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GARY EICHTEN: Well, both major political parties, the DFL and I-R parties have interesting primary contests this year for both governor and US Senate. So this summer we've asked all the major candidates for both offices to stop by for an hour so you have a chance to get to know the candidates a little better and find out where they stand on the issues. As we said, all the races are interesting, but it's probably fair to say that the most interesting race of them all is the contest for the Republican nomination for governor.

Usually, an incumbent governor like Arne Carlson would have no trouble getting renominated, but former Saint Peters state representative Allen Quist has already beaten Carlson for the I-R party endorsement and could end up making some history by winning the nomination as well. Mr. Quist, it's something of a cliche, the business he stopped by the studio. In your case, it's heroic that you're here with the cast on the foot. You broke your foot and ankle.

ALLEN QUIST: Broke a bone in my foot and in my ankle in the Cloquet parade, and is one of those freakish things that if you tried to do, you could never do. But I was in the wrong place in the wrong time, halfway jumping off the curb in a half run. I was getting behind and wanted to miss a couple of kids on the street.

I didn't notice that there was a crack in the street, about 2 inches wide, and half of my foot hit street, and the other half didn't hit anything, and the rest is history. But the good thing is, the two broken bones are both in the same foot, and they're both going to heal at the same time, and it's really coming well.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, we expected a lively campaign, didn't know it was going to get like this.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, [LAUGHTER] as I've said, I'm convinced that I can beat the governor with one foot tied behind my back, and here we go.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, now the poll out today in the Star Tribune WCCO poll shows Carlson with a fairly comfortable lead over you about 19 points. And then there's only 7% of the Republicans say they don't have an opinion, so there's not a lot of slack there.

ALLEN QUIST: Yeah. Well, I hope that Carlson is very comfortable with those numbers and others. If I were him, I would not be comfortable. But I'm just delighted with the results of the poll for a couple of reasons.

One is that the poll reveals that my support among women is actually stronger than my support among men, and I think that's real healthy. And I'm not surprised, but I think that's very significant. And the second thing that I'm very happy about is that the poll respondents really were divided into two categories, one category is people who lean Republican, and people that lean Republican are not likely to vote in the primary, that's just the way it is.

The other category is people who are Republican or say, I am a Republican, among the people who say that I am a Republican, the gap between myself and the governor is only 11 points at this point. And three months ago it was approximately 30 points, six weeks ago, it was about 16, and now we're down to 11. So it's going in our direction very rapidly and we're just delighted with where we are at this point.

GARY EICHTEN: Previous polls had indicated that Arne Carlson could beat virtually all the Democrats, and that you'd lose to virtually all the Democrats. Is it in the best interests of the party long term for you to win this primary?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, we're convinced that it is. But early polls really are more on name ID than anything else. People don't get real interested until about Labor Day, and then they start looking at the issues. And we're convinced we will do well at that point in time.

But it seems to me, the big issue is this that the Republican Party has been the minority party for 26 years, ever since party designation came in. And it's my view that, that has happened for two reasons. The one is that the DFL party does have a broader base. It's more of a Coalition Party. Republican Party has had too narrow of a base.

The second reason, I think, is that the Republican Party has not been enough of a grassroots voice of the people party. So I as a candidate do intend as much as possible to somewhat change the image and the nature of the Republican Party. I think we need to be much more of a broad coalition, and I think we need to be much more grassroots voice of the people type of party. If we can do that, then we can become the majority party. And I believe that's what we need to do.

GARY EICHTEN: Now, we keep hearing that Arne Carlson has raised a lot of money already, is there enough left over for you?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, the governor does have a big edge in fundraising. There's no getting around it, but our fundraising has been going really quite well. And it's one of those things, in Minnesota, I don't think you can buy elections. And I think people notice who's spending the more money, and they probably tend to favor somebody who's spending less.

And I think the Wellstone Boschwitz contest four years ago was a classic example. Rudy Boschwitz had something like $7 million to spend. And Wellstone at this point in the campaign, had very little. But the public picks up on that, and they tend to side with the person who is the little guy and the person who's the grassroots candidate, and there's a lot of power in that.

GARY EICHTEN: We're going to get to our calls in just a second here and find out what our listeners are interested in, what issues they're interested in, but I want to get from you if you could. I know there are a lot of things that you'd like to do if you're governor, but what do you see as the two major priorities that you have?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, the first priority is really an overall priority, and that is to have more of a citizen-oriented governor and move in the direction of more of a citizen-oriented state government. The individuals who are controlling state government today really are career politicians. You go right down the line and that's their life.

I think the career politicians see the world differently than private citizens. And just as an example of that, a career politician sees a problem and the answer is always the same. It's let's have another government program. A private citizen looks at things differently.

Private citizen looks at a problem and first asks, is there something in the private sector, private business, private individuals, families, or the like that can be utilized to solve that problem? So I think this is the biggest overall issue that we need to have private citizens continually moving in and moving out, I might add, into state government.

What I think is the second biggest issue is that, in fact, state and local taxes, but I'll just deal with state taxes here are increasing much more rapidly than the Minnesota economy's ability to pay. And one way to look at it is this way, that state government is growing twice as fast as the private sector, and in the long haul, that's going to harm us because there is a negative correlation between tax increases and economic growth.

So the first thing that I intend to do is put a cap on state spending to essentially set a limit, which will be this, and I have proposed it already that state and local taxes cannot exceed 21% of personal income, and we're rapidly going past the 21% figure right now. So I think we need to bring that back to 21% set that as a cap, and then allow the private sector to grow and develop the way it needs to.

And I think that's the big state policy issue, and I'm very comfortable with the position that I have on it. And I think virtually every economist would agree that what I'm saying is right.

GARY EICHTEN: Our guest today is Allen Quist, who is seeking the I-R party's nomination for governor. Steven from Plymouth is on the line, or is this our caller from Shoreview?

RON: This is Ron. Yes, I have a question for Mr. Quist. I'm a big believer in the citizens of the state being very intelligent and I believe that they will make the right decision if they're given all the facts about the two different candidates. Along that lines, is Mr. Quist working to get a debate or a series of debates in line with Governor Carlson so the citizens can see an A/B test, see both candidates and where they stand face to face on the issues?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, thank you, Ron. Yes, I and my campaign are working very aggressively to try to set up a series of debates. In fact, we have proposed that we have a series of seven debates throughout the state and that six of these deal with specific topics, like one would be taxes, one would be health care, one would be crime so that we could focus in detail on the issues that people are really interested in.

We're hoping that the governor is going to respond with some kind of affirmative answer, but I'll have to say I'm pretty discouraged at this point with the governor's response because the governor and his team continually is talking about quote unquote, "a debate." And I just don't think that's a good starting point. I think we need more than one debate.

And I think we should have several debates in greater Minnesota, partly because greater Minnesota tends to get left out. And I think involving the citizens in greater Minnesota in some issue-oriented debates would be extremely healthy. So we're going to keep pushing, but I'll have to say I'm getting a little discouraged at this point.

GARY EICHTEN: But if you were Arne Carlson, the incumbent governor, well-known around the state, and you were being challenged by a person who isn't all that well-known, I mean, would you be eager to have seven debates and give your challenger that much publicity?

ALLEN QUIST: I really would, partly because I don't need publicity, my name recognition is very high throughout the state. And from my point of view, I very much enjoy debate. Of course, there is the fact that I was a debate coach at the college level for seven years, I mean, I am real comfortable in debate. But I enjoy debate, and I think debate is a wonderful avenue for getting issues out and having some real good give and take.

Another good thing about public debates is that after every public debate, the citizens who are there have an opportunity to come up and talk with you and give you their input. And I find being able to listen to the citizens and get their ideas, their suggestions, I find that to be at least as valuable as participating in the debate. I just think debate is really healthy, I think it's an important part of the Democratic process.

We think back in history, for instance, to the Lincoln-Douglas debates or the Kennedy-Nixon debates, and these were classic episodes in the Democratic history of our country. And I think we need to emphasize that and I think we need to recreate that as much as we can.

GARY EICHTEN: Now, I think Steve from Plymouth is back on the line with his question. Hi.

STEVEN: Hi. Yes, this is Steven from Plymouth. Now, it's been said, I don't know whether falsely or accurately that Mr. Quist has certain ideas about genetics. I would just like to hear him give his position on this, perhaps dispel some of the myths, or affirm essentially what he believes is the relationship between behavior, personality, and so forth, and genetics.

GARY EICHTEN: This is the whole genetic predisposition question.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, I thank you, Steven. First of all, let me refer back very quickly again to the poll results this morning, which I'm very delighted with because the fact that I have more support today among women than among men demonstrates that the misconceptions that the Carlson people were trying to put out about me has been dispelled. And the misconception that they were trying to put out is that I somehow thought that men were superior to women or something on that line, which is absolutely not true.

I, in fact, believe that men and women are equal, that men and women are equal before the law, are equal in talent, are equal in value, you name it. At the same time, there are some differences, and I believe that we have to recognize that people can have differences and still be equal. And I think it is somewhat similar to a situation, for instance, on a baseball team. And I'll use a baseball team as an analogy, because we had a pitcher last night who threw a perfect game.

But on a baseball team, one person is a pitcher and another person as a catcher, another person plays first base. And I think it's a mistake if a pitcher says, I think I'm better than the catcher, or if the catcher says, I think I'm better than the first baseman or whatever, that we have to recognize that we can play somewhat different roles with somewhat different abilities, but still be equal overall.

Insofar as genetics is concerned, I taught in the field of psychology for 17 years, and it is true that the field of psychology is moving in the direction of recognizing that genetics has more of an influence on who we are than had been previously thought. The nature, nurture, or the environment genetics debate has been going on forever, but the movement today is in the area of genetic influence.

So when it comes to the matter of the family, and I happen to think that the family is one of the most neglected areas of governmental policy, and maybe I should say one of the most persecuted areas, when you look at our tax policy, our welfare policy, and the things like this. When you look at the matter of the family, I think it's quite clear that there is a strong genetic component to the way the family is set up. And let's begin with the fact that men and women are attracted to each other. Clearly, that's primarily a genetic thing.

I have, as everybody knows, a number of children. I have never encouraged, at least as far as I could tell, any of my boys to be attracted to girls, and I've never encouraged any of my girls, as far as I could tell, to be attracted to boys. It just seems to happen. It's a natural phenomenon.

Does not happen 100% of the time. No getting around it. But still, there's clearly a strong natural component there. So I would argue that the basis of the family, which is the fact that men and women are attracted to one another, is more genetic than anything else.

Certainly there are environmental factors too, but there's a large genetic component. The fact that we tend to bind ourselves together in marriage, I don't think is simply an invention of somebody who thought, wow, this would be a neat thing to do. I think the tendency of us to bind ourselves together in marriage has a biological or genetic basis to it.

Similarly, our tendency to want to have children and it has some natural basis to it. And if anybody decides, I don't want to be married, I don't want to have children or whatever, that's fine. It doesn't matter to me, but clearly, there are these tendencies.

Insofar as the organization of the home itself is concerned, you can simply observe cross-culturally and in our country too that the home generally is organized where in some form or fashion people will say that the husband is the head of the home. And it's my understanding, for instance, on the last census, that 93% of married couples on the census identified the father or the man as the head of the home. There's nothing wrong with that.

Now, that doesn't work in all cases. And in cases where people choose to organize themselves differently, I say it doesn't matter to me and what works is fine. It doesn't always work. But I think we have to recognize that when we talk about an organizational pattern in the home, it says nothing about inferiority, it doesn't even say anything about leadership.

And it certainly says nothing about one person being more valuable, better, smarter, or anything like that. It's a political order. But I should also mention that and I am a religious person, I don't go around campaigning on this, but I am a religious person, and I have very strong feelings about the role of a husband in the home.

And it is my very, very firm conviction that the role of the husband in the home is primarily a role of sacrifice, that is that it is the role of the husband to put the welfare of his family, that means his wife, if he has one, his children, if he has them, and it can be extended family, it might be his mother or it might be others. It's his role to put the welfare of his family above his own welfare.

The role of the head of the house is a role of sacrifice, it's a role of commitment, and it's a role of giving his time, his talents, his energies to the welfare of his family. There's nothing glitzy about it, there's nothing arrogant about it, there's no ego trip about it. It's a role of sacrifice. And if we recognize this role of sacrifice, then I think it all fits together. But that's key to recognizing how it works.

GARY EICHTEN: Given your views on, well, the differences between men and women, and so on, is there any state laws that should be changed to reflect your viewpoints on this?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, I don't know, but if there are any laws that discriminate against women in any way, I would want to change those because I insist that the first principle of good law is that everybody is absolutely equal. Let me mention too that one of the ironies of this is that I did not begin my campaign as a governor out of nowhere, or independently. Really I was part of a search committee to try to find a governor candidate.

And a number of the people that we talked to that we hoped would be governor candidates were women. And if any one of those women would have consented to be a candidate for governor, I would have been backing them, that person, and working for that person in that circumstance. Rightly or wrongly, unfortunately or fortunately, the other individuals we talked to for one reason or another didn't want to be candidates, and it ended up being me.

But I would be very happy to support a woman for governor, a woman for president. I think it's totally an issue that has nothing to do with being male or female. And I happen to think too that Maggie Thatcher has been one of the greatest leaders of the 20th century, and I wish she were in Minnesota running for governor, because if she were, I'd be back in my farm and I think would do real well. I think we'll do well now too.

GARY EICHTEN: What do you think about Hillary Clinton?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, the only problem I think with Hillary is that philosophically, I think she's going in the wrong direction. But I certainly have a lot of respect for any woman that's a strong leader. By the way, my wife, Julie, is a very, very strong leader, and is a very strong person in all kinds of respects.

And the fact of the matter is, well, I very much like all people, but I particularly like women who are strong leaders. And I tell you my wife, Julie, is one of the strongest leaders in the state of Minnesota and I compliment her for it. She's quite the lady.

GARY EICHTEN: Our guest today is, I-R gubernatorial candidate Allen Quist. Dennis from Minneapolis is on the line. Hi.

DENNIS: Good afternoon, Mr. Quist.

ALLEN QUIST: Hi, Dennis.

DENNIS: The most important person in my family is my domestic partner. And I'm going to as soon as I get off the phone with you, get back to the hospital to see him. He left intensive care yesterday and is doing much better.

And I'm curious, he has an HIV-related illness and I would like to know your viewpoint of the responsibility of the state enacting effectively and compassionately toward people with HIV-related illnesses or any illnesses. And your personal reaction to HIV illnesses, and what would you do if your child came to you somehow and said, father, I have HIV, how would you react?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, thank you, Dennis. I really believe that the HIV infection and AIDS and AIDS-related diseases are among the greatest tragedies of our day. Apparently, something like a million people in our country carry the HIV virus. And apparently at this point in time, insofar as we know, there simply is no prospect for cure. So it's an immense human tragedy.

I believe that the state of Minnesota has a moral obligation to try to help people who need help. And that's true of people with a wide variety of illnesses, and that includes HIV, it includes all other illnesses. I also believe that the state of Minnesota has an obligation to try to give a sense of direction.

We have to face the facts here too that HIV in Minnesota is transmitted primarily through two means. The one is IV drug use and the other is through sexual activities. I mean, that's the hard facts of it. We have no way to cure AIDS and AIDS-related illnesses, so we have to focus our efforts on prevention.

To do that, it is my position that we should give any and all information on any and all subjects, and I think you're always doing the right thing when you're giving information. We also have an obligation to discourage that behavior that lends itself to HIV transmission. And that behavior includes IV drug use, and it includes homosexual practices.

It's not enough to just give people clean needles or ways of protecting them from transmission. You have to also get into the matter of behavior because this is a behavior-related disease. We have to encourage people to engage in practices that don't transmit HIV.

As you know probably, I'm a staunch advocate of abstinence-based sex education programs. And in doing that, I'm not suggesting one standard for people who are homosexual and another standard for people who are heterosexual. That's not where I'm coming from. But the fact of the matter is that the abstinence-based programs are the only programs that work.

The programs that just give people information do not work, and that's according to the studies by Alan Guttmacher Institute, Planned Parenthood, and the like, they just don't work. The way you have programs that work is to give people a sense of direction, and that means an ethical direction. It's similar to our antidrug program.

20 years ago, our antidrug program just gave people information and said, hey, make up your own minds. It didn't work to do it that way. Then a few years ago, we began to have the courage to say to people, just say no to drugs, and we found that program worked much, much better.

The same is true with sex education. The abstinence-based approach is the approach that worked. And we have today, I'm convinced, a situation in our state and in our nation where the opposition to the abstinence-based approach is based on philosophical or ideological grounds.

And I don't think methods, whether it's methods of sex education or medicine or anything else, I don't think that methods should be based on philosophical grounds. I think methods should be strictly a matter of what works and what's going to do the job. And I think if we can agree on that, that it's a question of what works, then I think we can make a lot more progress in terms of how to deal with a wide variety of diseases, and that includes AIDS and HIV.

GARY EICHTEN: Back to the phones. Deanne of Coon Rapids is on the line with a question. Hello.

DEANNE: Hello, Mr. Quist.

ALLEN QUIST: Hi, Deanne.

DEANNE: I met you recently at the 6th District endorsing convention at McGuire's. You were talking with several people out in the lobby and had recently returned from a trip to the Iron Range where you said at that time, one of the issues most important to the people on the Iron Range was the pervasive nature of the gay and lesbian lifestyle.

Whereupon a gentleman next to me, said, well, we've buried a few of those in the woods, and a laughter went around the group, including you. I want to tell you, Mr. Quist, I was appalled after having just seen Schindler's List, heard about My Lai. Could you explain to me your response?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, you're bringing up something to me that in the first place, I have no recollection of. I was at the 6th District Convention, I mean, you're talking about some private conversation that I have no recollection of. But if the implication is that I think that anyone who dies of any disease, including HIV is humorous, you are absolutely wrong. I do not think that it is humorous, I think that it is tragic.

At the same time, any conversation has a certain amount of social dynamic and very often you have three or four people talking at the same time. I strongly suspect you're misreading something there, but like I say, I have recollection of what you're saying. But HIV and AIDS is a tremendous tragedy, and there are many other tragedies out there.

If you talk to people who know me well and talk to any of them, talk to my wife, talk to my family, talk to my campaign workers, you will find that there is nothing in any way sadistic about me. I try to be optimistic, but I do not enjoy anyone's pain. That's just not me.

You'll find that I'm a very sensitive person, a very caring person. I'm a person who has been through great personal tragedy, greater personal tragedy than many of us will ever know. And I do not have a sadistic bone in my body, I'm a person who cares an awful lot about anybody and everybody, and that's just who I am. But ask anybody who knows me, and they're going to tell you that that's true.

GARY EICHTEN: Do you support the inclusion of homosexuals as a protected class under the State Human Rights Act?

ALLEN QUIST: I do not, Gary. And the reason that I do not is because it is my position that all people should be on exactly the same playing field. That is, everybody should be treated exactly the same before the law.

If any group of people argues that it should be set up as a protected class, and that means a higher level of protection than people generally, then I think that group of people has to argue convincingly that as a group of people, they are the recipients of observable documented discrimination. And that has to be I think, documented in terms of lower standards of living or lower levels of promotion in businesses or things like that. And that case has never been made.

And until that case is made, I don't think you can build the case that any class of people deserves more protection than people generally. I really think that's the issue. I think you can build that case in terms of racial issues, and I think you can build that case in terms of gender issues.

I don't think you can build that case in terms of sexual orientation or sexual activity. But I think that's where the discussion should be focused, and unfortunately hasn't been focused there. But that's where I think it should be focused.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's go back to the phones, hear from another listener.

JOHN: Hello.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes. Go ahead sir.

JOHN: This is John from Golden Valley. I have a question about your ability to work with the state legislature. Now, it's well-known that when you were in the State House, people in your own party even felt that you were somewhat difficult to work with, that you were focused on one issue, and also that during the I-R convention this year, almost all of the state senators and state representatives are backing Arne Carlson. And so my question is, were you to become governor, what would your relationships be with the legislature?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, John, first of all, you're operating on two faulty premises. And the second one that you mentioned was that at the State Convention, virtually all the state senators and all the state representatives were backing the governor, that's absolutely not true. I didn't keep track of the senators, but insofar as the representatives were concerned, I think there were 7 out of 50 that consented to go up on the stage behind the governor and to make some physical show of support.

I might be one or two off on that but I think that's the right number, that there were seven.

GARY EICHTEN: It does seem, though, like the governor has pretty broad based support among the I-R caucus at the legislature.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, that's true, but it's way overstated. And the reason it's overstated is because I have had many of the senators and legislators come to me and say, I support you. If you want me to go public in supporting you, I'd be happy to do so. My answer has always been, I don't think that it's useful for top level elected officials to get involved in other races. And for that reason, I have always said, I just don't think that that's what we ought to be doing.

I don't think the public wants to see a candidate being touted by other elected officials. I think you send the wrong message because I think what a candidate should do is a candidate should go to the voters or the delegates or whomever is going to be casting the vote and build their case there. Similarly, I have been asked to give endorsements for a wide variety of candidates, some of them, by the way, outside of Minnesota.

My answer always is, you don't need my endorsement, go talk to the people, go talk to the voters. The House Iowa caucus, and let me call a spade a spade here, because I think it's an issue that needs to be clarified, the House Republican caucus before the state convention was asked too as a caucus, give its support to Arne Carlson. The House Iowa caucus, by a very lopsided vote, decided against that. I think they made the right decision.

But insofar as working with the legislature is concerned, the fact of the matter is, I was a legislator for six years, and the fact of the matter is, I have an excellent track record in working with other legislators. And I would say one of the good examples of that is the fact that I was chief author of the bill that created the Minnesota Department of Jobs and Training, and that was a remarkable accomplishment as one of the best changes that we have made in state government in the last 10 years.

To get that bill through, I had to negotiate with Republicans and Democrats, and to be real honest, I had to negotiate, especially with other Republicans who couldn't catch the vision on the importance of a jobs and training program. I was given essentially no chance of passing that program, and in fact, made the agreements, I won't say deals, but the agreements that it took to get the bill through. It's a major accomplishment.

Let me just mention one other thing. Two years later, when the Republicans were back in the minority, I was asked by the chairman of the Judiciary Committee to be author, main author of the committee bill on the living will. Now, that is unheard of for a chairman of one party to ask somebody who's a minority party member to be chairman of the committee bill, it absolutely does not happen.

And the reason I was asked to do that is because the chairman of that committee recognized, number 1, that I had expertise in the area. Number 2, that I could work with legislators in both parties. In fact, I had a compromise position on that bill worked out with a number of interest groups, a number of people. We had the votes in the House to pass the bill.

The problem was that the Senate author couldn't get the support in the Senate, something I had no control over. But that is my track record as an excellent track record, I'd be happy to run on it any time. Don't take at face value what some of the Carlson supporters say about my working with people in the legislature. The fact of the matter is, I know how to work with people, I know how to compromise. Politics is the art of the possible, and that's my philosophy, and that's how you get things done.

GARY EICHTEN: Our guest today is Allen Quist, who is challenging Arne Carlson for the I-R party nomination, and I-R voters will make a decision September 13. Terrance from Duluth is on the line with a question. Hello.

TERRANCE: If politics is the art of the possible, Mr. Quist, how as governor would you propose to deal with the rapidly growing problem of crime and violence in our inner cities, namely Minneapolis, Saint Paul, and Duluth? And I ask that question in light of your promise to cut $1 billion out of the state budget over four years, which seems to be a fiscally irresponsible promise, a cheap shot to garner votes. Would you explain how you deal with crime and violence and our other serious problems, and still cut $1 billion from the budget? What programs would you cut?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, first of all, Terrence is not a cheap shot, and it's not buying votes. The fact of the matter is, this is my position and I'm not kidding anybody with it, I'm convinced that this is exactly what we have to do. But insofar as the inner city is concerned, let me be very blunt.

If we continue to raise taxes in Minnesota, we are going to make the problems in the inner city worse. And one of the big reasons for that is because high taxes in our inner cities are driving out some of our best jobs. Somebody has to pay those taxes, and it's going to fall on businesses to a large degree, it's going to fall on property taxes to a large degree, it's going to fall on rental property to a large degree. And that's going to be counterproductive to the inner city.

We have tried to deal with our inner city problems with higher taxes and more government programs, it has not worked. And I think you could argue effectively that it's probably made the problem worse. If we're going to solve the problem of crime in the inner city, here's what we have to do.

Number 1 is we have to start bringing taxes down, and that includes property taxes, that includes especially property taxes on rental property, commercial, and industrial property, where we are among the highest in the nation. We may still be number 1, I know we're right up there. If we're going to hold these jobs in the inner city, we absolutely have to do that.

Now, we also, I believe, need to create enterprise zones in areas where we've got high unemployment and through the enterprise zones, I think we have to even additionally lower the tax bite so that we can bring businesses in and we can keep them there. And that's an absolute essential part to dealing with the crime problem.

Now, the other three things that I'm convinced we have to do are these, number 1 is we have to start to rebuild the family because the breakdown in the family is the number one cause in crime in our state and in our country. And I am going to be very blunt about that, very explicit, that is the way it is. So also a large reason for our gangs because gangs are first and foremost a substitute family. We're not going to solve the crime problem until we start putting the family back together. It is that simple.

Second thing that we have to do is we have to do a much better job of promoting character values. These are not religious values, they're values that are recognized by all religions, all cultures, all people. These are the values of equality, of honesty, of industry, of integrity, of mercy, of justice, values, of protecting private property, respecting authority, respecting human life, these things.

I believe that in our schools and elsewhere, we have to much more aggressively promote these values. People's behavior is governed one of two ways. Either it's governed by laws and law enforcement officials outside the person or otherwise it's governed by values inside the person. And if we don't aggressively teach the right values. We're never going to have enough laws, and we're never going to have enough law enforcement officials to control behavior.

In a free society, we have to promote character values. It's as simple as that. We have fallen down in our obligation to do that. Every school board in the state, I believe, should very seriously ask itself, what are the values of the parents? What are the values of the community? What are the values that are necessary for us to be a free society?

And I think these are going to be values like equality and justice and the like. Then school boards need to do a better job of promoting those values, community values, parental values in their schools. It's as simple as that. Last thing we need to do is we do need to take violent criminals, people that are repeat offenders, and we do need to put these individuals in prison for a longer period of time.

Now, I also believe there are people who do not have to be in prison that could be dealt with by restitution, community service, minimum security, monitoring devices, and the like. But I put it in that order. You bring in jobs, you rebuild the family, you teach character, and you have to use prisons for people that continually cause trouble.

You have to attack it from every angle. You can't just do it with prisons, you have to attack it from every possible angle. Then we're going to start making some progress. And I think the time has come and the public wants us to start really getting serious about this. They're ready, I'm ready, now let's do it.

GARY EICHTEN: Barb from Saint Paul is on the line with a question for Alan Quist. Hello.

BARB: Hi. I'm on the Welfare Rights Committee, and I just wanted to say that I'm concerned about the things that you're saying about teens and single, unwed mothers not deserving welfare benefits. We see that as an attack on all who are poor because it threatens the entire welfare system. Single unwed mothers have the right to survive and to have kids, regardless of whether or not they are poor.

And I agree that abstinence is a good idea, but that it shouldn't be forced on anyone because if it's forced on anyone, then that's just another attack on all people who are poor because the rich can decide for themselves, whether or not to have kids, but the poor can't. And then another thing I'd like to go on this record to say is that teenagers don't run away to get welfare benefits, they run away from abusive families and then end up getting pregnant on the street basically.

GARY EICHTEN: Do you have a specific question or you would just like to have Mr. Quist comment on those ideas?

BARB: Well, I would like a comment.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, don't comment any more. Do you have a specific question?

BARB: Well, no, I would like to have Allen Quist.

GARY EICHTEN: Great.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, Barb, I think you've been reading somebody else's welfare proposal and not mine because I have never in any way indicated that you automatically cut off welfare for anyone. I do think that the welfare system ought to encourage pregnant teenagers to stay in their homes, rather than requiring them to leave their homes, and I think you do have to make exceptions.

I think if you've got an abusive relationship where a pregnant teenager is in an abusive home, then I think you have to make arrangements to bring that teenager out. But the present policies that bring the pregnant teenager out of the home, I think are counterproductive. I think you want to keep families together as much as possible, and that includes extended families, which in this case, you're going to have grandparents, you're going to have grandchildren. You always want to try to keep families together.

Insofar as abstinence-based sex education is concerned, you can't force that on anybody, that's part of the issue. But I think you need to encourage and you need to point people in the right direction. And it is similar to our antidrug program is that you can't force that on anybody either.

But our school children are looking for guidance and they're looking for a sense of direction, and we need to give that sense of direction. I think it's like the speed limit laws, you post the law out there 55 miles an hour, and most people don't drive by the speed limit most of the time, but they know there's a standard and they don't get too far away from it.

And I think that's what we have to do in all areas of life that we have to point out that there are standards, and even though the standards are violated, you have to continually try to bring people back to the standard within reason, in ways that are available to us.

GARY EICHTEN: Do you think welfare recipients ought to have their grant? If they have an additional child when they're on welfare, should they get more money for that additional child?

ALLEN QUIST: I don't think so. I think it's a mistake to give additional money for a second child or whatever. But to take that position, we also have to be providing, I believe, better solutions or alternatives. And I happen to believe that our present welfare reform proposals put far too much of the burden on the mother and are too quick to let the father off the hook.

And I think we need to redirect our welfare system so that we hold the father as responsible as the mother. And I think that's key. So I believe that when any child is born in the state of Minnesota, that the father, by law must be identified. And I believe that automatically that father has to be required to provide for the child.

And I think here's a place where we need equality. Father better be ready to pay his share of the bill. And I think we have to have policies that reflect that.

GARY EICHTEN: Wally from Saint Paul is on the line with a question. Hello.

WALLY: Good afternoon. Yes, Mr. Quist, I just have two quick questions I'd like to hearken back to a comments you made about a half an hour ago about the nature and nurture. As I recall, you said something to the effect that genetics makes us who we are.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, don't overstate it. I just say that genetics have a big influence.

WALLY: Well, my impression was that you don't hold great stock in the nurture side of it. So two quick questions. One, may we surmise from that you then support the Michigan judge who took the child away from Jennifer Ireland because he was going to be put in or she was going to be put in daycare firstly? And secondly, may we surmise that you are opposed to adoption?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, give me a little more detail on this Michigan case, if you would.

WALLY: Well, as I understand it from what the article in the papers have indicated, the child was born out of wedlock, finished high school. She got a scholarship to the University of Michigan, was going to place her child in daycare 35 hours a week. Apparently she went in to sue the birth father for a little additional child support, he was paying $12 a week.

And then he countersued and asked for custody, and the judge ruled, yes, the child shouldn't be placed with strangers, but rather should be placed with this man's mother which would be better for the child.

GARY EICHTEN: I guess the basic point here was the judge decided it would be better for the child to have his mother take care of the child than for the mother to put the child in daycare.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, let me go to the foster care issue first. I am a very staunch advocate of good foster care and a staunch advocate of adoption. And I don't think that there's anything sacred about the blood relationship between a parent and a child other than, under normal circumstances, that the blood relationship is going to be the parent of the child.

But if there's an abusive relationship, if the parents can't care for the child, then you need to find other homes, other parents, other families to put those kids in. And I think that what's best for the child is the right standard. And I would support that very enthusiastically.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's go back to the phones. Lyle is on the line with a call from Rochester. Hi.

LYLE: Hi. Do you believe, Mr. Quist, that we should require the teaching of creationism in our public school science classes? I'll hang up and listen.

ALLEN QUIST: Lyle, that is not my position. Although, as you know I am a creationist, but I have never had an interest in requiring content in any class. I was a teacher for 17 years, and I'm a staunch advocate of academic freedom.

I do think that classes should be true to their subject matter, I think they should be very professional, I think they should be honest, I think they should be fair. But I don't see how you can require content, and that's just not me.

GARY EICHTEN: Do you support the current state effort to write new graduation standards?

ALLEN QUIST: I think there are real problems in that standard, in that effort, and I think the problems involve a couple of things. One is that I've followed the writing of these standards and they're very heavily weighted with standards that are nonacademic and that are more social or philosophical. And I don't think that graduation standards should in any way be philosophical, political, ideological, or anything like that. I think graduation standards should be totally academic.

And so I think that's the first thing that we have to straighten out that they're going to be academic standards. Secondly, I really think that local school boards do make the best decisions on standards. And I think the state should give encouragement, should give guidance, I think should publish information. But I'm going to defer to the wisdom of the local school boards most of the time.

But there too, at the local level, the testing and the standards should be strictly academic, and you have to allow people a lot of freedom to differ with one another philosophically, religiously, politically, only academic standards.

GARY EICHTEN: If you're elected governor, are you going to try to get the funding for education changed in Minnesota so that we move away from relying on the property tax to pay for schools move towards state-based funding?

ALLEN QUIST: I think we do need to move in the direction of using the sales tax and the income tax, and I think we do need to move away from the property tax. And I think that's just an essential step that has to be taken.

GARY EICHTEN: Carol is on the line with a question from Ely, Minnesota. Hi.

CAROL: Good afternoon. My question is concerning gun control, and I would like to know, Mr. Quist, what your stand is in light of our Second Amendment rights? And what do of the second phase of the Brady Bill? And also, if you have any comments on Goals 2000 and outcome-based education.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, we touched on that last one. What's the second phase of the Brady Bill, mum?

CAROL: Well, I just hear that there is another phase that's supposed to come about and I don't know a whole lot about it. I was hoping to be enlightened a little bit. And we're really concerned about how much gun control the government wants to post upon us.

GARY EICHTEN: Gun control, Allen Quist.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, thank you very much. I'll have to admit that I am not privy to whatever the second phase of the Brady Bill is, and I would be very happy to find out what that might be. But I am a staunch advocate of the right to bear arms, and I really believe that, that Second Amendment is essential to protecting the freedoms of the people of our country.

And a big part of the reason for that Amendment is that it enables citizens to protect themselves from government, and we have to keep in mind that we need protection there too. I really believe that too much of the time, gun owners are being blamed for crime. And I think that that's pointing the finger at the wrong person.

The crime in our country is a result of, as I have said, a breakdown in the family, our unwillingness to teach character, not enforcing the laws well-enough, and the like. And I think we need to start focusing on the real causes of crime. I think that gun owners have been treated as second class citizens, and I just think that's fundamentally wrong.

I, by the way, I happen to have a gun collection, these are arms that I don't use, but it's just one of those fun things that I think people should have the right to do without being hassled and without being harassed.

GARY EICHTEN: Doesn't it bother you, though, that a lot of kids are running around with automatic weapons? Forget about the hunter who was going out to do pheasant hunting or whatever.

ALLEN QUIST: Well, we do have laws with regards to the age at which someone can buy a weapon. And I don't believe anyone can buy a weapon without being of legal age in our state. So the situation is that things are done illegally, but I don't think any amount of gun control is going to change the fact that kids have guns.

Another thing that we have to keep in mind is that 30 years ago, there was far less gun control than we have today, in fact, there was practically nothing. And 30 years ago, we had one fifth as much crime as we have today. So we have to start getting at the real causes.

I also happen to believe that what's happening here in the debate is like a magician's trick. The magician focuses our attention away from the real action, and that's how a magician does the tricks. That's what's happening, I think, in the crime issue.

Too often crime control is being equated with gun control, and they're just not the same thing. We have to focus on the real problems, that's the family, that's values, that's law enforcement, those things. And get off the backs of the gun owners.

GARY EICHTEN: We have time for, I think, one more question. Anne is on the line with a question. Hi.

ANNE: Hi. Thank you. Wonderful show. We have some good friends who are homeschoolers, and we've been really impressed with the results. What would Mr. Quist do or not do as far as his position on homeschooling in Minnesota?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, Anne, I'm a supporter of the right to homeschool, and I think parents should be able to make the decision to take that option if they wish. I could point out that I in fact was chief author in the House of the first homeschool bill. Now that ended up being the bill that created the task force that studied the matter and made the recommendations to the legislature.

So I've played a very key role in the right of parents to homeschool. I think we've got a pretty good system in the state of Minnesota. It's certainly not perfect, but I think it's one that we can all live with. It's really gratifying to me to see how well kids in homeschooling atmospheres are performing. And I think that's just excellent.

So the right is there. Let's make use of it, let's not abuse it. The state does have an interest in making sure that it's not abused.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's see if we can squeeze one more caller on here. Scott, go ahead.

SCOTT: Hello.

GARY EICHTEN: Very briefly here.

SCOTT: Mr. Quist.

ALLEN QUIST: Yes, Scott.

SCOTT: Did you sign off on increasing the minimum wage, realizing that it came up in the last legislative session, realize you may want the federal government to deal with it, but it's likely to come up in the state legislature anyway?

ALLEN QUIST: Scott, I really believe the minimum wage should be dealt with as a federal issue and not a state issue because I think the state can put itself at a competitive disadvantage. I think there are better ways to deal with low income, or to deal with the problem of low income than raising the minimum wage. That's why I have proposed targeted tax credits for working class and middle class families.

These would be before tax, tax credits, so even people that don't pay income tax would benefit. I think that's also a good reason why we have to expand the earned income credit, which I also very much support, and why we have to lower property taxes, which I support. So I think we have to meet the needs of low income people in ways other than state minimum wages. And we can do that without making ourselves uncompetitive with the other states.

GARY EICHTEN: 15 seconds, Allen Quist, you had a nice quiet life down there on the farm in Saint Peter. You've taken a lot of heat during this campaign already. Do you wish you would have stayed on the farm?

ALLEN QUIST: Well, I tell you, Gary, it's true that I've taken some heat. But the fact of the matter is, I just am enjoying myself to the maximum. For somebody like myself, a farmer to have the opportunity to be a statewide candidate, I was a teacher for 17 years, I had a lot of education, but this says, the fact that I'm a serious candidate says that the average citizen can make a difference and can be a candidate for high office. And I just am thrilled and gratified and honored to be able to have this opportunity.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks a lot for coming by. We'd like to remind you that the producer for our midday program is Sara Meyer, production help this week, Mike McCall-Pengra, Carroll Sylvester, Susan Randy, Todd Mo, Sasha Aslanian. Engineer is Randy Johnson with help from Kevin Middleton. I'm Gary Eichten, thanks so much for tuning in.