Broadcast of Minnesota meeting are made possible by the law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and Donnelly with offices in Minneapolis. St. Paul and major cities in the United States and Europe our speaker. Today is Bob Allen chairman and CEO of AT&T his speeches and titled the information superhighway. Will it run to Lake Wobegon having worked with Bob Allen on Workforce issues through the National Business Roundtable. I've witnessed firsthand the energy and time that Bob Allen devotes to addressing some of the most difficult issues facing our nation. He is clearly one of America's outstanding business and Civic leaders elected chairman and CEO of AT&T in April of 1988. Robert Allen heads an AT&T that has expanded from primarily telecommunications to the much broader business of information movement in management.Began his career at Indiana bill in 1957 subsequently served an officer posts at Indiana Bell Bella, Pennsylvania, Illinois Bell, the Chesapeake and Potomac telephone companies in AT&T where he was named president and Chief Operating Officer in 1986 his board memberships include Bristol-Myers Squibb company PepsiCo Chrysler the new American schools Development Corporation the Federal Reserve Bank of New York and America China Society in among numerous Civic affiliations. Bob. Allen is Chairman of the Business Council a member of the Comfort conference board, The Business Roundtable and the US Japan Business Council as well as a trustee of Wabash College where he graduated in 1957 now following his presentation, you're encouraged to ask questions, please use the slips of paper on your table to jot down questions for discussion, and I'm now very pleased to present.Bob Allen Thank you, Larry and good afternoon, and thank you all for coming. I know there can't be that many AT&T employees out there. So I assume many of you are not. I'm very proud of AT&T people in this area and had occasion to have breakfast this morning with some of our customers who had high praise for them and I hope that we always serve you. Well, that is our intent make us work hard on your behalf because that makes us better. I'm delighted to be here on such a beautiful spring day. It is spring isn't it? particularly after the winter that I've suffered in the Northeast and I Now understand why some people in New Jersey referred to February as the four months, which separate January and March And I can assure you. That's the way it seemed this year, but I'm delighted to be able to join you out here in the nation's heartland. I don't get here as often as I would like at least not in person. But like many New Jersey residents Saturday night at around seven o'clock. We hear a familiar voice on the radio that says very softly. It's been a quiet Lake. Excuse me a quiet week in Lake Wobegon Garrison, keillor's Tales of Lake Wobegon may not be true, but they carry a lot of Truth. One of my favorites holds a real lesson, I believe for the information industry and it's very timely it tells about the origins of a peculiar right a Rite of Spring in Lake Wobegon. And it's it's called the annual sons of knut ice melt. I'm sure many of you have heard that but I'm told it all started on a sunny March afternoon years ago when mr. Burgie drove his maroon Ford out to out on the frozen lake across the fresh snow to check out his fishing Hut but unbeknownst to mr. Bergey, the spring ice melt had already begun in slowly his maroon Ford sank to the bottom of the icy waters of the Lake Fire Department rescued, mr. Bergy, but his Ford had plunged to the bottom and when summer came they fished it out. Mr. Berg, he donated it to the sons of knut Lodge and every winter. I'm told they tow it out on the lake leave it there tethered by a long chain and as a fundraiser for the lodge people pay a dollar to guess the day and the hour when the car will once again sink to the bottom of the lake. It's kind of Lake Wobegon has answered to the March Madness basketball pool. Well, the story is fun as so many of those stories are but I think it has a moral. The moral is that change even changes welcome as Springtime can be dangerous. If you're not paying attention and around the world today. There are profound changes underway in how we use information technology. Here in America many people sum it up sum up these changes in the phrase the overused phrase the information superhighway that term might be a little overused these days but it is a powerful metaphor. It represents people's hopes and expectations for the way Advanced Information Services will be distributed and made available to all of us in the future. It represents. Hope for the information infrastructure that is as ubiquitous and is Broad and is accessible and as affordable as the interstate highway system. In one way or another people are asking will the information superhighway run to Lake Wobegon will Advanced Information Services bring their benefits to small towns as well as to big cities to small businesses as well as to Giant corporations. Will these Services improve the quality of life for the average family as well as for the more privileged? Those are good and they are important questions and answers life partly in the realm of technology. And partly I believe in the realm of public policy. Of the to public policy is obviously less certain the technology we need is either in place or it's very fast coming online. I don't believe the information superhighway will bog down for any inadequacies of Technology. But when it comes to public policy were a bit like, mr. Bergey. I think we're writing on some thin ice right now. There is an important public policy debate going on in Washington actually right now. They're in recess which makes Washington relatively harmless at the moment. It's one of the few weeks in the year when I sleep very soundly. But when they returned Congress will soon be making decisions about telecommunications in about the marketplace that will affect the information technology and how it is delivered to this country for generations to come. As you might guess I have some opinions on the issues that are under debate and I'll get to them in just a moment. But first let me just say a few words about the information technology what it means today and where I think we're headed. I'm sure I don't have to preach to this audience about the importance of technology after all Minneapolis is not Lake Wobegon the little town That Time Forgot you are among leaders in American business and industry and clearly an important center of Technology the whether we're talking about Minnesota or Maine and New Jersey or New Mexico America is going through societal changes that are fueled by Information Technology classic assumptions about how we do business are crumbling from the simplest tasks to the most complex. We are doing our jobs differently today because of Information Technology. In business and the professions the information superhighway is not just the future concept. It is already begun to deliver advantages. Although the future. I believe promises much much more Communications and Computing have transformed the way in which we work in many critical areas health care, for example, increasingly doctors are using technology to consult far-flung experts to help them deliver Services more effective effectively and efficiently for example a surgeon in Memphis is using AT&T still image phone to send high quality color pictures over regular phone lines to Duke University so that he can consult colleagues during a delicate retina operation. And by the way, as Larry said are still image phone and other of our products and services are being demonstrated and I hope you will stop by. Assisting surgeons to use that example during operation is pretty dramatic. But Information Age Technology is transforming the way we do simple tasks as well like ordering from a catalog but it's not just the sales process. It's Sales Inventory manufacture design underpinned and driven by Communications and Computing. It starts with a simple call to an 800 number and the sale and a salesperson who may be at home as they more frequently are or in a Communication Center serving the world and with the touch of a few buttons the salesperson can check inventory deliver the order electronically to the warehouse or a supplier and set the billing process in motion. Huge stockpiles of goods are not needed as electronic systems capture stock in factories, or at subcontractor locations and Order information shapes design and Manufacturing activities by tracking consumer tastes and consumer demands in short advanced technology is enabling business to get information to move it and to use it for strategic Advantage whether that be to lower their cost reduce their investment be more responsive in in a to their customers provide better service or all of the above. But high technology is no longer the province of large corporations with Hefty Capital budgets. It has migrated to middle and even small size companies at costs that have come down as capabilities have come up when I was growing up. My father ran a small children's clothing store on Main Street in a small town in Indiana. It's no longer there. The story of his store is the story of the demise of Main Street and the rise of the certain Highway chain stores information information technology might not have saved my father's store, but it is breathing new life and creating new possibilities for small entrepreneurs in the future and all over the country. small businesses are not landlocked today on Main Street waiting for people to stroll in or simply to drive by communication technology opens their stores to the world and information technology can identify and Target the customers wherever they may be Communications technology today is largely either Voice or data, but we're moving toward multimedia with products and services that really combine both. In fact, we're also adding site to sound with products like video phones increasingly. We're putting it all together. For example, AT&T offers a video desktop conferencing product, which you can see out there that combines phone service with personal computers and the conferees Not only can see each other on their computer screens, but they can pull up data charts a designs and other documents from electronic files for explanation for discussion for collaborative work and that sort of thing. And of course we've introduced AT&T has personal communicators a portable devices that let people communicate by voice electronic mail by facsimile and eventually will equip it with a video as well. These will be handy a little devices. Now this may sound like a society where the information superhighway is already widely deployed and it is true that the long-distance networks and private networks offer the Broadband bandwidths needed for video and high-speed data services. But these broad superhighways turn into narrow dirt roads, once you get into the neighborhood's particularly when you get down to that last that so-called Last Mile that is to say the lines that go from the curb into the home or into the business. The information age has become bogged down in the local monopolies telephone companies have not provided broad bad Broadband capability to the home which would give consumers the ability to access all kinds of new multimedia Services. Now, there's no Mal intent in this fact. The reason I suspect is a lack of competition. The local telephone companies right now. Enjoy the same essentially the same Monopoly control as they did in 1984 When the Bell System was broken apart by contrast long-distance business is highly competitive customers have choices last year 16 million customers 44,000 people every day of the year on average switched to another long-distance carrier. I asked you did anyone call up and switch their local phone company. There is no other place to call there is no other local phone company to switch to one thing is clear since the Bell System was broken up competition has really worked in the long-distance Market. It has brought the classic benefits lower prices more choices Innovation and greater value to you as a consumer the question now, I believe is whether competition for local service would work better than Monopoly today 99% of all calls go through the local phone companies including a similar percentage of cellular calls. There are many potential competitors for local telephone companies including cable television companies which by the way are already providing local telephone service some places outside the United States and given the possibilities of video such as movies on demand shopping games and access to educational databases. It's not surprising that a lot of Industries see electronic access to the home as a great Market potential. But all of that potential doesn't add up to competition and it doesn't put a hairline crack in the local monopolies. Sometimes I think that point gets lost when the phone companies argue in Washington that they should be allowed into the long-distance business and be allowed to manufacture. The bail system was broken up ten years ago for a reason AT&T was competing with other long distance carriers, but it also owned the local phone companies and the lines that every long-distance company had to use to get to its customers the government judged that that situation was intolerable. It leads to Monopoly of abuse with both the opportunity and the incentive to favor one's own company. Its own long distance provider its own manufacture and at the break up the local phone monopolies were split away from the competitive parts of AT&T and the local companies were prohibited from the long distance and Manufacturing marketplaces. So long as their Monopoly continued but now the local Bell companies want the restrictions lift, even though they still are monopolies. Our position is clear so long as they have a local Monopoly. They should not be allowed into the long-distance Market. Once the local market is competitive then we welcome all comers into the marketplace, but that is not now the case we believe competition in the local exchange ought to be tested to see whether it can work several bills pending in Congress address competition in the local telephone exchange. They all have good and bad aspects from our standpoint, and I'm sure from any interested party standpoint. But we believe it is not enough simply to declare to declare that the local market is now open for competition. You need to remove the barriers to entry for new competitors and you need to have some evidence that there is competition. For example, that customers have competitors to choose from and that some significant percentage are actually making another choice. If no one shows up to compete or if the competitors cannot attract business then maybe the local phone company is a natural Monopoly Monopoly but saying in marketplaces competitive does not make it so I think we need evidence. Now. This is not just an exercise for lawyers and government policy wonks. There is a real national issue here and that is what will bring the benefits of the information Age Technology to the American public faster. What will make those Services more widely available and more affordable for the people in the cities like Minneapolis? And yes in places like Lake Wobegon. Now I am a converted monopolist as you may now recognize. But I've had more than a decade of experience in competing. I've been competing a lot longer than that on the golf course. But I think competition is the answer competition is the answer because it works it worked in our business. It works in your businesses. I think it can work here but it must be real competition in the dirt and the dust of the marketplace not imagine competition or promised competition or competition in name only or Monopoly still control the action because we're monopolies can still control the marketplace Innovation lags prices stay higher and consumers don't get the benefits that I think they should and could get When Garrison keillor's old, mr. Burgie drove his maroon Ford out on the lake. His Mind's Eye was on that fishing Hut Not a Bad Thing to think about but he did not pay attention to the ice that was melding around him and he paid a high price the players in the information industry have a lot of fishing Huts to mind and maybe we all myself included think too narrowly of the fish that we're going to fry, but I think we need to pay attention to what is in the real interest of consumers and let that be our guide and if we don't I think that we too will pay a high price. Thank you very much. Thank you very much, Bob. We will now turn the program over to you. Again. Thank you. We have a first question from William cadigan the president and CEO of ADC telecommunications. Thank you. Bob certainly the issue of the information superhighway has to be regarded as an issue where there's been a lot of hype in the industry. Many of the our box when we asked the question about deploying technology such as fiber in the loop make the point that the business case is not at all clear about whether they can make money and this area could you share with us your comments about demand for some of these Advanced Services? Yeah, I think I've never seen their business cases, but I suspect that's true. I think a lot of the information Super Highway noise is noise and not true Harmony of any sort that's understandable on the other hand. We all make investments are all have to make investments that bet on the future. I can't judge whether our box or anybody else ought to make those Investments some have stepped up to it Pacific telephone for example has committed 16 billion dollars between now and I think the end of the decade and they're going to wire up all of the homes in California. Now that's in a that's in a territory where the regulatory climate has not been favorable for many many years favorable in the sense of making Investments that couldn't be justified in business case. Is and didn't couldn't be demonstrated to avoid causing current rate payers to pay for something that's speculative. And I don't know that they have final regulatory approval. But at least they've stepped up to make that commitment others have talked about it many others I know are planning it and so I think there is a move afoot to do that. I think it would be difficult to prove in a business case, which says this is going to make us money in year X or has a net present value of y over a certain period of time and so to some extent it becomes a chicken-and-egg matter. I can't speak for them wouldn't try to it's one of the reasons why so many trials are going on. In fact, there are some underway or about to Go under way here in Minnesota with uswest trying to find out what consumers will really pay for. I think one of the dangers is that we get into an argument about the government's role that is to say well if we can bring all this wonderful new Educational Opportunity by accessing databases and having school at home and fifty thousand other things we run the risk of the taxpayers making that investment. I don't think that's necessary. I think there's enough private Capital out there. Look at the alliance's are being formed. Look at some of the commitments that are being made if we can demonstrate value in the marketplace and that's where we need to test this. I think private Capital will supply the infrastructure. Thank you very much. Mr. Allen. We're going to go now to a question from Mitch pearlstein the president of a conservative think tank in town called the center of the American experiment. Mr. Allen Think Tank questions are Bass he right. Thanks very much. I'm intrigued by the fact that we have made as much progress as we have technologically in this country given the fact that the the aptitude of many many people in this nation including myself is so low when it comes to these technological engineering scientific computer type matters how much better off would we be or does it make a difference if education in this area was a whole lot better as it needs to be Well, I think it would make a difference. However, I think to some extent we were discussing our table is a generational thing. My children are totally at ease with today's technology. And even though I'm in the business, I'm not I have to work at it. I think so. I think a lot of it will naturally come as as the Next Generation comes along. I think we have a large responsibility that is to say the industry in finding easier ways for you is consumers to use this technology. We have I speak for AT&T. We have been in the past too much of a technology. Push company is opposed to Consumer pull a kind of a company and we're trying to change that and I think we've got a better balance today and I don't think it's ever one or the other. I think you have to have both at play. I mean we consumers in spite of what some people think at least I believe do not always know what they want. Nor do they know what the art of the possible is when it comes to what may be useful and a value to them. So I think we need to push technology. I think we need to find out what consumers how we can apply technology. To better serve them. So I think we have a responsibility and we have a major focus on trying to on ease of use. I for one will be the first one to throw my keyboard away as soon as I can speak into a device whatever it may be and that's not very far off. I mean we've got devices now that can recognize two thousand words or phrases and audio speech processing is not far off as a substitute for keyboards. And I think perhaps an opportunity to cross that Gulch of difficulty. I think education in this in the system would be helpful and I see an acceleration of that but I think it's a combination of all those factors. Thank you. Mr. Allen. Our next question is from Brian Davis with Personnel decisions. Mr. Davis, thank you to what extent do you see advances in cellular technology as a possible vehicle for the more competition at the local level? Well, first of all currently I do not see that anytime soon as a as a relevant alternative we believe and in fact the people in the telephone companies have said on many occasions that cellular service is really an added value an extension of regular voice wired Communications. It is an added functionality that serves differing kinds of customers. They happen to be one of the values we have some of our as I called them earlier today a future relatives from a call here today who have a very good operation in Minnesota and in the Twin Cities, we see that as a growth industry and one that were willing to invest a lot of money in one of the reasons being not that it's a substitute for something else but rather because we think we can make it a lot better than it is. Is it will become more useful we can continue the growth but also because some of our major customers today and most important customers of long-distance service for example are also heavy users of cellular. And so they want the opportunity. They tell us they want the opportunity to get it all from AT&T. I think it'll be a long time before we have a replacement of voice wired Communications by cellular Wireless Communications. Probably not in my lifetime in part just because there is such a big base of voice wired communication and it goes also again to people's habits people are tethered today in their homes, very high percentage of them. They have no desire they use a they use a mobile telephone perhaps in their home a wireless. Cordless telephone, but not a cellular device. So and and I repeat that all cellular virtually all cellular calls today. Originated and or terminate on wired Communications owned by the telephone companies. It is less than 1% of cellular calls today that actually move from one mobile location to another that is to say like from a car to a car. So I think there will be a move in that direction but not a significant one for a long time and there's another question of capacity of solar systems. Thank you. You're listening to Robert Allen chairman and chief executive officer of AT&T speaking to the Minnesota meeting on the station's of Minnesota Public Radio. We have a next question from Clark Johnson who came all the way to Lake Wobegon from MIT. That's not really true. I live here in Minneapolis. Mr. Allen apropos the question about cellular telephony last week and an amendment was added to House Bill 3636 giving the broadcaster's the right to lease their UHF band with For anything they wanted to this makes a plethora of bandwidth now available for Cellular Communications. I'd like to have you address what you think that means and especially what it means in terms of the future of HDTV in the United States. Well, if I can be perfectly candid I have absolutely no idea. and I'm sorry but Well, I think we'll move right on to another question then. I could tell I didn't want to fake an answer with you. If our if our professor from MIT doesn't mind we're going to go to Grace Hamilton who has her own consulting firm in town of communications consulting firm. Yes, excuse me. Mr. Allen. I have a question about universal access. I know that as far as telephone communication straight telephone that there is a concern that everyone has access to telephone service and with all this technology being talked about going to the home. I know I'm government levels are discussing making sure that everybody has access. I was curious on a corporate level of what kind of concerns are being addressed as far as pricing to ensure that everybody will have access. Well, as I'm sure you know, the telephone system in this country was built on the premise of universal access and as a result and in a monopoly where it doesn't make a lot of difference there were subsidies of local exchange service. So everybody had acts in fact could get access at reasonable prices subsidies from other services. So long as the Monopoly exist. I suppose one could still price in that fashion to be sure that Universal universal access to the new information Highway would be prevalent and possible. I think in a company like mine while we are attentive to issues of that nature. We cannot think in terms and should not think in terms of pricing mechanisms or subsidy mechanisms that Deal with that issue. I think it is much like much like subsidization of needy poor and needy people in this country in a whole variety of areas. That is something that we need to deal with on a social basis. Not on a business basis if we still had the Monopoly if we didn't have to worry about competitors, then we can make those shifts and be unconcerned about it. I think it is an important issue. I don't mean to suggest it's not but it's not something that companies like AT&T can spend a lot of time worrying about I think we need to separate the market issues and the cape willingness to pay issues from those people who are less privileged and who we all must be concerned from a from a societal basis have access But it's not a question. That is a question a legitimate question. I think for governments at the state and local and perhaps the national level to deal with. Thank you. Mr. Allen. Our next question is over here from Paul Bennett with the Canadian Consul. Mr. God. Yes, I certainly enjoyed your remarks and and certainly agree that that in principle the information highways is a very useful thing for For The World At Large, but I do have one question and that is that the information Highway does certainly impact upon what in the United States should refer to as entertainment what in Canada referred to as cultural Industries and for example, when 200 newspaper 200 television stations will be available on satellite which have in fact had their advertising paid for in the United States. And therefore there's no cost to have them go up over Canada Canadian stations, which which can't have access to their advertising and therefore get a large of amount of money to produce TV shows Etc will suffer and Canadians believe that cultural Industries such as broadcasting telecommunications publishing whatever are important to our unique expression and that is something that we raised at the FTA FTA and at the at the NAFTA and I know also that France and Italy raised it in the Gap negotiations and my question is with the increasing information Highway, how are different countries able to support and enhance their unique and vibrant cultural Industries history Etc make them available to their own people so that have an understanding of that and not be overwhelmed by the information Highway, which will frankly project a lot of American views and American ideas. Thank you. Through that, you know, I might be willing to help you with that problem. If you could open the Canadian Market to AT&T. I don't know it is a it is a question, which I obviously do not pretend to understand all the ramifications of I'm not sure I understand even the question that you addressed to me. There are questions of that kind on an international basis. I have just been discussed by various August bodies without resolution to my knowledge. I don't know how we can deny I suppose we can deny the transmission of television channels when they cross the satellites cross the Canadian borders, but I think that's a matter for our governments to deal with I don't think that is an industry issue and I suspect in that case that you cite that is a matter for the u.s. And Canadian governments to resolve. I don't think it has a lot to do with the information superhighway. A that we're building in this country that at least the one that I was referring to but to the extent that it mean these Technologies do not stop at Borders entrepreneurship does not stop at Borders. We need standards. We need a national trade agreements and a whole variety of things to be sure that we don't infringe across borders unnecessarily, but I don't know how to deal with that one. I'm apologize. Please Sports Illustrated recently did what was called a split run addition in Canada. That is they paid for all their the cost of the magazine in the United States and simply transmitted the entire magazine by satellite to a city outside of Toronto and headed printed and called it a Canadian Edition. Now, this means that Canadian magazines cannot go after the advertising dollars Etc. And in fact that the magazine is already paid for from of its American run. So this is directly a question again of Technology superseding. The laws that we had had in place a designed specifically to enhance our cultural Industries. Well, I for one don't know how I might be inclined to call that competition. And ask why Canadian Publishers might not reciprocate and do the same thing. Maybe that's not the way to settle these issues. But I just I don't know how you can deal with that kind of Entrepreneurship and marketing strategy and Technology application and then somehow say we won't permit that to cross this border that border but we deal with issues like that in trade talks and perhaps it is a legitimate issue. I've just I've never encountered that one. Thank you. Mr. Allen. We have a next question from Chip Emery who is a vice president Honeywell the military Navionics group. Mr. Allen, we've talked a lot today about consumer uses of the superhighway for information with the consolidation and Alliance is going on at a very hectic pace in the industry. Would you comment on what that portends for industrial or consumer uses of technology and uses of those devices as resellers to other Industries? Reseller scuse me of what devices? Well, I tried to cite just a couple of examples of how technology application is making American Business more competitive. Not only these of the other American competitors but on a global basis and we are we are working with a number of major companies in this country to enhance the use of Technology really focused on they're serving their customers better and leveraging that technology across borders. We've built we're building Global networks and managing Global networks for companies who operate around the world so that they can improve their efficiency and cost of production and and With their customers and so forth. I am not aware of Many cases where customers have resold the technology that we've helped them apply. But I know that I know that takes place if we can get value provide value and receive value for those applications if they can resell them then particularly since our business is networking. Primarily. Our Core Business is networking. I think that plays into our hand in the long term if we can anything any traffic we can put on our Global Network through any means is value added for us. Not sure I've addressed your question but Thank you. Mr. Allen. We have time for a few more questions. We're going to take one now from Rick Cuneo who's a student at Minneapolis Community College. Hello. Mr. Allen. I have a question about how fiber optics would affect shopping with Shoppers in the future be more likely to use Fiber Optic or teleconferencing type centers to purchase products or more likely to continue using traditional shopping centers, and could the cables be laid to supply potential demand. Well, I have some opinions about it and and less facts and opinions. I think but first of all doesn't we don't need fiber optics that is one media that's one form of getting a Broadband capability to customers in homes so that or elsewhere so that they can have interactive capability to do things like shopping so it can be a be different for But I think the real question is how many people are willing to remove the social aspects of the shopping experience? It's not something that particularly appeals to me. But my wife is a world-class Shopper and I cannot even though she is also the user of catalogs. I cannot imagine her buying her dresses or other things the our television set or some other device. So I I don't think I think you can see from home shopping and other services are now being provided which are growing very rapidly that a lot of people are very attracted to this this kind of bind. I mean even in the non enter multimedia interactive mode people are buying many goods and services. Is because they've seen it on television Barry Diller told me that it's not unusual for their buyers to spend ninety to a hundred hours watching before they finally are willing to make that first put that first toe in the water. They have to gain confidence. They have to hear from other people who have made purchases and been satisfied they have to apparently they have to feel very comfortable before they make that first purchase, but once they do and if it's satisfaction is received and the experience is good and they accelerate their Pace, but I'd be surprised personally don't have any data to prove it that home shopping will ever make much of a dent in live shopping in the malls. Questions. Our next question is from Lille inch of Carmichael Lynch with the explosion of fax Transmissions. There's been a decline in envelopes being sold with the forthcoming explosion in real-time to way high resolution video of a regular phone lines. What industries will be negatively affected I ask that is a stakeholder in Northwest Airlines. Well, I can tell you that we are trying our best to make it unnecessary for people to travel starting starting with our own people travel is not only generally a pain all due respect in Northwest and the other airlines but it is expensive time-consuming and yet like shopping. I don't I mean there are certain meetings and there's certain belief systems among people. I don't believe travel will ever be seriously ever is a long time will not be seriously impacted because of video conferencing for a long time because it will come on it'll grow very rapidly but will not impact immediately millions of American people. So I don't know what industries will be impacted. I'm not even sure about your premise. One of the great things about facsimile transmission is that typically someone will call another party and say I'm sending you a fax they send the fax and then they call to be sure they got it and we get three messages and and The copier people love it because they reproduce it on hard paper. And then even though I've got the soft paper and been advised by another call that I got the fax when I get home. There's a hard copy in my mail in an envelope. So thank you. Mr. Allenbury, right? I'm not sure thank you. We have time for one final question from Steve salyer who's the president of American public radio in a member of the Minnesota meeting board of directors, you mentioned in your talk the negative effects for the consumer and for Public Policy of monopolistic practices in the movement of information. I wondered if you could comment on The possible negative effects of Trends toward the toward information creation participation and editorial process of information Distributors, particularly, the kinds of Investments that have been made or contemplated being made in the Motion Pictures information content of various kinds. well, let me just say AT&T is interest is not in owning content and not just because I don't want to deal with people who work for Paramount but We just that's not our thing. That's not our core competency. It's not our expertise. We would like to be able to deliver and serve as the hosting industry for all who developed content and want to move it someplace. We might participate at the edges just so we understand how customers want to access it and that sort of thing but our fundamental principles on that subject are these simple that consumers should be able to get access to all content providers? And that all content providers ought to have access to all consumers and therefore we should not have any single bottleneck or anybody controlling the set-top box or anybody controlling the entry to the network that distributes that is to say anybody meaning a single or small group of companies. We think openness is best here for everybody. We think that leads to better more competition better service more creativity lower prices. And therefore we would not handicapped anybody on either end of the food chain and having access to whoever they they wish. I'm about to get to hook here and I want to thank you very much for your kind attention for your presence here today and and for your business we We'd like to in business in Minnesota and we thank you very much.