Okay. I I don't think I'd characterize it as equal results Robert. We are asking for higher results in better results. We clearly when we have basic competency test run the state that indicate that about 30% of our 8th graders cannot read and write at the 6th grade level. We have to fix that and we certainly want everybody to be equal that way. We want everybody able to be able to read write and do arithmetic but with regards to the higher standards were talking about ability to synthesize information create be entrepreneurial working groups were not looking for Eco results are what we're looking for is trying to get every child or young person to meet their full potential in those areas so that we can have a better economy and a better social Fabric in our state. So I am with you on the frustration that sometimes additional money doesn't get better results. And I think there's a pretty strong bipartisan agreement on that around the state. but It does take additional Revenue to help some children get the kind of results. We need to have for both our economy in our society representative. Sigryn the position very, well one question. I have in terms of X spending extra money to get kids up to speed. There's a cap on the amount of money that is spent on that. Is there not the compensatory money isn't there some Camp? Yes, there is why is that now? You think if if it's Dean that you need to spend all say $100 extra per child who falls into this category, then you just spend $100 for all the kids who fall in that category rather than saying it's kind of first come first serve that I did not prompt that question that actually I don't know if I believe that that is actually one of the pieces of contention in the senate in the Senate house conference right now, there is Cap but it's a cap on concentration as you get up to 80% of the children in a building on free and reduced we say that that's you're not going to get additional money. If you go over 81 or 82 3% and it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for a very modest investment. We could lift that cap and it would affect about or I think the figure is 6 or 7 school districts in the state perhaps 20 buildings in the state and I think we should do that and fix that but it is a point of contention. There is a trade-off here though at some point we have to when we put additional dollars in to make up for deficits of children, what would have either because of language challenges or lack of family support or just pure poverty they don't have enough money to to hardly eat and so to learn is a little more difficult. We do have to make up for that but I don't think we have to make up for that forever because when a student graduates they have to compete in the real world just like everybody else and I think we should be putting in significant dollars early on in the early years to helps adults make up those deficits and children, but then we had a phase that out and assume that once a child has been read but been able to be mentored to take to learn how to read then we don't necessarily need additional revenue for that child because they are now on level level footing with other children and that's something I think that is frustrating legislators a lot. There's this presumption that we always have to keep putting money in just because somebody's in poverty and I think we put money in early to help make up for deficits but as the child gets older and has a school district spends more time with the child. We should be facing that down in the school district should be making up for some of those deficits. Should we left that cap for the amount that's available so that all the kids would end up with some additional help at least in the early going. Remind people that we put another hundred million dollars into compensatory which did affect the concentration Factor also so that the districts who have concentrations of children are getting more money. So it's not only just a basic dollar amount for all kids, but it's you know, what concentration Factor that's driven. They are to some of the problems that we're having right now and I are on the way that the money has been driven to the site. I really applaud that the money is filing a child so that that you can you know watching and see what kind of programs are being developed by those children in and follow that money from of the districts are some of the buildings within a district lost some money because of that and I think there's a problem with it. And what are they going to do? How are their budgets going to adjust for that? But we've had a year to adjust for that and I think that's what Senator Pokemon Ora's getting at is that there's some buildings that have a lot. Money because they you know, it follows the child. So if you don't have that many children, then you know, you don't get as much money as you did in the past. So I think that you know, that's probably the the concern that he has right now in his school district, but I think we need to continue the policy of booking a compensatory in addressing the ACT. But what do we need to take the cap off I-90 green with that at this point. He hasn't convinced me yet. Every day of the week until these Grand standards and profiles are put in. I'm in District 9 12 up in Milaca, but I'm also an education student at Augsburg College if I don't want it to sound like I'm you know bashing teachers but in our particular school district, one of the highest property tax districts in the state, we don't even have enough books to accommodate one tenth of the students we have for example in my 9th graders free physics, which is required class. The teacher had five sections of that class and only 25 textbooks. Now, you're going to imply that it is achievement and accountability of the students rather than of the school district or of the teachers know faculty and staff and soon-to-be new teacher. I still think that it is not necessarily more money that's needed. But somebody should maybe start looking at how this money is spent like your Last caller was talking about I don't think that necessarily putting more money in is going to help the situation. Yes, it always will but I also don't think that great raise the stand and I'll raise the expectation but what I see it as and of course because I have a child that is going to be right in that to start of that next year. I don't I see it as a lot more heat on the students without teacher accountability and District accountability whether it be for their how they're doing their job or how they're spending their money. Okay, let's try to address. She she made a number of different statements and appreciate them. I think that local districts. We you know make the statement that the legislature and I know that's in her to Poca Miller agrees with me and I certainly believe in the philosophy that we try not to put too many strings on the money that we get to the districts and we allow them to locally make a decision as to how they want to spend their money. Those are things that you need to discuss with your local school district and school board when you are unhappy with the expenditures are the are the way that they spend the money the profile so I think are going to increase accountability and achievement levels for students. I think it's some of the performance measurements that are being developed are very stringent good and I It's probably wake up call to all of us to examine what we've been expecting us at students. And I think that's good. But I do think the teachers in the process of implementing a profile to learn some really fabulous things to about how to assess kids how to develop teaching methods and and I would I would call lesson plans that people sometimes, performance packages that are much more in-depth and require much more assessment by the teacher. So I had one teacher tell me one time that even if the profiles never implemented that he'd learned so much just in and how to more appropriately assess students that he was going to be a better teacher because of that. So there a lot of side benefits to this to the teachers have learned in in changing the way they approach teaching and I think it's going to be good. Yes, we're going to still have some glitches and and some things to work out. I think in any new system that you did. You have to expect that but I do think that the teachers will be much more, especially with our Statewide testing that we've implemented and a number of the other initiatives dwell on this but that again Sandra, I think he gets hit to the basic Point here. I don't think if we had teachers on from Milaca going to pull them out later if we were talking to a teacher in Milaca he or she would tell us why we're getting rich up here making more money. We could ever possibly spend yet. Apparently, they don't have enough money to buy any textbooks and I'll wear what's happening with the money any idea will Malak is actually a district is probably property poor. So they they don't have a high level of purple spending Beasts of the other districts in the state. I think this is a difficult question because Who who actually gets to decide if someone's getting paid enough for the job they're doing I mean the way that works in the real world as we have a market system of Market forces. That's beside. What's what that contribution to our society is worth. And unfortunately, we've got in knrk 12 system is we don't have a system that allows Market forces to set a price for how valuable teaching is to us. I actually think that if we've applied more Market forces, we would pay more for teachers because they are so valuable to us, but people seem to be reticent to to put additional money significantly into education because they're afraid they don't get the results at the same time. So I think we're headed in fits and starts is getting a little more Market pressure on tour educational system, which will probably drive up salaries because to be a good teacher is a difficult task on the other hand. It will drive up accountability and better results and it for some reason people think Counterintuitive that you can get better results and better paid teachers by going to more Market forces that I don't think that's counter to it if that's the way I think the real world actually works because we know from from all kinds of polling and research that Society values education very very highly and they are willing to pay communities and taxpayers are willing to pay for high-quality education where the Hang Up comes is when they're not sure the money is getting to that and then they get nervous then they start to to close the purse strings and I think that's where we are in Minnesota right now where people are are are expressing frustration that Cassandra and Robert could expressed that they're not sure that we're getting our bang for the buck and I think we can do better on that and I think we will actually have higher paid faculty if we move in that direction because I don't know any parent that doesn't think and know when they have a good faculty. That that person is worth it for their child. It really changes kids lives in the middle of the summer. And by the time it was passed the district's didn't really know what kind of money they had to work with until you know late into the summer and then by the time teachers were actually in place for the jobs that they are going to have to throw the school year. A lot of them got shuffled around 9:05 different teachers in the Saint Paul District that got shuffled 2 years or two weeks into the school year and it was terribly disruptive. And I'm thinking you know, that's kind of incompetent on the part of the governor and the legislature to not get the money to the schools in a timely manner. Okay, I'll jump in and answer make a comment. Maybe that was just a statement not necessarily question. But I think that you know, the special session was created because of the tax credit aside from that. It was very clear that what kind of money we were putting into education. We knew what basically nothing changed much in the the bill except for the approval of the of the tax credit that Governor Carlson wanted so besides that and I know that you still can't take that to the bank and until the bill is signed by the governor, but I think that there was clear direction that the only issue was the tax credit and if they're there was a clear message that do of what kind of money by that time was in the band Yes. There's always some adjustments and even even if that bill has been signed on the last day of session those kinds of things happened in school districts in adjustments to teachers, you know, you can even you'll have an increase in students all of a sudden that you didn't expect or decreasing and now you have to adjust stop people from time to time. So I don't know that we can you can blame Governor Carl's and for all of those adjustments. Yes. I'm at to questions quickly one on the compensatory Revenue site allocation. I really think it I agree with what both of you have said about the goal of the dollars following the pupil. My question is if the allocation mechanism of free and reduced lunch count actually achieving what you intended to achieve what we're finding in our district is our secondary pupils are suffering because with they actually don't often sign up for free and reduced lunch. And so we don't have the count until the dollars are going to the elementary schools when we actually need them at the secondary level Kathy is correct. We we are aware of under counts because of of children not either applying or making it known that they're eligible keep in mind that they don't actually have to take free. Reduced lunch. They just have to be a family that's eligible for it. And we're doing some things to try to improve those counts and we are aware that problem and it will generate more money for those buildings in the future cuz we will be able to get better counts as a question Kathy the second Point inside like both of you to comment on the Alcan looking Myers study over the last 10 years. It's a study done by an outside firm that indicates that we're not truly in funding our pupil allowance is not in front of it at the rate of inflation that over the last 10 years. If we were finding at the rate of inflation, we'd be at $3,600. + so I think probably both the representative and Senator aware of the study in college is for General Ed formula that is probably true. But if you look at overall funding and I I count all of the money that we put into education is real money. I so I think you have to take the total package of money that we put into education and some of it isn't funny money and some oven isn't real. It doesn't all go on the formula College of salaries on necessarily but we are doing some good things and the frustration for me is that some people will demand that all the money gone the formula and we put money on the formula and then people say Oh, no, you're not funding technology or not funding special education not spending the categorical Sweeney more money in there. And so it gets to be about restoration of of how much money is enough money. But I think we try to do the best we can within the budget limitations that we have and I think we will continue to be committed to education in Minnesota. And I know that that's unheard of Pokemon are certainly is I would there's a provision in this bill to this year where we're going to a school district to tell us how much they're going to have to be reacting question. How much money do you need for your District to have all of her children passed the graduation roll. And what we're going to try to do is ask people to set the price. How much do you need to deliver for our children? And once they tell us how much that is, then we can all sit back and say all right, is that the right price or can we get somebody to do it cheaper than you and a couple of quick questions before we run here. Are you going to lift the salary cap that you can pay superintendents St. Paul interested in paying their super new superintendent more than the law currently would allow the salaries of administrative should be key to what the top official gets in the states. That's still under consideration. The Senate would like to eliminate the State Board. We don't think it's performing the function that's necessary. The the house isn't quite convinced yet. So that's still an open question. And the governor has come out against entering any kind of mediation with the n-double-acp on this Minneapolis to school Equity suit is are you folks talking about that or is that a sense that there is funding for that in this conference committee, and we're frustrated by the governor's position where we're not clear. I at least am not clearly understanding why the governor thinks fighting this out in the courts for the next seven years is a better idea than mediating a solution and that's why he thinks that mediation is probably taking extra dollars away from just defending the case. I think there's some concern to about that. There's no defined. List of what is be mediated the n-double-acp won't do it is so Broad and so big that it would be difficult at this point even know what to mediate. So there's some concern that may be correct. We could win the legal lawsuit, but getting better results for these children is what we should be about not winning legal lawsuit, but we have to run unfortunately we're out of time but we really appreciate your joining a state. Senator Larry Paul gengler for Minneapolis chair of the Senate education committee and Bloomington State Representative LLC Grand the lead Republican on the house education committee will continue in just a moment. I'm Ray Suarez according to Lori Andrews an expert infertility issues at the Chicago Kent College of Law. We need laws on egg donation. So both donor and recipient know their rights is not an illegal Limbo with uncertainty about which home that child will go to look at the medical and moral Frontier of human egg donation on the next Talk of the Nation from NPR news. That's at 1 this afternoon time now for Garrison Keillor.