A synthetic hormone called d e s was given to millions of pregnant women in the 1950's and 60's in an effort to prevent miscarriage. The drug was outlawed for this use in 1971 the children who were born especially the daughters developed a higher than normal risk of developing cancer Our Guest this new one is Joyce bichler a victim of DS cause cancer wonder when traumatic medical treatment about 9 years ago. She then went on to sue one of the major manufacturers of d e s and almost exactly two years ago a New York jury awarded her half a billion dollars in Damages Joyce McClure has written a book about her experience a paperback called simply d e s daughter. She is also the president of the Minnesota chapter of a group called DEA action in just a few moments will give out the telephone number so you can ask your questions about d e s in about Joyce's experiences, but Joyce before we get to the listener.Let me ask you briefly a little background about d e s what it is why it was used and why I finally the Food and Drug Administration order. The Vue discontinued DS is a synthetic estrogen that was first developed in the late thirties early forties. And initially it was approved to be used for prostate cancer breast cancer and treatment for women who don't want to breastfeed after they gave birth. Then the drug companies decided might be effective for use in preventing miscarriage in women and it was approved for this use in the early to actually 1947. So between 47 and 1971, it was widely given to women to prevent miscarriage. We now know and it was known in the 50s that it was totally ineffective for this use it was found in 1971 that all of a sudden women were walking and young women with a very unusual kind of cervical and vaginal cancer that had never been seen before.I mean under the age of thirty. The link was made that their mothers had been taken d e s e e s is also been used for some other things as a hormone to feed cattle. He has a good morning after birth control pill and how about those uses? What are those impact? Absolutely. We do know that almost every person in this country has in some way or other been exposed to Tes it was used in cattle feed for many many years to fatten up the cattle before they were taken to slaughter and Trace Amounts of DS have been found in beef particular in the organ Meats. There has been fighting since 71 to 79 to get a band for that use. It wasn't bad until late 1979. And even today we do know of at least one quarter of a million violations of that ban at all in any circumstance today is still on the market as you mentioned. It is being used as the morning after pill to women to to prevent a possible pregnancy.We really have been trying to get it off the market the FDA only Bandit for use in pregnancy that was in 1972. But the drug still is being used between Lee late forties in 1971 when it was banned for use in pregnancy. Do you have any idea how many people took the drug and then how many might be affected by it actual numbers on this? Cuz it was you so widespread. We do estimate that between 3 and 6 American women were given this drug between 41 and 71 we estimate from those figures that approximately 100000 to 200000 minnesotans were given the stroke. So you're the numbers are really quite large. What are the medical consequences that approximately 1 + 1,000 of the d e s daughters do developed this rare type of cancer. I need to emphasize that that is rare even among the es daughter's it's symptomless.Can be treated if caught in time the main concern is that between 60 to 90% of those women exposed to DS? The daughters do have a benign cellular condition in their vagina and cervix. Now, we do know that this is not necessarily a hazardous effect, but it does need to be followed overtime newest Research indicates that many men edes daughters are having problems with pregnancy either having difficulty conceiving or when they do conceive having either miscarriages or premature deliveries latest studies team seem to show that 50% of d e s daughters may have problems with their first pregnancy. But ultimately 80% will be able to carry through and deliver a normal child. The drug are aware of that exposure and what its consequences are we do know I'm a study was taken in New York state which it had actually a lot of publicity on it that approximately 50% of people exposed did not even know of Eric.Bossier so it is crucial that people find out we recommend for DS Action that everybody born after 1941 ask their mother. Did she take any kind of hormone any kind of sometimes DS with Miss mixed with vitamins? Does she take any kind of drugs at all during her pregnancy? If so, or if there's any indication of a prior history of miscarriage or diabetes, the daughters should really try to go back and get their medical records to see what if anything was given after prison for people to actually get their hands on it. If it records cannot be gotten all we do recommend that DS expose go for a special screening exam. The normal pelvic exam is not sufficient to detect DS related changes. I had the cancer my pap. Smear came back negative. So you really do need to go to a physician who was familiar with the techniques of d e s screening it only takes meFive minutes more than the regular exam but it really is crucial that if there's any question you do go for this examination. Do you find the most medical doctors are aware of this problem. Now this potential problem, it's hard to say all through our consumer-oriented nonprofit organization DS Action. We have put together for the state of Minnesota a medical referral if these are not recommendations, is there just doctors who we know who do IDs related screening and we have quite a good number of Physicians who are very capable and certainly know how to do this type of examination thousand Minnesota women who took the drug how many offspring might then be affected or effected half of those numbers are the mothers who took it and we estimate that one quarter of daughters and 1/4 of sons.So they're still watching us to see what the effects are. But we do know it from others. There is a slightly increased chance of breast cancer in these women. So we recommend that all the Essex Fells mother's as all women should do is give themselves a monthly breast self-examination. How about the sun's now this is very interesting again. The research is still pouring in on this week at a new study in our office almost weekly sons are affected. We do know that DS sons have a higher incidence of undescended testicle as well as other structural and benign testicular changes. There is no direct link between DS exposure and Sons and cancer. Although we do know that sons who have undescended testicles. Anybody has undescended testicles has a higher incidence of testicular cancer. So we do Advocate testicular self-examination for men. The more concern is that Sun seem to also have fertility problems and latest studies are showing that as many asOne in four DS expose son will have abnormal semen. In your book d e s daughter which apparently just came out within the past couple of weeks. You describe your own personal experience with this from the time that you were in college and right on through the other Lake City legal proceedings without giving away everything there. Would you would you like to I just sort of re4son on what you experienced was cervical and vaginal cancer and had really severe surgery to take care of that went through many medical crisis and getting mistreated but then realized after I was going to survive I was very angry about what happened. We have so much evidence to show that The Stroke was improperly tested the pharmaceutical companies did not test the stroke on pregnant animals before giving it to pregnant women. So what that anger I decided I was going to fight back and ended up suing the pharmaceutical companies have been awarded the the money but his other snowmobiles going on. Eli Lilly company whom we did Sue is still appealing the case are very pleased to announce that just last week the highest court in New York has dismiss Lily's Appeal on that level which is a major victory for us, but we're waiting to see what Lily will do now. So I don't see the money until everything is settled a lawsuit for other options for one thing as you mentioned the records being, you know from the time it was given to the time you find out about this 20 to 30 years have gone by we could prove that. My mother was given DS but we could not prove who manufactured it and it one time as many as 200 different companies that manufacture this drug we decided that we were going to see Eli Lilly and Company one of the reasons for that is that Lily was the major manufacturer of this drug. Secondly will there was plenty of evidence showing that in the 1940s Lily headed a small committee that of pharmaceutical companies that pull their RI Search in order to get this drug approved and we felt that Lily should be jointly liable with the other companies and being responsible for the improper testing of this drug and the courts have stood by us on that decision. So you have actually won a suit against all of these manufacturers, even though you were unable to prove that it was Lily that manufactured the particular pills at your mother to an effect. Yes. We did have the one sold offended as Lily and this should really help other DS daughters. There are many many problems and bringing suit one of which is the statute of limitations which varies from state-to-state but sometimes by the time a woman finds out she has any ill-effects it's too late to sue the other problem is of course getting the records and certainly this will help for those women is anyway Joyce bichler is with us the snow and end we would open the phone lines now for your questions about d e s in the Twin Cities. The number to call is 227-6002 to When 6000 in the Twin Cities outside Minneapolis Saint Paul 800-652-9700 865 to 9700 anywhere within the state of Minnesota and 227 6000 in the Twin Cities. What about the chances of recurrence in people like yourself who either have cancer or who go through the procedures and find they haven't got that but they have other problems for many women that we all need to be examined regularly for myself. Mike cancer condition is stable right now, but I need to have examinations every 6 months for most TDS expose that have any kind of effects. We do recommend at least 6 months or yearly checkups. Unfortunately, the won't the oldest a d e s daughter is only 40 years old. So these types of cancers usually do show up in women who are older in their fifties or their sixties. So we really don't know what the future brings for us there for this is the reason why it's crucial for every person to identify whether they're exposed or not. So it is part of their medical record and that they do continue to get regular checkups. We have some people on the telephone Joyce who would like to ask a question of you about Des. So let's go to our first caller now higher on the air. And when I was about 17 years old as a morning after pill and I took it twice then and once about maybe a year later and I all in all I think I took about three separate pills and I just wondered if you could comment on the effects given in that way you are and we took it a lot of calls in or DS Action office regarding women who are given the morning after pill right now. There is no studies that show that there are ill effects on women who took it as the morning after pill for the most part we have to say, we really don't know we do know that the mothers who took it during pregnancy seem to have an increased risk of breast cancer in her having his cancer earlier than usual. So I would recommend that anybody who has taken it in any form make sure that they do practice monthly self-breast examination and to go for regular gynecological check-ups substantially different in the two applications. I in smaller just over a longer. Of time. Of course, we do know that there are no safe levels of DS. My mom only took it for 12 days and I had the cancer the morning after pill. I believe you take it in more massive doses for a shorter. Of time. Our concern is that some women might be pregnant prior to taking it for the morning after pill take it and then carry. Do you want a pregnancy have an expose child or the morning after pill often? Cause ill effects like nausea vomiting a woman might take it just for one day not continue to take it and carry through with the pregnancy. So potentially there still rdes expose children being born. More people on the telephone with questions high you're on the air. And is it the estrogen related or hormone? Yes, it's a bit was the first synthetic estrogen ever produced? I still have severe teenage acne and they gave me. Thing that I was supposed to take away the acne, but it also have my menstrual. And I don't know what it was because they didn't tell patients then but they said it was related to estrogen and I wonder if you have any records that ever been used for that purpose. Will we know again DS has been used in so many different shapes and forms on it's hard to say there are many estrogens that have been used in progesterones. The best thing to do is try to go back and get those records. Obviously, you know, if you're not having any ill-effects currently that you know about from it, you know, what I would want to find out that I wouldn't be overly worried about it, but I would recommend if you anybody is taking any hormone to get the records and find out exactly what it was to check that out a we do find that there's no carryover on as far as we can tell if it was the drug was taken in a previous pregnancy or before pregnancy that that did not affect the Child are we only have evidence that shows that it affects the child when it was taken during that pregnancy. We have information on how to get records and I would advise anybody to contact rdes action Minnesota office, which is located at the YWCA, which is at 1130 Nicollet Minneapolis 55403. Thank you for calling we do have a couple of phone lines open in the Twin Cities. If you have a question about d e s the phone number on the radio today to 276 thousand in Minneapolis Saint Paul to 276 thousand outside the Twin Cities area 800-652-9700. We have another listener on the line high you're on the air. I heard something you said today about people taking vitamins during the pregnancy. Yes. I'm back in the In my pregnancy and I don't know whether it contains, you know vitamins that we're just vitamins, but we do have lots of incidences where D E S was mixed with vitamins and of course back in those days, you know a doctor might have just given you a pill told you it was to help the baby or hear something that has some vitamins in it. So many women believe they were just taking vitamins when in effect they were taking vitamins mixed with d e s the first three months of pregnancy. I never had any trouble at that time that I had at that time. I would I go about finding out whether or not it's a common. Problem in it. It really is difficult to get back to these records. I would recommend if you cannot get to the doctor's records check with the hospital often times hospitals keep records for longer periods of time. And if they did a good history when you were admitted, they might have had what you were taken during your pregnancy on your records. If you got this bees vitamin prescriptions filled in a pharmacy try to check with the pharmacist. It was demolished. I said what happened. Repaired in you again? We are we recommend this to everyone who has any question. You can contact DS Action Minnesota and you can get it list of doctors who are familiar with DEA screening have your children go for that type of exam. If there's any of these effects it will show up most likely on an examination of a doctor knows what to look for what to feel for if there's a son born out of that pregnancy have the sun check with a urologist or if there's any problem in getting starting his own family to have a semen analysis done. And that's really the best thing that you could do at what age should these exams be done for women who recommend that examination should start by the age of 14 or when was the daughter starts menstruating or There's any discharge or bleeding. We do the youngest EES daughter who has had the cancer was age 7 so we do recommend for all parents to be aware of any kind of unusual bleeding or discharge. Not that first check turns out okay, then can a person say well terrific. I've got nothing to worry about I think pretty much if again most of the changes have been benign related to DS exposure. So if you have no structural and no visual changes that pretty much you can feel fairly comfortable again, it should be part of your medical record. You should continue to go for regular examinations, but you should feel pretty secure when women start having pregnant new trying to become pregnant. A lot of those structural changes are pregnancy changes are not able to be seen on a visual examination. So at that time we recommended Aldi s expose women be labeled a high risk pregnancy and be monitored very carefully during their pregnancy. 29 minutes before one choice Victor is with US president of DS action in Minnesota. Also the author of a new book called d e s daughter we're taking phone calls from listeners who have questions about d e s. I do see a liner to open in the Twin Cities to 276 thousand is the number to call outside the Twin Cities 800-652-9700 another listeners on the line. Hello. Go ahead, please I have symptoms of Bes exposure. But when we tried to get ahold of the records the doctor no longer had the record, so I'm not we don't have a definite histrionic. I know when I would had mononucleosis a doctor gave me a drug that I believe it's the best for all I know it was a hormone because my tonsils are so swollen that he thought there was some risk that I might. Suffocate in the hormone that he gave me was supposed to shut down some of my immune response so that the swelling in my throat would go down and I'm wondering if being given Sylvester all at that time. When I raise my risk of having problems with the DS service. There's anything is known about that. We really don't know. I think it's a very real concern that we hear a lot about a related concern is whether d e s exposed daughter should be on the birth control pill which does have estrogen in it. Our recommendation is that d e s daughter's not go on the birth control pill because this on since we don't know that the birth control pill does have ill effects on the daughters. We don't know that it doesn't so to be a little bit cautious. We recommend that daughters are looking to other birth control method but in your situation, I don't think anybody could really give you an answer on that. That since I have known since the doctor has doesn't have the records anymore and that I have no proof that it was even Des that I was given that there would be no point in trying to prosecute the case from your experience. Would you think that was true? Can you give any advice on that? Well, one thing I want to say first of all is that suing has been very difficult not only getting into court, but for me the process was extremely hard and I think people really have to know what they're getting into before they proceed with this a lot of women who are in your same situation. They have the ill effects that are fairly unique 2DS exposure. You don't have the records or trying to get together at least a class action suit, I think each individual has to examine whether they want to pursue this or not. Again, you can contact your local office of DS action and we can we know of some people who are trying to pursue so we could give you some names. About Des with joy spectrogram another caller on the line. You're on the air. I had a breast removed immediately when I notice a girl and since then I have been on DS why they put me on that again on one of the uses that it has been effective for is for your breast cancer preventing breast cancer. Also, it is used as a post-menopausal replacement hormone. So there are many women and are many women in their 60s and 70s who are taking this hormone again, you have to examine with your own personal physician. What are the benefits for you and taking this drug and what are the potential risk? If you have had any kind of medical condition where this can help you then, of course, you know, you need to discuss that on a personal basis with your own doctor. Okay, thank you very much for calling. We do have a couple of lines open in the Twin Cities. The number again is 227-6002 276 thousand if you have a question about d e s and outside Minneapolis-Saint Paul 800-652-9700. Another color is standing by higher on the air for books and I heard about recently that I think if you have an opportunity to read them it would be well to do so because they are things that are in the book. How do you spell books were written by a doctor whose name is? Dr. Robert S Mendelssohn. I don't know if you've heard about him or not one is called malpractice and now doctors manipulate women. That's the title of the one then the first one is called. of a medical heretic and I have gotten both of them and I am just shocked at the things that has been done to women. Yeah, I would have great familiar with the first one the Confessions of a medical heretic and I agree. I think it really is a good book again. I think you know, there are a lot of good things that happened in our Medical Care and a lot of things that are not so good what I have the size u d e s s. I think a graphic example of what has happened to women on a drug that was totally ineffective and not properly tested but I think it really is just a symbol of what has been done to all consumers in our Medical Care and I think it just emphasizes the need for all medical consumers all consumers of anything to really be aware of what you're getting into to ask questions and be more assertive in your medical care and if drugs are being put out on the market that are not properly tested or ineffective and have no benefit we should stand up and say we're not going to take this anymore and try to stand up and fight back against it today is much different than Say a generation ago that today the doctors are much more inclined to lay out for you what the benefits and risks of a particular course of treatment are and if they don't ask there if they don't tell them patients to ask I certainly hope so I know back in the fifties, you know, I certainly my mom feel so guilty. She was given this drug to eat to help save the baby and then it had these ill effects on me, but it was the times for the doctors Co gave out what the pharmaceutical companies recommended. They gave it out at that time in good faith. And my mother took it in good faith. So certainly she did nothing wrong. I think today more and more people are being more questioning doctors are being more cautious. Unfortunately, we do have instances after 1972 when the stroke was band of doctors still giving it out to pregnant women. These are rare instances, but it still points to the fact that it must be the consumer. We must be aware of what we're being given and no to ask the right questions. Are you Joyce pick for let's go to our next listener. You're on the air. the band by the Food and Drug Administration as I understand that happened in 79, but I do know that when it was being talked about as a student bag of culture many of the farmers in the area, which I live in went around buying it up drug so that they can have it for many more years. Absolutely. And I think that's a real concern we have it was supposed to be banned in being given to lice like as far as I understand the band. But again, we have lots of indications that the stroke was just bought up in large quantities so that I can continue to be you it's and we do know that as of now, I've heard a recent report that said that over a quarter of a million violations of d e s being used in cattle feed have been noted. Of course. Those are the ones we know about. It must be much higher than that. Okay. Thank you. Thank you for calling it's 21 minutes before 1. We have some telephone lines open in the Twin Cities area to 276 thousand is the number outside Minneapolis St. Paul 800-652-9700 and we have another listen to standing by here on the air should be something done. And that's why this after mental comes out to a bed cuz he was aware of a lot of things that was going on and he could just not shut his eyes and forget about it. And I was very very glad to find out about these two books because I haven't experienced recently and I'm telling you I'm having an awful lot of pain because of the abuse that I took from one doctor. Okay? Well, thank you. Anybody who has concerns really should question and he was telling me it is just terrible. Pain. I've had ever since you did that was thank you very much for calling will move on to some other callers. Now with questions specifically related to d e s Graceland, you know, we are concerned with the doctors and what happened, but with this Tes issue of the doctors who gave it out at the time, we're really following the medical practice of the time and that's why the legal issues and the concerns happened focused against the pharmaceutical companies. The law states that it really is a pharmaceutical company's obligation to properly test this drug and to give the information to the Physicians. They did not do this. So it was the Pratt Medical Practice of the times in the early fifties that the the doctors for the most part. We're giving us out in good faith. More listeners on the telephone with questions. Our next caller is standing by your on the air. on Monday other illnesses such as perhaps viroid problems nowadays. It's kind of think a lot of Stories on from individuals regarding d e s and it's it's a fax other than on the reproductive tract. What we do a DS Action. We are also part of a National Organization DS Action National we compiled this information and keep a track of every caller that comes in and states of particular concern. Hopefully this information will be researched and if there are other effects in the near future we should know about it, but there are many different concerns that are being brought up as of right now. We really don't know for sure if these effects that you mention are related to DS exposure what other symptoms might there be what other things are suspected. Oh I hesitate to say there is a lot of concern, you know, we hear about different symptoms different types of cancers, but I don't want to get people concerned about that until we really know. We do know that it causes this type of genital cancer. It seems to be pretty much limited to that in mother's there. Is that slightly increase risk of breast cancer and there's some possibility of perhaps endometrial cancer uterine cancer that type of situation but I think we're primarily focusing on its effects on the genital tract. Hello. I missed part of your introduction introductory section. So perhaps you covered this, but could you tell me the answer of Hazards for a male child some other had I think it Bears repeating cuz there's so much focus on the women and really the sons we do know are affected too. It seems that sons have some benign and structural changes such as I believe. Current figure I just read with 16% of d e s Sons do have undescended testicles in one study sample. There are changes such as a testicular cyst or smaller testes other types of benign changes the problems that were most concerned with right now is that Sons do seem to have some fertility problems and that means either abnormal sperm or low sperm count. So we're thinking as many as one-in-four d e s Sons may have problems and starting a family or it will have some kind of problem in their reproductive system is that fertility problem treatable or not means that any mail would be treated for low sperm count with the daughters. There are things that can be done if it's of pregnancy is being monitored and if a daughter starts to dilate early in her pregnancy, there is a procedure that might help in keeping the And we do hear many stories of women who have had problems have been monitored very closely and do have normal healthy children. So there are some good things that have come out of this to the telephones and our listeners with questions high are on the are easy to be dissuaded from pursuing things like that even to, you know, under ordinary circumstances to change doctors or dinner dentist or whatever. And so I feel that is as long as that people can afford the time or the resources often to get involved in legalities that they should certainly take responsibility in this mobile Society to obtain their records as they move about because that's about the best. Hope we have until there would be Some law that obtains to maintain records better than they are currently capped and I'll hang up now and listen to be more aware of where their medical records are and what is the information contained in that I get a DS Action Minnesota. We can give you information on how to get to your medical records. We also provide a lot of educational resources as well as public information programs. And we do do educational programs to community clinics and other health professionals. We also have a doctor referral and we do have regular group meetings. Most recently. We were involved in some legislation in the state of Minnesota up until this past year. The insurance companies have been discriminating against the DS exposed by either denying insurance coverage or in some cases tripling the rate for coverage when somebody try to get coverage as an individual a law was just passed to the session where that will know. Longer be possible that insurance companies can no longer discriminate against the DS exposed we have on legislation that hopefully will come up in the next session. It has already been introduced to provide for Statewide screening centers for the DS expose where you can go and get Carrie on a less expensive bases around a sliding scale basses by somebody who does know how to do this proper tests also to set up a state-funded education campaign as well as a registry for the DS exposed. So further research can be done. I'm not really with a question is going to come and dacian. I'm very very pleased with the way this is being presented today. None of the scare tactics. I had four years of fertility problems after being exposed daughter and I have a healthy 11 month old son, you know, it's not impossible and don't be afraid just keep an eye on it for it is a medical concern. Everyone should find out if they are exposed should know about it get regular care, but there are many many people that are most DS expose are healthy and well, thank you for calling preciate hearing from you this noon. We have another listener on the line high are on the air. Hi, I am have followed this whole thing with a great deal of interest and I just wondered if Joyce's Victory might turn out to be a rather lonely one because I keep hearing about attempts to. Make product liability laws less effective, and I just wonder if Joyce has any any thoughts to present on that. Well, I know there isn't a great deal of pushed and I certainly because of his victory in other instances to make the large corporations less responsible for the products. They put out and feel. It's important for every consumer. Not just the DS expose cuz this really could happen a situation this to anybody to really send letters to fight back and really I make your voices be heard through your legislators that you feel that people should be responsible for the products that they do put out. Every person is country should really start making their voices heard. Do you have any idea Joyce how many other lawsuits have been filed and how many been successful there have been a good number filed? I don't think it's been any kind of overwhelming numbers. I know I have been the first successful person in this country to come this far there have been some favorable decisions on whether people can sue in California and in Michigan is But people are waiting now. We really don't know we want to set this precedent that we can so even though we don't have the records. We have been victimized already and the fact that our records cannot be gotten really puts us in a very unfair position on the fact that the pharmaceutical companies did act in concert and none of them tested this drug powerfully. They did pull their research. They use American women is guinea pigs really makes us feel that the laws should be such that we can start to fight back on what has happened 10 minutes before we still have some time left for questions about d e s. We have more listeners on the line how you're on the air fan in the last 5 months that I've been told that when it's taken during the last five months that isn't Christmas. Yeah, it's in your information is correct. We do seem to see that the most effects are being seen when it was taken during the first four months. That doesn't mean that if it was taken in the last 4 months you have you shouldn't be concerned about it because even cases were was taken in the latter part of the pregnancy the children have shown up with some ill-effects, but certainly the the real crucial time was when it was taken during the first part of the pregnancy again, if you have questions about DS, I would recommend anyone contacting or DS Action office in Minnesota. Where at the YWCA 1130 Nicollet that's in Minneapolis. 55403 our phone number there and we do have a volunteer that staffs the office there every Wednesday is 332-0501 extension 127. I want to say to that I admire you and those of you who give your time to something like this and I hope that he has a support of the medical profession and getting information out to the people think you're actually we've been very lucky in the state. We are planning in September September 21st for doctors panel where several Physicians involved are going to speak to the public to discuss the effects of d e s and I'm certainly people want to contact DS action will give you more specific information on that. There's also a national newsletter that people can subscribe to that keeps you up-to-date on all the medical research that is coming out as well as concerns of the d e s exposed. Thank you very very much. Thank you for calling to 276 thousand is the telephone number to call today for a question on the radio with Joyce about d e s and we have that other telephone number of d e s action in Minneapolis to 276 thousand the number to call this noon is medical research continuing on this topic Choice. Absolutely almost daily on this. We're very lucky in the state of Minnesota that at the Mayo Clinic. It's one of the regional centers for DS research. There is the Des add project down there. There are four centers that are funded by the federal government on throughout the country and the Mayo is the coordinating center for the study and a lot of our information about the pregnancy problems as well as the other effects are coming out of the Mayo Clinic. We do have another caller on the line with a question about a d e s. So we'll go to our calling out how you're on the air. Eventual damages sustained as a result of that original I hesitate to answer nothing an attorney. I think there's a lot of interpretation right now in the state of Minnesota with regards to DSS exposure. And when the statue does start running again, we can help put you in touch with people who are looking into this right now. It's a concern but I have not gotten any real specific answers on that just yet. Thank you for calling we have another listener with a question about Des you're on the air. Okay, it's real interesting and it certainly is in the book. My mother had to normal pregnancies prior to her being pregnant with me her problem was that she's staying at a little bit of bleeding during the first three months of her pregnancy the doctor she went to at the time. She was pregnant with my brother and sister told her just to rest in bed to get off her feet. Take it easy what she did and she carried you normally and had normal pregnancies from the time she gave birth to my brother and the time she was pregnant with me that doctor became ill and subsequently died. The new doctor. She went to was really up on his research and had heard about this new wonder drug d e s and when she started staining a little bit with me during the first three months, he said here take this. It'll help save the baby. My mother looked at him and said thank you. She took the drug. And of course her pregnancy course was the same as it was with me as with the other two children. We know even before she was given this drug. It was known that d e s was Totally ineffective in preventing pregnant preventing miscarriage bed rest alone was more effective than taking Tes and I are on the are my husband and he has had his sperm count checked and it seems to be normal. But at the time it didn't mention that he was a fun and we were wondering about the abnormal sperm and like if I were to become impregnated by an abnormal sperm would I child be abnormal or how does it know? There's no indication. I think the after me I think if he's had his a semen analysis and that has been checked out. I don't think that they would be any more concerns in regard to that. I'll we do have no information showing that the next generation is affected by DS that it's their affected an indirect way by the miscarriages and by the premature delivery is but there's been no indication that the Tes Sons Our Father. Abnormal children as we come down to the end here Joyce just like to wrap up a couple of questions that I have remaining one is about the age of the d e s children. What is the range in age that are affected potentially buy this for pregnancy in 1972. So we're talkin about DS expose children being as young as nine and it wasn't being given out until 1941. So the age ranges 92401 the highest incidence incidence is of cancer occur in the late teens and early twenties. Although we do know that cancers have a Curtis youngest 7 and as late as age 31 in their late 20s early 30s and on up to on a 41 presumably there are some offspring of d e s daughters. Is there any correlation there? Okay, we don't know that The Offspring, you know born to these women have any ill effects on them. So yeah, there's no indication that it is directly affecting that generation but they've been so few numbers women are having children later. And because Des daughters are having problems with pregnancy. There aren't enough numbers to have any good studies on that just yet. So probably well. I think we have one more call her and time for one brief question one brief answer how you're on the air. I have a fifteen-year-old daughter in about 14 days with the medication is a birth control pill or what it's hard to say. We've heard a called Everything when we get reports from the mothers on the EOS had been used in some birth control medications, but I get it now and it is used at the morning after pill to interrupt a pregnancy. I would have been just try to get your records and have your children go for a regular examination. Thank you for calling and thank you Joyce picture for coming in and spending your new number with us today. Thank you for having me about 2DS. Joystick for a victim of cancer some nine years ago successfully fought that successfully sue the manufacturer of the drug and now the author of a new book called. Yes daughter Joyce picture is also the president of the Minnesota chapter of d e s action.