I should let you know what my bias is off since you don't know who I am one of the great advantages of flying in flying out say anything you want you leave and everyone's left with the problem. So let me give you a few of them and I think they do represent when I say mind represent the district to a great extent one. We really believe that meaningful change can take place in the most difficult of situations East Harlem is not an easy situation and We did we were able to make change. I personally believe in the Judo principle, you take the negative force or the force of your opponent you turn it to your advantage and John said it film it's true. One of the advantages to being the worst. That you willing to take risks you willing to be Innovative. It's those mildly successful ones. You have to look out for the people are satisfied with their not fantastic, you know, but they're just happy not being in the spotlight of being the worst because those people don't want to change becomes a problem. Why is to I believe strongly in public education? So when I talk about Joyce it's in public education. And the reason I say that is I got a lot of support from secretary Bennett Margaret Thatcher, all the conservatives in the world seem to support what we're doing you by now. You most probably know. I'm not a conservative. but I think choice in public education is a responsibility we have We cannot take our constituency for granted. You've got to give them quality education one of the ways you do that is through choice now. I could give you many examples, but I'll give you the important ones. I live in Queens, which is not in the Bronx. I used to live in the Bronx. But now I live in Queens is a bridge separating the two. When I need a haircut, I go to the Bronx like overbridge I pay told and so on because a haircut is an important thing. Now the neighborhood School concept that sacred concept is obviously not as important as my haircut or else I'd be able to have a choice in which school I go to New York City. We have many apartment buildings with their doctors and dentists. No one who lives in apartment building that has a doctor or a dentist in that building goes to that doctor or dentist. People from the other side of town come to that doctor or dentist or else they'd be broken doctors and dentists are not broke but no one who lives in the building goes to that doctor that. But then we're talking about medical care. So my point is when we talk about schooling why not have that same option of choice? by a street real complicated one in order to get somewhere. You have to know where you want to go. And that's best Illustrated in Alice in Wonderland Alice. As you recall this lost in the woods run this way that way she comes upon the wise owl just why is ow, which way should I go just where do you want to get to because I don't know. It doesn't matter which way you go and that's what's wrong with too many of our schools. Leadership of that school. The school itself doesn't know where they're trying to go to and I tell our principles. Listen, if you don't know what you're trying to go stay in your office. It's better than coming out and say check out this way. Should I go that way? I say go right back into the office. Now what I'm saying? Is you have to have this is liberal, Minnesota so I can talk about dreams. Well conservative groups. I talked about goals conservative like goals liberals like dreams in between our visions and missionaries. I don't know where but I prefer dreams Visions missions and goals got to have that dream. And you can't keep it to yourself. So how you develop that dream determines how many people know what it is? So naturally a shared dream is better than one you have for yourself. Because then you go home and tell your wife or your mother. My dream is this and no one else knows nothing changes. My point is a school must have a dream a vision mission a goal. What's going to go? No, it's going to stay where it is. And why do you want to stay where you are? Number four is one that is unnecessary for this group. And I mean that it's like bringing coals to Newcastle, but I give it to you because I'm not here to tell you what to do. I'm here to tell you what we do. I think George Bernard Shaw had it best. When it was asked the difference between a lady in the flower girl, his response was not how she behaves but how she's treated we in a district feel it's how you treat youngsters professionals parents that determines how they behave if you treat them with respect with high expectations. They will not disappoint you the other side is true if you don't treat them with respect. And with low expectations, they won't disappoint you either. That's an important aspect of what we try to do in District 4. I also believe very strongly that teaching and learning are so closely intertwined that you can't tell you can't separate them. Years ago when I was a principal I used to have in my office to sign it said something like it was a quote because I've heard it many times. He said I taught that but the children didn't learn it. And I had the question please define taught as it was used in that sentence the my way of thinking you haven't taught anything until someone learns it for example. Before sexism I used to say wife driving. I now say if I try to teach my son to swim. And he can't swim. I didn't teach him how to swim. I may have tried. I may have told him look you can swim move your arms. Kick your legs. That's what I think is very important schools. The focus has to be on teaching and learning. And that may be obvious to you but a lot of schools the focus is not on teaching and learning is a lot of other things. And I think that's an important belief that we have. Six, I think it's six. I just think smaller schools are better in larger schools. I've argued that all over this country. I always get the same argument. How can you do without the Comprehensive High School wide and I'm a choice person the wide variety of church and give everyone you take a look at the programs 95% of kids take the same subject. Something is lost when you get a large school, usually you. We later. I'll tell you about the time. We went into the high school business, but being dutiful. Educator because we knew nothing about high school business when we went into it, which I think was an advantage but I went to visit a high school. There's no 5,000 kids. I walked in I've been a lot of schools walked into the school and the kids were changing and I said together, where's the elevator? He said just standing in front of the elevator you get lost or anything happens to kids they go into these large institutions. They get lost but they can't tell anybody see I could tell somebody I'm lost because it doesn't matter. I really lost and I don't care that he thinks what a dummy I am then I'm lost. Kids can't do that big places and they keep it to themselves. So they disappear. So I think smaller schools are better. And he Elementary School teachers here. Just one well why not? I think the elementary school provides the best learning environment the kids. I think the college provides the worst as far as a classroom is concerned what happens because I teach at a college so I know come into a college classroom. What do you have? Yeah, you're sorry. Coming to a college classroom. You see little tin foil with cigarette butts in it and an old sign from World War II what to do in the event of a bomb go down to the building and pray go into an elementary school. And I think it works Elementary, then it's closed between junior high and high school, which is worse in terms of its but I know the college is the worst what happens if first day when Elementary School teacher Gets out that stapler bangs bangs bangs is suddenly that whole day is spent creating a learning environment where kids going to be happier. I teach it on to college graduate will always you should always be aware as you go up what they really think of the process because in graduate school, you only have to come to ours once a week because they know what's happening you see in elementary school. You have to be there six hours and 20 minutes without a break Those teachers in elementary school don't have what we call a discipline. They're trying to teach kids. And I know it's different in Minnesota than over here. But let's just talk about the deal in New York. They have a discipline. And that's what they were interested in their discipline. Half of them don't even know that discipline, but all right. But I think it's important that we create learning environments. I noticed we This group 32 very nice place. This is nice place to be even this place is nicest let well good sounds comfortable. That's what we have to do for kids got to create learning environments, but they're happy to be at I meant to spend that much time since we only had one Elementary, but it's Joe Nathan and it was worth it Joe. Number 8. I think I said it. Video, I think extending ownership. Everyone is the key to making a school successful. I know how many of you ever saw that film The Producers with zero mostel. They had the same scheme. They sold three hundred percent of the show, but they were counting on it to be a failure gave it great name of Springtime for Hitler. But unfortunately, it was a sex and they had a problem. But what we try to do. Is give everyone a sense of ownership that it's their school? How do you do that? Well to teachers you create an environment. I think that's what we've done but they feel free to come forward and say listen. In fact, we did it. We said bring us your ideas. I know how to educate kids. It's very interesting. You saw the military academy in science and Humanities. I knew John would go for you. See we had four great open ed schools. I knew he wouldn't go for that but there's something nice about that but it's that diversity. Now that guy over there who runs that school pretty good school. And since no one's going to come to New York and look him up John came back and said to me outside. I think that guy's crazy. I think he is a little crazy that ended that discussion but what I'm saying is we encourage teachers The come forward with the way they know how to educate kids. And they will kill themselves to prove that. That's the way you educate kids. So you extend ownership by giving him the possibility of the dream fulfilled. That's an incentive by the way, I'm all for incentives, but it's a real incentive. And it's always the person maybe I'm wrong about this, but I don't think so. It's always the person who is somewhat dissatisfied with the existing system. We always had. Certain criteria you had to be good at what you were doing. Creating a new school is not a way to get out of the classroom. You had to be a good teacher to teacher if you an AP had to be good AP. But that's how you give ownership is sold. So the directors of those schools know that that's cool is this now the parents and the kids get to choose that school because it meets their interests and their abilities. So the kids know and the parents know that that school is there. Nice capitalistic thought people tend to treat those things. They own better than things that someone else owns and the people treat these schools much better. Because they chose them because they have a sense of ownership. Now interestingly enough. It's easy to say bring us your ideas and and it's interesting as diverse as those teachers were because we had the science and Humanities marches and we had the open education progressives, but they all had the same response when you said yes, let's do it one. They were very surprised to they were shocked and three they were somewhat we're locked in to do it. Because their experience is always been this is a great idea. If only we were not in a financial crisis. If only the school board wasn't being elected this year. If only my contract isn't up wasn't up this year. There's always a reason and somehow I used to say. Well, let's do when John came. I tried to sell him into becoming a director of a journalism School. given enough time we could have done it but Maybe we still can. But that's how you give ownership and they suddenly see wow. These people mean it then you put them in business. And then you begin to protect them because recognize this you've got to protect innovative ideas Innovative schools because you can count on the making mistakes. Don't forget nod District we have now 52 schools and 20 buildings. It's easy to say that that means there was a principal in that building who thought he had or she had the ownership of that whole building now, there's three other schools in there. And since we're selling ownership everyone thinks they own his building. There are ways of working that out your support. The Innovative place you support the existing place. You let them see that there's an advantage that to they're having a smaller school in America. You believe we've got to get bigger and bigger. I always say why. Even these alternative schools get caught into that second. Listen, you became a great school because you're a small school. Why do you want to get bigger? I don't know America, you got to get bigger. So we protect those people and it's not that hard to protect them the superintendent. Lets people know we're interested in protecting them and they pretty good at protecting themselves. And what do you think the little angels and tiptoe around the school? They create a lot of problems. Now you might want to know. How we did it and I'd be happy to be questions that don't whenever you're ready. You tell me give me the hemmelman but cut it man. But we started with three schools. And as I said, we had no grand plan. Obi-Wan to A3 good schools And then it was easy with these three and I'll tell you why they all start at the same time the beta School better education through alternative were for acting out kids. Now everyone supports that school people who hate alternative education will support that school because basically it takes the kids who are creating problems in their school out of their building and I've often thought if we put up a facade of a building at the edge of a cliff they would still support that school. They excellent School takes so that's the easiest to open. And the most alternative you have to understand district for alternative does not mean acting out kids of the 26 we have there's one and a half acting out kids. So we run the whole spec but that was that's easy to do. If you're talking about the second easiest one to do is an open education School aggressive act and I'll tell you why usually the people who want that. They cause problems in your school. Who is getting up at conferences? Why don't we do this? Why don't we do that and even though they are good teachers the principal look Services. Why don't they go into an open? It's cool, you know, so it was very easy for us to staff our opening schools and they were very fine teachers. But they were troublemakers. now if they're troublemakers picture what the parents alike Of course, the parents are totally dissatisfied with the existing school and they get up at the school boards and no one else wants us to go to and they saw talking about what's happening in their school how there's no Hands-On experiences. There's no real thinking and creativity and so on. Then when they say we'd like an alternative school that's aggressive open-ended. Excellent idea all the printer excellent idea give it to them so you can open up those schools because you get to support of those teachers who believe in it and you know in a way they're an interesting group. They have a network that goes across the world, you know of open Educators. Well like them they kill themselves. They love to meet Saturdays and Sundays their favorite time to meet Are they develop good schools and they care about kids and their teacher LED schools because they're involved in the decision-making. Listen when you have a small school, you better involve everybody in decision-making or else you're going to do all the work. The third school that was not too difficult was performing arts because everyone says we're an academic place. You understand. It's non-threatening so you can open up a performing arts school. I want you to understand something. None of these schools performing arts schools goal is to make actors. Because actors are starving today 8% work. All these schools are vehicles to raise academic achievement to make better citizens of kids. And if they don't do that as nice as the Rapport is and the atmosphere is forget it. But one of the reasons I'm wearing a tie give you another bias. If you want to lead a revolution in New York City Schools, anyway, you have to wear a tie. If you wear booray, you can serve tea and cookies without being suspect. But if you wear a tie you can change the world. The only other guy wearing a tie is this guy must probably changing a lot, right? That's What I Call power ties This tie has a story this tie was meant for mayor Ed Koch. We had some visitors from London. They stayed in our school district for two weeks and live with us and they are mayor sent the tie to our mayor. He had no time to receive the tie so I'm happy about that because they gave me the time but this is really mayor Ed Koch has time, which is a real power Todd. Now we started those to be schools. Small start them we believe is done in schools at one grade level. You can't start a school 789 you let them create most of them were on the intermediate level. You take a seventh-grade actually take another step and I have 7 8 7 8 9 we do that within our 7 to 12 school each year you add some so no one can say where did these kids come from or who was your teacher last year you were their teacher last year and it's an important aspect in developing the school so that that ownership really is what's happening. Well, well, you should notice that we did not do the obvious and create a gifted School. Because when you create a gifted School you create it all depends how many schools you have? If you have 28 schools you get 27 enemies and one happy guy the principle of the gifted school and 27 guys who know that this is no good. We never went for a gifted School. Because we were not looking Minnesota. You don't have that problem. We weren't looking to lower someone's reading average by .5 big thing in New York City. There's New York City. They publish your reading scores and up. They do it here. But if you want anything if you want a value placed on something get the New York Times to publish the results. I don't care what it is our education your school's they publish it it becomes a major issue. So we never started with the gifted one. Although that's the Temptation because everyone's against it except the parents. Now I'm not going to tell you how each one. But each year. We added to one or two same way. I came forward so was happening. So I'd like to get into that business. Creating the school. So we got to around where we have. I think it's 26 now. Some of the schools were so popular. Those so same open ed schools Central Park East was the first we have Central Park he's too and then to be creative. We called One River East because you can't have you can have one and two but you can't have three that's cool Fields. Like you haven't given an identity we have now opened up Central Park e Secondary School Ted sizes part of that essential School business. So we have that school going from pre-k to grade 12 interesting place. which ear that happened and You may have some questions about that. now I don't like let me give you another thing. I think self-praise is about as good almost as good as no praise so you can take my word for it. All kinds of nice things said your former Governor said something. Nice. You're Nathan told me he wrote it so much for that all this time. I thought the governor wrote it. What is very helpful? to get recognition like a New York Times editorial goes a long way. So the district got schools that dare to compete and we publish it whenever we wanted to trouble. You know, we take out the time. Nail are pieces very helpful. President Reagan recognize the school district very helpful. Secretary Bennett Margaret Thatcher because see the company I'm traveling in the last time I saw I'll shank. It was in London England because they were discussing choice. In that whole system because they're really having a major Reform Act. But I would have some cautions. You need quality and diversity if you're going to have choice. And you can't rush right into it and say everybody is now choice because then you really as I said earlier, you're not offering anything. If you do create schools. You have to give them autonomy. If you don't give them autonomy. Then nothing happened because it's too many people live threatening and so on. So that's an important piece. You've got to make the other schools feel that they're not losing something but they're gaining something and sometimes it has to be on a very high level like you buy them off with some piece of material or something. You know, that that level of principle says we have nothing to say. What do you want? I want new races through got him. Usually want something else video some setup like that. But what I'm trying to say is it doesn't do any good to get an opposition feeling that they're being cheated because something else is being created. So you got to begin to balance that kind of situation. I told you about it. You have to protect them. Now it doesn't hurt by the way it helps a lot. If you have good reading schools. You don't knock that. You have a good reading scores. You could do almost anything in New York City. I hope that's not the case here, but it's very important. No matter how you feel about testing and so on that you are able to compete at that of assessment level. You can't say testing is not for our kids take my word for it. Our kids learning a great gift. You gotta be willing to take that. And if you do well at that it's another form of protection. Now parental support I mentioned earlier to you. You need parents. Let me just close with the Ben Franklin story. So, you know, we're talking about high schools now, New York City are different out here. You're much better. What look, you know. What's interesting about me being here. You're way ahead of New York City. So my question is why am I here? I'm here because I want to ask him to come here and tell you what we're doing that. But in New York City high schools are centralized. and New York City high schools except for 6/8 I'll be generous 12 are very mediocre. too poor And it became clear to us that here we had these great kids coming out of our junior high schools. We had no control over what high school they went to. And we had a high school in our neighborhood called Benjamin Franklin. lovely building here the statistics on Benjamin Franklin. I've sent him a thousand times. I still don't believe them. Seven percent of the entering freshmen graduate. That means 93% didn't graduate. We sent none of our kids to that high school. It is in our neighborhood. Right on the East River Drive facing the water and we just sent no one and eventually we said to the central board is a business thing because they're business people who understand that failing businesses will always accept the partner. Here the central board had which we all can agree was the SuperDuper failing business. Forty-four percent attendance in the morning. No one had the courage to take it in the afternoon, but there was a compromise set up in a way the people there like them. smaller classes So we said we want you know, we go into partnership. We really mean you pay for it. We'll run it. That's how it works in New York City. We want to set up a school happened to be Center for Math Science and computers so that we could prepare kids for technological Society. And we began earlier. I meant to by the way, I meant to say when I was talking about. I did say it's like bringing coals to Newcastle when I talk about me being nice to people is how you treat them. Seems to me the Minneapolis Foundation treats everybody. Very nice. Look how nicely you are treat. I know how nicely I'm treated room is beautiful. I don't know water it just and I noticed and John Barrow pointed out too because we're very provincial in New York. He said What do you think of Minnesota nice? I don't know what he was talking about. I really didn't know. And I saw think about it for the moment. I got off at the airport. I've only met people treat me very nicely. So if that's how you schools run you're gonna be in good shape because the key piece getting back to Benjamin Franklin. And I mentioned earlier. I'm not against planning. I think this was a great conference and you planned it for a year but in New York City they plan a school for three years that fails in six months. So I just like a little balance that we planned that Manhattan Center we closed Ben Franklin and it's so interesting you talk about blockers. When we went to close Ben Franklin, they were serious Educators who got up Sirius educate. How could you destroy the tradition of Benjamin Franklin and I asked them which tradition the 7% or the 44 percent attendance rate. I don't know which one it was the logo for the handbook and Benjamin Franklin with two crossed sneakers because that's cool won the State basketball championship the year we close it. Another message is sent out. Anyway, we went into this partnership and we created this school and we brought in River East which is an elementary. We brought an Isaac Newton, which was a junior high alternative. It's another thing you can do. They keep telling me you can't do that. You can't have junior high school kids in elementary school. You can't do it. So we've been doing it for 13 years. I said you ever do it the know. So how do you know you can do we know we can do it? So we went one step further. We have elementary junior high and High School in one building and we can do it because that's the world kids living and kids treat other kids nicely that way and they were peers and their images that are developed it just a nice place to be anyway Four years later. I mean I could tell you how we recruited. It was unbelievable. We didn't know what we were doing because I had never really run a high school, but we knew one thing that whatever we would do would be better than what they were doing adventurous thing. We close it. We opened the three months later. We went around recruiting an old parts and District in the city and all we told them was you come to this school you go to college. the only thing we tell them We didn't even have the interviews in the school because it was the building was in such bad shape. We had it at Hunter College, which was up third part the Donna Shalala great lady. I don't know if you know that lady. She's now the president of the University of Wisconsin great lady. She was our third part in this situation. Four years later, we graduated our first High School class every kid graduated and every kid went to college and some of them the best colleges in the country. That was four years later. So the point I'm making is that meaningful change really does take place. It's not easy, but you can do it and John was kind of by one other common. friend of mine once told me you can keep talking. even when someone looks at their watch but when they start hitting the watch, you know, it's time to stop so I'll be happy to stop. I did not hit my watch. I was fascinated. I have the outtakes from sighs interview of a couple years ago and I look at them once or twice a week at home that one of the Privileges of my job is to go is to have a lot of time to tell a story but I promise you that that piece that you saw it could have been much longer and a lot of it could have been more of sign his insights. I'll turn over to you if you let me ask one question, you mentioned praise and the importance of Praise, but you also yesterday said it was very important to do your Dancing in the Dark. Yeah those conflict would you have but I know they don't conflict but obviously you never dance in the dark because you can pray someone while you're dancing in the dark. You just don't praise him to the whole world. What I'm saying is you have to give you do give recognition. You just single him out you say I like what he's doing in his school. They have conferences at school board meetings and so on. Well, you get the media to come in. You say well go visit his school. I think it does nice stuff you go and do a nice piece, but it's on his school. No one tends to see the whole picture. You know, we're trying to turn the world upside down. I thought you were also warning people about trying to get media credit too soon. Yeah. Well too soon what good is it too soon? You know, I'm really going look a good school takes three to five years. Don't fool yourself takes three to five years for school to really become very successful School. But I'm off of Praise. What do they say judicious praise is what the college tells us in the back. All right. Another way that that question is asked is other parents capable of making good choices that's one, you know in and that's that's another form of that question. And in our experience the answer is yes. I'm not talking about the state of New York and talking about district for and I said yesterday that parents can make those choices. It is not the mystery. We all think the parents know which are the best schools which are the school's right for their kids the kids know so we can do but we do make a we have a program for we don't just say go out and do it. I brought this along just because I figured someone asked a question. How do you articulate with parents every parent in the sixth grade gets this booklet and it is describes each of the school's what their Vision or philosophy is. And invites them to either go visit the school where we set up meetings like this where we bring the directors in and they do their pitch in terms of what the school is about. In the sixth grade early in the year. We trained sixth grade teachers on getting kids to make decisions. Now, we'd like to train kids to make decisions in kindergarten you can do it. Which picture should we put on this bulletin board is a decision that a Kindergarten kid can make so we do train teachers. We do train parents. We have a very interesting parent of project plan with leaders of the parents meet with their parents. There's a whole process of information and they make good choices. They can make those choices. That doesn't mean we have flexibility the times you make a wrong choice, but what's nice about it is you can make it you can correct that. John Paul Okay. Well, obviously the New York City's you have to understand where we would look we're in Manhattan. So we have I haven't mentioned to you what the west side of New York City's like but the west side is the middle class crazy about schools like told the group update don't ever go to a party on the West Side the most boring parties in the world. All they talk about is school and they don't have kids. So in our community what happened was the open Edge schools were very popular. We could have six more but we don't we no longer have that kind of space, but that would then of course the math and science schools. The performing arts schools, you know, we had a sport school that was doing exceptionally. Well got so good became New York prep. They change who the kids were originally we started with sports for kids who were not making it and now it's New York prep and they don't realize that their kids not making it. I hope that answers your question. So every kid does not get his first choice, right? I think is there are three you got three choices. I would say 90% of the kids get there one two or three and then what we do with the remaining ones we go right back to school and we're very honestly you got to take this kid. He may be a problem. Right he may be a problem. That's what we're here for you wanna know something. They'll do it when you tell it to him that way it's when you sneak a kid in on somebody you say this kid has tremendous potential and suddenly he destroys the school You've Lost Your credibility, but when you tell look this kid's got a lot of problems, but we need a school for him and you're going to have a time when you have a kid and you're going to come to me and say please take the they say sometimes about a teacher take this kid out of here and they'll be a place for that kid, so you can do it that way. Yes, Jeff. Yes. Well, there is look you can't have a Manhattan East for an Isaac Newton whose concept is math and science. And the kid is not interested in math or science. So in that way I would say in three of the school's you do get kids in more academically oriented. I mean, it would be dishonest to say it's not so but at the high school which is math and science we go down to kids who are a year or two years below but we can't go down to a kid who can read it all and say we'll make you a surgeon. Not at my age. Okay, if I hear you correctly, we do take kids in from outside of our district. See I judge that is a form of valuation people will go to Quality schools and New York City. There's a real economic reason for that at eight thousand dollars a year for private schools. I've told parents if you get a kid into one of our alternative schools and just buying a CD by the time he's ready to go to college to be wealthy than you are. So we do bring in kids come out of District. We do have five and this year Center magnet schools for integration because we have we got ourselves a magnet Grant always hustling you have to hustle in this business. It's and but it doesn't create problems. What gangs there are gangs but it's not part of you know, kids and gangs were also selected schools. And the general attitude is it's my school. So we don't mess around. See there's very little drugs in our schools. This drugs all over the community. But there's a certain respect that it's our place. So it did not increase those problems. I think it decrease the problems because we really extended on the ship those kids and gangs are part of our school. You know Everyone likes to say The Gangs come from somewhere else. They're part of our schools. So I hope I answered your question. I don't know. well No, because they have to on the junior high level. There's no such thing as a Zone School. So they have to go to one of these schools. There's no such thing as but two of them. Are the old Junior High kid can select to go to his own the neighborhood. You know, I'm not against selecting going to your neighborhood school, but you don't have to go to your neighborhood School. But all the kids go to schools. They there's no kid. We say you can't go to these schools. Yeah. Okay. Let me tell you something. We haven't had a school that had a vision or a mission that failed. That's the truth. The only ones be close with the ones that didn't have that they were the existing ones and I don't want to get carried away that we close to places. So it's not like, you know, we're not going off schools all the time. The other point is it is interesting to see to what can happen with teachers who are rejuvenated. See the teachers look most teachers want to be good teachers. So we give them an opportunity give you one first example, one of the schools we close the chapter chair person who were fighting with because he didn't want to close that school. I sat down with them life said, what would you want to do in the best of all possible Worlds the question I asked well what you're doing. He says chess I'm a great chess teacher. I moved into another school created a chess club this may he took 15 kids to the Soviet Union. In a year, he created a Chess Championship team. Now we'll all the things we've done for kids. I can assure you that trip to the Soviet Union was more important than all the things we've taught and there was a teacher who was burned out. He's no longer burn down people fight change. If you help him make the change they become better people in that process. So look, I believe in teachers. We made all our people with teachers become directors, but they were all teachers. How the CSA your supervisor Association 14 that is another discussion, but that's not for today. Yeah woman. Okay, first of all, they all have to choose. In the booklet, there's an application has to be sign if comes back not signed with kids. We call the parent and we say listening. Sometimes there's sign and it was the wrong choice this they come and say look I made a mistake. But what do you think the kids should be everyone is placed on the junior high level by the way, the elementary level we have five alternative alternative schools, but our elementary schools in very good shape. I haven't even mentioned that some of our regular schools are much better than the alternative schools. Because they had an opportunity smaller schools. They have visions. It's not only alternative people have visions regular principals have visions. They just weren't given the opportunity to exercise them. I'm sorry your view you haven't said anything about power-sharing powered giving power taking how does it work if you give these people power. Okay. Yes, we give them we never call it power power scares everybody. That's why you always use ownership. I tell you that no one's afraid of ownership. Everyone's afraid of power lets, you know, everyone's afraid of empowerment. No one's afraid of ownership. I told that to John goodlatte. He agreed with me, then he kept using impoundment. But that's what I'm we give power but there's enough power out there. And it seems to grow somewhat. So a lot of people are involved in the decision-making only improves it Joe. Let me go. I don't think you understand. I don't think there's a school system or a school that can't be improved. It's all relative New York City is a very provincial place. Contrary to what New York is tell you. Each district has no interaction with the next District. It's like separate systems now. There has been a spread of alternative school in other districts and some little Choice things. It's a very provincial place and it's easy to change. Look I go to places like London is easy to change a place in London than it is to change a place in New York City. On the other hand, I'm not looking to change them. I think I want to make a point here. I'm not positive that this is the only way to do it. I never felt that way each place has got to come up with what they think is right. They know that Community better than I do. They know what the needs are what I'm saying is we got to open it up for the people who are involved who care about what's happening to kids to start doing things. I could come back here five years from now and say I am pushing the neighborhood school. I think it's a marvelous idea because in a place where that will work. It's a marvelous idea. I'm telling you what I think works the district for but I would like to see happen another place but I really want to see happening is the opening up of opportunities because I believe that in every city and every school district. There are teachers and administrators who can do this who can make a school district work. It's not special little people Everyone likes to say that you know, you got special people that know got to create the environment where they begin to Blossom someone that's what I'm saying. So I really mean it when I say I can't change the world and I'm not trying to Was it go ahead? Okay. Well one is the provincialism of that system to is you have a lot of people who are satisfied with what's going on. You see because as long as there are people doing poor in than they are they were right the see the district to do the least amount of change in New York City other ones whose reading scores are high. They're the same. I happen to be one of them now going back to that place tomorrow. We'll see what happens. I'm have to deal differently in that situation, but the good part of District. That's not that way but there are but people are always blocking change. There are always people say we can do it. All right. I'm trying to answer your question. We haven't discussed everyone seems to agree that the school is the important place of change good lad has enunciated that clearly and whenever I go through people think and I agree with it the school side as well as change. So New York City while we're saying that the region action plan coming from Albany. You have to understand my view. I think a district office is about as far as you can get from a school. And sometimes I question that to really make an important impact. I think Albany which is very far has very little that it can do but the state legislature passed the region action plan which in effect in effect says and gives everyone a reason not to change because you know what I hear now we can't do that. The region action plan won't let us do it. Now in all those schools where we do not have a shot. The shop teachers got together. They're the they had the most time I guess. They have the strongest Lobby. They went up to Albany and they got put into the region action plan. You have to have five 45 minute periods of shot. But they don't call it chop its technology but you can't include computers and technology. So to them technology is planning a piece of wood. Now that's a block. So if I come to your school and say listen, what should what theme do you want to have you say? Listen? I got to get in the five periods of shop. Well, I have to file it's very tough when the head of the school says the region action plan says I can't do that. Now. I have to go public and say you can do it. That's a that's a block. There are always blockers because there are always people who have their own self, you know the self interest whatever that group is, but you can get past them. It's not easy. I keep telling you it's not easy. Don't tell anyone. It's easy. I say it's worth doing. So I can't tell you more than a lot of blockers gentleman. Okay on the parents. We created a project plan in our district where we have educated. 50 or 60 of the parent leaders in that District how to create problems for us. That's the truth and I told that to the principal now first, it started like nothing but getting together but we've had Retreats where we said. This is what makes a good school. Go back and ask your school. How did doing? We'll take a look at it. Now that's scary to people but we also say if you get those parents on your side. You have support that no one will touch you. So you give something but when you get it look look You're Not Innocent. See I'm sure and Minnesota and places. There are certain schools have tremendous parents Association that are influential that come out and scream and Carry On and the supervisors administrators the district say, hey, let's not mess with those people. So that's what we've done and weary land we bought in not only ourselves but outside Consultants, we really teach What makes a good school how should you communicate with a teacher? How do you communicate with the principal? How do you know it's always in a very positive light. So right now the project plan if you want another side if you were running against whatever the president ministration is, you would say we co-opted those parents. And away we did because they become very supportive of the schools. But the prices we got him involved in the schools. We don't deny it every time when a parent gets up and says, you know, what a school this is what's going on. We don't have this. We don't say no no campy. We respond to it. So we do involve parents. Now as far as corporations at the high school. We were able to set up a very fine Consortium of IBM. They did all kinds of things for us, but the key there and be careful here you never ask corporate people for money. Asking for involvement the money flows after the involved. Being wealthy myself. I know I don't like when people ask me for money. You understand what I'm saying to you. So it's that you say look I don't they're so used to people asking for money. So I don't want them and I want you come here. What do you do? Well, I'm the head I do come here and do some of that in the school. They get involved in that school and suddenly they start bringing in resources. Like you never dreamed existed. That's the way we built that Consortium and they're very productive. I know there are lots more questions we have at this moment run out of time and it's time for small group. Thanks very much. So