Well, how are you all doing today? All right. Got me busy. I'm running all over the place and nice because it's one of my favorite towns the great Advantage you have peer over San Diego where I'm from is your weather, you know, I mean, what means that your growth will be nice cuz it's a great place to live, but they never kill you like they're doing in San Diego. One of my favorite stories is about the guy in San Diego's boss came in to him and said, I got a great opportunity for you and a great job in Minneapolis, Minnesota. He said you got to be kidding me. He said why would I want to go to Minneapolis or Saint Paul? He said it's a great opportunity besides that's one of the great cities to live in in the world. He said you got to be kidding me. I got nothing in Minneapolis, but hockey players and prostitutes. He said you wait one minute. He said my wife is from Minneapolis, Minnesota. He said what position does he play? So but it's always nice. Nice to be here as I look at the topic about how do American managers rate I have to think of an interesting experience recently. Some people approached me and asked me if I'd be interested in running for Senator in California seems like the Republicans having a hard time getting a candidate and they said yeah, you're great on your feet and a lot of the stuff that you talked about really applies. And so I said no, I don't think that's really my my style. But they so what would you say if you did well, I use a lot of things we could say that needs to be done in this country from a behavioral standpoint. See I'm a behavioral scientist when I was in in graduate school. I was running rats with all the psychologists, you know, when I was getting this crap all over my hands and I was wondering what I was doing with his lousy rats and I read an article that really turned my whole career around it was an article written by Elton Mayo. Remember Mayo is considered the father of human relations movement. And then what male said in this article called the seamy side of progress is that we are so Advanced technologically. He said there's so many things we can do is 1942. Imagine what he would say in 86. He said this oughta be the beginning of the golden age and he said not only is it not the beginning of the golden age. You said we're in the middle of a major world war. He said not only fighting around the world. He said we're fighting in home. So I'm worried about divorce is 1942. Imagine what he would say again in 86. I don't know how you're doing here. But marriage isn't doing real well in California my son Scott couple years ago when he was a senior in high school in his homeroom is basic bedroom. He had 30 kids in his class and only four of the kids besides himself or still living with her same two parents. I saw a study that came out recently. I don't know if you sort of kind of made me laugh and cry but it is study said that second marriage is in this country are now breaking up at a faster rate than first and the reason I laughed as it was always your the con job was it was always a selection problem. If you only had a second shot of the ball, you can make a real difference realities of you a jerk in your first relationship. You're probably a jerk and your second one to Unless you learn some about human interaction, but male raise the volume in question and John Nesbitt raised it in megatrends. And he said we are so advanced in our technical skills. But so lousy in our human skills. And why are we so ahead and technology and so behind and human Nesbitt talked about High-Tech high touch and its technology gets better people need people even more and it was interesting males hypothesis. It was it maybe it's a difference between a successful Sciences in the unsuccessful Sciences. He said the successful Sciences were physics chemistry biology botany to the reason are successful is that they teach two kinds of knowledge knowledge about which is factual and theoretical and knowledge of acquaintance which is how to use that fact and Theory to solve problems and he River take a chemistry or Physics course, you know the elections in the morning. What do they do with you in the afternoon? they put you in a lab where they force you to take what you would learned about in the morning and see if we get acquainted with an apply it he said now the unsuccessful science is recycled ecology sociology political science and economics, you know, where science and economics He said the reason they're so bad is it when they're taught and universities? They mainly teach knowledge about one fact and Theory after another fact and Theory after another fact and theory of very little attempt to apply to apply those to solve problems in a real day-to-day basis. So I decided to give up rats for managers. And see if I could take the BS out of the behavioral sciences and really kind of make it come alive because we know so much about people but for so long we have been applying at anything. And so I really decided that would have what I would do when I guess the one minute manager is kind of the best attempt because Spencer Johnson, I wrote it with was a children's book writer and my wife Marge ran into him at a cocktail party and she can carry them over to me and she said that's it. We need to write a children's book for big people and that's all the one minute manager is little kids book for big people cuz we found out that's the only thing that they want to read and understand. And so what I set out to do was to say what do we know about people and how can we use it in the real world? And you didn't say where does the American managers rate compared to other managers? Well, I think we're getting better. I think we're starting to worry about people bit more. We were so into technology and so into strategic planning and so into all kinds of things around. We are forgetting that the number one asset that we had was our people but you know, we still got a lot of things to learn and soda people around the country. But you know, if I got a chance to run for political office the whole theme of what I would run was what we need to do in this country is get back to human dignity. We got into reintroduce human dignity what we started on this country and it's part of the government is part of the whole union movement and all we have a great mentality of this country of giving people something for nothing. And the way to take somebody's human dignity away is the give him something for nothing. Because what it does is it this takes away. They're all opportunity. What we start need to start doing in this country is teaching people how to fish rather than give him a fish. I was looking at some of the big articles on the poor lately and who does everybody blame everything on nowadays? They blame it on the government. They blame it on you have your taking away our subsidy programs and you're doing this kind of thing people sitting around waiting for somebody to pick him up and tell him what to do and give him something see there's a form of motivation that Scott Myers got known for he call the Jelly Bean motivation Jelly Bean motivation is when you give somebody something for nothing they don't do anything, but you give it to him. And what's really interesting about Jellybeans motivation is when you give somebody something for nothing not only do they want more for nothing, but they want it now. And what happens is it when you give somebody something for nothing what you do is you not only destroy their self-esteem but you demotivate everybody else. Let me give you a classic example of Jelly Bean motivation and you see it in organizations all the time, but one company. I was going to work with before I got there somebody got to the president and said to him. What you ought to do is give all your employees a turkey for Christmas how to be a real motivator. And so the guy said well, I'll give him a turkey for Christmas. And so when I got there he had this turkey program gone and giving turkeys for Christmas is a classic Jelly Bean motivation because I said to him who gets the turkey she says everybody. Yeah. I said, you're right the good performers the poor performers the people come to work on time and people, let everybody gets a turkey as a result that has no motivational effect. See if you want to motivate people what they get has to be based on performance. Not just breathing. That's one of the problems with the Civil Service in the in this country people breathe another year. They get a hit. And if you expect to motivate people, you can't motivate them just for breathing they have to perform and see we have a saying in the one minute manager people who produce good results feel good about themselves where does self-esteem, comes from doing things and getting recognized for your accomplishment not by giving something for nothing? And that's what the turkey program is. I said don't want you put your turkey program in your friends benefit program because friends benefits you need Fringe benefit, but don't think it motivates people, you know around your college recruiting and say it our company. We have got good hospitalization good life insurance, and we give turkeys for Christmas. See because your friends benefit program does not motivate anybody. They will bitch if they don't have one. But once you give good friends benefits, you can expect performance from that because people doesn't make a difference. Everybody gets it. So is interesting in this turkey program the guy gave out turkeys the first year and he said I'm just going to do it this one year. And so I laughed I said, yeah, you'll do it for one year. What do you think? Everybody was talking about the next December? Where the hell is the turkey? Because once you give somebody something for nothing, you better not take it away from him cuz you had no reason to give it to him the first place and obvious. You got no reason to take it from him. Show man are all screaming like stuff pigs are unions going to March and always taking away the turkeys. So he's got to give the turkeys at the second year, but you know what he found out some of the people were bitching and moaning. So we checked it out. You know, what they were complaining about. Some people were getting bigger turkeys and others. Joy call the supplier and he said Could you send me turkeys all the same size? They said no, they don't come that way so I couldn't believe it the guy sent a memo out to everybody. It said the size of your turkey has nothing to do with your performance. So is next problem was to keep it quiet on when they're going to give out the turkeys because if people knew the turkeys are going out Thursday afternoon. Nobody works Thursday morning. They're all positioning trying to get the bigger turkeys. Now the next year everybody's complaining again this time. It wasn't oversized. It was some people said they didn't like turkey. Should I wanted a choice between a turkey or roast beef and a ham and some of the Jewish folks wanted it kosher. So we had to hire a full-time turkey administrator. Develops a questionnaire sent it out. You know, you want turkey roast beef you want a kosher non-kosher that's suppose you are not Kosher turkey and you go to pick it up in the turkeys. Don't look very good with the roast beef. Still. What do you think you want you want to roast beef when the turkey administrator says you can drive a roast beef for all the turkeys are what kind of organization is there and you're getting beaten over the head your give her something for nothing ever see a country that gets Bad Mouth More by their people than we do and we're running around giving him all kinds of things. Do you get Squad from giving people something for nothing? All I do is complain that you don't give him enough. Because you taking away their dignity now, they're just a leech on on you and they will expect you to do everything for him. You want to hear the ultimate of this turkey story. They noticed it smelled in the plant after Christmas. So they checked it out. You know, what they found a number of the people are taking a turkey's roast beef sand ham and don't put them in the garbage pail and keeping the nice Christmas Box it came in. Why do you think they're keeping the Christmas box so they can put tools and equipment in again get past the security guard there ripping off the plant. $40 Ranch is worth a lot more this lousy turkey. and see when you give people something for nothing then I don't even want more from nothing, but they'll rip you off to Because once people lose their dignity lose it all the way. I'm working on a book right now. It's one of most fun projects I ever did I'm working a book with Norman Vincent Peale. He's 88 years old. What a loving caring guy the power of positive thinking we're writing a book called The Power of ethical management. You don't have to cheat to win one of the things that we're finding out as we look in there as you know, why people cheat and steal things from organizations is because the way they're treated and because of the kind of attitude towards motivation and all these kind of things that I'm talk about people think you owe it to him to give me this for nothing how you owe me more Seeing what we've done in this society that we really got to get off of his we've created rescuing as a National Institution. And a rescue is when you do something for somebody they can do for themselves. And in the process, you tell him that they're not. Okay. That's the message the minute you jump in the rescue somebody I'm all for helping people get on their feet. But then what you got to do is help stay on their feet and help me get the skills that they need to stay on their feet rescuing is you do something for somebody you take away their dignity because you say to them you're not okay, I got to do it. We have institutionalize that in this country. Let me give you a classic example of how we've institutional at one of the worst organizations that we go to stomp out in America is the Little League. I don't I don't want a lot of phrase around that but I'm about to start a little league baseball team about hockey soccer and all its a disease in this country absolute disease and let me tell you why it's a disease. Then I'm all for sports. I was you know love sports and when I was a kid and a lot of you here were kids if you want to play baseball you had three problems. What were they problems? What was the first problem? Yeah, Define equipment. Okay, you had to find some equipment when I tell you the one thing then they guarantee you can play when your kid is if you had a bat because you don't have a lot of those bats and if you broke a bat, did you run home to your parents to get another bat know? What do we do with them? We put nails and we put tape around like remember so many times running about on first base my hands going like this, you know, cuz the baddest from the vibration of the broken back. I didn't know what baseball was white until I was nine. That was when TV came all the balls I ever say we're all black there were covered with tape and some some balls. You couldn't tell whether it was originally a softball or was just a Hardball with a lot of tape around it. I know some of them if you could hit the ball just a short stuff. That was a long head cuz they were so heavy and I can never remember as a kid playing baseball that when I came in out of the field that I didn't throw my glove to somebody coming out on the other team why cuz everybody didn't have a glove nowadays kids got three or four gloves. Because we would share the equipment. The only people are guaranteed a glove when I play was the pitcher in The Catcher in the first basement of a left-hander was up in a third baseman. If a right-hander was up the rest of the people are up for grabs and so once we got the equipment, what was our next problem? Where to find a place to play and so if you lived out in the country, you got some farmer give you a piece of their field declare off all the Rocks except for you're going to use for bass. If you lived in the city and find some Street where there wasn't a lot of traffic and you knew people so people Park their cars around so you can have the bases in the in the street and so I lived outside New York City and then those days it was Farm Landon and old man Secord gave us a piece of the field to use and we raked everything and all so now we had the field and equipment to find people to play. No you had to depend on what was in the neighborhood. So we had kids playing baseball with us a ran all the way from seven or eight years old up to 18. You got 12 year old kids in America today or never met a 13 year old. They're not in their category. We got so many people age groups and all we use tap Heroes. Then we have sez kids older kids. Nobody has Gyros any more than ever gets in a wreck with him anymore because everything so damn organized by age group and I had a lot of Heroes and boy when I was eight years old and I said can get out in right field man. I didn't complain at all that I put me live right field and I bad at 9th and 111th in a right-hander k I left and it came up they put me in left field. You think I ran home and told my parents. I weren't playing me enough. I was glad to be there. I knew that if I played enough when I got older I Venture look at work my way into the infield or do some other kind of thing and so we got kids to play. And they were of all ages once we got together. We started knock the ball around we start thinking we're pretty good. You started think we're pretty good and then and then somebody said, you know, Johnny Bunky's got a team over his neighborhood. Oh, I don't know Punk Play It's always somebody sees monkey in schools a bunk. Why don't you come on over our field on Saturday and we'll play and so we play them and beat them and somebody tell you know, Keith dollars got a group over his neighbor. Oh, I didn't know dollar at a group. Hey, somebody go see the case will come over to your place on Saturday. Let's play a game with a 6 Team league when I was a kid. We had the Burien bombers the Aberfoyle asses to Secord sissies and all depending on the neighborhood where you were know who did all the planning. The kids who did all the organizing the kids who did all the motivating the kids who did all the control in the kid who does it all today? The parents all the kids today got to do is get dressed. A man should I get dressed using his damn uniforms these kids wear? Unbelievable and it's in every sport last year. I was up in Canada in the winter time working with the president and after lunch is at 10. How about taking a ride with me? I got to take pick my kid up and take him to the little league hockey. We got to his house and he tooted the horn the door open and out came this kid. I have never seen so much equipment in my life. He was obviously the goalie and I said, how old is he? You couldn't tell He said he's seven. Halfway down the walk the kid tripped and fell. And if we hadn't gotten out of the car and help the kitty would have died. There was no way I could have gotten up. We played hockey when I was a kid, but what was your first job you had to do to play hockey at the clean off the ice and you spent all afternoon cleaning up and then we'll get too dark to play that night it snow until the next day to be out there having to clean it off again. It's not right. We had a couple of stones for goalie, you know, and if you played goalie when I was a kid, if you even give a hint that you were wearing a jockstrap they call you a chicken. The kids today got pads and cups and armor and all kinds of stuff. Now once the kids get dressed we driving to the game we want the little bastards are going to exercise. And once I get there, if you see any stadiums that they have I don't know if you got them are the way out in California and tell me it's unbelievable refreshment stands. I mean for mother's back there sweating serving ideas. He wouldn't want these little kids starve during the game, you know, and you got out and center field, you know, getting heat prostration some kid turn over the score, you know, the way we kept scores the kid in Market in the ground your opponent so you didn't get that and it rub it out with her foot got to put it back in and they got mothers in the stands with his Major League score books just like the twins used and the kids are seven-years-old. Somebody hit the third base and Rosa get out in the mother saying, oh my God is all that 6 to 3 and they keep statistics on this thing. Like it's a major damn thing and at the end of the game when you lose you can't even beat the hell out of the opponent. You got to go to Baskin-Robbins or Haagen-Dazs or some other place ever get the ice cream on Saturday afternoon every I'm getting a world looking like Reggie Jackson and Pedro. That's What I Call rescuing I mean we are rescuing at every level of our lives in this country Do white people say, where's the leadership come it's not going to come when you do that. We create a new Concept in this country called boredom it when I was a virus set of my mother when I was a kid. I'm bored. You don't want to try that for a little boredom. Seeing what we need to do is we got to get people on their feet. We got to let people make their own decisions and what's wrong with the old way. We used to choose up sides or throw up the bat and do it like this and then let the people do the thing. You should see some of these little league thinks they have drafting meetings unbelievable smokes real rooms with guys with clipboards arguing whose choice. Is it in this kind of thing? I mean amazing, What we've done is we've over organized we've over rescued, you know parents are to put meters in their car racing kids from one organized activity to another people even have a chance to be a kid anymore and make mistakes and then if they make mistakes where they do, I wouldn't want to be a teacher in America today in the old days that if you got in trouble all they say is bring a note from home and what would they know that your parents to do? They punish the hell out of you. Now, you said you were a kid bring a note from home in the parents return with the lawyer. How do you think we get people like John McEnroe? When people like that. All right. I said Sam bologna. I mean I was so thrilled at Wimbledon said I'm sorry, you can't be a member and his father rather say John maybe they could be some learning in here said, you know, let's get a lawyer and Sue Wimbledon. I mean that's the kind of stuff they talk about rescuing. I'm getting optimistic though because we're getting a moving to this country now called tough. Love. Groups of parents banding together to say what we got to do is get love our kids but we got to get tough and what we got to do with the people in this country as we got to love them but we got to get tough. We got to stop picking people up and paying the tabs for doing nothing. We got to get the lawyers in this country to get off our backs. You can't even take a person was getting unemployment check in a lot of States now and have him doing some volunteer work for the community because the lawyers say you're taking their rights. What do you mean you're taking you're right you're taking their dignity. Why don't we take on the law business and get them off this rescuing? What we got to do is recognize. We got the best damn country in the world. We got the great potential people. But if we continue to Cripple our people with our governmental policies of rescuing and are organized institutions of rescuing and not make people stand up because good performers feel good about themselves when we got to do in our organizations is create opportunities for people to perform. And based our reward systems based on performance and watch what happens with the thing. I was amazed when I went over to Singapore number of years ago, and I know they have up and down times but you remember back in the sixties Singapore was ass in place of the world all the great drug traffic went through there until I got that prime minister took over he decided he would manage by consequences. See that's what I'm really talking about. Is that when you perform what happens after you perform is the key thing. And what are the results from and if you don't perform you still get the same goodies that anybody that does perform get that's where motivation that's where thing and he turned around and Country really in many ways just by managing consequence. Maybe it's a little too severe but he said it I don't want drug traffic in this country anymore. We just can't have that. If you get dealt in drugs, you will be hung in public. We're over there. Somebody got hung. It's amazing how little drug traffic there is in Singapore. We're so afraid of hurting people and all this kind of thing. You got to be kidding me. I can't imagine they let people like Manson or anybody can be considered for parole. I mean what we got to do is the consequences got a match things. I mean it is less in this country to go and blow somebody's brains out. You got a less chance of getting convicted and kept in jail then if you're going to steal from the newsstand out here. With a woman in San Diego shot her husband and two kids. They declared her insane and this year the doctor said she's saying now and they let her out. Can you imagine that some of her neighbors were a little upset? Tree and consequence management. So what he didn't Singapore says I don't want littering in our streets. We got litter signs all over this country and people are throwing things out of the window seeing if they can hit the sign. In Singapore, if you litter it's $500 fine and they have plain-clothes went around collecting the fines. I was in a taxi cab with a guy who smoked a cigar and he opened the window and threw a cigar out in the taxi cab drive drivers Screech to a halt and ran out and get the got the cigar but he came back and he said that $500 fine would have been mine. You can eat your meals off the street in Singapore. He said I don't want people to be driving into work all by themselves the $10 fine. If you drive in all by yourself, this people around collecting. It's amazing. How carpooling is bloomed in Singapore. Say we talked about a lot of things that we do, but we don't have the guts to manage consequences. And all motivation getting a performance you want depends on what you do after people do something. And I think that the real opportunity in this country for leadership is for us to start to realize some of the things around human motivation see because motivation is a very simple thing organizations are institutions who have goals to be accomplished people are individuals with needs to be satisfied. How do you get a productive satisfying organization? You create deals with people and what are the deals? If you do this for me, then I will do this for you. It's that simple but so often we since we have situations where you didn't do anything for me, but I'll take care of you anyway. That's ridiculous. But suppose your kid to television freak now you got a motivator. So you make a nice deal with your kid. You say look if you clean your room before you go to school, then you can watch school after you get home is not a nice pleasant deal. You make it very positive deals. It doesn't have to be punishment oriented cuz you don't want to make negative deals cuz it squishes your face up in your already know if you don't do this, then you can't do that. This is very pleasant. If you do this for me, cuz I have an organization we have things to accomplish with families are organs that I'll do this for you. No, of course the first day the kid won't clean the room why cuz you never followed up on anything. Your parents are just as bad. I don't manage consequences you are so the kid and I want to get comes home and you pull the TV the kid will go into psychological warfare mean they can't believe it is a most important TV show the last 10 years. Alice's TV is broken. I promise you, they will go all you have to do is stay calm and say look you didn't keep the deal. The deal was if you clean your room up before you go to school you get to watch TV after school. It's amazing. If you hang tough for 3 Days the kid will suddenly learn a very interesting relationship. If they clean their room then they get to watch TV. And what are we doing? A lot of her homes to give goats? So you want the car so you'll know more money you need. And what we don't do is we don't manage consequence and then we said how come we don't get any respect you don't get respect when you don't manage consequences because that's where the real thing is. And I think that's where the leadership opportunity is in this world. Now that this country has discovered the importance of people and the the tremendous motivation and productivity we can do it's unbelievable. Now the kind of things I'm talking about. You think they work they work so much that we offer companies money-back guarantees. If you let us work with you and implement the one minute manager system in on Wallace I'm talking about is one minute management career goals and managing consequences praising and reprimands and all his systematic way with your people for a year. If we don't return to your bottom line two to three to four times you make that you pay us we make up two different. So it's a money back guarantee. People say, how do you get so cocky? It's really easy. Nobody ever follows up anyting. Children problem with most companies in this country is you spend all your time looking for the next new management concept and you never follow up what you just touch your people. How many diets does it take to lose weight? Only one you stick to how many exercise programs does it take to make a difference in your heart and your physical. I only one you stick to how many Management Programs does it take to make a difference in the productivity is that has only one you stick to we just finished the project your project for Transco big Energy company in Houston with $150,000 contract that we had with them in the president's own figures. We save them 1.6 million dollars and its prediction is in the program which we are now have passed along and train their internal people. They will say between 6 and 8 million dollars you next year. And we're doing this all the time. It's finished another project for Canadian Pacific Division. Where were the retail operation the sales in that company, we're down 10% and we took a region increase sales 30% in the thing why we set up real clear goals. And what are we do we manage consequences. So people know that good performers get what the goodies. And people that don't before what happens. They don't get the goodies. See now. I'm talking about a major change. We have to make as we look at Civil Service as we look at unions as we look at the other things that have tied our hands and so we got a real challenge. I'm just going to sit in the dream out there for you to take a look at and see where we can head because that's where I think the future is and if and if you can do it, it's exciting. It's fun. It's great to be an organization where people are excited about what they do because you know, what performance makes a difference So any questions or any thoughts or where are timeout or what? Where are we bill? Well, I think the tremendous gain the American the question was what have been the gains of American management. I think the tremendous gain. Is it of a new awareness about the real importance of people and I think the awareness that the answers are among ourselves rather than always trying to listen to the Japanese or what somebody else had to say. She never in the history of America have management books ever been best sellers and now people really want to read about these things. And so I think there's a tremendous awareness. I tell people in my field were on the beach. Now, what we got to do is not Retreat back into the water because I think there's a tremendous Readiness and I wouldn't even say the kind of things. I've been saying the day if I didn't know that the American public is really ready to hear these kinds of things because I think we really turned the corner into thinking that it's only technology and knew this Calories in new research that's going to make a difference in the productivity and the growth of our companies and sure those are help but I think that this tremendous optimism in this I go around the country people are asking us to help and years ago. They wouldn't even ask is I mean, I talked about some projects we're doing years ago management education was mainly looked at as a fringe benefit was a nice little thrill that you could give people and but it didn't really mean anything and when budgets got cut what was the first thing to go is the training budget and one of the things we was fabulous around the Transco project is they'll are they lost 90 million dollars in a in a transaction as last year and so they had to really cut back a lot of things in the present is that one thing we're not going to cut back is this program at Blanchard's doing cuz it's returning to our bottom line and for people to talk about managing people returning your bottom line, and that's an exciting New Wave. So I'm really optimistic about about that. any other I wonder if you see any significant differences and approaching the private sector vs. The public and if so, if you would address it to the public sector dealing with a private sector, no doubt is Maury is easier because they can make decisions a lot easier when I work with government groups. I spend the first hour crying with him. We do a game called ain't it awful and everybody ain't it? Awful? Nobody up there understands or appreciates ain't it? Awful, you know the Civil Service and on and off we got no control over money and all that kind of thing. And once we have the catharsis, then we can start talking about some things that they can do see one of the things that a lot of people in government work have to overcome. Is there feeling of helplessness which means the system is got me and I can't do anything and I have never been in a situation where an individual manager who wants to make a difference can't make a difference regardless of what's happening in in the organization and Because you can't control money cuz in government money is Jellybean because you get it for breathing but you can control other things like praising made it would need about phrasing is it you decide when you're going to give me and give him a lot you can give him a little and what kind is it do is based on performance. How about opportunities to do interesting work managers can control that? Who do you give the interesting jobs through the people that perform what about other kinds of opportunities time with you opportunities for training is all kinds of other things that that you can do, but I find unless we do the catharsis they can hear it see is an interesting concept that I learned from a failed and Warner Earhart developed the concept called s and the concept by learn from one or isn't life what you resist persists. What that really means is if people have all kinds of feelings about what's happening to them. If you don't give him a chance to talk about it, then what happens to all those feelings, they just stay with them and so they can't hear anything new because they're so into all that and I are but it doesn't apply doesn't understand the corollary to what you resist persists is if you will deal with what's bothering you in the very process of dealing with it'll go away you ever said yourself. I'm glad I got that off my back what that really means. It's something was bothering you and relational prison. You finally got off your back now you can deal with them and after the catharsis that I have with government groups, I work with then it's amazing the creativity and the kind of things that come out but until I let them do that. They would be good starting all day to themselves and not be able to see because they would think I didn't understand and I want to tell you I understand I have I have empathy for those people who were working and trying to motivate people in classic civil service operations where there are restraints on what you can do to motivate people the same way in classic Union operations where a performance has nothing to do with what you get paid or other kinds of things, but I want you to know there are things you can control and so let us do our crying and then say today is the beginning of the rest of our lives. What can you do? My father was an admiral in the Navy and sped number of Duty's down and Washington, you know Under The Works in the Pentagon. He's in my God working in the Pentagon, you know, it was like a couple of elephants making love there was a lot of grunting and groaning at a high level, but nothing happened for years, but And so but I never saw a group that he was running that wasn't absolutely turned on wasn't motivated wasn't excited because he didn't pay attention to all the craziness and that's really was coming on. He dealt with people as people and dealt with what needed to be accomplished and how this relationship between their needs and the organizational goals could be be mad and then I can see it happen. Money holders of public office in the country have built careers by doing things for groups of people. Do you think that groups of people would respond to a candidate who would articulate tough love? I don't know. I'll be really interesting. I have a feeling that they might you know, because the people there know when I talk about what they're what they're talking about cuz I never met anybody who really felt good who kept on having their hand out first things my wife's father was a grandfather was given a mining town in Pennsylvania has an example know for a bad debt back in the late thirties and Roosevelt came out with the law that says it was so funny so far you could go down for coal and their company was a deep vein Coal Company so they closed the mine and I'm telling you for generations of people sat around waiting for the mine to reopen while the whole town was on relief. And I'm telling you it was a unbelievable thing of how that thing can get transferred and I don't know where they back it. But I think people out there know what the truth is. And if you say that what we're going to do is we're not leaving you in the Lurch. What we're going to do is try to figure ways to help you get on your feet. Say I think that's been a major problem with our foreign policy. Take Latin America. What have we done to help people get on their feet besides throw money in and just watch him, you know, throw it around and wasted and all that kind of thing. What are we doing to help people get on their feet know. I was asked to go to UNESCO a number of years ago and do some training over there and I found out this hardly one UNESCO educational programming on the world that every last past when the funding stops. And see to me the most important thing about management is not what happens when you're there. It's what happens when you're not there. She isn't easy to get people to do what you want. When you're there sure me as a parent isn't it easy to get your kids to do what you want when you're there. Maybe I can even get my kids to do thing. I mean, my kids are teenagers when I drive with them. They buckle their safety belts up. They drive within the speed limit. They look like great drivers. When are they going to do most of their driving when I'm there or when I'm not there when I'm not there seeing so my pitch would be we're not deserting you. I'm not into that you don't try to say swim get on your feet because some people don't even know how to walk yet. Say good before Matt's is a journey. Not a destination. What we got to do is teach people how to manage the journey and how do we get human dignity back by helping people get on their feet and figure ways to do things. I had a chance to talk in Rockford, Illinois a year or so ago and I had every corporation president and the superintendent of schools in the mayor of the town and all there and I said what a fabulous opportunity you all have fun employee was 22% there. I said you all know that the factories aren't coming back to menu know, what are you going to do and see I think they're wonderful challenge we have in this country is to get industry education and government together to do problem solving mean the capability of this country is incredible. If we say put responsibility where it is, I think Peter you were off to the nun believable job with Olympic saying, hey, let's let free enterprise list show what we can do rather than government everybody else picking up the tab and then everybody complaining you spent too much. All that kind of think those are the examples of the kind of things that we can do which is get people on their feet in there. And whether people would want to hear that. I don't know. Well, you know, my whole philosophy of life is when in doubt confront where else when all else fails try honesty, And and sometimes it works and I'm not sure that people in the long run don't want to hear it. And what are the delightful things working with Norman Vincent Peale is that we're having a ball doing and we're going to call Sis spade a spade on a number of things and give some suggestions so we can do just in terms of what's Happening. Ethically in this in this country cuz you don't have to cheat to win. You don't have to rescue people to the people can do things for themselves. I think the capability of the human being is incredible particularly people in this country where we have the freedom is the greatest country in the world where could a clown like me was a college professor. You don't mind my own business, you know, and all of a sudden write a book and now on a consulting firm via free enterprise type person in all kinds of everything even get up here and tell you what I think without somebody throw me in jail. What a great spot. I think she's next. Would you come and please on the participative management movement? She said what I comment on the participative management movement participate of management movement is I think an interesting one but a problematic one because the minute you talk about we need to move towards participative management, you're starting so you suggest that this one best way to manage people say and the people run around and saying what are you thinking all this kind? What's interesting in our society people think there's only two way to manage people one is autocratic. Can you tell him what to do how to do it where to go or Democratic and it's participate of management the problem in our country as we tend to yell at each other from his extreme to the autocratic yell at the participating giving away the farm you're being too easy and all the participating. So you'll back you're stifling creativity. You know, what we do is we flip flop back and forth from one end of the Continuum to the other writing now because of what's happened before Miz wife. We're moving towards the autocratic end of the continuum. I mean right before Reagan got elected in 1980. I remember reading there was a kind of a pole that went out that said if you could vote for any former president knighted states, who would you vote for other people thought Jack Kennedy would win? Who do you think ran away with it? Harry Truman Truman almost 60% for our room was known for two statements. What are they the buck stops here. And if you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen. Does that sound like participative management? Hell no Harry. Truman was a little sawed-off autocrat the only participation to use what's the next answer your phone now? Why would we want a guy like Harry Truman what we had enough of the other Street me know when Jimmy Carter was young and cut down a cherry tree and his father came to him. He said Jimmy's you cut down a cherry tree said father. I cannot tell a lie. I might have her I might not have So people had enough of that. And so look in American schools. We had two decades of humanistic education warm fuzzy teachers wandering around hugging kids and everybody saying while the kids are feeling good now, but they can't read they can't do their man. Some of the worst test scores we've ever had in the history of the country. So what's happened American schools were throwing out that humanistic stuff back on the autocrat again, who's back in the itty bitty teachers used to tell the kids to shut up, you know getting their seats and drilling same way with shower and I talked about dr. Spock now, it's in the tough love. We have a whole concept called situational leadership, which says there is no one best leadership style. It all depends on the situation and participate of management is really good when you're dealing with people know what they're doing got good inputs and all but to go around and involve people and decision-making. They don't know anything that's pulling of ignorance and I think what we end up doing Is thinking participation participating? Hey, it's it's appropriate sometimes not as this room suddenly burst into flames be silly for me to say why don't you discuss around your table the best way to get out of here and if it's crooked have a spokesperson you can report back will try to reach group consensus and all the bills going to say there's the door everybody after him. So I think participation is tremendous and we're not doing enough of it, but it's got to be situational people first. Got it have some skills and some knowledge so that they can participate in a really intelligent way. I think it gets overdone essay best way of operating you. Maybe I'm asking you for a glimpse at your Nextbook. But where are we on ethics and honesty in business is getting better. Is it getting worse? So what prompted you to do the book questions like that? Well, I think the Su look at at the big news week report on morality any look at the various take people with suggested. It's getting worse, you know, Norman Vincent Peale such a beautiful guy says what an opportunity he said when you're really down there's no way to go up what a challenge say and I think that it gets more publicity now, but I'd love to do something with the newspapers in this country. I love to see if they could spend a little time catching people doing things, right. You're one of the things I like about u.s. Today is you don't have to lead all the bad news all the time because well things look like they're bad. There is tremendous stories of people making tough ethical decisions people who are poor finding money the blue off somebody's car out of an envelope come out of the bank and rather than running with it going back and taking it to the police station. If they don't get the kind of publicity. So while I think there are some signs of deterioration, my father said the worst scary book you ever read was the fall in the rise of the fall of the Roman Empire of seeing some of these things. So I think that everything in life is an opera threat. It's an opportunity or threat and I think there's some signs that we may be are down at the bottom on some of this ethical stuff in the wheeling and dealing and not thinking about think I think it's a fabulous Challenge and I think they were really up for it. So I thought that's what I think. I think the direction is up and let's go for it. What I'm all for is getting some of the positive stuff back, even though I might have come on negative it down on some things. I want to tell you that we got fabulous opportunity if we would just take what we know about you being and start using it because systemically were reinforcing non-performance and so many things we do and what I like to do is give people who perform an opportunity to bask in some glory and really feel it makes a difference a good Hard Day's Work Well nice to be with you.