I am Tim McGuire the editor the Star Tribune in a board member of Minnesota meeting. It's a great pleasure to welcome all of you to today's Minnesota meeting. I would also like to welcome my radio audience throughout the Upper Midwest. We're hearing this program in Minnesota public radio's midday program broadcast of Minnesota meeting are made possible by the law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and Donnelly with offices in Minneapolis-Saint Paul and major cities in the United States and Europe members of Minnesota meeting represent. This community's leaders from corporations government Academia, and the professions. We meet 10 times a year to hear from to hear from and question leaders of national and international stature. This is our 17th year in the marketplace of ideas.We are here today to discuss yesterday's election and to examine what the results will mean for our state and for our country over the next two to four years. It was quite a night. This populous state has made national headlines with the election of Jesse the Mind Ventura. And nationally it looks like the Clinton Monica story may have backlash to bit for the Republicans. But we're going to find out the real truth on the real skinny today because we're very fortunate to have with us to a Minnesota leading political thinkers. Former Congressman Tim penny a Democrat and Vin Weber a republican. This is the third time we've done this kind of session. Mr. Penny and mr. Weber are now co-directors of the Humphrey Institute policy for him at the University of Minnesota in both remain active in their parties both. I'm also proud to say our new board members of the Minnesota meeting. Mr. Weber, as you might recall led the group of State Republican leaders Who convinced Norm Coleman to switch parties and later run for governor. I don't mean to rub that in. Haha, haha. It's written right here in 1996 was a Top member of the door for president team serving as both a national co-chair and its director of policy and you don't mean to rub that in. You're right. Of course. Mr. Weber is now a managing partner the Washington lobbying firm Clark and Weinstock and is the co-director of Empower America the conservative think tank. You found it with a number of other prominent conservative. Mr. Weber represented, Minnesota 2nd District in the United States House of Representatives from 1980 to 1992 is also kept a very high-profile since leaving the house in 1994. He is on the board of directors of the Concord Coalition in his senior counselor with Twin City public relations firm Emily Horner. Mr. Penny was an active leader in Ted mondale's bid for the Democratic nomination for governor. Don't mean to rub that in either. And are you getting a drift here? And following the primary threw his weight behind attorney general Humphrey. Mr. Penny is also authored several books on politics is most recent which is caused a bit of a stir since it was released just a month ago is titled kechely the 15 biggest lies and politics his two previous books common sense and payment due make cogent Arguments for reducing the national debt is riding on public affairs appears regularly in my newspaper the Star Tribune The Washington Post and New York Times and the Saint Paul Pioneer Press. In a minute, I'm going to ask mr. Penny and mr. Weber to give us their observations on what happened last night, then we'll move into a free-flowing discussion which why I will do my level best to moderate and we will of course take your questions James mracek executive director the Minnesota meeting and her partner can darling will move them on you to manage the question and answer session. When is your job the table yet? I guess so first of all, I just want to say what a pleasure it is to be with all of you again. And with you Tim the editor of the paper the champion the Humphrey candidacy all the way from the primary through its 27% of the vote that I don't want to rub that in. It was a carefully selected Pala where else could you found three people who all got it wrong yesterday. I was I was shocked and surprised both nationally and at the state level but in very very different ways at the national level as Republican no matter what all of the gifted Spin Doctors in my party. Most of the friends of mine will tell you there is no good news nationally for the Republicans yesterday we can argue about the magnitude of the good news for Democrats. I tend to think the best definition of last night is in terms of Republican mistakes rather than Democrat successes, but who cares, you know when you count the votes so you win when their way or the other and it was a bad night for Republicans. It'll have implications that I'm sure we'll talk about this morning a message in Minnesota was equally shocking but a different one for my snap, but I never in my life thought Jesse Ventura would win. Have to say my candidate Norm Coleman was an excellent candidate and I am proud to have been for him. And I buy thank you perform. Well, and I think he will would be a great governor for our state and I if it has been a two-way race the exit polling shows, he would have one would have one pretty comfortably the good news if there's good news for my party, which there's none of the national I would have Minnesota. There is some good news last night. When you take the sign if you were Humphrey the standard-bearer the dfl and reducing to 27% of the vote teens among young voters and the Republicans take the House of Representatives. You have to say it certainly the only thing worse than being a republican this morning in Minnesota is being a d flr. Well, mr. Miller. What are your reactions to that? Although the word is you took the dfl on pretty good last night on Kare 11. What are your thoughts? Well, I guess I made you a little more of the same at today. This was really a body slam up that material all by himself to the body politic and it since I was a high school wrestler. Let me maybe that's why I'm smiling a little bit this morning. It was it was easier to watch last night than it was for a lot of my Democratic friends. Wrestling terms start of a match you need to take down your opponent. So take down score some points. And this was clearly a takedown on the part of Ventura and any did it against the tag team the Democratic and the Republican candidate. This is more troubling for Democrats and Republicans because his been noted we came in third and I think most everyone expect in in the Democratic Camp expected to be just the opposite with Humphrey in the upper thirties Coleman about where he ended up in end and Ventura settling into that third place lot. So this is this is particularly troubling for Democrats given the fact that we had a third-place showing and did really know better this year as a party than we did a four years earlier when our candidate lost to Carlson then once you're on the mat a reversal is when You take the advantage you reverse positions with your opponent and that's what's happened in the Minnesota House of Representatives has Republicans have taken control of the house. So we now have a divided government with Republican house the Democratic Senate and a Reform Party candidate in the governorship. It causes me to think that they're the State of the Union may start with the these words. Are you ready to rumble? Clearly Jessie, Jessie is of a mood to bring us together into and the partisan bickering but Ben and I both know that partisan instincts are run strong and the Republicans in the house and Democrats in the Senate may not be as ready to cooperate with Jesse as he would like them to be another wrestling term is a nearfall is when you have your opponent on his back and you don't pin them but you come close to finding them you score points, then to it was a nearfall for Democrats last night 10 years ago Democrats controlled all five Statewide constitutional Law Offices Governor attorney general secretary state auditor and Treasurer as of last night. We now hold two of those offices only two. We I turned over to the Republicans not only the auditor's office, which they've held for one term already at Secretary of State's office with Mary kiffmeyer. So this is this is a nearfall for the Democrats. So we fall in a long ways and 10 years. And and finally the big win in wrestling is a pen. And I think what has been pinned flat to the mat in this election is any idea of spending Surplus? Then about the 11:30 you and I think it was Channel 4 and you expressed optimism at that point and I believe that at that moment or about 50% of the precincts in I know because I was looking at the same numbers and I thought you were talking truth that it looked like there was a scenario in which Coleman could catch up what happened across the state in what was interesting as you watch those results coming remember what it happened the course of the evening item analysis was not terribly complicated. I'm in Norm Coleman started out the night at about 30% of the vote by that 11:30 time that you cited him. He had risen to 34% of the vote on free wood Fallen dramatically and Jesse was holding at 37. So I thought it was plausible with half the load yet to come in to say he might continue that climb more plausible because I assumed with more of the rule vote yet to come in that that Jesse Ventura might well show considerable weakness in the reel parts. The state where Norm Coleman I thought having campaigned out there with him last week would show considerable strength. I really believe that I wasn't just trying to spend what what didn't happen is we we kept looking around the state trying to find a place where Jesse Ventura would simply have no support where he would we would say. Yeah, he wasn't really a Statewide candidates. He was a phenomenal in the Twin Cities and maybe on the internet. We did not find that Jesse had support all across the board that we beat him in some southern and western Minnesota counties, but not by any kind of the margin that would have allowed us to close that Gap substantially and it it says a lot about this event or phenomenon that it will all be analyzing this for a long time. But it's it's a lot more than a bunch of young guys in the Twin Cities that are off on a lark. This was a fairly widespread victory for Jesse from Jesse Ventura there. What there is something to be said about all the new people that registered and and the the way in which the the younger voters went heavily for Ventura and we can talk about that later. I want to follow up on but I do want I do want to give an anecdotal a piece of evidence to back up with Dennis just said about how the real part of the state voted. My home county Waseca County is is typical of rural county is you will find we had 85% turnout in Waseca County. We had a competitive a sheriff's race that always drives turn out but 85% and most of these people were traditional voters. We did we did have some voter registration on Election Day, but not not by an enormous numbers. And so as you look at what happened in Waseca County you were basically looking at the typical voter base. And the county which normally would go for a candidate like Coleman when heavily for Jesse Ventura for a quote youth-oriented strategy has ever worked in the past for a candidate with great appeal to young people actually succeed in the election day on getting them to vote quite a unique thing. Let's talk a little bit about what is the appeal a week just had some little survey taken in this room. And then that appeal was obviously not here in this room. What was that a picture on a shirt with rolled-up sleeves in the room here either that's a piece of it that politics has been dominated by I didn't buy. Typical politicians and an end the problem for both norm and Skip is that they were playing it. According to the rules and the rules are that you secure your base and then you try not to make any major mistakes so that the alien ate that to handful of undecided that are going to decide the election in with Ventura in the race. You can't wager campaign on those traditional terms. He threw a major curve into this contest and I don't think either campaign effectively sorted that out a factored it in and and to change their strategy accordingly to that but clearly both campaigns missed you misjudge Jesse Ventura, the Humphrey campaign famously misjudged him on the issue of the debates demanding that he be in the debates, which was a big break that he got in the campaign. We saw that and are pulling that began his March up but both candidates also, this is an interesting thing to think about it for a second Tim has been a leader and I have tried to support him in talking about the negative campaigning and it's it's deleterious effect. How to put up the process there was no negative campaigning against Jesse Ventura. We didn't talk about his lack of a program. We didn't talk about some of his more bizarre positions on issues. Is that a good thing or a bad thing? I don't know. I had the two maybe the reaction would have simply been against both major candidates if they had but maybe not I have to wonder if if there are not times when properly constructed negative campaigns that genuinely inform can it's about voters volcanic positions on issues aren't appropriate and maybe want to listen to this campaign was you shouldn't paint with quite such a brush and we say all negative campaigning is bad little negative campaigning might have changed this election, although in some respects Jesse benefited from the contrast that because these two major candidates were were pretending that he wasn't in the mix and they went in traditional a fashion after one another with heavy buys of negative ads on both TV and radio and if Jesse was able to step into the middle and Stacy they're just behaving like politicians always behave it's nothing but mudslinging and I'm here to tell you that that both parties and I are out of them are out of touch with the Minnesota boaters because we deserve better politics in that state government and the question was being asked this morning on the radio is can he govern and how Let me start with that. I think that there is there. I can give you both sides of that and the challenge that he faces of course is a challenge that makes most third-party candidate to succeed unsuccessful in government which has he has he has a real job of political leadership ahead of him. He has no members of the Reform Party obviously in the legislature and and he has a divided legislature Republican house. Now Democrats take Senate and it requires a lot of political skill on his part and we simply don't know if he has those political skills, but some independent or Reform Party Governors could have Angus King the independent governor of Maine has been quite successful got re-elected by a large. Margin Last Knight faces the same exact set of problems with Jesse Ventura will face and copes with them. Well, I think that there is a there for the governor-elect Ventura that that he might be able to Garner a lot of support behind it and it could have some broad Appeal on the one hand. He announced on The Today Show this morning. I see what he's going to do when he said he's going to cut taxes and spending and I thought I mean that's that's that's all I can tell I can tell him I'm sure he knows this but the Republican majority in Minnesota open to that message and we'll work with him if they're smart they'll work with them on that and I would guess that they all the Democrats want to put their imprint on it and sent it. I would doubt that the Democrats would taste simply take the position of trying to block AAA Reform Party Republican tax cut. I think they try to cooperate and the second piece of it that I think could be kind of interesting is truly the Reform Party its name implies. This has always put political reform at the top of its agenda. I don't know exactly what Jesse Ventura wants to do in that regard, but there is it seems to me an opening for maybe some positive political or perhaps on the campaign Finance Sitel. It's very complicated issue and I would almost hate to stick your neck out and predict predict things, but I would almost predict you'll see a change in the way Minnesota chooses candidates. after this next legislature, we may well say move to primaries that certainly has been on the agenda of the Reform Party and a lot of people in both parties are going to look at the results of the endorsement system this time and say it did not serve our parties well, I think there are some issues on which he obviously we'll have a natural alliance with Republicans in in downsizing government and and cutting taxes. I certainly would would fall into that category in terms of government reform campaign Finance reform. If he decides to pursue that those are issues that that the result in a more natural alliance with Democrats. So I think there are opportunities for him to work with coalition's from both sides and I think that he's sincere in his intent to approach you both camps of with with an open hand whether he can get that done Remains the big question. I think right now the challenge and challenge for Jesse is despite. All of this National media coverage is is to avoid saying much of anything. I think it would be well-advised to say as little as possible. You can you can get through most of these interviews with generalities. Don't make any huge policy. Pronouncements and certainly don't start hiring your staff yet and if you can lay low and and maybe put together a respected group is sort of an Advisory Group a kitchen cabinet and in sort this out over the next few weeks and then begin to make some of those important decisions. I think you'll be off to a relatively good start but isn't lying low pretty much against character. Perhaps the most profound things said on TV last night came from Jesse's wife when she talked about Jesse and his wrestling career and how important it was for him to be the bad guy that all the drama and excitement and all the juices got flowing when he could get people up sat and get people thinking and get people angry. That's what was good of the Minneapolis Tribune. You know, that only means I'll come back. But is he going to be the conciliator that you two are saying he needs to be? I think his political ad demeanor is is different than his Showman's demeanor. I really do believe that that there's a genuine heartfelt commitment on his part to bring a new approach to politics. I think his senses that there is too much partisan partisanship in government at all levels. I think he does believe that we need to approach issues with the looking at all the options. I mean, I think he he could he could release this stimulates some debate about education reform in Minnesota me hear someone that's fully committed the public school system, but is also quite articulate and explaining how it's broken down and isn't working and he may be better able to break a a log Jam on. This education reform debate then either a Democratic or republican governor. And I and I think that's really the in the direction that he wants to go. It's just a matter of whether he can taste this and and And be careful about the way he pursues this so that he doesn't forestall that bipartisan approach. I buy some intemperate remarks that then set him up for a confrontation don't think that you can underestimate the ability of people to grow in the office then and maybe that will happen but it happens a lot of cases, you know, if I can remember a lot of worries and not just in my party about what kind of a governor Rudy perpich would be when he came into office. He had sort of an Iron Range Cowboy reputation. We were I think turned out to be very good governor in pointed the direction on a lot of things and really the first governor to Serious address Minnesota's entry into the global economy. So you can't tell how a governor is going to perform or any other elected official until I actually get into office and they have to face the challenge of growing into that position clearly it but if he doesn't understand that he has to change his a Coach and have a fairly depth and dealing with the legislature particularly. He will fail but I I think that you know, I was as minnesotans we all are to not want that to happen. I have to say I don't want to be an altar boy about this but you know, we're all sitting here lamenting the loss of our candidates and I was a little nervous about the number of people said they were embarrassed by and we have a vested interest in having this Governor succeed is going to be our governor for four years and we out of hope that he succeeds. How big is the party in the white house today? Oh, I think pretty big. I think the only question is is a little too big Democrats nationally have everything to be happy about Republicans simply have to lick their wounds and and hope for another day. The only hesitancy I would say is if the if the president over reaches Andover interprets this as a mandate, he could find himself back in trouble very shortly. I'm in the poles that I've seen do not show that the president had fundamentally transformed His Image. I'm going to show a high level of distrust of the president of high level of disappointment and the disapproval of his behavior by the Republicans overplayed their hand on impeachment among other things if the president understands that I think that he can move toward extricated himself and us from this from this problem well short of impeachment, but if you overplayed his hand he can find himself back in trouble again, I'm close to work inside on this point. I was I was a bit distressed as I drove in this morning and heard the National news report indicating that the president and a couple dozen of friends and advisers were up in the white house celebrating till 2 a.m. I don't I don't think there was a lot to celebrate here. Yes, the close elections virtually all broke for the Democrats that had more to do with the fact that the Republicans were playing an incoming protection game are they were counting on a low voter turnout that they were hoping for a status call outcome and and picking up those clothes seats. The reason they didn't pick up the clothes seats has the Democrats knew what they were up against and they did what they had to do to turn out their base into turn the issues to their advantage. The Clinton factor is is basically this people are sick of the issue. They are sick of the issue and and either way you tried to play this issue in the campaign. It would not work for you. It would work only to turn people off. And now if you ask folks today, my guess is 2/3 would say he's not that present should not be impeached. But you would have about two-thirds say that in some way. He ought to be punished. And so it's it's a really it's it's an issue with a lot of ambivalence. So I think the maybe if there was any message coming out of yesterday, it was that in terms of being a negative Clinton's personal problems were a non-factor, but in terms of being a positive, you know, the first lady travel around to several districts as well and there's no indication that there was any sort of a positive vote coming out of this election in support of the press. Why don't we turn it over to thank thank him for a radio audience. You were listening to Tim McGuire who's the editor of the start reviewing and he's moderating a discussion between former Congressman Tim Kenny and Vin Weber at the Minnesota meeting on the Stations of Minnesota Public Radio. The first question here from Bill dubs and bills president of Williams executive Search. I think you tell me what are your predictions for Jesse Ventura. Do you think you will be a successful governor? But you know, I sort of have already touched a little bit of that. I prefer to be an optimist about it because I want to be optimistic but I think that he can accomplish a great deal and is if he gets off on the right start, I mentioned the area that they got taxes and control spending Tim. I think appropriately said that he has an opportunity on education. Although that requires some real expertise on the issue and it's not to demean him to say a lot of people including just meant you're probably don't have that expertise on the issue and then I think on the issue of political reform if he's the only place I agree with Tim and he needs to go slow on hiring people and keep his mouth shut in a broad sense except for this. I remember we were here and I think for the first time after the 94 elections and we talked about it with what kind of a Man dates Republicans might have had. My member went one of my observations that as it was two years before that after the Clinton elections, every winter started to find his own mandate between the election and the time that he takes office. And Jesse Ventura has to Define what he's going to claim as a mandate between noun time he takes office and it can't be too broad or to over-reaching. It has to take a look at this very complicated political situations got the legislature. But if you were to say no tax reduction control of spending, I'll struggle bipartisan educational reform package and a political reform package is going to be my agenda. He has a great opportunity. I think to do some things in a bipartisan basis. I think there's a bit of a risk here and it applies to all third-party candidacies that end up a successful. You have a very diverse base and lot of people come to support you for different reasons. In other words. They read different things into what year Campaign is all about or what your candidacy is all about and and Jesse needs to understand that this is this is more of a send them a message, but then then an agenda boat and so you're right as he cobbled together in the end. I think he has to be sensitive to a focusing on those issues that he knows are closest to what his voters were trying to say in this election. So as not to disillusion the very people that came into the process with some enthusiasm for him. I don't think that he ought I think that he ought to be somewhat circumspect and and and and do his van has said I think what you've outlined is is Right On Target, but he also has to do that without losing the common touch because that's really what people respond to and he has to be willing to take the kinds of risks that he took in the campaign to say some things that most politicians wouldn't say and in that sense. He is a little bit like Rudy perpich. We tried a lot of new ideas some some good and some not so good, but he wasn't afraid to try and fail and I think Jesse Ventura has the sort of persona where people will accept that sort of experimental leadership. Thank you very much. Mr. Penny. Mr. Weber. We have a question now from Charles Denny the retired chairman of ADC telecommunications check. Thank you. This will be a question for Ben Ben. Most commentators regards last night's national elections as a significant defeat for the Republicans. If that's true shut the national leadership be held accountable. And if so in what way it was a defeat and they can't avoid accountability. I think among Republicans in Washington fire. The primary area in which they are going to falter leadership is not the prosecution of the issue of impeachment. That's a subtext. The main issue was if you will the Congressional end game or after 2 years of rain or Republicans in the Congress. We ended up giving up on our primary economic objective of tax reduction agreeing to a large spending bill which began eating into the Surplus. We've we've accumulated and getting virtually nothing from a republican standpoint in return. That's that's what they're going to be held accountable for and I think you're going to see some very raucous days ahead within the Republican party in Washington. I do not think at the end of the day, it is likely that that will result in major leadership changes mainly because there aren't you if you start looking at who are the likely challenges to a Gingrich, you're an army or even to Trent Lott in the Senate they didn't they don't come immediately to mind to me and I think if there was going to French than Bill Paxton retired this year. If Bill had run for re-election, I think you hear an awful lot of talk today about PacSun for speaker a PacSun for majority leader cuz he was being talked about by people for that job at that even before we left but there's nobody there that the could probably do that other than the very closest most loyal allies of both lot and Gingrich in there that's hard to imagine and they know people like Bob Livingston the chairman of the Appropriations Committee David dreier the incoming chairman of the rules committee. Nichols the house with deciding that they're going to break with their leaders and friends and take him out. I don't sit so I don't see it happening. I see a lot of discontent rumors tumultuous conferences and caucuses at the end of the day. My guess is you won't see a change. Can we have a number of students here today? All of our corporate sponsor sponsor on different schools. We've got some students here from Murray Junior High and says kashyap Apocrypha and what grade are you in 8th grade? And what's your question our school took a vote yesterday and Mister ventura1. Why do you think that he won yesterday? Are you saying that why do you think that most young people voted for him? We talked with Todd a little bit about that or a lot about that I guess up to now. What why why did he win at the end of the day? I'll particularly among young people. I think there's there's a desire for somebody that talks a little differently than the average politician young people are not sore the politicized as all of us in this room are into listening to politicians talk the way that Tim and I are talking to you today. I want somebody that appears to be a more plain-spoken Shelby says is I think appealing to young people intend to a lot of people people that are not so young as as well. And I I I also think I don't want to be too critical of everyone, Victory deserves. A lot of credit. There is a little element of people being willing to sort of take the Lark on this election. And we saw that died in 1992 with the Provo to I was looking at the polling and you try to look at this one time. No Pro LED in a three-way race with bush and and Clinton and you find almost nothing that United the pro voters in terms of what they believe that nothing at all except a desire to make a statement against the system and an attraction at that time hard to believe in that respect to the personality of Ross Perot. I think with no disrespect to the governor-elect. There's a lot of that in his election and an element of a lark and popular vote for him who who are not quite sure why substance livly or programmatically they did but they like the idea of a fresh face and somebody that speaks plainly the voters. I think that's a big piece is that he didn't look obviously he didn't look like a typical politician and and younger voters that have been turned off with the the start of the blow dryer. Soundbite aspects of American politics today it's it's largely irrelevant to them. These are not people they can relate to I think that's that's the largest single factor. I think there's another piece of this though and that's that to the degree. They understood what his views were. His views were essentially libertarian views. And if you look at young people today more than ever as they are essentially socially liberal and tolerant but they are fiscally conservative because they understand that the government is big and that their payroll taxes are are onerous. They're not impressed with big Government Solutions the wait may be yours in my generation of young people were and and that's being reflected in in in the Jesse Ventura is a peel one last point if I might Tim this is another aspect tonight. I want to get this out because I think this is something that my party really needs to pop. It's one of the reasons that I'll defend myself for supporting Ted Mondale in in the primary because I think he could have done more to reach out to young voters with it as socially liberal fiscally conservative message. Here's here's how an exit poll broke out on age brackets for Humphrey only 19% of those 18229 voted Humphrey 27% of 3244 year olds go to Humphrey 35% of 45 to 59 year olds voted Humphrey and 45% of those over 60 blood and Humphrey the older you get the more you voted Democratic and we cannot survive as a party with those sorts of numbers. I'd like to follow up on Conyers. Excuse me. I want to follow up on your point that people are reacting to the blow-dried soundbite kind of thing because I think there's a heck of an argument isn't there that Jesse Ventura is the master of the sound bite. Yes, I mean there is there is an argument that can be made but but at least his sound bites a sound like the way the rest of us talked. Thank you very much gentleman for a radio audience you listening to Vin Weber a republican former Congressman of Minnesota and Tim penny a democratic former Congressman of Minnesota and a panel discussion moderated by Tim McGuire editor of a Star Tribune. We have a question now from Jerry Joseph who chairs the The Advisory Board of the Humphrey Institute of public affairs at the University of Minnesota. Tim and Van you've talked mainly about the selection in terms of the individual candidates and there is no doubt that the individual candidates had a lot to do with what happened. But I think that there are a lot of us who are concerned about. What is the message for the two political parties. I mean, it's a very clear there's something wrong. I don't think that's anything new. I think a number of us have been trying to look at this time to figure out what are the directions at these parties. I should be going that they are not going what changes do they need to make an in the in the process and I think you have to factor into that this last question which really had to do a sound bite but the enormous impact of television on the border and I think all of these are tied in with what happens to the two political parties or are we seeing the beginning of the third party movement elsewhere as well? Well there you're not going to like my answer cuz I I think that there is there are messages to both parties. I think the way in which you pick candidates is out motor does not relate Yankee Lo relate to it. I think that they're very at the domination of that process by the etiological polls is troublesome to people and the role of us who come out came up through in support of the caucus process is caucus process is seen as a horribly Antiquated Thing by by most voters these days that's a message to both parties. I think but I have to say I mean, I don't want to deliver to partisan message but the message for yesterday was really manly end of the democratic party are messages. It's too bad that we have Norm Coleman with a landslide in the exit polling I shall so it wouldn't show it would not been I've been a close election between Norm Coleman and Skip Humphrey we did take the House of Representatives and Ventura is talking about governing essentially on our Agenda show of the message. I must say you don't get to the Democratic party seems to me to be the primary message from yesterday as well. I think a piece of what was going on yesterday is that from the average Waters perspective, they weren't hearing terribly important debate between Cullman and Humphrey. It's not say that it was an issue as campaign in Coleman was talking about a variety of issues in in in a rather substantiv way. So was skip but what they heard from one side was way too much of just one issue. It was tax cuts taxes tax cuts, and there was a sense that the campaign was sort of a manipulative campaign trying to just drive us to do, you know vote on that issue on that issue alone. And it also I think left people a feeling as if they Is is if this was an over promise that you know, all the temples in tax cuts, how can you cut all those tax taxes all at once? So you're giving relief get everybody from Farmers tip. It just it just wasn't enough day. They felt like it was somewhat of a Halo campaign because it was so one-dimensional and so focused on just that one issue part of of skip it was took took on the impression of everything for everybody believing in Minnesota is believing that we can do everything better and it started defied logic to think that we can afford to do all these things. So we couldn't afford the kind of tax cut call mom was talking about it sounded too bad. We couldn't afford all the things skip was talking about and end with Jesse came through with was was more of a common sense alternative which is to say that the federal government is are the state governments pretty big right now and end. It doesn't need to get bigger. And if we have a surplus are probably got to be to give it back and and that That sort of kept that cut the difference between the two so so what are the pottery parties have to do here? I think we need to recognize that. We have a new group coming along that are socially liberal in this is going to be a problem for Republican candidates going forward and a fiscally conservative and and that is the Battleground I think for the time for the time being and in that will be the segment of the electric that will determine the outcome in Minnesota for the foreseeable future. I'm thinking we have our next question here from George Pillsbury, who's the former state senator just a question or a comment sir. New the governor-elect Ventura has an opportunity to really underline the word reform. He see ahead of the Reform Party. I can't think of any more major form to change how we have a state legislature. I happen to know if maybe it was in his campaign that Jesse is very strong for eliminating. What is the largest state senate in the United States and reforming so we have a single house legislature and he's going to be held this year by having a new speaker who is very strong for I think of house. Hi, we have leadership in the Senate from the president Alan spier and I'm sitting next to Center to Clyde's from St. Cloud. Who is Republican. So it's a bipartisan effort in this headed. Now my question to Tim into event. Do you think this is something that would attract possible success and something that really emphasized that Ventura is a reform candidate. I think it's a very popular issue George. I thought I think you're you're right if Jesse Ventura wants to take on the issue of abolishing one house legislature in establishing unicameral. I think public will back him on it. And I think it he can put together a tremendous amount of momentum behind it is speaking in Practical political terms as a republican that it's hard for me to argue against Adam and Steve swiggum in the House Republicans out a jump up and down. So yes, we're with your governor and Rodger Moore will have to decide what he's going to say, but that puts them in a real Vice in the state senate to oppose a popular Initiative for the purpose that is going to be fair. There are valid arguments against the unicameral and even though I think that there are compelling Arguments for it, but the public won't see those who see the state senators back to protect to protect their own self-interest and that won't sit. Well the question is is he really going to take this on and at the end of the day we talked about a number of issues now we're starting to add more to Do too much. I mean if you give you defines too big of an agenda, he'll start to lose it all but if he would want to take this on as one of his principal agenda item, I think you can move along way with a time. We going to go by Louis the treasurer's office yesterday. So there's a I think a palpable desire on the part of a lot of Minnesota lot of Otis across the country to eliminate government and not and end in cases elected government that they see is unnecessary and duplicative. Well, this is an issue that has some potential to be one of those defining issues in a a Ventura Administration but I think is well that he's got to pick his shots and end and think very carefully about the reform issue that he wants to Define at this governorship this one in George and I have talked about this before that. There are some valid arguments against us and in some of them will come from rural legislators that will say. Hey we have precious little representation out here already if we give up one chamber of the Fletcher that means a much larger District send and in some respects a smaller voice for real Minnesota. So you always get that sort of a concern on on the other hand. They're here arguments. We can use the state senate for grain storage. the counter argument The counter argument to those legislators that might resist this is this ideas to do what they've done in the state of Nebraska. The only state that does have a unicameral legislature and that's call everybody in the legislature a senator and I didn't know that thanks very much time and we have a question now from Karen him late who's the public affairs executive with the Saint Paul companies? Those of us in the business Community are quite familiar with dealing with Democratic Leadership and Republican leadership. But when I woke up this morning, my greatest fear was how to navigate the uncharted waters of what Jesse Ventura represents to the business Community. What words of comfort of council, can you give to us? Can we go first I'll wait a minute. I don't know care and I think I was I was thinking about this discussion that's going to be a tough situation at me because if any of the Reform Party by its definition of populist party, it stands against quote the entrenched interest groups and I think that the relationship of the business Community could be a very Rocky when I like, I don't know that I have any any magic bullet. I think you just need to send in. Everybody has to come back to my my my little preaching a couple minutes. We got to take this guy. Seriously if we care about Minnesota and the business Community should not take the position that we're scared of this guy think he's just a joke or anything like that. They oughta sit down and seriously talk about him and ask when your Governor what's your agenda? Where can we be helpful here is that we care about and see what happens to them is a serious guy, I think. I'll endorse those remarks and the only consolation I will offer those in the business at community that are somewhat uncertain of a relationship with a Populist and I or at least the governor that that that won an election on the strength of a populist message is that organized labor? I can't make any assumptions about a Ventura Administration either here is an individual that I think has strong appeal to blue-collar workers around Minnesota. And yes, he will not be taking positions. I'm convinced as Governor that are right down the union agenda and so in some ways this throws a curve to the Union's just as it throws a curve to the business sector, how would you have to work with this governor? And and I think he's going to surprise both sides to some extent Weis Builders. We have time for a couple more questions to him. This is a very negative question. But I guess you can blame it on the fact that I'm a very sore loser. As the evening wore on and it appears that Jesse could win I made a prediction to my Republican friends that within a year ebm Peach. Is that a possibility? If he's going to get impeached, can we buy a whole bunch of guys all at once? You have to deliver the message Man. Nobody's going to want to tell him know I obviously there there's the potential for policy differences with this Governor. I don't think there's the heavy potential for malfeasance. I really think that he's a patriotic American down to his car and he's going to want to do the best he can to put people in this Administration. If you can find them that will really be careful about the way they manage the Affairs of government and will not do anything that that would raise questions about his about his administration or about his ethics etcetera having said that dealt with will he be in political trouble within a couple of years frankly? I think there's another way of looking at this if he has a relatively successful tenure and Right. Now let's bet that he will he could cause political trouble for others around the state. If for example, I were an incumbent Congressman that's been in for several terms but hasn't been winning by a big margin and there are a few Luther Bento. I would I would worry about the Ventura factor in the year 2000 election because if he goes after typical politician's at the federal level the way he went after typical politicians in this gubernatorial race. There's there's a bunch of Voters out there that I moved by that message to quick answers. Mrs. Jesse Hodge says he is a Richfield High School student. Okay, great. I just have a question. How do you see the reception of a campaign Finance reform initiative in the state legislature? Serious question what one of the things if you look at all the referendum and some kind of interesting that it as a political analyst to look at all the referendum took place yesterday, which go get to looking out of the next week or two weeks lot of campaign Finance reform referenda around the country that I saw past and I think that there's a great desire to do something about campaign financing the devil in this is truly in the details cuz Tim and I can agree that we don't like the political Finance system we got now and there's all sorts of problems. But you start talking about what should we actually do about it and that agreement almost always breaks down a lot and that would really be tested political skill. He would be doing something that nobody in washing it even people genuinely believed in complete campaign Finance reform and Washington both parties have succeeded in doing I think Jesse would want a campaign Finance system. That would make it a lot easier a lot more attractive for the average person to give some money and I'm not sure here. Again. This is a matter of I think he has to take a political reform issue and it make it one of the centerpieces of his new administration because that that in a way K'Nex what happened on Tuesday with what's going to happen in his administration that you have to be? You have to honor that mandate in some fashion at but I think it's really up to him to decide whether it's the financing issues that if that best just speaks to the the agenda that he was trying to articulate this reform agenda that he was trying to articulate in the campaign. I think there's like it could be done in that front and Deb because he came into this job unencumbered by any special interest money. He's probably best suited to do that if he chooses to thank you Tim and Vin for your insights and observations on behalf of minutes to go to meeting. I would like to present to each of you a token of our appreciation. This is your third appearance with us. So we have a very special gift for you a miniature sculpture of the turtle with dream that created by a play artist Robert Roseberry who also does the Minnesota meeting me peace pipe, we give you the sculpture hoping that all your dreams come true in and hope that the dreams of Minnesota voters come true. Thank you all for coming today.