(00:00:10) Good afternoon, and welcome back to midday on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten glad you could join us ten years ago, certainly 15 years ago. The world would have hung on his every word as the leader of the Soviet Union Mikhail Gorbachev held the future of the planet literally at the tip of his finger and people would have been intensely interested in hearing what mr. Gorbachev had to say about the state of the world not so these days Kyle Gorbachev returned to Minnesota this weekend in most of the world paid him little mind after all the Cold War is Over. Thanks in no small part to Gorbachev Soviet Union has broken up again. Thanks in no small part to Gorbachev and Gorbachev himself has long since been removed as the leader of a world superpower. In fact many Russians blame Gorbachev for many of the problems that they have that have plagued them since the end of the Cold War. So go over tough speech this weekend at the annual dinner of the Twin Cities based center of the American experiment was not Not the stuff of your big bold headlines, but it did include some fascinating insights from one of the most important world leaders of the late 20th century cow Gorbachev. You'll recall first visited Minnesota in 1990 when he was still the head of what Ronald Reagan dubbed the evil empire. He had already launched programs to open up the Soviet Union's political and economic systems. He was on the verge of winning the Nobel Peace Prize and thousands of minnesotans turned out to catch a glimpse of this famous man, who was brought to Minnesota by then-governor Rudy perpich over the weekend this past weekend only a handful of people turned out to greet Gorbachev survival, but some 2,500 people did pay $150 a seat to hear him speak Saturday night at the center's annual dinner held at the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis today on. Midday. We're going to hear what he had to say here is former Soviet president, Mikhail Gorbachev. (00:02:04) Renegade rows yeah dear friends Yeah, which is the release the new movie DC where she leads. I'm very sorry that I cannot see the faces of all of you I would like is it really creeped is out to see all of you in this wonderful Auditorium. I'm remembering what was the beginning of my political biography? Yep, I do Momo. I thought you've spoiled me and remembered suitability. She should give those Beginnings that was moved in 1948. Do is be deceived by 1948 52 years ago sub rallies comes from Old City. We had a gathering of the komsomol organization Choice reduced quality of a large school. Usually is this and I was among them is B rally secret area comes and they were electing the secretary of the Youth Organization the komsomol organization really nice when essentially via Seven Persons were proposed for candidates region you humor and among them was I he guards the preceding stage and everyone was asked to stand up. Notice that and to speak and also to ask to answer questions. Shut up other slow motion is coming. Yeah when my turn came I stood up. Okay, that's all said. Yes when I was sitting down someone pulled the chair out from under me. You have to social worker Napa Lupo and I fell down I dropped to the floor. Tyler ulis a variety of new minions Briella mediocrity and nevertheless. I was elected Secretary of the Youth Organization by secret ballot that last mile political geography. That was the beginning of my political career and my conclusion from that my lesson, but one must not be afraid to fall down one has to stand up and go further kaka cazalas do which Olivia I'm often asked. How is it that you a person who comes from the hinterland of Russia with a Bratz doll that you were able who is the inaudible aprea? Delete know how to achieve so much you coming from a place where there wasn't even a railroad person who comes from a peasant family cheers push call a person who went to rural school. We sake of protecting. A person who had no pull or protection dr. Malucci search the we need to look at how come that you were able not only to get the Moscow Schooners here to become a student at Moscow University to have a political career and ultimately ready to store the comedy. Sorry to become the leader of a superpower. Yes. Kalka That should my you boys needed. Well, I would like to briefly explain Yahoo, and she'll School City of Geneva Dolly. I graduated high school with a silver medal. The psalmist also in the community. I sent my papers to Moscow. I just me across this little basket out and my father said something very simple to me. You see who she does if you want to study. Do it Jim Warren William Palmer God. We will try to help as Bears more than we can probably even though our possibilities are quite modest. You just have I should we do mr. About the cowboy or perhaps if you want to stay here and we'll work on the land together. Yes, guys - do you have a problem? I said, well, I will try. Yeah, that's Alma School scavengers and I signed the papers to University perhaps that was not a modest thing to do not humble thing to do in my part know what you but why not try. Yes the query problem. Yeah, if it really was I felt that it was my right and I wanted to take advantage of that move right there. And even though maugrim the questions he shot tremendous competition to enter Moscow University. Minneapolis thousands of people per that. She's one place again today. I was get accepted. I became a student in the Department of Law. Yeah, we had lived and for five years is to chain you I was studying there studying Brava law you personally very shiny of your named after my cry graduating. I returned to my birthplace. Yeah, the most vulnerable Moscow University Gorbachev the policy maker garbage from the political leader wouldn't have happened. We lose the lawyer that was another very important condition yet. They sure another very important factor. More which somewhere why are they pushing and I would say that I am so much after my father and mother should come on. I was in a Moscow University and the knowledge. I gained there in the sea just most important experience in my life. It was important event that leaves and now when the economy when all spheres of Life have become even more complicated it is extremely important for any person to be ready to be prepared. Hey Stuart of Legaia actual name is Nadine, but you can only be ready to act if you have very wide-ranging knowledge. We know watching bespoke. We look at that. I was very concerned when Russia because of the problems that Russia is experiencing and the first few years. There was a moment there was a time when young people decided that instead of having University education it should do something they should do something else and that was a point in time perhaps for two or three years when my treat there were very few people studying in our universities that has now changed. And once again, yes, there are many people flying in studying in our universities. There is great competition and particularly young people want to get educated in the new professions related to market economics nothing and also there is continuing competition in the Department's of mathematics chemistry physics. That is very encouraging. That is something that makes me very happy because education means that Russia will keep teaching and training people intellectual people Russia will continue to be a country with great intellectual resources in combination. Our natural resources and Russia has about 60% of the world's natural resources and combination that those resources. I believe that Russia will ultimately work. Russia will ultimately learn to manage a market economy and to manage all the processes and this is another lesson another lesson that I learned from my own life and not just from my own life today. Yes, one can find oneself talk to each other outside the mainstream of life. If one is not well prepared for the challenges that we're facing Moscow University, which is Liam gemignani. Tolkien was a happy place for me. Not only as a student not only as a young man, but also because I met their street racers in you, please introduce yourself we met in the fall of 1951. She just walked with the Masala mucho mejor no. Yes later. We became husband and wife. That also but surviving students could spray in your precious play fft show not know yet stir up all your Parabola in order to be able to pay for my mother's wedding. I had to go back to this terrible and to work there in order to be able to buy a suit for myself and the gown for ASA not to $55. I didn't have the money for the shoes style approach because one had to choose either shoes or to buy vodka for the banquet there is a strike but but of course a marriage we banquet particularly for students without a drink would not be good. And so what what we decided to do is raise the bar watches from a girlfriend and even I would as a result we had money both provide. and for Wine gift you're forming your ass tiwari's the concerns recently. We were together until the end of her life. I'm not going to tell exactly I did or sarcastic adoption. She died five years before the 46th anniversary of our marriage. Yep, I am grateful to her. Yes. It's all true. Nothing to she good seal decently to kanishka a serious of energy. I will be 70 years old next year and you can understand that. This was a great loss to me. Would you feel gonna be spoke wheel shop some news that an appraiser. She was always very concerned for me for my safety. Enough showroom ago really encourage you whatever she always said I do not want to be left alone. But you see what happened to be aboard you worrying and God decided this way. She left avoid very early. She was a very Lively person very strong person now Arena and PDF two daughters have moved in with me and we living together. Yeah choose to is and I feel my responsibility for their life for their future and this gives me strength That's not up. Will you? Jacques and stavropol when I return to Star opal from Moscow. I became politically active after just seven years of working seven days of working in the prosecutor's office. I was again invited to become a political leader and for 45 years. I've been in politics. Which is political I tried many times to leave politics are usually mineralogy Rochelle and I watched idea prese and I were very interested in academic work. I Was preparing to do academic work. I wrote a paper station, but something happened that finally forced me to take a decision to stay in politics reduce or to be shot in 1973 cesium when I was 37 years old 39 years old. Jacques also Rowley bearish report. I was appointed first Secretary of the regional party committee. That is the equivalent of governor in your country. This is directly attributed not of a school for nine years. I worked security and that position and that kind of work really carried me away. And after that I could not say goodbye to politics of lonely Subway humor unit release this introduce offices, but the most important things in my life began to happen, of course in 1985. God when on March the 11th, I was elected General Secretary of the cpsu Central Committee. I was the youngest member in the politburo. Eternal Mania those two pictures and nevertheless he moves brand-new the events that preceded my election showed that the time had come for a new generation that you're not we had through the rubble to start some very difficult work. You would have a juice comes out and I would like to say is that twice? The last century she's profound changes in the Russia. Also did a majority of course of world history. The first such change was the October revolution in 1917. The revolution that Revolution is mean you love short changed and altered the Eastern you everything in my pencil from Neighbors did and had tremendous influence on all the processes in the rest of the world. It was an experiment a double experiment was an experiment ice-cold polluted because people did accept the slogans of the Bolsheviks here the slogans of Freedom. Peace svoboda when you join Freedom from oppression, Father get abortion similar factories to the workers and land to the peasants. If you just yeah fluctuate, you know, and even now she's young when I listened to such slogans. I feel that if I were a member of that generation, I would have accepted those slogans more you learn it, but it is more than that renewable energy has on After that, another girl has run away the Bolsheviks imposed on our country an artificial model a Model A model that rejected democracy, even though even though their initial slogans in the revolution were democratic. If stallion apology, but they rejected democracy and they took the road of dictatorship because they wanted to impose that communist model that communist experiment which has any cost Suzy's ATM was lower at Homestead. Books and let me add a few words. You are working at here on the American experiment and what I would like to suggest that in analyzing the successes the successes of any experiment taking also into account. What was the price paid for the experiment what the cost of any experiment that is the most important criteria? Certainly Russia under the Bolsheviks became well educated country a country with great science. It also industrialized Russia Americans by the way helped in the industrialization of the Soviet Union, they help to build many factories, but what was the price of that success the price was that the individual did not matter the individual does not matter at all. The individual was controlled by the party. There was no freedom in any attempt not just to criticize but even to suggest even to propose something constructive. Any such attempt was regarded as an attack on communism and many people Milano lost their lives millions of people lost their lives because of that others were exiled and jailed. Look at Civil Wars industrialization collectivization. And then of course our struggle against Nazism. If you look at all of them just going to pull up our daughter all of that. Would you one can say that the forces of the nation were undermined as a result of all of those? What's up the vehicle trials and tests guess who by the end of the 20th century? It became clear that the model of State socialism a model that is based on total control on Rigid control the model that was based on total discipline Java model that rejected a free market and that rejected private. Private initiative that model was in conflict with the culture the culture that had been created by that same system. We do public key for sure if our mirror and therefore the were attempts to reform the country Khrushchev was the first person to try to reform the system and Khrushchev was therefore ousted from the political Arena really puppet key. There were other attempts to conduct more profound reforms. Nationally in the Economy based on the proposals of prime minister kosygin. Yeah, that sequential this problem and those attempts also were rejected by them and ultimately failed because the Naaman Cultura party bureaucracy never they saw that power was slipping from their homes resources of their existence another in Richmond were slipping from their hands the bureaucracy rebelled the bureaucracy resisted those reforms it took a little more than a day to topple Khrushchev. He was ousted at a closed meeting of the Central Committee our country was lagging behind because it was not able to conduct the structural reforms. He can suit what's happened by the end of the 20th century not shalu what I would say in the early 1980s. Our country was had three spot. I mean only one first Of the trough productivity of the more advanced countries and one-fifth of the productivity of the more advanced countries in agriculture. We were of course comparing comparing our country and the United States in every aspect and the gap between the United States and our country began to grow City, even though before it was shrinking that but particularly in the 70s and in the 1980s when the United States was restructuring itself when the United States was introducing new technologies when it was giving incentive to business and as you mentioned was cutting taxes and in this way giving incentive to the economy our country still had the same heavily centralized economic system welcome and system and we were facing the question of the All right, Nation all those others weakness for the most well-educated country in the world continued to be a country where there was no freedom and people didn't want to put up with that. So that was the challenge that all of us who were trying to implement radical reforms were facing initially. We thought that we could improve the system but the system was resistant to improvement process to make change and particularly the party nominee for tourism party bureaucracy. That was the frame of that system was resisting our efforts and therefore when I felt that I was facing perhaps the same fate as Prussia that I would be just removed by the opponents of perestroika. I and those who supported me and the Soviet society that supported me I decided to implement political reform in our Yes qualities because hoping that there would be changed without a political reform a reform that would give people courage them a chance that plastic people citizens that would give them a chance to vote that would Empower them to choose washing dishes was moving. So this was my decision and it was in 1988 that the real perestroika began the years that preceded it. Well a couple years of preparation. Perestroika, unfortunately was cut short because the nomenklatura porch that saw that it was losing its position the Dom inspector attempted a coup d'etat and the coup d'etat destabilize the situation. Yeah and resulted in the breakup of the Soviet Union nevertheless. I must say that even though perestroika was cut short it succeeded in giving people. What is the most important thing and that is freedom free elections free elections became a fact of life in our country people were given a chance to own private property private property is now accepted in the Constitution people were given the right to form different political parties that competed with the Communist party and as a result the Monopoly of the Communist party was about St. Eva is we also adopted a law on freedom of expression and freedom of faith. We adopted a law on freedom of religion in the Soviet Union. We had all religions. lovely the most important thing that people obtained from perestroika was intellectual Freedom intellectual freedom and glasnost glass knows things more than just freedom of speech last night is the ability of the people to know what is happening in the country lastness is the ability of the people to demand that those who take decisions be accountable. They can can demand information. They can demand information about their decisions and their consequences settlement has washing dishes. So from that moment on from 1989 the battle the battle was really tremendous washed a bleep. It had a tremendous scale, but in 1991 perestroika was know what a short. Nevertheless, it has made a tremendous gains and those days those gains enable Russia to go forward to continue to go forward. It will never return to the Past any attempt during the last 10 years of the Communist to take political Revenge have failed. Perestroika was also fruitful and the international Arena. Spencer console WE Post daily price to approach there is a boy we in the Soviet Union asked ourselves a simple question you feel you belong don't miss it. We asked is it true that greedy men and women in the White House thinking day and night about how to destroy our country note that you pinata tequila. And we said well that cannot be in a democratic country such people cannot reset attack cannot be in power and if that is so we said our mileage and we should develop a normal and responsible dialogue about how to live in the world that was for nuclear weapons. And that was also facing the challenges of the environment and the butter Global problems. How can we live together in the world? That is so interdependent. When we ask that question. We developed the new thinking and international relations. This is how we implemented perestroika in our foreign policy. We've read luckily. No, he didn't you we proposed a new vision a vision that our planet is our common home. Is he asleep and if Attica Robert hope this is a ship if this is a common ship in which we are sailing in the future can one hope to have a normal life and just one room in the other rooms things go badly and people are stifled in that ship. We must live normally together. Everyone should have a decent life. So these are very simple this seems to be a very simple discussion. But Lon as a result. Yeah, we proposed very radical changes in our policies and we proposed a policy of arms reduction. We resumed dialogue with the United States of America. That was the most important thing. I mean you can't see You know biot-savart American ski Moroccan National Road by yatsenyuk. We thought we believe that the American people just like our people feared war and did not want war the Americans would have a lot to lose in any War. Yeah. Yeah. Just got the Americans the Americans the US is the country with which we must engage in a responsible dialogue. I remember my first meeting my first contact with President Ronald Reagan. Geneva it was in Geneva. Annette of streets here. Push. This is steep. It was a meeting that took place after six years without any Summit meeting. Goddamn Wall Street is when we met I feel that in a very human way. We began to get along instinctively. I felt that this is a person with whom I will be able to get long. No, but what sleep here with this year after my very first talk with President Reagan. My colleague asked me about President Reagan. They ask me. What is your impression about the president Yahoo! Dinner, and I said, here's a real dinosaur. No, you got no Yahoo's now store President. Reagan. Got it. We're the lobeck Communist President Reagan on the other hand characterized me as a dyed-in-the-wool communist. Well that is probably because each of us passionately was trying to defend one's position after the first round of talks. We had this kind of impression but we spent two days and we worked practically Round the Clock and everyone about talks brought us forward. We usually and as a result don't weep really document both of us adopted a very important to communicate very important statement. And in that statement. We said that nuclear war cannot be won and must never be fought. Yes Lee. Please yes would've happened. If you didn't if two presidents of two leaders of the countries, which much City have almost 90 percent of the world's nuclear weapons. If they make such a statement is that the then it means that the policies they will not release the arms reduction policy has to change and we began to build a new arms reduction policy. But the most important thing was first to build an atmosphere of trust. I believe that that atmosphere of trust was the most important thing that enabled us to take very far-reaching decisions. I must say that President Reagan like to repeat trust but verify Goddamn you please leave when we both of us, but be so childish and signed Arms Control agreements. When we began to say that the United States also should give us a chance for verification. The Americans became less insistent on verification any possibility of Brazilian, but then I said, mr. President. I know previous what about your remark trust but verify ianto sure that we are utilizing previous. I trust you, but let us also verify Nipple new process the number of also cars they shop every step that we took was not easy. And in that kind of situation of 322080 rushing forward just rushing forward would not be a serious policy just for mean I got done with several City. Karaoke. I remember when we met in Reykjavik that it will partially and when we took very far-reaching decisions as regards nuclear weapons mrs. Thatcher. Mr. Stature in I recall my job with great warmth and 40 years assume run should not even though not as often as we used to we continue to meet and to stay in touch. I know this is stature when she learned about Reykjavik when she learned about how far we had advanced in Reykjavik in our proposed decisions and other animal has a smooth discuss a lot. Mrs. Thatcher lost sleep. She said another Reykjavik and everything is lost. Yeah, I think she was worried at all. So that give up Rosie doesn't need to shut you told camera because she felt that decisions of that kind should be taken not by two persons alone, but also in consultation but allies and I think that concerned was quite real. Reykjavik Reykjavik opened up is really the way to Arms reduction without Reykjavik reduction. You would not have happened you had cameras and even though we parted by your neighbors you whistling Gee George shoot and George Schultz at a press conference at that Air Force Base in Iceland George Shultz whom I give no less credit Provident present Reagan George Shultz initially said at that press conference that Reykjavik was a failure Judith or a community about 40 minutes after that 20 minutes after that. I spoke to a press conference and there was a thousand journalist. Yeah, when I entered the room all of those journalists were standing silently and I saw reproach in their eyes, they seem to be saying well we had been waiting for Good news from you but you had not been able to overcome some obstacles and to take the decisions that we expected. So when I looked at that I them I said well, even though we have not signed any time control documents here. I believe that Reykjavik was a breakthrough a breakthrough into the future. You nationally and our partners Ronald Reagan. And George Schultz the next morning they change tune and they said yes indeed Reykjavik was not a failure. It was a breakthrough what cock true that the Wallace. So it was a difficult difficult Way Forward. Are you getting a double attack? Sometimes things happened? I guess it's the question to us or situations occurred that one of them I will describe to you. stretcher President Reagan at one of our meetings with President Reagan. I first had to listen from my videos. Counterpart a person who might come to trust I had to listen what I felt was lecturing from him. Yes. Don't know if he'll President Reagan. I had to stop President Reagan and I said to him mr. President. We need to procure or you're not a prosecutor and I'm not a suspect. We knew cheated and Eugene you're not a teacher, and I'm not a student with wine, press table and we represent great Nations that bear great responsibility. Yes even got to worry about if you are ready to work with me on an equal basis. We can go very far together. Yes, and yet she tightest of riches. If not, we might just as well wrap it up for you. You just worry President Reagan's cause out and very soon after that President Reagan said nothing. I mean your own call me Ron. I'll call you Michael. And I said, okay. Russell Dodson I did so that was very serious statesmanship statesmanship. That was also based on a human Rapport and on trust. One word shot he was near to our body President Reagan said to me you're a country where there is. No Freedom. Yeah, I'm Rosco's out. What horrid moon has he said in my country? I was and then I told him a joke. Katheryn Shields leadership following joke beshear do it Reagan and Gorbachev has Reagan and Gorbachev talk. That's why I didn't care about you. Una's cars. Did she react most retweeted? He says mr. Gorbachev. Any any person can come up to the White House and shout down with Reagan. I was what about you stop? We said him chili what would happen to that person? Yahoo! You must move it pretty clear. I said, well any person no longer a gonna can come up to the Kremlin and shout down the dragons he shows and she would not be punished. Poussin is Rizzo known as Los Angeles so it took some time but we developed also a very serious relationship with President Bush James a baker. Um, where's James Baker the Secretary of State? Those are people with whom we continued the work that was started before and in Malta at in 1989 when we met there we were able to say to each other that our two countries no longer regarded themselves as enemies as foes. Richard I'm sure they brilla I've you lie, and we believe that that was the Declaration of the end of the Cold War. Yes, it was comes out old canoe if I had mentioned only those people that the picture would be incomplete. Not will be there necessary Ruben Reyes originally was we decided. Oh and the mid-1980s. Doc's Lucilla CO2 so happened. I believe that the world was lucky that it happened. There was a large group serious responsible leaders of States real Statesman summer. story, I think that life itself history itself so ruled and I include among that group. Mrs. Thatcher include among that group Helmut Kohl Francois mitterrand giulio andreotti. Pioneer premium is gunshot King Juan Carlos of Spain and prime minister Gonzalez. The prime minister of Canada Brian Mulroney. Yeah, don't admit it. I must also mention the very responsible policy. That was at that time pursued pursued by the leaders of China by Deng Xiaoping and by the leaders of India the government of India headed by Rajiv Gandhi. I cannot mention all of them, but it was a time when on the political Arena we had people who responded to the challenges of times who responded to the imperatives of these times who took the respondent took upon their shoulders the responsibility of ending the confrontation and I wanted to recall those people today in order to say that yes indeed. There are people who did more than others some did less but it is quite Clear Sheila that one person one person cannot do it all this part your thoughts without partnership. Yes without partnership with your country. I wanted to say this because I studied abroad I've got my son. I would like to now ask a question. Now we could use colored neighboring. How were the opportunities that appeared after the end of the Cold War. How were those opportunities used at that time? We signed by you the arms control agreements in Vienna that rhyme yeah unified Germany. We also moved forward today with nuclear arms reduction. We expanded political dialogue. And at that time we said we are moving into the new era a new history of a new world order. We said that the world cannot live based on new strategies and new approaches. Group has the world na VI saluto, you get more you cannot live in a situation when one country or a group of countries is trying to impose its hegemony. But if this is not acceptable in the modern world yet an emphasis on the use of force is also not acceptable in a world where there are so many weapons. This can lead to disaster. This can lead to tremendous Bloodshed. This can lead people in human society is not near the menu. And so we said what we need is not domination is not an attempt to impose an interest of one country or one group of countries. We need a balance of interest for the dialogue. We need openness of shit, which we need common responsibility and that means solidarity and common responsibility for all that is happening in the world Museo Pastiche or us. What do a shrimp poop we must not a mistake Gee, I sure as we must not allow got to the same mistake that was made by the Bolsheviks. The Bolsheviks wanted to impose a communist model on the entire world guy you do you see they wanted a World Revolution that would impose such a model and we know he's the price that my country and other countries paid for that much history. Yes, you manage them rejected that experiment Utama did but what if we try to impose another model on the entire world? What if we try to westernize the entire world? What about other cultures? What about the history of other nations that are feel pretty Chalky White's shit. Should we negate all the all the all that dress is just only even today. I think I mean can skew people understand and I think Americans colors and American intellectuals understand what hand I think we in Russia understand and yeah, that's really such an attempt would be unacceptable could only result in mistrust and new dividing lines. We don't want those divide you guys. We need homonyms move toward a new world order the kind of orders that the Pope John Paul II characterized in very simple terms. I think you spoke not only to Roman Catholics, but to the world when he said was Gonzales, Louis Moreau, is that the new world order? doesn't report must be more stable police privately with more just and more humane Yes, yes in your stability if there is no stability the world you Miss Moore is always in danger. I groomed important outcome will only be able to take advantage of the tremendous potential the tremendous potential of the 20th century when you will see if the world is stable its Ally darling but stability is not possible without Justice and solidarity. You on the mirror? We cannot regard some regions of the world as just sources of Natural Resources or of Human Resources. We cannot regard some areas of the world as a Dumping Ground. We are an interdependent world and all of those regions belong to our interdependent world. And the most important thing we course is the Pope's words that the New World Order must be Humane. I think that the human being is the center. Yo, yo, yo political nauseous. Every human being is above all I believe that right now policymakers are lagging behind tightly. Just what they are not exercising leadership and I show pretty good start. I believe that policymakers are still in the throes of all wet approaches of the Cold War strategy. That is why and that is why we see this contempt for the United Nations. We see contempt being shown your the security Council statutory. We see content for the charter that we signed in Paris. By the way that Charter was signed in Paris by leaders of 54 countries, including the leaders of the United States and the Soviet Union as soon as the Soviet Union broke up, however, that the charter and other obligations that were concluded at the end of the Cold War were abandoned. Yes, if this continues if once again, you know politics geopolitical games receiving lots of shock if geopolitical Advantage is sword and if some Try to fish in Troubled Waters. Then we will not have stability. Then we will not have Justice or Humanity all can you pollution turquoise periodic not have that kind of order. Yes. We would have a disorder in state a Vietnam not verified problem Micron and this is happening at a time when we are facing tremendous problems enough relationship problem of globalization globalization that one contains both opportunities and dangers. We are facing the challenge of the environment that requires tremendous efforts. The information age. The information age has made the world a web and interdependent web and that demands that we create an order an order that would make the world to some extent manageable and governable, right? Yeah. Stranded deep appreciation to the premise will provide there are some countries in which the president you're right during his presidency but feels that he must engage in at least a little war. Yeah, those guys that are top shooters. No a statue. I think let us leave that kind of approach in the 20th century brought our hands. Yeah, nagi's I would hope. She just that Joe and Biddy who deeply now when we are in a transition from an old world order when we are looking for a new world where we will be able to evaluate everything properly viduka. You have grown up with soonest role yet with three roll and the responsibility of the United States in the world is tremendous. Jesus lived as a new initiative America to bring the ten years after the end of the Cold War have been years of prosperity for this country volume moisture. This country has become stronger. This country has become better educated. This country has no annual basis to develop core new technologies is most Technologies are in American universities and in the schools the American Social there have been advances also in the social sphere in this country and this is a great achievement of this is Great accomplishment, I cannot say you go you with that stick in the same flattering terms about the foreign policy of this and I'm saying this as a person Yahoo has yet always tries to be candid candid about America candid about Russia candid about our relationship. I think that people in the world will definitely start our me except a more constructive role of the United States people. Yes want America to be an example if people want to see America's role to be based on the new criteria assumption this new world order. In you promote. Yes a table with people. Well not accept if actually doing America tries to take advantage of the situation when vast regions of the world are in the process of transition of transformation from totalitarian victorial regimes start to pull and you regime if at this time the United States only thinks about itself is that the mothers of our own then I think this will come to no good and that's good Boomerang. This would be counterproductive and everyone would have to pay a price we better know I would hope that the election of a new president is Cushy qataris and the debate that is underway in America at this time will enable this country to understand its new role in the 21st century. And I would hope that this role will be a role that is a worthy of a great nation. chocolate-covered pretzel finally finally a few words about what's happening in the Russians. What's happening in Russia? Rusty we buddy we have had elections use but no emolia's waste which we have a new president a person who is not well known you weren't a Visa credit report and that is really the secret these collections. There was a moment when there was fear he said there will not be enough turnout for the elections to take place. There would be less than 50% of the people which would vote but there was a 70 percent turnout and people voted for this to president. People voted. Yes for a new president you man, they don't particularly know this is because they blame they blame not just Yeltsin and his team but even other politicians who were critical, but who were not able to do much to change the situation. So people blame for their troubles for their hardships, not just yelton, but most of the other politicians to would you present putting now has a mandate he has a clean slate. Dear with two dozen abdomen president button. You will be must now think about what these elections mean. But I want to give War because every Giuliana just she was was pushed by a certain group of people by certain segments of the Russian society and yet she was pushed by right people rush to get into Euros wanting to play that tune. Now, he must look at the national interest. He must look at the interest of the entire nation at the boys Dylan if she does that what's that movie it's of they must be asked me to do option then the ibuffer Rapport between the government and the people will be re-established right now. There is no credibility of the government in Russian samovar sneak. The most important thing is to rebuild the normal relations between the government of people. So she's lost. Of course. This is a difficult time in Russia. The president will have to address very difficult problems. But in will be able to successfully some of crude officiating if you supported by the people people will support him people. Well, we have patients if they see that what he is doing is in the National interest and the interest of pulling the country out of the crisis and of improving the situation new you Robbie. You said you understand I believe that there should be no fear about Putin's policy in this country or in Europe taboo it yasnaya polyana. I believe that he will have clear cut policies. He will have predictable policies. Can you believe that? She was policies will not defend Russia's interest, but it will be a constructive policy. You have taught me to consummate sometimes our American counterparts don't like when someone is passionately protecting one's nation's interest, right? But I say, well, what about President Clinton and Madeleine Albright? They have American interest in mind. We live in a world where there are other interests the interests of other nations. So let's take those interests into account too. So Britain, yeah, don't worry. I'm sure we'll be still in your acting to noise while protecting our interests. We will also want to cooperate welcome. He will An open policy a policy of dialogue, so it'll be a strong policy and it'll be a policy that will be clear-cut and predictable. I believe that that is all as it should be. We already have gained great experience in working together and in solving problems together sporos name category very soon. We will learn what will be the choices that the new president is going to make I very much hope that it will be the kind of choices that I have recommended. I hope so very much, but she was Avenue. Thank you very much. (00:56:54) I called garbage a former president of the Soviet Union. He spoke Saturday night at the center of the American experiments annual dinner that was held in Minneapolis. Now, if you missed part of mr. Gorbachev speech you can hear it in its entirety on our website npr.org just click on and you can hear the speech in its entirety MP r dot orgy matter fact, we started a new service now have a whole week's worth of middays on our website. So get a full week to catch up on a program that you missed or if you know somebody who'd be interested in the program. Maybe they didn't hear it suggests a check it out on our website npr.org one other related note eduard shevardnadze you might remember he was Gorbachev Soviet foreign minister. Well, he's still in office. He was re-elected to another term as the president of, Georgia. There's some question about the vote some charges of irregularities tomorrow on midday. It's off to the National Press Club. We're going to hear from the co-founder of Yahoo on Mondays All Things Considered Fargo residents battle over using public money to fund a new multi-use Arena that story plus all the news on Mondays All Things Considered weekdays at 3:00 on Minnesota Public Radio. You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. We have a partly cloudy Sky 43 degrees at Kenner wfm 91.1 Minneapolis. And st. Paul The Weather Service says is going to Cloud up this afternoon with a high about where it is, maybe another degree or two warmer tonight chance for light snow low 30 to 35 tomorrow partly cloudy with a high in the upper 40s.