(00:00:00) Good evening, and welcome to best of midday this program originally aired on October 22nd offers another perspective on Saddam Hussein and the situation in the Persian Gulf the midday speaker is dr. Abbas medic. He was a native of Iraq and is currently an assistant professor of Sociology at st. Cloud State University before coming to the United States to study and teach he worked for seven years in the public sector in Iraq until he gave this speech at st. Cloud State office made. He had answered questions from the media only if his anonymity was maintained he spoke publicly a few weeks ago his speeches titled Saddam Hussein and the gulf crisis past present and future. (00:00:42) Saddam Hussein and the gulf crisis Is the Story of My Life? I live in it. I suffered from it. And certainly I have had to deal with it. I am from Iraq. I love Iraq and I'll do whatever it takes for your Acts. also I live in the United States of America. I choose America to be my homeland for the rest of my life. I admire America. I respect America, and I do love America. because I have such dual feeling I'm here tonight. To talk with you. About the other perspective of the gulf crisis. as any Rocky I would like to share with you some insight. different aspect from different perspectives of probably most of you have not heard about (00:02:13) it. (00:02:17) You haven't heard about it because most people started to hurt about Saddam Hussein. since he invaded Kuwait as any Rocky person we lived with Saddam we suffered from Saddam. We destroyed by Saddam and it is only fair to claim that we know Saddam. We understand Saddam more than other people or in a different way. Saddam Does not represent Iraqi people he never has and he never will. Saddam destroy Iraqi people and a lot of people in Iraq are not happy with Saddam. However, I have to make sure that I'm speaking here as a voice from Iraq. I'm in no position to represent Iraqi people. But as a sociologist, I would like to believe that a lot of Iraqi people agree what I'm going to say tonight. Saddam does not represent the Iraqi people. Iraq is a great country is a great culture. But Saddam has the most dangerous Security in the world. So many years so many years of depression. Maybe Rocky people in very difficult situation indeed in very very helpful and very very hopeless situation. In a brief Saddam is a dangerous (00:04:15) man, (00:04:17) Saddam a ruthless man Saddam a devious man in very strong sense. but if I come and say to you and describes a damn in this way, it is not enough. It is not enough and it is not fair. I think it is not fair for Iraqi people and for all the people around the world. Who is Saddam? How he become a president? Why he become president? The invasion of Kuwait required a historical look and we have we need to put things in perspective. This is an opportunity. We should not let us go. We must make sure the thinks like this never happen again. the events the events in the Gulf represent a major step in our civilization. And no matter how the problem is going to be resolved might be an herb. Not a lot of blood is going to be spelled. So it is only fair. To understand the basic historical political social and economic forces which shape Saddam Saddam is a product. I always feel proud that I'm sociologist because sociology taught me not only to understand the action rather than to go beyond the action and to understand the causes and the consequences of the action. and tonight I want to talk about who a Saddam. Which kind of forces shape Saddam and what the connection between the causes and the consequences which brought Saddam and make him such popular guy? In order to do that. I have to go before August second. Okay second when Saddam invaded Kuwait because we have we have to have a historical look to the situation. So what I'm going to do tonight. I'm going to talk briefly about the structure of the economic institution in the Arab world. Then I'll move briefly again about talk about the structure of the political institution in the Arab world. Then I'll talk why Saddam invaded Iran before he invaded Kuwait and he worked on war for eight years, then I'll talk about you as Rocky Relationships then what can we learn from this event for future and to make the future a peaceful and better future for (00:07:39) everybody? (00:07:42) Arab states, it's 21 states. And the populations is about 200. If we look to the Arab states, we find them divided into two groups one groups one group who have oil. the other who has Who that they don't have oil so I could call them oil producer countries and know knowing non-oil producing states? These two groups are very much different. The grooves or countries with oil are very small states continues with non aisle are large and big especially in their population. For example, Egypt is known oil producing Nation. Their population is 55 million Sudan non-oil producing Nation their population 23 million Surya non-oil producing producing Nation. Their population is 13 million, if we look to other side for oil producing Nations, we find Kuwait for example, it is only 700 700 thousand of we go for example and to look to a cutter The Other Nation it is only 400 Nation 400 people (00:09:14) 400,000 (00:09:18) Because there is a big difference and their population structure and because there is a big difference in their revenue group with oil enjoy the wealth enjoyed the prestige and the group without oil suffer and their life is a different. Over the time non-oil producing countries have beside they have small population. Their labor force is very small. It's very small for many reason number one most population in oil-producing nation either and skill or any prepare to work. Number two women in oil producing countries. They don't participate in waging employment. The other Factor the population in oil-producing countries is very youth. As a result of that these countries have to depend very much on non-oil producing countries and over the time this work very well for both of side both side labor coming from Egypt from Sudan from George Jordan and Kuwait Saudi Arabia Qatar paying for them and achieving their development process. It is only Iraq. It is only a rock in the region who enjoy both of them. Iraq large in size has an 18 million people. Iraq has a lot of oil and Iraq has a lot of resources. So if you look to all Arab state in the region you find the only nation in the region, of course besides Iran Iran is not Arabic country. Enjoy the wealth. Enjoy the agriculture. Enjoy the great Two Rivers. Enjoy the great history and great culture is Iraq and there is a story behind that people sometimes make a joke of it. Why in the region that is only Iraq and Iran stay such big and large and the Other Nation are small. It is interesting to find actually in the region the map made by the Western by France and Britain and because Iran close to Russia, the Western power wanted to keep a kind of shield from kamek kamek to the oil sources. So they allowed to Iran to be large the first shield then they allowed to Iraq to be the second Shields. The other states are different. That's a brief about the economic structure. I'm going to move to the political structure. And I trust if you have questions, then you are try to answer them. If we look to the twenty first nation 21st Nation all the leader all the leader in this nation. There is no single reader being elected. All of them all of them impose on their people and they deny the freedom and the Democracy for their people. There is no election in any country. They claim to but it's not true. Indeed because there is no election because they don't represent their own people. They are afraid they are worried about their power how they maintain their power. They maintain their power by force (00:13:21) Ali. (00:13:24) But they don't have enough Force even to maintain themselves. So they have to they have to depend on external forces to support them. If anything's happened to Kuwait to Saudi Arabia to Qatar, whatever they go to run to Britain to France to United States to other countries to support them. They don't have the bases. for the government structure over the time people are tired from this government. They are very tired because these people the leader the leader of this government do not represent their own people. besides that they don't rationalize their economic structure in this Nations. As I said, there is imbalance of wealth between these two groups. But in the same time, there is imbalance of worth within every single nation. People in the west believes think sometime wrongly that showed you people are rich all of them. They are not all of them. So they are run by 2000 Prince period the rest are poor the rest don't have freedom. The rest don't have democracy. What do we hear here in the west? We heard about pre spend them about the bridge act because they are closed with the west but the other we don't hear about them. The map in the Middle East made and remade overnight by the West night since 1916. British and French agreement they divided the region and they denied the independence for Arabic people and despite they promised them to do that after 1960. They divided that and so if you look to the map there were it was not Syria and Lebanon. This is created by France. It was not Iraq and Kuwait create my protein. It was not Saudi Arabia all of them created in a different times. So, let me make it clear. If you ask me. It's Kuwait is part of Iraq or No Yes. Kuwait is part of Iraq and a lot of Iraqi people believed but do I support the West Saddam invaded Kuwait? No, I don't support Saddam in the way. He invaded Kuwait. It is ugly. It is any human and should not happen. Well, what do we have here? We have political leaders who do not represent their own people. And who do band on the Foreigner look to the Egypt has the Mubarak who is has been work? How's the Mubarak the band on US military assistance if United States stopped supporting has the Mubarak for one month's he'd be gone. Who's King Fahad in Saudi Arabia? Whose King George could ksenia Jordan and that goes all the way even to Saddam Hussein and I'll come and to show you who's a dancing. after Iranian Revolution started and Ayatollah Khomeini moved from France. to Iran in the west especially American hated Ayatollah Khomeini, and you have very good reason to hate Ayatollah Khomeini. but people in the region Iranian and Shiite Muslim Believes Ayatollah Khomeini, is there like their God? And if you ask me about my opinion in the history as a sociologist, and I still study the movement over the history and the Revolutions of the society. If you ask my opinion, I believe in the history that are truly three revolutions. the French Revolution the Russian Revolution and the Iranian revolutions Maybe you don't like that. Maybe you heard different swag. I don't like either. But history is different if we like or no, well when Ayatollah Khomeini move to Iran. this leaders in the Arab state were very very very much why they are worried because the Shah of Iran was doing exactly what they are doing today. The shot did not represent his people. It was an elite people control the wealth of the nation. And the shot did not give a democracy and freedom. But Iran at that stage, it was in a different stage of development than Kuwait and see the Saudi Arabia. So the revolution started in Korea and Iran first, they were very worried because in Iraq and Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and all this there are Muslim people who strongly supported Ayatollah Khomeini at that (00:19:14) time. (00:19:17) The leaders The Kinks were busy moving from one place to other what can we do about the (00:19:25) situation? (00:19:28) They decided and they found out there is no way. To stay in power unless to get the red of Ayatollah (00:19:38) Khomeini. (00:19:41) The question, how do you get rid of Ayatollah Khomeini if Ayatollah Khomeini make one statement in Iran you find 10,000 in the street supporting him that's mean War. Who's going to fight with with Iran Kuwait in Kuwait? Cannot do the job. It's small Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia. Cannot do the job Egypt Egypt far away is the only nation in the region could do the job as Eric. Then the question reduced itself. How can we persuade Iraq to do the job? I'm not time the president of Iraq Saddam the president of Iraq Ahmed Hassan al-bakr. And the vice president was Saddam. Ahmed Hassan al-bakr a man in his 60s. He is a general in the army. We didn't appreciate him much at that time. But after we saw Saddam. We really appreciate him now very much. We wished if he stayed actually. Ahmed Hassan al-bakr is not the kind of man could lead his country for unreasonable irrational world. So The Kinks the prime minister's the emir's? with the support of the West worked very hard to move Saddam from vice president to be president of Iraq sound strange to you why the choice came to Saddam at that time? Because Saddam Vita says he is killer. He is Ambitions. He is dangerous and he is ruthless and that exactly this description they wanted because who's who create who's going to fight with Ayatollah Khomeini? I don't know how many crazy they wanted another crazy man to fight with him. So this man a crazy so they brought him. And we find in 1979 Saddam Hussein become a president of Iraq. He came in the first day in his speech and the first day he excuted 53 in the first day excuted 553 Minister prime minister and Generals because they opposed for him to be president of Iraq Iraqi people knows him and they didn't want him to be president. He is socially unacceptable in Iraq to be president and he is morally unacceptable to be president in Iraq. Unfortunately, the history of Middle East is a history of blood and the history of Middle East is a fight on the nation and their families. spin choose when Saddam Hussein become president of Iraq, it took him two years about two years to prepare himself to fight with Iran. He's smart. We don't like him we hated him but he's a smart he want to Kuwait and Saudi Arabia and he said look I go on war but I have conditions. You have to agree upon number one. You support me financially as much as I need and as long as the war is going to go on. They said to him. Yes, sir. He said you support me politically as long as the war. They said. Yes, sir. Saudi Arabia Kuwait. They want to lend them. They came to Washington. They came we want to support this man. (00:23:51) Sure (00:23:53) Saddam committed unbelievable crime in Iraq and 79 in 18 and 81. Nobody heard about it in one day. If you look to the history of Iraq, you find the business people in Iraq have power they have even political power. So damning new at that time cannot continue or start or and these people there what he did. He invited these people to the Chamber of Commerce said we would like to talk with you. We have imported issue about trade. You must come you must come people believed him. They wanted a chamber of commerce. They said they the security said, well the room is not big enough. We should move to another room. They took them that truck and took them to the border between Iraq and Iran and they throw them. Why they said to them you are Iranian. You are naughty Rocky. They are Iraqi people. It doesn't matter. They took all old people the youth it was worried. Maybe they go to fight with him 600 young individual. He killed them in one day. When they took these people another trucks went to their families took them. I was in Iraq at that time and my friend call me in the last minute. He said my daughter and school. Please help me break her bring her with us. I want their I brought him his daughter and I found his wife is gone. They stayed seven days after until they receive their daughter there and there are hundreds and hundreds of story like that. So damned before abusing Kuwait now and abusing the international law. He abused his Iraq you people we were crying. For the last 15 years we ask for help nobody listen to us. Nobody wanted to help us. Why Iraqi people ask just you find out about Saddam. This is the spoiled leader of the West for the last 15 years. What's happening now? Well, so damn started a war with Iran. And fortunately he made a mistake and he thought he'll finish the war within two or three weeks. And instead the war State eight years. about 1 million person killed the economic collapse so he finish the war with nothing. Iraq is a rich Nation. Now the country in depth about 80 billion. He has no money even to buy his lawyer has a friend Kuwait Saudi Arabia said, well, we gave you 50 billion that's enough and the world's top. We can't sir. So damn fight himself in very difficult situation financially. And politically socially people in Iraq asking question. Why we started a war? See there are historical relation between Iraq and Iran. These two countries are Muslim countries. If we hated Ayatollah Khomeini, there's no reason to hate Iranian people. Why we weren't on fight with these people the mother and the father who lost their children, they ask why there are families. They have three four kids. They lost them all of them. And now as a sociologist, I see the social problem came after the war. You go to Iraq. You find only old people children and women there is no Iraq evil because above two million people skipped. They left Iraq like me and other people we are lucky. We left Iraq 11 years. I haven't been able to go but still I'm lucky. the other either killed by Saddam himself all he sent them to the wall. Saddam approach people from Egypt from Sudan from different countries for the service sector. So the 1 million Army you heard about now does include people in their 60s that's include people in their 50s include people and if these people have choices believe me they stay in their home. And the history of the war with Iran they didn't want to fight Iraq has hundred thousand prisoner in Iran because when you're on your attack them every family in Iraq, every family has their children look when the fight start just so don't fight. Saddam sent his own people the Republican guard and they say if you withdraw to the Iraqis, we shoot you so you have a war when Iraqi soldier shooting Iraqi soldier. Well, the world is finished. And Saddam needs money. And many people here in the west and I see the newspaper and the media thinks Saddam invaded Kuwait because he needed the money. I don't think that's the only reason it is true is a reason but there is an important reason I haven't heard about the media to talk about it here. So damned if he wanted only money from Kuwait and so he will get it easy. He sent concussion just before he invaded Kuwait three months ago, and he said to him. I want 30 billion and I want them to write off my tab. They did this so said to him. We don't pay you. But they say we start will think about it and we find a way to support you financially. But there is another problem Saddam faced in Iraq. You see the history. The history of US policy in the region is not good. and over the time because American foreign policy worked on basic assumption that democracy freedom in the Arab world is not workable. Over the time that create a strong reaction. So in the 50s, for example, the reaction people strongly committed themselves to the communist movement. And the 60s Nasser movement? In the 70s, we will respond that to Bath movement with a bath now in Iraq and Syria to Wings, but they are different. But in the 80s and now they are responding to the Islamic movement. This is an important issue. I think we should understand because in the Middle East. the culture forces always prevail on political forces no matter how strong the political forces in the end. The cultural forces is going to prevail. How much the leader and the Arab states would support of the West wanted to the political forces to be prepared rather than religious forces. And it worked for sometimes for the last 30 years, but since the 80s now the Islamic movement started and increasingly getting strong. Saddam face a serious dangerous inside Iraq from a party they call it Al dawa party. And Saddam knows very well. Not only himself facing this threat Islamic movement the other king and the prince in other place facing the same. He's smart too. He wanted to play it, right, you know, if you want to understand Saddam Saddam would do everything whatever it takes him to maintain his power. I took some to invade Iran. To maintain his power. He did that took him to use chemical weapon. He did that if it takes him to kill somebody he'll do that. If it took some bail money can do that. So damn find himself in very critical situation with the strengthening of Islamic movement in Iraq. So he wanted to kill more than two birds in one stone. He invaded Kuwait. Financially, he'll be okay. to Belize that she had people in Kuwait and that's why when he invaded Kuwait Saddam Security in Kuwait calling people if you like to leave Kuwait, but which kind of people not all the people only the simnet people it's not the she at Beaver and if you see the first government when he claimed there is a government in Kuwait all of them from the shh in this way at he gave up to Iran and this way he secure his position. He thought his cure his mission in Iraq. And he changed the structure of political map and other Gulf States. It's been working to certain extent and the West has to be very careful how to respond to this and I've come to this point. How do we respond to as lamech movement in the end of my speech? (00:34:23) Well, (00:34:24) I describe Saddam in the way. I talked about him. He killed he used chemical weapon. He destroy people. Let's look what US did over the last 15 years America the land of democracy. America the land of freedom and people outside America treasure America for the kind of Freedom people have So, let's see what America did what America trait how America treated Saddam over the time? the cooperation between Iraq and Saddam started from the beginning even before the Iranian War but America that time was not very much involved politically and other things in 1982. when Iranian Army achieved some important victories On Iraq, and at that time almost a damn finished and everybody believed Saddam finished. The Kinks the emir's they were worried if Iraq Collapse then the Iranian Army and the Iranian Revolution. God is going to be just a few hours. From what they can do about it. They came back to America and at that time America increase its support to Iraq the security share information gave him a billion of credit high-tech all the support. In 1984, they re-established diplomatic relation between Iraq and United (00:36:35) States. (00:36:39) In spite of Saddam using chemical weapon Saddam killing his people. It doesn't matter in 1986. When you are sent a weapon to Iran, it is very interesting story because a person told Saddam never trust American and immerse Adam is a smart man, but he is not educated man, and he doesn't understand the West so for him when he made a gentlemen's agreement with the west and specially with America and establish diplomatic relation and American hated Ayatollah Khomeini. He couldn't understand how America send our been to Iran so they said to him never trust American as a foreign policy. Since that time Saddam took the advantage of the situation. So what he did he use chemical weapon more. He used chemical Robin even against his people. What's American response State Department here said we strongly condemn the action then business as usual. How do we feel as Iraqi people about that? I'll leave that to you then. when they call it accident when Iraq showed the ships in the Persian Gulf actually and about 37 American Soldier was killed. There are rumor and people love when they hired it is accident Iraqi people, you know think it was an accident at all (00:38:28) indeed (00:38:29) Saddam want to put America on the not that I'm fighting Force 5. And this is the we're so dumb killed people if he wants to. But the president Regan was so weak at that time. After Iran gets so they couldn't really talk about it very much and Iraq said sorry so damn kills his own people then he walks in their funeral in Iraq. So this is not unusual for Saddam to kill somebody then say, sorry. There is any story actually which is true story after the war is finished and there are some general become a problem not in Iraq as Army as a people. He invited them to go to visit the South part of Iraq. So they were two helicopter going they had reception. He made speak. He compliment them. He gave them gift. Whatever then he said, let's go Lee. In one airplane about 47 and he and his guard with him. He arrived to work dad the other plan had an accident. So he was working in the funeral Iraqi people knows was Saddam capable to do. So, this is the brief history about the relationships. Between United States and America Saddam become a president in Iraq because he is ruthless. Saddam become a president in Iraq because he is dangerous. And people who complain about Saddam today Kuwaiti sorority and United States of America knows that. But araki people when they complain about that nobody listen to them. No, we have a problem. What can be done for the future? We want to make sure. These things does not repeat itself again. I think there are a positive outcome. from this crisis in the Gulf and I believe the United States of America has a golden opportunity. The whole world is moving and the Democracy started everywhere in the world. And the wind of democracy moving. To the region in the Middle East and nobody is going to stop that and they stomach movement getting strong and strong everyday. If the United States of America miss this opportunity and become a leader of the world to support the man and women in Arab Street for their freedom and democracy. The interests of the United States is going to suffer for a long time. You can't have a freedom and deny it for other people. You can't apply democrats for you or double standard. I have to say Since the crisis started I found the President Bush the way he dealt with the crisis in very excellent manner. I'm saying that for the record and I'm standing here tonight to talk about my country and the steak and the risk is high and I say that for the record I admire President Bush. I respect President Bush in the way. He dealt with the situation. He's experienced man. He's a smart man and he is the bending or very capable man's with him. But the issue it is not only President. Push the issue goes beyond of Russian president push. It is an Institutional issue. The issue is u.s. Foreign policy in the region. Foreign policy maker in Washington must understand. People dignity be able freedom is important. You cannot deny be able freedom. Every man and woman in Arab street now saying give me the unity Give Me Freedom or I'll die. And as I said in our aboard culture reveal more than politics at now Islamic movement moving and this is part of the culture of Arab people. There is no political forces is going to stop that and the time is right because the first time in the history, we see the United Nation working effectively a trying to establish peace around the world. America been worried the last maybe two three years because they've been talking about changing power decision around the world. If we look to the power position around the world either technologically economically or military. Over the last 30 40 years when the Cold War America was the leader many people start to talk that United Europe Germany job an American is losing because the dimensions of power in the world moving from military to economic and Technology, but American now improve still you as the leader of the world, but you can't be a leader with a double standard. There are a moral and ethical issues give people help people to have their freedom people in our report admire America as a people. people in Arabic love America because they are they American example is a great example for every man and woman in our abort but they need the support of America. Finally Saddam dumped by his Ambitions and Saddam must go. if Saddam stay whatever the solution. the crisis is going to be only postponed for some time the man must go and do you know people in Arab or said don't trust America because maybe another two three months they make some agreement with him exactly what they did with the Iranian when Reagan sent the weapon to Ayatollah Khomeini. So with your support with your understanding and I'm here today to tell you who a Saddam and why he invaded Kuwait I'll try to stop here and I'll try to answer your question. This is a brief. This is a very sensitive and emotional subject for me and it is the story of my life. I could talk about it the whole day actually and excuse me if I get emotional some time, so I'll try to answer your question and to your concern. There are I have to repeat your question because we are live so they asked me to do that. You ask if there are any strong forces in Iraq could reveal now. No. Because Saddam destroy every possible. Forces and in America, they wanted have been with in one night. No, it takes time if I'm American and the rest of world are bayesians it takes time it will happen. But you are we are not talking about one to three months maybe but these things takes time. Yes. This is a sensitive issue because Saddam now playing many cards you ask me if the removal of Saddam by United States is acceptable for Arab states that the question okay, this is very sensitive issue because Saddam now playing many cards and playing religion cards his deal in Arab world. There are two things what there are personal issue and there are a main issue issue ability to everybody if you talk with any Rocky person any Rocky person who now Saddam very well. They welcome any action to remove Saddam. But if you talk with Palestine people was Jordanian. Saddam a beer to them Saddam able to them not as a person but the issue he started to talk about it these people especially Palestine people are tired from foreign policy in the region because America is not fair with Palestine people over the last 30 years. So at least there is a man who speak So they are with him and they are supporting him. We as an Iraqi people. We see him any different way and we believe if he removes will be better and safe for Iraq and for all out of courses, so that is a different. Yes. his hate you see Saddam destroy so many things and everybody hated that man and he hated he eliminate every potential dangerous for him. I don't know if I had the question. Well, you see Iraq is a peaceful country really and the Kurdish people they removed now from the north to the South and they live with the people in a peaceful and people are simple. It's not only Kurdish people in the South suffered the same everybody suffer from Saddam. So it is not only these people he used chemical or been again this but he used even worse things against certain people when he takes his security take them. (00:49:17) Yes. (00:49:19) Okay. Well, as I said Saddam do whatever it takes him to maintain his power period if it takes him to go on war with the United States, he will do it right now Saddam now is very, well. He cannot defeat United States and he is avoiding this clearly. That's why he kept the hostage and they shoe things changing very much and if he reached a boy and he's going to finish he tried to take everybody with him. Actually. I think if the issue just for Saddam to leave Kuwait Saddam will leave Kuwait tomorrow. Actually you see in our aboard you don't listen what the leader says. Rather than the behavior of the leader how they behave. So Saddam says I will not leave Kuwait but if he get a guarantee from the west and the United States that you not said it's not going to attack he will live it and there is a talk now Russian and other people but he knows he knows United State after him personally because if Saddam go back to Iraq, we are not changing anything because he is the problem. And as long as Saddam there there is a problem. If he is smart, he will withdraw now then he create problem for the United States because all the support from the United Nation is going to stop said well he withdraw from Kuwait. What can we do about it? There is no easy solution period and there is no way easy way to get Saddam out of Kuwait. However United States accepted the responsibility when President Bush sent his forces here, I'm sure they accepted the responsibility if you ask me if he is worth it to get any sent people and the War I would say no and in spite of probably are more than anybody I would like see him to remove but if the issue innocent people it's no but I believe strongly if they squeeze him economically and politically he's going to finish but it takes time and I don't think us and the West economy the way it is built as able to wait because Iraq as I said agriculture Nation, they could easily wait for one year. So if you think the economic pie cart is going to Saddam within 3 months 6 months actually today I received call from Iraq and I was talking with the Bibble. No problem. They could stay one year and in Iraq, like any dictator you see people are cheering him and but people cannot speak. So people in Iraq, they are not going to speak out unless things get very very bad and that's takes (00:52:14) time. Yes. (00:52:18) Yes. He will he will Saddam do whatever it takes him. Period I mean he used it before he do whatever it takes him to maintain his power if it takes him to use chemical he will the man has no moral. Has a personality disorder, I believe at least. Well, I'll tell you what, the Israel issue is very centered sensitive issue. And I think now what Israel did but the United States and the soldier in very difficult situation. And that's one of the problems Arab people has with the u.s. Foreign policy in the region you as I mean supporting Israel in the region in the region and that's when and by everybody and Arab people are very much tired. They ask for fairness and equal treatment. So for the interest of the United States and for the interest of Saudi Arabia and other who are supported with the West Israel should stay away because if Israel involved in the situation is going to bring the issue Arab West United States and slide and Saddam using it right now, but people are not supporting very much to certain extent but every slight keep doing what it's doing. Now. A lot of people is going to join them. (00:53:40) Yes, sir. (00:53:41) I'll tell you Saddam does not stay right now more than six hours in one place period he moved from one place to another place and Saddam if he goes out to visit anywhere, there are 14 Mercedes car all of them black and all of them in everyone. There are only two people and all of them. They drive hundred thirty and hundred forty so you don't know in which one is City and you have to guess. Yes. Yes, he is a Fred. well If he goes out, he goes out with to 3,000 bodyguards and these people from his family. For his family period I mean and beside that he changed the whole structure when I said when he take these people and business and they are very rich throw them on the border. He brought his own people and they said this is your business. So as in one day the whole Elite or the wealth destruction in Iraq change, I mean, his people wanted they were poor they don't have now they control all the wealth and Saddam there is a possibility. Actually you see an issue not all the Saddam rather than all his family because all his people committed a lot of crime. And now if there is pressure on Saddam is going to come from his own family because they knew of saddam's go all of them. They'll gone. They've been so it's really the only message Saddam received which I thought is an excellent. I mean as a from sociological perspective and as any Rocky, I thought the general and they are Force when he said we go to him we'll go and personally and to his family and to his lady. I think that was an accident. We have different value. They fired him in America. We in Iraq without towards good message actually. These people have Saddam stay these people are finishing very quick. And if Saddam is go if United States is not supporting the freedom and democracy in the region. As I said, this is an abortion. It is a turning point in the history. Because their stomach movement getting very strong and people tired from waiting if the United States does not take the leadership position and support these people all of them. They'd be gone. They started already to talk about it now in Saudi Arabia just two days ago Kuwaiti government start to talk about the Democratic process. They are going to start and quit, you know, we talked about Kuwait and we think weight as I heard on TV as a Democratic Society Kuwait government committed a crime actually it is the only country in the world. To best of my knowledge besides South Africa, I think Kuwait has a Three Degree for their citizen citizen number one citizen number 2 and citizen less people. And this is how our human dignity has been denied in Kuwait. So the government of Kuwait committed a lot of grime they are not clean in this regard and be able in Iraq on all our board. They don't feel sorry about Kuwaiti government. I mean like indeed they welcome it because this Amir King spend their billions and the Rivera and other side and people are hungry. So the issue of Amir. It's not very really attractive as you and the region. You see the family also bar family Alice Assad family ruling the Kuwait Alice Ruth's family runic Saudi Arabia. Al-hashimi family rolling Jordan all these family who provide them the waist brought them. So the conflict is about family as much as about Nations people cry about their Nations and they want to have a freedom and also bar and this family want to keep and stay in power. You don't hear about these people because the media tell you only about The Prince and the King when they go to Las Vegas, or they go to the river, but the other people you don't care about them. No matter who is going to be it's going to be better than Saddam period I guarantee it to you. Okay, people sick and tired from war the Iraqi people wants to live in peace and could be some arrangement be them. There is nothing pure actually life is risk and only death is not risk. So we have to admit the risk how I mean why we support a Saddam all these years. So I know where I want to say to the American people as a true Saddam is a dangerous man, but the West makes a damn. And now the West have to get rid of (00:58:41) Saddam that was dr. Obvious matey a native of Iraq now an assistant professor of Sociology at st. Cloud State University until he gave this speech. Dr. Moretti had answered questions from the media only if his anonymity was maintained his speech at st. Cloud State was titled Saddam Hussein and the gulf crisis past present and future.