St. Paul Mayor George Latimer recently had some derogatory words for the way Minneapolis Alexis police chief's he said it's a shame to have the mayor of point is own Chief to a two-year term that runs concurrently with the two-year term of the mayor quote. I would rather have the most crotchety independent police chief that have someone who always worried whether he is going to be appointed next year the chief in Minneapolis as I see it serves at the pleasure of the mayor and I believe his term should at least overlap given turn of the mayor. It's not a good issue for a political campaign Latimer told as Citizens League breakfast that bit of criticism is probably the perogative of the Rival Town's mayor. However, Latimer probe the soft spot politics in the Minneapolis Police Department Minneapolis has had 5 police chief's in the last 7 years depending upon who you talk to that either catastrophic or it's no big deal consider these facts whenever there's a new mayor or any time a sitting mayor is perturbed with his chief. He may pick a newOne with each new mayor and police administration department priorities and policies may change sometimes drastically every time there is a change and Chiefs. There may be up to a 10% staff of people within the force including shifts and administrative slots and other position jogging that may affect every Precinct in the city. The main problem according to critics is that the present system of an appointed Chief permit political favoritism which undercuts professionalism and crime fighting capability According to some a bandwagon mentality exist officers taking two rise within the department look to support a promising candidate in hopes of winning a plum position that is certainly not to say that Advance rank is exclusively due to politicking but it's acknowledge that supporting the right candidate can't hurt an officer's career Jack Jensen served as chief of police during the final 15 months of the administration of Al Hast IT Minneapolis mayor in 1974 and 1975.Jensen took over after hofstede's first appointment Jack McCarthy had resigned Jensen decided to keep most of the top administrative slot intact and did little Personnel shuffling Jensen is presently on leave from the Department to the State Department of Public Safety. You said politicking with in the Minneapolis Police Department has increased since he joined the force in 1964, it grows out of in my judgment the system that's their the system of electing a mare the system of the appointment of the police chief who serves at the pleasure of American that's part of the problem is not the problem of individual but it is very much and then in recent times it's gotten to be that you have the ends and he have the olives are those on the police department that are on the album Ten to work for political candidate who is on the ballot and if they get him elected then of course they become in and receive certain appointments based on your political involvement.I guess we can expect an apartment to be a political because there are feelings are but doesn't this 10 to detract from the effectiveness of the department. If you have people who are ins and outs every two or four years people on top does not the sort of subvert the goal of the department on new depending on Monday the austerity of the budgeting process in Minneapolis at a given time. That's you know, what the 20 million dollar sizable expenditure of the public first met that require some continuity and management so that those funds are exercised towards maximum productivity in the field and operation of police department. You cannot have that if we continue to change top leadership every two years or more often.I think even more important than that and it while we can't expect individual officers to be a political. I think very clearly we can expect I think we ought to demanda. There's nothing to say that an officer on an individual basis shouldn't be involved in politics in the party of his choice, whatever it may be but when it becomes the flavor of various groups within the police department to endorse candidates to to as a group as police officers as a group to endorse candidates, I think that that's not in concert. What I consider to be the exemplary model of a free and Democratic societies policing system. So what I've always had this on an individual basis as a group, we may come together and whatever form there may be to identify issues that we feel our of import to anyGiven political election affecting the public safety but those issues are not to be taken into the individual parties as opposed to the police as a collectivities becoming partisan in involved and dominating one particular party or the other or becoming the tool of one political party of another that so I think is a very very important issue in terms of this whole idea of putting on Baldwin Park police farmer Minneapolis Police Chief Jack Jensen, the Minneapolis Police Federation is the police officers Union it regularly endorses mayoral candidates don't fail to in the last election between Aloha state in the present mayor Charles stenvig, the Federation favors the present system of police chief appointment by the mayor critics say it does so because a constant turnover of chiefs Keeps The federation's Voice strong and City Hall David Ward at University of Minnesota criminal justice studies Professor is a close Observer of Minneapolis Police issues. He said the Federation is a major stuff.Block in the way to a better system one in which the chief would be tenured for several years on a contractual basis and not subject to mayoral appointment. He contends the system would reduce the politicking within the department and improve the Department's go all of crime-fighting in December of 1975 study committee chaired by Ward comprised of police legal authorities and concerned citizens prepared a report on police issues for mayor Al hawstead. What sort of system would you advocate for, Minneapolis?Well, they say the special committee on police issues. Advance to system to try to reconcile the two poor examples on either side won the Minneapolis system atrophy year system and on the other side the the Milwaukee and Madison Wisconsin system, which is the chief has lifetime tenure and there is totally unresponsive to political Authority and even to the Federation which of course is one of the reasons that the Federation gives is strongly opposed to that kind of system. They would be another system that would First of all lead to a better manner of selecting and reviewing candidates and that would be the appointment of a Citizens committee with say three people the numbers here obviously just for example, but three people appointed by the the the mayor and three people by the city council 3, so you'd have six citizens. They would be given a budget that would permit them to do whatever testing was necessary to do whatever searching was necessary screening of possible candidates and that could include candidates obviously within the Minneapolis Police Department or outside if we had a professional Department, then I would hope the candidates would come from within the present time. We do not have such a program for preparing line officers to take over command positions. It's it's really seniority for the most part. Well, the six citizens then would review candidates and Screen them test them and then they would finally come up with a with three and they would submit the names of those three persons to the mayor who would then select one of the three then the city council would support that by would have to support that by a majority vote. And the police chief would be then given a contract which could be again. This is an arguable. I think most of the members of the committee thought a three-year trim some fat to some pot for 5, but for the purposes of this discussion, let's say yeah 3 years. During that time, the chief could not be removed except for cause now and and also in the contract the objectives that he was to achieve in. His administration was to achieve would be clearly laid out. Well at the end of the three year. Then the contract could be renewed for another term that renewal however would require at this point not a majority but a two-thirds vote of the city council the idea being that the chief would be even more responsive than concerned about the authority in this case than in the in the council and his term or hear trim could be you could get another three years suppose that you don't like the chief that after this careful selection process that you end up with a real with somebody who's just a tremendous disappointment in office. How do you get such a person out? Where do you get a person out the way you get him a manager of a losing baseball team. Are you buy up his contract? Which is very standard way of doing business, but he could not be removed except for cause which would mean for example some kind of moral turpitude. Grab some kind of really gross incompetence in in an office. But that's system. It seemed to us would would first of all provide some citizen input. It would provide a manner of generating candidates for chief who would be there on the basis of qualification. Not on the basis of how many signs they pounded during the during the mayor LTE campaign. They with the choice would still be left for the mayor and the city council. It would be up to the mayor to design the contract and put the put the terms of what the administration was supposed to accomplish in the contract and then and in a relatively short. Of time, the Chiefs tenure would come up again and the the question of how to what extent he succeeded in achieving the objectives. Would be measured you could be removed as necessary. This proposal would seem to make the chief more responsible to the council and do the mayor as he has been in the past. Is that a purpose or am I not reading that correctly? Well in the City of Minneapolis has never made clear to whom the chief is responsible. The chief is responsible to the mayor and that he's appointed by the mayor of the budget. However is approved by the by the city council so that we have never determined here to whom the chief actually is responsible. Now if we're going to have a strong-mayor system then presumably it's to the to the mayor and the selection from the three candidates is clearly the mares the terms of the contract in terms of what this Administration will do is also up to the mayor and it's up to the man who proposed the chief form for renewal of his contract. So that it seems to me that they did that. It takes into account the kind of authority that that the city at the present time in tents the for the chief and that is it there is authority vested in both the mayor and the council. What's happened to you report nothing? It sits on a shelf somewhere you submitted this to Mayor hastad. He was voted out to a month before its publication date. That's Riley. Was it ever reviewed by the mayor or the department or the police Federation or anyone? They think it was just sort of reviewing it with What Might Have Been maybe I do not know whether Mast and Vic has has paid any attention to what I've never heard a comment from him to that effect. I think the Federation I has read it and I think and we've had a couple of city council hearings. In the government operations committee that councilman Munich was member of the special committee and police issues shared which looked at the various components of the report and it was probably work on testimony in Federation came out against the method of selecting the chief in opposition to for former Chiefs University of Minnesota Professor David Ward Sergeant. Jerry Bridgman is president of the Minneapolis Police Federation. And when you feel the police department should be responsive to the public the public likes me or every two years and responsibilities should fall on the mayor to select his chief. It's a big change over every two years. When is the new mayor that affects him around that apartment? Probably if we did something about the number of appointed positions we have within the police department didn't rotate. So many one. We had it a political change. It would tend to stabilize policies within the department more so than changing the the method of appointing a chief. It's rather than change the method for appointing a chief than what we had to do is is leave some of those top appointments intact that does more to disrupt than actually the chief turnovers that correct. That's correct. When you have a change of anime are there were there are approximately 40 positions that he's going to appoint and change that means 40 people coming in 40 people going off at 80 people. Let's 10% of the Department's it's moving. If we did something to limit the turn over in that area would be much farther heads and changing the method of appointed chief. one of the charges against the Federation is that of course, they're looking out for the best interest of the officer and everyone understands that but it's been said that in doing so the Federation is back the mayoral appointment system because it gives a lot more police officers a chance to become Chief and it does that at the expense. Has been effective consistent policy that might go on for for 6 years. The time of some people feel is needed to implement a policy and keep the department running. All the police Federation has has no interest in a large turnover of Chiefs and we're not interested in and providing that more that many more opportunities for our men become please to the changeover. Has an adverse effect on the Federation and that all those people changing jobs. causes Morale problems so it falls back on the Federation actually changing Chiefs is harder on the Federation. We have to establish all know working relations with that Chief has really no interest in the part of the Federation to change chief said often and we're really not interested in providing as many people as you stated to be Chief. We have no interest along those lines at all one Chief and and stay with that chief for a while is fine with us, but politically and then for the Public's interest the mayor has to have the opportunity to change that Chief if he feels the chief is not being responsive. I wouldn't go back to 1945. They're kicking around the same idea Humphrey was running for mayor in the City of Minneapolis Humphrey felt that it was the duty of the mayor to appoint the police chief so that the public could hold them are responsible for what happened to the police department. There's no reason to have a three-person commission to appoint a police Chiefs are plenty of qualified candidates. And I think if you looked at the candidates of the Vin Diesel Minneapolis, you'll see that when they stepped down the street from City of Minneapolis. They've done some place else with cheap. We have plenty of qualified Personnel. It was in the department to be the chief of police. I wouldn't say it was unilaterally against any other system, but I I think they're pointing at the wrong problem. I think the sisters nothing wrong with the system we have for appointing a chief and if the mayor becomes upset with his chief of police for some reason, he should have the right to change that cheap. This Chief has been in for a year notice. There's no indication if he's going to be gone proud of the next election. That's a two-year Run for the shoes. Is two years give a chief enough time to inject his own philosophy and get his own people comfortable in their job and and get things working. Do you think certainly plenty of time for Chiefs developer program providing he doesn't come in and try to change all the rules and regulations is apartment. That's the trouble we've had a lot of chiefs they come in and right away. They want to rewrite all the rules and regulations if they would settle down to one set of rules and regulations and just work on policy, but there's not that much policy that can change after all all we do is enforce the law the laws on the chief changes. He doesn't change the law. So other than shuffling people around and we're trying to change rules and regulations there isn't that much of the chief changes. Unless Sir Francis of Chief like Jensen who established a lot of committees. It took him longer to get some of his policies going but there's no reason he can't get the Department running the way he wants it. I was in a half a year and Jensen did that Sergeant Gerry Bridgman president of the Minneapolis Police Federation words of the Federation takes a smart public position by saying the chief should be responsive to the voters through the mayor but he said the Federation also derives great power from a system that perpetuates a rapid turnover. That is the the question to what extent will the will the people of all the members of the department be responsive to changes in administration or organization or operations that the that the chief in his New West Staff want to want to advance and if you have seven Chiefs and eight years as we had here while ago and that's a very weak system of chiefs because everybody knows that if you just wait for a few months why he'll be gone. And that puts an organization whose which represents the interests of the of the members of the department or segments of them obviously in a much more powerful position. It's the case that in other other cities where there is a chief who has some kind of tenure in office or some stability in leadership that they're often is conflict and considerable conflict between the Federation and the and the chief. And the Federation I'm sure likes a system that avoids that by having the chief's office kept very weak. And from their point of view, it's a smart position to take. Because as long as you got some but the new coming in and out your Cloud can only be enhanced. That's right. You can wait anything out and the Federation also represents a source of support or or opposition powerful support or opposition to proposals that the chief makes now the question is to what extent is a chief want to take on the Federation. You got some tenure in office. Maybe you feel you can do it if you haven't and you waste your time. So the Federation takes a public position that is it again. I think a smart one. They say it's more democratic. He's more responsive to the to the mayor and so forth Ave. The question is you know, what the quality of of law enforcement is with this and weather in a democracy, which the United States reputedly is, whether there are not other cities and other organizations like the Federal Bureau of Investigation that does seem to operate at least as well as Minneapolis Police Department with a chief who has some tenure in office and administration that is in for some time and is the chosen on grounds of professional competence rather than loyalties are activities during the preceding clinical campaign University of Minnesota Professor David Ward 7th Ward Alderman Lee Munich chaired city council hearings on the police chief matter in 19. Monday 6 to the extent that politics exist in the department or that a person is placed in a position based on their political activity. It diminishes our Effectiveness as if a police officer, it also reduces the amount of respect for management by the by the individual officer and there I think they're they're less willing or less eager to provide the kind of Police Service and act as sensitively as they should for example, if you've ever worked on a job where where someone has been promoted because of their friendship with the boss or of being a relative you if it has actors adimora acted as a demoralizing factor in terms of your own work and this is what's happening in the police department on Liana probably much more substantial way. Her number of people that have gained their positions because of their political activity. And I think it's a problem. I think that has to be changed. Do you think that having five or six or whatever it's been since 1970 have detracted from the performance of the department and that they're always trying to break in a new policy a new philosophy of how the department should run. I believe we've had five Chiefs in the Last 5 Years. Because of that there has not been a continuity in the administration of the department. There have been different policies and there has been uncertainty about policy on the part of the department in addition to that as I mentioned before because of the political influence in the selection of the chief. There has been a I think Allure respect on the part of the officers Woodland apartment and a morale problem, which is led to not as good a law enforcement systems. We could have in Minneapolis and a lack of sensitivity in terms of dealing with the people in Minneapolis 7th Ward Alderman Lee Munich former mayor, Al hostage said he is leery of a panel which would help select the chief because it make Cloud the issue of who the forces responsible to he sides with those who say the chief must be directly responsible to the mayor because the philosophy of the department. Was constantly reflect that of the elected official. I think the mayor is it just has to have my opinion some kind of control over. That's where the Polish is all that the police department. There are more problems than there are Manpower which means that you have to allocate your Manpower according to what you think are your priorities those priorities which are reflected in the polls people vote on nightmare for a mayor and what he is indicated during the campaign. He will do are the things that he should be able to reflect in that in that place Department department operates in the weather department operates. That has been problems. Yes, I think over the last few years. It had 60s and 5G. So I don't know what it is that during my tenure of course 11 what happened, but I will tell you that he left and he left because he couldn't take the job. He couldn't understand the pressures of the job. Now that it's got nothing to do with you know, that that's that's that's an exception more than the rule. So I went back to me and the captain One of the criticisms Voice by the former Chief Don Dwyer when you appointed Jack McCarthy to be chief after your election in the fall of 73 was that you possibly hampered his ability to enact what he thought would be wise police policies by also telling him who to appoint as deputies are a dozen or so top officials within the department that also comes with a change in the mayoral Administration. Could you see any renovation of that should the chief be given more leeway in selecting who he wants as to be his top aides. First of all. He rui when I went in eye and indicated that the chief has the right to pick his top three men. I would not interfere with that. Cuz those are his deputy chief. That was the first time that's ever been done. I said he had to try like know that you are or who they worth now, but he picked his history Deputy Chiefs. I did not indicate and tell him who I didn't tell him. I figure that if he's going to run that place Department. And he's going to be responsible for he had to be able to pick those those three key people in those are his top met. I did not interfere in that my intentions of doing you know that at the time you don't interfere in good police work. I don't know the guy left in the middle of the year. I don't know whether or not he couldn't take the pressure. So so everybody under that under that kind of thinking he would have everybody that he would have picked. You know, what have another Chief would have been in here to pick the whole group of other people that he thought for good. Why don't worry he wears his judgment so good or better than anyone elses, you know, that's where just because your replacement doesn't make you wear uniform doesn't mean you're good administrator or whatever. I think the real issue. I mean, it's It is the real issue is whether or not is that is just please Power the misuse of power and who should have control over that and I firmly believe that you start talking about that kind of power you you better have an elected official in there who has some control because of people in this town have a right to Reef North reflect their wishes in and out at The Ballot Box and if that mayor cannot then turn around and say and go to the place to retire. This is what I want done. What good is it? We can get that we had to be able to get a system. We had a fight for a system of the mayor has four years and under the normal times and arm normal circumstances should have the Chiefs ever be there for four years. The problem is the unless the mayor's re-elected the longest term for the chief will be 2 years and would not tend to subvert police policy. It takes a while to Institute. Going philosophy in an active in the field does not in this would continue to do the road the department. It would seem just haven't met. You know, you're right. I mean as I said, there's that's what a part of the problem the problem is. I don't think you'll ever see a situation and we have today. This is another exception and if you look at history, you have not seen mayor's change office this past that they are so the fact that there has been here six or seven Chief since 1970 is simply it it's sort of the flu can something that doesn't normally happen very often that you have cheese to change it off and put it in the definition of Mayors the chair change the stuff we would have never seen they break down in the kind of probably Jackson's and may have been there for a long long time. I think that if I would have been reelected at that time, he was my choice. You have been Chief if I would have left after four years. I suspect another person got in what I would have taken a serious. Look at Jackie was not he's not somebody that was tied to any political machine and that could have been the case. I think my election was a flu and also I'm running again, but I'm in the point is is that this is just a different time in the history of Minneapolis. And I don't think you take this exceptional time, which it is and with the with it. Why would you change over in the mayor's is an exception and not the norm? I don't think that's just so you know, right laws around these kinds of exceptions. I think it take a look at what a normal times. If you look at history aren't natural probably serve 68 years became Peter Cetera text Imani years other mayors of serve longer than that. So I think this is whole time is Bennett an exception. And that's the rule and not the norm and I don't think you write legislation would I don't think you change Charters because of this kind of you know, they are these kinds of exceptions former mayor Al hofstede either the city council of the city Charter commission could initiate a change in the appointment system through a proposed amendment to the city Charter ultimately the voters will decide in a referendum. Neither body assure a 10-year term is the solution neither is sure there should be a change but there is definitely some disgruntlement within both groups over the present system both will discuss the matter before the Citywide elections later this year Stephen Aldrich Minneapolis attorney is Chairman of the 15-member charter commission. I think there's a fair agreement that if we can find a way to change the structure of city government so that the likelihood that the police chief was that a given police chief will serve for a longer. Is enhanced but that would be a good thing, but you got two competing values here. You've got a question of political responsiveness. And political philosophy as it's reflected in Mayors who are elected and police chiefs were selected. And then you've got a question of efficiency in professionalism. And to some extent they are perhaps at odds with each other. It's quite clear that mirror hastad and may are sending a representative to substantially different. police philosophies and law-enforcement philosophies personally, I would much prefer a former hostage philosophy to Marist in Vick's if those are the two I get to choose between the given election. But it's clear that the people who supported mayor Haas dead among other things wanted a different police enforcement procedure in set of priorities. One of the clear priorities of the of the standing in ministration has been suppression of what is deemed to be Vice there many of us who feel that there are other focuses of law enforcement besides suppression of saunas that are prepped more important crimes against persons and property were there are victims the argument being that Saunas are essentially victimless crimes unless somebody gets rolled there something like that. It's voluntarily and consensual spend your police dollar and please Focus. I would choose to spend more money on preventing rape and murder unless I'm prevented preventing people who are willingly participating in a sauna activity. Well in that respect when I choose a mayor I'm choosing among other things a law enforcement philosophy. And since that's his major power of the present Charter. It's certainly a major question the Soul on the one hand. We have an election process designed to produce leaders who will accomplish things that we want to have happen. And it let's assume for a moment that may often has been in office and he has accomplished a number of changes in approaching the department and now we're standing because elected in this place the citizens who elected mayor Steinberg had other priorities and he now speaks for the City of Minneapolis for 2 years. They have a right to believe even though those who opposed it may fight him on it that they will get a change in law enforcement philosophy. And if the police chief was appointed by Mary Austin has one philosophy and meristem big has another then I think it's only appropriate that he should be replaced unless he can drastic Liam and his philosophy and most people students of government thing cuz it's better to change the person than to try to change his philosophy. So they end up with a conflict between trying to extend the length of time that police chief's serve and please Administration serve to produce more professionalism and the very real desire. Where are mayor has a two-year term. They have the mayor's law enforcement philosophy reflected in the department. And how do you accomplish both Stephen Aldrich of the Minneapolis Charter commission when the commission mulled over the issue prior to the 1975 elections, it decided a for 6 year term for the chief such as in St. Paul was too long Aldrich said the election panel idea was also criticized former Alderman bergford. We're both in attendance at the mistake of a term. And the mistake of a blue ribbon committee claiming that both tended to diffuse political responsibility in the case of the Blue Ribbon commission. It was felt that a mayor who was appointing somebody with a blue ribbon commission was going to be in a position to an affect height is real choices by or behind the Blue Ribbon committee's recommendations and their hypothetical was as follows Royal friends to the Blue Ribbon. Dreams of getting a recommendation of that committee for a selection of the police chief would require 4 volts 3 very loyal mayor of oats and one vote from the council assumedly. The mayor's choices could be much more loyal to his particular point of view than the three persons chosen by a 13-member city council. You're much more likely to have a diversity of opinion amongst the three and it was felt that if a mare really wanted a particular person to become police chief, he could produce that result by influencing his own selection committee, and there's no guarantee that the selection committee is going to be independent enough to tell the mayor that he can't have it. In addition to that there always is a fun of administrative bureaucratic and Labor Relations politics that goes on behind any appointment. And now when the appointment is made there's one person responsible name of the mayor whatever was told to the mayor it was you know, whatever was told. Anybody was making the decision was told the mayor because he had to make that decision. all the forces converging his office he gets a tough decision to make but at least the public knows who made it if you inject a blue ribbon committee and many members of the commission who felt that it would simply make it less easy to see who did what and to hold people accountable and With respect to the issue of term Maranatha and pointed out that during his tenure as mayor which was so many years. He had only three police Chiefs and that's an average of a little better than 2 years almost 3 years for each police chief and his argument was respect turn over in the job. All of them are explained by policy decisions either the the electorate changed mayors. We are 10 Big Sur for two terms in his initial instance. And I believe he had tours to Police Chief's mayor hostage sore for two years and he had to Police Chief's so I'm 6 years you had for police chase. Now, we've had Carl Johnson serving under me a stand big for a little about a year now. In each case the decision clearly with perhaps one exception being the change in the end Administration from Chief lights to Chief Johnson. Where the result of policy Decisions by The Boulders or a management decision by the mayor in the case of when Chief McCarthy was replaced by Chief. He and his Mayer had a disagreement over how the department has to be run and I think most people would agree that if that the mayor who is ultimately responsible. The electric has a strong opinion and love Chief appointed is unable to been to that opinion. Then the mare has a right to replace him that we may disagree of the destruction. I think thought to be a good thing generally Charter commission chairman Stephen Aldrich Minneapolis Police Chief Carl Johnson favors the appointment system because he said under at the mayor is directly responsible to the people with Johnson also agrees with me or stendig suggestion of a citizen police commission. It would operate like any other voting commission such as the park board or Library board. The commission would select to arrange for the election of a police chief Johnson said, there is no best system. But added that to years is enough time to implement a police policy. It is unclear if those who support a tenured position for the chief will Garner enough support to move the issue to a referendum next fall over one other approach to encourage some continuity and Department policy has been proposed Al Halsted and city council. President Lewes de Mars support a 4-year term for the mayor. The mayor would still a point is on Chief, but the department would have more time under 1 boss University Professor Ward said under a 4-year term. At least there is more time for police officers to worry about police work and less to worry about the next chief a little longer to get their plan in operation. Let's say that it take some of year. Milan at least I've got a couple of years before everybody's got to start worrying about the next election. If there's a contract system that gives the chief little more Security in office because then he's secure from being removed by the mayor except for causes is as I said, so it might be that the that the professional Police Department would consider that what the mayor wants is is is the wrong thing or they might be a dispute about how to go about priorities suppose. The mayor said we want you to spend your time and effort on controlling dirty book some dirty movies in the chief said look that's important. But the most important thing is home burglaries and and robberies and we're going to allocate our resources to that. Well, it might be a real dispute over that on on grounds of morality and ideology in politics and so forth, but presumably under the contract system of the chief in that case would be given the authority to concern himself with burglars and and and robbers and the whole issue would come up for review by the city council later on but during that time in office. He presumably is is insulated a bit. from from political interference But not for long because he's ultimately responsible initially and ultimately responsive to it University Professor David Ward former Chief Jack Jensen supports Contracting with a chi for a 10-year return. However, he modifies his support by saying the chief must be absolutely responsible to the mayor. I think that's that's where I do part with some of the professional civil service appointment for life if you will because I think there's a value and having a police chief being responsive to what The people have said is a political leadership if that leadership indeed is representative of the people than the chief ought to be responsive to it and having an appointing authority of the cheap with removal only four cars two-thirds vote of the city council. Then I think you've got the safeguards in there that can work. Well police chief on the one hand has to be a political to exercise is Cheer in the best way to meet the needs of a free and Democratic Society, but he ought not be impounded if he is and he's not being a good because in any environment have a tickling Minneapolis was going to be political pressures and you ought to be able to to deal with those pressures and understand what they mean and deal with bective Lee was elected officials who have a constituency that they have to represent inmate. I'm just going to put them at odds with the police chief which indeed it shut it cuz it said in that sense of the legislative branch of government in the executive branch. Adversary relationship there to keep a bolt working in the best interest of the government and the people former Chief Jack Jensen if there are no changes in the present system and it appears there are no unexpected it is because the majority prefers some politics in his apartment rather than risking conflict between a mayor and the chief. He does not support the solution said Stephen Aldrich of the charter commission may be informal a chief will simply leave competence in high positions on the basis of their job performance instead of their politics politics is a problem within the department according to those who spoke today, but for lack of a summarily agreeable alternative, it will be lived with Al hawstead that department is is is so sensitive to the community. And so therefore the mayor has to play a role in it and you get in some some guy and it will can't handle the job boards and sensitive to certain people are who becomes hardened towards certain problems of a community. In the end the community suddenly jumps up and says nothing. Please take that man out of here. You don't for whatever reason. I mean I'm using example, I think the mayor out of jail be done and it will be done and just because then you're putting see what you're doing is you're putting a lot of power that you know that kind of power and people who are appointed and you know, who are who have to do not have to go to the Publican, you know and ask her, you know, did I do a good job or a bad check? Well, I just like I like the idea of you know, he's the bus and he's the one who made the decision. He's the one that's responsible for it. And so you can so when something goes wrong in a little blame if something goes right to know the price and I don't think that's why I got to be clear you can make it for those people out there the better off here. And that that's that's what I like to do former Minneapolis. Mayor Al hofstede. I kneel Saint Anthony.