Transcripts

text | pdf |

---

KAREN BARTA: Good morning, I'm Karen Barta with news from Minnesota Public Radio. A new trial may be held for a Minnesota man, convicted of possessing ricin, a poison banned by the government.

Douglas Baker from Sudan was convicted last year in what federal officials say was part of a plot by the so-called Patriots Council Group to poison federal agents. A federal panel ordered a new trial because of a technicality and not on a shortage of evidence.

Hennepin County Board Chairman Peter McLaughlin says, tougher law enforcement is needed to deal with people who repeatedly commit less serious crimes. There are tougher laws for serious crimes but McLaughlin says, less serious crimes also erode community safety.

PETER MCLAUGHLIN: So what we're going to be doing is using some technology to be linking our probation officers with the police so that if somebody is on probation and they commit one of these lower-level crimes, that in fact, we can work to make sure that they get their consequences for that, so if they end up being pulled back into the criminal justice system and being punished for what they do.

We don't want them just floating out there committing these small crimes day after day without some kind of-- without some kind of consequence.

KAREN BARTA: McLaughlin will outline details in a speech today at noon at South High School in Minneapolis. A new poll indicates trouble for a proposed new home for the Minnesota Twins. A survey for the Minnesota Journal of Law and Politics shows that candidates for the Minnesota legislature are overwhelmingly opposed to public funding for a new outdoor baseball stadium.

The state forecast today, mostly cloudy in the north, increasing sunshine in the south, highs from the middle 70s in the southwest to middle 50s in the northeast. For the Twin Cities, mostly sunny and warmer, high around 72. Around the region in Rochester, it's cloudy and 51. It's partly sunny in St. Cloud and 46. In the Twin Cities, it's mostly sunny and 52. That's news, I'm Karen Barta.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You're listening to Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Chris Roberts.

[SOFT MUSIC]

Joe Selvaggio left the Catholic priesthood because he disagrees with the church's views on celibacy and birth control. He has devoted his life to social action as founder and director of the Minneapolis-based Project for Pride in Living. Today on our Voices of Minnesota interview, we'll hear Selvaggio talk about his life and work. Selvaggio has turned over leadership of PPL to a new director.

At the end of the year, Joe walks out the door to become a mostly full-time fundraiser for the organization. PPL trains the hard-to-employ to enter the workforce. The organization is also a developer and manager of inner-city housing. Selvaggio lives in Minneapolis and talked recently with Minnesota Public Radio's Dan Olson about why people don't work.

JOE SELVAGGIO: They really don't seem to be job-ready. I mean, whether it's by choice or by EQ, their emotional quotient or whatever. But sometime it's sort of by choice. One gal told me, she's in the neighborhood here, she says, I used to be looking for a boyfriend with a good job. She says, and now I just look for a boyfriend with a job.

She says, too many of them are-- they like the flexible hours and better pay of the drug trade or something like that. So there's some that they lose it to the drug trade or they've been unemployed for a number of years and they're just not very job-ready. And they're-- so it could probably be 15%.

But that takes some money to give them almost like sheltered workshops, like PPL has, where they get the work ethic again and learn how to show up to work every day because normal employees-- employers can't take it if they're not going to show up every day on time and work hard and fast and produce a product in the marketplace.

DAN OLSON: EQ, emotional quotient, you are talking about people who, for one reason or another, aren't ready for work. What's happened to them that they aren't ready for work?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, I think it's just bad environment. When they were growing up, maybe they didn't see it in their parents and/or their uncles and aunts or their neighbors. And they weren't trained to work. As a kid, you got to be taught to take out the garbage and clean your room and be responsible. And maybe they saw their parents weren't very responsible. And they never got disciplined at school and at home. And so it's very hard for them to go to work eight hours a day and live with that.

DAN OLSON: Is the welfare system a big hurdle for allowing people to regain self-respect, get initiative back, get a job?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, I think what some families that are generational welfare folks, that's been a crutch that has turned into an obstacle. But that's a pretty small percentage. I hate to criticize. In some people, just blanket-all welfare is bad then, and we've got to get rid of it.

I am more of the mind that you should give-- you should try and make everybody work if they had all are able to work, but then give them support in the terms of food stamps and daycare and medical assistance and other non-income-producing things that-- so that people do learn that money should come from work. I think it's very important that everybody learn that lesson.

But I'm not for just abolishing all subsidies because that'll just make things worse. There'll be more illiteracy, more violence, more hatred because I see a lot of the poor people that I work with really struggling and single parents, and they have a bunch of kids and not enough money. And it's just going to turn them into more violence or turn more to drugs to try and escape this miserable thing.

DAN OLSON: What's your take on the point that Minnesota is the magnet for people who see the state's compassion, who see the state's generous subsidies, benefits of one kind or another compared to some other states, and come here, bring their problems with them, and as a result, their problems become our problems?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, the area has been a magnet, but I don't think it's been a magnet because of the welfare system. Every study I've seen has shown that that is not true, and there's a-- that the benefits really aren't that much greater, and that's not drawing people in. It draws just as many good people that really want to get ahead. There's bad people.

I would argue more that some of the big sports things bring the troublemakers. They bring the drug folks and the violent folks. They follow the big sports teams and wear their colors and their gangs and things like that. And those are the ones that have to be watched and dealt with very severely. If they're going to cause trouble, you've got to grab them fast and lock them up. But it's not the welfare system, I don't think, that's drawing people here.

DAN OLSON: In your opinion, as you have watched the money that is being spent on various kinds of services, is there a payoff? Do you see in the people you work with, improvement?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, obviously, not enough. And here's where I part with 90% of my Liberal friends, I still consider myself a Liberal. But I'm actually for the vouchers, all kinds of vouchers, not just education, but in anything because I think the private market makes people accountable very naturally.

Like if you go to a restaurant, if you don't get good service and good food, you just don't go back there. You don't have to yell at anybody to be accountable or anything. That just cleans itself up. The restaurant will go out of business, or the waitress will get fired. But in the school system, you just-- it's a big thing, and you have to keep hounding teachers to be productive and be accountable.

And there's no natural incentive that teachers don't get more pay if they're a better teacher. And so I-- and I think the Catholic schools and the private schools should be forced to share some of these burdens. And they'll be forced naturally by-- if you give them money and a voucher, they'll take some of these troubled cases. And they'll have to deal with them. They'll have something to bring to the table and share the burden.

Right now, the public is taking all the burden. And it's got a very too remote a system of benefits and rewards, whereas in Catholic schools or private schools can just suspend kids more. And they make them produce, and it's much more of a pay-as-you-go private marketplace system. And I'm usually for the free marketplace whenever possible, even though I am a Liberal.

DAN OLSON: You live in the inner city, or what we call the inner city. To a lot of us, it looks like a standard residential Minneapolis neighborhood, and I guess the media have tagged this now, the inner city. What's life like-- here, you have written in opinion pieces about coming home and seeing police lights flashing and drive-by shootings. Is that really the hallmark of life here? It looks pretty comfortable to me.

JOE SELVAGGIO: Yeah, and it's been comfortable for the last 20 years, pretty much, that I've lived here. But the last nine months have been pretty tough here on this block. And it varies from block to block. It just happened that recently, we've got some drug houses on our block. And the police department tells me in the third precinct, there are 100 crack houses that they know of right in the third precinct.

And actually, there have been like 300 known places where street corners and stuff where they've sold crack and in just in the third precinct. So it varies from block to block. I've lived here pretty much in peace for all these years, and it's been a good deal. I got a lot of good house for the money. And it hasn't been-- I raised a bunch of kids and foster kids for my own and a number of foster kids, and they all felt safe.

About nine months ago, at one point, there were three crack houses right on this block. I think it's down to one or two now. We certainly got rid of one. But it does happen, and you just have to get the police to cooperate with you and the block club active. And people are afraid because some of them are gang members.

And 90% of the crime is gang member on gang member or drug dealer on customer or the competing drug dealer. So I feel pretty darn safe. But to be honest, it's tested some of the others. I sort of see it as a mission and a challenge. And it doesn't bother me, and I feel safe. But my wife and my three neighbors that I'm closest to have frankly talked about moving.

So there is a limit to people's patience with this stuff. So I think we've got to keep the pressure on the police to clean it up.

DAN OLSON: What are the strategies? What do you think are the approaches that work in city neighborhoods where this is a daily issue?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, I think we certainly have a strong role. It's true, the police can't do it alone, and we do have to be their eyes and ears. But we can't do the police work. Let's face it. These folks have guns and it's not smart to just go up and confront a drug dealer, especially if you think they're a member of the gang, and they do have guns.

So, I think a lot of dialogue, a lot of common sense is involved. We talked to a police officer recently and even the chief of police, and they said they were increasing their buy-and-bust crack team from four to 18 officers in the third precinct, which is really good news because you can't just do it with uniform police, too, because they come and the drug dealers scatter.

So you need a lot of undercover cops to do it. You need people to cooperate and tell the police what's happening. But you need the police to do certain things. One police-- there's certain strange attitudes out there. One police officer told me, well, this administration is too sensitive toward the criticisms of harassing the people if you go out and are too aggressive.

And I said, baloney. We'll support you. You can't-- if there's 10, 20 guys hanging out in front of somebody's house and they're trashing the place, which they do on a regular basis, they don't have a right to do that. And we'll back you 100% against any criticism.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Joe Selvaggio talking with Dan Olson. You're listening to our Voices of Minnesota interview on Midmorning. Programming on Minnesota Public Radio is supported by 3M, who generously matched more than 900 employee contributions to Minnesota Public Radio. Today's programming is sponsored in part by members who have their contributions to Minnesota Public Radio matched by their employer. Thank you for your membership support of Minnesota Public Radio.

Joe Selvaggio is a native of Chicago. He says he grew up in a traditional Italian-American home. Selvaggio was a Dominican priest for three years. He was increasingly caught up in social causes and then found himself at odds with the church's views.

JOE SELVAGGIO: I wasn't always agreeing on birth control. And Cardinal Spellman was blessing the ships to go to Vietnam, and I was against the Vietnam thing. So I wanted to be with a real church. I remember a lot of people told Martin Luther King when the bishop from Selma told the Catholics to go back up north and not support him, the Catholics were saying, well, he's our bishop, and he's our leader in this.

And that's the way I felt. I wanted to be with the good, holy men that were-- and women that were changing the world in a very Christian, religious way, but not necessarily the hierarchical Bishop's way.

DAN OLSON: Where did it take you? You apparently then were in marches. You apparently were on the lines. And what kind of social action did you get involved in?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Oh, a number of things. I remember picketing when Hubert Humphrey-- I was still a priest. It was probably my first picket line when Hubert Humphrey came to see a play at the Guthrie. I was out there in my collar and that radicalized me. I remember when I first left and had a baby, our newborn baby was on the steps of the Capitol.

It was during the Cambodian bombing, and he was just about two months old, and it was a very cold December day. And he was out there as the youngest protester. And we went to Washington and protested. And my wife and I got arrested, and even the baby was even in jail with us, with my wife.

So there were a number of things like that. I helped Cesar Chavez. I was an organizer for the grape boycott for six months here because he kind of came from a religious tradition, too. And Bobby Kennedy was supporting him, and it was a bigger struggle than just a union kind of thing. It was a social justice thing.

And then I started-- I got 100 friends of mine that just support me for three years, sending me a check, $5 or $10 bucks in the mail. So I could go out and work as their extension. An extension of themselves in the areas of race, and peace, and poverty.

So I did some fun things during those three years. One of the things I got started was advocate services, which then turned into PPL Industries and one of the things I got going to as a PPL, Project for Pride in Living, where I now work. But I gave a talk at church and got a lot of people involved. I was co-chair of clergy and laity concerned against the war. So anything on race and peace and poverty, I was very much involved in.

DAN OLSON: Did you leave the church? Did you leave the priesthood, rather, voluntarily or did the bosses come to you-- the supervisor, and say, Joe, you're a problem, you're a troublemaker, you're not cut out for this line of work?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Celibacy came as a problem, too, then, because I saw a lot of good, dedicated people being not celibate. And so I did meet this woman and when I called the provincial dimension that I was thinking of leaving, and I was-- there was a woman involved. He suspended me right away, right on the phone, so I was out the next day.

They were very, very nervous about that, so I was out. But it was probably the best thing. I was ready to go because I was more involved in this community of activism than my church community, even though I was still very much in the church.

But then-- but I did get a legal dispensation and went through the ropes, I believe. That you should only break as few rules as possible, you know. And so I still consider myself Catholic, even though I don't believe in birth control and a lot of the things the Catholic Church believe in.

DAN OLSON: The decision to have a relationship that the church wouldn't countenance, a relationship with a woman, that must have been a very difficult time of life for you.

JOE SELVAGGIO: Yes, it was very, very difficult. You're in a troubled state. But I somehow got tremendous support from the people in the movement.

First of all, I was kind of giving up my church and my family and my country. When you protest against the war, you feel like you're not a true American. And you're like, came from a very conservative family, and they didn't approve of me leaving the priesthood.

And the church was certainly very much at all Catholic education through college and then 11 years in the Dominican order. So I was very much-- when you leave those basic things, you better have something very strong to replace it.

But I was very much in the movement of like-- I say, the Grape Boycott and the Civil Rights movement and the peace movement. And there's just wonderful people in those movements, very loving, caring, strong people that are very best characters. And I felt if they accepted me, I must not be all bad. [CHUCKLES]

CHRIS ROBERTS: The obvious question is, is the Catholic Church making a big mistake by insisting that the vow of celibacy may maintain for men who want to be priests.

JOE SELVAGGIO: Yeah, I think it's making a huge mistake there. It's also making a huge mistake on birth control, even the choice thing, it's kind of like-- I'd be more like dolls as well-- dolls as well, there's room in the Republican Party for people that aren't absolutely pro-life. And I think you have to say that there's absolutely good people in this world that even Catholics that are pro-choice.

And I think the Catholic church has to be big enough, otherwise, it's going to shrink to a very small denomination. And that's always been something the Catholic church says we are not. We are Catholic means universal, the whole world, and it's got to have some diversity of opinions there.

DAN OLSON: What are your kids you've raised think of you? They see your history as a guy involved in social action. What do they think of that?

JOE SELVAGGIO: They all-- they all like it. They're happy with it. They're comfortable with it. I mean, every once in a while they'll kid me, they'll say, what are you doing still living in that neighborhood there? It's unsafe or something like that, but they admire it. They're pretty much following in my footsteps, I mean, not as dramatically, making it a life work or-- but they're happy with it. I don't have any big philosophical differences with any of them.

DAN OLSON: You're a man of the secular world when you-- as you put it, when you hobnob with the rich and powerful, and that's, I think, a pretty good share of your business these days, raising money. I think, unless I'm mistaken, you have to press the flesh with some folks who have some pretty thick checkbooks, deep checkbooks.

What kind of reaction do you get from them about your work? Do they say, you know, Joe, I'll give you some money, it's the socially correct thing to do, but frankly, I don't think what you're doing is having much effect. What kind of reaction do you get from them?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Well, they're mixed. Also, some give me money because they think it's the right thing to do, and they don't really agree with my politics. They say, well, no matter what you believe, you're still doing good work so I'll give you money. And we got about 15 wealthy families that give us $100,000 each at our last capital campaign. So they're giving some sizable gifts.

I mean, it's nothing compared to what they give to the big arts groups where they give millions of dollars, but they're still giving to good causes, and they give to United Way. And they're very committed in the university-- they tend to give more to their alma maters, their universities, or their-- things that they are more comfortable with, more traditional places, their hospitals and stuff. And so they see us as a little bit of a risky, Maverick kind of thing.

But I think they're good. And some of them really believe it just as strong as I do. Some of them say the answer is teaching people how to work, getting them to buy a home, and make that mortgage payment, getting them to know that we'll give them a hand up but not a hand out, that it's important that they put themselves into it. And there's not enough money in the world to pull them out of poverty if their attitude isn't right, and you're doing it right. And so I want to give you money.

So it's true. I do spend a lot of my time. And next year, I'm going to spend all of my time pretty much just being a bridge from the rich to the poor and getting more dollars from the rich into these poor causes.

DAN OLSON: A lot of attention being paid to what some people call the concentration of wealth at this point in our history in this country.

JOE SELVAGGIO: But let me comment on that. One of the wealthy people actually fed me a line that then I wrote an editorial about, about all the money going up the ladder, not just down. And that the Wall Street Journal always just looks at the money that comes down the ladder, down the subsidies. But there's an awful lot of government policy that makes it go up and enables rich people to get very rich.

And there's rich people that understand that. They welcome me. I was even given, along with seven other people that work in the poverty area, a three-year membership to the Minneapolis Club. And that's a very expensive deal. That's a lot of money that cost to enter that and a monthly fee that I don't have to pay because I'm working in this area.

DAN OLSON: A private club. Not everyone can gain membership to that. You have to be invited. So there you are, hobnobbing with the rich and powerful, and is that the kind of entry visa? Is that the kind of passport you need to do the work that needs to be done?

JOE SELVAGGIO: Absolutely, and I criticize my nonprofit peers that don't like that aspect of the job. They think it's kissing up to the rich. And they don't-- it's uncomfortable for them to do that. But I think that's a real cop out. They've got to do it. That's where the money is, where the power is. We've got to bridge the gap. That's what made America great.

There's accessibility to the wealthy here. They like a strong middle class. If you contrast it to my wife's country, she's amazed that there is such access to the wealthy. In the Philippines, that's impossible. They wall themselves off and there is no access. So I compliment the rich people in Minneapolis or even the world, by and large.

And the Kennedy family, they say all their kids are running nonprofit corporations, and the Rockefellers have had a big tradition of philanthropy. So it's in a lot of American families, this tradition of giving. And it should be, and it should be encouraged. And nonprofits should go after it.

CHRIS ROBERTS: That's Joe Selvaggio, the founder of Project for Pride in Living, talking with Dan Olson. Our Voices of Minnesota interview series is heard nearly every Monday as part of Midmorning.

[SOFT MUSIC]

Minnesota Public Radio operates in association with the following institutions, St. John's Abbey and University Collegeville, Concordia College Moorhead, Luther College, Decorah, the College of St. Scholastica Duluth, Michigan Technological University, Houghton, Gustavus Adolphus College, St. Peter, the College of St. Benedict, St. Joseph, and Bethany Lutheran College of Mankato.

29 minutes now before 11 o'clock. You're listening to Midmorning on Minnesota Public Radio. I'm Chris Roberts in for Paula Schroeder. President Clinton has called for a summit to further the Middle East peace process. It's to happen Tuesday and Wednesday of this week. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu is now on his way to Washington. Palestinian President Yasser Arafat is also now planning to attend the summit.

Two years ago, many Jews and Palestinians were optimistic about the prospect of a lasting peace, yet the peace process has stalled violently. Since last Tuesday, 55 Palestinians and 17 Israelis have died in conflict sparked by archaeological excavations and road building close to Muslim holy sites. Now, more than ever, there's a need for peacemaking on a policy level, certainly, but also on an individual level.

[ISRAELI MUSIC]

There has always been music that's accompanied times of strife and stress, elegies to fallen leaders, political protest, music and songs for celebration. Different cultures can make wonderful music together and promote peace along the way. Joining me in the studio is Israeli musician and composer Yair Dalal.

He's a master of a variety of styles and instruments, both Eastern and Western, modern and traditional. Yair Dalal composed music performed at the Nobel Peace Prize gala concert honoring Yasser Arafat, Yitzhak Rabin, and Shimon Peres back in 1994. Palestinians, Israelis and Norwegians participated in performing his work, dedicated to peace.

We'll sample some of his music in the next half hour and maybe imagine we're in the desert, where Dalal lives much of the year. Also with us is Saed Sweiti, a Palestinian musician who plays with Yair. And I'd like to welcome you both to Midmorning today.

YAIR DALAL: Thank you. Good morning.

CHRIS ROBERTS: I guess, Yair and Saed, I'd like to hear your impressions of what's going on in the West Bank and Gaza Strip right now. What's your analysis of what's happening?

YAIR DALAL: It's a bit-- the situation is bad. And we came here to sing for peace. We're doing our best.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Saed, is it a situation right now in Israel where this is a blip on the screen, it's kind of a temporary interruption, violent interruption in the peace process, which will continue, or are you more worried about it at this point?

SAED SWEITI: I think it will not continue. I hope so. But I'm afraid a little bit.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What makes you afraid?

SAED SWEITI: Politics. I never understand politics. I understand music very well.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Yair, how do you see what's happening in Israel right now with the violence?

YAIR DALAL: I take it very hard, very seriously. Just, it's like a bullet in my heart sometimes. And I hope the peace process will continue because not only that the peace process between the nation, Saed and me are very close friend. And we will not continue see each other if they will not be peace, you know? It's crazy.

Can you imagine you cannot see your friend because such a situation? And I have a lot of friends in the West Bank.

CHRIS ROBERTS: I'm wondering how your friendships with Palestinians will be disrupted. Can't they overcome what's going on?

YAIR DALAL: They can, but there's some laws and some bureaucratic way to cross. You see, if he cannot cross the way to Jerusalem because there will be a checkpoint there, so how can I go and see him? In Chicago maybe.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you think it's a failure in leadership that led to this violence?

YAIR DALAL: I think, yes.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How so?

YAIR DALAL: Everybody knows about the-- it's not a secret that the politics in Israel change three months ago after the election. So a new government, a new attitude to the peace process, different approach to what have been achieved before. So I think this is one of the reasons.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How long have you been playing with Palestinian musicians?

YAIR DALAL: I know Palestinian musician about eight years.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Mm-hmm.

YAIR DALAL: Something like this.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What made you want to start a project like this?

YAIR DALAL: I didn't know if I decided to start it. It have been started by itself. You see, when you meet people and you start to play, then you like each other, and you like the music, and you continue to play. And the project, it just started by itself.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Mm-hmm. But there must have been somebody organizing it along the way. And am I looking at that person right now, you?

YAIR DALAL: Yes, but there is another project that have been organized by Norwegian Sigbjorn Nedland, who is a radioman from Norway. That he actually took us together and said, you're going to make a record together.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What did you think of that idea?

YAIR DALAL: It was beautiful.

SAED SWEITI: Great.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Why was it great, Saed?

SAED SWEITI: Because it's the first time we play with the Israelian musician. And I like them very much. We are very close. And it's for peace. Everybody like peace.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What drew you, Saed, to Yair's music?

SAED SWEITI: I think it's marvelous. I love it.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What are the things that you love about it?

SAED SWEITI: I love the authentic. It's very sensitive, very simple. Everybody can understand it. It's from the desert, from traditional. I like it a lot.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Yair, how would you describe this music to people who may have not heard it before?

YAIR DALAL: It's maybe under the title, world music. But Middle East and world music, let's say, it's a combination between Judeo-Arab music, yes, that we call, and classical and folk Arabic music with some Jewish klezmer in it, with some Indian music in it, you see And of course, Saed's voice, which I think very, very special.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What are some of the similarities between, let's say, Palestinian and Israeli musical traditions? And what are the differences?

SAED SWEITI: There are some similarities. I myself came from a family that raised on Arabic music because my parents came from Iraq to Israel. So I know about classical Arabic music and folk Arabic music. It was my music when I was a little child and still. So for me, it's natural, the connection between this kind of music.

And the Israeli music has a lot of rock and roll influence these days.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Does it, really?

SAED SWEITI: Yeah, from America. And you can combine those music sometimes, well, when you really know what you are doing.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Is there a shared instrumentation?

YAIR DALAL: Yeah, the oud. For me, the oud is the king of the instrument, and the violin.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How do you pronounce that?

SAED SWEITI: Oud.

YAIR DALAL: O-U-D.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Oud. Because for some reason, I was pronouncing it aoud.

YAIR DALAL: Aoud, yes, it's OK.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What kind of an instrument is that?

YAIR DALAL: It's--

SAED SWEITI: Arabic guitar.

YAIR DALAL: It's like Arabic guitar, yes. It's like a lute.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Oh, so it's shaped-- the body is shaped a little bit differently than a classic--

YAIR DALAL: Yes, yes, yes.

CHRIS ROBERTS: --acoustic guitar.

YAIR DALAL: It has this large belly. And it doesn't have frets. It's fretless, so we can play the quarter notes that we have in Arabic music. You don't play chord on it. You play the melody and the rhythm.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Well, let's listen to a little of this music right now. This is the music of Al Ol and Yair Dalal.

[ARABIC MUSIC]

Music from the disc, Al Ol, and the group is called Al Ol as well, as I understand it. And that's Yair Dalal. Tell us about that piece. Did you write that?

YAIR DALAL: Al Ol? Yes. If you put it from the beginning, you will hear a side voice on it. Yes, I wrote it eight years ago, something like this, when I was sitting outside my room in the desert, outside my little house.

CHRIS ROBERTS: It's very peaceful.

YAIR DALAL: It's very peaceful. And I saw this Al Ol. Do you know what is Al Ol?

CHRIS ROBERTS: Mm-mm.

YAIR DALAL: It's like a small tornado. It's a desert wind. It's like a small tornado that spin around itself. And so there is a legend about it. The Bedouins, the people of the desert, they used to say that in every each of that, there is a jinn that have been punished for the bad thing that he's done in his life. So he spin around itself for eternity.

CHRIS ROBERTS: That's kind of sad.

YAIR DALAL: It's not sad. It's just a legend.

CHRIS ROBERTS: It's just a legend. [LAUGHS] Was it difficult for you to find other Israeli and Palestinian musicians to work on this project?

YAIR DALAL: This one?

CHRIS ROBERTS: Yeah.

YAIR DALAL: No. I had this Al Ol ensemble group. And I ask from Saed to come, and he said, immediately, yes. And he brought his brother with him, Saif, which is a beautiful musician and beautiful person.

CHRIS ROBERTS: I guess our impression in this country and probably elsewhere, and we can probably think news reports for that, is that Palestinian and-- Palestinians and Iraeli-- Israelis, rather, can barely stand to be in the same room with each other. Is that an overstatement, Saed? Do you have proof that it is?

SAED SWEITI: Yeah, I have proof. We, even though tell each other secrets, we eat with Yair in his house, in my house. We are like small family. We are very close.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you think your group, though, is an exception to the rule?

SAED SWEITI: Yes. Yeah, I think so.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How about you, Yair?

YAIR DALAL: Saed was in my wedding. He was the leading singer in my wedding. So can you imagine a Palestinian singer in a Jewish wedding? So you know how much we--

SAED SWEITI: Close.

YAIR DALAL: --we're close to each other. So maybe we are not like-- you see, it's something exception. But I know there are many people that want to do this. Maybe we are one of the exception that succeed. But I know that many musicians want to get together in the Middle East and are just waiting for this to come.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Why do you know that to be true?

YAIR DALAL: Because I speak with people. I had phone calls from Palestinians and Israeli musician. And they ask me, tell us how can we make a project like you made.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you think you're going to start a movement, then, of musicians crossing over?

YAIR DALAL: It's already have been started, this movement.

CHRIS ROBERTS: How does this movement contribute to the peace process?

YAIR DALAL: For my opinion, signing a document of peace, it's not enough. You see, you have to study and to teach the other culture. Then you can live really together. Then you can exchange mind. You can sit together, and you have something to speak of. Like Saed and me, we sometimes-- all the time, almost, we sing together Arabic song or Iraqi songs, which I have in my roots and he has in his roots.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Do you think people listening to your music can get a message of coexistence out of it?

YAIR DALAL: I hope so. I hope so. We do it because we like it. This is the first thing that we do. We don't think about message, really, when we do it. We do it because we like it. The message is coming afterwards.

CHRIS ROBERTS: But if the Palestinian-Israeli conflict that's centuries old didn't exist, do you think you'd be playing together?

YAIR DALAL: Yes. I don't see any problem to continue to play together. And if we not succeed, I hope it will never come. To do it in our homeland, we will find a way to do it.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Well, I'm just wondering if music is actually that powerful. I think it moves people individually. But can it move enemies to join together and to learn about each other?

YAIR DALAL: If you speak about the whole nation, then it's not. You see, music or art didn't solve really a conflict. There's no-- when you shoot, you shoot. If somebody will hear a peace song while he was shooting, I don't think he will stop. I wish he will stop, but I don't think.

But you see, people are people And if you get closer individually, then for a long terms of time, you change something, the point of view of life. It will take time, but I think art and music and theaters and all these kind of things, at least they have something to do in humans' heart.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You were talking about how popular popular music is in Israel. How many people listen to more traditional styles that you incorporate?

YAIR DALAL: Like this?

CHRIS ROBERTS: Yeah.

YAIR DALAL: Not so many. But now, it is growing up all the time.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What do you think is the key to its growth?

YAIR DALAL: Because people are looking now for different sound.

CHRIS ROBERTS: They're getting bored with what they hear on the radio?

YAIR DALAL: They have enough-- they have enough with pop music and dance music. And all the singers in Israel that sometimes they imitate the pop stars in the United States, all over the world. They are looking for something different for maybe for cross-cultures. Take Peter Gabriel for example. He started a big movement of world music.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Mm-hmm. Let's listen to some more music from the CD, Al Ol. This is a group put together by Israeli musician Yair Dalal.

[ARABIC MUSIC]

Yair, what's the name of that piece? Did you hear it?

YAIR DALAL: Yes, Najemat el Shemal. It's the stars of the north.

CHRIS ROBERTS: When did you write that one?

YAIR DALAL: I don't remember. It was something like six or seven years ago.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Did you write it after you had started working with other kinds of musicians, specifically Palestinian musicians? Were you inspired by that when you wrote it?

YAIR DALAL: No, I don't think so. I was inspired by-- I don't know. I was inspired by myself, I think. I think it's the first song that I wrote on the oud.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Tell me about your tour, where you're playing and where you hope to play in the future.

YAIR DALAL: We will play tomorrow in this--

CHRIS ROBERTS: In the Twin Cities?

YAIR DALAL: Yes, in the Twin Cities.

CHRIS ROBERTS: At O'Shaughnessy Auditorium.

YAIR DALAL: Yes, which I, by the way, very glad and proud to be here, at least, because this is the place I heard of. This is-- Minnesota is the state of Bob Dylan, yes?

CHRIS ROBERTS: Yeah, it sure is.

YAIR DALAL: So, this is, for me, really something, you know, to be in the state of Bob Dylan, and--

CHRIS ROBERTS: Where else are you going to go?

YAIR DALAL: We're going to go to Detroit. We're going to go to Chicago again. We will be in Milwaukee in the 7th again. And we will be in Washington, D.C. And we will be in Ann Arbor.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Ann Arbor, Michigan?

YAIR DALAL: Yes.

CHRIS ROBERTS: What about back in the Middle East, are you going to play in spots there?

YAIR DALAL: We don't know yet. We hope to make this concert in the Middle East, too. But it's a little bit tough.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Well, thank you very much for joining us. Really appreciate it.

YAIR DALAL: Thank you.

SAED SWEITI: Thank you.

CHRIS ROBERTS: Saed Sweiti and Yair Dalal, members of the group Al Ol. They'll be playing at O'Shaughnessy Auditorium tomorrow evening. That's on the College of St. Catherine campus in St. Paul. It's a free concert. For tickets, call 698-0751.

[ARABIC MUSIC]

GARY EICHTEN: The Minnesota Senate race is drawing national attention. And on Midday, you'll have a chance to hear from the candidates who are getting all that attention. Hi, this is Gary Eichten, inviting you to join us for a campaign doubleheader. We'll lead off with a face-to-face debate between Senate candidates, Paul Wellstone and Rudy Boschwitz.

Part two will feature a debate between the Republican and Democratic leaders in the Congress. And Bob Meek and Tom Hoerner will be here with their analysis as well. Midday begins weekdays at 11:00 on Minnesota Public Radio, KNOW FM 91.1 in the Twin Cities.

CHRIS ROBERTS: In the 11 o'clock hour of Midday, Gary Eichten will be talking to Senate Majority Leader Roger Moe about a recent survey of legislative candidates on public money for a ballpark. And Gary will also be talking to Glenn Dorfman of the Minnesota Association of Realtors about today's national report showing new home sales at a 10-year high. That's coming up on midday.

We'll wind up Midmorning with Garrison Keillor and the Writer's Almanac.

[LIGHT MUSIC]

GARRISON KEILLOR: And here is the Writer's Almanac for Monday. It's the 30th of September, 1996. It's the first day of the Cornish festival in Mineral Point, Wisconsin, celebrating the miners who came over from Cornwall to southwestern Wisconsin in the last century. It's the feast day of St. Jerome, the patron saint of scholars and librarians who translated the Bible into Latin in the Vulgate.

It was on this day in 1955 actor James Dean was killed in the crash of his Porsche at the age of 24. It's the birthday of writer Elie Wiesel, born in Transylvania in 1928. He was shipped with his family to Nazi concentration camps in 1944, where his parents and his youngest sister died. He published his first account of the holocaust, a term that he coined in 1960, a book entitled, Night, received the Nobel Peace Prize in 1986.

It was on this day in 1927, Babe Ruth knocked his 60th home run of the season off the Washington Senators, It was a record and remained a record for years. It's the birthday in New Orleans in 1924 of Truman Streckfus Persons, who later took the name of his stepfather to become Truman Capote. At the age of 24, he published his first novel, Other Voices, Other Rooms, also author of Breakfast at Tiffany's and In Cold Blood.

It's the birthday of composer and pianist and entertainer Donald Swann in Wales, 1923. He was a partner with Michael Flanders, Flanders and Swann, who wrote the revue, At the Drop of a Hat. It's the birthday in Germany, 1883, of Hans Geiger, who built the first successful detector for individual alpha particles that became known as the Geiger counter.

It's the birthday of William Wrigley Jr., in Philadelphia, 1861. He was a traveling soap salesman. Then he sold baking powder, he offered chewing gum as a premium. And when he found that chewing gum was more popular than baking powder, he dropped the main line and decided to just sell chewing gum. Wrigley's Spearmint was introduced by him in 1893.

It was on this day in Vienna in 1791, Mozart's The Magic Flute was first performed. And the first annual fair in the United States was declared today in 1641, before it was the United States, setting aside a day for buying and selling at A Cattle Fair and A Hog Fair at New Netherlands, what is now New York and New Jersey.

Here's a poem for today by Stephen Spender entitled Autumn Day.

After Rilke.

Lord, it is time. The summer was so great.

Lay down long shadows on the sundials.

Let loose the winds to run across the plain.

Command the lingering fruits to ripen,

Grant them two southerly days yet

Then drive them to fulfillment and compel

The final sweetness in the heavy wine.

Who has no house, will build himself none now;

Who is alone now, will stay so

Wake, read, write long letters,

Go back and forth along bare avenues,

Restlessly wondering, where the fallen leaves blow.

A poem entitled, Autumn Day by Stephen Spender from his collected poems, 1928 to 1985, published by Random House, used by permission here on the Writer's Almanac for Monday, September 30th, made possible by Cole's History Group, publishers of Historic Traveler, and other magazines. Be well, do good work, and keep in touch.

CHRIS ROBERTS: That's Midmorning for this Monday, September 30th. Thank you very much for listening and for your calls and questions as well. Tune in tomorrow on Midmorning. Our focus will be welfare reform in Wisconsin, which for years has been on the cutting edge of overhauling the welfare system. That's our focus tomorrow. Join us then. Stay tuned for Midday, which is coming up next with Gary Eichten.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

JON GORDON: Microsoft and the feds, I'm Jon Gordon. And on the next Future Tense, a look at the Justice Department's latest antitrust questions about Microsoft. Future tense on Minnesota Public Radio, KNOW FM 91.1.

CHRIS ROBERTS: You're listening to Minnesota Public Radio. Light rain and 54 degrees at KNOW FM 91.1 Minneapolis, St. Paul. Twin Cities weather this afternoon becoming mostly sunny, highs in the upper 60s to low 70s. Tonight, fair skies expected, lows down into the lower 50s.

GARY EICHTEN: Good morning, It's 11 o'clock, and this is Midday on Minnesota Public Radio with Monitor Radio's David Brown, I'm Gary Eichten. In the news this morning, US officials say plans are moving ahead for tomorrow's emergency summit meeting in Washington to try to stop the violence in the Middle East. This, despite concerns expressed by Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak.

Arafat and Mubarak say they want Israel to agree to concessions before talks actually begin. 73 people died in the Israeli-Palestinian fighting last week. The US Senate is scheduled to vote today on a bill which would keep the federal government operating through the next fiscal year. The House has already passed that bill. The president says he will sign it.

And ValuJet airlines is scheduled to resume flying today. The Flight Attendants Union has been trying to keep ValuJet grounded, citing the airline's safety record. Those are some of the stories in the news today. Over the noon hour, a face-to-face debate between Paul Wellstone and Rudy Boschwitz, and a debate between the Republican and Democratic Congressional leaders.