(00:00:00) It's six minutes past eleven o'clock. And this is midday on the news and information station marks a deck like here along with Clifford cane today. We'll be talking about higher education will be taking your calls with questions about choosing colleges and universities financial aid and whatever else you might want some information about as it pertains to college Clifford Cain is the author of how to get into college and the college entrance predictor Clifford Kane is the director of student services and College counseling at Breck school and Golden Valley. He also serves as a consultant who specializes in College counseling. Thanks so much for being here this morning Clifford came. We appreciate it (00:00:34) Mark. I'm really glad to be (00:00:36) here. If you have a question about colleges and universities give us a call at 2:00 to 7:00 6,000. If you're listening in the Twin Cities metropolitan area outside of the Twin Cities anywhere. You can hear this broadcast. You can call toll-free with your question at 1-800-222-8477 Thousand if you're listening in the Twin Cities or outside of the Twin Cities 1-800 two for two. 2A 2A. Well, I guess first off Clifford Kane what stage are people that defy? You're a senior and you plan on attending college next year. Have you by this time chosen? The college? Are you waiting for a letter of acceptance? What does that Cycle Works? It goes every year (00:01:14) right? Well Market goes every year and it goes quite differently for one student to another if you're a very careful senior you would have been on task working on this specifically for a year or two and you would be have applied to your schools and you be sitting back waiting to see where you got in or you would have heard from some schools already. However, I run into a number of students lately who say hey I want to go to school next year. But how do I do it and some are just starting right now? And those are the latecomers but I'd say probably 80 or 90% are involved in Waiting or have just heard from some (00:01:50) colleges. If you're a parent and you have a child that you are young adolescent child, whatever that expects to go to college. When should you really? You're going to do it. Right and if you really want to go through a thorough process of selecting a college and securing the best financial aid these sorts of things. (00:02:07) I'm pleased to get that kind of a question. I think in most cases you should start thinking about it when you enter high school because curriculum can be all important. At least you should get into the mainstream of it with the financial aid and a thinking about the specific schools in your junior year. So I would say that in choice of curriculum freshman and choice in terms of just doing the solid job of applying in the junior year or late in the sophomore year (00:02:35) and I suppose if you have a youngster you probably better be thinking about college from the onset in terms of your financial planning. We called the Minnesota private college Council and they have 16 members most of the big schools around Minnesota that are private and their total average annual cost right now with room and board and tuition and other fees is about $16,000 that compares to about $10,000 at the University of Minnesota. So it's something that takes some advance planning nowadays. (00:02:59) It's a Absolutely stunning what's happening? And of course the question is can families keep up. That's an open question right now, but the financial aid isn't quite as much in place as it was a decade ago or even five years ago. (00:03:14) OK Clifford Kane is the guest you're listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. If you have a question and you're listening in the Twin Cities metropolitan area, you can call us at two to seven six thousand. If you're listening outside of the Twin Cities call us toll-free at 1-800-222-8477 Bert on the line who has a question about what to expect when you're touring colleges and apparently he is interested in colleges out east. Good (00:03:37) morning. Good morning. I'd like to ask Clifford. If you're going to take your youngster out to visit perhaps several colleges perhaps in the East you have a proximately one day per visit. What should the youngster expect to come out accomplish during that day and also, What can a parent learned during that that time? And also, how do you how do you go about arranging these visits? (00:04:08) Well bird, I think that's a tremendous question. Let me give you a precise and quick and answers. I can number one. You should call the admissions Departments of schools in the area and arrange for a tour and possibly an interview for your student at each School. Secondly, you should check out where you're going to stay and stay near the campus that will save you in many cases in eastern cities and fish especially right now my save it two or three hours thirdly. I think that you should make sure that besides the tour that you talked to students on the campus in an extemporaneous way eat some of the food and find out what the inner workings of the college are I would also point out that in doing this some of these things would have to be done by the student alone the parent could go along and the tour perhaps but in the interview the students should go alone. I would also prep for it by reading up on the college before you go so that for example, your student can have a good chance in the interview to not sound like a tourist but sounds like someone who's very informed but I think that your idea of doing one a day is good. I think it's possible to sometimes to do two a day. For example, if you hit boss and I think you can do to a day and maybe change your plans and add some more those are some of my ideas I would be very proactive before I went and arranged a carefully particularly in the (00:05:25) East how many colleges should you visit if you have no idea where you want to go to school? I mean the list is endless. I mean in Minnesota alone, we have 25 or 30 different colleges (00:05:37) or when I work with students. I have them fill out a data sheet which includes their interests and what kind of student they are and look at their transcript and then I try to get a list from that. I think that you should selectively apply be to between 428 schools. That's what I think is a good idea one or two long shots ones. You may not get into in other words, one two or three in the middle and at least one or two backups or safety schools that you're sure of getting in. That's what I think is a good procedure and take some time to discuss this with your counselor or your And and try to arrive at a nice list, but otherwise you say the list is endless. I would add one more thing. There is not one golden school that you're looking for this going to be perfect Over the Rainbow type of school there probably are hundred schools that you be perfectly happy at and I want to emphasize that many students think there is a dream School seldom. If ever do you find it just because Duke for example has a good basketball team doesn't mean you're going to love it in the in the classroom, you might (00:06:36) and when you're applying for the school's is there some sort of cap, you should expect on application fees and these sort of things or not. Is there a reasonable and unreasonable amount? (00:06:45) I think that's Mark that's a tremendous question. It used to be not a problem when they were just kind of incidental fees now. I think that many families will find a real surprise as a sticker shock on application fees quit which can run 50 to $75 in some schools. I think that you should keep it down to a reasonable amount and of course if you mix public and private The public's are going to be cheaper. (00:07:06) Okay, let's go back to the phone line. Good morning. You're on the air with Clifford Cain. (00:07:10) Yeah. Hi. I have a question. What's the real value? If you're not necessarily planning to go on to graduate school to attend one of the big name Ivy League or something schools rather than a McCallister or more of a local (00:07:23) school. I would say parenthetically speaking that that McAllister itself as has emerged into a national school, but I don't mean to make that the answer. I think the value of going to school is finding a college that fits you if I have one passion in life or in my career, it is finding a college that fits probably the worst thing that can happen is for someone with tremendous sat or ACT scores and a strong and driving parents to send them to Harvard when he had never any interest in going there he or she and and cannot function in such an environment very well socially shall we say I think the match is for in and out of the classroom and the match is how you will achieve and how you will feel about it. I believe you can get an education almost anywhere that is a good school. I think you can also fail anywhere and I have lots of stories either way. So I don't think it's the name of the school so much as the fit of the school that is important. Now, let me add one more thing if you're going to be a lawyer and want to be in a national firm and a Sure of it. The name of Harvard will be much more memorable than the name of X State University in some obscure. Whether corner of a western state there is no doubt that there are exceptions to the rule. (00:08:38) What is a healthy role for parents to play in this whole process. I mean some you hear students talk about. Well, you know, my dad went to such and such a school and that's where I have to go because he went or he didn't go to such and such a school. So you're gonna go to that school because we have the opportunity to send you there what role do parents or should parents be playing in (00:08:56) this it's almost as though you can you can compare it to what role should parents play with good athletes parents should know when to let go parents should act like wise counselors parents should not impose their values on the student, but try to look at the student as a separate individual one of the worst things that I've seen happen over the years is parents that want their child to go to a military academy because they think it would be good for them and straighten them up and eyes a concert find that the student himself has Interest in it allow the student to have his or her own voice and making the decision and be a wise parent and a standoff parent a parent that stands back and someone will turn it over to the professionals to help too. (00:09:38) Okay. Let's go back to the phones Bridget. You're on the oh, good morning. Where are you calling (00:09:41) from? Well, I'm in the car on the way to the office. Okay, and I have a question about saving for college our children are you know relatively young now? The oldest is in third grade, but a friend was telling me that it was not a good idea to put money into the child's name, but it was better to keep it, you know as part of the family pot and we have put you know money into savings things that are in the kids names and I just am curious whether that's the wrong way to start. (00:10:12) I don't think it's the wrong way to start it all and in general. I think the most important thing is to search out all the edges that you can have for your for your child now for example in the government bonds. The that the ibans they're giving some special breaks for kids. It doesn't matter whether it's in your name or their as but actually if you can set it aside for the student, they will get a break tax-wise. But I think putting some into the into the student's name is a good idea. The laws are changing continually on this and I think you will find more and more that the monies for college are going to be more child-centered and they're going to make an attempt the national government and state governments, for example, and also private lenders to make it easier for parents to send kids to college. Otherwise, we won't have very many colleges to left. They're getting so expensive. So I know that there's some moves afoot (00:11:06) OK Clifford Kane is a guest you're listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. This is Mark's a deck. Like if you have a question about colleges and universities and you're listening inside the Twin Cities metropolitan area call us at two to seven six thousand if you're listening outside of the Twin Cities anywhere, you can hear the broadcast as a matter of fact you Call toll-free at 1-800-222-8477 line now with a question about getting into college if you have a GED, good (00:11:35) morning. Hello, what steps would you recommend be taken by the (00:11:40) recipient recipient of EDD to get into college? And also (00:11:44) would you recommend going straight to a college or university or were you would you (00:11:47) recommend going to a community college or other such institutions (00:11:51) and maybe we could also explain what kind of a situation somebody might be in that they end up with a GED rather than a regular high school diploma. (00:11:58) A GED is an equivalency degree which shows which which gives you a high school diploma without graduating officially in the normal way from high school very often. This will be the result of illness or special personal circumstance. It means that you can't really finish with the class. There's and there are many reasons for it, but it's a perfectly respectable way of graduating from high school. And is something done with a test after you Done some study usually on your own. I think a GED is recognized pretty generally throughout the higher education Community. I think sometimes the easiest way to do it is to go to a community college and test and test the waters of it. But there is no reason Under the Sun why you can't apply to any college with a GED and see how it goes. Most of them will accept it and they will interview you in many cases. No find out how you fit and you should go right on but I do think that the Community College start isn't bad after all that's a two-year period and maybe that would be a good way to adjust socially back to going to school. (00:12:58) Is it a misnomer for someone who maybe didn't go through the traditional process of graduating from high school to assume that when they do approach a college or university that they're going to be looked at maybe look down on for not having done at the traditional way or is it possible that the admissions folks might look at this person and decide this person actually had a lot of energy to get the GED and they move on. (00:13:21) Well Mark, I think your answer it what you said so much is about half of What I would have said I do tell you this most schools and a lot of the private sector will ask you for an essay when you apply and what a great opportunity for a GED person to tell the story of his different sort of Life perhaps in about how he might be a special person. Yes indeed in many cases. These are the most energetic people because they went off on their own and did something it may be younger as younger people. They didn't want to do for some reason or couldn't (00:13:47) okay. Let's go back to the phones. Good morning. You're on the air. (00:13:49) Yeah. I have a question. I'd college loans probably the percentage and who would qualify I'm in my 50s thinking of law school, and I don't want to use our retirement fund. (00:14:02) There's a wide range of there are wide range of college loans and The Lawns you can qualify like anyone else. The federal government has a wide wide range of loans. There's more loans now than ever and all you really have to do is to call the college that you're interested in and ask for information about the loan programs that they might have the state of Minnesota has and the federal government has but they're they're widely available to people of different ages. I would like you to another point. I'd like to make ma'am is that almost half the people that are even starting college now are beyond the normal traditional 21 or 18, 19, 20 21 ages and more and more adults of every age are going back to school. So all the monies are available to everyone there is an age cutoff and a simple call would get a lot of information for you. (00:14:55) Maybe you could explain the just the basic details of this national service program to his this change the way people can repay. A college loans if they're backed by the government what is specifics on (00:15:04) it? It looks like that's what's going to happen. It's still in the embryonic stage, but it looks like when it emerges full-blown that there's going to be some people not as many as we thought that are going to be able to repay that way. I don't think all the specifics have been ironed out, but that looks like something down is that's a wave of the future for some students and there's more legislation that has to pass Congress forced to know all the detail on that, but that is that is going to be different. I (00:15:30) believe well candidate Bill Clinton certainly talked a lot about that on the way to the White House and it seems as though it is moving ahead. (00:15:37) It is moving ahead. I think he has such a broad agenda that is hard to juggle it all and maybe that isn't ready to juggle yet as much but there will be (00:15:43) something you're listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. This is Mark's a deck like my guest this Saturday is Clifford cane he's the author of how to get into college in the college entrance predictor. He's the director of student services in College counseling at Breck school and Golden Valley and Clifford Kane also serves as a consultant. She specializes in College counseling. We're taking your calls and questions. If you have a question and you're listening in the Twin Cities 2276 thousand is a number to call if you're outside of the Twin Cities, you can reach us at one eight hundred two, four two. 2828 Patty. Good morning. You're on the air and you have a question about improving your child's chance for admission into McAllister. How old is your child (00:16:23) senior senior and absolutely fell in love belatedly with the school the school visit it hand-in-glove just enjoy the culture and everything else and we're wondering if would be admission forms of investment in early decisions have been made and he was accepted on the early decisions very (00:16:40) well. We're going to have to drop off Petty. We just can't hear your question, but we could talk maybe a little bit about what she's a senior and she wants to improve her admission into McAllister and maybe Kitty Isley can get some information from her on the phone too. (00:16:50) Well, of course one of the questions with the McAllister application is whether she's met the deadline and I'm not sure what you said. I think you said she didn't get in on the early. Decision program early admission program McAllister and all the liberal arts schools. I have a close connection with McCallister myself having actually gone to that school in the past will ask for further information about you that make you might make you more appealing. For example, if your child is done better job in school lately has may be achieved an office in an organization Community or School Organization or as done something unique may be served others in some way McAllister strong on that. I present some additional credentials to them and see if they will look at it again. I believe that staff is a very professional one and I believe they would if you got an applications in on time and so on and of course, I didn't hear enough to (00:17:45) know let's take it into the hypothetical of Patty was a junior right now and wanted to ensure that that her parents are whatever wanted to ensure. She could attend McAllister. What would the what steps could she take given? You know, she would now have about a (00:18:01) And a half hour or more the greatest steps, you could take would to improve herself academically the most important thing that are factor that that colleges and universities look at is how well you do in school academically. That's one thing you can do. Secondly you can improve yourself as a person who performs outside of the classroom instead of dabbling in and maybe 10 or 20 clubs pick three or four things do them. Well try to become an officer in the club and try to do something that works out there. Thirdly. You can improve your service to others aspect. I keep emphasizing this perhaps something in your church or synagogue you could do maybe you could serve the poor in some ways Food Shelf do something of that nature. Those would be several things that I would suggest and also on the long run be thinking about a good essay you could write which explores and shows who you are. (00:18:58) Okay. Let's go back to the phones Gary. Good morning. You're on the air. Clifford Kane, (00:19:02) no, thank you. We have a child who has attention deficit disorder. He is medicated known as grades are improving, but for the last several years he's placed in the bottom 14% academically because he can't remember to get a school work done. But when they test them at the end of the year, he's in the top ten percent of his class. Also, he forgot to sign up for the SAT test and the SAT. Classes to prepare for it. I understand that. He has gotten signed up for one later on now any suggestions for a preparatory courses for that (00:19:44) also. Yes, sir. There are a number prepare ettore classes for the SAT and they Huntington Kaplan Princeton Review throughout the Twin Cities opportunities to study with them and have your child sit down and concentrate on the test itself those those are very much advertised in the papers. And I think they have some good programs. Secondly if your child is in a sense learning-disabled. I think you're saying he is there are many many opportunities for people with some kind of a disability learning a disability to go to higher education. A Peterson's guides has a book which suggests the colleges that have programs for people who have some kind of a learning deficit or a problem. For example, some of the large universities like the University of Kansas has special programs for the people like this and I think your child would be well served to sit down and make a search and part of the search can be done by your school. Consular who will have a computer program very proud possibly almost for sure in Minnesota, which will identify these kinds of schools. Those are some of the things that I would emphasize I would also emphasize that you get yourself the booklet on sats and you see where the dates are and you maybe help your child sign up for these at school. (00:21:07) What kind of advice do you have for people who are preparing to take an SAT or an AST? And they're looking for or in they're looking for some kind of a study group or a study guide or a book or whatever are there certain things that separate some study guides are groups that are from others. I mean, there's a market for this here. Obviously, that's pretty large. What can you look for in a good SAT AST (00:21:28) study guide? All right, SAT and ACT study guides are the people that guide you are all important. I think it's important that the people who prep you whether they be consulars 121 or whether it be groups spend a lot of time. In the substance of learning in other words, you sit it down for a number of hours studying vocabulary studying sentence structure making yourself better at doing things and you spend enough time so that you don't think there's a quick fix on it because there really isn't I used to tell people one of the great exercises would be the old Reader's Digest it pays to increase your word power for the verbal and you can get some things like that and what you can do derivations of words and things like that, but it takes several weeks to do it and it's like another course as far as I'm concerned also taking the test very often the people that give you an opportunity to study for those two tests have old tests and they give you an the test and a test situation in which you are timed. I think getting over text test anxiety. Where is one of the biggest things for many many students who don't do so. Well, I think a lot of it simply has to do with reading directions and doing it just fear. (00:22:38) Okay. Let's go back to the phone line Jordy. You're on the air with a question about minority recruiting. (00:22:43) Yes. I was just curious of colleges do still. Actively search for minority students as far as providing (00:22:49) scholarship there has never been a time ma'am in the history of the country in which there was more search for minorities. This is if you are a minority in this includes many people would say all but white males. I'm just sort of kidding here. There are many many many opportunities for you and there are many people would say breaks for you to I think it's an absolutely wonderful time for minority to search and of course, I don't know what kind of minority you're speaking of whether it's racial or whatever but there are tremendous opportunities in this is the way that the school's survive now and become better because there's lots of monies for minorities to how (00:23:32) to minorities find out about this if someone's listening right now and is interested in attending college and would would like some financial aid. (00:23:39) I think the best single source of information about this and many other things in our country and in our state and Our country is calling The Higher Education Coordinating Board in Minnesota. And I think the higher education cording Coordinating Board is probably about a block from the studio here and I think that's really really a good idea. The number that I would suggest that you call is 6122963974 or 1-800 657 (00:24:14) 366 and they'll answer questions about public and private sales the whole (00:24:19) camera. They well, they're the best single Source. They also have a book called focus on financial aid, which is helpful and some other information. It would send out about when minority help. (00:24:29) It's about 30 minutes past eleven o'clock. You're listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio Clifford. Kane is here. He's the author of how to get into college and the college entrance predictor. He's also the director of student services and College counseling at Breck School in Golden Valley, and he is also a consultant who specializes in college. Ling we're taking your calls and questions. If you're in the Twin Cities the numbers 2276 thousand outside of the metropolitan area. You can call with a question at one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight David from Roseville. You're on the air. Good morning. (00:25:00) Yes. My daughter is graduating (00:25:02) from school this year and her mother and I I'm remarried her mother's still single, but I'm wondering since her mother technically call claims her for taxes if I want to apply for state and federal grants. Can I use my financial information sent to my daughter's living with me full time or does it necessarily have to go with her mother (00:25:28) here the custodial parent? Well, it's a shared equal custody situation. Then you're both what you need to do is I would suggest to to call a financial aid office of let's say the University of Minnesota and get some specific information, but as I would understand it if you're sharing it. Both going to pay and if there was one custodial parent and another person who was not there would be another form you would fill out but you'd probably both wind up paying in those cases to it's a very interesting and somewhat complex issue. I'd need to know more and more detail as far as a forms, but you can easily find out by posing the hypothetical to for example, the University of Minnesota Financial Aid people on a college the citizen you don't even have to give your name. (00:26:14) Okay, Laurel in Rochester your next on the air and you have questions about what SAT and ACT stands for and obviously I didn't know what a CT 8ct stood for because I called it AST earlier. You're on the air with your question. (00:26:26) Anyway, yes, I'd also like an explanation of those two tests and what they're used for would a child take both tests one or the other and why (00:26:34) sat is a Scholastic aptitude test. It's sponsored by the College Board. The ACT is American College Testing test and is sponsored by another and rival testing. Group, the first one sat comes out of Princeton New Jersey. The second act comes out of Iowa City. Do you need to take them both? Was that or one or the other? (00:26:54) Yeah, I think (00:26:56) Minnesota and you're in Rochester is an H act State almost every and I think every public school kid in Minnesota takes the ACT many many people in Minnesota take the SAT. For example many schools like Carlton Harvard Pomona giving you skills from different parts of the country who require the the SAT and if your kids are going to apply to such schools. I'll need to take it. I advise strongly that students take them both and this is another picture in mind I think is important to take to a seat. He's to SATs because why because they look at the best score you have nothing to lose. It's a great gamble to take it over more than once. I know your child may say, oh, I don't want to do it again, but I can tell You it can pay off in Spades if the score is get better and with maturity namely moving from being a junior to senior at often does get better. (00:27:54) Okay, and there also are fees associated with taking (00:27:57) these accursed that's a problem to there are some fees but they aren't they aren't outrageous and I that usually is not a problem. And sometimes you can get a fee waiver. If you don't have the money they will give fee (00:28:07) waivers. Okay. Great Karen. Good morning. You're on the air with a question about financial aid for Clifford Kane. (00:28:11) Yes, I guess my question is I've heard parents get frustrated because they have put savings away for many years and then on paper they're worth something, you know, when that they check your financial situation, but my question is then there's the neighbor who they've bought a new house and new cars and new trips. And they've there everything is financed. So on paper they're not worth a lot. So when their child goes to college they get a lot of financial aid and they've lived hi all Years, and then the people who have really skimped and saved for college and haven't bought this new house a new cars and everything. They kind of get punished in a way their child doesn't get the financial aid because they have the savings. Is that true? (00:29:03) Well, there's if you're is the question really is it won't do us any good to see because our savings will reduce our chance to get financial aid. Is there any truth in it? There's a small kernel of Truth in this under current law. The maximum amount of Aid you can lose is five dollars for every hundred dollars of savings. And I'd say that isn't a huge penalty compared with the benefit. These stories are bandied about greatly. I will tell you this the new federal form that is used. By the national government does not include home equity as an asset because there's such a range of meaning of home equity California house this worth $250,000 in California might be worth 80 thousand here and in another 200,000 in Boston, so they do cut some of that inequity out. I would say in general. What I said is specifically true. There isn't a lot of wildly inequitable things in this area. I would suggest saving (00:30:04) okay and then they do say that accounting is more of a fine art than a science. Okay Patty, you're on the air from Winona with a question. Good morning. (00:30:11) Now. I have a question about the National Merit finalists. If a student is a National Merit finalists, and that doesn't mean they've got the scholarship. How does that affect their status in applying especially to the really selective schools? Did they take that into consideration in terms of you know not need based in terms of Apps that aren't need based and what are the odds of a student being a getting a scholarship and what is the scholarship does it depend on the school? They go to (00:30:46) a lot of questions there and it's a lot of answers from different schools. But let me let me tell you this be a National Merit finalist sets you apart from the rest sets a child apart from the west of the rest of the applying base. I might indicate to you that in order to become a National Merit finalist. You have to take the PSAT in the fall of your junior year and finishing the top one percent or so of the population of your state. Once you get there, there's a good chance of getting some kind of a scholarship for many different schools. Some schools will just give you a perfunctory $1000 scholarship because they don't give a lot of Aid in other words. Merit-based Aid non need-based Aid there are others that will give huge scholarships as a factor in the National Merit qualification with other. Vacations for your student there's a wide range of interest in possibility in this area and I would just make a one one point blank statement. I believe your child will get some kind of AIDS Aid with a National Merit Scholarship. I really believe it will happen, but I can't tell you how much depends on what school they're applying to (00:31:54) your listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. This is Mark zdechlik in the studio. Today is Clifford cane he's the author of how to get to college in the college entrance predictor. He serves as the Director of student services and College counseling at Breck school and Golden Valley. He is also a consultant who specializes in College counseling if you have a question about colleges and universities how to pay for them how to find the one you want to be in and how to ensure that you can get in the one you want to be in call us at two to seven six thousand. If you're listening inside the Twin Cities metropolitan area anywhere outside of the Twin Cities that you can hear this broadcast. You can call us toll free with your question for Clifford Cain at one eight hundred two four two two. A28, we have a we don't have another caller holding apparently. Well, I wanted to ask you this now we here at some advertisements and see some of these things in print from the Minnesota private college Council talking about their four-year graduation rate that 59 percent I think is the latest number they have of their students on average graduate within four years and they compare that to the graduation rate at the some of the state's public schools at the University of Minnesota. For example, they tell us that 15% just 15% system-wide of their students graduate in four years 39 and five years only 50% and eight years are we not making a bit of an apples and oranges comparison when you compare a student who might be working his way through school at the University of Minnesota and somebody who might be attending Carlton (00:33:25) with all due respect of my many friends in the private Callie sector in Minnesota. Yes, we are and I believe that in many cases. They're completely different kinds of students the Minnesota has Minnesota has a quarter system in which people friends even way back when I went to college would would go school a quarter work a quarter and struggle her way through or choose to go to school that way. Yes, sir. That is true. There is another truth to and that is it large public universities are having a hard time putting together the kind of course load in which kids can get enough courses for the 4-year graduation the average I think in the country now for a large university has five years or more to get through because of some cutbacks. Also, I'm not speaking specifically of the University of Minnesota at this point. And yes, they are different students in many cases. There is a grain of truth to it. There is a tendency certainly for kids to Center in a small college and getting through in four years because that's the way it's presented to (00:34:25) them a little more to that number though than just. Oh, yes exact person. (00:34:28) Absolutely. Absolutely. (00:34:30) Okay. Another thing I want to ask we have about 20 minutes left in this broadcast. But what about a high school student? Whose parents want that student to be attending college after the student graduates who wants to take a year off and travel or do something else de parents have a good argument. If they tell the student that look if you do that your chances of getting into college you're going to be hurt and also maybe our their fears legitimate in some cases that if the student takes one year off the student might be less likely to go back to the books. (00:34:58) Certainly. There are some fears Mark in certain cases at the student will just take off and run and do something else but in most cases in my experience, I find that some that the students need a year off or would like to do something else in there. Very many other things to explore. I have also found when students come back after the year. They very often do much better. It's sort of a variation on the person coming back from the wars and being more mature and that quite it isn't it isn't exactly similar but have it being more mature somebody coming back from a job for a year and finding what the world is like and realizing you needs to go to school. He's more mature. He's more He or she probably is going to do a better job. I would think that a concert after studying this if they decide and agree with the parent would say yeah, this is going to be a good job a good idea for for this person because it isn't a frivolous idea if it's frivolous and of course you got a whole other set of problems. This (00:35:52) is midday on Minnesota Public Radio Clifford. Kane is here talking about colleges and universities and we'll go back to the phone lines. Good morning. You're on the air with a question. Well, hello. (00:36:01) Um, I've been receiving information on different forms of helping me on the SAT and ACT and one of the things are flash cards. Are they more beneficial than the books are or should I stick with the books that I've been around? (00:36:18) So it sounds like we have a studio. Would you give us a little more information? Where are you calling from? And where are you trying to get into school? And what kind of preparations have you been taking in preparation for taking the SAT. I mean, have you been in a study group or (00:36:32) I haven't started much because I've just been starting to look at taking the test. I'm in Morris Minnesota and I'm planning on going to a private school of some for year. (00:36:44) And are you senior and Junior? Okay. Well, I just wanted to ask that question many students (00:36:49) calling sometimes the use of flash cards can be very helpful depends on your style of learning. What I would do if I could would be to get into some Preparatory course or to get a copy. Slur and and let them look at your learning style before you can make that decision. What how do you learn best? But certainly for if you the flash Cache can be part of it. I think there's more to it than flashcards. So I think you need to sit down and study the books and do some as I said earlier in the program do some some studies over time in certain areas and maybe take some of the tests early on as practice. (00:37:23) Is that enough information for you? Is that answer your question? Thank you very much. Okay. Thank you Doug from a Claire. You're on the air with a question. (00:37:31) Yes. You thought a lot about the undergraduate education. I'm a physically disabled person who would be interested in going back to get a graduate degree and I see lots of advertisement or solicitations about like computerized searches for scholarships and fellowships and that kind of stuff and you give specific information for people who are interested in graduate school who are physically disabled and about those search firm. (00:37:54) I think that (00:37:56) In general the people that sell the search are selling material that's available publicly on all kinds of computer databases. I think you can find it in a university. You can find the programs without having to spend any money and I think that it isn't a good it. I don't think it is a very good way of spending your money. I would also suggest that if you got some information if you are a person who is physically handicapped and office that you might call would be the Department of Jobs and training rehabilitation services and that would be and let me just take out your pen if you were this is a this is an organization that might help you a great deal. The number is 1-800-308-3515 5 and that's a government office. I think that would help you a great deal, but I wouldn't buy any (00:38:49) service probably get some information once again to from the higher education (00:38:52) coordinator. Absolutely. (00:38:53) Well, okay Amy from st. Paul you're on the air. Good (00:38:55) morning. Q I was wondering how you should evaluate independent College counselors and what sorts of services you should expect to receive if you go that route. (00:39:07) I think one of the important things in evaluating the independent Consular is whether he or she has had experience working at college or high school admissions offices or doing the kind College counseling in a high school. That's number one. Number two, whether he or she has a long a great amount of experience in the field and has worked successfully with other people. You should get references who have they helped in what have they done thirdly make sure that they work hand-in-hand with your high school that they don't put themselves up as being so special that they don't even take into consideration where your child goes to school and fourthly that they are able to work like work like an English teacher with your essays and so on and try to try to help you in a very substantive way and fifthly that they've traveled a lot and seeing a lot of colleges and know what's out there (00:40:02) Clifford came. This is obviously part of your business art. Is this a growing industry (00:40:07) yes it is I think that one of the problems these days is if people are so overwhelmed in the public schools that sometimes they can't give the individual attention or in some private schools to the individual attention to students College needs and some of the best people I know are high school counselors that have loads of 500 kids and they just simply can't do it all and they shouldn't be expected to so sometimes an independent counsel can fill in some of the holes and do a little (00:40:33) bit well on top of the ást ást test and the SAT test and the fees for applying to schools what can someone expect to pay if they decide to hire a private Consultants such as yourself and I'm not asking you to go through your rates but give me a range of what if somebody's interested in getting the help of a private independent college counselor what's that going to cost them (00:40:53) I think it can cost anywhere from a one meeting of fifty to a hundred dollars to a whole job of perhaps up to $1,500 I simply don't know Lower rates of people charged if you run east or west coast you could probably spend as much as two or three but I think I think that in the midwest that I'm probably quite correct between $1,500 for one meeting and between a thousand and two thousand dollars for the whole job. (00:41:23) OK Clifford Cain is the guest you're listening to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. This is Mark zdechlik J from Browns Valley. You're on the air with a question for Clifford Kane. (00:41:32) Yes, I graduated from a university law for years ago in my wife also, and we're considering going on for a master's degree were kind of ready to do that. What type of resources are available for people that want to do that? (00:41:49) The the opportunity when you take a master's degree, you might all time. You might get the same you'll get the same resources in many ways that you get taking a ba you could get work study programs. You might become an an assistant to a department. There will be work around the campus. There are a number of Scholarship opportunities which Higher Education Coordinating Board can can tell you about I think you have a wide range of opportunity for help. They do want to help and many of the public universities around here to give quite a bit of help. Yes, you do have opportunity. (00:42:23) What about going the route of fellowship? (00:42:27) And of course there is always the opportunity to get a merit based scholarship. There are National fellowships. If you were particularly Adept at something in your undergraduate program and you wanted knew what you were going to study you can apply for a number of fellowships and these fellowships will be listed in the materials that you would get from The Higher Education Coordinating Board or from the University or college that you wish to (00:42:52) attend. Okay. Let's go back to the phones Mary Lou from Wilmer. You're on the air with a question for Clifford (00:42:58) Kane. Yeah. What college is I thought it would you recommend it for a student who wants to major in science? And how do we go about evaluating those? (00:43:08) Science in Minnesota, which ones (00:43:10) there isn't it? There isn't a better state for great science programs. I'm not going to be exhaustive in this and I and of course you understand if I mentioned one or two College, I'll be omitting others. I'll just give you a few that I think do a good job in science. I think Carleton College does a great job. I think McAllister does a great job. I think seeing all of does an excellent job. I think that the University of Minnesota Twin Cities does a tremendous job. I think for example Concordia in Moorhead does a fine (00:43:42) job. Is there some sort of independent rating of the closet if you're interested in music, you could look at the college's in Minnesota and see which ones are rated at what level for music or science or arts or (00:43:53) well it's pretty hard to really rate them. There is anything that really gives them that precise a rating they tend to rate the college and Toto but you do know as a consular which schools have strong programs. Most of the schools have tremendous programs. I was Going to give you an idea of something that I thought were particularly good. I think st. John's is very good too. I don't think you're going to find the precise rating system depends on the kind of science science covers a multitude of possibilities. Is it biological? Is it what kind of science (00:44:23) is it? Okay, let's go back to the phones and sori in Eagan. You're on the air good (00:44:28) morning under a post-secondary system High School seniors are permitted to go to the university on a part-time basis to complete some of the course requirement but is it better for them to go to the Community College because they can get more individual attention while some people frown upon it second question is about be a MD program. Is it a sure bet to get into a medical college? Thank you. (00:44:59) Okay. I I think the the well, let's go with the first question. He's talking about college or high school students taking college courses. I Let's go with (00:45:09) that. Yes, the question I guess was whether to go to the University of Minnesota or Community College. I think you should examine the particular course and find out which looks better. I send I know a lot of kids or students who go on to the university and for example math courses, which are excellent. I know students who go to Normandale because of the strong biology course, I try to pick out the courses and send them to those courses when I know about which are better than others, but I think they're both very fine. The experience in Minnesota is that students do well in both community colleges and universities and the university and I'm not trying to escape your question. I'm saying look at the course don't look at the (00:45:51) college and I think the the second part of that or the second question was is it a is are you can have a better chance of getting in an MD program if it's associated with a ba MD program (00:46:04) There are such things as be a MD programs that work together. Northwestern has a seven-year program. Once you get in to be a you're almost assured of going through the MD. There are a number of those seven year programs in the country and most cases because you take a ba at a place doesn't have anything to do whether you go in to get into the medical school. In fact, most people for example that go to a particular University for their be a will go elsewhere for the MD. They aren't (00:46:31) connected as you talk to your students and the some of the people that you are counseling independently through your Consulting service. Are there particular careers that are real popular now that weren't popular a few years ago in our their careers that may be a couple of years ago were very popular that people really don't frankly have as much interested in today (00:46:50) one. One of the great career areas right now is a whole area of telecommunications and Communications in general whether it be print or Media or whatever kind of Journalism would be this is a very A popular thing because the country is going that way. Let's face it also a certain kind of engineering AT&T cut their staff by think 15% because they don't need as many people they need more they need they can handle it because they have more telecommunications. I think that's one of the big ones another area this really becoming a lot more popular is teaching. It looks like teachers are going to get paid more perhaps and that the country is on a surge toward a new look at education. I think those are some that are really popular right now. (00:47:37) This gentleman obviously was interested in an in an MD program given changes in healthcare is that becoming less popular maybe less glamorous to be a physician in the 90s and it was in the 50s 60 to 70. (00:47:49) I think that people thinking about medicine are on the cusp. They don't know what's going to happen to health care, but it isn't quite as popular as it was. I do think that there is a surge toward the family physician idea the idea of having a bedside manner. More and more people are demanding a doctor who not only can do the procedure but can hold the hand and I think people that are liberally educated doctors are going to be in great demand no matter what kind of a program we have in our (00:48:15) country. Okay back to the phones Gene from Medina. Thanks for waiting here on the are no, good morning. (00:48:20) Yes. I'm interested. I have a son who has expressed an interest in fine arts program specifically in Europe, and I'm wondering what the procedure is for finding schools in Europe. How well do you need to know the language and to whom would you turn for that and I'll hang up and listen? Thank you. (00:48:38) I think you have a good question. I can even give you a name of a school or too many many times the Fine Arts programs in Europe and European colleges are based on an American model. The American college in Paris. For example uses the European continent as a Fine Arts Workshop almost and that would be one school that I would suggest you look at others Franklin in Lugano Switzerland. These are all American base College. With English spoken and also an opportunity to learn a second language. There are they are listed in most American college books and pretty readily available to books during find a listing of some of these schools and all they don't have to go into the European University and go through American and then learn it from there. (00:49:23) Okay, just a couple of more minutes left for this edition of midday on Saturday Clifford Cain is the guests and we're talking about getting into colleges and universities. Let's get to the people who are on the phone if we can in the remaining couple of minutes Margaret from Cannon Falls, good morning, you're on the air. (00:49:37) Good morning. I have a son who is a senior and all of a sudden he was writing about science before and he's talking about art and graphic arts. Now. I don't know how good a career that possibility that is, but are there some smaller type schools either private or public or both? That would be good in that field. Also either as a major or as a minor (00:49:57) I would say this since he's talked so widely about both things. I sent him to a liberal arts institution where he can examine his interest in both areas. Is and I think that most of the schools in Minnesota the four-year colleges do well in both areas. I wouldn't I wouldn't really worry about it yet until he is more specific liberal arts is a wave of the future because most kids now are going to change their careers 428 X as the way the research looks so that's what I would have him do just choose a good liberal arts school in Minnesota and there's about 25 of (00:50:25) them. Okay. Let's go to Cannon White Bear Lake. (00:50:29) Yes, sir. I'm just calling. Mr. Kane to let him know that we're in the process of finding and deciding on schools for twin daughters and they're coming out of schools competitive schools of his Breck and just to let you know that when you're talking about a 42 a hundred and twenty thousand dollar investment per child College Counseling Services, obviously at a few hundred or even a thousand dollars or a pretty good investment. I'd also like to comment that we did use one of the scholarship mail-order services and found that to be very valuable. $79. So the amount of information we got was was very worthwhile. I would just wondering how you folks decided that that type of thing was not good across the board. I hear that quite often from our counselor and I don't necessarily agree. I'll (00:51:20) not let's take that kind of running out of time Clifford (00:51:23) Kane most of the computer information. You have it a high school covers the material that the $79 person would have and you can do a run of the scholarships at your at your school be a public or private and get the same information. That's been our experience. If you got a good one, that's wonderful. (00:51:40) Okay on that. We're going to have to wrap up this edition of midday. We've been talking about colleges and universities this hour with Clifford cane Clifford cane rather the author of how to get into college in the college entrance predictor. Thanks for being here Clifford cane and thanks to all of you who listened and called in with questions the technical directors for this program were Clifford Bentley and Mike Osborne Kitty Isley produced this Saturday's midday, and we had research assistance from Risa Collies, thanks. Once again for joining us. I'm Mark zdechlik. Midday on Saturday is supported by the oriental rug company specializing in sales and service of handmade oriental rugs and located in Minneapolis at 50th and Bryant.