6 minutes now past 12 Good afternoon, and welcome back to mid-day of Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Gary eichten. Well, despite all the controversy surrounding President Clinton his approval ratings remain at near record levels leading many political analysts to draw the conclusion that character no longer matters in this country. However, poster Peter Hart says those analysts are drawing the wrong conclusion character. He says does count and in fact will play a major role in the next presidential election Peter Hart is widely regarded as one of America's leaders in the field of survey research over the years. She's worked with many of America's best-known politicians, including Minnesota Zone Walter Mondale when Mr. Mondale was running for president in Nineteen Eighty-Four part has worked with both CBS and NBC on their election coverage and since 1989. He's been conducting polls for NBC News and the Wall Street Journal. Heart delivered the Frank primack Memorial lecture. That's a lecture sponsored each year by the Minnesota journalism Center Donner long time Minneapolis Tribune reporter and editor Frank primack heart titled his speech politics 1998 public and private character in America, Minnesota almost feels like a second home. I did work for Walter Mondale person who I have a great deal of respect and we know that the state of Minnesota voted correctly. We couldn't figure out why the other 49 states where did quite not quite as smart but indeed Warren Spanish is is a former client Hubert Humphrey by Wendy Anderson Rudy perpich and Don Frazier all clients who I've had the great honor of working of working for it and I have to tell you I Hubert Humphrey Story the back in 19 60 when I was looking at colleges and trying to figure out where I was going and there was more than enough questions about where I could possibly end up I met Hubert Humphrey and he said to me young man. Where are you going to college? And I said, well Senator, I'm kind of a? And he turned me without batting an eye and said you look like an! To me and that's always the way Hubert Humphrey was and Hubert Humphrey as a client with somebody who I must tell you brought a broader span to the understanding of public opinion and understanding survey research. We would ask a certain number of question and Sundry and Vice President Humphrey could look at it in a much much broader context and let me say that while I'm sure I had the opportunity to be interviewed at On stage by Frank primack. He is obviously a special individual because I was talking to one of my best friends a Minnesotan from Michael Berman who worked with who worked with Walter Mondale with Hubert Humphrey Wendy Anderson and many of the others and I said, I was coming out here for this lecture and he said to me, you know, Frank primack had a tremendous effect on me. Tell me about you. So well one day he found and I said, I was working for Mondale at the time and I started moaning about this bill or that problem or whatever else it is, and he said to me I'll trade you chop straight up right now. Ask your major person in the field of Journalism ready to trade me jobs straight up. He said look you work for one of a hundred people you have his ear this the person who has the ability to change policy and make a difference in America recognize what you had. He said never again. Did I did I doubt how lucky and fortunate I was and I'm sure that that kind of influence he had on many of you here. I'm delighted be here. And I thought tonight we might have a little fun do something a little bit different and instead of giving some hundred heavy talk here. If you don't mind. I thought I'd take you inside 6800 Pennsylvania Avenue and tell you what I do for my profession and that is a brief brief elected officials. I talk to people about public policy. And so I thought I'd take my last work that I've done with NBC and the Wall Street Journal which over the last couple of weeks. I've been down at 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue and take you and give you a presentation of what of what goes on and how we look at public opinion in that way and if we've got this I think this will work. This indeed NBC Wall Street Journal poll that was done at the beginning of March. I'll also have some data from a few other polls. But what I start with Miss Preston, if you don't mind in this briefing is to give you a sense of where the American public opinion is. This is probably the best in single most reliable measurement of how our country feels about itself and that's the simple question. I think headed in the right direction where they seriously off on the wrong track and I can tell you miss Preston indeed what we have here is good news. The American public is upbeat and it's optimistic. This is probably the longest sustained. Of positive feelings that the American public has had since 1984. I indeed overall 53% of the American public say things are headed in the right direction from all professions blue-collar white-collar and professional executive feel. Things are headed in the right direction. I would tell you it's a nation that's upbeat on itself. And the second thing that I would tell you it's a time when we can both Challenge and ask for more from the country times will change and I would simply say use this time and use it well, If that's one element, let me talk about a second element and that is this is really an unusual. A. That the students will have never seen during their lifetimes and adults will have to go back to pre Watergate. To remember this it is the best year for an incumbent since 1972. If the country is supposed to have the six year itch after having a president and there's everything caves in in terms of attitudes towards the Congress and we go through this huge cataclysmic change and we talked about it always happening and we look back to different. Let me just tell you I have never in terms of the last 25 years seen a higher approval rating for the Congress than his 57% is the president over all approve of what the Congress is doing Democrats Independents and Republicans all approved. And if you look as we talked about the 1998 election, what is fascinating is while while your ratings may be indeed impressive and the mood of the directed the direction of the country is positive. What I would tell you is this is a very content electric overall by a margin of 41 to 37 at this stage the preferred outcome for the 1998 election would be a republican-controlled congress. It tends to be a status quo election versus a change election in Washington. This is probably the single most watched number if you look I would tell you the Republicans have a vested interest in the status quo incumbents are looking better than ever. If I were to make a guess Miss president what Newt Gingrich the speaker is telling his cohorts is says avoid the big mistake in 1998. Do not let the Democrats outflank us on Tobacco or Social Security and play it right down the middle having said that let me turn if I can now and talk back to your job performance. If I would say overall the word would be congratulation despite all the controversy despite. All that is happening. You are at a high water mark higher than Eisenhower in a second term better than Reagan and indeed if you look there's no gender gap both men and women give you positive job ratings. You do marvelously with Independents and moderates and even for in 10 Republicans give you a positive performance. If you look at this, you are pressed with the following Buttonwood ministration without a theme. What I would tell you is as marvelous as your job writing is do not miss read this. This is not an endorsement of your private Behavior indeed. What you would say is it is being driven by the economic news. It is what you have provided over rather than what you accomplished. I would tell you you need a mission. You cannot you cannot lock a positive job writing into a ball and save it. It is like sand slips through one's fingers and indeed what it says is suspended or looser. Having said that if I could miss Preston, I'd like to leave but I know you want the rest of the story. So I'll take you through the rest of the story which it may not be quite as pleasant. Let me start if I could with the overall attitude personal attitudes towards you and let me tell you that this number that I show you here is taken from our Poll for NBC last week after the the judge's ruling on the Paula Jones dismissal and this is really the other half the story. This is a real Decline and what it says, is that the per No, allegations are indeed taking a toll if you look over the course of a one month. You gone from 57% positive down to 44% positive the negative his climb from 35 up to 44 and let me I mean from 29 to 35. Let me explain one other thing and that is that if you look the change has taken place among Democrats. It's taking place among women among women is gone from 58% positive to 42% positive and among Democrats from 84% down to 67% in that respect. It is come out of the core democratic vote and what it what it says. We did one other question that we have not done this nationally, but we're about to do it nationally for NBC in the Wall Street Journal and we asked the public on a four-part scale. Do you like the president personally respect him personally and feel that he's done a good job feel he's done a good job, but not respect them personally not done a good job. But respect them personally We're Not Gonna done a good job and not respect them over. All you have about 37% of the American public you say you have done a good job and they respect you personally 2% say you've not done a good job, but they respect you personally for the rest of the American public 38% say you've done a good job, but they don't respect you personally and 19% say you've not done a good job and they don't respect you personally what it says is that people are concerned and there's a message you need to see they need to see you in what I would call the back to work situation. You need to be able to return to the basics the things to pee. Respected in 1992 a sense of listening to people caring about people and fighting for people's interest. Let me take you a step further and talk to you directly and honestly about your ratings in terms of character when it comes to the question of character. Do not misread where you're at overall only 30% of the American public give the president either a very high rating or a high rating in terms of overall character value in ethics. 35% Say it slow or very low and the remaining 34% in the middle never been a high I can tell you you go back to 1992 and it wasn't particularly high but this is only part of the story. And what I want to do is take you a step further if you take a look here what is important and interesting to note is that on? Is ethical standards and this is the Washington Post poll going back in 1990 to 44% of the American public said I think he has high ethical standards through all of this and through the last 6 years what you end up with is 35% saying that indeed he remains with high ethical standard not a lot of change a change of 9% But if you turn around and you look at the question of is he honest and trustworthy that has dropped from 51% all the way down to 29% a 22-point drop. The Integrity factor is indeed in important at the heart of this is the ability to leave the country if there's a moral crisis the question is how do you summon the moral Authority it becomes twice as hard and twice it difficult now. If that's the bad side of things the good side for miss it for the president is very simply the fact that the public believes that he understands the average person. They believed it from the beginning that continue to believe but now that number has gone from about 67 down to 56% a sense of compassion a sense of true empathy and I don't know how many people here saw primary colors. I don't know for the rest of you. It's worthy. I would simply tell you if there is a marvelous scene that is quintessentially Bill Clinton. And that is a scene where he is eating at a Krispy Kreme donut shop. And there he is and he's talking one-on-one To The Man Who services the counter and into whatever this series of conversations may be about football or about whatever it is. And that's what Bill Clinton does. He relate to relate swell. The second element is something that has happened to the president and he deserves great credit for over the course of the last two years. If you look at the first two years when he came into office in terms of being a strong leader, he went down and down and down and down and you can see where he was at the election. In 1994 and the neighbor of this. Was in early 1995 but throughout the 1996 election and into today 62% of the American public give him credit for being a strong leader and you can see what happens in terms of the peace Accord in Northern Ireland. There is a sense of internal strength and what I would tell you this Preston out of all of this is the importance of getting back and rounding out the story there needs to be a sense of personalization there needs to be a scent of of the strength and Leadership and the direction. Let me take you one step further. I said I talked about character. I will talk about character and what you can see is that the American public when asked to judge what's most important in a public official whether it's the public character The only thing that matters whether it's a combination of public and private character with public being more important or both being equal or private character what you can see are a couple of things number one. Most people will tell you it is a combination of one thing or another but it is in terms of hierarchies a sense of values where public character counts more than private character. This is not to say that all is well. It's simply to say that the public looks in a different frame and a different way and it's a way of explaining why the polls continue to show the president with such a high rating at the same time that you look at his character marks and they continue to go down the second thing. I do want to say and I would tell vice president coin worth is don't believe the character is unimportant in the year two. There's a sense that somehow the American public has left this component behind it is not left behind and it will be indeed importance in the year 2000. What makes this story different and much more difficult is something that will make everybody in this Auditorium squirm just slightly and that is unlike the 1986 and 1987 the Iran-Contra hearings unlike Watergate. There are a cast of characters involved in this and at the front end if this is the news media, they over jump the story from day one. It's part of electronic journalism where we have around-the-clock news 24/7 as they say and if you look even people who dislike Clinton will tell you by a margin of 221. The media has jumped overboard. The second thing is unlike previous prosecutors. Ken Starr is seen as being overboard. 46 and 10 Americans say they can star is using this investigation for partisan political purposes indeed people who are neutral towards Clinton by better than two-to-one believe that star is using this towards for political purposes. And for the president he is probably as skilfully Place played himself as the victim of star and the media as an Evite. He has figured out if it's Clinton versus the media. He wins. He's figured out if it's Clinton versus Star you with what he can't afford is when it's Clinton versus Clinton. Let me take you a step further and that is the most ticklish and this is the question that we ask just last week. We said suppose the independent counsel. Ken Starr concluded the Bill Clinton committed perjury in his testimony in the Paula Jones case or obstructed Justice and star reports this to the Congress. Do you think the charges would or would not be serious enough to justify Congress beginning impeachment hearings and as you can see despite the fact that the president is sitting with better than a 65% positive job approval. The nation is headed in the right direction. The sense that the economy is overwhelmingly favorable a sense that we are happy with incumbents and the status quo indeed by a margin equal margin 44 to 46. They say hearings would be justified as not just This is probably the single most dangerous result and it's both dangerous for Mister Ed for President Clinton. And the Republican the public has not reached the firm and final conclusion of all of this and certainly no sense that no sense that this should all be put aside if you look even a third of Democrats and remember over 95% of Democrats supported President Clinton in the last election and indeed is job writing is better than 90% positive. A third of them are bothered enough to say it would be justified have hearing if you look at Independence who have been overwhelmingly supported by a margin of a 4247. They say it doesn't justify hearing but a large proportion or there and I think there are two important findings that emerge from this one the star. Still Remains very serious and the president and the public has not exonerated Clinton and I think that's important to know and the second thing which is important to note from this is the the Republicans that we've already talked about find themselves. I think between a rock and a hard place because if you look at this set of numbers there a projective is not to change the status quo or to do something that changes the dynamic in this election, but at the same time if you look at the Republicans back here what we find is fully 64% of them say it would justify a hearing. So the question is do they move ahead with their partisan or the question is do they try and remain to keep the status quo becomes a difficult political question. We've been talking a lot about you Mister Preston and let me talk about sort of where the nation sad. And what is happening in terms of the American character in the American Spirit. It's really a question of getting back to sort of the 1997. At the end when you were setting up what tomorrow is going to be about education and Social Security in dealing with our problem. When we ask the American public as we have over a. Of time, which is what's responsible for the problems facing this country. Are they social and economic problems that faced America which are the result of moral decline of moral values or social and economic problems that are mainly the result of financial pressures and strains on the family as you can see at this moment the American attitudes Equally divided this is in spite of the strong Economic Times. It tells you the importance of the economic pressures and it's instructive about how people operate politically. It's not a simple Democrat vs Republican, but if you will see a lot of what is going on in America is a difference between the Haves and the Have Nots an interesting difference between the Haves and the haves not is really not the economic breaking point, but it is really the educational Breaking Point the difference between those with college education and those without college education and what you can see here is that and I would say the president that this success has really been his success to blend both economic and social issues the ability to be able to talk about economic uplift be able to talk about race and it's the same time. Be able to talk about the responsibility and the accountability and what we're talking about is whether it is drunk driving or the TV chip or school uniforms or School discipline today. The issue of respect seems to be at the core of what Americans are looking for juvenile violence and the importance of being able to deal with this if you look here the point here is when you come to the economic situation, we see the American public as looking at all of the upbeat information low high inflation low unemployment a sense of real growth a dizzying array of Statistics that are in front of us. But here's what real life is like out there 64% tell us that the economy overall is something they approve up if you have a college degree 76% tell us that they approve of the economy overall if you own Have a high school education. It's 55% If you look at their personal situation, you get a sense of what is happening in America about it for intend to tell us their only be able to pay their bills and then save some another 42% tell us they're only able to pay their bills and not save and 16% of Americans are not even able to pay all of their bills the difference between those with a college education 54% say I'm able to save as well as pay my bills among High School educated. It's only 30% and finally the ability to Achieve Personal economic and financial goals, as you can see it's not a sense of necessary. It was great optimism, but we find the American public very divided if you have a college degree 2/3 feel that they are hopeful and confident, but if you have High school education it's only 44% of 40% And if you have some college education, it's 44% And what it means is this whole sense of a booming economy a sense that everything is going well just be aware and understand that there is indeed a whole sense of uncertainty. I would tell you that the Democrats win an election where the Democrats are seen as the party of work when they are not seen as the party of work. They tend to be a loser's if we look and we ask the American public Where Do We Go From Here, what's the greatest threat to our future of the next 10 to 20 years? No, it is not economically recession. No, it is not the national debt that has been what we talked about for the last decade even the racial tensions, which the president has so admirably address is not at the top of the list the two things at the top of the list are the things that we Indeed have been talkin about the moral Decline and also crime and drugs men women all regions of this country are most concerned with the area of moral decline as much as anything else the public I believe wants to get back to basics. They want to square things away and they want to get the fundamentals, right? That's what Social Security is about. That's what the school school education is about. It's also about it's about the entertainment industry and it has to do with personal safety overall when we talked about the American character and where we are and where we stand basically as always the past always looks better than the present. But if you look there are serious of things that the American public says this is what's changed about the American character since the 1950s and more than anything else. It's what they see in their homes and what they see before them. It is a practical assessment of what's gone wrong. It's marriage and family stability indeed. It is the other element that you see and that you're involved with its the skepticism of our political leaders. And the sense that we are less involved than anything else. It's not religion. It's not the even changing immigration, but it is much more a sense of the fundamental if you go from here and we talked about what our values are and how these values of changed there is indeed there been changes in the private Realm of the American character and we endorse some of these changes of racial discrimination and gender bias is if not over at least we're moving forward in that respect. There's greater tolerance for cultures and Lifestyles that are different from There are other changes that are probably more unsettling the late sixties and early seventies. It was an era of individual indulgent parents rated self-fulfillment far above hard work having children being patriotic when it came to things that were personally important to them today. We feel our nation's moral crisis is not affected by what our president chooses to do. But rather the many private choices that each of us makes every day and the weakening effect of those choices on marriage and family the private moral crisis of one's commitment and respect for the rules of authority and four others there really four basic elements that emerge from this Americans have become more tolerant and yet we question how tolerant we are as a nation the country is very and Bissell. about judging the morality of others the whole area of entrepreneurial standards hard work and bishan and self-fulfillment remain high. And they comprise a set of characteristics that we feel is personally important and describes us as a country and four fundamental American characteristics such as religion patriotism and having children are far more important today than they were a quarter of a century ago when we were in post-vietnam and post Watergate era. There is a values come back as much as anything and if you look it is these qualities that we care about and we talked about if we go from there to talk about where we're looking for tomorrow as we accept us as we assess our character for tomorrow. We're saying that there's greater tolerance a new commitment for family a sense of a new Global World 42% as you can see talk about more tolerant. Of alternative Lifestyles and culture in the 21st century. It's a mosaic not an individual identity 28% talked about the global has some that this country is about to go through and 27% talked about the importance of marriage and children and what I would say to you and conclusion is that in our study of American character, we find a stubborn insistence on the right to privacy and beneath that sentiment is a fairly good consensus of what we call the American character the last few months have caused the media to stand up and take notice of the Americans reaction to events involving President Clinton, but the public remains where they have always been dead center on the major issues entrepreneurial-minded when it comes to hard work and ambition in the marketplace. Tolerant and understanding when it comes to lifestyle choices and uncompromising on the issues of the family. Thank you, mr. President and thank you. Holster Peter Hart delivering. This week's Frank primack Memorial lecture early lecture series sponsored by the Minnesota journalism Center at the University of Minnesota. Well following His official speech Peter Hart took some questions from the audience more closely into an investigation of the president you feel that he will survive or do you feel when it's opened up as a professional pollster and someone who reads the mood you feel that he'll be in big big trouble. I guess I would say if you could show me the Star report first and foremost. I could probably give you a better answer but without without that Insight, I think overall the public would prefer to move on and move backwards. I think that's the Congress opens up a tremendous risk as they move ahead. Obviously, it depends upon the charges and depends upon What's out there? But the mood when you talk to people is there is a clear differentiation between what they would call Private behavior and public behavior and it becomes doubly difficult when the case where that testimony was taken has been dismissed. So I think that it is a very what I call ticklish situation for the Republic a Republican side of the Congress to be into Yes, Paul wellstone announced he formed the first commit. I like official commission up for a Democratic candidate for it to become president. And he was the first candidate to do so and I was wondering if you might have a gas or a prediction of who might be the good candidate in who might win in 2011 or less away is the good news is if you've been in this business for awhile, you learn to never make that prediction and I would tell you that. The one thing that I would tell you is that it is very difficult to upset a sitting vice president. You can take good times or bad times. It is a difficult thing to knock them off in terms of a nomination. There's an awful lot that they have going for them having said that I think it depends upon the economy and it depends upon a lot of other things that will be out there, but the one Thing that I would tell you is that the Republicans tend to nominate an establishment candidate and somebody that is quote been around the track the exception to that maybe Governor George Bush from Texas who indeed if he hasn't been around the track. His father has been so there is a sense of reassurance and a sense of a recognizable name on the Democratic side Democrats tend to work outside the establishment. And if your Paul wellstone, that's the tradition you're looking for at this stage of the game. It used to be said that the only test of a poll was an election. How do you test the accuracy of what you're doing? I guess we get tested on a fairly regular basis and it certainly we get tested in terms of an election. But I know if a lot of things the test that we bring to it are the typical statistical tests, but there's one other thing there an awful lot of polls today so that when you do something that is outside the norm that's usually a pretty good test that you may have gotten something something wrong. The other thing that I would tell you is that we do an awful lot of qualitative work as well as quantitative work and those are focus groups and that gives us a greater sense of what people going through and what they're saying, but it's a combination of those two things. And in my political experience we gone from a point when there was some discussion of real issues to a point where the issues are now superficial too often. The campaigns are decided on something whether you believe in the certain abortion for instance something like that. We went through the the crisis with the thrift institutions. There was hardly any discussion of that in the political campaigns. Is there some way to bring campaigns back to where they talk about the things that really take money out of our pockets ways to correct things that are wrong in the society that really have some governmental the connotations to them. Well, I think they're insert of two elements to the two until all of this. I would tell you that if you're having complaints in Minnesota, I consider your dialogue This playing compared to the dialogue that I see in other states. So there is a huge difference in terms of what you get and where things are at. The other thing that I would tell you is yes, there is a lot of dialogue in terms of important issue. But the other side is what we cover is what I call People magazine kind of politics and that is whether it is whether it is a new dog or a new cat or some elements such as that it tends to bring more Fascination in terms of the media. Is it hard to get the serious dialogue? I have done a lot of work on this and I continue to do a lot but I think the biggest problem is until you start to deal with money and politics. It becomes very difficult to get that dialogue. I think the state of Massachusetts in the 1996 was Senate race between Governor Weld and son Carrie listen example of where you got the good dialogue and impart it was the quality of the candidates, but more importantly I think the media help to stimulate it with a series of seven debates that they had and it was a form and a serious for him so it can be done but one of the elements you have to start with his the money element and I would tell you if there's something that displeases me in terms of my work and my public life it is that I haven't been able to do anything to make any changes in terms of campaign reform the public wants it but the problem is the public has demanded it and it's the difference between wanting it and demanding at hand at this stage of the game. The public hasn't done enough and has it demanded it hard enough. You've told us a lot about what you told the president in the White House what has been the response from the president and the White House. Well, let me make a quick clarification here. And that is I have talked I've talked to all of the senior aides. I have not talked to the president with this play the survey. I think the response has been tactical rather than and maybe that's what it has to be given the legal situation and everything that's going on but there's not a sense of necessarily figuring out what the endgame is. And I think that's one of the problems the question is. How do you re-establish that trust or Bond and can you do it and at this stage of the game? I think that they live from our to our new cycle the new cycle day today without a sin. Set the far Horizon and that's been my sense of the discussions. And that's where I think things are today. Your heart was asked again by an audience member about the issues that tend to dominate political campaigns audience member said that too often issues like abortion get lots of attention while almost no attention is paid what she said or more fundamental issues such as the gap between the Haves and Have Nots in America. It's a it's an excellent question. The only thing with that I would serve disagree a little bit with your thesis is quote poor people don't vote indeed may not vote in the same numbers, but I hate to tell you what it what is amazing is the number of college-educated students and post students in the 20s and early 30s who are not voting. And so that's that's a whole element of it and you've talked about this marvelous gubernatorial race that's unfolding in the state of Soudan Minnesota turn out as marvellous at the end of this year. What you will find is somewhere in the neighborhood of five out of eight eligible Americans will not go to the polls. And your point was why do we talk about abortion? Why is that always there? Well, the answer is that is a hot-button issue that gets people into the polling and pulling play sad when you start to have such a fraction and such a small number of people willing to go to the polls and being involved at that stage you end up with Splinter politics and we spend in that. Since 1978 and a lot of fats and I would give President Clinton credit in terms of the 19 in terms of 1992 because I think that in many respects he talked to bigger issues and broader issues and I think that's an important difference but to get again the dialogue going They just participation as much as anything else. Have you done any testing or do you have a personal sense of how the issues that are play? The moral issues that are playing at in Washington will affect State races in local races. You said it was an income a year, but can you expand on that a little bit more in at 9 National level? Well, in terms of the oven on National level if you look at the Congressional races again, I think it's an incumbent year, but the state races again, I think incumbents are the beneficiary especially in the State House is but at the same time I would tell you what we have learned from State politics whether it's minnesota-wisconsin, California, which were very involved with it's a series of different state issues and how those are playing and in many cases the issues that are playing in there have to do with I would say broad moral issues. I mentioned respect I think that's Wonho, Larry. I think you'll see certain areas in terms of gun legislation, especially with the backlash to what has happened with youth violence and all of that those play out differently and it's not just straight incumbent vs. Non incumbent. One of your more intriguing chart showed up pretty unfavorable attitude toward the Press is that your judgment that the media have lost are in the process of losing the qualities. They need to inform the public to play a political leadership role of a sort in our society or is this pretty idiosyncratic to the current problems of the president? Well, I should say in the journalism Center that oh, it's idiosyncratic. But to be perfectly honest we have done some work for the Council on excellence in government and I presented this material last earlier this this year and what we found in that is that the regard for the Press has now drop below almost every institution in this country. I'm sorry to report that but indeed when you ask people how much confidence they have. In the news media, I believe that great deal of confidence is down down at 15% and and impart this is this story that has to do with Paula Jones and Monica Lewinsky and the president is an example of where the electronic media particularly ran so far ahead of the public that there was a huge backlash. There was a sense within 24 or 48 Hours how soon with this President going to be out and what was going to happen and the public really had yet to get any of the facts and they really felt as though they were being told what was going to happen and they were unaccepting and one of the things that I would say is I have a lot of criticisms and I sure Charlie does for my profession of a polling but in this one instance and I would say only this one instance The public opinion polls who are actually a marvelous gate and what it told what it told us is to the public was withholding judgment from day one we had about 33% of the public who really said I am not sure whether you are Democrat or independent or republican there was this constant group that stayed not sure in terms of whether the allegations about the president of Monica Lewinsky Lewinsky. We're true or not true. And here we are some six or eight weeks later as we measured this and there were still 25 to 30% and in that respect. I think the public was sending the media and I think the political bodies give us the facts and then we'll tell you what we think. I need to ask you a public character. We've seen several changes and Clinton Clinton over the years from old Democratic new democrat the old Democrats or something in-between. And if you look back on George Bush, I think probably the same kind of analysis could be made some of the changes that took place at him over time and it would seem that both. Obviously. The only politicians have done. This has been an awful lot of time listening to their handlers in their pollsters and their consultants and start of charting these changes don't they raise some questions about the public character of our leaders and what they really believe in and isn't there some question of who the real Bill Clinton really is. I'm sure that there is some but I do think if you look at the overall direction when you when you look at the point on strong leadership and you take that sort of three-year look the public gets a chance to read somebody and if the person does not have A sense of what he's about or where he's leaving the country that the public knows and they know pretty directly and I would tell you that the public gets a pretty good read on an individual and the fact that the public has made a differentiation between the president in terms of his personal character. And in terms of his public performance is probably an indication that more than the fact is India logically consistent. There is a sense that those characteristics of leadership they perceive is there and I'm not I'm not going to defend my profession and say that we don't have an influence in terms of elected officials and what goes on but the sense that somehow that they simply come in in the morning and say what's my pulse ter say couldn't be further from the truth. Suppose you had to a client's one a moderate Democrat in Congress won a moderate Republican in Congress and supposed star issues to report to Congress. That's the worst Bill Clinton could imagine it starts thinks he's guilty of perjury and sober Nation the perjury and your two clients ask you for political advice on what they are the do what would you tell him? I won't suppose and I won't take the bait to be perfectly honest. I'll tell you I'll tell you what, I tell tell most of my clients in terms of situations like this. You're the one that has to make the decision you you're the one that has to look at it. The fact of the matter is if you hire me, I'm going to tell you how to put together the campaign whether you take a position in in favor of it or against it. It's not that I come there and say to him. Here's the position. You must take it's quite the opposite after they take the position question is how do you put it into a campaign contacts? And what do you do with it? So I would tell you probably in both instances. I would really step aside and tell him this is his decision at this is what he's paid to do. plexaderm nationally-known. Her and clinical consultant Peter Hart delivering. This year's Frank primack Memorial lecture. The annual lecture is sponsored by the Minnesota journalism Center at the University of Minnesota. Well that does it for our mid-day program today. Now, if you miss the part of Peter Hearts presentation, we're going to be rebroadcasting his comments at 9 tonight here on Minnesota Public Radio. So a second chance to a here with mr. Hart had to say rebroadcast at 9 tonight. Looking ahead to Monday. I think if things work out as planned, we're going to hear from the governor ardy Carlson, you'll recall those of you who are those over the 11-hour at the governor's mansion that tomorrow he's planning to deliver what appears to be a major speech on the media and what he sees is the journalist role in society. He's been less than pleased with some of the things that he sees and knows media performance. And so we're going to do if everything works out the way. We hope we hope we'll be able to prevent that speech over the noon hour on Monday. And probably get some reaction to it as well. So that will come up on Monday. We hope you can join us and looking ahead to Tuesday another big Main Street radio special on Tuesday. It's part of our midday broadcast. I'll look at Native American rights and issues facing the state of Minnesota will be focusing on spearfishing and the sovereignty issue. That's coming up Tuesday. Another Main Street radio special. Sarah Meyer is the producer of our mid-day program Mike McCaul finger our associate producer and we had help this week from a cast of thousands Tim pugmire Cliff Beverly, Randy Johnson, Bob Collins and a special. Thank you to Marty bussmann with University media resources in here. Thanks for tuning and we hope you can join us on Monday.