What does sweatcoin minnesota-based Hutchinson Technologies announce it was expanding again this time though in Wisconsin cording to company officials people in Eau Claire, Wisconsin. We're willing to offer more in the way of governmental assistance in communities in Minnesota or other states at the company. It looked at that was one reason cited for expanding in Wisconsin, but the company says the major reason in Pictou Claire is the presence of lots of workers in the Eau Claire area. Eventually. It kind of Hutchinson plant will employ 1,400 people in the company said there weren't enough workers in Minnesota to meet the need to watch more apparently Hutchinson is not alone a new survey by Coopers & lybrand St. Paul Pioneer Press finds that 36% of the Minnesota firms. It surveyed are having trouble finding skilled skilled and trained workers and perhaps even more interesting 19% of those companies are looking for what are described is Blue Collar laborers.Unemployment rate is low in Minnesota, but there are still a lots of people in Minnesota who say they can't find a good job. So we thought it would be worthwhile to try to find out why the mismatch what's going on joining us here in the studio is a e piter Gillette who is Minnesota's Commissioner of trade and economic development. Also with us is Tom Gillespie, Minnesota state demographer who keeps track of who we are and where we live for coming in really appreciate it nice to be with you have we gotten to a point where basically everybody in Minnesota who wants a job and have a job diesel job. I don't think that would be a fair statement. We certainly are at a full full employment economy right now. At least if you look at the data as measuring unemployment worth the lowest unemployment rates last month. I sense that the state started keeping the books on that that goes back to 1978. So you're fining basically with our economy working at the level atIs companies are indeed are looking for workers of virtually around the state primarily in your Manufacturing in your high-tech companies. So I think it's fair to say that there is work available for those who are trained and capable of filling the jobs that are being sought out that raises of another issue that maybe we can get into a during the course of our discussion. Where are most of the jobs in the Twin Cities in the suburbs outside the Twin Cities in the larger communities and rural areas and they're virtually all over you take a look up in the Northwestern Minnesota where we have our snowmobile manufacturers. They're going to going all out quickly as they take on a new line of of all terrain vehicles there looking for workers you go down to zytek in Redwood Falls last summer. I was out in Redwood Falls. They were out they needed a hundred new employees out there. They were operating at that point in time on a 52 hour work week andThey were very desperately looking for new workers. You go down to Southeastern Minnesota. You'll find the same. So it's it's basically all over in terms of it. As I say trained capable trained in a prospective employer employees to take these jobs Legend. Anyway, has it that back in the thirties and forties. Lots of people move to the Twin Cities from Minnesota in search of jobs. Cuz that's where the jobs were. The first one was at true. Is that Metro will that moving and still occurring that the people that particular young people as they finish High School in in the oven on metropolitan area is not just of Minnesota with surrounding states to 10 too many tindal up to the Twin Cities as a place to to strike out to it make your fortune or two to get to higher education in the Twin Cities are are a very strong and growing area. But we also see strong manufacturing growth at least relative to the rest of the country strong or a manual.Growth in non-metropolitan Minnesota and you if we find areas of the state that that have have a fairly substantial substantial growth and are unemployment rate is dipping down pretty low. Is there any much indication that people are moving from the Twin Cities back to these areas where there's some growth in in jobs? There is some movement outward from the Twin Cities, but that that's more outward to to just the out to the newly emerging suburbs in just beyond the prevailing mood still tends to be ya from the non metropolitan area to the city's though. There is there is movement from other states also into into some of the non Metropolitan Community. So I have to clean for example and in Northwestern Minnesota with the with the snowmobiling is no evil Manufacturing in window wall manufacturing their send inMarion County touches Rosso in the far Northwest part of the state is very strong pull of manufacturing growth is pulling people from a number of states and in places like Willmar freaking put you know, how far from Hutchinson we see you at the poultry processing pulling people particular from from the southwestern part of the United States and bring you in labor for those job. So we are actually seeing some looking out worked and importing is were labor to fill Zumiez jobs surprised though, there isn't more. I mean, there are people who are looking for a job and you would think if there's a job to be had in a world or a Wilmer or being on name the city. Yeah that they would leave the Twin City metropolitan area and go where the jobs are I would I would argue this point to Gary. I think that is you look at our Workforce in our state. We are still fundamentally a very popular state in the Union are Origins go back two or three generations of of immigrants who come to this state.But if you think back in those days and think in terms of what even is happening right now with 3rd or 4th generation the big emphasis then was on education to have my kids quote go to university. We're producing today out of our educational system and we have three or four different higher education systems in this state. We're producing bachelor's Bachelors of Science Bachelor of Arts degree young people who are waiting on tables at the same time. We have a desperate need for certain skills such as plumber and as as as plumbers as drill, press operators as welders. Those are those are in critical shortage particularly as you get into out State Minnesota and part of the problem that I think that we have going forward is being able to change or shift the culture has it we're in our own in our own homes so that as we have children in my case, it would be grandchildren that that is is just as esteemed and just as respectful to to go to a vocational technical school.And get a certificate or maybe someday a degree if we want to infer that as it is to go to the University of Minnesota Morris or the College of liberal arts or the marketing school is a business school here at the University and I think that is going to be very important as we go forward here. Are there are there places for people to live outside the Twin City metro area if they would go out there if they have the skills and we're determined to go move to Hutchinson or wherever there any place for them to Lily hear about affordable housing being an issue. If I would I would just speak up from a demographers point of view experientially as I've traveled around the state and I do so extensively summer last summer for the first time. We had a new theme of of concern of issue being raised in that was not just affordable housing affordable rental housing for first-time employees a young man or woman age 19 who may come into a company of the offered a job at $8 an hour that 16th.$1 a year less taxes at 12,000 take Homer thousand a month. Most Bankers will say you shouldn't spend more than about thirty 35% and housing that's renting then for 300 to $350 a month for a first-time job. There isn't such a capacity available in so many of these town and then suggested the young person. Well if I'm not going to work in this community or have rental housing available to me. I'm a look elsewhere problems with the mobility one issue is the incidence of to our families and in the difficulty in a smaller labor market, you know smaller than say the Twin Cities the difficulty of finding an appointment for that other person most families now, but our families in which all adult members are working if it's the one adult member that person's working for is true. They're working at the vast majority more than 3/4 or famous in which everybody's working. So that that makes z z Mobility a littleLittle bit more difficult is finding that second job so I can good job in the end of professional feels about the racial issue. I would think that might be a problem in some areas of a racial racial isolation is it what time and I work we're discussing this before the program and he can speak to this fresh better than I can but I heard a vacant Patriot his make a comment here in a speech a couple of weeks ago about the changing mix of our Workforce as young people matriculate out of the school system into the workforce. Once again, I think our state has been the beneficiary of our of our strong agrarian a Heritage. Where are young people learn to get up at 5:30 in the morning and proverbially milk the cows and fix the tractor and then go off to school and and consequently the value of a working hard and being very productive comes from the heritage in the year 2000 or 2002 the number of pi.People that are entering the workforce from her from our school system is going to be highly preponderant and skewed towards the air from the metropolitan area and we know for a fact that those young people come and do not come from an agrarian background and they and they have are going to have a different orientation a different set of values and skills to the bring it to the workforce. So I think that's going to have a very profound effect in terms of going forward again in terms of our high productivity which historically is carried us through we we also are seeing you seeing growth of minority populations in some of the non metropolitan areas for example, Wilmer end and Worthington in and get an Indian cities, like alike Morehead most of the minority population of Minnesota lives in the Twin Cities. So overwhelmingly in the inner ring suburbs in the in the in the central City's however, we see this kind of growth occurring owl.Where do I usually connected to a different manufacturer or particular kind of kind of occupation? And that kind of growth is is Spring New Growth and in some of the area is Worthington for example head decline in population for very long. Of time until about the last three years and is growing largely because of increases in the minority population of these changes are not occurring with great. He's always found in some of these areas and in so they're Arthur second-round difficulties part of which has to do with the with housing part of it has to do with language in different cultures and different outlooks on things that but these are changes that that will probably continued well into the future as soon as our labor force growth slows down and we're simply a metal aging society and each year. There will be fewer and fewer people entering the labor force.Let's get her listeners involved in this Our Guest today Peter Joanne who is the state commissioner for trade and economic development and Tom Gillespie. Who is the state demographer breast collars from Minneapolis Marco had a question for a while back and I never even heard from the back one question. Why don't you take chances on some of the people I've applied out state to even out of the state itself, but I'm reasonably well-educated the graduate from the Technicolor system as a drafter, butI really don't seem to be wanted to give me a chance because I don't have the experience background and I seem to be the biggest problem you get to the old Catch-22 no job without experience. We don't get the expense without the job and it seems to be a lot of the killer that I've been getting a lot of people who are willing to do the job, but are not given the chance to do the job. Aren't you think companies in many cases are too picky. Are becoming a have traditionally been too picky maybe and should readjust the way they look at the pet their potential applicants given the fact there aren't all that many people to choose from any more. I guess I would have to say that that traditionally again when you're operating in a full employment economy and you're looking you have more skilled people available. The experience is probably going to be a Criterion that that many companies particular small companies small and medium-sized companies are look to it. I can't comment specifically on the colors of the situation but I would urge him to work through the Vo-Tech schools in the placement office is because as a draftsman, which I gather he is, I've got to believe that around the state and vertically in Greater Minnesota that there should be opportunities. Hopefully a for him to find if he if he works for the placement Office of the system what's happening with the wages given the relative shortage of people Are wages going up or what's happening now, they've actually been been fairly flat national league for some time at least the purchasing power of an hour's work. Now, why is that you would think that the Spider-Man would kick in at the wages would start going up but because they're just are fewer people to pick from in some part. I think Tom is it it doesn't reflect it all that the changing mix of our economy from a from a traditional manufacturing two more service companies. And there's for the preponderance of hiring is taken place. There's clearly some aspect of the changing mix. There's also increasing compensation occurring end in that the non-financial cash rewards in things like retirement plans and medical plans for the employer cost may be going up but the but the bad to take on wages is is not increasing are there number of theories one one has to do with the international competition. 4 rough in the in the labor market there. So we're becoming much more near National kind of society and hopefully competition with that was workers in throughout the world for rib for some of the jobs. Now that may not protect it and it may not pertain to any specific job, but over all that and that will tend to keep wages down. I should have had Gary that there are some bills in the legislature right now that maybe maybe if passed and signed could be counterproductive to the notion of of of of employment and that basically is the notion of raising the minimum wage and the bills that are suggesting that that there should be GIF corporations are going to receive any kind of aid from government that they should artificially have a minimum or a much higher floor level of wages that in fact could be counterproductive if in fact companies are forced to do. It may suggest that they would have to lay people off in order to accommodate that kind of requirement. There's a conjecture on both sides of the aisle and an economist argue both points of view, but it is up. It is a situation that is current right now Dave your question, please. Get a chemist job even though I've been trying I've gotten a couple. Like pilot plant temporary jobs. And right now I'm still looking but hey, I send out resumes all the time and cover letters with him and I just have a hard time getting interviews. I called back cuz all we had such an overwhelming response to our advertisement, you know, we just haven't gotten to all of them and a lot of times I won't even get the letter back again. Why are these there is there seems to be less disconnect again. We keep one of one hand shortage of skilled workers on the other hand. Obviously people out. There was some skills who can't seem to come get an interview. Why does this occur while I think I pointed out earlier and I think that in part is this the skewing is it worth in terms of of what we are producing a lot of our educational system and we don't have a matches were our process of being able to match and I don't think we're alone in the state of Minnesota and other states are fish in the same the same issue of being able to match the man was Why and we have people coming out of getting a Bachelors of Science and chemistry that basically there are no longer very few chemist jobs, but we certainly could use spot welders. Regretfully, the car is not does not have spot welding training and therefore is having a difficult time. In fact that the technical schools are are required to 24 East Apartment to annually publish the proportion of students that they graduate the previous year who were paying jobs in their chosen field and we may see more of them were even being to see some some universities guaranteeing that they're the bastards green for years and inability to get a job afterwards. So so there is there is some movement in terms of that performance my understanding the love you go back to the Hutchinson case that the kinds of stuff labor that they were looking for, but people Killed in in manufacturing Electronics area for seven eight nine ten dollars an hour kinds of jobs in jail that they weren't looking really forward 4 chemistry Engineers r r rub people like that. Now let's just merely from from the reporting from the newspapers and and and in the radio, but the the size of the labor force that they were looking for their they're clearly unemployed people in McLeod County where I can send or ice cubes in is but that number of unemployed people in number of people available to potentially work even if everybody was hard would still be several hundred short of what Hutchinson is talking about starting with and the the the total available labor pool unemployed labor pool in a four counties surrounding area is a smaller right now. Then what Hutchinson is planning on going to end in two or three years, so Are there really is a a problem of in this case of scale that to that that there's simply not enough people to to match the kind of growth in size that they were looking for in that pic of plant nor but your question, please unemployment rate from this morning what's available in the way of underemployment rate slows the classic cup PhD in chemistry that can't, that's a difficult one that virtually nothing. The only thing that I am familiar with was rather a technical academic book written by written by a social social demographer bunny with Cliff clogged who's at Penn State University in which she attempted. Measure unemployment unemployment rate since it is a difficult kind of thing to Major because it's it's it's not a a state of being that that it's not like unemployment where you don't have a job. It's it's Mar State of Mind more of a state of mind. Yeah, and and he did actually try to measure that I'd end and apparently with some success but to my knowledge there is no ongoing measurement of underemployment. Do we know is that a relatively new development this this business of underemployment or are we just come up with a fancy name for something that's existed for a long long time because I think it didn't in large part is a phenomenon that's been occurring here in the last certain the last five years throughout this country is we've watched particularly large companies, but it has a trickle-down effect large companies downsize to make themselves competitive. A World Market in which the labor component overseas else where is such a significant factor in terms of determining your overall cost and only your ability to compete and as as as the downsizing is taking place. It is not necessarily occurred what you used to be years ago at the bottom of the scale. It's taken place in in the in the middle of the of the scale in terms of both age as well as position and consequently, we have so many more people today in their 30s 40s 50s who had very responsible middle management jobs that are now out looking for work and are are when they can find work or are fundamentally underemployed. So I think it's if it's a phenomenon that is in large part endemic to what's going on in the globalization of archive of the world's economy Debbie your question, please If your previous color I am a woman in my early forties. I have a master's degree + works on a PhD. I recently been laid off from a state position second time in 12 months. And this is an upper middle management position and the previous position I held for 15 years and I'm out there feeding the streets competing with the younger workers that are definitely less qualified cuz I've got 20 years experience and I'm finding it very very frustrating despite my education and my qualifications of even getting my foot in the door with an interview. I'm tired of hearing that I'm overqualified and that all the questions that they ask me during the interviews are almost misleading of like Faithfully can tell when I graduated from college. What's how are you approaching and Minnesota those of us that have been in the workforce have all the experience and are now where we thought we were going to be set for life to support. Our families are finding ourselves competing out there in the job market. John Why don't I don't think there's an answer to that. I think it's the it's the way of the it's the way of the world. It's very regretful and I'm very empathetic to the car. But I think it underscores or is it again is if is example of what we've been talking about earlier this this noon of what in fact is taking place this mismatch this dislocation the fact that we've got people trained schooled agreed and so forth with basically, you're unable to find a new type of employment that that is going to be satisfying and productive and rewarding for it seems like the world is spinning ever-faster some would say spinning out of control but a thousand years ago. When are you did what your parents did and that was your field if you were a boy you did with your father. If your father was a blacksmith you who did blacksmithing and you basically learned the skill almost wrote in there would be very little likelihood of ever having any change in that. During a lifetime overtime weave weave weave grown into a society where at first that the the the the job changed in modified over roll over the over the day the workforce a lifetime of people now basically whole areas of skill and demand are being created in Lost within a year to attend in that disloyal that that creates dislocations the chances of a person starting with an occupation and staying with that occupation during your entire work for your becoming much much less. I can remember the in the early 70s to the Bureau of Labor Statistics published a list of what would be the fastest growing occupations in over the next 20 or 30 years. One of those won. The most rapidly growing was an occupation call keep puncher. When was the last time any osaki Punch machine most people under 30 of never even heard of it before. And yet and yet 20 Yen in 25 years ago that was considered to be one of the fastest growing occupation to the Future given this problem. I know offering of states and local governments are offering incentives businesses to come here is is be criticized a lot lately but given the situation with people looking for jobs that don't prepare to parently don't exist. Why is the state to spending a lot of money trying to lure a businesses in here throwing big money Adam move your plan here. We need we need jobs. Well, we're darned if we do and damned if we don't I ask we've watched here with Hutchinson Technology in the last several days. In fact, they headquartered company leave for Wisconsin. They left once before and went to South Dakota two weeks ago. We had a similar kind of situation where the state was a stand did respond and that was the creation of 500 jobs by the Dayton Hudson Corp. Haitian moving the job's not the people intended from from Oakland California and they could have come either here or gone to San Antonio Texas the state we felt it was important to create those jobs are bring those jobs here and we offered to provide some incentive that the the company could use for tickly and telling their board of directors of why would to come to Minnesota rather than Texas where would have been cheaper for them to operate the legislature is is reviewing this whole issue of of incentives and how it's to be used in 2N to whom should should incentives be offered. There is an argument that says it should be on a need basis. I would argue that it's not need it's basically job creation. If we go to a need-based you're going to have to get a whole lot of Bankers hired and state government to figure out credit worthiness. But any of that it's a it's a it's a good discussion a good debate and it couldn't be more highlighted by the fact that we've had Dayton Hudson. Weeks ago and now Hutchinson Technology today and based upon what you've heard from the collars come in jobs are highly valued and they will continue to be highly valued and they're created by those companies big and small that hopefully our expanding and doing well Dave your question. Please make a comment. And as far as a lot of that, I believe a lot of the jobs that are all things rock out State the the money theater offering that the employers are offering this isn't high enough for people to make the move or especially the skill. Blue collar worker because of skill blue collar worker and basically maybe go work for cash and make a lot more money in underground type economy. And that's just a comment. I'd like to make some okay alright to to manufacture for example to to locate or expand in something on metropolitan areas. There has long been intubated will it cost less to live outside of the metropolitan area in there? Probably some areas where there is a lower cost-of-living the legislative auditor did a study a few years back to try to measure the difference in cost of living between the Twin Cities and Restless that you didn't really didn't find a whole lot of a whole lot of difference Blaze basically blue jeans for your kids cost the same whether it's in the Twin Cities are real or Hutchinson some difference may exist in the cost of housing in that may even be that may be changing somewhat with the with the tire housing market, but it clearly that lower-wage that exists in knowing that Paul to Minnesota and into out the whole Upper Midwest in the in the more rural areas such as incentive is one of the reasons why we see more and more manufacturers locating in these areas Steve Vai your question, please move it to the AutoZone metro area primarily to get cheaper labor and to avoid the labor unions. And because of that I think that those jobs really have lost their attractiveness like like it was mention. The cost of living is the same every place if the if the benefits are there in the wages are is are they are going to attract a workers and I think maybe they're the chickens are coming home to roost for some of these companies to avoid the highway to take a look like Well, I can it's so hard to generalize we have watched. I think a couple of companies here headquartered in Minneapolis-Saint Paul who have built some out State operations princess in the service industry unitedhealthcare's operator claims processing system up in law office of International Falls North Western National life is going down to Jackson Minnesota even expanded down there. Now, those are two service-based companies. And once again, what they are looking at is more of the reliability and the stability of the workforce in those two towns here in Minneapolis-Saint Paul. There's a tremendous competition for entry-level service people particular in the financial services. So there's kind of chasing your own your own tail as it were by getting out State the stability that work forces. There are the people in Jackson or International Falls or are you going to stay there? And there is a there's a real economy to be gained. I am still I still believe that Does the state get smaller and smaller and smaller Transportation wise that there's going to be a little if any differentiation between basic wages and Surly basic fringes and so that it's a question of your lifestyle. Where do you want to live? Do you want to live in the metro area or do you want to go to Marshall or do you want to go to Thief River or what have you and I think that's that trend is while it's not overly a parrot. I think it's it's a survey in the making terms of the wages. Do you see the Twin City area wages coming down or the out State wages going up? Because we don't live in a vacuum. It's difficult to answer cuz we don't we don't exist in a vacuum that that we are part of the national economy were also very much part of the worldwide economy Hutchinson Technology is is clearly competing worldwide. They they're not just competing locally. In fact, they're primarily not competing look like that's true of many of the other other businesses that we have the plants. I believe that that that Hutchinson is playing to occupy our or at least the labor force that they're planning on on picking up in Eau Claire Wisconsin exist there a largely because they super computer company had difficulty competing worldwide. And so there is there is very much a worldwide competition in you know, I would guess it there would be I would suspect that there will be some Equalization wages between Metropolitan non-metropolitan. But as to which direction It Go I think he's going to depend very much apart on on what happens to this to this overall technology or the silver all worldwide competition the end and they should go to the productivity of the workers in Minnesota, I guess today Tom Gillespie, who is the state demographer Eddie Peter July who is the State academic development commissioner talking about the force the labor force in state of Minnesota where the workers are where the jobs are why they match doesn't always work out the way it should David is on the line for St. Louis Park Lancer. I know that Robert reisch has been following this labor Trend and that he had to several reports on it is long ago is 4 years ago, one of the points that he made us that the other still seems to be this disconnect between me and my skilled labor force in what employers are looking for. What what efforts have been made to connect the local King? Colleges and trade schools to the employers to try to match that need and whose interest is it to do so and who will most likely spearheaded if it's not currently a priority right now. Well, I think the part the answer is at The Vocational Technical system has a has a mandate in their Charter to to to provide the connect between their graduates in the end. The the employer-based there's a smaller program. It's been quite interesting to watch it's called a job skills partnership and Essence they've acted like a marriage broker as between a vocational technical school and an employee who has a need for a specific kind of skill. And in that instance, what they do is they line each other up so that Wendy the individuals go through the training they know that at the end of the training there are specific jobs from a specific employer awaiting them as they as they matriculate and it's a small program it gets a small appropriation, but it's been very effective and and regretfully I think in love in the in the chatter and in the in the The discussions are going on that program. I think it's ER visit as a real model, but between the system itself and their placement process as well as the job skills partnership. There are two of two agencies or two coaches being taken are many companies willing to do their own training to take in my otherwise bright hard-working people, but the people who don't have the specific skills at a company needs our luck. Well will teach you how to be a spot welder here, but you know in 6 months most import from my experience and travels most employers would prefer that what is being are you today is make sure that when you send me a worker that that worker has had some basics in terms of arithmetic ability to tip to arithmetic Lee compute to be able to have the basic skills of of working getting to work on time, etcetera, etc. Etc. That's what they ask more than anything else and then they will say we will train the workers on the on the spot. Secretary rice has come to recognize that the greatest opportunity for upgrading and for training lies not in the public system, but in the private sector itself, which is more than willing to attempt to do so and has programs ready to go. Not just the big companies but the small job shops are there around the state? They prefer to have that themselves they can train them right there on the job and and get the high level of response that they would hope for time. Is there any from the studies that have been done is there seem to be any correlation between a person's education or skill level and there and their Mobility their willingness to move around the state of Minnesota in search of jobs or is that remain at ours is there no record for people with more education to to move from the non-farm areas to the to the metropolitan areas pic of the Twin Cities. With college degrees for example part of that is part of that is at the other number of universities in the Twin Cities and they're also jobs for four people with Advanced degrees that may not exist in some of the smaller smaller communities. So they're there has long been a long been a movement of people with higher levels of educational pain to the central City's back to the phone. Jim is on the line for Minneapolis. Go ahead and I wonder what the outlook for that kind of feel is I know that for my particular job as long as the place that I'm working at doesn't fold. And as long as it's not possible to talk to computer and get the ask you out the other end then my job is going to last but what's the Outlook in general for a consumer? Service over the phone the customer wants to know about this and that and the other and you sit at the phone bank and you tell him because you have the information with you. Might be a little little specific for our our discussion today, but this really specific but but in general, I think these are there is an increasing demand for what I would call information broker so that the people that that provide information or provide the go-between between people, you know who are seeking information in people who have it as as was mentioned earlier that you know, the job skills partnership for example is is trying to bring this kind of linkage together. There's clearly more activity and related to things like the internet online computer systems helplines whole variety of ways of obtaining information and that seems to be one area where where there is a fairly steady growth right now Marcus your question. Please call it from Madison, Minnesota. Dresser, that was made earlier about the people hurt businesses manufacturing companies looking for welders out in my area. We have various a manufacturing facilities, but the conditions are less than healthy and the wages are extremely low. So I'd like to make a plea to any manufacturers out there that want to build a People based business come out here pay the people with their worth and there's more than enough people and more than enough places. Can you give me an idea of what you would consider to be a good decent hourly wage industry doing various things so myself, I could command the 15 to $20 an hour in the metro area and you're likely to get paid what? best maybe 10 that's quite a difference quite a spread. Is there a is there anyway that to address that kind of a problem? Obviously the company you will pay as little as possible. But that again leaves the skilled worker kind of high and dry does it not. Well as the Gypsy the labor market ages grows more slowly in in metropolitan areas. That should help drive up labor cost. But again, it's a very complex worldwide Market that we exist in so it's it's not all at all easy to to you and how to get a vision of what what the future looks like. It has a lot of the laws of supply and demand essentially been repealed at this point. So that companies rather than raising wages will simply move to another area where there are few more workers. I don't know. I don't think that's the case. I think that for a company to pick up and move it's a very big dramatic expensive proposition how to expand as Hutchinson check is done. That's a different that's a different set of Dynamics the caller indicated that basically there's a 1/3 differential between what he might get here in the metro area and what he might get out. Madison that is as big a differential as I've ever ever heard. Usually there could be a dollar to a dollar and a half maybe 10 to 15% might be the leader of the spread between Metro and unnatural. But the other thing that you have to be at Thomas point out, it isn't just the real that the dollar that take home wager that the gross earnings. It's all of the additional fringes that would be added or not added to that base wage. That is so much in demand right now for tickly with to income with it that takes place throughout our economy. Tom your question, please instances of big companies not locating here in Minnesota seems to be tied to some Education or whatever, it's not the word. I'm looking for here. But with the with certain people in the department trade and economic development for instance not seem to have an argument with someone there. And so they decided they're going to move to Wisconsin or that's the way this seems like the article was written and the same thing with Gino now, it's Gino up in the Iron Range with that food processing plant. He seemed to have an ongoing fight with the detailed that they're on and off again. Sometimes he locates here and sometimes he doesn't he doesn't but I'm just wondering why is there this level of Education. That's currently being talked about in the paper. Thank you. Well I asked when do I stop beating my wife Zach type up. First of all, let me clarify the relationship that mr. Paulucci is is has is not with detailed. It's where the I Triple R A B. We're not involved at all. I think the other question has to do with Hutchinson Tech. We weren't even involved with Hutchinson Tech. They were involved with three communities they preferred Not to be involved with a state because that was the philosophy of history in their their CEO. I would like to think that our our our mission is basically net new job creation. So if we're agitating people, we we certainly a need to be ever so far our hands bank because it's just the other way around our orientation to try to serve the client and find a either a location or a building or of a space to expand or two to move into and if the caller has some specific circumstances, I sure would like to have him let me know right away. But I think in the main are record has been has been pretty strong and terms of being very client-oriented and plant driven. Would you favor are troll Nike over at the Federal Reserve his proposal that the federal government ban the use of tax incentives for lowering businesses. So that days actually create on the level National playing field in terms of trying to buy businesses Gary. It's the only way it'll ever happen. I'm not sure will happen that way because Congress Right now is is on a different tack does it work but the only way that this interstate rivalry and outbidding and outlandish outbidding that's that's taking place. And you saw what St. Louis was doing to get the Los Angeles Rams to move. We watch this and just complice a situation. The only way that that is going to come to a halt is basically threw some kind of federal law forbidding it absent that anyone Governor is absolutely reluctant and perhaps foolish to take the first step to pull back because if he or she does do that that state is going to be in serious Jeopardy in in terms of competing with the other 47 lower States or or or or other communities next college from St. Cloud. Thank you very much. I'm 46 years old. I guess I never be saying this, but I guess I'm looking at a younger generation than myself and I'm a healthcare provider. Saint Cloud and I I am flight between 10 and 15 employees. My biggest problem is finding employees going to work. It's kind of a sad commentary Honor Society, but believe it or not in my office. I try to find people that are basically ruined and farm farm individual. I guess. I have a comment on your your people on the show. How do we change? These kids are really want to work for dollar. Thank you miss you is is that in fact, there are few or younger people out there the graduating classes High School graduating classes of the last 3 years 4 years have been the smallest release since the baby bust of the depression graduated from from high school. And now they the gratitude that graduating class next year will be a little bit bigger and where we're going to be in a little boom. Let's Will be more people available more young people are available in the labor force, but it's not going to be anything like in the past that the growth rate is slowing down employers or simply have less Choice school mismatches will become more of a critical issue Geographic mismatches will become more critical and I think we're just beginning to see this this trend take place send and I are rubbed our projections for the future vote for for Minnesota and and even National Economic forecast for the United States indicate a a slowing down in the growth of the economy largely due to slowing in the growth of the labor force. So we're looking at a severe labor shortage. Is that too strong or will there be spotting mismatches? They'll be areas in which there is substantial mismatch insufficient workers of a particular skill. In other areas. There will be excess workers with that same skill. So they'll be they'll be more of us more potential for four mismatches. But in the long run, you're basically you this labor force is slowing down its growth and we expect to see the Minnesota's labor force camp out somewhere between 2015 and 2020. We're really part of a national trend on this where little bit ahead because we've been so successful. Most women in Minnesota are employed by the vast majority of men are employed. Our participation rates are higher are unemployment rates are lower than National. So we've been extremely successful and so we're beginning we're among the first to see this trend to but the but the rest of country spell follow Time but we have call time for one more call her my run on the line from Pipestone. You get the last question conversation since then but being out here in southwest Minnesota was kind of ironic that with a company that was looking for a hundred employees. I was trying to hire them for 5:25 an hour. But yeah when I come in at the cities that same day on Highway 5, I got my Chanhassen and Burger King was offering a job as an I cook for 7:50 an hour and there's a greater disparity between Metro and I'll treat them. What's your panelist are letting on to any idea why that would be Like I've got a number of ideas or some of it to anyone quick one before we run here. Operation where labor rates are laugh. They can obtain the skilled workers. So in many cases of Manufacturers are trying to get the best of both worlds and it's not working wages and non-menthol to Minnesota are substantially lower and in some cases the differences between Metropolitan counties in non-metropolitan counties are in the range of 2 to 1 Norma's differences in in household incomes, and those differences actually have increased over the last 15-20 years. The the question will be is is that you had earlier was about the future. What do we expect to happen in the future and partly we are moving into a more competitive labor market environment. There will be some areas where employers will simply not be able to find the labor that they need and they'll move out creating creating a hole and increase unemployment because of an inability to find labor. In other side and Plum players will bring you a new capital new equipment to make the people he just two people more productive and that could lead to higher wages and others they they may locate in a different place for import labor. All these are responses that we're likely to see in the future. The problem is is that it's that is sore lumpy. Yeah firm in Hutchinson Minnesota that employs 3,000 people is a very large firm. It is for that area has a huge firm and and what they do will have an impact on the area and their decisions will be made doing that larger impact we're out of time but I really appreciate your thoughts on the subject, I guess today. I eat Peter Gillette who is the commissioner of trade and economic development for the state of Minnesota and Thomas Gillespie. Who is the state demographer for the state of Minnesota?