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GRETA CUNNINGHAM: From Minnesota Public Radio, I'm Greta Cunningham. A new report says the federal No Child Left Behind law will cost Minnesota and local school districts at least $39 million a year to implement. The evaluation from the legislative auditor says many costs associated with the education law still remain unknown, but the state could end up spending more money than the federal government provides to implement the law. John Patterson of the Legislative Auditor's Office told members of the House Education Policy Committee today that opting out of the law would come at a price.

JOHN PATTERSON: If opting out is to have a net positive impact for the state, the cost savings would have to approach and possibly exceed $200 million in order to offset the loss of federal funding.

GRETA CUNNINGHAM: Education commissioner Cheri Pierson Yecke says the report should put to rest discussion of opting out of No Child Left Behind. The Senate Education Committee approved a bill last week that would cut ties with the federal law.

The Pawlenty administration is proposing making the state's dislocated workers program available to thousands of unemployed workers who are now ineligible. Those workers are currently ineligible because they are not part of a mass layoff.

The South Dakota Supreme Court ruled today that all waters in the state are public and can be regulated by the state. The high court's ruling goes against northeastern South Dakota landowners who are trying to keep people off private land that's been flooded into a lake. The justices in a unanimous opinion today say state government has the right to control water for public benefit.

The forecast for Minnesota today calls for mostly cloudy skies in the north. It'll be partly cloudy in the south today with breezy conditions in the west. High temperatures today ranging from 35 in the northwest to near 40 in the southwest.

Right Now, in Moorhead, fair skies and 36 degrees. Duluth reports sunshine at temperature of 33. And in the Twin Cities at this hour, partly sunny skies with a temperature of 36 degrees. From Minnesota Public Radio News, I'm Greta Cunningham.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks, Greta. Lunch for our volunteers is provided by Highland Grill and Edina Grill, urban diner serving breakfast, lunch, dinner, beer and wine, Ford Parkway and Cleveland in St. Paul and 50th and France in Edina.

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And good afternoon. Welcome back to Midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary Eichten. Glad you could join us. Robert Janssen is one of Minnesota's best known birders. The 71-year-old Chanhassen resident is an author and co-author of several books about birds. One of them, Birds in Minnesota, is considered by many to be the bible of state birdwatching.

Mr. Janssen is preparing a first ever inventory of birds in each of Minnesota's counties. Now, given his knowledge of birds, you might think that Robert Janssen is a scientist. But alas, he's quick to point out he's actually a retired businessman who's an amateur bird expert. Janssen is the former president of the Minnesota Ornithologists' Union, and he talked recently with the producer of our Voices of Minnesota interview series Dan Olson.

DAN OLSON: Don't dismiss birdwatchers. A new study by the US Fish and Wildlife Service concludes there's a lot of them, and they spend a lot of money. The report finds nearly 1 in 5 Americans is a bird watcher. Wisconsin is among the top three states in birding participation. The report finds that collectively, birders spend more than $30 billion on gear and travel a year.

There's even a definition. The federal report says you're a bird watcher if you travel a mile or more from home for the primary purpose of observing or identifying birds. Bob Janssen estimates he's traveled 3 million miles birding. He credits a meadowlark with starting his lifelong devotion to birdwatching. Janssen remembers the sighting. It was 66 years ago near where he grew up in the southwestern corner of the city of Minneapolis.

ROBERT JANSSEN: When I was five years old learning to ride a two-wheel bike, we lived in 48th and Drew in South Minneapolis, where my parents, my brother and I lived there. And it was pretty wild country yet. There were lots of grasslands and woods and lived in a little house. And there was a park a block away.

And on 50th and Abbott, there was a marsh, an old peat bog actually. But it was a beautiful marsh and there were-- and there was grass surrounding it And as a venturesome five-year-old learning to ride a bike, I went into the other world, a block or two away from my house.

And I was riding my bike, a meadowlark flashed up in front of me. I assumed it was a western meadowlark. I'm not sure there's two kinds of meadowlark. And that bird flashed in front of me with its yellow breast and its black v and its cluck call. And I turned my bike around and rode home as fast as I could.

And I remember my mother was ironing. And I said, mom, I saw a meadowlark! And I still to this day wonder how I knew what it was. I don't know. That's one of those unanswered-- I must have seen it in a book somewhere, and it impressed me. But I saw a live one. I've been hooked ever since.

DAN OLSON: Five years after the meadowlark encounter, Janssen was deep into birding. He had read and reread many of the most important bird identification books. At age 10,s his bird expertise gained him an audience with a professional. He remembers going to the Bell Museum of History at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis and being ushered into the presence of a scientist.

ROBERT JANSSEN: He said, do you know anything about birds? And I said, I don't know, sir. Well, he said, come back in the collection. And I want to-- I'm going to take out a tray of bird specimens, and I want you to identify those.

And he said-- and I took me back into the dungeons of the Bell Museum. And he pulled out this tray of fall warblers, difficult species to identify. And he said, now tell me what those are. So I went down and identified them all. And he thought I was pretty good.

DAN OLSON: How at 10 years old did you know so much about birds already?

ROBERT JANSSEN: How did I know that meadowlark on my bike? I don't-- I'm not sure. They just fascinated me.

DAN OLSON: Bob Janssen is sitting in his home office. He's a bespectacled man with close cropped white hair and beard. The office is an orderly collection of books and pictures. His computer screen glows with the county by county Minnesota bird inventory he's preparing. Bob Janssen has literally been everywhere in Minnesota.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Back in the '80s, so I could visit all the nooks and crannies in Minnesota, I bought a set of the MnDOT county maps. And I listed all of the named places in Minnesota, like, you know, the big cities, the little cities, the little crossroads, but anything that had a name to it. And I totaled them up and there were 1,836 named places.

St. Louis County, Duluth had the most. I think it had like 150 some named places. But I set myself a goal that I wanted to visit all of those places and to say that in my lifetime, I can say I've been in every named place in Minnesota.

In 1992, I think I accomplished that. I got to my last place, which was up in northern St. Louis County. But I've been in all 1,836 named places in Minnesota.

DAN OLSON: Robert Janssen is quick to remind that he's an amateur, not a trained scientist. Even so, he has soaked up enough ornithological knowledge to win him speaking engagements before learned audiences and to make him a frequently quoted figure on Minnesota birds. What do we know about the species number in Minnesota? Rising, declining, about flat?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, all of the above. Well, to give a broad brush picture, there's about 9,500 species of birds in the world. About 900 in North America. About 428 have been recorded in Minnesota.

And according to scientists/ornithologists and people who've done studies, they estimate that about half those species are in decline. And the other half is just barely holding their own. And a very small percentage of birds are exploding in numbers.

Everybody wants to talk about Canada geese in Minnesota or something like starlings or grackles. Gulls as a group are doing great because one of man's primary activities is creating garbage, and gulls love to feed on garbage. So we've made a home for them.

DAN OLSON: Loss of habitat? Is that the principal reason, do you think, for the decline in some of the species?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, the old real estate cliche-- location, location, location. For birding, it's habitat, habitat, habitat. And competition with human-- the humans are so pervasive on the Earth that they affect everything. And they've certainly had big effects on bird populations.

DAN OLSON: So birds really are fairly fussy? I mean, they want a certain kind of habitat and biology for a long, long time? Or are they adaptable?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Both of the above, but more of the latter-- more of the former than the latter because birds are very specific as to habitat. But take, for example, a Canada goose, which is a species that has-- when I was a kid growing up in Minnesota, in the Twin Cities, in March or April, you'd see a v of Canada geese going over. It would be the symbol of total wilderness.

They were going to the Arctic. And you couldn't approach a Canada goose within 100 yards. And now, of course, they're pooping on your porch. So. Canada geese are probably one of the best examples of evolution happening in birds and adaptability.

Again, I said about garbage and gulls. One of probably the best things-- one of the best things Minnesotans do is grow grass, either in their yard or on golf courses. And the grass we grow is two to three inches high, which is perfect grazing grass for Canada geese.

Canada geese, said man, we got all this grass. Why should we go so far? So they became very adaptable to humans. And I kind of have this statement that we used. Like, when you ask first what's happening with bird-- what are birds doing? What's happening with bird watching? What's happening with birds?

A statement that I like to use is that birds that are compatible with man's activities are doing very well. Those that aren't compatible with man's activities are barely holding their own or declining.

DAN OLSON: I'm not an avid birdwatcher. We throw some food at them in our backyard. I see cardinals. What are some examples of birds that are declining and are in trouble in Minnesota?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Again, according to scientific studies by ornithologists and people who do this kind of work, the species that are in the biggest trouble are grassland birds like sparrows, meadowlarks, any birds that inhabit grasslands, prairies.

And that's a habitat problem with the plowing up of prairies, the decline in grasslands, the deterioration of grasslands due to overgrazing and that kind of thing. The drainage of shallow wetlands, which provide areas in the prairie, which provide areas for grassland type birds. And these habitats are the most rapidly disappearing.

DAN OLSON: I'm surprised to hear that about sparrows. I think of sparrows as pests. I suppose that's a nasty thing to say. I think of sparrows as pests. They seem so everywhere.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, you're thinking-- I think of house sparrows, which is not a true sparrow. The house sparrow is an introduced species from Europe. It's a weaver finch, and everybody thinks of them as pests.

But there's about 45 species of other sparrows that occur in Minnesota, and they're all native. Most of them grassland or marsh-dwelling species. And they're nothing-- they're not even related to the house sparrows that you have in your backyard.

GARY EICHTEN: That was one of Minnesota's best known birders, Robert Janssen, talking with Minnesota Public Radio's Dan Olson. We're listening to a Voices of Minnesota broadcast here on Midday. And we'll get back to that conversation in just a couple of minutes.

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GRETA CUNNINGHAM: A Minnesota Public Radio member from Fridley writes--

GARY EICHTEN: "For years, I've been impressed by the quality programs originating at Minnesota Public Radio. When my friends learned I was moving here, they commented on what a terrific station Minnesota Public Radio must be. They're right. I hope my contribution can let Minnesota Public Radio continue their fine work."

GRETA CUNNINGHAM: It will. And yours can too. Call 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org.

GARY EICHTEN: 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org. Laura McCallum, these Voices of Minnesota conversations, we feature them regularly on Midday and people love them. Because these are real people talking about things that, you know, their life experiences, their passion. You just don't hear this kind of thing on other radio stations and other programs.

LAURA MCCALLUM: And Dan finds some fascinating people. And I'm sure all of you are fascinated with what Bob Janssen is saying about birding. Well, if that intrigues you, and if you're a birding fan, we have a special offer for you.

If you give us a call at 1-800-227-2811, as a thank you gift for pledging at the $10 a month level, we will send you his book, Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin. It's an illustrated field guide to 322 of the most notable or common species found in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Give us a call 1-800-227-2811.

GARY EICHTEN: Lots of interesting things day after day here on Midday. And I think those of you who listen regularly would agree with that. You hear full-length speeches, live National Press Club luncheons, documentaries. Just recently, we had that new American RadioWorks documentary, "My Name is Iran." Very, very interesting.

Full range that they call ins with the top flight newsmakers made possible by folks like yourself who've already become members and are doing their part. Now we're asking you to do what you can. $10 a month, if you'd like a copy of Bob Janssen's birder book, $20 a month, $1,000 or $100 a month, whatever works for you. 1-800-227-2811. I suppose $1,000 a month would be OK, too.

LAURA MCCALLUM: Works for me.

GARY EICHTEN: 1-800-227-2811 or click and join online at minnesotapublicradio.org.

LAURA MCCALLUM: Now, if you're a new listener to Minnesota Public Radio, you may be wondering what is this? What is this membership drive they're doing? Well, we found over the years that the most effective way of reaching out to the people that support this programming is simply by using this wonderful resource, our radio airwaves.

We come to you a couple of times a year, and we ask you that if this service is important to you and valuable to you and you rely on the news and information on Minnesota Public Radio, we ask you to join our ranks, the ranks of our members. There's a lot of you out there. But we need to hear from more of you. If everybody who listened became a member, boy, it's amazing to think of the kind of programming we could put on the air. You're going to be OK there, Gary?

GARY EICHTEN: I'll be just fine.

[LAUGHTER]

LAURA MCCALLUM: 1-800--

GARY EICHTEN: Excuse me.

LAURA MCCALLUM: 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org.

JERRY LEE: The thing I liked about Minnesota Public Radio was there was always a healthy balance. One of the alarming things lately is when you hear that TV and radio stations are being bought up by a very few number of people who are going to pretty much control what you listen to, what you hear. And because of all of that, you just simply need to pay up. I'm Jerry Lee and I'm a member of Minnesota Public Radio and have been for almost 30 years.

GARY EICHTEN: Again, thank you, Jerry. And we sure hope that those of you who've not yet had a chance to become a member, become a member. Join Jerry and do what you can to help pay for the programs on this station. 1-800-227-2811.

I want to talk just a moment about a new service that we were able to introduce because, again, of support from people who listened to the program and listen to all the programs on MPR. The opportunity for people to go online, send their questions directly into these call-in programs.

A lot of people are they can't call or they're kind of embarrassed and shy. You can send it in online now, a service that we were not able to provide years ago because we didn't have the money to. Got enough membership money in the kitty, and this was a service we were able to add. That's how we can put your money to work at 1-800-227-2811.

LAURA MCCALLUM: And I'm sure you find and I've heard some of these. These are the questions we get from our audience. These are amazing questions. We have smart listeners, and we know that. And that's why Gary most days opens up the phone lines and says, you ask the questions. And people respond.

And you even hear that on the national talk shows. You hear a lot of Minnesota callers on Talk of the Nation because we have a lot of curious and interesting and interested people in the state of Minnesota and the nearby states and the entire region.

If this programming is important to you, we're relying on you to help support it. The number to call is 1-800-227-2811. We have a very hefty goal, this drive. We're hoping to raise $1.9 million. And we can only do that if those of you who are listeners of Midday and listeners of the programming here become active members.

GARY EICHTEN: 1-800-227-2811. And if you are a special fan of birds, if you are a birder or want to learn more about birds, just a reminder that at the $10 a month level, which when you think about it is pretty, pretty inexpensive.

$10 a month for a full year, we'll send out as a special thank you gift Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin, Robert Janssen's book. An illustrated field guide to 322 of the most common or notable species of birds found in Minnesota and Wisconsin. Special thank you gift at 1-800-227-2811. We'll get back to with the conversation with Bob Janssen in just a moment.

LAURA MCCALLUM: 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call. Now, this is the hour that you usually hear great speeches. We're hearing Voices of Minnesota today. We've heard over the past few weeks on Midday speeches from Jimmy Carter, Madeleine Albright.

You're not going to hear those people everywhere on your radio dial. You know that. That's why we're asking you to make a commitment to this radio station and make your pledge of financial support. The number to call is 1-800-227-2811.

You don't just hear speeches on Midday. You hear a lot of great call-in programs. We had live coverage of the governor's State of the State address earlier this month. A lot of interesting legislative debates that you may not have a chance to hear.

Not everybody can come to the Capitol every day and find out what's going on there. There's a lot of bills moving through there, and a lot of interesting issues, and a lot of issues people need to know about. And they rely on Midday for that. You rely on Midday for that. Give us a call at 1-800-227-2811.

GARY EICHTEN: This is the first day of our spring membership drive and an important drive it is. $1.9 million is the total goal for this drive. That's a big, big number. But if we can make that goal, we can assure you some great quality programming here on Minnesota Public Radio 1-800-227-2811.

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APRIL SPAS: We have news magazines that might sit in a stack for a couple of days, newspapers that sometimes we barely get through. But when you're walking around doing your daily errands and your routine, you have MPR no matter where you are. So we just felt that we actually get more from MPR than we do from all those other services. My name is April Spas and I'm from Minneapolis, and I'm a member of Minnesota Public Radio's Leadership Circle.

GARY EICHTEN: And thank you very much, April. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call. That's our Midday. We're featuring a conversation with Robert Janssen, a 71-year-old Minnesotan who's been watching and learning about birds since he was a young boy.

He's the author of several books about birds, including Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin, the book that we're offering as a special thank you gift this hour. Let's get back to this special Voices of Minnesota broadcast with Mr. Janssen. We left off with Robert Janssen telling Minnesota Public Radio's Dan Olson about the decline of bird species in Minnesota.

DAN OLSON: Do you regard birds, especially the species that are declining as the proverbial canary in the coal mine, telling us that we are not doing a good job of sustaining the environment? Or is it not quite such a dire pronouncement that in fact, species rise and fall. We lose some, but overall it's not serious?

ROBERT JANSSEN: You hit the nail right on the head with the first statement. The birds are like the proverbial canary in the coal mine. They are one of the best-- again, not from my firsthand knowledge, but from scientific studies. Birds are the best indicator of a quality environment, whether you're talking about waterbirds or shorebirds or grassland birds or forest birds. A good bird population is an excellent example of good habitat.

DAN OLSON: With various Conservation Reserve Programs and other efforts by federal state government and with a county and local groups interested in setting aside habitat, won't we forestall the further decline of many of the bird populations?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Absolutely! And that's what's probably saved the birds that we have now are federal, state, county, city endeavors to set aside habitat. But look at what's happening now. Look at our present political situation which is totally against just what you just said.

It's more to treat the Earth as a commodity and use everything for humans and cut back on preserving habitats, cut more forests, plow up more grasslands, drain more wetlands. So everything is kind of-- not everything, but that's all in the 20th century starting with Theodore Roosevelt, the setting aside of National Wildlife refuges, the wonderful programs that the state of Minnesota has had with waterfowl production areas.

That's a federal program. Wildlife management areas that the state has had. State parks setting aside all of this. But how much do you see-- all of those programs are being cut back now just at the time when we need them the most when birds are really in the biggest-- or you don't have to only say birds, but my prejudice and passion is with birds and so I concentrate on birds. But it includes any other species, almost any other species you want to talk about.

DAN OLSON: You're listening to Voices of Minnesota conversation with Robert Janssen, one of Minnesota's best known birders. I'm Dan Olson. Minnesota was once dotted by prairie potholes now mostly drained. The state's northern forests have been altered by human activity.

The loss of wildlife habitat worries Bob Janssen. So, Bob Janssen, what in your mind is an example of the kind of thing that you see going wrong with preservation, species preservation? Maybe an example of the thing you see that's going right with species preservation.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, first of all, one thing that just pops in my mind when you ask that question, a few months ago or last spring, I was asked to testify to the governor's-- the governor set up an ad hoc citizens committee to investigate the problems with ATVs on trails and this kind of thing. And this committee went all over the state talking to people.

And I was asked to testify or to just talk with this group one time over at the DNR headquarters. And I got there, and I thought I was just going to talk to 10 people. And there are about 300 people there in the audience, and these 25 people. And I gave my little spiel on birds that those that are declining and gave some examples and those that are increasing.

And one gentleman asked me. He said, well, aren't there plenty of birds around? And I said, absolutely not, as far as I'm concerned. And then I gave the idea of the decline of species worldwide. And he said, well, what effect do ATVs have on bird populations?

Well, I said, take northern Minnesota where you run an ATV trail through a nice boreal bog and morning warblers and Connecticut warblers and all kinds of species of warblers are nesting there. You put that trail right through their habitat.

The best thing that I can think of, would you like that ATV trail to run through your backyard? Would it bother you? I said. I don't know if that's a good metaphor or a good example. But there's room for ATVs and birds, but they shouldn't be run through prime habitat.

DAN OLSON: So how resilient, how tough are birds so that ATV trail goes through some very desirable habitat? Do the birds-- sorry for this kind of humanization of birds here, but do they think--

ROBERT JANSSEN: All the time. We do it all the time.

DAN OLSON: So do the birds kind of think, well, darn it, it was a good place. These people are starting to make a lot of racket here. I'll just go over about five or 10 yards, and it'll be OK.

ROBERT JANSSEN: We used one of my favorite words, resilient. Birds are extremely resilient. They want to live as much as you and I do. And your example is a good one. They'll move to better habitat.

But take migratory birds. The best example I can think of is what we call neotropical migrants. They're birds that nest in Northern Minnesota, mixed deciduous boreal woods. They migrate thousands of miles to the rainforests of Central and South America. They do this twice a year.

So they get to-- and these are warblers, thrushes, flycatchers, all those various species. Again, neotropical migrants, they spend maybe four months in Minnesota, four months migrating or a couple of months migrating. And then they spend six months in Central or South America.

Get to South America, the rainforest is burned off, cut off, gone. They set up territories down there just like they do here for feeding territories. Those territories are gone. They can move to other territories, but if there's no other habitat left within the area that they're used to, we don't exactly know what happens to them.

But that's part of the decline. They've migrated to Northern Minnesota. The place where they had previously nested, cut off, burned up, plowed up, gone. If there's available habitat, they will move.

But if it's crowded with other birds, other of like species that are there, they don't breed. So they don't increase contributing to the decline. What I'm giving you is a short-- I mean, thousands of pages of scientific data have been compiled on this.

DAN OLSON: Bob Janssen has lots of recommendations for birdwatching in Minnesota. Bald eagles are common in the southeastern corner of the state near Lake Pepin on the Mississippi River. He's a big fan of birding in Western Minnesota's state and federal wildlife management areas. One of Janssen's favorite birdwatching spots is Hawk Ridge in the city of Duluth.

ROBERT JANSSEN: The hawk counts and hawk watching take place in the fall, anywhere from August to December. But in the middle of September, the largest number of hawks used the flyway. And the time when the big meetings and celebrations and get-togethers are around the 15th of September.

And this year, they recorded the largest number of hawks in a single day that have ever been seen at Hawk Ridge. And that was the day when 100,500 birds passed over Hawk Ridge in one day. It happened to be on a Monday. I think it was whatever that Monday closest to the 15th of September was. It's just fabulous! I wish I'd been there.

DAN OLSON: What in the world accounted for that, do you suppose? An anomaly? Just a happenstance?

ROBERT JANSSEN: No, no, I wouldn't say it's an anomaly. What caused that huge-- the previous high count for one day was 50-some thousand. So this actually doubled the previous. And they've been counting hawks at Hawk Ridge since the 1950s, '60s.

So this actually doubled the previous high day. But the thing that causes the birds to congregate in Duluth is the effect of Lake Superior, the shore of Lake Superior. And the birds coming from the north follow the shore. They don't migrate over water. And the rising thermals of warm air rising off the lake, off the land create these thermals which the birds use to migrate.

DAN OLSON: On September 15, where are they coming from and going to, the hawks?

ROBERT JANSSEN: They are coming from the north, generally Canada, northern Minnesota, Michigan, Ontario. They are going to-- the big flocks of broad winged hawks winter in Central America or Venezuela, in those areas.

DAN OLSON: I don't think of hawks as very social creatures. Are they traveling in flocks?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Oh, absolutely! They travel in what you call big-- they find large numbers of these birds. They may be individuals coming down from the north. But when they hit the shore of Superior, they ride on these thermals, these warm air currents.

They rise on the warm air currents in what you call kettles. I'm not sure where that word came from. But they're swirling masses of birds. And they find these rising thermals of air and they rise up on those.

And then when they get to the top of those, I don't know all the thermodynamics of how they work, but they get to the top of those. And then they can ride out and they don't have to flap their wings. They're using this as an energy saving. And they can glide for 10, 20 miles until they pick up another thermal.

Then they ride up and they ride out of that. And those concentrate like the end of a funnel at Duluth. And that's why you get the large concentrations in Duluth. It's a fabulous sight to see.

GARY EICHTEN: Minnesota ornithologist Robert Janssen talking with Minnesota Public Radio's Dan Olson, the latest installment in our Voices of Minnesota conversation series. Mr Janssens is one of the most influential birders in the state of Minnesota. He's the author of Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin. Now, in just a few minutes, we'll find out how birdwatching has influenced Janssen's philosophy of life.

GRETA CUNNINGHAM: Programming is supported by the Minnesota Association of Realtors, committed to being a voice for real estate in Minnesota, representing 18,000 professionals involved in all aspects of the residential and commercial real estate industries.

GARY EICHTEN: Lunch for our volunteers is provided by Highland Grill and Edina Grill, urban diner serving breakfast, lunch, dinner, beer and wine. Ford Parkway and Cleveland in St. Paul. 50th and France in Edina.

MALE: A Minnesota Public Radio member from Northfield writes.

FEMALE 1: My first day carpooling back in 1996, I was nervous to meet and ride with several strangers. When I got into the car, the radio was on and I felt right at home, Minnesota Public Radio. It turns a long drive into an education. We are so lucky to have this great radio service.

MALE: It's not just luck. It's listener contributions. Call 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org.

GARY EICHTEN: Boy, isn't that the truth, Laura McCallum. It is not just luck. It's not just serendipity that this ends up to be one of the nation's best radio services. It's because people have made that membership call, made the act of faith, decided what the heck, I'll try it and see if it works. Contributing $10 a month, $15 a month, $20 a month. 1-800-227-2811. We're asking you today to do your part.

LAURA MCCALLUM: And as people find out, you've talked about this before, you find out when you become a member, there's no unpleasant duties. You just have the pleasure of listening to this radio station and knowing you've done your part to support it. Now, you all have to make choices in terms of where you want to give your charitable contributions.

We hope that Minnesota Public Radio is a part of that. We're asking you to go to the phone. Call 1-800-227-2811 and you decide what this service is worth to you. Maybe you want to join at the Leadership Circle level, maybe $1,000 a month-- $1,000 a month? $100 a month or $1,000 is in your budget, and you feel that you rely on this.

We talk to people sometimes who listen six hours a day. Well, that's a pretty important part of your day. Or maybe you listen for an hour in the morning, an hour of midday, and an hour in the afternoon. Just think if that went away. You certainly don't want that to happen. So we're relying on you to go to the phone and call 1-800-227-2811.

GARY EICHTEN: Not a lot of people are interested in this kind of radio. And I can say that categorically because if it were the other-- if there were millions of people who were interested in full length speeches, call-ins, documentaries, and the rest, you can bet your bottom dollar that this kind of programming be all over the radio dial.

It isn't because millions of people aren't that interested in it. But you are interested in it. And if you'll make a call, we'll be able to continue to provide this kind of programming day after day here on Minnesota Public Radio. 1-800-227-2811.

And a birder alert, birder alert. If you're interested in Bob Janssen's Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin, all you have to do to get a copy of that book is make a pledge at $10 a month. We'll send that out to you as a special thank you gift, $10 a month.

If you prefer some music at the $15 per month level, we have a special Minnesota Public Radio CD pack, The Essential Bob Dylan, a two-CD set, plus Norah Jones new CD Feels Like Home. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call.

LAURA MCCALLUM: Or you can click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org. We find a lot of people like to join that way. It's quick. It's convenient. You go to the website. And while you're there, you can check out all of the news and information background and stories and interviews. You can even listen to Midday on the web.

Maybe some of you are doing that right now and submit your questions to the guests that way. And we know a lot of you go to our website and rely on that for times when you can't get to the radio. So whichever way you listen to Minnesota Public Radio, we're asking you to go to the phone or go to the web. Call 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org.

BILL KLING: Minnesota Public Radio is the strongest public radio service in the country. And that's because we have such varied and generous support from you. I'm Bill Kling, president of Minnesota Public Radio.

This past year alone, we launched Speaking of Faith, which explores spirituality. Hundreds of thousands of listeners made Minnesota Public Radio their choice for in-depth, responsive newscasts and analysis of the war in Iraq and its aftermath. And Minnesota Public Radio added new stations for its news and information service in Fergus Falls, Austin, and Brainerd.

As a listener, you believe in the work of Minnesota Public Radio. Chances are that you want to ensure that Minnesota Public Radio will be a force for good in the lives of generations of listeners to come. You can do that by contributing now. Go to minnesotapublicradio.org or call 1-800-227-2811.

GARY EICHTEN: Lots of people are doing just that. 1-800-227-2811 and we have an open line with your name on it. No busy signal here. You'll be able to get right through. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call.

LAURA MCCALLUM: In case you haven't been able to listen every day over the past few weeks, we hope you do. But if you haven't, here's some of the things that you would have heard on Minnesota Public Radio on the Midday program. Live coverage of Governor Pawlenty's State of the State. We've had a lot of coverage of the presidential campaign.

Democratic candidate Dennis Kucinich was on with Gary. Last week, we've had Collins with Senator Mark Dayton, David Jennings from the Minneapolis school system, former Republican State US Senator Dave Durenberger on health care costs. These are the kinds of programs and guests that you're going to hear on the Midday program.

We know that's important to you. We know that's why we have a very diverse audience listening to Midday and calling in for our call-in programs. We hear from a lot of you. You have good questions. You're curious. You want to know what's going on in the world. And we're also counting on you to go to the phone and help us out to pay for this kind of programming. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call.

GARY EICHTEN: Under the category of what have you done for me lately, Laura, a little sneak preview here of things coming up in the next week or so on Midday. Gail Sheehy tomorrow, author Gail Sheehy. On Monday, The Movie Maven will be here--

LAURA MCCALLUM: Oh, gotta love that.

GARY EICHTEN: -on the heels of the Academy Awards. Always a fun program. Tuesday, we're going to focus on the precinct caucuses. Wednesday, we're going to focus on Super Tuesday, the day after. Thursday, we're going to talk to the governor.

LAURA MCCALLUM: Great.

GARY EICHTEN: Jack Gillis will be joining us. We'll be talking about new cars. People will get a chance to get some tips there. Mark Seeley will be joining us next week to talk about the weather. A full range of subjects, a full range of personalities, full range of opportunities for you to learn a little bit more frankly about your world. Hope you enjoy it. Give us a call if you do, 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org.

LAURA MCCALLUM: And one more thing, if you join now, we will send you-- if you join at the $10 a month level, we'll send you that book Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin by birder Bob Janssen, the man you're listening to this hour with all sorts of information on birds throughout Minnesota and Wisconsin.

If that's your area of expertise or your area of interest, give us a call. Pledge $10 a month at 1-800-227-2811 or click and join at minnesotapublicradio.org. We thank you so much for your support.

APRIL SPAS: We have a lot of friends who believe that reading The New York Times is the thing that they should do. And they really don't concentrate on a lot of local issues and policies. And I believe that all politics are local.

And if you really want to know what's going on in your community, the best place to go is MPR. I believe it makes me the most informed person about what's going on right in my neighborhood, and I'm getting that from Minnesota Public Radio. My name is April Spas and I'm from Minneapolis, and I'm a member of Minnesota Public Radio's Leadership Circle.

GARY EICHTEN: And thank you, April, for your contribution. I hope you can join her, 1-800-227-2811. This hour or Midday, we're featuring a Voices of Minnesota conversation with Minnesota birdwatcher Robert Janssen, the author of several books about birds, Birds in Minnesota, kind of a bible, also Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin.

And next up, during this conversation, Mr. Janssen is going to take us on a short tour of his home. And we're going to find out which types of bird feeders that he uses in his backyard. Here again is Voices of Minnesota producer Dan Olson.

DAN OLSON: Prints and watercolors of loons, owls, and other birds hang on Robert Janssen's office walls. A smaller black and white photograph of ravens hangs right above his desk. This one keeps catching my eye. We have three ravens or crows up here at the top.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Oh, that's a Jim Brandenburg photograph, my favorite Jim Brandenburg photo. And Jim has given-- for our next book on Minnesota birds, that's going to be the frontispiece of the new book. And it shows three crows-- common ravens like they're talking to one another, like birders asking, tell me about that bird that you saw.

DAN OLSON: The back room of Bob Janssen's house is mostly windows. Outside, the backyard slopes down to a swamp on the edge of Lake Riley. Janssen has six feeders near the windows.

Well, we have a real catalog here of feeders. And I suppose people wondering, OK, Bob Janssen, what should I go to the store and buy in the way of feeders? You've obviously been to the store and bought a few.

ROBERT JANSSEN: I work at a wild bird store in wild bird store in Wayzata. It's been a new venture for me to learn all about bird feeding, which is different from bird watching. But the thing that we get-- my wife and I get the most kick out of bird feeding is the suet feeders.

We have on that hanging log feeder the pileated comes every day, two flickers-- downy and hairy woodpeckers and the red bellied woodpecker. And they come right up here. Usually, the pileated feeds right out here. And there's juncos and tree sparrows and nuthatches and chickadees. And then of course, you get house sparrows.

DAN OLSON: In just a moment ago, a great big fat squirrel down the hill from us here is your kind of diversionary feeder.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, I have a diversionary. It's called a wildlife feeder. I put that down in the woods to keep the squirrels away from the house.

DAN OLSON: Does it work?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Yeah, well, no, not totally. Nothing ever. Squirrels are smarter than human beings, and they know how to get at feeders. But they like that corn, that whole corn and crack corn down there. And you keep it 50 feet, 100 feet away from the main feeders. And they seem to prefer that.

DAN OLSON: Do you feed year round?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Yes. Springtime we feed orioles. And all summer, I feed birds. And then in August, there are lots of hummingbird feeders. And yep, I feed all year round.

DAN OLSON: Robert Janssen credits birding with helping him understand the meaning of life. After retirement, he attended a seminary. He's reluctant to call himself a religious person. He says he's interested in how our lives draw meaning from the natural world.

How has your work? How has your avocation, your amateur science? How has that affected your life in terms of your broader view of the world, in terms of your philosophy of life? What have you done with it?

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, my philosophy of life is that we, and when I say we, it's with a capital W. We are all interconnected. Every living thing is interconnected. And I think my philosophy revolves around that idea that we as human beings, if we're going to show our intelligence, the best way we can show our intelligence is to realize that.

Not by the edifices that we create or the wars we win or the money we make or this, but to know that we are interconnected with the world. And there is a force behind this world and this universe. The universe that you can call a spiritual force.

You can name it God. You can name it Buddha. You can name it whatever you want. But it's made me realize that there's this beautiful force that I want to connect with and through birds as my connection. But there's so many-- there's an infinite number of ways that you can connect with this.

DAN OLSON: So it sounds like you've become a religious man as a result of this experience.

ROBERT JANSSEN: I would like to say I've become a spiritual man more so. Religion makes you think of the organized church. Although I'm part of an organized church, but I like to think of myself as a spiritual being.

I've dealt with the scientific community all my life, and I find it very interesting. Oh, take the author like E.O. Wilson, who is a famous science writer and discounts the spiritual side of life. Yet he sounds like one of the best theologians I've ever read.

So I think the scientific community, I think the religious community is really missing the boat and not-- oh, that's maybe a drastic statement to make. But I think they're missing a lot in the quality of life. That's why I want to see birds preserved on the landscape because that's part of our quality of life. It's part of our spiritual being to be connected with this larger world, this larger force.

DAN OLSON: I wonder how far that goes. I wonder which direction that goes because, of course, a lot of spiritual people are interested in the environment and vice versa. But a lot of religious people are interested in preservation of souls, the eternal reward. I mean, I don't see churches that I know of so much oriented towards what sounds like a passion to you, which is saving the environment.

ROBERT JANSSEN: You're absolutely right. If you want to really make a general statement, the church has been about saving souls. But to me, what better project could be than saving the creation.

The first book of Genesis, it talks about the creation. And God saw that it was good. So when we destroy what is good, we're destroying what God said was good.

So besides saving our own souls, which I suppose is an admirable project, I think at least secondly or at least primary should be our saving of the environment. Because life is all about quality and the environment is what sustains that quality.

DAN OLSON: Bob Janssen, thank you so much for your time and talking with us about birds in Minnesota.

ROBERT JANSSEN: Well, it was nothing I'd rather do than talk about birds. Thank you.

DAN OLSON: Robert Janssen is one of Minnesota's best known birders and the author of Birds in Minnesota. He expects the new book he's co-authoring about birds and what's happening to them to be ready for publication in three years. Dan Olson, Minnesota Public Radio.

GARY EICHTEN: And this is Midday coming to you on Minnesota Public Radio.

GRETA CUNNINGHAM: Programming is supported by Alliance Francaise, a non-profit organization that promotes use and appreciation of French language and culture. More information on classes and cultural programs at afmsp.org or 612-332-0436.

GARY EICHTEN: You're tuned to 91.1 KNOW-FM Minneapolis and St. Paul. We have a partly cloudy sky, 36 degrees in the Twin Cities. And it should be partly cloudy all afternoon. It's about as warm as it's going to get with a high right in the mid-30s.

Tonight, partly cloudy, overnight low 15 to 20. And then tomorrow, it should be a little bit warmer. Now, I know we promised that yesterday. But the weather service says tomorrow, we can expect a high of 40 to 45 degrees under a partly cloudy sky.

Same kind of weather then on Friday, partly cloudy with a high near 45. Over the weekend, the weather turns a little wetter. We can expect rain both on Saturday and on Sunday. It's six minutes now before 1 o'clock. Laura McCallum is back. And Laura--

LAURA MCCALLUM: Hello!

GARY EICHTEN: This first day of our spring membership drive perking right along?

LAURA MCCALLUM: Absolutely! But it's a big drive. It's a very important drive because we're hoping to raise $1.9 million over the next week or so, a little over a week. And so every day is very vital to us.

We are asking those of you that listen to Minnesota Public Radio and rely on Minnesota Public Radio for your news and information to give us a call at 1-800-227-2811 and tell us how much you value the programming and actually put your money where your support is. Actually, write a check, give us your credit card number.

Tell us that you want to join the thousands of Minnesotans and people from nearby states who have also made a similar leap of faith and said, you know what, we support this programming. And we're actually going to put some dollars behind it. Call 1-800-227-2811 right now or go to minnesotapublicradio.org and you can join online.

GARY EICHTEN: 1-800-227-2811. Really love to hear from all of you who listen to Midday, especially it is as we've said many, many times, not a typical program, not a typical radio program. Yes, we have newsmaker call-ins. But you also hear these full length documentaries, interesting conversations, our Voices of Minnesota series.

You hear the full length speeches that are recorded all around the country. You hear the National Press Club luncheons, lots of things that are not available on other programs, not a mega market for this kind of thing. But I think you find that to be a useful service.

And if you're one of those folks, give us a call here, 1-800-227-2811. or click and join online at minnesotapublicradio.org. Maybe you liked the debate of sorts that we had on the air on these legislative issues. Gay marriage initiative and referendum. The smoking ban, gambling. Boy, they were all lively, Laura.

LAURA MCCALLUM: They were very lively. I was witness to a couple of them because they took place in my office. And yeah, these are some tough issues But frankly, we know that you want to hear these issues debated, and you don't just want to hear black and white, two sides of the story. Because a lot of stories, there are more than two sides.

And you're going to hear the range of opinions on Midday and on Minnesota Public Radio. We're going to have some great-- you'll hear great guests. And then you're also going to hear from callers that illustrate examples and have good questions about these issues.

And the guest we've had on this hour, birder Bob Janssen, at the end of the show, he said nothing I'd rather do than talk about birds. That's just indicates the kind of passion that we try to tap into when we find great guests for Midday and for Voices of Minnesota and for these other programs. We hope that's important to you. If it is, we're asking you to go to the phone, call 1-800-227-2811.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

GARY EICHTEN: I'm mad as heck. And I'm not going to take it anymore. That's not quite angry enough. I'm mad as heck! And I'm not going to take it anymore!

LAURA MCCALLUM: Hey, what are you doing?

GARY EICHTEN: Oh, just getting ready for our mad in Minnesota pack.

LAURA MCCALLUM: It's the Made in Minnesota Pack.

GARY EICHTEN: Not mad?

LAURA MCCALLUM: Nope.

GARY EICHTEN: You mean, I got all worked up for nothing?

GRETA CUNNINGHAM: The Made in Minnesota Pack. Celebrate Minnesota with a commemorative 30th anniversary of Prairie Home companion mug made by Red Wing pottery, a pound of dark roast Guatemalan Peace Coffee roasted in the Twin Cities, and The Essential Bob Dylan, a two-CD set with 30 of his greatest hits. Contribute just $20 a month and celebrate Minnesota with us. Join at minnesotapublicradio.org or call 800-227-2811.

LAURA MCCALLUM: 1-800-227-2811. Is the number to call. I'm going to give you the number because Gary is just too mad to talk right now. He didn't quite get the--

GARY EICHTEN: Sputtering, sputtering.

LAURA MCCALLUM: We're asking you to make a contribution of financial support to Minnesota Public Radio, to that place on the radio dial that you know you can tune to every day and you know you're going to hear high quality, in-depth programming. You're not going to hear commercials. You are going to hear a couple of membership drives a couple times a year, because that's our way of going to the people who support the programming.

And we try to make these drives quick and painless. When you pledge your financial support, we'll make that quick and painless too. The important thing is that you say, I believe in this programming. I support it. And I'm going to put my money there. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call.

GARY EICHTEN: Birder alert, birder alert. If you are interested in picking up a copy of Bob Janssen's Birds of Minnesota and Wisconsin, a last call here, $10 a month pledge, and we will send that out to you as a special thank you gift during this membership drive. $10 a month at 1-800-227-2811.

If you'd like to beef up your music collection, we also have a special thank you gift for you. $15 a month pledge, we will send out the new Norah Jones CD as well as the. Two CD Bob Dylan set, The Essential Bob Dylan. That's $15 a month pledge. Whatever level works for you, 1-800-227-2811 or click and join online at minnesotapublicradio.org.

LAURA MCCALLUM: Now, a short time ago, Gary gave a preview of what's coming up on Midday over the next week. And that was just completely illustrative of the kinds of programs you hear here. Governor Tim Pawlenty will take your calls one day next week. We're going to have a lot on the caucuses that are Tuesday night, both prior to the caucuses, in case there are people who don't understand how they work, what's at stake in the caucuses.

There will be a binding presidential preference ballot on the Democratic side. And people rely on Minnesota Public Radio to find out about that. We know that a lot of you who listen are political junkies, news junkies. And frankly, we take pride in being able to provide you in-depth political coverage that you're not going to find too many places.

A lot of stations have cut back on news, a lot of radio stations. A lot of places you're only going to hear the headlines. You're not going to hear a four-minute story about a particular issue at the Capitol or an hour-long call-in program with Robert Reich talking about economic issues.

If that's important to you, we're counting on you to help us reach this goal during our membership drive and expand our base of members. 1-800-227-2811 is the number to call or go to minnesotapublicradio.org, our website, and you can click there. You'll also find out about all the thank you gifts there.

GARY EICHTEN: 1-800-227-2811. Laura, I'd like to thank you for coming in today. I'd like to thank everybody who has already called in or clicked in with our membership pledge on this first day. Keep the phones ringing here, friends. Big goal to meet. It's an important goal to meet and you can help. 1-800-227-2811.

FEMALE 2: I think that we use MPR to provide the glue for the community. Issues that are important to us in Minnesota are on MPR and they're on.