(00:00:00) This of course is tournament time in Minnesota the gymnastics and high school wrestling tournaments have already crowned Champions. The hockey tournament is underway this weekend in the Twin Cities Tier 1 at the Civic Center tier 2 at the Target Center and course the girls and boys basketball tournaments are still coming up the last two weekends of the month. It is a big time for the kids the schools and fans as well and we thought it would be a good time to take a look at the role of Athletics in our schools joining us to to discuss that issue to officials from the State High School league Dorothy McIntyre and Skip Peltier both of whom are associate executive directors of the league and also joining us is Minneapolis Washburn High School basketball coach Lewis Boone who teaches social studies at Ramsey Junior High in Minneapolis subject today the role of Athletics in the schools. And first of all, I know virtually nothing about the financing of Athletics anymore. I suppose do the tournaments. I know they make a lot of money or seem to make a lot of money. They raised all the money. It's that's spent in the school system on Athletics. Skippy want to take that one. Well, I can only really address the tournaments as they relate to the funding of the Minnesota State High School league activities. We currently sponsor 26 athletic programs for boys and girls and six Fine Arts activities those activities that are sponsored by the high school league our finance strictly through tournament Revenue in a small share through registration fees of member schools for membership of the tournaments that we sponsor and we sponsor 32 state tournaments or contest festivals five actually generate Revenue that allow us to sponsor the remaining State High School league activities. So we hope to make money on basically soccer football volleyball girls and boys basketball and hockey and those activities really Finance all the activities including debate Fine Arts music Speech things that probably typically most people don't really associate with High School league Dorothy McIntyre the kind of the day in day out operations at schools. How do they get paid for if somebody wants to participate to the kids have to pay an activity feed these days well in some schools, they've established participation fees for the students and in other schools, they have none and it's something that is left to the school. That's a local school policy to determine is it turn out that in those areas where activity fees are charged that a lot of kids from poor families aren't allowed to really can't participate or other fees sufficiently low that really anybody could participate. Well, I think the schools have established a process so that if if there is a student who is in need that they have a process that they can address that so that the students wouldn't be eliminated from participation Perhaps Love Louis might have some insight on how many apples addresses that Well in Minneapolis, it's left up to the individual school. But each student in our building pays $25 per sport to participate in as Dorothy mention. There's no student that's eliminated become because of their inability to pay. So there are various ways that they can work if I could just add into I think in terms of budgeting at local school level, I believe the athletic budget usually runs between 1.9 and 2% of the General Revenue funds for a school district. So you're talking a very small amount of money to fund an extremely large number of opportunities for kids to participate in both Athletics and Fine Arts and my background in the school system that I came from. We tied our athletic fees for participation to school lunch program. So those students who were entitled to free or reduced lunch programs their fees were waived. So I think there's a lot of Accommodation and concern about the ability to pay and not trying to exclude people from high school activities because of financial considerations. Do you folks think that too much emphasis is placed on Athletics in the school system to the detriment of academics. Coach Boone. I don't think so. I think the benefits that young people gain out of that legs far exceed any kind of negatives Associated to their participation. Like what are we you know the old thing character building and that sort of thing or well that's a start character building being able to take Direction being able to get along with others being able to participate in pressure situations as many people do on their jobs being able to handle stress being able to budget time because it is a juggling act between their academics and their athletic participation. So those are just a few benefits in there. I just named just a few around the state when schools are facing budget crunches isn't there a tendency though to pair back a lot on athletic programs or not? So what happens right now in st. Paul? There's been some talk about cutting back substantially and athletic programs. True around the state or do they tend to protect the athletic budget steady the expense of some other things? Well, I think the the school's understandably have placed the education as their first priority in the costs that are involved with with their schools, but they also realize that the values of Athletics in the extracurricular program are such that they try to incorporate those into consider how to how to offer both and in most cases schools have done an excellent job in being able to provide a balanced program perhaps in some cases. They might like to be able to offer more but their responsibility is a total education and we think in Minnesota. They don't an excellent job of doing that our guests today are skip Peltier and Dorothy McIntyre from the State High School league and Louis Boone who coaches basketball at to Minneapolis Washburn High School in Minneapolis. We're talking about Athletics in the schools and the role of Athletics in the school system. We've got a caller on the line with the question higher on Minnesota Public Radio. (00:06:22) I guess my concern Is that I'd like to see more focus in the schools on individual fitness programs rather than the competitive Sports, especially in the younger grades, you know, like K through 6, especially just it just seems like kids have so much competition in their lives. And and I just I just don't think the team sport, you know do a lot to Foster that I guess I'll just hang up and listen on your (00:06:50) comment. What do you think about that? Well, I would tend to agree in a sense that we do need more aerobic movement type of activities for the younger students say in a lot of situations. They don't have the outlet during the course of the day to really get themselves moving in maybe expend some of that energy that they've got built up. I also see a void in the Junior High in Middle High Junior High and Middle School Participation there's a definite need for the students to have an outlet and in many cases their only means of Outlet is the physical education courses that they take and often those are not year-round courses. So in a sense I would tend to agree. Do we start sorting out the kids too early in life where by golly if by seven eight years old, you can't you can't skate very well. You're out you're not going to make that traveling team and you better go find something else to do think. It's a danger we have to watch out for I think the caller's question was a good question and I tend to agree with her premise that we perhaps start competition a little bit too early with too much emphasis and focus on winning as the end result rather than development of individual skills and Fitness in general I think would be everyone's ideal to picture their program in a pyramid the younger the kids that are involved the Our base of involvement you want to have and you want to develop skills that young level so that they have an opportunity to see how the game is played in to learn the skills. And then as you get older and come up through the ranks, so to speak you've acquired the skills that make you want to be at a more competitive level. I really believe that in an elementary schools. You ought to be worried about the skills of the game and Junior High and ideal program would be an intramural program with broad-based participation number of opportunities. No specialization. And then in the high school you can decide this is the area of these are the areas I would like to focus on but I don't think we do a service to kids or programs when we identify hockey players at age five and say we put them on a track that they have to play hockey year-round if they're going to make the high school team. I think it does a disservice to everyone including the hockey program at the high school level and gymnastics likewise or basketball kid. Go to export your experience a wide variety of activities and emphasis on skill development and fitness not on winning and losing 20 trophies down in the trophy case isn't going to make a difference to the kid who's burned out when they're in high school and decides to leave a program because they just had too much of it and too great an emphasis on winning Dorothy. What's happening with the girls Athletics now, I have they taken a different turn as they've developed in the school system or are they primarily focused in much the same way as the boys sports have traditionally been on that, you know the winning and so on are they taking a different tract? Well, we have we have the same pyramid in mind when we develop girls Athletics that we would build off an intramural program and an extramural program with some occasional competition then move up into the interscholastic in the process of that many of the intramural programs cease to exist and that has been a loss that we Using our schools to rebuild back into the program particularly. I think it's important that young women and girls at that Elementary level receive the encouragement to participate we see large numbers at the lower elementary level and then as they get into the Adolescent some of the drop-off in numbers and we're concerned about that because with all the benefits of Athletics has to offer we must continue to encourage young women to participate up through the well throughout their life, but certainly up through that High School level and some of the studies are showing that we need to approach the young women in a little different way. Make sure they feel welcome and invited and and is also to design activities that they're truly interested in lots of callers on the line with questions hire a Minnesota Public (00:11:10) Radio. I have a question about the relationship of High School league. With a national governing bodies of other sports. I'm speaking about soccer particularly, and I know what that relationship is, but I'm wondering if you have a relationship with other National governing bodies or local chapters of national governing bodies such as wrestling or whatever like (00:11:34) Q we do we seek to maintain a close relationship with the local bodies who deal with amateur Athletics. We are a member of the national Federation of High School athletic association's they interact very closely with the national governing bodies. We develop policies that are consistent members of the national governing body serve on our rule committees. We are serving in a capacity in an advisory capacity to those National governing bodies. We also meet here locally with like the Minnesota Youth Soccer Association other kinds of organizations a you the deal with the same programs that we are so that we are not working at odds, but rather working to provide the greatest number of opportunities for kids in both environments without creating problems for their participation. So we do we don't serve on any of their boards nor would they We're going to any of our boards, but we do work very closely with them. Let's take another caller. Hi, you're on Minnesota Public Radio your question. (00:12:41) Yes, I'm curious about the policy of having junior high students playing on high school teams expressly when it denies other high school students those positions and it's my understanding. It's quite widespread for seventh and eighth graders will be pulled up into a high school team to develop them at a earlier level to participate in high school. But yet what that does is that takes away positions mother high school students are like know what the policy is afraid. There isn't a policy that would stop something like that. (00:13:14) Okay, Coach Boone. Have you heard of that? Oh, yes. I've heard of that. I have to lie. I'd like to know the I know the policy in Minneapolis, but Statewide, I don't think there's any restrictions for Young 7th and 8th graders that are physically ready to participate. I don't think they're restricted. Manner I can I can address the question from the high school league our policy is that we sponsor high school programs when we say high school. We were talking about students who are in grades 10 through 12. So our programs really addressed that particular Target group. We have a dialogue that allows local schools to make the policy available for determine whether or not kids and seven through nine have the opportunity to participate in high school teams. Keep in mind that we have a real diverse population of schools schools of smallest 27 kids in grades 10 through 12 to schools as large as 2800 and each of those schools have to address whether or not Junior High School students should be eligible to play in high school team. I think our our philosophy would be that in some sports team sports were numbers are controlled. It's probably not advisable for The the ninth graders to participate on that team if the removing an opportunity from an upperclassman in other sports swimming or wrestling where individuals may not be taking the place of another athlete but fill a void then we need to be flexible enough to allow the individual school to decide how they handle that. I think we're talking about many different elements in making that decision the maturity the physical stature of the person that may be promoted to a high school level academic standing. I think are all real important questions to ask prior to allowing a seventh the eighth or ninth grader to play off and I would hope that schools would be would have a policy to deal with it have a Review Committee to review each case individually because I think it does a lot of elements to take into consideration not every seventh grader regardless of their physical ability can participate at a varsity level and I think that's something that we should all be concerned about but allow flexibility. I was going to say I think The years the traveling Concepts young people are participating earlier and I think it's preparing them for the competition of High School athletic team. Is there a is there a chance that sometime down the road here? We're not going to have school based athletic programs anymore that all of the all the athletic programs are going to be these kind of traveling units or Youth Center based operation something like that Dorothy you see that in the future at all. Well, I hope not because I think that the extracurricular programs are very vital part of a school that model that we've seen in Europe of Club programs outside the schools may work very well, but I think in our in our state in Minnesota and in our neighboring states, we believe it's a very vital part of the program and that if we need to make some sacrifices and some revisions to keep it in the program under today's conditions. That we should do. So because it it adds a Vitality in an opportunity and as we call it the other half of Education or talking Sports in the schools today here on midday our guests Dorothy McIntyre and Skip Peltier from the Minnesota State High School league and Louis Boone, who is a basketball coach Washburn High School in Minneapolis. This is of course the time of the year when we think a lot about these kind of things the hockey tournament is underway in the Twin Cities and the basketball tournaments coming up and so a good time to talk about about the subject matter callers on the line with the question. (00:17:07) Hi, I have a comment on what you were. I agree with what you're saying as far as pulling kids up if they're capable and if they're not displacing a high school student my question though is on policy of not giving every student in high school who wants to play the opportunity to try out and be seen in a theft and the process of hand selecting certain kids coming up and giving them again the opportunity to participate play at a higher rate to the exclusion again of other students who should have the opportunity to at least show their strengths and their abilities and have the opportunity to try out and I just want to hear you comment on (00:17:46) that coach. How does that work in your school situation? I would agree that every young person that wants to try out should be given the opportunity. The one should be excluded. It's in our situation. We have an open tryout situation that every young person can come in and display their skills and we have three coaches that The town that's there and it's always difficult to make those kinds of decisions and some coaches do make mistakes, but it's not intentionally done. We want to feel that the young person has been given every opportunity to make the team and I would agree and one that's totally against any kind of exclusion of people that want to participate. So I would like to see an expansion of rather than the exclusion of and I think Skip hit on something with the intramural program. I've seen a decline of the intramural program in schools and that would be a perfect opportunity include more young people and starting in the junior high setting and working through High School. You look at the ramifications of students not participating and taking those kinds of opportunities the way I think they far outweigh the little the money that might have to be expended to expand programs. So is there much recruiting that goes on at the The high school level for the various Sports. I mean if somebody knows of a real Hotshot, I don't soccer player. Whatever in one school, man. Well, you know, we got that open enrollment program on to come over here and we'll make make a star out of you. Does that happen a lot? I think that's real difficult to assess open enrollment really opened up the doors in 1988 1989 to the movement of students by choice for what they perceive to be an advantage that they did not have in their own school. We have a by law that would prohibit recruiting. It's called undue influence if students enrollment in a school is unduly influenced the school can suffer a penalty as well as the athlete who was recruited. So we do have we believe to be prohibitions in place, but it's real difficult to cut through the Open Enrollment and this in a secondary enrollment options. Currently, there are 18 state laws that allow students to migrate from one school to another without establishing a reason and and certainly without prohibiting them to transfer for athletic reasons. And so it's real difficult to identify. If I those students who may or may not have been recruited in addition. I don't think it's our schools that do the talking. But how do you control parents talking about how great a particular school is what a great opportunity participating on this school's basketball team or volleyball team or girls gymnastics team was and someone looks at that and has a goal to be in a state tournament would be on a great team and they migrate to that school. It's real difficult to get to the heart of what initiated that students interest in that particular school. And and what was the reason that ultimately led to the transfer? So it's real difficult. We have prohibitions in place. I can say this that in the years that I've been with a high school league and prior to that time. We've had to allegations in in my time with the league. None have been verified that recruiting has taken place. So it's an interesting questions on going what's wrong with that. If you're a kid who is who really has some exceptional skills in your living near a school or would normally go to a school that just doesn't have very good program and you really would like to develop those skills. We talk all the time about striving for excellence in a society and so on Dorothy what's wrong with the kid packing up and moving to or going at least going to a different school? Well, I think within the parameters of that the state has said in its laws of students being able to move and and the purpose of Athletics. There's a healthy balance in there in that we think students ought to be representing the schools where they live and in their area and In many ways perhaps shopping for athletics might be like shopping for a school, but there is a difference and I think that what we've been trying to do with the State High School league is to establish the rules and in conjunction with the state laws that keep a balance so that indeed students are representing the schools where they live. Had a caller on the line with a question. Hi. (00:22:33) Hi, I've got a couple of comments to make the thing that got me to call was the question that I believe you asked for. You said is there too much emphasis being placed on Sports and I've had I felt both extremes as a kid. I felt like the kid that was required to sit in the bleachers and cheer for my classmates when I would like to bend the star and there I see the real significance and importance of developing a healthy intramural program for the self-esteem of all the kids in the school and a intramural program were the varsity players would be leaders not excluded from the program. I think there could be real development developmental growth for the athletes The Varsity athletes as well as the well what we might call the the non-athletic type of student being able to appreciate the sports in addition to that. I'd like to say that having children now especially children in the in the teenage years who Hard to control when I was a kid. There was a there was a stick at home. There was a belt there was there was some physical threat if I didn't obey today we send our kids to school and whether they go to school or not. It's kind of hard to enforce and having this carrot having Sports. There is a this a Salvation for one of my children right now. So I have to say that it's been real important where before I thought maybe it was just an emphasis being on push the button with the computer and throw the ball. That's all of its schools were I've got to say I do appreciate Sports for the carrot that it provides to keep my kid involved in school and it's that may I say one more comment, please real quickly. I think parents have to recognize the importance that Sports programs are going to have on their children's overall development in to get involved in to recognize what's going on because this is really affecting them and if the parent is involved in that big effect on the children Development they're missing out on a big part of their responsibility. (00:24:34) Let me ask you a question. If you still online. Yep. I was just curious the child that that has is maintained interest in the school's largely because of Athletics is that carried over them to the academics to? Yep. (00:24:46) So you have to maintain a certain eligibility to put participate in academic eligibility, right? Okay, great. (00:24:54) Somebody had to and appreciation of his comments that the students also when they are participating look for their parents up in the stands and and time and again, we hear them talking about how important it is for the support of their parents when they are participating and competing and so, you know, the circle goes around it's not only just the students enjoying that chance to challenge themselves, but it's also a chance for a family to network and to be together which is hard to do in today's world, but sometimes those games become a place where they can get together and they can talk. Things and share a real mutual interest coach Boone from your experience parental involvement. Mostly A Plus or a minus because of course parents have been known to put the squeeze on the coaches and the athletic directors and sometimes it gets kind of nasty. I think parents must they need to be involved and they should show interest in what their young people are doing. I understand and appreciate your statement about putting the squeeze on I think we have to keep it into perspective and look at the broader perspective of what their young people are gaining out of the participation and not just go into it for a scholarship or go into it for a possible opportunity to play professional ball. You have to keep that in the perspective of how few people gain gain that opportunity. So we've got to look at all of the benefits of playing and not just their young person take another caller. (00:26:29) Hi. I've got a two-fold question one is a relative of mine is a teacher and my interest is wandering out how cost effective per student that is a able to participate in a sport. How cost effective is that for the school budgets? And the other one is since they've instituted this thing in the public schools, which is supposed to be an opportunity for all students to participate irrelevant of their financial status. I think by adding a cost in there for them to be enrolled in it has eliminated some kids particularly middle-class kids where the parents are just making ends meet they don't qualify for any of these programs the kids want to be involved. But when you're talking about putting out additional money, I know some of the sports activities out where we live can run up into the hundreds of dollars. I think that's very unfair because the only ones then the can participate are those that Are virtually on welfare or very limited income or those that are wealthy and can afford it. I mean, we can't even afford the hot lunch program and then to sit and look and listen to our kids want to be involved in things and unable to provide that for (00:27:46) them. Yeah, except you want to take a crack at down. Sure first. I think we have to distinguish between participating in high school activities at the high school and participating in local community athletic association's I think there is a significant cost differential and go back to my experience as a school administrator and in a school district in the metropolitan area and I did a cost analysis on participation at the high school level taking our total budget including Transportation coaching supplies and the equipment in the cost to go to games not including the coach's salary, but the cost per participant was seventeen to twenty dollars on average four. Participant to be involved in high school activities for that year. That's a real minor cost in terms of the amount of money and the benefit provided much different than those kids who are in community athletic programs. I have three nephews and in hockey program that costs about $1,500 for each of them to play hockey for the season, and I think we have seen hundred dollars fifty her Killers per kid for the hockey season what well go ahead and Foods is and uniforms those kinds of things, but great difference between the community costs in high school cause I don't think we want to get confused on we don't have jurisdiction on the community programs there run independently. We only deal with the high school. But again, I'll go back to a comment that I made earlier that if you took a look at the general funds going to Athletics and Fine Arts in the school. You're talking about 1.9 to two percent maximum of the school's general fund budget and I think that's pretty minimal. And so I think the costs to participate even even in a school where they have participation funds or registration fees for sport. It's generally 25 to 40 dollars to play a sport. I know it's a lot cheaper to play high school hockey than it is to play Community hockey for your local community. Is it difficult for the kids to get back and forth? I think it used to be that you were going to school relatively close to where you live, but that doesn't seem to be the case so much anymore. A lot of people are are busting across the cities and the suburbs of spread out and so on is that difficult for for a lot of kids to actually get to school and then get home after practice and so on is that limit participation? My experience it hasn't been difficult for the young people to get to and from school. So I don't see that being a problem most schools. Run what's called activity buses at when schools dismissed at two o'clock or three o'clock. They'll take the the majority of the students home. And then the athletes will stay in practice and they'll run an activity bus still run five o'clock or six o'clock and it won't be as many buses in the stops would be a little more sporadic and spread out but they've provided transportation for athletes who stayed after for practice and other activities take another caller. Hi, you're on Minnesota Public (00:30:57) Radio. Yes a question. I do competitive intervarsity Sports best serve the entire student population I'm asking is what is the percentage roughly? If you have such up students involved in these inner Varsity Sports as compared to the total number of high school students and equity in an earlier sentiment what emphasis Really is being directed towards training individuals for lifelong Fitness special with the Health crisis or cost of Health crisis being such a common issue and just an observation wouldn't it be wonderful if such enthusiasm promotion and media attention is currently being directed to the high school hockey tournament is also displayed and recognize towards local and Statewide academic achievements. That's it. (00:31:50) Okay, thank you. Well percentage of kids in sports. I think in studies that we've conducted at the high school league show about 55 percent of the students in high school are participating in high school activities, whether they're athletic or Fine Arts. So a very high percentage of students participating in after-school activities, the importance I believe is in Dorothea looted. To the family, it becomes a network. It becomes a focus where particularly in today's society where we see many to parent or single parent or both parents are working. It brings the family together gives them the focus and an evening where they can watch feel part of what their child is doing and gives them something to talk about and so I think that's good on the larger Community the community of the school. It gives a focus for the school gives a real identity. I think the caller makes a good point. Would it be wonderful to have the same emphasis in the same media attention to your Academic Program? It'd be great. Unfortunately that doesn't happen. What does happen is the athletic programs are highlighted but it brings attention to things at the school are doing in a positive nature to contribute to the community contribute to the growth and development of the students. Unfortunately, the media doesn't have an academic page, but maybe this is one way to lead people to To the other benefits of that school and I would agree I think would be great to emphasize the wonderful physics programs in school because I think there are a lot of wonderful things going on in schools. We need to find a better Avenue for that to happen maybe to Athletics and participation in Fine Arts. We begin to open doors for greater opportunities for promotion of what's really happening in the school or get bring people into the school. I think we need to also recognize that there's another exposure beyond that of media and the in the community and that's what happens within a school and schools that I'm familiar with do an excellent job of sharing the recognition between the academic competitive programs and the athletic programs and I've watched some wonderful activities pet Fest recognition programs their in-house television programs where you don't see a difference between the acknowledgements being given to the athletic teams and those of the accomplishments of various competitive academic programs. So there's a lot Goes on in the school. And remember the students are in that school setting a good deal of the time and that's where if the school is doing a good job. Those students are feeling equally recognized so it what about the kids don't coach Boone you you teach at a junior high and your coaching at the high school level and I'm sure Dorothy's right about the fact that the school's acknowledge everybody kind of equally and so on so forth, but the kids still kind of put the athletes on a special pedestal or do they say well gee this kid got an A. So I'm going to kind of model myself after him and the heck with it. Well, I don't know if they're put on a pedestal. I think we tend to separate Talent, you know, Talent academically should be acknowledged and talent athletically should be acknowledged as well. I think there's a fear of becoming just one-sided and looking at just what can I do athletics? To make myself better, you know, I want to see young people broaden their Horizons and not just go into one sport or two sports become a good violinist who are become a good pianist as well become a good debater, but do something other than just Athletics it is a talent but there's other things out there that we can be talented in as well. I don't think young people are put on a pedestal I think maybe people appreciate the talent that they possess as well as some of our athletes appreciate the academic talents of their peers. So I think it Talent is Talent right one last comment before we move on Gary just I'd feel remiss if I didn't say this the high school league has made a real concerted effort to try and promote all areas of excellence in the schools for years ago. They began a program called the AAA award academics Athletics and arts seeking to protect identify those people who have achieved a level of excellence in all areas. Important to the school and we set out to have 16 Geographic areas of the state identify who that person is, but each School identifies a boy and a girl who are the AAA person for their school. So we recognize that we feel that we may be a conduit to get more recognition for for academics and and bring that positive reinforcement back to kids into the community in the State High School league coaches association. We recognize All State Academic Teams. We recognize All State athletic academic combination. So we are promoting and encouraging young people to be well-rounded academic as well as that athletic watch callers on the line with questions and comments higher on Minnesota Public Radio. (00:37:13) Hello. Yeah, I would like to challenge something that was said about the relationship between High School Varsity Sports. Other programs such as a you and community-based programs. I have raised four children through two different suburban school systems all of whom had some involvement in athletics and it has been my experience in and virtually all the parents that I know agree that in many of the sports involvement in AAU or community-based programs that are very expensive are required preparation for playing on Varsity Sports. I in particular Sports such as hockey swimming and Diving women's gymnastics wrestling. (00:38:03) That is it stay. Excuse me, is it stated do the do the coaches make it clear that you they have the kids have had to have participated in these programs or is this sort of unstated deal? (00:38:13) It's what I'm saying is if you go out and look at the varsity teams, you will find It's but very few exceptions people on varsity teams who have not had some kind of paid for program through their Community. You might call it folk knowledge parents know that if their kids are going to have a reasonable chance of playing on varsity teams and being important to that team that they have to have preparation. I think there's a difference that that needs to be acknowledged between what is policy and what is practice. I know that my kids have were always told my two older children had opportunities because I had a financial situation and for them to be in those programs and they participated in Varsity Sports. I became a single parent than my two younger children. I couldn't afford to have in those things and they've had a very different experience in athletics and they have been told by coaches enroll in a summer program do this be part of that and it's not that Are excluded from the team, but they (00:39:24) never want to get off the bench. They pretty much have to do that is what you're saying. (00:39:28) Yeah, parents know that and and what I'm saying is I'm just I'm challenging on that basis and there's one other little piece to this. I want to make a comment about I know that from the time I was in school when most coaches were part of regular faculty things have changed so that many coaches are not actually a part of the faculty. They arrive after school for practice and have a very different relationship and I think that my experience has been that a lot of the coaches are focused only on the sport and only on doing well and winning because their job depends on it. There. There is this idealism about a balance between academics and sports that doesn't play out in a lot of situations because often the coaches who are coaching these Sports. It's a second job, and they're also coaching AAU Sports and Working in the community based program. (00:40:22) Okay, Coach Boone. What's your what's your experience in terms of how the coaches are relating to the to the kids these days. Well, it's hard to legislate ethics and morality and all of that. I think becoming a coach you have to assume certain responsibilities. It comes with the territory. Number one. You have to have the kids best interest in mind that's got to be first and you find a I know I started coaching at the young very young fifth grade level and and I wanted to be the role model that a lot of coaches were for me and that was unpaid and it was just because of a love of the sport and because a lot of kids and as you move up in the the ages of the young people, it doesn't diminish the requirements and responsibilities and the needs of those young people. What is that? About as a practical matter now recognizing it's not school policy or anything but recognizing is a practical matter. If if you want your child to have a good chance to play say basketball high school basketball at a good school that they're going to have to get to some summer camps. And is that true? I've seen an increase in the summer camps the the opportunities that are there. But again, it's the individual coach. I encourage my young athletes to become well-rounded. You can't tell them to go to a camp or to do this or to do that. But those opportunities that they are in they get out and they play and again you see some that just play one sport. I think they should try to look at other things as well. I encourage them you look at the family some people build their there's some our schedules around there. They are young athletes and and how they can work in the camps. So I understand what the caller is saying some people do strongly recommend that they're all you hear about it a lot, you know, and I mean, it's it's it's their right take another caller. Hi you're on me. To public radio. (00:42:40) Thank you. I have a question I guess is mostly for Dorothy and skip my daughter who's six years old started might hockey this year and I noticed that there were probably ten or fifteen other mites in our association and I'm wondering if they could give me an unofficial opinion on whether they think there's a possibility of them playing girls hockey by the time they're in high (00:43:03) school Dorothy. I want to take her out. Whack at that one. You bet ya been real active in the development of girls Athletics in the state. I think the timing is wonderful in the age of his daughter is perfect because we've been involved with gender Equity since the 1980s when actually the high school league began girls Athletics and 1970's so that we had a full complement of programs by 1978 and then as as we've gone along now schools have been required to continually assess their programs and find out what their students are interested in participating in this year. There's a Statewide Effort underway by schools to conduct student interest surveys and then to conduct a review of their athletic program in terms of gender Equity all this leads to my point that one of the things that's surfacing in the interest surveys is the girls interest in a nice Sport and whether it's ice ring at or ice hockey will be determined by the girls and by the schools and their communities but I dare say that there will be one or more I Sports in the future of high school girls Sports how many how many sports are there available for girls know? Well the high school league sponsors 12 to the State Tournament level. However, there are many other activities that girls and boys are interested in and one of the outcomes of the student interest surveys. This year will be the data that the league is going to gather from the surveys is going to show perhaps some new activities that students are interested in that we haven't sponsored before or that schools haven't conducted at the interscholastic level. So So and appropriate time for schools to take a look at their programs and see just what new activities are might be other callers on the line with a comment or question. Hello. (00:44:49) Hi, I live in st. Louis Park and I have kids in elementary school and they have a lot of extra activities in the evenings and afternoons that are very inexpensive and any kid can do it. You don't have to be particularly talented if your kids what I'm concerned by listening to you talk about high school. Is that only those kids who are really in the top 10 or 5 percent will actually get to play these Sports in high school. Is that true or am I just a misunderstanding what I'm hearing today? (00:45:22) Sounds like Varsity, it's still true. Is it not but you're talking to about trying to expand those intramural programs or at least keep them from shrinking? Right? Well, I think the pre-participation percentage is much higher than 5 or 10% is certainly the as Was design their programs. They look at their ability to pay and sponsor programs, but I think generally most schools are offering at least two levels in every activity of B Squad in a varsity many schools offer a b Squad junior varsity and varsity in grades, 10 11 and 12. So I would disagree that the percentage is five to ten percent of the kids who are interested in playing at that level actually wind up playing I would say that the percentage is much higher I think schools make an effort to really try and provide opportunities for all kids. I think they're very few schools and very few programs that really feel the need to cut athletes. Unfortunately. I think what we see is in the caller before had a good point kids begin to drop out when they see that success isn't going to come to them or that they're not going to be the starter and I think that builds into two philosophies one. What's what's the philosophy that drives your high school programs at winning and if Winning it leads you to the only way you're going to be on that team is to be in the AAU as and be in the hockey association's in place some herbal on go to camps and Clinics and have a high profile in that or in a particular sport. So we see athletes leaving other programs to specialize in one and I think that leads to what this caller is talking about is at the varsity level flight if it's perceived that I'm not going to have the opportunity to start to be a regular player. I'm going to leave the program. So it may be gives a perception that the kids who are truly interested in a program. Don't get the opportunity but I don't think that comes from basically the players or their perception of how they might fit in rather than the school who is looking to say if we have kids. We'll run a junior varsity program to allow everyone to remain in the program, but how much pressure are High School coaches under the win games is there much pressure or could you just you could you arbitrarily announced? Well, gee, I don't really care. How many games we Here we just like to have a good time and come on out Blast Away fellas. I guess you'd have to Define pressure. First of all, what is pressure you want to win? You want to play? Well, you want the young people to develop their skills is a lot of things associated with winning and I don't think it's win at all costs mentality, but they do have a lot more fun winning than Rosie. So it's a it's a tough balance what is pressure but the administrators aren't looking over your shoulder and saying well gee you only won five games last year coach. No, that's not a part of it at all. I don't think that's the State High School leagues and tensions as far as putting these programs together is to see how much you can win we've got I'd like to make one comment on the whole traveling concept that seems to be missing two is that they are involved in competitive sports, but in a lot of cases they cross community lines in the young people get to meet Other people from backgrounds that might be a little different than theirs and I think that's a definite positive and it's a shame that more young people cannot get that experience, you know, it's becoming expensive as get mentioned the hockey programs are very expensive basketballs, very expensive as well. I think if more young people could be afforded that opportunity to participate in meet young people from a more background. That's a little different than theirs. Maybe we wouldn't have some of the problems we have as adults. I think we've got time for one more caller very briefly. Hello. (00:49:25) Hi. I was wondering what percentage of the high school league money goes to sports versus academics. And will they be funding Odyssey of the Mind anytime soon? Thanks (00:49:37) Dorothy. Skip percentages are real difficult to determine because we sponsor All activities at a level that provides State tournaments lodging meals transportation and and tournament expenses so that all tournaments are covered in terms of the expense of the tournaments paid by the high school league and then annually about $680,000 is returned back to schools for participants. So we look at it each participant in the tournament and treat all of them equally whether they're in athletics or Fine Arts. The difference comes in staging the tournament and it just an example for debate debate is a two-day tournament with 48 teams involved in debate. That's two person teams and is conducted in a school much different expenses than we do obviously for a basketball tournament with 16 teams of 15 players to managers and two coaches stage in a big arena. And so we look at it and say what what is it that we need to provide to make this an outstanding experience for kids and then we cover those expenses whatever they might be so that there's no expense to the kids. We don't view any of our programs as being different. I couldn't tell you the difference between the speech cost or the basketball cost. Thanks so much for coming in today. We run out of time our flew by as always. Thanks so much Our Guest today talk about this Sports in the schools Washburn High School. Coach Lewis. Bun Dorothy McIntyre and Skip Peltier both of these State High School league.