(00:00:00) We're very pleased to welcome Patricia Aberdeen her books include such well-known bestsellers as megatrends megatrends 2000 and megatrends for women in addition to her writing which she does in collaboration with her husband. John Nesbitt. Patricia has spoken all over the world on the impact of Social and economic change on business and Society. Patricia is a graduate of Newton College of the Sacred Heart and holds a master's degree in information science from Catholic University of America. She is a board member of the Washington DC organization called search for common ground and she serves on the board of Colorado's Telluride Institute today, Patricia will give us her observations on some of the emerging Trends in work family the home and Society with great pleasure. I present Patricia Aberdeen. The central theme in megatrends for women is that women have attained critical mass. That is to say sufficient power and momentum. So that future progress for women will henceforth be unstoppable. By early in the 21st century. I believe it will become abundantly clear that the critical turning point was around 1992-1993. From good old boy politics to the Macho Sports World to the sexist institutions of organized religion women are challenging and overturning the status quo and recasting the social political and economic megatrends of the (00:01:45) day. (00:01:54) Mega trends for women sites example after example of CEOs activists and politicians in order to bring together in an interdisciplinary manner all of the breakthroughs that women are creating in many many different fields. And we do that we did that to make the case that the time for women to embrace their power and set their creativity free has at long last arrived. We were all inspired by the gains and politics last year six women Senators almost 50 women in the House of Representatives. But this new wave of women's power is not limited to politics millions of women will assume leadership. This decade as legislators as athletes entrepreneurs Bishops Governor's Community organizers Physicians designers Executives attorneys environmentalists, rabbis and social activists. Hillary Clinton is only the beginning. Make way as a whole new generation of women the first generation of women with life-long full-time careers begin to take over as leaders in America. The big picture the larger context is that that first generation of women many of whom are baby boomers, but many others of whom are there big sisters that first generation of women with lifelong full-time careers are moving into their power years in the 90s the women who came of age in the 1970s and who polished their career skills in the 1980s are about to shake up the world in the 1990s. Whether your field is business or politics whether you're a woman or a man, you cannot succeed in the 1990s without substantial in-depth knowledge about the changing profile of women, their Lifestyles their values and their work Styles. The media has made a rather big deal about the generational power shift from George Bush to Bill Clinton. (00:04:41) But (00:04:42) they are missing the larger more revolutionary megatrend. And that is the move of American women Baby Boomers into power. Let's look at politics 1992 was much more than the year of the woman. It was the year that launched a political power drive that will not stop until between one-third and one-half of all the governor's senators and congresspeople in the United States are women. The first woman president will be elected by 2008 on my wildly optimistic days I go with 2004. I actually think that's rather conservative and I love it when people say we're going to have to wait till 2004 but I think that that first woman president may never have served in Washington DC. I think that she will reach the Oval Office after two successful terms as a governor. Of a major state where I think her rise to power will be marked by the way that she has won over the US electorate with bold moves in citizen diplomacy by engaging in many humanitarian missions and most importantly by attracting many jobs to her State both from us companies, but also from foreign companies moving to her State and creating jobs for Americans. I make this prediction chiefly because of three reasons one new routes to political power to Texas and California and 3 the new world order for 20 years. Now women have paid their dues and politics from the school board to the State House. In a system that even today tends to Bar newcomers that is women from political power women have had to find alternative routes to power moving up through the ranks at the state level appallingly last year. There were only three women Governors and two women Senators, but those depressing statistics obscured the fact that so many women held the key executive positions Statewide executive positions that serve as the launch pad to the governorship. In 11 states women serve as lieutenant governor and I am deeply honored to have one of those Lieutenant Governor's with us today as eyesight that information. Will you say hello again? Thank you, Janelle. In 16 States 16 States women hold the office of State Treasurer. That was the state. That was the office that Governor Ann Richards held before she became governor of Texas in 11 States, including Minnesota. I believe women serve as Secretary of State and that is the job that Governor Roberts of Oregon held before she became Governor. So women are in the pipeline much more so than we realized at the state level and they are geared for those jobs as Governor. That's one of the main reasons why I think the first woman president will have been a governor rather than a senator for example. furthermore women have been particularly successful in the big Mega states of California and Texas the most populous most economically powerful States in 1991, the four largest cities in Texas all had women mayor's in 1992 the state of California elected to women Senators the first state to do so in the history of the United States, it's also true that four of the eight largest cities in California are run by women, Texas and California are the home states of many recent presidents including Reagan Bush Nixon and Johnson. The New World Order changes everything for women the New World Order opens the doors. for women to attain political power in the United States as soon as the US and the Soviet Union made peace, the whole focus our whole political Focus shifted from the international Arena to the domestic Arena. I tell some of my ultra-leftist feminist friends that they should get down on their knees and thank God for Ronald Reagan every day of their lives. They regard me with ill disguised contempt as I make that argument, but the British have an expression. I think it's particularly pertinent here. Only a Tory can make peace Reagan was so conservative. He had the conservatives who would potentially create all the opposition to making a deal with the Soviets. He had their support all sewn up and he was able to go ahead and make a deal that changes everything for women if we still had nuclear weapons staring Us in the face, it would be very hard to get mainstream voters fired up about health care about the environment about education about the inner city about all of the issues that really at long last have our attention today. As long as we have to be prepared to fight with the Soviets, I think we would have continued to choose leaders who were headstrong backgrounds and Military Affairs who knew a lot about nuclear weapons and arms negotiation all of that sort of stuff. Most of our women political leaders are not attracted to those rather negative areas instead. They have developed expertise and what we're now calling the domestic agenda and that domestic agenda is where we want political leadership to come from today. Look at Scandinavia part of the world that is particularly pertinent to this part of the country. Once you give up military adventurism women start taking over politically in Norway today women head up all three political parties and whoever is the head of the political party becomes prime minister. That means that for the foreseeable future the next prime minister of Norway will be a mother. How's that for a transition from politics to the family? Parents not politicians have earned the right to talk about family values parents not politicians have reorganized their work lives to spend more time with their kids through part-time work through telecommunications Computing through home-based businesses and through full-time motherhood. I see growing evidence of parents recommitting themselves to the family. Listen to these two statistics of people earning more than $30,000 a year 70 percent of them would trade a day's pay for a day of free time to spend with their families among men among men 74% would accept slower career advancement in return for greater flexibility in their careers. Now that sounds like the mommy track the problem with the mommy track is it should have been called The Mommy and Daddy track because everybody who has family responsibilities and small children want to get on (00:13:54) it. (00:13:57) 1992 was called the year of the woman in politics, but it was a benchmark for women in business to women are starting new businesses at twice the rate of men and of all the facts and figures that I've cited for audiences like this or on television or the radio. This is the one that gets the greatest response. Thus the following statistic as of 1992 women-owned businesses in the United States employed more people than all of the companies of the Fortune 500 put (00:14:36) together. (00:14:48) The Fortune 500 is in trouble today last month IBM Corporation announced that it had lost five billion dollars the largest loss in American history. It only lasted for about a week when Ford Motor Company came forward and said that it had lost seven billion dollars the largest loss in American history, but the losses of both Ford and IBM were eclipsed when General Motors made a tragic and terrifying announcement General Motors had lost twenty three billion dollars last year. Big it seems is not beautiful in American business today. I wonder whether the shareholders of these companies might say to themselves. What do these companies have in common? And I wonder if they might not say a male-dominated leadership. (00:15:57) indeed (00:16:01) I hope that the shareholders of America will rise up and demand that we promote more women through the glass ceiling before we all drowned in a sea of red ink. Am I arguing that these companies sustained such Monumental losses just because their leadership was male, of course (00:16:28) not. (00:16:31) But I don't think it helped. Men at the top of the Fortune 500 companies or many of them at least have isolated themselves in an all-male World whereas their markets consistently are being made up of women of minorities and of younger men. A lot of the men at the top a lot of the men in the boardrooms are desperately in need of a transfusion and yet they sit around and complain all we don't want to have quotas. Well, I think it might do them a lot more good than they think it's a generational issue as well. Many men over 55 years old today came to power in that industrial period And I think that they cling to the structures of the industrial period to the hierarchies and the bureaucracies that just don't make it in a fast-paced information World neither does the military approach to management, but that's how they learned the business world. And for many older gentleman, it's hard to change the key factor. However in women's success in business today, whether as entrepreneurs or in Corporate America is the natural that the natural leadership style that women Embrace is what is particularly needed in American business today. In the industrial period when people were poorly educated when people worked on an assembly line the old military approach to management worked very well very well, but today's employee is highly skilled is well-educated. Today's employee is expected to think for themselves to manage themselves. Leadership can no longer be defined as issuing commands the old military approach instead. You have to inspire people. You have to support people you have to motivate people and that is what many women managers do best UCLA Professor Judith Rosner writing in the Harvard Business Review studied male and female Executives and found that women encourage participation that women are willing to share information and Power in the workplace that women are dedicated to enhancing people's self-worth that women want to get people excited about their work. No wonder no wonder that the so-called women's style of leadership is the one that male management gurus such as Peter Drucker. Her and Tom Peters Advocate that everybody in business today should a (00:19:50) spouse (00:19:53) women are also shaking up the fashion and retail establishment for decades male designers dressed wealthy socialites and ladies. Who (00:20:05) lunch (00:20:14) The rest of us followed but today's 40-something manager or 50-something manager. Today's 30-ish environmentalist is educated sophisticated affluent yet cost-conscious and she is having none of this old-fashioned approach today 53 million women need something to wear to work tomorrow. And they are turning to women designers to a very large extent to fill their needs. Donna. Karen says if it's not in my closet, I design it and Liz Claiborne sells almost four times more clothing than the top three male designers put together in 1991 and into 1992 the fashion retailing business wanted to blame all of its problems on recession nonsense retailers from downtown to the mega malls ignored misunderstood and failed to cater to their female customers their female Market. How else do you explain the fact that during that same time period catalog sales were going through the roof companies like the gap which had very well defined its Market was doing extremely well and close to some For large size women were breaking all sales records. It certainly was not just recession headline in the Rocky Mountain news last summer predicted that 42% of the malls in Denver. Colorado would fail the story cited a male retail analyst and I'd like to quote him for you. This is not Patricia Aberdeen speaking. This is a chicago-based male analyst this industry is run by a bunch of male chauvinists. Who have not kept up with the changes in women's life lives Executives in healthcare. My next topic are just about to make the same mistake the next two decades 40 to fill a 50 million women will go through menopause. As one lady in her 50s said at one of my speeches a couple of weeks ago talk about your global warming. If any of you are on the boards of directors of a healthcare organization a hospital or ever really any Health Care Organization and your CEO is not geared up for the changes that this extraordinary megatrend will bring I would suggest that you tell the board of directors to fire him now save yourself a lot of money and a lot more aggravation catering to the needs of premenopausal postmenopausal and menopausal women will be one of the most important growth areas in the whole healthcare industry in the next two decades. While most of us were concerned with other issues a dedicated group of Women's Health Care activists were exposing the level of sexism in healthcare each year heart disease kills twice as many women as all forms of cancer. Together and yet the research and heart disease has consistently focused on men including that massive study that predicted that that concluded you should take an aspirin a day in order to prevent a heart attack. Not one woman was involved in that study megatrends for women tells the story of a woman in Boulder, Colorado woman in her 50s whose family physician over the course of several years consistently diagnosed her serious heart condition as indigestion. And that family prayer position prescribed a popular remedy for stomach trouble. So whenever I hear that commercial that says my doctor says Mylanta. I want to say please see a cardiologist. Women have learned a lot from AIDS activists. And today women want to know why NIH is 1991 budget research budget for AIDS which kills 24,000 people a year was 800 million while it's 1991 budget for breast cancer, which kills almost twice as many people about 46,000 people a year was less than 100 million breast cancer activists are not implying that the money should be taken away from AIDS and devoted to breast cancer. They are simply asking where did this money come from? How do we find it? And how do we get it allocated to our cause It's beginning to happen last fall Congress increased. The funding for breast cancer research to 400 million dollars a year not enough but a very substantial beginning today's baby. Boom. Women will change the whole way. We look at menopause whether they proudly wear wrinkles and long beautiful gray hair or going for facelifts and tummy tucks Baby Boom women will honor the aging process by invoking and revitalizing the great archetype of the wise woman the wise woman who is valued for her experience and her judgment the wise woman who simply has the knowledge and the experience that younger people lack furthermore the baby boom women will be the first generation of women to enjoy their Prime career years in the throes of the highly energized condition. known as postmenopausal zest Sports has long been considered a male-dominated Arena men are certainly the Undisputed champions of spectator sports. But it looks like women are becoming very serious athletes women are the majority of the participants in six of the seven top Sports and Fitness activities, including swimming and cycling women are the majority of cross-country skiers and the majority of hikers women are the minority of skiers and of Runners, but it is one huge minority about 40% of skiers and 40% of hikers are women skiers and not hikers runners. Half of all new golfers about 1 million new women golfers a year to sports researchers at UCLA predicted that women Runners would compete with and possibly beat male runners in the 26-mile marathon event by 1998. I always thought it was complete nonsense when the early management books for women said that women should study football. It is such a battlefield industrial sport if women should be studying a male-dominated spectator sport. It certainly should be basketball rather than football basketball is a dynamic metaphor of the fast-paced stuff coming at you from every direction information workplace. What is the story behind the story of women in sports? I believe that women are subconsciously attracted to Sports and Fitness activity in order to prepare themselves for leadership Sports builds so much more than competition and teamwork. It's much more important than that women are turning to sports today to create situations in order to develop discipline risk taking Confidence endurance courage and persistence all traits that leaders need again. And again whenever I speak someone in negatively says things can't possibly be as positive as you make them sound and I admit it. I have the temperament of a person who tends to see the glass as half full and getting Fuller but don't take my word for it. There are many many reasons why women and their mail supporters should be optimistic today. We need a new vision and a new social order in America today. A system of male domination is falling apart at the seams and then arguing with each other about it. It's all the fault of you Republicans. No, no. No, it's all the fault of you Democrats. Of course. There are some good guys in power. But they are the first to tell you that they don't have all the answers they want and they need your knowledge and your experience Americans have been yearning for years to get beyond the tired old labels of left versus right of conservative versus liberal in order to create practical new policies that succeed in being both socially liberal and financially viable social programs that really Empower people to become independent of government resources. I believe that the women who have honed their skills and their experiences in a man's world along with creative like-minded men are going to have to be the people who come up with that new social agenda. New opportunities are coming for women in leadership in politics in business in social activism, but it is not going to be automatic individual women are going to have to decide that they are willing to go for it that they are willing to take the risk. My whole purpose in writing megatrends for women is to persuade women. Hopefully thousands of women to do just that you're not going to change the world. If you sit around thinking I'm never going to have any power. I'm never going to become a leader you have to be optimistic enough to anticipate opportunity. It's not going to happen overnight may not happen in 1993 or 1994. But you have to plan today to create The Five-Year Plan or the seven-year plan that will prepare you for the leadership opportunity that's coming your way in 1997 or in 2002 (00:32:45) for (00:32:45) some women. That means mastering skills in finance in fundraising in marketing for other women. It means it's time now to start studying the issues to start speaking out to run for political office. In another case it might mean that it's time to leave your company after 15 years and start your new business or perhaps it means it's time for you to go back and get that advanced degree that's been holding you back. For the past 20 years women have quietly built up their social and economic power their experience and their expertise the challenge now is to access and to liberate those built up resources on all levels a metaphor for the next phase of the women's movement might be the symbolic shift from Liberation to leadership. From consciousness-raising to fundraising the shift from look how horrible this is 2 and here is exactly what we propose to do about it. Will you give us your support? Because women's Liberation is not the end not by any means it is the beginning of a lot of work. There is a whole world out there that needs to be transformed so that women and men can create and desire and build and play if women are willing to answer the call of leadership. Then we are already well underway. Thank you very much. Thank you. You can tell your remarks were very well received by this audience. You are listening to Patricia Aberdeen best-selling author of Megatron's for women and megatrends. Mm. Her speech is sponsored by the College of Saint Catherine and is part of its ongoing st. Catharines Forum on women in leadership speaker series, Patricia. Aberdeen will now take questions from the audience. First of all, thank you Patricia for your Dynamic presentation, and I'd like to ask a question in the area of the family. Do you see any Trend to set to ever set a monetary value on the role of the primary caregiver in a family? I think that that's a question that is increasingly being asked among families and among couples. I do not personally expect to see the government get involved in any kind of a situation whereby a homemaker would buy be financially rewarded for her efforts. I expect to see that sorted out among families on a very individual basis when women entered the workforce in large numbers in the 70s. There was one sort of career path available if you want to work you work full-time and that is so increasingly out of touch today with the needs of families. It might make sense for the primary caretaker in the family to work halftime. Of course when children are very young. Hopefully under ideal. Variations the primary caregiver can take a few years off work. I hope I've persuaded you with my argument about postmenopausal zest that women in their 50s can do five years of work in two years and make up for the time that they take off to care for their children. But wouldn't it be more sensible if when families have young kids that one party worked half time in one party work 2/3 times time. If corporations would respond to the desperate need for flexibility on the part of their employees. They could increase productivity cut labor costs dramatically and not have to resort to laying so many people off in a downsized environment many people would like a more alternative work schedule. Thank you very much Patricia. I think it would be interesting for the people gathered here to hear how you arrived at your Trends. How do you discover that? This is the direction we are going I think many of us feel these directions. But how do you acknowledge them as being the real direction that we are going? Thank you. The approach that we take is to really read just about everything we can get our hands on from newspapers to magazines to reports and studies and scan all of that information for new patterns, the philosophy of my co-author and I is that we are drowning in information and that we are starved for knowledge. So we do not conduct any new or original research. We look at the research that's available to anybody who's got a library card and really scan that for patterns because even though there's tons of information out there. It isn't really Put together in a way that makes sense for most of us. So that's what we've dedicated ourselves to (00:39:02) doing. (00:39:11) I have a question as an educator and as a mother. What advice could you give us to prepare our children particularly our girls to assume the roles of leadership and to acquire the skills that they'll need to match these Trends and to really make a difference. I think you could probably judge for my remarks that I'm very big on the role of Sports and Physical Fitness not the old-fashioned approach to sports necessarily not just team sports but also individual participatory Sports. I think that plays a big big role the issue of single-sex education has become increasingly reconsidered today as we see how the self-confidence of girls and young women can be enhanced in a female atmosphere. Those are just two areas that I think are important and that that I would consider but what it finally comes down to I think is really looking inward. That's why at the end of my remarks. I really in response to all the facts and figures and perhaps Balance all the facts and figures that I've sort of thrown out at you. The ultimate thing the ultimate wrote to leadership has to come from within and maybe there was that calculus course that you flunked when you were 18 or 19 years old that kept you paralyzed about mathematics. Each of us has our individual hurdles and individual barriers to leadership and that's why I think it's so important to look inside and ask yourself because you know, you know what that one skill or that one big barrier was that kept you from leadership and now is the time to I believe vow that you will take another shot at that that you will go back and overcome that barrier because the opportunities for you in the 1990s will be extraordinary. You've got to be prepared. Excuse me while you were speaking I couldn't help but remember the poster I have in my office that says a woman can do anything a man can but the question is why would she want to my question relates to information or data that I have seen about the personal lives of CEOs and people at the top Executives that are considered to be successful that indicate most of them are white males who are married and who have children and the inverse correlation is there for women which is very few of them have children and I'm I don't even think it's over half of them are married and you see that Trend changing and what will affect that. Yes. I do. See that Trend changing again. I think it is somewhat of a generational issue the large numbers of women in their 40s today. Most of them have had children and as they move up that corporate ladder in the Fortune 500 the CEO of the It's going to look like a very very different sort of person but in the meanwhile in the meanwhile the guys at the very top are the last generation of industrial America and I have to admit and I'm The Optimist. I do feel a certain strengthening of resistance among these guys whose wives were all full-time Homemakers and who in my opinion continue to persist in envisioning their female consumers as Homemakers because of their wives the guys who are 45 in younger their wives all work. They know the score they know exactly what's going on. So I do think that there's a little bit of resistance there but change, you know, it would be wonderful if we could have went in 1970 when we all looked up and said half of the CEOs Half of the Senators ought to be women. Well, that would be wonderful if that could have happened and the fastest way to the CEOs chair is to start your own business. Of course needless to say as those millions and millions of women did but meanwhile demographics slow change as unon oiling as slow change is it is the path to real certain transformation and every year another class of those older white male Executives graduate into retirement and the door is opened up for more and more people to fill their ranks in smart companies that will they will be women but in not so smart companies those women will be passed over for promotion. Those women will say the heck with this start their own business and PS take 30% of the clients with them when they say adios Big Brother. out of here Would you share with us your vision of the role of women in the church, especially the Roman Catholic Church. Oh, I'd be delighted to In fact, I was so confident that that would come up in the queue a section that that when time got a little short for me here. I edited that out of my remarks. That's that's how confident I was that we'd get to it. I think that one could argue that the most sexist institution in world history has been organized religion. But today one third of seminarians in theology schools all across the board all across the u.s. Are women that's up from virtually zero virtually zero about two decades ago at Harvard and Yale Divinity School women make up 50 and 60 percent of the class two-thirds of American Catholics today believe that women should be ordained to the priesthood. These aren't the think-tank folks. These are just walking around Catholics two-thirds of (00:45:55) them. (00:45:59) Two-thirds of them think that women should be priests. Of course. Yeah, the pope isn't too keen on the idea. But what the Catholic church is doing is ordaining women as quote unquote lay ministers. That's a real that's a really a good one. They can do everything that priests can do but they're lay ministers. I think that that is really the Breakthrough. I think the Breakthrough has already happened and that a parallel ministry will grow up. God knows the Pope needs priest something awful. The average age of a priests in the u.s. Today is 54 years old not a promising demographic and thousands and thousands of women are qualified to to become priests. And I think that's how it will happen. Women will become so-called lay ministers and in another give it 25 years. They distinctions between priests and lay ministers will be there blurred already, but I mean, they will officially continue to In addition, there are 300 women rabbis today thousands and thousands of women ministers and what all these women in religion have in common whether their Catholic Protestant Jewish doesn't matter. They all reject the notion of God as male. I love the way Sister Mary Daly puts it so long as God is male. The male is God. (00:47:45) I'd like to switch the question to economics if I could is being a meal. Good luck. You mentioned Norway and its dominance by women and its political sector and I'm wondering if you and John are seeing a correlation between the emergence of women and the diminishment of classical laissez-faire economics. Hmm (00:48:12) the emergence of women and the diminishing of classical laissez-faire economics. I certainly think there's a relationship there. I mean I consider myself very staunchly independent. I would hate to identify myself as either a democrat or a republican because I really believe in voting for the individual. I think that we are sorting through I think that women have historically tended to be more liberal because they are more people oriented and because we they are dealing with the issues of elder care and day care and health care every day of their lives. We may see be seeing a request a request tuning of laissez-faire economics, but I don't think we are in any way moving to the point where we want the federal government to get all involved in the marketplace. I think that we're sorting it out but that most of us want to save the best of a of the marketplace and the intelligence of the marketplace which is really what has made our country so strong and as we see in communist countries the failure of States getting overly involved in the political system. We certainly don't want to go in that direction but we are seeing certainly in the present a little more government involvement as we kind of sort out the tension between the two approaches to politics in the (00:49:49) US. (00:49:53) I agree with you that the 90s is a turning point for women coming into Power if we use Governors and presidents and Senators as a measurement or criteria for power, but I do think it would be a grave mistake if we ignored the power and the force of women throughout history. I think College of Saint Catherine's is a fine example of that power and force of women. My question has to do along the lines of what do you think we can do to give status to women who have kept the infrastructures of society going. How do we give status to women who have kept the infrastructures of society going? Do you mean in a non economic sense? I think that that as women become more powerful that our sense of self reliance and our sense of valuing the good things about us get stronger and stronger so that you won't have in the 90s the old approach to women in leadership of the women woman turning into someone who espouses the mail value system. We are in such a period of transformation and we are looking at ourselves and saying I want to keep my feminine side. I want to keep my caring nature and my valuing nature and that's why I believe in the the the re-emergence of the archetype of the wise woman. It isn't going to be a male-dominated society that Pat's us on the head and says, oh you old ladies are great now. Just like the women's movement had to Value itself before it could convince others of its value. So women need to Value their own positive female traits and and be proud of those and then hold out to Society at large that self valuing mechanism. I hope that's gives you a sense of how I feel about (00:51:59) that. (00:52:06) I'd like to switch back to the politics and say that individually I was very pleased to see Hillary Clinton appointed in leadership leadership position on the health care issue, but I suspect that the media and the Republicans will pick that apart pretty much and I was wondering what your estimate is of how our society will adjust or will accept what her commission comes out with will we be ready to listen to what she has to say as a leader or will we as a culture say wait a minute, you know, she's his wife kind of stuff. Hmm. I think it's a very very difficult question. Hillary Clinton has experience in generating bottom up support for health care in her position as first lady is in the in the state of Arkansas. So she comes at this with some experience. I think that the larger picture is that Hillary Clinton is the beginning of the end of the office of first lady. I think that we will not see that office existing in 10 years suppose. The next president is a male probably fairly good guess who's to say that his wife. She may be a concert pianist at at age 50 at the height of her powers. She might be hot on the trail to the answer to the to the to cancer working at NIH who's to say that at age 45 or 50 or 55 at the height of her journey and her contribution to society. She's going to abandon that in order to become an unpaid hostess with a social function. And do you think the first gentleman is going to do that? Forget it. So we really I think we'll see the office for what it is a glorified corporate wife. And I just think the American people are so fortunate that Hillary Clinton's goals in life do dovetail with her husband's so that she can serve as this transitional figure and my goodness contribute to American society, but she has a very difficult road ahead of her. I think that Rosalynn Carter gave her some very good advice. She said you're going to be criticized anyway, so you might as well do what you believe in and be criticized for doing what you believe in.