In the second half of the hour today, we hear Al Shanker president of the American Federation of teachers. He was in labor in the Opera st. Paul area last week to visit the experimental Chiron and Saturn schools in the Twin Cities tracker gave a speech about education reform to the business action resource consult and the Community Affairs Roundtable of the Minneapolis and st. Paul Chambers of Commerce. The time of his speech is how employers can make a difference in education here is Albert Shanker.For those of you I have not had a chance to dress before or set the stage. I need to spend the just a few minutes talking about how bad things are in order to convince you that a little bit of tinkering or a little bit of Back to Basics or a little bit of let's have a slightly better textbooks or slightly longer a year or slightly longer day or all these other things whether they're good or bad that these are not enough will not be enough to get the results that we need.If you look at 17 year olds who are still in school, that means most the dropouts have gone. And if you look at those 17 year olds who are about to graduate who perform at really good levels of functioning and basic field. Are you get a picture of how vast the problems are and how far we have to go. The national assessment for educational progress issues these reports each year in different subjects and they check out these youngsters were about to graduate and Reading Writing mathematics. Social studies science and the number of other fields and the good news is that almost nobody is really illiterate. Another piece of very good news is that minardi's are catching up very quickly. Started out very far behind are still behind but we can see if you just project the rates of change that parties will will soon catch up. The bad news is that when almond Artis ketchup that we will still have a national educational disaster on our hands cuz basically the overwhelming majority of our population is not reaching a very good levels in education and the way to see this is to look at the top functioning that is how many kids were about to graduate or able to write a good letter or essay how many who are graduating are able to read some pretty complicated material something that's worth reading what percentage of them are able to do two-step arithmetic proud verbal problems. I think one of the most difficult to believe it or not is a problem that says Mary Jane deposited $500 in a bank which pays 9% simple interest per year and she withdraws her money at the end of one year. How much will she have? The percentage of youngsters were able to function at the at the highest level. Aa345 or 6% depending upon which subject you select 3 4 5 or 6% Otherwise only about 3% of the youngsters are able to write a good essay or letter now if you move down to the next level and say all right that top-level. That was really a good letter of applying for a job. The next level will be a letter that's one or two paragraphs and it's got some grammatical errors in it and some spelling errors, but at least it makes a point higher maybe cause and there's there's a reason a person has written a letter has figured out that the purpose of the letter is to get the person was reading it to 10 Hiram other percentage of youngsters are able to write that one or two paragraphs with some errors is 20%. 80% of those graduating cannot write a one or two paragraph letter that contains a single idea in it. now that is all of us it seems to me is evidence for going one of two ways one would either have two very radically transform our schools or secondly, we got to look around the world. Has anybody else doing better? And the answer is yes, all other industrial countries in the world are doing much better. If you look at the high school graduation or college entrance exams in Canada or Australia Great Britain, France Germany Holland Belgium or any other any of these other countries, you'll find that these countries are producing anywhere between 16 to 35 or 40% of the youngsters were able to do as well as our top three four or five percent in other words. It can be done. So I guess the next thing as well if they're doing it. Why don't we do it just the way they're doing it? In order to do that, we would have to make a list of all the major differences between the way we do it in the way they do it. And if you make that list, you'll find that we can't do it their way. For a lot of reasons. I'll just give you three very quickly one. All of the teachers in Germany have gotten into German colleges and universities and graduated from them. And that means that all those teachers are the equivalent to being in the top 3% of Lee high school graduates in United States. But we only produce 3% were able to write a letter or an essay about 23% of our college graduates become teachers. It's quite clear that the fact that are high schools and colleges turn out a very much smaller number of people who are able to read write and calculate also means that we have a much smaller percentage of teachers for able to do that at the same level as those in other countries. That's not the blame Any teacher who's who's there now, they all went to college on the basis of the rules. I got certified on the basis of the rules and we only produced that number so that's one problem. But second very clear one. Is it almost every one of these other systems and gauges in Fairly heavy and early tracking of youngsters that is in the fourth grade. They'll give every kid in the country a test now, so you're smart. You're going to give nauseam you're not so smart. You're going to real show and you're dumb you're going to talk show. Well, we're not going to do that this country those other systems started as a lead systems for the rich and I've actually educate everybody else. Where is our whole idea was that if we're going to have a country with different races religions are countries of people from different National Origins. The function of the school was to innocence americanize. There's no such word as to franchise with the German or English. I mean, it's very interesting United States is the only country that has that concept but it also defines a different mission for our schools, which is to create a people of cultural Nation to enable people to live and get along with each other in ways that other countries have not seen fit to make part of the national ideal. So there's one other thing which is a key element and I am going to talk about that in a few minutes that has to do with the fact that he knows other countries. There are very heavy incentives for youngsters. To do better in school the incentives for youngsters are much greater than they are in the United States. So now I want to get two more directly after having I painted a rather pessimistic picture of where we are by the fact that others are doing it shows that we can do much better. We are not a stupid people were not a people lack resources might affect our whole history shows that were able to overcome some very very substantial obstacles. And there is no doubt that that we will find ways to do it and to get it right At what? Is it that the business Community can and should do I say the first thing is to understand where we are and by understanding I mean get away from these idiotic standardized tests or even Dropout rates mostly kid to drop out come back to school and they get diplomas and they go to a community colleges. I'm a lot more worried about the kid who sits there is dropped out in his head, but we don't count him cuz he's coming everyday the kid is left is smart enough to know he's not getting anything out of the school probably goes out to find out how tough the world is comes back in a little while get away from numbers that are relatively meeting was the meeting was kind of Body Count. And take a look each year at these National assessment results and ask yourself. If only 3% of the kids in the United States can really write a letter or an essay even if Minnesota is a lot better than the rest of the country. What's the percentage here? Well, if we're twice as good as the rest of the country will have 6% and we're probably not twice as good. So the results here probably somewhere the first thing is to start thinking of educational outcomes think of important outcomes. Can the kids write can they read are they able to do real problems? Are they able to work with each other? Are they able to ask questions? But something is not measured anywhere. Out there in the world, you're much more productive and creative employee if you can it all we got in school are problems that you got us all very rarely in the world. Are you just giving a handmade problem until give me the answer to this first problem. You've got to figure out what the problem is. It's usually very messy and you've got a select from a very complex situation. We're in schools. Do we do that till the first thing is to start thinking educating ourselves in your own Community about what are the outcomes in the system now? Secondly the man that we use good measures good measures on measures like these National assessment measures, they're not perfect. But they're a heck of a lot better than these idiotic things over 57% of our kids are above average, you know, so what If the average kid doesn't know how to read and write that just means you got a few who can you know, if you got 57% above average, so it's all in favor of testing. I'm all in favor of assessment, but we are so bogged down in our objective tests. We think that if you give a kid a question with a b c d e and he's got a pic from the alternative that subjective. At the world will made up of problems where every day we had to pick from five Alternatives. We would have the most brilliant people in the world because we spent 12 years doing that. What essential you wouldn't hire a typist by giving the type is the standardized testing typing write 15 questions or multiple choice asking the typist where each key is that why hasn't anyone thought of that brilliant idea write a standardized typing test because you know very well, it's somebody could memorize all the things on the keyboard and still not know how to type right the two totally different things and the same is true of all your other standardized test. That is I've got nothing to do with really reading really solving problems really riding or doing anything else. Oxford vs. To really get to an understanding of the issues second is to get a real assessment process going so that you know, what the outcomes are. There. It is a support fundamental changes. I'll find a metal changes Jack Bao short IBM when asked about the reform movements first five or six years I said, well he said if if I were managing an IBM plant where 30% of the computers Philadelphia assembly line before they ever reached the end and I couldn't find them and if 95% of those that did come off the assembly line didn't work most of the time. He said I don't think I'd want to run that assembly want an extra hour a day or an extra month a year. That is the whole mentality that if you're doing something wrong do it for more hours. Now that's reform is kind of stupid. If you don't have something wrong figure out what's wrong and you've got to rethink the whole process. That's the kind of thing that's going on in in Colorado and Saturn. That is we we pretty much know what's wrong with schools. And that is that most people can't sit still for five hours a day Listen to Somebody talk to them. Most people know somebody talks to and find it very easy to just relax and kind of Daydream will go to sleep or have sexual fantasies. Most people any given what he's tuned out after a while. She only one person left it be there at school. People people learn at different rates. But if the teacher if the way you learning as from the teacher talking with damn well better learn at the same rate the teacher is talking because she can't or he can't talk 26 or 25 different times that people don't like to be humiliated by being called on to give an answer when they don't have it and everybody's looking at them I waited and what you need to do is to promote the kind of changes that will save for those kids who can't sit still how they going to learn for those who can't listen all day how they going to learn we all learn a lot by listening to someone else talk. We learn by doing things ourselves and if you go out there and wherever you work in an office or shop or a plant or something and turn to the person next to you and say, where did you learn that? It'll be very rare occasion when a person says I learned that in school but chances are the person wearing it on the job. I mean the two pieces of bad news and education one. Places that most people can't learn the way we teach them and the other bad news is those who do learning very well aren't learning the damn thing that they can use later on or what is basically an apprenticeship program. That is a turn for the person next to them. You are somebody said come on in and hear the people near you and they will show you what to do. Nobody says come on and sit down and this is what you learned in Psychology 235 or comes right out of the course now fundamental change. Out finally I want to deal with the issue of incentives just been a few minutes on that. I want to talk about in a sentence for kids and I'm also going to talk about in Spanish for the adults. And this is not a message that I should have to spend an awful lot of time on we live in a very interesting. Time in the history of the world for a long time. There were two different philosophies. I want them said that you had to have incentives in the other one said you really didn't have to have and sinus if you just the gay people certain basic conditions that everybody would end up doing the right thing and I'm speaking of the Communist system as a matter of fact be at back in the 1930s one that was a worldwide depression. But a lot of people felt that this was a wasteful system on the competitions and working as soon as didn't work. And why should you be making 20 different automobiles to compete with each other once through Central planning if it make one automobile and not waste all the money on advertising in on the competition everything else. Now it seems to me that everybody has reached the same conclusion that the other system doesn't work and at this one and perfect as it is and I'm even though it needs to occasional adjustment to support a safety net and everything else that this one does work and we don't have to get that from the mouths of our own leaders. We just have to read mr. Gorbachev speeches on the speeches of the Communist leaders and every one of the country's that's now turning to a market system. Well one of the last Soviet systems to adjust the world. Is American public education? And let's for a few minutes take a look at this situation. I talked to a few minutes ago about incentives for students students in almost every one of these other countries work much harder than students doing the United States now, why is it is it that our people are inherently lazy. Is it biology? Is it televised you will I've got television and they also have divorce rates. They have not the same as our problems. But all these countries do have substantial social problems. That is very simple. I understand + city is that People do what they need to do in order to get where they want to go. And if I come to you and ask you why you why you taking courses at night while you going to school while you're doing this want both cuz I want to be there. So I want to do that or it's people are doing things because it gets them somewhere now and European countries and in Canada and Australia and Japan and Korea, I'm deliberately leaving out the Oriental countries because people say they have a different culture. They don't vary so much is culturally Shore some differences about vast differences educationally, basically when I was a kid, my mother said to me at least once a day if you don't do better than that, you're not going to be able to go to college. And you know what? I believed her and you know what else it was true because in those days not very many people got into college. There were a limited number of places in college and if you don't want to go to college you took algebra and geometry and trigonometry and advanced algebra solid geometry and calculus college, but didn't make it took those things too, and they worked very very hard. Now I couldn't do that with my kids. I couldn't look at my kids and say if you don't do better you won't be able to go to college because they want to meet Lee brand me a liar. They would say hey anybody can go to the college. That's true. So one of the things that we need to consider in our society is not to all of a sudden move back to what the old standards were. But the fact is that The figures I gave you at the beginning of comparing what our students know with what European students now essentially show that 95% of the kids. Go to college. The United States would not be able to go to college in any other country in the world. So what we have are an American people who are very happy because 55% of the kids are going on a college. That's what makes them feel. Our schools are a fine education flying the amount of kids work that the kids are going. That's all right. I mean if my kitchen stay up and watch television and and work after school and everything else to still go to college. You must be okay. Raise the kids want to call just cuz she's about to get his junior high school education in college or is high school education. Got our admission standards. I'm not opposed to allowing kids who have not learned something in high school to to have continuing free education. But you shouldn't have you shouldn't call a college education. That is a college should give you a college education. And if you tighten up there, you'll have many many more youngsters working hard to get in the college then you do now. The only kids are work real hard. Now. It doesn't want to get into Elite universities where there are a limited number see they work hard. Everybody else takes it easy second part of it has to do with something that goes on these other countries as well. And that is in all other countries. There was a relationship between how well a student did in high school and the kind of job. He gets as soon as he gets out of I School how soon he gets a job and how much money he earns as soon as he gets out. That is what's take somebody who in Great Britain who they have a levels and all levels there. These would like merit badges that say you did it exceptionally well or pretty well at a given subject suppose somebody graduates with a levels and O levels in different subjects and comes to you as an employer. As an employer you're you're going to ask for a transcript and you're going to say alright, let's see what you do cheat once you got all that you could have gone to college. Well that person is not going to start of the minimum wage job that person isn't going to wait two or three years to find a job that person is going to be immediately grabbed up by Simon player who says this kid is a kid who really knows something and start moving them and the kid who merely complete school but hasn't learned very much is going to wait a longer time. What do you think would be the results if everybody who offered part time jobs the high school kids every employer. Let steak Pizza Hut, let's take McDonald if they supposed to every one of these companies said when you go to the high school kids when you come here, you bring your transcript a letter of recommendation from your teacher. I want to know your attendance record. I want to know where do you take an easy? Subject a tough subject. I want to know how many questions you taking this year. I don't want to know what your record is. I only want to let you know that we are a merit employer. We're going to employ those kids who are the cream of the crop in school get the first job and then we work our way down. And those were not such good students we take last and those or failing anything or doing we're not going to hire you because we're going to contribute to your failure in school. What would be the effect on student effort and student performance if employers will employ kids were to announce that? There's no question. It would be absolutely electrifying you can do an awful lot more if you're in the world of business and if you want employers collectively and individually you can do more to improve student. You can return respect conference authority to teachers in schools. Every teacher in the country can be turning to those youngsters. And so I can help you get a job if you will do gospel song Now that's a that's extremely important. And I think that if the business community and I think the efforts that have been made so far should continue but of all things whether it's Financial after it's whether it's a doctor school programs for the other efforts of one single thing that the business Community could do that would do more. How to get students to work in school is precisely this to an able parents teachers Brothers just as guidance counselors to tell the kid what you do here in school will make a difference next month next year next semester and what happens to you outside in the world and let the stories get around. I didn't listen to them. I didn't work. Look where I am. Now. I did listen to him. I took these tough courses. I got good marks. I attended regularly. Look where I am now, but if there's an example right now, you know, what happens to the kid who is a top-notch kid in the school and the kids was the bottom can they all work out at that? They both walked out of school the next day who's got a better chance of getting a job. Who get paid more money? Makes no difference, you know what makes no difference corporations that have really good jobs offer. Basically don't hire anybody until the 24 25. They want to wait until these kids to try that. In other words. You're really telling every kid who worked hard and who did it, but it doesn't make any difference difference. Eventually. The kids will really work. Well will do. Well told me if you if you check them out 10 or 15 years later, but for the first five or six years there will be no difference. That's a very long. Time. That's what they see. They see what happens to them as soon as they get out. Now, I think that the same kind of competitive reward principles or to be applied to the adults in the schools. The horrible thing is not so much that we're doing so poorly the horrible thing is that we keep doing so poorly and you do not see any massive effort out there to really change things. If a private business were performing in the way our schools perform that is only three or four or 5% of its products where you Isabel it may all right, that's the result today, but you could be damn sure that that company would sit down I would try to figure out every way of changing its way so that within a relatively short. Of time the results will be different. That's what you don't say in public education in America is not only that we're doing poorly but you don't see any efforts at real and substantial change. And the reason is that it doesn't make any difference if you keep turning out bed products and keep doing the job the way I spend on your rewards are exactly the same as if you try to do something better as matter fact, if you try to do something about her you're likely to be Nice way to buy everybody a central Administration is likely to say that you're making life a little more difficult cuz you're doing it differently the State Board of education's likely not to give you a waivers. If you want to do things a little differently parents are likely to walk in and illiterate parent is likely to walk in and say that doesn't look like School the way it was when I went there. I want my kids to get the same good education. I got that is everybody tends to be opposed to change. And so what we need if we're to bring about change. There's to have competition with rewards and with punishments and I would suggest that you think about devising in Minnesota something which for want of better terms. I would call her a merit school program, but you could call it something else suppose that every school in Minnesota where to be considered a chain and gays in a competition. I suppose that these teams had two for five years enough time so that they could experiment and try different things cuz we know the First new thing you tried isn't going to work supposed to had a little time but suppose that after four or five years, we would give our substantial prizes to schools that made substantial progress in getting many more kids were able to read at that top level right at that top-level do mathematical problems added value is what I want to reward that is where you start. Where did you end up where you able to bring people from lower levels of functioning the higher levels of functioning? I would give each school right to have its own budget. I would give parents the right to move the kids out of school if they didn't like what the faculty was doing at moving to another school. And as I said, I would give him for 5 years and I'm not bother them. But at the end of that supposedly took the top schools and we awarded every member every person who worked in that school suppose. We gave them reward just 20 or 30 or $40,000 each. My way that would not cost a lot of money cuz I'm not talkin about giving it to everybody. I'm talking about giving that to what's a 10% of the schools as you figure out the mathematics so that if you were to put a relatively small amount of money and why each year you'll be able to do that as far as we had some rewards for those who made progress but not quite weren't quite in the top 10% League. I suppose with the let's say 3 for 5% at the very bottom who actually move backwards and the kids didn't learn. I was supposed to be closed those schools. I suppose that those schools were taken over by the faculties of the schools that were the winning schools and we're offered some incentives to shape those schools up start happening in schools like that. All the faculty would start talkin wouldn't they? I better start saying. That'd be an interesting discussion and that they'd be interested in and then be a reason they now have the power to do something. But in addition to the power they all would also know they're going to be winners and losers having the power to do something doesn't necessarily make you change. And they start thinking about well are we better off with 50 teachers in the school? If we have to hire a certain number of people who are not qualified or would we be better off with your teachers and more college students interns residents power professionals technology. How do we get the students interested? How do we get the parents interested? They would start thinking of all sorts of different things and you would have a world in which the same kind of Ingenuity that goes into making better better mousetraps and computers and other things would go into making better and better schools after 5 years of doing over again continue doing it. Again again faculties would take Collective responsibility at improving members of staff for a week. And eventually they would take responsibility for advising some people to leave if they felt they were dragging the team down. That's what we need. That's why was system. Now one final item in that is we have 16000 school districts in this country and 100000 schools and a whole country almost everybody is doing the same old thing which doesn't work for most kids that are fuel prices. They're doing something different a few of them are in Dade County Florida a few weather in Toledo. If you're in Cincinnati, if you were in Rochester wanted to a New York City Simon Pittsburgh, but you've got a few right here. You got Saturn and you got Chiron and it is very important as you try to get everybody else to start thinking people have all grown up going to the same kind of schools. They have no idea and it has about what a different school would look like. Hope it's like talking about a family with no mother no father, you know start imagining that you can't imagine it basically said well if it doesn't have a mother and father is not a family well, Schools are going to have to be very different. And in order to get other people to try things. You got to create models. They have to see that they're able to live and work and succeed. It totally different kinds of environments and you have right here to of those which are really not just local Treasures but National models and problem when you get little things like this is there's not enough political support to sustain them. And in addition to trying to devise a new way of educating kids. They've got suspicious members of faculties want to know what they're doing. They've got stayed hierarchy who won't change rules. You've got superintendent or committed but all the other people in the central bureaucracy aren't necessarily committed. They're going to fight they've got a heck of a job on our hands give them support and support means political support financial support moral support because you only Chance you have developing something new is to have some models out there show that something else works. Thank you. Albert Shanker president of the American Federation of teachers speaking on education reform to the business action Resource Council and the Community Affairs Roundtable to the Minneapolis and st. Paul Chambers of Commerce how employers can make a difference in education that was the title of Albert shanker's address. He was in the Twin Cities area. It was just last week as a matter of fact. 2 minutes now before 1 around the area mostly sunny skies. Although International Falls is still cloudy 37° there. Otherwise, let's see. We have sunny skies. And Sioux Falls is 40° 37 in Fargo-Moorhead Rochester is 39 Saint Cloud 43 Duluth superior 38. The Twin Cities is the warm spot this afternoon with 46 degrees and sunny skies. Although it's tempting to think about sneaking out maybe the golf course which is an open of course, but so what just hit a few around, huh? Now we won't do that couple of items in the news today an American Diplomat who is suspected of spying for the Soviets is being suspended without pay the state department gave notice today to Felix Bloch former US Embassy official in Austria members of the Communist Party in the Soviet Union have accepted Mikhail Gorbachev proposal to allow a rival parties to compete with the Communists, but the plan must still be approved by the Supreme Soviet and the Congress of people's deputies. Good afternoon, the scary actor last year at the Minneapolis and st. Paul City council's set their sights on plastic packaging adopting local ordinances designed to limit such packaging with the goal of helping the environment now council members are turning their attention to Ozone protection will have that story on NPR Journal this afternoon also will check in with Calvin Griffith living the good life on Florida's East Coast. We'd like to join us V on her music station's 5:30 stations major funding for Minnesota public radio programming is provided by 3M maker of 3M data storage products for home office in school. That's midday for today. This is Bob Potter.