Minneapolis Police Chief Tony Barbosa is with us today and then they continually controversy over allegations of police officers goofing off in one city Precinct. The story has replaced the one about the youth gangs in the headlines and you'll probably have an afternoon to ask about those questions and others as we continue during the noon hour today. She's welcome. Thanks for coming in. Thank you. Nice to be here about thank you. Can you clarify just exactly what the situation is with the status of the officers who have been accused of laziness have they in fact been reassigned or is that still in the process of being done anytime you ask if you ever tried to clarify anything with your tending him to do is it is to Office Cape Fear the question, but I will try and we are in the middle of a of a process that seeks to address the difficulties encountered in the admittedly the slowest come in and in the city the 2nd Precinct Country Club.Feel real sometimes inevitably attend to such places and you really you need to shake it off. We we've seen this we've seen some deficiencies. I've seen the need to make the shake of the Union has been rejecting. Now, we have a case that really imposes to act up the status of the case is that we are in the midst of assessing the whole question, which means that you're the precinct Commander evaluating his stewardship evaluating the stewardship of the supervisors assigned to that Precinct and then evaluate in the members of that command retaining those who have been proved to have been dedicated and performing in working hard and transferring those that drink could use a change of scene who are not worth this ohoto who have been disciplined all who in the normal course of events or do I go to a Vizio Precinct then begin to share some of the risks that their colleagues have been sharing.So that takes care of the priest in command of the supervisors in the office is that there was the question then watch commanders that we have out there priests a captain's very highly paid Executives who was supposed to be into dictating identifying an acting upon such your breakdowns who I've been a disappointment to me. So the question of their stewardship will come into play as well as the investigative staff know what is a long process and I assume it's going to be finished there somewhere between now and around December 10th or so will be a lot of obstacles. Did the council members will carry water for the union will get into it my own viewers that we're all lucky to be working. There are plenty of people out there would have been fired or these people really cannot be fired. If they cannot be promoted. They cannot be demoted it going to be higher than can. I be fired. They cannot have their salaries impinged upon they have so many protections that they are there really areTruly beyond the reach of supervision and whenever some wimbush timid administrator like me tries to reach out and do some minimal amount of supervision and why they holler and scream because there's simply not used to it. The reality is that in the bureaucracy. Everybody is floating in the tub of butter having a wonderful time. How long had the problems in the 2nd Precinct been apparent to you sharing the risk? Imagine two people who hired us police officers one goes to the 4th precinct is responding to endless series of calls. I had a lot of facing a lot of danger a lot of excitement a lot of risks in danger and the other one goes to the 2nd Precinct where it is not nearly as busy that has about 13% of the city's problems so much more relaxed atmosphere much more relaxed much more laid-back, you would cause more Bordeaux more opportunities to go for is it really fair to have one guy for twenty years running around like a Maniac or gal because we have plenty of women police and the other one is a sensor in in Comfort at a guy to have a fairly Country Club. You should admit I don't think so. It's right believe that requires us to begin to share the risks. What are these rotation is to get some of the people who have and you know, everybody listening will know this to be true and yet no one can prove. It was a natural. There is a natural attraction between the country club in the people who are attracted to it. Those who can find their way into soft and warm and comfortable place has somehow almost ineluctably I directed to those niches to contacts in friendships and connections and I wanted this Lodge that I want to send them to the 4th precinct and say Hey you lookin Patriots are men and women in the department of and taking risks running to call know. We're going to send them to the 2nd Precinct for a little time. We have evidence that for example of that the that the productivity is not that high. I'm not happy with the way of the burglary investigations have gone on in the 2nd Precinct. We don't have a high enough ratio of a rest. We have a very disappointing ratio of throwouts prosecutors don't believe that the case is a prosecutable. We are we sometimes in the street crimes unit a very aggressive bunch of officers to the 2nd Precinct in no time at all day issue number of citations make a bunch of arrest. Why can the 2nd Precinct do it. So, I think that we've always known that there was a certain flexit tendency to attack police problems, but there any egregious oblate no director specific active police wrongdoing would have been responding to his this one has been if I had any indication that there was this kind of wrongdoing going on. I would have certainly have a tactic we have disciplined offices their connection with the rape case. We have discipline offices in connection with sleeping on duty. We have discipline them for other matters. I like to respond to these things rapidly and vigorously and was prevented by doing. So bye-bye the leaks of this case which absolutely blew its called up before we can sink our teeth into it. Despite what I felt assurances that A confidentially and I know everybody is hollering and screaming and I think they're hollering and screaming and especially the council is very interesting enough now because I'm sweeping it under the rug papering it over or doing nothing. But because I'm doing too much now folks anytime. You can get a bureaucrat to do what you think is too much. I suggest you embrace it because you're my experience in government to very few of his do too much myself included. I know that our listeners are not sleeping on the job a lot of money lines with questions if you slip your headphones on so you'll be able to get a very easily to you first. Hello that uses listening swimming against pornography like Catherine MacKinnon of them hoes feeling Minneapolis Police Department has not been doing its job. Therefore. They wanted to go to the Civil Rights route. What can and what is the Minneapolis Police Department doing the stop pornography? Well, we are enforcing the law. We have a pretty tough Vice operation in terms of them for the enforcement of advice laws are we really don't have very much. I'll Street prostitution and pornography. We inspect the material and literature available for sale and we act on it jail, but it's an extraordinary complex. Nobody knows what pornography is in this Society legislation know that those ladies just suggested and which was ultimately adopted by the city council and wisely vetoed by May or phrase that constituted in my opinion a fascist response to a very serious social problem. Women are not safe and I'll Society they are exploited. They are abused they are frequently the victims of crime and we've got to meet that challenge but no you cannot undertake the solution of complex social problems with fascist Solutions and that legislation that they proposed was in my judgment fascist rubbish. And the courts have now thrown it out. I think we've got it. We need a measured and and the sustained assault on the problem with pornography. There's Central problem is that no one in this country knows what pornography is and one famous. Jurist said, I don't know what pornography is, but I know it when I see it frankly, I doubt that the Supreme Court has been struggling with the question for a hundred years and every 20 years gives us a different definition. So I think that this is a problem is identifying and defining a pornography and we're a long way from getting to that point. We move on to another collar with a question for Minneapolis Police Chief Tony bowls. I had to lie around the air Precinct captain and now that I'm living in Twin Cities and pleased with your performance as police chief would like to applaud your your work so far. I think you have the address to to take the leadership. Call and do what's right for the for the citizens regardless of what leaders may say or do but I think you've done an outstanding job. My my question is what do you think of a volunteer auxiliary police forced to serve as a backup to existing to the existing police force in Minneapolis. So often happens, you know political and figures and bureaucrats so I can say anything they like and they're all for apple pie and motherhood and and and nobody you're not going to get any police chief in the United States to say negative things about it exhilarates. But the reality is that I live it. I mean at this very moment, we have 40 new reservist and training. We have a hundred and forty-one in being we're going to get a job over 200. If you were spoke to the police reserves of Minneapolis, they would say they have no great A Champion than me. If you go to the Vikings games, you will see tremendous numbers are cops directing traffic. They're all Reservist the whole block party at the El every aquatennial Avengers reservist. If you have a race or a public event of each of us are going to handle it a block party. They're going to handle they do a tremendous amount of work in the City of Minneapolis. God knows where I'd be without their helped. I am an Ardent and continuous inconsistent supporter of auxiliaries a reservist and we have one of the very best in the United States in Minneapolis. I am proud to say that really wonderful. Okay, another caller with a question is waiting and you're on the air and I'll go ahead please. All right, I want to bring up one of my favorite Twin Cities personalities is the subject of this would be mr. Ron Edwards president of the Twin Cities Urban League what we share our enthusiasm for a few years ago. He was Operation because he was standing not too far from a decoy operation and Hennepin Avenue warning people not to go ride. The game was posing as it passed out drunk a little over a year ago. He was charged with if you carry a concealed weapon after he got in a fight with a woman in the Hennepin Avenue Bar. And this may sound a little far-fetched. But when I look at the Hennepin County criminal crime statistics and see that the categories of rape robbery assault with a deadly weapon homicide many instances between 70 and 83% of these Major Crimes are committed by minority groups, which are primarily black and I say this is very unfortunate situation causes me to wonder why it a group like the Twin Cities Urban League with take somebody with an unsavory past like a rod Edwards and put him in this public position. Does this mean that that organization is being run by the criminal element within the black community? I'll hang up and listen. Well, that's a difficult question of the run-in with was convicted of interfering with the decoys and subsequently appeal a conviction and on a technicality. It was dismissed. I I press hard to Heaven retried on the case. And as far as I can know it was unsuccessful D the gun charge. I think it's still open and and I'm not aware that it has been resolved and I believe it happen in St. Paul II think that he is a criminal charges really I tend to be kind of irrelevant to the issue. I mean whether each other forms will resolve. I think there were drawn Edwards represents to me is the Dilemma of the blacks in America other the reality that the quality of the leadership has not been what it ought to be and as a result they of the day they tend to wander in the wilderness. If you look at the City of Minneapolis, and I could side you names that you never even heard of this block. Bowman what are you know, what the green now? These are the black leaders who have a tremendous touch your Harry Davis the tremendous or Bona fides tremendous character. Unfortunately, they're doing their own thing. They're busily working and taking care of their families and the discharging their responsibilities and they don't seem to have the time to do Undertaker's political responsibilities that people like, mr. Edwards do is a very good example of the black dilemma in this country. And and and I think that they were the blacks are not being very effectively letters a result of this dilemma. And I think it's tragic and unfortunate them to be let down Primrose path of the Louis farrakhan's and so on... I think is the fundamental tragedy that it for example, run Edwards has been showing me on a variety of issues two-thirds of the people. I have hired have been minority. Women where was he from 1970 to 1981 the Minneapolis Police Department was all white and all male other reality is that he cannot he finds it very difficult to live with people like that on Frasier on myself because in a sense we kind of doing his work and it leaves him know bugbears to strike at No Monsters to site cannot say look I'm saving you from that old girl that monster there for you better supported me and I have made it something of a task or to debate him and to and to bring him out into the public Arena so that the world can evaluate in fairlea assess his contribution or lack of it. He is proved a very deep and bitter disappointment to me and and and I just still have a very low level of trust of that fellow Minneapolis Police Chief Anthony. Bozza is in the studios today answering questions from a variety of listeners your next go ahead, please Smashing job, whatever you're doing. Oh that's easy as civil service has become a butt for the Civil Service Commission is in this country and other captive of the Union City Police unions, not Justa Minneapolis put all over and what they have done is they've become a way to freeze incompetence criminal psychotic and misfits into place is not only impossible. It is not only impossible to fire them forget about firing people were listening. I could get laid off or fired or these people are going to remain under you know, they make over 30,000 a year. They're very well paid very well taken care of and they don't repay the other citizens very well. Firing them. I'm proposing transferring a group of people from one person to another within the City of Minneapolis and look at the hullabaloo that has created yesterday. They had me in the council chambers for 90-minutes grilling me mercilessly over this question who is doing it or be people who basically representing the union so who are very sympathetic. Just add water. I mean you did so hey nobody wants to talk about these questions and I'm sure that the very few of you I've ever had these issues at least not necessarily as accurately describes. What does candidly reported as I perceive it to be the truth? I don't pretend to be the sole repository of all the final truth, but I'm willing to discuss with nobody else considers discussable there. We have a short of gentlemen's agreement of the government that nobody's going to say anything about anybody and there were all going to remain at the public trough until you find this out and try to find another drop in which the wall. Oh, I don't believe that so forget about firing them all together and unrealistic expectation. I'm joking about simply transferring a group of people. The entire city is open arms at the city council meeting. It was some suggestions that maybe you ought to be suspended for a few days as well as the officer. Is it consistent with what happened to the head of the city building department when some of his people were found floating on the job. What is your response to that? My response is that my stewardship want to be called into account that they would have an opportunity to vote on my appointment early appointment and they feel that I have undertaken some Act of a dereliction. They go to hold me to account. Obviously. It has a large Ledger sheet. There are pluses and minuses in it. I don't return to run a perfect operation. I'm sure they were my nurse is in it but I think we will get into a very interesting question. And the question is does a chief of police have any sure where is responsibility or a stewards responsibility an insurer is responsibility is to be held accountable and responsible for every specific act so that any day Would reflect on me a police officers arrested for burglary fire the chief another police officer beat up his wife fire the chief suspend the chief or do I have a steward responsibilities in terms of things. I should have known should have responded to it should have acted on should have taken discipline on if the if we found that the police department and I had widespread abuse has that we're not being addressed the disciplinary problems. That would not that we're not directly Matt why I think we would have a very serious question sister my stewardship if we discovered is Pacific and I made it active wrongdoing is this one was that gets struck at investigated very vigorously to vigorously by the way to vigorously to satisfy. The member who raised that point who is Dennis Yost and then it shows that there is a talkin the really another question of my reappointment is trying to gather steam I think too or to frustrate my desire to remain What is a couple of years? Well, that's alright. I think that it is a legitimate question to raise and I have no difficulty debating and I think that anybody stewardship want to be called into account and what to be analyzed and assess if a significant percentage of the forest were found to be engaged in wrongdoing. I think that I would certainly reflect very directly on my stewardship you sort of enjoy these little sparring matches with the city council or are you getting kind of disgusted by it? I've never enjoyed them. I don't enjoy them. Now I never have I think that the American public gets shortchanged in terms of public debate. I don't think that they said that they were informed enough. I don't think they're in a public officials willing to tell the simple truth. I mean everybody in City Hall knows that then it shows that is the closest. I lied to the unions have but nobody will say so and you couldn't get anybody to say so well that makes his actions. I think understandable within that context what he plays a game. Yeah, I think it is rather disgusting out to engage in the end. They these endless diatribes and debates who needs it. I don't need the battling. I'm frankly. I don't provoke any of it. I respond simply because quite frankly boys are naked bald attempt to a wheel of Trojan Horse into the van Minneapolis Police Department. So they could start running it again. I mean the old Amanda Jake actually suggested that we recreate the position of Inspector a political toy and placing in this city that was kicking around here for forty years that took me about three years to get rid of I finally eliminated all the inspector has he had the temerity to suggest that we recreate this political toy that it would which we can reward all the faithful or rather absurd. I would much rather avoid this one thing. Let's move on to more listener questions. Go ahead please your next. I have a feeling that you're less articulate opponents are intimidated. I'm calling you because I'm a longtime resident in South Minneapolis. Mystery shows kids Ward where he's been a reasonably good Alderman, but I I don't know where this put this is a question or statement comment on and I feel that Mister DJ can miss her she'll said is making an early run towards the next mayoral race the police department being one of the most visible apartments and I feel better trying to get there may be at your expense. I'll hang up and listen. Well, it's one thing I resist doing is wallowing in self-pity. I want to thank you for for the positive comments. I think that has two different tewolde chick. I think wants to run to Minneapolis Police Department. He would like to be at the room remote control chief of the Minneapolis Police Department and over the years as it consistently attempted to interfere in his operations making suggestions to her sister with who to transfer who the fathers would have to reward where they what to do constantly of the last example of that was when he when he promoted AI very thinly disguised four point plan to further his Ambitions to run to the apartment. Then it shows Ted is more complicated question. He is probably the cleverest fellow in City Hall a very tough gentleman to debate very very very close Sly and clever in my judgment is he is he is Displaying our kind of interesting game Republican who is a great Ally of the unions. And what is that how he resolves this dichotomy is a fast as fascinating. Are you a girl before I hearing of his and he will say well the union would want something and then you will say well, I'm sick to death of these demands. I want you to but I'm going to put you on notice that I never want to see this is before my committee again. I'm going to Grant it to you this one time and that's it and don't come back again. And and I'm putting you on notice that the that I'm not sick of these is a question. I'm really upset but I'll go along with you this once and that's the kind of game. He plays in the government very clever stuff very hard to find it out. I'm sure you even a constituent Vision articular turn the television to decipher one probably not even aware that you have to be there all the time. I assure you that if any of the United Spirits and city hall or listening there all night. Yes is I'm saying if it would they say it the answer is no speaking of the nearest rest, you have any inclination toward that yourself medical positions. No one can accuse me of it yesterday at the Dietrich accused me of participating in political contest and I'll end up with a falsehood and he knew it to be a falsehood and that's the sort of thing that really gets me. It really take that at the pizza guy know I only have no inclination of a partisan politics. I have no talent for them. I am one of those people who is Nick never would say never I never say never who knows what the future will bring but I have my my honest-to-god feeling is the following I had that I have no talent for it. And I hope that God so construx my life that I never have to win to take a political campaign of any sort. I have no interest or appetite for it, but I wouldn't be glued. It is a possibility. Okay, I will take another listen to question. Go ahead you're on the other Chief is listening a different ways of dealing with crime other than arrests in tickets loafing cops notwithstanding here in Northeast Minneapolis. You have a very tight Community you have a lot of very familiar cops people who would perhaps grown up in the area people who have been there for a long time who may be have special ways and maybe sometimes very creative ways of dealing with crime other than just running people in you think there's something to that argument and does it undermine your plans to shake up the precinct. What is very great deal to that argument and it said that's a very sophisticated and complex in sight. And which is the reason why I have asked the supervisors who observe these officers and the commanding officer who is observed their performance to identify two was those who are dedicated who are doing the job who are concerned who are really interested. I'll I believe with you completely that crime prevention is keeping a social glue together keeping the community bonded neighborhood watch claws block clubs in community crime prevention of operation ID premises security service and so on so, I believe very strongly that what you're saying is right. What I hope to do is there is really at the transfer out a bunch of people who perhaps you ought to be a life and a little bit some people who have who will be disciplined somebody who who are naturally gravitated towards those assignments that we all know constitute a certain amount of goldbricking. I know that phrase is going to get me into some difficulty that will send historic restriction to the app. But the reality is that it if you're a supervisor, you know, who is who's working and who isn't and you're not going to you're not necessarily going to evaluate their performance in the number of Widgets or whatever. I don't evaluate and Tatiana rest in response to calls and citations. But I do think that the supervisors can tell us who are the dedicated folks and who are the ones who were really out there trying and who really care and those are not going to be touched. I promise you if you transfer officers who are used to a more combative type of situation into that particular Precinct. Do you think that the character and style of law enforcement in that Precinct will change seems like some of the people who live there rather like the laid-back style it exist currently frankly know. I don't think it was an altogether too easily my oh my my preference would be to introduce them more aggressive style Patrol to be perfectly honest. I think that we will get that slightly more aggressive. Not aggressive enough to satisfy me. I like it aggressive. I Like It Right Down the Line. I like the laws enforced the breaches addressed a straightforward law enforcement. I know it sounds a bit Ill Mind listen to conion, but I like it aggressive and and laid-back always invites to the police to be altogether too laid-back. Here's another car with a question earlier. I believe we have a double standard of Justice after a young couple Bastion $100,000 Navy computer it straight to let them are saying that too because for univac have been convicted of overbilling the government that these people were is not justified at least excuse and they're actually it's kind of like somebody saying that I can go steal the car from the man down. The street was just thrown in jail for robbing a bank and said you knew judicial interpretation. I also noticed that they protest The shutdown Honeywell for a day in the trespass out of the Honeywell ground. So their case was thrown out of court to do to read a sloppy evidence taken by think by the police department in also in terms of Despair univac over on the River Road for about five or six months. It was a rather sloppy looking Camp of homemade hot silver see one of them caught on fire and there was a women's group that occupied public lands for many months before they were finally asked to leave after the whole thing is pretty much over. It seems to me that we have a real tradition this town of shrub bashing or thrashing those so-called defense companies with pouring millions of dollars of wages and taxes into the community and through the sloppy police work out of the federal judges don't seem to understand that I will wash it work or various other situations. We surprised these companies don't just pack up and leave that's what I do if I was running them. Well, let me know let me respond immediately. I cannot be held accountable. No answer for the actions of a federal judge. I have repeatedly said that the system of Georgia requires accountability and let people have to be held accountable for their actions have to answer for their tracks and that and frankly I do not approve of Civil Disobedience and naiah and disagree with it. But I cannot answer for the actions of a federal judge this very question took place in St. Paul out of my jurisdiction. I cannot answer for that job for the trash bags with a Honeywell you are absolutely mistaken. And I think that they that you would miss State the facts really are colors all the reasoning although it was done articulately this very moment Honeywell trespassers are in jail. We have lost some cases in one the overwhelming majority and send the overwhelming majority of the demonstrators to jail. Somebody told me that has recently is Wednesday night on Channel 4. There is a story of a woman who is in jail for trespassing at Honeywell so I can answer for Honeywell. Like I said a Honeywell a good corporate Citizen and I've known as far as I know I've never said anything negative about it very far as I know they obey the law and I have no problem with him and everybody that has trespassed at Honeywell has been arrested. We have not allowed encampments that we have been very tough and I bitterly resent the allegations sloppy police work is sloppy Gathering of evidence. I think it's very easy to throw out terms of that nature any analysis of the of the circumstances will demonstrate that the overwhelming majority of first of all of the people who broke the law will be arrested in the overwhelming majority of them were convicted and a great many of those went to jail so that I think that when you when you engage and I kind of sofas That kind of false reasoning you cannot be allowed to get away with it. I do not answer for this Perry incident and I do not answer for the federal judge, but I do answer for the Honeywell and there it has not been sloppy. I think it has been not only meticulous. But even exemplary police actions minimum violence maximal accountability maximum number of arrest people sent to jail and now we are here to listen to the saying that they getting away with it. That's rubbish hapless. Police chief Anthony Bosa on the record this new one on Minnesota Public Radio on your next may we have your question, please chief of police but for Philadelphia and I was wondering if there was any truth to that. If not, maybe you could come up to Brooklyn Park. That's where I live. I enjoy her rhetoric immensely. Thank you. Are you beginning to make me feel like WC Fields Philadelphia effective sometime in January the Philadelphia press called Mia to seek my advice or as to how they might undertake a shirt search nothing more than that has happened. No one has contacted me about that job and I have expressed no interest in that job my immediate interest and and only concern is to be reappointed as chief of police in Minneapolis in January and hopefully deserve another 3 years what the future holds are no one can predict but as I foresee it, it is another three years in Minneapolis where I have been treated for all better than I deserve and and where the public has been extraordinarily kind to me. And and where are you going to have so far had a wonderful time? You said earlier in response to a question about the mayor's race never say never you say the same thing about the Philadelphia police chief job if they came Tony Bowser you are the man. We want you by all means come would you would you were so I wouldn't say no, I wouldn't say never to the job of head coach of the Minnesota Vikings have that came up. I'll be so I never say never with a question earlier. You sure are. Has been the best police chief in the twenty years. I've lived in Minneapolis by Paris change Minneapolis Police Force from being a bunch of other people. I only hope that they continue to just sit around every time you're on the TV on the radio. You know, there's nothing I could disagree. All right, we'll take another listener with a question. Go ahead Minneapolis Police Chief. Tony Bowes is here and he's listening. Looking into the future when your stewardship of the Minneapolis Police Department and sometime in the future Edition. Have you consider seeking public office in Minnesota? Are the answer to your first question is ideally I would like to teach and write write a lot. I don't get published very much. I want because I'm going in Syria right there. A lot of people who write as much as I do think that the Publishers don't have any sense. I happen to think that they have a great deal of sense, but I keep on writing anyway, and that the teaching was sounds like a comfortable life somewhere on Cape Cod. This is what I would Envision for myself. I would not again say never to the question of public office. I'm a I'm an immigrant in a naturalized American citizen. I'm appalled by the quality of people that we sent to public office all over this land and and some you know, what my attitude is due to get some of it back this country is giving me so much. I try to give back as much as I can do and and if that's got to be a way of doing something like that I would do it, but I really God forbid. I really have no appetite for it and no particular venture. in public office All right, you are next go ahead please you're on the air. Was wondering if you could speak to condition. So you think of attributed to this recent dramatic increase in crime, and I'm also wondering if you think there's any connection between the increase in crime and policing or if there's any connection between increase in crime and the relationship that you have with the police Union. I'll turn up my radio and hang up and listen to your response is why I hate to do this show is because of the questions the other listeners are really different than this station. Are you get the video very tough questions has made you his number one priority in his next Administration in that is right on there. They're the ones that commit the crimes and create the problems and they they constitute a very volatile and dangerous mixture out there. So what do we have gangs are not in Minneapolis? Timothy becomes irrelevant to the question when you consider that we have a tremendously serious youth problem dropouts unemployed single parent children, alcoholism drug addiction or kind of crimes are these are the police and when you get right down to it, the question is yes to the second part of your question is this related to loafing of the Union the answer is no the police are irrelevant. It is relevant to the question of crime as Vietnam generals worth of the year to the war of Vietnam and how it should be kinda conducted. The reality is a crime is a symptom of deep underlying societal my legs. All we do is attack the symptom with somebody commits a crime we arrest them. Will you put up with uniformed officer in a in front of a building? Everybody thinks that prevent crime it doesn't prevent crime at this place. Is it a prevent crime in front of that building and I moved it somewhere else but the conditions is Aristotle said that poverty is the parent of revolution in crime, and I think he Identity is right now. We feel we don't attack the social conditions in literacy unemployment drug and alcohol addiction place to go drop out. What's the growing polarizacion of the of the economic classes the growth of an underclass give me the most important document that will come out and this decade in terms of what I consider. What I believe will be of Holocaust Survivors and criminality and I'll cities before the century is over. Is there the Catholic bishops' pastoral letter on social justice when that comes out that was speaker to the growing Hedonism narcissism Super League Tendencies of our populace growing selfishness, the growing economic polarizations the growth of an underclass the exclusion of blacks and Native Americans and Hispanics all of these things for 10 to the cataclysmic consequences for the future clearly visible. Oh and to which no police chief can speak it has to be a national debate and I'm afraid that by inviting police chief's to speak on these questions. We're inviting the simple answer is that we got in the Vietnam war death. Wish you were going to say hi or more cops get has more money cuz more time will take care of everything with the professionals and that isn't going to be the answer. It's a very complex question. I was to you a question of crying and looking at the Last 5 Years in Minneapolis 1981-82 a very high crime areas. 1984 was a very low Crimea 1985 is not looking good in comparison to 1984. What is looking pretty good in comparison to 1981 and 1982 show 1985, why were experiencing high crime levels will prove to be higher than 84 and lower than 81 and 82 should we are well within the range of the of the out of the five-year average going back 5 years. Nothing to be comforted by I'm under stress by it and it's going up and down in a very erratic fashion. I'm more used to Two or more sensible of March undulation of the waves, but I will say that that what I hear the president then and even our by public officials in the state say we have turned the corner and cry. We have solved the problem bigger jail stuff of Judges Mina cops. Are there more laws that is rubbish dangerous rubbish because what it does and I heard this debated in the end of a senatorial debate. It is dangerous rubbish because the temp supposed to believe that we have found the answer whenever y'all are do we haven't even begun to raise the questions and answers police chief Tony Bose it with us today and you're next when we have your question or not for a long question, but might be too detailed to get into a very big answer on. My concern is was the Chinese secret societies that find on the cold season West Their encroachment on the legal life in the United States, and I'm wondering if you run across very much of that type of activity in Minneapolis and what the can be done about that. I'll hang up and listen. Thank you. They offer it is a very serious problem on how much more aware of the extent and nature of the problem in New York and I am in San Francisco and it is very serious with the awful murders extortions a controller neighborhoods in businesses awful. I'm not aware of any extensive influence here that is a very difficult thing to penetrate the province of of the community the business Community the one of the reasons why we don't have a lot of organized crime in Minneapolis, and st. Paul is because he has so many home-grown industries that the honeywells and the Pillsbury is in the car goes in the three animals that have that have kept it the year of the community very clean. I've had a very deep interest in its welfare very active involvement rotary Kiwanis Alex Caribou lutefisk Society. Boosterism I happen to love boosterism. I think that it was Sinclair Lewis were alive today and if he has been as lucky as I have been to have been chief of police of the Bronx for 4 years and chief of police Minneapolis for 6. I think it would have seen unsuspected virtues and George Follansbee Babbitt and service of the rotary and the boosterism. The reality is that you were talking about. Her tremendously complex issues very hard to penetrate those of the secret societies very hard to investigate them the best way to keep them out of this is to have a strong, communal sentiment against them business associations that resists the encroachments who would testify come forward give evidence bite the bullet or hard things to do in the short run but in the long run, they promote the air come out of the the safety when you give in to these things in the short run what you were doing is promoting the long-term destruction of the society. A listener's with questions for chief Bowser today and will take you next to him, please. Mecha Bowser only bloom from Alexandria Minnesota, and I just wanted to call and tell you that we're former residence of Minneapolis and we know what went on down there before you got there safely. Glad you're in there and just keep up the good work. God bless you. Mr. Bloom. Thank you. All right. We'll take another you are on the air. Defense of your policies concerning Honeywell and spirit that would also like to ask you are you anti-union and do you feel there's a place for unions in the workplace? Thank you. That's very good question. I'm glad you asked it. I was born to poverty and immigrant. I came to this country the age of 9. My father died when I was fifteen, he made his living and shoveling coal into the holds of ships to keep them going. My mother was a member of the international ladies garment Workers Union. Most of her life still alive gets a pension. I am an Ardent Union is does. I am an Ardent defender of the civil service system that has brought me to where I am today, but I wasn't any power relationship you can get out of balance police unions today because they are of the check-off system because they have gotten so much money. They have been able to hire a lawyer and labor experts and talented people and we ignorant police chief's mostly up from the ranks with how much education mostly members of the Union's ourselves have been no match for them. So today the unions are running the Enterprise is the simple power. Relationship that has nothing to do with good or evil in which year the strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must so the police unions in my experience have just how old were played that hand and eye in a book just outgrow police leadership in America contribute to 40 page article entitled police unions roaring lions or Paper Tigers. I believe very strongly in trade unionism. I think that the that the prosperity of America is largely is largely to be attributed to the efforts of the Gompers in the greens and and all the other Heroes of of of unionism. I think that the laborer is worthy of his hire has the right to organize be protected against arbitrary and capricious active management to be paid a living wage to get protections what the labor it does not do is have the right to manage the Enterprise and of the bureaucracy in the government that is what is happening. And that is what troubles me. What is really peculiar that fellow like me who is regarded as something of a flaming liberal which automatically which one means of the Union Cab and I am and I just love the whole idea of workers and unions should now be perceived and I can see that that isn't on his perception as an enemy of unions that that would be a very sad thing. I am fundamentally and immigrants are grateful to this nation and grateful to its unions for having done all the things that he has done the Minneapolis Police Union. Is it particularly horrific example of a beauty abuse of power when the citizens of Minneapolis allow themselves to get spooked by seizing a simple solution to a complex social problem and elected the president of the police Union mayor of the city what day was doing is picking up a fox in Joliet into the chicken coop and hoping that he will rearrange things in an orderly fashion. That is a lot to hold for. Here's another listener with a question for a chief Bowser. Go ahead, please. Right on the very edges of Minneapolis and in the suburbs. I'm not in areas suggestion for this community. I would like to have you and your job another 3 years what can a pitbull in Minneapolis and what can the people in the suburbs do to have some impact on these people in City Hall? Well, I appreciate the idea and I'm truly grateful to you and I think the people as you've just reflected have been kinder to me than I deserve but honestly, I would not I would I would not only not to encourage any effort. I would actively discourage any effort to keep me in my post. I think that they are entitled to vote their conscience and Anna and well whether they vote will be alright with me. I will accept it as part of the democratic process and January the city council vote on my reappointment and I am absolutely confident that they said that they will vote to their conscience and that they will make a sensible decision whatever that decision may be and if it is no I would say that it has been a wonderful time and thank everyone for it and if it is yes continue to serve but I will not undertake any actions that could be construed as politicking for my job. Do any political figure I think they're entitled to the independence of Their Own Private wisdom, and however, they decide as far as I'm concerned as their problem. I appreciate it and thank you for it. But my answer is so let's see how it plays out. We have about 10 minutes left for questions for the chief your next week ad please Bad girls of Youth gangs in the Twin City area. Can you turn my radio down if you like to get a kind of done that thank you. I know you're chief. You need help me and get to the 1991 International Association of chiefs of Police Convention for Minneapolis really for Minnesota. So five years six years has all those crazy Chiefs going over the city like so many ants you will know that Eli miletich had something to do with it as I hope I did Dan question in the United States today is in Los Angeles a New York City does not have a serious gang problem. I'm sure both of those must come as a surprise to most listeners Chicago has a serious gang problem, but not the most serious in this nation. We do not have a serious gang problem, which is not to say we could not have games. We have a lot of talk about games. We have a nation problem and it's Incipio. Stage is a lot of kids talking about a lot of excitement. A lot of the talk has helped to coalesce enthusiasm for the game question among the youth so it is possible but whether we have gangs or not and then as I said, I do not believe we currently have a serious gang problem. We are monitoring it very carefully and and and the arrest of course in the crates queso. What does a very large wet blanket over it but I would be less than candid. If I did not say that just before coming here today. I read a report from one of our Precinct about gang involving some Native Americans. Well, I'm going to strike at that very vigorously and very quickly. The real problem is we have a youth problem. We have a lot of kids in this city Native American and black Les Mis degree Hispanic all dressed up with no place to go that is a complex problem with talking about we have teenage girls in this in this country who have sex about as frequently as German French Italian girls British girls, but they produce many many more children. Why is that because we have this small listic apocracy about sex education in the high school. So although every study demonstrates that are young women are not having sex any more frequently than young women and other Western Nations, they producing disproportionately huge number of children. That's a fantasy alcohol unemployed on the streets hanging out. That's a serious problem. A Fraser has the answer to the problem, but nobody wants to hear it because it's a very boring as It means that ucation and jobs in a long struggle. Everybody would want simple answers. They would like the police chief to get to say. Hey, I'm going to take my trusty flamethrower go down to the corner and incinerate those kids were standing there. That's really what we want in our animals hearts. I hear a saying that we want to do that isn't going to solve anything. It's going to be a long boring painful struggle and the best formula that I have seen for that struggle consistently is done phrases plans though. I don't get involved in partisan politics in and I did not endorse razor in this last election. I don't go in for that stuff, but I think that if everybody's eyes glaze over and they fall into a catatonic stultifying hate when they see his program in the program is the only one I know there's going to work but it won't tell you no to create a task watch go out there. That's where we all want to hear. That's that's that won't work folks. That's okay. Get us into deeper and deeper trouble. We need education. We need jobs. We need housing. We need accountability. I'm not talking about a free lunch. I don't know why family decline to accept what was then called home relief because of our pride and we worked out way out of poverty and got her with my skills. I might work my way back into it cuz I'm not talkin about welfare. I'm talking about getting people to break accountability so that they can help themselves. That's what makes the society especially in the midwest different. We believe in the neighbors and Community accountability and performance and that's what's going to get us out of the woods yet, and we have a serious problem and it's going to get solved through some long painful programs some of which will fail But if they're not undertaken, I promise you we're heading for a holocaust have time for maybe a couple more questions. Go ahead please your next and I was wondering under some new state guidelines. It is now unethical for a doctor to give a known drug drug addict an addictive drug and also rotten.con a methadone program are they only have allowed two hundred people on it. And so anyone knew trying to get on his told they must wait at least six months and have to call in at least once a week to keep their name active on the roster. Of course, it would be ideal if everyone went to treatment and nobody used any narcotics, but in view of the fact that an addict trying to find a legal compromise to the problem of addiction is basically turned away by Society. Are you feel this the most civilized way to handle the problem? World War II am. I don't know enough about the pharmacology or or medical questions to decide what it which treatment would be best. But I absolutely favor the existence of a panoply of treatment strategies that address of the La Mer of the attic the other wants to avoid addiction that means cold turkey or methadone maintenance or any other method of withdrawal. I think we've got to work with addicts to help them work their way out of addiction and a realistic fashion in my experience methadone maintenance has been a very useful strategy for getting I forgetting addicts off the drugs. So I would applaud the expansion of that program. I think it is a useful program and and believe it to be generally worthwhile. Although maybe I don't know enough about it to her to speak more than subjectively to the question. Extensive media infiltration to community media for education and one comment regarding your own personal writing bad writers just bad attitude you a ride, but I'm afraid you're wrong with my I've met a lot of good attitude that I know. I'm a lousy writer. But thanks for the lift up what the media is you use that positively, you know, you get an issue and you get a 4-ohm. I have this for him here. I was afforded an opportunity to appear on television this evening and I decline because I have something else to do or hopefully better hits and misses you do the best you can the union tries hard. I think two. Navigate its message, but it's message basically is antithetical to the people's interests. And I think that the people can sense that very cleverly. So how do you sell that? I mean, that's a tough sell. I would hate to be if I were the Union president. I say the first thing we got to do is start working hard and developing some positive action some positive substance and then we'll see if we can't get the form to follow and you know, what I'll just make a very brief coming you. All right, your suggestion also is it is a fascinating a commentary on I'm coming on the Contemporary American stain. We have become more public relations experts. We forget the content and concentrate on the packaging. How do you get a better image? How do you get public? We create a whole industry of spokespeople public relations? What are they supposed to be doing out there to put a better face on a subject? Why have the Tail Wag the Dog why not have the dog wag the tail and and do a better job and let the world Discover it that's the best. Chief we could go on for hours based on the number of listeners who are still left on the lines, but unfortunately the time does Rule and radio and we have run out of time. Thank you very much for coming and visiting with us today doing now. I most especially want to thank the listing is I have a special feeling about ksjn listen as I think they have a very intelligent and I always have the feeling that if I lose them I'm going to be in a lot of trouble love it because that there probably is a hard core of my support, so I have got to say I love them, and I don't want to thank them all for their kindness and thank you for giving me this opportunity. Thank you. All right. Thanks.