(00:00:09) Good morning, and welcome to Spectrum for Saturday, September 22nd. I'm rich Deaton and st. Paul and today on Spectrum. We hear about Minneapolis history about how the community Grew From a settlement at st. Anthony Falls to a city of three quarters of a million people will hear about the people who settled here in the 1800's as well as about those who are still settling here in the late 1970s will get to our program right after we take a brief look at weather information at nine o'clock in the Twin Cities. Sunny skies, 53 degrees Fahrenheit. That's 12 above Celsius in st. Cloud at nine. Mostly sunny and 47 Fahrenheit. That's eight above Celsius and in Rochester at last report mostly sunny and 50 degrees Fahrenheit that's 10 above on the Celsius scale the forecast for the Twin Cities region for today calls for mostly clear skies through tomorrow. The high temperatures today are expected to be in the upper 60s and the lows tonight in the mid-40s highs on Sunday will range in the lower 70s. This fall the Minneapolis Public Library System begins in ambitious three-year project to explore the quality of life in Minneapolis. The project called Minneapolis portrait of a lifestyle was launched last Saturday. And the first phase will continue through November the project features tours lectures and discussions of many aspects of the city's history this morning. We've assembled in our studio for participants in the portrait of a lifestyle program. Our guests are Marcela Trujillo and instructor of Chicano studies at the University of Minnesota and commissioner of the Minneapolis Housing and Redevelopment Authority also with us his father Alan Moss pastor of Our Lady of Lourdes parish in Minneapolis Our Lady of Lourdes incidentally is the oldest continuously functioning church building in Minnesota. Also in the studio is Larry Engels. Mr. Ingels works for General Mills and is also head librarian for the Minnesota branch of the genealogical library of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints. And finally with this is Tom trow. Mr. Troy is an archaeologist for the Minnesota Historical Society. He's a native of Minneapolis and he knows a good deal about the early history of Minneapolis and thank you for being with me this morning Tom. I'd like to begin by asking you some questions about Minneapolis how the city got started. I've read stories that seem to conflict some that some seem to indicate that the city really got its start at Fort Snelling which is Downstream of bit from where the city is located now and other people will argue will know it started at st. Anthony Falls. Where did it really get started argue that it started even long before Fort Snelling was established that what really Drew people into the area was originally the fur trade going on in what was then the Northwest the farthest reaches of the frontier of America in the 17th and 18th centuries when the voyagers came out and establish fur trade posts in the economy of the fur trade set the pace for this region. I would say that that's what attracted the American government to. Was sending officials out in 1805 to buy what became the Military Reservation Fort Snelling the junction of the Mississippi and Minnesota River South of Minneapolis out by the airport was the ideal location for controlling the traffic on the river. And of course the rivers were the freeways of their day so that that was the logical place for the Fort and it was really from there that settlement began the Military Reservation was off-limits to settlers and yet people still came and squatted on the lands and developed an interest in getting the legal right to have their permanent home there. So they petitioned the government and finally won the right to own land in what had been the Military Reservation on both the west side and the East sides of the Mississippi River. When was all of this happening. This is in the early 18th century Fort Snelling was established in 1819. And the east side of the river was opened up in the 1830s mid-1830s and finally the west side which had Fort Snelling on it also was opened up in the 1840s now that Westside included what is now downtown, Minneapolis. And the east side is what we now call South East Minneapolis. So there was a settlement running all the way up the river. No. No, there was a road running all the way up the river but really the early settlers were interested in establishing themselves at the false so that when that land first opened up there was a rush to the falls themselves though. It was early recognize that the Falls were a prime piece of real estate because of the water power available there. So come the day when the United States government announced that that land would be open to public settlement. There was a rush in the middle of the night and Franklin steel according to Legends. Anyway, made it up the river first in the middle of the night with a prefabricated house that he constructed with the help of some Indians and friends and was already there by the next morning when the major from the fort the commandant showed up with his crew to establish his claim on the same piece of land. So that was how Franklin steel became our founding father. So before that time there weren't any white people living up at Opportunity Anthony Falls at least a no one instinct. No claim not there. There'd been a mission established by whites the Pain Brothers over Lake Calhoun and there'd been some efforts at settlement as I say by squatters who come down from a Canadian settlement that had failed by 1820. But other than that, no there weren't any really there weren't any white structures other than a government Grist Mill and lumber mill at The Falls themselves until that steel claim was made was the Minneapolis area the area we know now is Minneapolis and Indian settlement or certainly for many thousands of years Indians have been attracted to the falls the Falls of course have been moving Upstream for all of these thousands of years and their location has changed as the the falls and cells had been eroding backward but always they had attracted settlement and even when Jonathan Carver was here in 1766, he in his drawing of the falls included an Indian village at apparently Dakota Village right where the post office and the old train People are and work in Downtown Minneapolis Hennepin Avenue. One thing that's I think worth clarifying is that Southeastern side of the river that was developed first was a town into itself called Saint Anthony and Minneapolis was a good ten years before it began development. So st. Anthony had a flying Head Start it was thought to have the better opportunity. It was expected that that would be the large city and that it would be the competitor for st. Paul which was also of course growing since the establishment of a small Church in 1841, so that st. Anthony and Minneapolis were rival cities when Minneapolis first started developing and we're not linked until 1872 which was quite late. Something happened. Didn't it between those two cities the that and 111 side lost and the other side one. I have a vague recollection of a newspaper wore something that went on between the two service strong feelings on both sides as to who was going to absorb the other and Minneapolis. Just simply by The fact that it has a larger population at the time that it finally happened won the right to to be the city. So even though our Saint Anthony got started before Minneapolis at lost out it lost out Minneapolis actually had some attracting features that Saint Anthony didn't have it at the Lakes District out to the South. It had a lot more available land at the time of the earliest land boom in the 1850s people rushed into what was called Bridge Square, which is now oh down by where that were Hennepin Avenue Nicollet used to meet there's now an insurance building in The Towers Apartments down there that area was settled fast and there was a lot of available land so people moved in quickly to that land and consequently the population simply increased on the Minneapolis. I'd also the Milling District had more room to expand on the Minneapolis side of the river the west side of the river so that gave many apples and economic lift and an advantage over st. Anthony. So it was a real Boom Town at least for a while. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah in fact Done the city itself in once it combined with st. Anthony Minneapolis for instance in 1870 was a town including the st. Anthony side with the town of 18,000 people Ten Years Later. It was a town of 47,000 people which is a three-fold increase in just ten years five years later. It nearly tripled Again by 1885. There were a hundred and twenty seven thousand people. So it was a definitely a boom period there between the late 1860's after the Civil War on up in the 1890s Tom tro of the Minnesota Historical Society. I want to come back to you in a bit and talk more about the early history of the city, but I also want to hear a little bit about the people who came here in the people who settled here and father Alan Moss of Our Lady of Lourdes in Minneapolis will be talking about that later on this fall in the Minneapolis Public Library series of lectures on Minneapolis father Moss who were some of the people who settled here what brought them to Minneapolis. Well, I think Franklin Steel Others who wrote to the east about the great Pine Woods that had been discovered between the st. Croix River and the Mississippi River a vast Pine re which they thought would last forever and provide an unlimited supply of lumber brought a great number of people from New England and also the a group of from French Canada came down because they were experienced and living in the woods and and by the fact also that they had heard about the the area through their Parish priests that been in contact with people that had come down here and they began to pick up and come to the work in the woods and others settled at st. Anthony and they will be the little village of Saint Anthony. They settled in what is now mainly in the area called Northeast Minneapolis along the river where the Sawmills were springing. Up and they worked in the Sawmills build a hotel in one place started some stores and then there's some of the other nationalities began to fill in and around them but they are there was there was the the group of new englanders settled mainly in Southeast Minneapolis the First Congregational Church the present Church of Our Lady of Lourdes, which was originally the first Universalist Church was made up of people from New England and then the Parish of Saint Anthony of Padua was the Catholic parish and that was established. They were having Mass there as early as eighteen forty seven and that was incorporated in 18-49 and with with a french-speaking community and gradually other nationalities moved into the area Irish and Scottish Catholics some Scottish Catholics from Canada and The parish became bilingual and then eventually by the Civil War. They had an Irish pastor and a French cure it and soon the old story of people wanting their own language and heating the words of the parish Priests of Quebec that if you lose your language, you lose your faith. And so by 1877 the old first Universalist Church was up for sale and they purchased it and started a French Community Church, but they wanted became a Catholic Church. Yes, but it was a it was mainly the new englanders and the French Canadians that are thought to be amongst the first or families like the old Nelson family from Scotland had started their Mill a hundred years ago and other families individual by national. I was mainly the new englanders in the French Canadians that made up the largest group of original sin. Players Tom troll mentioned a few minutes ago that one of the first groups of people to come to Minneapolis was a group from a settlement that didn't work out somewhere in Canada was that did a lot of people come to Minneapolis that you know of from either settlements in other parts of the new world that weren't working or that we're working but too big or groups that just came here to start their own communities and by that, I mean more than just a family coming in to say start a business or or start plowing the land or something. Yes. There were people in community. I are you thinking of the Pembina? Yes, the Selkirk the Selkirk settlement large part sell Kurt's experiment that went down from up in what Manitoba it's at the junction of the North Dakota, Minnesota and Canadian borders on the Red River Valley occur. That would well there were subtler that came and there were also people in the war in the East Grand Forks area. There was a large Scottish. Irish contingent from the Ottawa Valley that's in you find the names from that area here in Minneapolis. And actually last name Murray's for instance and O'Brien they may not it may not sound like it but there were a group of names that are common to the Ottawa Valley that are found the East Grand Forks and then as time went on many of these settlement areas such as the Western settlements of Archbishop Ireland where they did come from some of the at least some of the areas we were towns were settled by people like the fishermen that settled out near Beardsley and Grace Vuitton from Ireland or the Belgian settlements many of the people did come from the same area. And in Northeast Minneapolis, it's interesting to note that you find almost the entire. Provinces of Austria-Hungary represented by the different ethnic churches the ruthenians and they Carpe through Russians the Slovak sex and the Polish come in all of them mainly from what was the former provinces of the austro-hungarian Empire? What happened to those people who did come here as a part of a community. We don't at least I don't know of many that have maintained any sort of identity through the last hundred a hundred and fifty years where they pretty much absorbed into the the I don't know you're still here people Rich that our love for instance polish families that are from the same their grandparents or great grandparents came from the same Village in Poland. They still correspond with their relatives. They both still belong to the same Parish church, or if they've moved to other parts of the city they come back for the Goals and see each other and talk about the news from the old country that they've heard from some distant cousins of theirs. I'd like to talk more about that, but I want to talk to Marcela Trujillo for a few minutes. Good morning, Emily Marcela teaches the Chicano studies at the University of Minnesota and it's my understanding that there is a fairly large population of Chicano people in the Twin Cities and we were talking on the phone yesterday briefly and I think you mentioned that people of Spanish descent were coming to Minneapolis and st. Paul as early as the 1890s. (00:15:40) That's correct. And first person to come here in 1890 was a musician from Mexico who was playing the symphony. I used in today's terms to be called a Defector. He liked it so much. He stayed and The Great Wave of immigration though came after 1910 the revolution of 1910 and many of the Mexicans settled in around. St. Paul because of the fact that there's a church there as father Moss has pointed out if you was if you have a church you have some kind of identity. Yes, you have some kind of concentration around that church there about 24,000 and st. Paul and 14,000 in Minneapolis. But in throughout the state of Minnesota, we number the largest minority 50,000 two years ago. So the census figures that people are picking up or not. Correct? I don't think that there will be an accurate Census count until 1980. Most of the people have come up from Texas to the migrant stream for the industry and the agricultural facilities that Minnesota has to offer them (00:16:48) where they coming through that route as early as the 30s as you mentioned or the 1910s. (00:16:53) Yes, and they still are coming. As a matter of fact a relatively little has changed in all that time. They're still coming up to the migrant stream and settling here because of the He's not because of the climate but he's a very brave people that come up with sandals from Texas and Mexico and then stay for Generations. But because of the quality of life and the employment opportunities and educational opportunities, they find Minnesota very lucrative place to settle him. (00:17:23) So there were Minnesota Farmers using migrant laborer as early as the 1910s 1920s (00:17:30) evidently is this is true. They came up through the for the shoe sugar beet industry in northern Minnesota and to work on the Railroad and other crops that Minnesota grows, but in the 1930s a lot of them faced deportation a lot of naturalized citizens, and this was true throughout the country those who are on welfare had to go back or face the possibility of getting their checks cut off and they tried to they did report even a lot of say native-born Americans into Mexico who are on the welfare rolls and this happened also in st. Paul and when was that and during the 1930s during the Depression and thanks to Chicano story ends. Now that type of history is being written in brought out and st. Paul has been mentioned as one of the cities that did (00:18:23) this and you say that because they're one of the reasons the main reasons that st. Paul has a larger population of Chicanos is because of the church and the religion that was more easily identified in st. Paul and (00:18:38) Minneapolis, right? The Chicano population in Minneapolis has identified with various churches around the neighborhood st. Joseph's for example, which is now been obliterated, you know, I mean has been destroyed and for rehabbing the area and the new highway that is going through there was a concentration around Plymouth and Lyndale in the 30s and the housing God condemned for New highway which is just going through so consequently in Minneapolis were all dispersed throughout the city and we've kind of United around central cultural Chicano the only Hispanic Center that we have in Minneapolis and we're still looking for a church by the way, (00:19:20) Larry Engels a genealogist who must have lots of stories to tell about people who've come to him and wanted to know where their Roots were people who live in Minneapolis live in the Twin Cities tell us about some of those people and what they come looking for what they asked you for. Well as has been mentioned before the rivers the industry the settlements and farming and everything. You've brought a great deal of different kinds of people a more or less like a Melting Pot so to speak and As people become or curious about their background, they hear grandparents and so forth talk about their places of living in the Old Country the people start becoming interested in searching out some of these stories and finding out if their fact or fiction and it's become quite interesting people will come into their our library and we'll ask for example, they'll give a grandfather's name and we'll say we'd like to get a copy of his background thinking that we have all these various histories already printed and all we have to do is reach up on a shelf and pull one down and these records just aren't that way in our library. For example, we probably have about 40 or 50 printed histories that people have contributed to that. I've went through all the years of research and put together their families. However, most of our records that we have are on microfilm and deal with foreign countries. We do have some records available a good many records available in the United States. We try to stay away from Minnesota because of the historical society's collection of Minnesota History. We try to put people there but the majority of the people that are interested in our library facilities are those that come from all Scandinavian countries. For example, Central Europe Great Britain the British Isles, we're getting some now from from Italy hungry. We're getting a few people that are interested in Russian history that have a Russian background and we should mention that the that your major resources the Mormon Church's yes big library at Salt Lake City. Yes, they contain at the present time about a million and a quarter roles of microfilm, which are about a hundred feet long. And of course usually on these hundred foot rolls are at least a thousand names or maybe more. So if you're quick mathematician, you can kind of put together how many names are available. There are approximately 40 microfilming Crews throughout the world at this time. I think at the present time about for microfilming crews in Poland that are putting together microfilming. The vital records are the records that the custodians of the different archives a lot on microfilm and putting these together and are sending into Salt Lake City about a approximately 60,000 rolls of film a year. And so that gives us access to more and more coverage of the people throughout the world are the steps generally the same Larry in that the person would take no matter what their ethnic background in tracing or starting to trace their. Yes. You always start with yourself no matter what color your skin or what your background might be whether you can. English or not. We always have the patron start with himself put down themselves and the information about them. We have standard forms that we use we start first with a pedigree form which gives the a direct bloodline the same kind of a sheet that you would use form that you would probably use if you were going to purchase a dog or a cat or whatever and you put down in your parents and your grandparents your great-grandparents and you just keep going back as far as you can and I want to just something that might be a little of Interest those listening today, you know, each generation we go back are our ancestors double in that generation. For example, we have two parents and four grandparents eight great-grandparents, but when you get back about oh 18 or 20 Generations, if we find out that we're not related to ourselves in this time, we can have well over a million ancestors and that's not counting aunts and uncles and and cousins and stuff in there. This is direct bloodline people. And so it it gets to be quite an involved situation. A lot of people when they get back to the old country for example and find out a little bit they become kind of disenchanted because the records are a little bit harder to come by for particular areas because of the wars and stuff that they have had a lot of Records. There's there's gaps in the records that are available and the people were concerned living in those countries were concerned greatly about the records being destroyed and so on the various Wars came along the disrupted this type of living the people would gather their records and barium or whatever and once in a while now and the rebuilding is some of these cities in parts of Europe. Some of these records are being uncovered not too well preserved because we didn't have the fine Plastics and all the other waterproof things to you know, wrap them in but they are being discovered and It's really remarkable amount of records that are being made available to be microfilmed and and we have access to our library and there's also the LDS library Mormon library and st. Paul has access to the same films that we have in Minneapolis. I'm sure that when we get some calls from listeners that there will be more questions about increasing ones Roots, but I want to go back to Tom tro for a minute and perhaps Jump Ahead maybe several decades from where we were a few minutes ago and talking about how the City of Minneapolis got started question that I have is what happened to the city when when the lumbering industry fell off when all of the pine stands were depleted or nearly depleted up north and when the there were there wasn't much or any Lumber anymore for the Sawmills along the Mississippi what happened to the city at that time. Was that a real crisis for the city or or did it to And take it in stride. That was a gradual decline in it. Hmm. It happened. I would say before the actual decline of the Milling industry. So there was there were still some some quantity of jobs to absorb the shift in Manpower resources, but I think you could Mark that as the end of the era of the boom period of development of the when we have any appleís. Well towards towards the end of the 19th century into the turn of this Century certainly by and by 1910 the the force were fairly well depleted. I mean they 50 years of constant lumbering is a long time and that had wiped out the forests Along The Rum River and points further north and all along the st. Croix have been numbered Stillwater it seen a period as a Boomtown and because of the lumbering Industries and I'd say all of that came to a halt by 1910 still the Minneapolis had developed a reputation. In the East and in Europe as a good place to come to find jobs. And so we still were absorbing immigrants well after that period and simply didn't have the jobs for them. I think that might get credit for the development of but the Bohemian Flats area. It's kind of a well-known little spot along the Minnesota River Mississippi River on the West Bank side of the University of Minnesota campus. It's now a parking lot but it used to be a large community of immigrants who were in a sense squatters. I don't believe that Land Titles down there but it was an enormous community and well knit and I think that absorb the immigrants that came into the area I would like to invite listeners to give us a call at this time to ask some questions of our guests were talking about Minneapolis history and our guests in the studio are all participants in a Minneapolis Public Library sponsored program called portrait of a lifestyle and they will be Going to lectures and participating in discussions throughout this fall on the City of Minneapolis. If you'd like to ask them a question any one or all of them, you can call us this morning in Minneapolis or st. Paul at 221155062211550. And if you're listening to us outside the Twin Cities, but in Minnesota, you can call us toll-free at 1-800-695-1418. The Twin Cities number is 2211550 and outside Minneapolis st. Paul. It's 1-800-695-1418 a question from a listener father Moss a few minutes ago. We were talking about the settlers who came here to stay in Minneapolis. What about the people who didn't stay what what happened to them how there was a very fine group of Norwegian philosophers musicians and Poets who came to Minneapolis and Worked out a method of giving Norway its independence and they used to they lived here for quite a few years. This was the perhaps the heart and center of a Norwegian intellectual life and one nor we gained its independence. They went home so they left nor wind out Norway with all her genius genius. Hmm. So they had left Norway to get away from political system. They weren't very pleased with. Yes, that would be one group that left other others just one as groups. I can't write off hand. Think of any other major group that returned home individuals did people and back to Sweden or Norway or to Ireland, but And some with Specialties that were no longer needed as the pine trees disappeared like lumbermen and so I went on they went on to the West Tom troll was this a major stopping-off point for people. Are you mentioned earlier that a lot of people came here for jobs would a person in Boston the coming onshore from somewhere in Europe of in what kind of word what you've heard or if you've heard about Minneapolis to a place to settle place to raise a family or a place to just to make a quick buck and hit on West I think there was excellent PR in the 1800's for Minneapolis largely in in the 1860s. It was related to health Minneapolis was touted as having such fine weather and just the ideal place to settle if you're having any kind of health problem and that attracted from the East a great number of rich people actually butter like the Phoenix of the north. Well, yeah, as a matter of fact it was Was touted as some sort of paradise on the recent issue of the Minnesota History magazine has letters written back to a Pennsylvania newspaper by a traveler out here and in telling his readers how great Minneapolis has when it comes to discussing the climate. He does mention that he's only seen Minneapolis in the summer. But as far as he knows the climate is wonderful. So the immigrants coming in would hear that sort of thing. Now there was also actually a man in the 1870s and 1880s who wrote ads for Norwegian newspapers. I imagine they may have had other people doing similar things and for other countries inviting immigrants to come in So there was that there was an effort to attract people active PR. We have a number of listeners on the phone right now. So we'll go to listener right now. Good morning. Our guests are listening for your question. (00:31:26) All right. I've had a question. In fact Thomas just been speaking about the basic idea of my question. I started recently reading about American immigrant history. And it seems as though there's a real bitter controversy between on one hand say Oscar Hanlon saying that the immigrants gradually assimilated all of all of them from each country at roughly the same pattern roughly the same rate yet. There's a new way that seems of historians were saying that social Mobility is largely a myth that people who come from certain class background tend to stay in that class background with only about a 20% per generation growth out of that particular class into a higher one. Now. What I'm wondering is is this an East Coast Urban phenomena or Is there something in Minneapolis has and we're going to experience that would reflect on (00:32:19) this. Tom troll I'm hoping I'll get some help on this too. But I would say that in Minneapolis. They're genuinely were opportunities. If you simply take a walk through the neighborhoods and ask your neighbors about their grandparents, you'll see that there's been a lot of upward Mobility going on for the last 80 years the area that I mentioned the Bohemian Flats down along the Mississippi River near the West Bank was really a temporary stopping point people would move in there and move out as soon as they could as soon as they could afford to that work hard on the on the ground above the flats and buy a house up there as soon as possible. I think that maybe more so than in the East Minneapolis did have land room to expand Minnesota had opportunities for people there were a lot of small communities throughout the state many of which had their ethnic core still intact and had in fact foreign language essentially foreign language newspapers. That was a Thing that would attract a person from Europe to that particular community and there again there were opportunities and if you travel throughout rural Minnesota, you'll find a great number of people whose whose parents spoke very little English and that's so we're just we're just one generation removed from that experience. But I'd say that Minnesota in many ways fulfilled the promise not quite come to everyone's dreams but still it wasn't entirely a false promise of hope Marcela Trujillo. I want you to respond to a to from the point of view of Chicano people. If they experience that same kind of upward mobility in Minneapolis say that someone from Norway or or England might have (00:34:01) no I I tend to agree with a lot of listeners perspective and probably that some reason the reason that people some people can isolate better than others is that if you come from a white Anglo-Saxon Protestant background and from the same racial stock regardless of the country you came from in Western Europe. It is easier easier to see Wait, then people of color which is generally a trend in all of the United States in 90 years that have spandex have started to come here. The Minnesota does offer many opportunities, but primarily those can be gained through education. They do not have a solid economic background or base such as other nationalities have in Minnesota. So in 90 years little has changed for people in the migrant stream (00:34:51) and are you saying it's what they were able to what the migrants were able to bring to this area from where they came or what this area was able to do (00:35:00) for them. That's right. The area was able to do for them. It's still doing for them providing employment for fighting education. Although the educational attainment here is not as high for Hispanics as it is as it is for other people and you know whose fault that is I don't know. It's just that the attrition rate. Oh, hi both in the secondary school levels and in the University that perhaps with bilingual education, which is relatively new to the area. We can graduate more people and get them on this road to Upward Mobility, but it's not there for us right now. (00:35:38) I was going to say to of that the railroads played a great part in dispersing some of these people throughout the state. They actually went to Norway and Sweden in two different countries and recruited the people to come and settle this country who went to while the people from aerial to see the government would would Grant the railroads large tracts of land if they would build a railroads. Well, the railroads didn't have any place to go and he towns to go to until those towns were settled. And so the railroads being given the the mineral rights in the water rights and in the full rights of the land was a great. Opportunity for members great riches there, but it had to be harvested and so they would recruit people from countries that at probably that particular time. We're going through some of the trials and tribulations within that country that the people were having some hard times and the whole families would come and of course the waterways at that time were the main mode of transportation coming in through Canada up the Mississippi River and so forth into this area and as they reached Minneapolis and st. Paul which was the stopping off point at that time the railroads in planning direction or a Spur would say the land in such and such an area is open for settlement and land was given to these these families to settle it I was working with one fella that was Swedish descent that his grandparents came and It was 50 miles west of Minneapolis. And of course when you get a group of people from a very from a country establishing their culture and so forth and knitting together, then these towns more or less become and stay with this type of ethnic background. And so the railroads played a great part in the development of the whole country. So it sounds like you would agree. Generally at least that that there really was some some that the idea of upward Mobility is the the caller were raised that question really was here and may still be to some extent for here. I also agree with the perspective he voiced about the East so I'm both Trends were visible I'd say in Minnesota simultaneously, but let's just say there was a larger percentage of opportunity out here at the time. We have listeners on the line waiting. Let's go to another one right now. Good morning. You're on the air. Hello, we're listening for your (00:38:16) question. Oh, yeah, I want to know if you had if any of the panel had anything on the history of the Chute square area, which is across the room East Gate Shopping Center. (00:38:25) Shoot Square Tom troll. That's a the highest piece of land over on the Southeast side of the river and it's just right above Main Street. So it's a piece of land that was looked at very early and very quickly grabbed up the what used to be there now is of Coca Cola Company Plant in years previous to that was the building called the Minneapolis Exposition Hall that was built in the 1870s it how's the 1892 presidential Republican nomination convention and prior to that. The land was used by hotel is called the Winslow House Hotel. There's a new condominium going up in that neighborhood near Our Lady of Lourdes church. That's going to be called the Winslow House named after the hotel built in 1857 which stood until the early 18th. Enemies, which is a particular particularly vibrant spot in early many. It was a beautiful view. In fact our earliest photographs of the area done in 1857 by Upton our rooftop Panorama from six stories above the ground done on the six storeys above shoot Square down on the roof of the Winslow House Hotel. It's an interesting spot a commanding view of the falls and of Downstream. So this is an area now, that would be just on the North or sort of Aid what North East Bank of the Mississippi River there. Well, I'm thinking of the Coca-Cola Bottling plant that you see is just to your left as you go over the Central Avenue Bridge. That's right. That's right. And technically that's still Southeast Minneapolis, but between Central Avenue and East Hennepin, okay, the time is 20 minutes before 11 o'clock and you're listening to a discussion of Minneapolis history, and we're inviting you to call in questions about Minneapolis and its history. We have a panel in the studio who can probably answer your question some experts on Subject. Our number in the Twin Cities is 22115502211550. And we have a listener on the line. Let's hear from you. Good morning. (00:40:26) Good morning. I was wondering if you could tell me when the Jewish Community First got started and what contributions they may have made to the early history of the city. (00:40:36) anybody for much of the Jewish population or friends of mine who have listened to their fathers and grandfathers talked about coming over from Russia or Romania Hungary and Poland seem seem to have come at about the same time that others in that in the same country began the Trek over here this this does not qualify me as a expert opinion, but from hearsay and from a little bit of reading, it seems that many of the people the Jewish families that settled on the North side had Had come over during the Great tide from the austro-hungarian Empire days when immigration was allowed and and so they that wouldn't include people all the way into parts of modern-day rumania, which would have been what date-wise ruffa weapon puta. There was certainly some heavy Jewish immigration for having 1880 90s nerd turn of the century and mostly from the Eastern Europe and from good number Russia Germans and also some Germans be there seemed to have been several. Predominant groups of German speaking gibberish people and and then people that are and yiddish-speaking people from Eastern Europe. Okay, very good. We have more listeners on the line. Let's go to another one right now. Good morning. We're listening for your (00:42:08) question. I'd like to ask a little bit about the man who represents the Mormon Church genealogy group about the teams working in Poland. I wondered if he knew what cities or areas they were working (00:42:25) in not really I suppose that we could get that information if we would write Salt Lake but it's in areas mostly that are largely populated and where those that are keeping the archives will let the cruise into microfilm. Although the government of Poland is opened up the country to let the the teams in it depends a great deal upon the those that are In charge of keeping the records of where they'll let them do the microfilming. And so to give you the exact location of where the teams are at this time. I can't say if this woman wanted to perhaps in. Well, first of all, I should ask you is there any idea of when some of this microfilming might be completed? Well, I imagine it'll go on for a number of years, but she would want to stop into either one of our libraries that we have either one in st. Paul are ours in Minneapolis and will help her fill in our reference question here to the descent into Salt Lake that we can find out if there are microfilm and what is available in the particular area that she might be interested in it's conceivable that they need that information could all be could already be some there. There is a goodly number of stuff that is already available from Poland for example, right now the as of 31st of August 1978. There are a little over 10,000 roles of microfilm available on Poland. So there's With more being added every month. There's probably considerably a great deal more and what is available. We'd have to send in a question here and find out Larry of people listening want to get in touch with you at the library where you work. How can they do that? They can call our number There is five. Four four. 247954424790 K & R hours that the library is open is Monday Tuesday and Thursday from 9 in the morning 2:00 3:00 in the afternoon. And then we have three evenings Wednesday Thursday and Friday evening from 7:00 to 10:00 p.m. Okay, and they can call you up or they asked that by and in making out these reference questionnaires we would like to have them actually stopped by and so we can sit and talk with them. Our staff is all volunteers that work in the library and and we're really quite busy at there at the library when its open and To be able to take time and actually do work for somebody else or take the time to look things up. We just don't have the time and so we like to have the people that are interested to come in and and to spend a little time with us and we can work with them that way and other than is there a cost other than the charge for the microfilm of swimming one is already know. There's no charge for using the readers to read the microfilm on they can come and use the readers while we're open. We do have the forms they're available at cost if they so desire to use the standard forms that are available or if they want to use a notebook or whatever you want to record their information in that's up to them. But we do make available the best there is on the right there material in. All right. Thank you. There are more listeners on the line. Let's go to another one right now. Good morning. We're listening for your question. Hello. (00:45:48) Yes. I'm interested in the development of seen him in development or expansion of Saint Anthony Village into a crossed into Nicolas Island and also the lower Looper Minneapolis (00:45:59) time tro. Can you handle that one? Are you interested? Maybe you could ask a slightly more specific question. I'm not sure exactly what our that you're interested in. How does it happen that look at liquid. I don't became developed. Well, it's just an expansion of Saint Anthony Village. It was maintained as a wooded area. It was the last little piece of woods for a number of years and Minneapolis side of the river as I say began its development in the 18 late 1840s 1850s. And st. Anthony was already well under way on the other side, but in the old views that will photographs taken in those periods. You can you can see the transition is the island fills up with Lumber piles as the the trees go down in the buildings go up. It was I think that's the best way to express it that it was just a matter of expansion from the shorelines and then The one-half the Upstream half of the island was settled by houses some of which are still there today. And then the lower half of course was heavily developed for a number of years and it's still being developed in some people's opinion. At least there are some changes going on or a great number of changes in planned now by the riverfront commission to convert portions of the area into a park and to preserve some of the houses that are still remaining after all these years. Okay 13 minutes before 11 o'clock and we have some people in the studio this morning talking about Minneapolis history and we have some listeners on the line who have some questions and we'll go to another one right now. Good morning. We're listening for your question. (00:47:28) Do any of the panelists have any information about Colonel William King and his impact on the early history of the city. I noticed that the sword neighborhood of Minneapolis is having historical celebration next weekend based on what was called the Kings Fair. (00:47:43) The Kings fair was a Fairground bordered on the North by Franklin Avenue one side approximately by 24th Avenue and extended down a few blocks to the south in that sewer neighborhood. That's over by the Mississippian south of Franklin Avenue. That wasn't working lived a king is the Man For Whom Kings Highway is named which is now an extension of do pot Avenue south over by Lake Calhoun Colonel King came into the area and built his home. He was the second owner of the east shore of Lake Calhoun and bought a great deal of land over there. He had a large estate that's now Lakewood Cemetery in a portion of residential South Minneapolis his farm and farm buildings and house and all were in the area. That's approximately Thirty Fifth and Bryant just enormous tract of land. But of course at the time he settled he was outside of the Twin City Limits. I'll grab the Minneapolis limits. I might say too that the Seward fair is a week from today in that in that neighborhood and it's A large day-long reenactment of some of the events that occurred during Bill Kings fair in the 1880s Bill. Kingsbere finally folded. It was in competition with the state fair and people simply weren't going to support both simultaneously every year and so should this was a man who sort of had his own private fair or private in the sense that he organized it and he was a I think you could say he was a well-loved Community member and it was in the spirit of the community that he established the fairgrounds and there was a large racetrack there. That was very popular was the spot where Dan Patch became famous and it was it was certainly business venture for Bill King, but he he got on the good side of the community by doing it, too. Okay, very interesting. We're listening and we're looking for more questions. We have a couple of listeners on the line and we have at least one line open. And if you have a question about Minneapolis history, you can call us at 2 2 1 1 5 5 0 and we'll go to another listener right now. Good morning. You're on the air. (00:49:51) Good morning. This isn't specifically Minneapolis history, but it is about Brooklyn Center in Brooklyn Park when we came here from New York some years ago. I was amused and amazed to hear that Brooklyn had been here or someone in here is that indeed how the names came about which you (00:50:06) know, Tom troll is shaking his head. No as any cat videos. No father Moss. No one. Nobody knows (00:50:13) it doesn't look like it where shall I go to look II have done some research on other things about Minneapolis city, but I don't really know where to check that one (00:50:21) out. Nice to meet with with autumns book on Minnesota place names. (00:50:26) No. All (00:50:27) right, that's that's something that any of you libraries will have it. All right, simply called Minnesota place names and there is a breakdown of Minneapolis street names. And I don't recall reading about Brooklyn Park in it, but you may find it there. All right, thank you. I was going to say too long with that same thing that the historical society which covers just about all aspects of Minnesota History at 690 Cedar Street right across from the capital might have an answer to that as well. Okay, let's go to another listener. Good morning. We're waiting for your question. Good morning. (00:50:57) Good morning. I have a head in front of me a nice large colored advertising Minnesota Orchard Gardens place that you can buy for just 35 cents a day by a nice farm for yourself. I'm wondering if any of your guests. Can tell me something about the location of Minnesota Orchard Gardens and maybe elaborate a little more on some of that kind of development that led to the expansion of the Twin Cities (00:51:23) area. How old is that (00:51:24) ad from 1910 or (00:51:26) 1911? We may have to turn that question over to the listeners. That's that's not familiar to me. Do you have an idea of where Minnesota Orchard Gardens he is or was (00:51:36) all the only specific mentioned on the add our 15 miles or 40 minutes from Minneapolis on the electric railroad. Now, I'm not even sure where the electric railroad was (00:51:46) could have been to the West turn them on I would guess to the westward. It's our Minnetonka. Yeah. Yeah, they Minneapolis limits were considerably smaller than and I think what you're holding is an example of the pr. I was mentioning which came into the 20th century stone full bloom to attract people to the area. There was an electric Railway going out to Excelsior and it stopped there was a Cedar Lake Station was the of the first stop outside of Minneapolis was at Cedar Lake. Of course. It's now in Minneapolis. Well, perhaps somebody else who's listening can help us out about with regard to where the Minnesota Orchard Gardens were where you could get land for only 35 cents a day. We have more listeners on the I also want to give out the phone number at least one more time. It's 22115502211550. And we have some guests in the studio this morning who are answering questions about the history of Minneapolis and we'll go to another listener right now. Good morning. You're on the air. (00:52:45) Thank you. I have a diary of my grandfather written in 1856 and he speaks of arriving in St. Paul by stage and stopping at the Minneapolis house now. Have you any idea where that one? (00:53:02) I'm trying to figure out where he was coming from that he would have passed through Minneapolis. (00:53:06) He was coming from New York State and he came by way of bolt up to st. Paul and they went to Minneapolis and they were heading for Eau Claire, Wisconsin. This is where they stopped overnight and my grandmother got yelling. So they stayed several days (00:53:24) are right. The steamboat would have dropped him off at the Landing. That's still the Steamboat Landing in st. Paul and then he would have oh he was way down there. (00:53:31) Okay. Morning on September 6th and September 7th arrived at st. Paul about noon took the stage for Minneapolis arrived there for p.m. Stops too many episodes. So that's a reference (00:53:46) that would have meant that he needed to cross the suspension bridge and go over into what's now Downtown Minneapolis. He crossed over on Hennepin Avenue and he would well, I'm calling it that it wasn't named. So then but the suspension bridge was the first span across the Mississippi constructed here at in Minneapolis area and it is now the we're Hennepin Avenue eyes. I don't know the exact location in Minneapolis house, but let's say it was within a ten-block radius of Bridge Square certainly for that that period was very very close to that area, but I can't pinpoint it for you. (00:54:20) But then it was Dover and Saint Anthony. (00:54:22) No, it would be across the river on the west side in (00:54:25) Minneapolis. Then another where did the stage come between st. Paul and Minneapolis (00:54:31) the actual route? I don't believe there's a street that follows the entire course of it. But if you just pick up a map and look at the way the river wines, you can draw easily a straight line from downtown st. Paul to to downtown Minneapolis area to the falls and it would roughly land on University Avenue. So there's there's a path there's a marker in fact at University and Snelling that mentions the Old Stage route through there. There's an historical marker. One of the stops was practically in front of our Lady of Lourdes church, and that later became the railroad yard and the old huddle bar across the street was the railroad station. Maybe you should tell them what are they dealing with you had to be on the East Bank facing Nicola Thailand, but that that is also some some of our things in our archive showing that the people at the stagecoach probably stop at the Winslow house and then As you say made their way across the suspension bridge the which Lodge was another hotel. That was I was right next door to the church where they cook all the site that you mentioned the shoot Square side. The Winslow House was an extremely popular hotel and chances. Are are we talking about your grandfather's haven't you said? I don't know. She's still on chances are that he would have found it full when he came and probably fairly expensive. It was a resort hotel that cater to Rich Southerners prior to the Civil War and consequently, he would have found better accommodations across the river in the new and inexpensive Boom Town of Minneapolis. Let's go to another listener we have time for just one or two more questions. Good morning. We're listening for your (00:56:06) question. I was wondering about the history of the Nokomis Village area when it was settled when it became part of Minneapolis and what sort of area it was when you say (00:56:18) when you say, Nokomis Village you're talking about the area around Lake Nokomis. Part of that part of that area was through the genius of Theodore worth in the development of the lakes and the dredging of Lake Hiawatha and the draining of some of the swamp areas. If you notice some of the areas around there have Pete beds and many of the homes that are built were built during the 1930s with pilings. I remember when I took senses out in that area when I was at st. Helena, as you can see the the at the area developed as the land was reclaimed. And when was that about, you know, father. Well the best part of that was done during the almost up to through the 1920s. I know I see a nod over there. You could probably Tom know I think that for me not any better than that, I'd say in the 30s with you a good estimate so that area was built up on pilings because of well summers are some of it was some of the lowlands and they in Drainage and figure they making Lake Hiawatha, which was just a swamp and nearly became one just a few years ago during the drought again and then mother like well it in running north to south. It's like how author than Nokomis which used to be called like Amelia and then the mother like area that's out by the airport now and all of that land was is low and poorly drained so that there was always the problem of water before them so we can dredging we can't tell our questioner exactly when the Nokomis Village area was incorporated but it sounds like it at least began to be settled what in the end of the centuries 1920s and and so on we have less than two minutes left in our program and I'm afraid not enough time to take another caller and I want to thank those people who did call in this morning with questions and also the few listeners who are still on the line, but we're not going to be able to get to them. I want to thank all of you for being with me this morning Tom troll of the Minnesota Historical Society Marcela Trujillo who teaches at the University of Minnesota and Chicano studies. Mary Ingalls from the genealogical library of the Church of Jesus Christ of the Latter Day Saints, which is in st. Paul. Is that right one in st. Paul 2202 Hadley and the one in Minneapolis are crystal at 2801 Douglas Drive North. Okay and father Alan Moss from Our Lady of Lourdes in Minneapolis. Thanks all for being being with me this morning and also a reminder too that if you're interested in knowing more about Minneapolis history the Minneapolis Library as we said at the outset of the program is sponsoring a project really called portrait of a lifestyle that will be going on for some time and the initial series the first part of that program began the last weekend and goes through November and all of our guests and many more people to will be taking part in that program as the fall continues. And if you want more information about that, you should call the Minneapolis Public Library. I imagine that any public library though more particularly the downtown library would have full information about that. We also want to remind you that at the This time next week actually from nine until noon a three hour energy special on NPR will have calling segments will have guests in Washington DC at the Studio's of national public radio should be an interesting program and we hope that you can tune in also a reminder that not that the people in st. Paul should be should feel pushed aside that in a couple of weeks. We'll take a look at the history of that city as well. We want to thank you for being with us this morning on Spectrum. I'm rich determine the time in five seconds is 11 o'clock. This is MPR listener supported service.