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GARY EICHTEN: Bob Wagner and Bill Cunningham are here from the Sierra Club. And the first thing I should explain is what the New Earth Revival is. Starting this evening at 6 o'clock and running tomorrow and Sunday as well at the Lyndhurst Community Center and Universalist church in Minneapolis, the New Earth Revival is a series of-- well, I don't know how best to sum this up. It's a whole series of things that you can go and do and learn about and experience.

There'll be some people talking there, all of it involving the notion that we are short of resources and that we should be making do with the things that we have without using up more of those resources. Is that a fair summary statement of what you folks are going to be doing?

BOB WAGNER: Yeah, I think so. It's sort of an exposition of all of the brighter aspects of a lifestyle that's not based on high levels of consumption. There are a lot of good things that you can do with your life that don't require so much consumption. Some of the things, for example, are to get involved in activities in your own neighborhood.

We have a number of examples of that going on at the New Earth Revival this weekend, musical groups you can be a part of.

GARY EICHTEN: I notice you have folk dancing, guitar playing, recorder playing, banjo playing, square dancing, neighborhood singing groups, drama groups. You teach people to do all these things this weekend?

BOB WAGNER: Exactly. Those things are not going to be performances so much as they're going to be involvement kinds of activities. People will get instruction in basic folk dancing. They'll be encouraged to participate, which that attitude is an alternative lifestyle, a participation in your entertainment rather than observation, which has become the dominant form of entertainment in our country.

BILL CUNNINGHAM: We should say that we don't want to give people the expectation that they can come out there this weekend and learn how to play a French horn, but at least they can come and get an idea of how to get started and where you go for instruction and how you buy an instrument and how you get started in these things.

GARY EICHTEN: You would teach somebody how to blow into the French horn, then?

BILL CUNNINGHAM: Yes, and we'll even let them try.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, you've got so many things here-- bicycling, gardening, pottery, quilting. You used to have homemade ice cream on hand, too, but I guess that's been scratched. Is that--

BOB WAGNER: The health department-- Minneapolis Health Department wouldn't allow us to crank homemade ice cream on the spot, so we had to abandon that idea.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, let's talk a little bit about the philosophy behind all of this and all these things that you're going to be doing. Well, first of all, we should mention all of this is free, right? I mean, people are encouraged to come out.

BOB WAGNER: Well, we're requesting a $0.25 donation, but that's not necessary. If you can't afford that, you're welcome anyway.

GARY EICHTEN: Of course, a lot of people who say that we aren't short of energy, that there is plenty of there are plenty of resources around for us to do the things that we want to do. What-- how do you respond to that? Is that--

BOB WAGNER: Well, of course--

GARY EICHTEN: At the end-- in other words, with the end of the oil embargo, has your New Earth Revival become obsolete?

BOB WAGNER: No, no, I don't think-- not at all, really. As a matter of fact, the things that we're promoting at the New Earth Revival would be good even if there wasn't a shortage of energy. Although, those of us who look at the environment seriously are convinced that there really is a pending shortage of energy, along with a lot of other things.

But the philosophy of the New Earth Revival are things that are basically good for people-- participation, getting involved in entertainment forms that allow for self-expression and creativity. Those are things that are good for people, regardless of the energy situation. Physical activity-- bicycling and hiking and canoeing-- are good for you.

They're good for your physical and mental health, and we need more of those things with or without abundant energy. So even if you happen to think that there is abundant energy, there's a lot of good things going on at the New Earth Revival.

BILL CUNNINGHAM: Could I say something about that? I also agree with Bob that although the immediate short term crisis of the energy supply appears to be over, I think there's no question that we're going to be shorter and shorter in the coming decades. And we need to begin to change now. We shouldn't say, well, it's over. We'll all go buy big cars again and drive for the next 10 years, regardless of what's coming up in the future that we're going to run out.

And furthermore, from the environmentalist standpoint, the energy crisis is not so much a crisis of supply as a crisis of effect. You may have noticed that the smog levels over Minneapolis and Saint Paul were pretty bad yesterday morning. And we feel that even if there is an infinite supply of oil, we can't go on driving cars inefficiently and doing all the things we're doing, using energy to create pollution and to damage the environment.

BOB WAGNER: A couple of our speakers at the New Earth Revival are going to be talking about-- well, one in particular, Perry Blackshear, who's speaking Saturday night, will have some comments on energy use, the ramifications of just dumping a lot of waste heat into the environment. Perry has done some mathematics on the business of even if we have an infinite supply of perfectly clean energy, just using it amounts to dumping a lot of waste heat into the environment.

Any time you use energy, it's ultimately released. And Perry will argue quite convincingly that we can't dump infinite amounts of waste heat into our environment and still keep it stable. Also, we're going to have a-- well, we do have a video tape of Paul Ehrlich in a speech that he gave just recently with some really salient comments on the energy crisis and the petroleum situation and really some convincing arguments that we'd like to have you come and see at the New Earth Revival, too.

SPEAKER 1: I guess, a broader question of sorts, the people involved actively in the environmental movement have come in for some rather sharp criticism of late, particularly when the gas situation looked rather bleak last winter. And a whole lot of things that have been happening to society were blamed on the environmental movement. Do you think those were fair criticisms? I don't suppose you do, since you're involved in it.

BOB WAGNER: Are you referring to the Alaska pipeline or--

SPEAKER 1: Well, among other things. That, and I guess there's a broader criticism that was leveled by many people that people involved in the environmental movement have put the environment over the welfare of the people.

BOB WAGNER: I think it's a question of long term versus short term view of things. I don't think any environmentalists--

SPEAKER 1: Or that you'd rather save birds than--

BOB WAGNER: Oh, I don't think anyone is saying that. Saving birds is just a part of saving all of life. And that's part-- and we're part of that. If the planet can't support bird life and animal life, then it isn't going to be long before it can't support human life, either.

BILL CUNNINGHAM: In a way, this New Earth Revival is an attempt to answer some of the criticisms that have been leveled at environmentalists. People are saying you environmentalists are against everything. You're always negative. Why don't you come up with something positive?

Well, this is positive. We're trying to show people some things that they can do that aren't destructive and aren't damaging. It's good for them and good for the environment, too. And so this is something we're trying to do to say there are some alternatives.

GARY EICHTEN: If-- what should a person come with to the-- do they have to bring anything to this now? Or do they just show up with their body or--

BOB WAGNER: Just show up with your body. And the location of the New Earth Revival is such that you can bicycle there very conveniently. It's on both of the major feeder bicycle routes in the Twin Cities.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, this, of course, is for our Twin City listeners. Now, if you're living in Fargo-Moorhead, it's going to be a long trip on the bicycle.

BOB WAGNER: It'll be a little tougher, but give it a whirl. We'll give you some free cider and cookies if you come on your bike from Fargo.

GARY EICHTEN: All right. And--

BILL CUNNINGHAM: If you have a musical instrument, bring that or your dancing shoes. Or if you have a craft or something you'd like to show people-- if you know how to carve wood or whatever-- come prepared to do things. Don't just come to look.

GARY EICHTEN: Arthur, I understand that you've got a question you'd like to toss in, too.

SPEAKER: Yes, thank you. I just wondered, I received some notification that Donald Fraser's address had been changed in time or location. Is there any truth to that?

BOB WAGNER: Donald Fraser is speaking at 3 o'clock on Sunday rather than at 2 o'clock. So you're right on that.

SPEAKER: What is the age range that would be represented at this New Earth Revival in terms of the persons participating, giving out the information, and conducting the exhibition and so on?

BOB WAGNER: Age is a pretty complete spectrum of ages. We've got a number of young people doing things. And then we have some-- well, I guess the age covers up to 60 or 65. People that are doing the wood carving are older folks. We've got a singing group, the Olive Fremstad Singers, who are doing Norwegian folk songs, and they're a group of older ladies. So yeah, the age is pretty complete.

SPEAKER: I was just wondering, too, Earth Week this year seems to have passed by with none of the-- or very little of the hoopla that accompanied it four years ago, particularly. I wonder if the younger people have given up on this, turned to other pursuits.

BOB WAGNER: I've had a good deal of encounter with high school people, and there are many, many high school groups that have been very active this past week and have organized lots of activities in their own schools and communities. Perhaps it just has received some less publication than in the past.

SPEAKER: Thank you very much.

GARY EICHTEN: That's the New Earth Revival. You folks have anything more that you want said about this?

BOB WAGNER: One other thing we'd like to add, there's a used outing equipment sale as part of the New Earth Revival. If you have an old tent or a backpack that you haven't been using or a pair of boots that haven't fit, you can bring those down to the New Earth Revival. And they will put them on sale there, and presumably, they'll be sold sometime during the weekend.

The Sierra Club was going to take 10% of that sale price to help pay the costs of renting the building, the Lyndhurst Community Center and so forth. But it's a good opportunity to recycle some outing equipment that's in your closet right now and get it back into use.

GARY EICHTEN: What if it does rain tomorrow?

BOB WAGNER: Well, if it rains, that doesn't really change anything. If it doesn't rain, a lot of the New Earth Revival will move outside. All the folk dancing and a lot of the exhibits will move outside if the weather is nice. If it's not nice, we'll be stuck indoors with it.

GARY EICHTEN: Bill?

BILL CUNNINGHAM: One thing I'd like to mention, Bob was talking about ways to get there. You also can canoe. It's right on Minnehaha Creek. So that's another way.

GARY EICHTEN: The . New Earth Revival starting this evening at 6 o'clock, running until 9:00. On Saturday, from 12:00 until 9:00 and then on Sunday, 12:00 to 6:00, sponsored by the Sierra Club. It's at the Lyndhurst Community Center and Universalist church, West 50th Street and Humboldt Avenue South in Minneapolis. Bob Wagner and Bill Cunningham, thank you for coming by this morning.

BOB WAGNER: Thank you.