(00:00:00) Good morning from Minnesota Public Radio. I'm William wilcoxen more than 20 busloads of minnesotans are on their way to Washington DC today to join a major anti-war demonstration held there this weekend hundreds of protesters boarded the buses this morning in Minneapolis many carrying homemade anti-war signs along with their pillows and duffel bags. Brian Schwartz came to Minneapolis from his home in Alexandria to join the Caravan to Washington. He says it's important for the country to understand that thousands of everyday citizens are dedicated to demonstrating their disapproval of u.s. Plans to go to war with Iraq. We're willing to put in the money to ride the bus and we're willing to sacrifice our time vacation and time away from our families to send a clear and strong message to George Bush and anybody from the two parties are supporting this war that we're going to build a majority in this country to say that their anti-war anti-war protests are also scheduled in several other US cities this weekend Bill introduced in the Minnesota house yesterday would remove the state's prohibition against marriages between first cousins. Bill sponsored by DF Elders Phyllis Kahn of Minneapolis and sight out of st. Paul they say recent scientific studies conclude. The children of first cousins are at no greater risk of genetic defects than others Tao one of two Hmong legislators said such unions are not uncommon in that culture to st. Cloud High School students are accused of killing one boy's father and then telling your friends about it Jason maclennan and Matthew molar both 17 are each charged as adults with first-degree murder. They're accused in this week's shooting death of Jason's father 53 year old Ken maclennan of st. Cloud Jason maclennan. Allegedly shot his father using a gun molar provided Skies becoming mostly cloudy today over Northern Minnesota. Mostly sunny in the south high temperatures from the teens to the lower 20s for the Twin Cities. Mostly sunny with a high around 20 degrees right now in Moorhead. It's sunny and one above and in the Twin Cities sunny and eight degrees, I'm William Wilcox and Minnesota Public Radio. All right. Thank you William. It is six minutes now past eleven o'clock. And good morning. Welcome to midday in Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten Governor. Tim pawlenty has now failed most of the top positions in his administration. As you heard on the news the governor this morning announced that he's appointed former dfl state. Senator, Jeanne Miriam to serve as the new commissioner of the Department of Natural Resources yesterday. He named Sherry Pearson yucky to serve as the State's new education commissioner both face some daunting challenges. They both had major agencies at traditionally have engendered lots of lively debate, but they are not alone joining us. Today is Peter Bell the new chair of the Metropolitan Council another agency that has found itself right in the middle of some very contentious debates over the years met council is the regional planning Agency for the Twin Cities metropolitan area. It also operates the transit and wastewater treatment systems in the Twin Cities now none of those missions on the surface anyway, It seemed to generate much controversy, but the console has raised lots of hackles with its recent emphasis in what's called smart growth critics say the council has been dominated by liberal social Engineers who want to tell people how and where to live in the words of Minnesota's new state auditor Pat owada quote. The console is tried to push its philosophy down everybody's throat well into the breach steps. Mr. Bell longtime Republican activist who is an executive vice president at the Hazelton Foundation. He's a member of the University Minnesota Board of Regents former executive at Twin City or TCF Financial Corporation. He joins us today to share some of his thoughts on the future of the Metropolitan Council and as since he's just taking over new to the job. We thought this would be a good opportunity for you to share with Peter Bell your thoughts on some of the key issues facing the council development transit in the rest. What would you like to see the council do give us a call here at 6512276 thousand 65122 Even 6,000 outside the Twin Cities you can reach us toll-free and that number is 1-800-218-4243 or 1-800-222-8477. He's great to be with you congratulations or condolences with (00:04:15) also that's an order David light. I'll tell you I've learned more about Sewer Service than I ever thought I would know. So I'll tell you my first week on the job has been really great fun and very exhilarating. I'm just tickled pink to be in this role. I'm very appreciative of the governor's confidence in (00:04:34) me. It does seem like a pretty tough job What attracted you to (00:04:38) it? Well, I've always liked public policy questions and issues and and in this is really at the heart of many important public policy debates around housing as you mentioned Transit kind of the planning functions of the the Met Council. You and your introduction a couple of times that mentioned the we are planning agency. And certainly we are but many people really don't realize how significant the operational side of the Met council is We Run The Metropolitan transit system 70 million rides a year a budget of over 200 million dollars includes Metro Mobility that we run the the sewer systems for a hundred thirty municipalities in the seven-county metro area that is really a self-sustaining activity. And of course where the HRA for the many Suburban communities as well and if truth be told that's probably 80 to 90 percent of our total activity. The planning portion of met council is a much smaller component of it and it's where most of the controversy lies (00:05:49) well for better or worse. I think it's fair to say that the Metropolitan Council has a much higher profile today. Than a dead even four years ago it is that good or (00:05:59) bad? Well, I think you would depend on who you would ask, you know as interesting II talk to someone I said it in my first couple of months. I want to get out and talk to a number of people and listen to see what themes emerge and This Woman's very why she said two themes will emerge one of the Met Council has too much power the other it has two little ones covers the Waterfront pretty well covers the Waterfront. I do think my predecessor Ted Mondale did did an excellent job of raising the visibility of the the Met Council and helping people understand what its role is and I think he should be given credit for that. One of the things the governor said to me upon pointing. He's Peter. I'm looking for you to lead and to me that that calls upon a fair degree of visibility that we go with that. Hmm. Well, do we (00:06:53) need Metropolitan eight? Especially given the budget problems the state faces and the rest do we need this agency at all? (00:07:04) I would say yes now again, I've been there a week but Gary I would say unequivocally. Yes, we do need someone to run the the bus service and to run though, the the waste water activities and I think some of the housing activities we do I'm you think the planning functions are unnecessary really we are Regional citizens. We aren't just citizens of Minneapolis are or Bloomington are rich field or Lakeville. We are we are Regional citizens and what one municipality does impacts another municipality. So there needs to be some degree of coordination and and to some and sometimes a degree of mediation between municipalities when when what one Unity does in terms of their growth patterns will impact another communities choices and options. And so then I think a regional body that does that is important. We are really the body we have is the Envy of the nation. The only comparable one is important. I do think however, there are questions of accountability with that to me. The question of is the Met Council needed the answer is yes is the Met Council accountable enough given the power it has I think that's an open question and not tend to say no (00:08:30) and that raises the question that I assume does that mean that the I console should be elected right. Now the governor appoints the members and presumably indirectly the council is very accountable (00:08:42) through the governor. Yeah, I think that needs to be looked at as with all public policy questions. There's pluses and minuses. There are no clear-cut answers. The world is full of Grey. That's kind of a 51/49 question. There are advantages to an elected Council clearly the issue of accountability. You know, when you vote for a city council person you are not just voting for that individual but you are really voting to authorize the office and the institution. I think that that's a good thing you would get you would get elections are ways in which the public gets educated to a wide range of public policy issues mandates get created as a result of Elections. Those are all pluses. Some of the downside is that people will then start looking at their geographic region, they need to represent that that notion of regional citizenship might get lost and that's that could be problematic. But this Governor is very intent upon increasing accountability at all levels of a government including the mayor council and one of the directives, I think I have from him is Peter look at how this body that has taxing Authority. Every authority and policymaking authority can in fact be more accountable (00:10:00) first thing really you have to deal with is a was a two and a half million dollar budget cut. Where's that money going to come from the short timeframe (00:10:10) involved? Yes, 2.6 million dollars in you're right Gary. That's a frightening a number for anyone and it has to become those dollars have to be saved by June 30th. And really we're looking at three separate buckets. Most of that is it's about a 4% reduction of our 65 million dollar general fund appropriation is what we're being asked to do about 25% of is going to come from some minor adjustments and bus service. This is not going to quit when they're going to be very very minor. Some routes may not have is as many buses running on them. The frequency of services will be curtailed a bit. We have some federal dollars that we can. Use for Capital expenditures in the the federal government allows us to use some of those for operating expenditures now, that's that's dangerous because if you do too much of that then you're really eating your seed corn youth your future ability to purchase other buses is is obviously limited eliminated about 25% of its going to come from that and about 50% from administrative reductions. We're going to do less advertising reducing some Physicians out State travel in the like (00:11:29) Peter Bell is with us. He is the new chair of the Metropolitan Council and he's joined us today to share some of his broader thoughts on the direction future of the Metropolitan Council and also he's here to take your suggestions and ideas on what you would like to see the council get itself involved with what direction you'd like to see the council follow if you'd like to join our conversations 6 5 1 2 2 7 6065 12276 thousand outside the Twin Cities one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight great opportunity to get the ear of the new chair of the Metropolitan Council bath. Your first go ahead. Please scary. This will really date me but I moved here because of the Metropolitan about three decades ago there. National attention through the National Geographic article on the Met Council and all the good things that were happening in the Twin City area. At that time Minneapolis got recognition because of its on ramps and and traffic safety and traffic flow. I mean, it was really Forward Thinking at that time and it seems to me things have just gotten worse and worse and worse. We have not been forward-thinking. We have been reactionary. All we talked about doing is building more highways which will add two more congestion. It's less efficient. I think I have lived in large cities in New York and other large cities. I have been to other large cities you have to plan for the future. You have to think about mass transit and while it may not be efficient just for this day or this decade. It's going to be really needed in the future and I wish you well. Mr. Bell. (00:13:17) Thank you so much Beth, you know, I would agree with much of what the caller said. I think if you looked at if you did a poll of residence in the seven-county metro area and said, what are the Three or four or five most pressing livability questions that you have traffic congestion would be at or near the top of that list and and that's just something I know this Governor takes seriously and I certainly do as the head of the Met Council something. I'm going to be looking very very closely at (00:13:53) the bus system. Which what you folks operate everybody seems to pay lip service to the bus system. Oh, we love buses buses are good, but has have you folks got enough money over the years seems like the Metropolitan Council has consistently said, we need more money for buses. If we're going to provide a good bus service in the Twin Cities metropolitan area. So people would actually use the bus (00:14:17) system. Yeah. Well, you know any agency had is going to say they don't have enough money to go to do what they need. And so it's kind of a relative question. I think that that your listeners should know we have a World-class bus system here ridership is increased over 18 percent over the past five years. We almost have a thousand buses over 33 million miles of service. We provide each year to 70 million customers on a hundred thirty different routes. Do we have enough? Can we do better? There always are writers are also very happy with our services about 95% Give us a high marks for the service. They provide we have to run the bus system in the seven-county metro area, like like Nordstrom's runs their department store or Marshall Field's our Target. We have to be very customer friendly as to be safe. The buses have to be on time. They have to be clean and very accessible. You know, I'm going to be looking very closely at our bus system to see where we can improve it. Should we have dedicated? Slains with high-speed bus services expressed by services that bring people into the metropolitan area 40% of the people that work in Downtown Minneapolis. Take the bus 20% that live and work in downtown st. Paul take the bus 11% of bus riders are from the University of Minnesota something that I know a little bit about being a regent there. That is something that I think we can always strive to improve on and something I'll be given a great deal of attention to (00:16:01) the Hiawatha light rail line in retrospect. Was that good decision or a bad decision, (00:16:08) you know, I'm not sure I think the proof is going to be when it's up in operational it we're going to have the first it's 67 percent completed. Now, the the line will will it's 11 miles. It will start in April of 04 and supposedly be fully operational we plan on being Fully operational in December of 04 we're very intent upon one of the first things I said is that this line is got to come in on budget and on time supposed to have we'll see if the ridership numbers. My hope is the ridership numbers will work. We're going to have to reconfigure some of our bus service to accommodate that and we certainly will look at that. We're going to look at the development that it it may generate but I think the proof is going to be in the pudding. I'm going to do everything possible to make it a success, but the the that story will not be told for a couple of years (00:17:15) Patrick your comment, please hi. Good afternoon, I guess and I want to be sure I frame this question right? I'm not trying to play God share anything. But of course I'm talking about Transportation. It seems like that right now the reason why Such a big issue and it's such a huge problem. Is that the legislature in the Met Council are trying to deliver a service the public is asking for a service and legislators tried to deliver a service that's really impossible and what the public wants if you were to ask him if they say well I want to drive during rush hour in congestion free traffic and I want to drive by myself. And in my opinion, I don't think we can design a transportation system where 90% of the people drive by themselves and sit in, you know, go through rush-hour traffic without sitting in gridlock. And my question to you would be do you share my belief that matter that that they're really in I hate to use the term behavior modification because it sounds so most social engineering there. Yeah, and it just seems to me that that's one aspect where the public We need to be educated about it just explained to him that we can go ahead and we can build more roads like they did in Atlanta like they did in San Diego and what you did in LA but if you go to those places there rush hours are disasters and the traffic's even worse. So I'd like to get your opinions on the matter and I totally understand if you don't want to answer it because I know that sometimes the answers are the most popular in the world. (00:18:54) No. Well, you know, I think that you Patrick raise a very good point. I'm not sure I would cosine all of it. But what I think that we you know, you said that the public wants to drive in a in a vehicle by themselves during rush hour and that the the policymakers in the state simply can't accommodate that and and I think there's some truth to that but what I think people want is is also options and I think that if we can provide people Ops, I don't think everybody does want to drive in rush hour in by themselves and in Um a car I think our bus system shows that that large numbers of people want RN are open to Alternative modes of transportation, and I don't know that we need to modify anybody's Behavior. What we need to do is make sure people is pay the cost of whatever Behavior they're engaged in and and some people will be willing to pay that cost and other people will not I think if we provide people other options and and allow the cost of individual decision to come through that creates, its that creates kind of a market-based modification and behavior, you know our bus service one of the nice things about our bus services is that about a third of the cost is paid for by the consumer just about Justin right around 30 cents out of each Transit dollar comes from the fare box. That's that's higher than many comparably situated cities and And frankly, I think that's a good thing. I think when people pay the cost of their of their behavior, then they can make informed decisions. And so if we provide people more options and allow much of the cost to come through people will make will operate in their own best (00:20:47) interest Ron your comment for the new chairman a couple of them one instead of Light Rail. I think it would be better for the metro area if fuel-efficient buses running on fuel cells or propane were purchased because that affects the whole transit system not just one Corridor and the other comment is on the on the bus system. I rode the bus a lot and one of the things I didn't like about riding the bus was a bus stopped every block no matter what route you wrote on except, you know, the freeway Express buses and what I'd like to see is a bus on normal routes like Nicholas Avenue, stop every ten blocks be an Express line and then people would walk to the you know to those stops and get on all at once rather than stopping every block. (00:21:42) Okay? Well, I think the caller is a good point and as I indicated a few minutes ago thats something I want to look at very closely dedicated bus lines more Express buses fuel-efficient buses. That's a compelling idea to me and and the the the BET were playing the cost of that if we're wrong is is not huge. So that's something I'm going to really explore. (00:22:09) Now one of the policies that has been emphasized the last few years. The Metropolitan council is the idea of linking together various aspects of I don't know for lack of a better term managing growth so that you you plan your Transit options along with your your higher density housing along with Development in a given area and so (00:22:32) is that is that approach a good one or should those salad functions be separated out. So if you're going to talk about (00:22:39) transportation, for example, (00:22:41) you (00:22:42) your focus really isn't getting people from A to B and not worry so much about surrounding (00:22:49) development it Gary. We're really looking at that. I think the concept of having development both commercial and Housing Development along Transit corridors makes sense just because of an efficient use of resources to what extent we should induce communities to do that. I think is an open question, but it's it to me. It is hard to construct an argument that that scattered site development is is an efficient use of resources now should people in communities be allowed to do that. Probably should they pay the cost of doing that? Yes, I mean if You wanted to be on a two and a half Laker a lot with the septic tank. I think you should have the freedom to do that. If the septic tank leaks into the groundwater should you be held accountable for the pollution that results from that? Yeah, I do think you should be and if you want to be hooked up to Sewer Service later, should you bear the cost of that are have a row come out to you. Should you bear the cost of that? Yeah. I think you should bear closer to the cost of that. So what (00:24:03) in that set off a round of hulls (00:24:07) everything that you do sets up around. How's Gary but but I think it's hard to argue that the whole notion of subsidy that we should subsidize. Someone else's decisions is a hard one to to make particularly in the austere budget environment that we exist in so I think words I think coordination is needed. I think Regional citizenship is a viable concept. I think infill development makes sense. You know Minneapolis had 500,000 residents 20 30 years ago and now has 385,000 resonance. There's a lot of opportunities for infill development where we already have roads and Sewer lines. Should we do this in a manner that really respects local decision-making local the character of local communities. Absolutely and Gary. It's finding that (00:25:04) balance was going to say should communities have the opportunity to say to the Metropolitan Council and anyone else. Hey, we're not interested in this. We're just not interested. We know there are you know going to be supposedly another million people moving here and 20 25 years, whatever it is, but they can go somewhere else. We've got our deal. We like what we've got people have made their choice and take (00:25:30) Plans elsewhere. Well, you know they would be ideal if what is that that that saying that no, man is an island. Well, in fact Gary no Community is an island and if a community could say we've got our deal we were elected officials. We're going to control our municipality totally and it didn't affect an adjacent municipality or the region that would be fine. But the reality is is that it does and as a result, I think our Visionary leaders who set up the Met Council realized that we are a region and that we do impact each other and that it's a little bit of the knee bones connected to the thigh bone and the thigh bone is connected to the hip bone. You do one thing in one community and it does impact growth patterns and housing and Commercial development in schools and another community and and a regional body that is aware of that and Tries to put some coordination of that I believe is needed (00:26:36) Peter Bell is with us. He is the new chair of the Metropolitan Council and he's joined us today to talk about his vision for the Metropolitan Council and also to take your suggestions now, we have a full Bank of callers here. Let me give you the number though jot it down and then give us a call here in a couple of minutes, six five. One two, two seven six thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight 286512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight like to get your suggestions on the air and it will get back to more callers here in just a couple of minutes kids. Sometimes take odd jobs to help with family finances. But what happens when the working child is the main Breadwinner (00:27:14) my relationship with my mom was always based on business things at the expense of our familial relationship. There was a time when I was 15 or 16 where I just you know, I don't want you involved with this anymore because I want you to be Mom I'm David brancaccio child labor in the global (00:27:33) economy our special series (00:27:34) begins Monday on Marketplace from PRI (00:27:37) marketplaces are on the air weeknights at 6:30 here on Minnesota public radio right now William wilcoxen is on the air with some headlines with him. Thanks, Gary. Tom Ridge says the nation has a long fight ahead of it as he nears Senate confirmation to head the new Homeland Security Department Rich tells a senate panel that terrorists can take many forms have many places to hide and are often invisible Democrats used ridges confirmation hearing to criticize President Bush's response to terrorism as to week. The Senate government Relations Committee is expected to move quickly on the nomination. The White House says the discovery of chemical Warheads in Iraq is more evidence that Saddam Hussein is not disarming President. Bush's spokesman calls a troubling and serious. He says Iraq did not mention the warheads and its weapons declaration. Iraq says, it did a speech from Saddam Hussein on the 12th anniversary of the Persian Gulf War indicates. The Iraqi leader is ready for another fight. In a 40-minute address Saddam called on his people to rise up and defend the nation. He also says he rocks enemies will face suicide at baghdad's Gates. He did not speak about yesterday's discovery of Rocket Warheads by un weapons inspectors stocks are lower amid uninspiring corporate outlooks sluggish economic news and worries about Iraq Dow Jones Industrials are down 103 points among today's biggest decliners are high tech shares following mixed outlooks from Microsoft and IBM analysts. Say the forecasts are taking some momentum out of the markets recent enthusiasm at the same time. There are several new report showing the economy continues to struggle new data indicate a growing trade deficit declining industrial output and lagging consumer confidence. Governor pawlenty is named former state. Senator, Jeanne Miriam to lead Minnesota's Department of Natural Resources pawlenty says Miriam has the temperament to reach the critical balance between protecting and enjoying Minnesota's natural resources while supporting the state's recreational demands. Miriam is a dfl are from Coon Rapids who served in the legislature from 1974 to 1996 his Deputy will be current state representative Mark Holston a republican from Stillwater St. John's University is getting its biggest gift ever five million dollars from a 1970 graduate. Dan Whalen says it's time to give back to the university which is in Collegeville near st. Cloud Weyland is Vice President of the University's Board of Regents. He founded Whalen and Company a California firm that manages projects for the Telecommunications industry, mostly sunny and Southern Minnesota today becoming cloudy in the north highs today from the teens to the lower 20s in the Twin Cities. Mostly sunny with a high around 20 right now in Worthington. It's sunny and 12 degrees in the Twin Cities Sunny & 8 I'm William Wilcox and Minnesota Public Radio. All right. Thank you William. It's about 25 minutes before twelve. This is midday on Minnesota Public Radio doubleheader coming up over the noon hour. We're going to hear a speech a seldom heard speech that Martin Luther King gave back in 1967. We thought would all people heading to Washington for the anti-war. Rally many of them saying that with the Martin Luther King holiday coming up and so on they want to emulate. Dr. King's Civil Disobedience say emphasis on non-violence in the rest. They're there to protest against the war without would broadcast a speech that he gave pretty important speech when he broke with the administration and Vietnam and so we'll have some excerpts from that will also hear from Governor Tim pawlenty who had some things to say yesterday about his vision for education in Minnesota all of that over the noon hour right now. We're talking with the new chair of the Metropolitan Council Peter Bell who is here to share some of his thoughts about the future of the Metropolitan Council and also (00:31:10) to get some suggestions from those of you listening (00:31:12) and again 6512276 thousand or one eight hundred two, four two two eight two eight Christopher. Go ahead, please good morning morning. I have kind of a quick comment and just a question a quick comment is I want to challenge. Mr. Bell on the idea that we have. World-class bus system because this is one of the you know, I've lived in 13 cities. This is one of the few places I lived were just getting to the first ring suburbs is a bit of a task on the bus system and it creates kind of a spatial mismatch with between jobs, you know, because a lot of jobs and companies are moving to these emerging territories yet. A lot of the people who live in the city can't get to the jobs in those those territories don't have enough workers and taking the bus just for instance from a st. Paul location to and Egan location oftentimes is impossible or if it's possible at all. You can only do it once a day and that to me is not a world-class bus system at all. That's the comet the question that I have is really why do these issues yet? So politicized between you know people who I want my car, so let's build roads and people who know we should go the green method and have light rail. It just seems to me it's not Social engineering. It's like effective State planning. We need Transportation businesses and people and just all of us. We need to get from point A to point B, and we don't need to sit in traffic. We don't need to wait hours for buses. And you know, I just don't get the politics of it. Why is this so divisive and Lord knows it has been (00:32:52) well, you know where you have transportation you tend to have Economic Development that's been the history of the world whether it was a river or an ocean or where were the trains ran across the continent where ever you have transportation Economic Development tends to follow and so there's intense interest in that in in that question. The second reason is of course just livability people want to be able to go where they want to go as cheaply and as quickly as humanly possible and And so for those two reasons the the that it is kind of an economic driver and it does impact people's lives people have strong opinions not to mention the impact on the environment many people rightly. Let me add are concerned about the environment and the impact Transportation has on it and and these points I think create conflicting political claims and political demands and and the Met council is one one of the places that those get hashed out and I think you know crudely but but but but effectively government usually has only blunt tools to use rarely does it have a scalpel the tools that government uses tend to be cruder and blunter because of the dollars and the numbers of people that needed to be need to be impacted by a policy and and so we don't always get it, right. But hopefully we get the broad Direction correct, but it does create passion Gary. I was saying to you on the break that the Met Council I was one of the surprise I've had is the strong feelings that people have about many of these issues is that people feel passionate and that's a good thing at the end of the day but do people have (00:34:51) do citizens have too much input into government decision-making to the point where they can block what otherwise would make good good public policy, whatever it might want to whatever issue (00:35:03) it might be but I don't want to be on the side of the argument decision. We Lulu citizen input. I read a I, you know, I just think that makes our job, you know, perhaps more challenging but but but you you're really be on the wrong side if you ever start blaming citizens for you know, I think and at the end of the day citizen input is good, you know, I find most people what I have said too many folks. That I am going to listen and tell I understand an issue people shouldn't confuse understanding with agreement. But I really do want to understand an issue and and I think if people feel heard and people feel that someone has taken the time to understand but a decision goes a different way. They can accept it. They say, you know, I've gotten I've had my shot. I've had my my time to make my case. They know most people 99% know that there's trade-offs and all of these questions, but they want to make sure they were heard and listened to and involved in the process and I think as public officials we can do no less (00:36:05) row with your comment place. Yes. I'm calling to ask. Mr. Bell. What his opinion is about trying to save green space in the metropolitan Regional area. I'm I'm very concerned as I watch more and more of our farm lands and areas of green being taken over by parking lots or housing developments, and I'm hoping That he will support that priority for our (00:36:35) area. We know 50% of the seven-county metro area is is rare. I mean undeveloped now, you know now I am glad I live in Minneapolis. But boy, I'm glad our forefathers set aside the the Lakes area in in Minneapolis and the the trails and the parks. It is the Jewel of the city and and and I think that we have to do that region region wide. So that is something that I would be supportive of now I'm sensitive to you know, many would argue. I think legitimately that that creates land that increases land prices and and and as we've seen housing go through the roof and there is an affordability question here housing is gone through the roof and makes it out of the reach of Of many individuals though. We have the highest home ownership in the seven-county metro area of of any place in the country. We have to be sensitive to that again. It's a question of balance. But but yes you would you would have to consider me as someone that's going to be open to that and looking for ways in which to set aside land particularly for Parks. (00:37:52) We were mentioning before the projections that another million people are going to be moving to the Twin Cities within the next 25 years or so. Where in the world are they all going to go? If you don't chew up all that green (00:38:04) space. Well, that's a challenge but you know, as I said, this is a small answer Minneapolis 30 years ago had half a million people living in Minneapolis now, it's 385. I don't know what the exact figure is in st. Paul but I would bet the large sum of money. It's down from what it was 30 to 40 years ago. We have to look at density of housing while allowing choice for folks and and and And the regional or the individual character various communities that that balance has got to be struck but we are in many of the residents are coming from other countries many of the residents that they will be coming to hear have have large families. They're younger and they have large families and we're going to need to accommodate that I'd say that's are going to be our major challenges transportation and housing the million people that are coming to this region (00:38:59) Cliff your comment Place. Well, two things one that just came up as people were talking on this whole idea of You know the green space and the reason Minneapolis has been such an attraction for so many years is the Green Space. We know that. But that green space was set aside by people more than a hundred years ago to make sure you know to have it there and you know that that's the kind of thinking we need to be thinking even 70 years ago. I weigh 100 when Highway 100 came about it was known as the Lilac way and there's not much of that left. But anyhow, what I called about is that it seems mr. Bell understands but doesn't doesn't understand what he's saying. He said something about make people pay for the cost of their behavior, but when their behavior means one person one Carver, you know, two trips a day at least and all of that the cost, you know, they're paying for the gas and maybe even some gas tax money goes to paying for the roads, but when You have to expand the road some people who are losing houses or losing businesses who are losing Park land to these expanded roads. They're paying the cost of other people's behavior. And all right and that doesn't even count all the extra pollution that we get because of all these things. All right, so, okay. Thanks Cliff. Thank you very (00:40:48) much. The color I think makes a good point. What I want to be clear about is as a guiding principle not as an absolute, but as a guiding principle people should pay for the housing and the transportation that they're engaged in now having said that there are a myriad of cross-subsidies. I live in an imperfect world. So I will never be able to bring that about is the chair of the Met Council but as a guiding principle a question, I We'll ask about a transportation system or a housing policy or the like is to what extent is the end-user bear the cost of this action and I will tend to err on the side of the end-user paying a higher proportion of that actual cost. I would remind the listening audience that that our transit system people pay about a third of that a little bit less than a third of that. I'm not looking at any radical changes in that but but I think the pain of third of that is a good thing. I think that that's right that that happens and that's true for any decision. I think it's it's a solid economic principle and it's hard to argue that the end user shouldn't pay for the decisions that the end user is making. I'm not an absolutist on that and there are a myriad of cross subsidies and the impact it's a wave you put a pebble in the water and the air. The you see the wave going out and there's some multitude of impacts that I can't all accommodate but that's a guiding principle (00:42:29) for me Governor pawlenty said and I think it was the day that he announced your appointment that while in general he thought the Met Council was was doing okay. It probably is guilty of mission creep our mission drift. I'm sorry Mission drift. What did he mean by that? (00:42:46) Well, I think that's a question perhaps more appropriate for the governor, but I but I will say this Gary Tom Weaver, the the regional administrator of the Met council is doing a review of all the authorizing legislation for the Met Council and then then kind of reconciling that with our current programs and activities to really answer that question because I think it's a legitimate one to say. Okay. What was the authorizing legislation and what are the programs and services? Services that have emanated for that authorizing legislation so we can get a firmer hand on that. I suspect with the governor was saying about Mission creep. So again, I think it's more appropriate for him is in the planning area that that when does planning at the regional planning activity unduly impinge upon local autonomy, and and there is no formula for that. There is no absolute right answer for that but people would draw that line at different places and and we're going to be analyzing in this Administration where that line should be drawn (00:44:01) Harry your comment place along the same veins I guess is the transit system thinking when when the Met Council and MnDOT in the state accepted all the money from the Federal Transit Administration to build the light rail. I've seen reported different places that one of the stipulations From the federal government when we accepted all this money was find some type of dedicated funding for the transit system. Not only for the light rail, but for the bus system and what well chairman belt velocity be attempting to find you know, this type of dedicated funding. What is he? How is he going to approach A legislature housing and approach this type of (00:44:42) issue. Well, we do get funding from the transit system from vehicle sales tax that is a major source of funding for the the transit system currently in addition to two fares that the that we charge and Tula I mean to a large extent that's a dedicated system. You know, we're going to have to work through the legislative process because the the 2.6 million dollar cut we experienced in this year is going to be significantly greater next year. And so that question is going to have to be answered but to Direct it with you. I haven't thought through that. I don't have a position on that (00:45:25) now Rich your comment for the new chairman. Yes, good morning. It seems that most of the discussions that I've heard surrounding the topic of Transportation in the Metro region are concerning meeting the offered demand for traffic and there hasn't been any discussion that I know of about ways to mitigate or reduce that demand an example of that would be offering incentives or providing ways for people to telecommute from either their home or a to remotely located branch office if somebody is in a job where they're working behind a computer most of the day or a telephone, there's really no reason technically or technologically speaking why that job could not be performed from a remote basis rather than getting in the car and driving into the (00:46:20) city. Yeah, I think that the whole notion of telecommuting and creating incentives for that needs to be looked at it. I think the notion of inducing or attempting to persuade businesses to stagger start times is another way to relieve congestion. I'm not sure at the end of the day though how much we really get from that and and that's just something I need to look into. (00:46:48) Let's go back to the phones Ryan your next go ahead place. Thank you. I would like to start off by saying congratulations to mr. Bell on his new appointment. Thank you. My question is is what is the metropolitan's council are how did they feel about using or implementing in a new fuel program for the bus service in the areas of using biodiesel as a renewable resource and as a way to help also bolster the prices farmers are getting now at the market. Or their soybeans. I don't know the (00:47:24) answer to that specific question. We do we have purchased a number of buses recently that I know use both Fuel and batteries they're cleaner and and of course obviously more fuel-efficient and quieter that's something I want to explore but alternative fuel sources, you know, ethanol in the like I just don't know what the mix is on on that or plans that the bus service has but that's I think it's a very legitimate question Ryan and something I need to look into (00:47:57) is it tough? You think it's going to be tough to both deal with the day-to-day operations the day-to-day questions that come up and at the same time address some of these big picture issues at the Metropolitan Council has to wrestle with it seems like you could get bogged down so quickly on one or the other that you ignore (00:48:20) the other half of the Gary I think you put your finger on a very real question, you know many people say what's the biggest surprise that you've had the Met Council? No, I said one or the biggest thing that kind of shocked you in one was the big lie that this is a part time job. If not, believe me. It's not and to the extent to which it's in a fishbowl, but that more directly to your point. We do have a regional administrator a great guy Tom Weaver who is going to really run the day-to-day operations of the Met Council and and the chairs role my role I would say is to be the public face of the Met Council and to really kind of work on the policy questions. And so I am not going to get involved with the day-to-day operations of the bus service or the water treatment activities are really the HRA when we get to policy questions. I will for instance or major issues. We got two major labor negotiations coming up with various Transit. Indians and that's coming up in May that's a huge question and I'll be very very involved in that but the day-to-day operations is going to be left to the regional administrator and a very competent staff. (00:49:34) Do you think in general policy makers not only at the Met Council but at the legislature local governments County governments, wherever it may be do they have their I both on (00:49:48) do they do (00:49:48) they have the time and the energy and the interest in focusing on these long-term questions. One of our callers earlier was noting well gosh, it was a hundred years ago. Somebody decided we better have all these Lakes. You know, I'm sure at the people at the time couldn't have cared less. Really? Yeah, you know Gary (00:50:04) I'm kind of a minority voice in this I think elected officials really across the political Spectrum are committed extremely hard-working dedicated folks who by and large do have a vision. They aren't just looking to the next election, they really Have questions of the future and Legacy in mind and and spend a fair amount of time and energy thinking about that II don't I don't accept the the kind of popular held view that people can't see past the next election and they're very only concerned about their constituents. I think many most elected officials have broader interest in that kind of parochial view of things in a very short time Horizon. So I think the answer is yes, (00:50:52) Aaron your comment for the new chair. Yes. Thank you. Mr. Bell. I was calling because of what you had said earlier about wanting to ensure that citizens had housing choices. And and I definitely appreciate that comment. My question is how mr. Bell do you propose to ensure that people have that choice that housing Choice especially considering the trends in Housing Development the increases in lot size. And housing size and especially since 55% of Twin City ins and research I've seen so that they would trade off living in on a larger size Laden in a larger home for an opportunity to live in a more livable (00:51:36) Community. Yeah. Well, I'm not sure that I'm going to be able to ensure it. I think there are small things that we can do is you may be aware. There's the livable Community grants that that we have is about at the 10 to 11 million dollars a year that we Grant to communities for different types of development and and often we use that to encourage various housing options. We also negotiate with communities about the extent to which they are willing to take or develop various affordable housing projects, and that's something that I have every intention of continuing. (00:52:21) Give a quick comment before we wrap up. You have to wonder if ugh, mr. Bell could comment on the situation in Lake Elmo where for three years the Metropolitan Council said everything was just fine. There were proud of the way Lake. Alma was doing cluster development and promoting a livable downtown and suddenly decided the city needed 30,000 more residents and everybody had to change their lives and all the planning. (00:52:44) Well first I'm not sure I'm willing to accept all of the assumptions embedded in your question that what what is happening in Lake Elmo and I'm and I'm studying this now as the caller well knows this isn't before an administrative judge and and the Met Council my predecessor and the previous counsel that taken a position that they wanted more development along. I think it's I-35. I I believe in Lake Elmo was resistant to that. We were going to put in some sewer service and the like And and there was questions about the amount of development and where that development should go that issues in front of an administrative judge. Now my position on that is I want to wait to hear what the judge's ruling is and then immediately upon that I want to enter into discussions with like Elmo. I believe 95 plus percent of the issues that the Met Council faces really can be handled amicably but between all the parties are involved and and that's really going to be my intention. I need to get out and talk to the folks in Lake Elmo get their their side of it be clear on what the concerns are in the issues that the Met Council had and and in my full intention is to arrive at a amicable Solution. That's a good way for folks to judge whether you've done a good job whether the Met (00:54:15) council is done that the good job over the next few years. Is there some some way to measure that (00:54:21) I think some is is that I think the Hiawatha lines going to be a highly visible one is did it come in on time and and and and on budget I would look to for ways to see have we increase the accountability of a very powerful form of government because that's something I think that people can look at and I would ask people to keep their eye on on the bus system and what we do with that those would be three things. I would advise your listeners to kind of be on the lookout for (00:54:49) well paid her bail. Thank you so much for coming in today and good luck to you. Thank you. I enjoyed it (00:54:54) our guests this first hour of midday Peter Bell (00:54:56) who is the new chairman of the Metropolitan Council an agency that oversees planning for the metropolitan area and also operates the bus system in the Twin Cities metropolitan area and operates the sewer system in the Twin Cities metropolitan area. (00:55:17) This week A Prairie Home Companion is back to Fitzgerald theater in Good Old Saint Paul Minnesota back from our winter Hiatus with a great Cajun Band with us up from Louisiana. Beausoleil the news from Lake Wobegon guy Noir seeks the answers to Life's persistent questions all brought to you by catch up with its natural mellowing agents this week. (00:55:40) Listen to A Prairie Home Companion the Saturday afternoon at 5 and Sunday at noon on Minnesota public radio's news and information stations 12 noon, and we're going to break for some headlines. And then after the news a doubleheader coming up over the noon hour going to hear from Governor pawlenty can some general thoughts on where he wants the education system to go in Minnesota. We're also going to hear from Martin Luther King some excerpts from a influential speech that he gave back in 1967. Dozens of skaters will head to the Lake of the Isles in Minneapolis this weekend to participate in the National Speed skating Marathon will find out about the sports history and its future. I'm Greta Cunningham brace your ankles and join me for all things considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a sunny sky and it's 10 degrees above the windchill Five Below at Kinder wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul Sunny through the afternoon with a high near 22 night 50/50 chance for some light snow with an overnight low 5 to 10 above and then tomorrow cloudy 40% chance for light snow with a high in the middle teens.