To Warrant further consideration Min. Cydia. Lori says the additional roadway was initially proposed decades ago and has significant community supports the cities were not very enthused about it. And we have seen quite a few resolutions and all those corridors where the communities indicated they were not supporting all those proposal. Lori says officials expect to finalize a development agreement and presented at a public meeting by early fall day forecast for the rest of today partly cloudy in the north and mostly cloudy in the South cool with highs from the middle forties to around fifty tonight quite cool. Statewide Clair de partly cloudy in the north and mostly cloudy in the South Lois from the middle twenties to the middle thirties and for the Twin Cities, mostly cloudy and cool with a high near 50. It's cloudy around the region the sour in Duluth. The current temperature is 33° Rochester reporting 46. It's 41 in St. Cloud and 45.I'm in the Twin Cities. That's news from Minnesota Public Radio on Karen Barta. 6 minutes past 12 noon, you're listening to mid-day on Minnesota Public Radio Impala Schroeder sitting in today for Gary eichten today a conversation with Minnesota Public Radio President Bill Clinton board member Steve Rothchild about a topic of concern to all NPR listeners. So we are welcoming our music station listeners 2. Midday today a copyright story in the Saint Paul Pioneer Press yesterday reported the Minnesota attorney general's office is conducting an investigation of executive compensation and other financial matters at Minnesota Public Radio and its Affiliated for-profit companies. NPR is believed to be unique among nonprofit organization in that it receives royalties charitable donations and dividend payments from for-profit companies. This has raised questions on the part of many people across the industry over the past several years, and now from a state legislator as well and the Attorney General's office has been asked to look in To these relationships Bill Kling. I want a retro welcome you I don't think you need a lot of introduction to our listeners Steve Rothchild. I don't believe that you have been on the air in this capacity before you are a member of the board and also president of Twin Cities rise, which is a nonprofit organization itself to develop work skills for unemployed and underemployed adult also their former Executive Vice President at General Mills. So Steve Rothchild has some business experience as well. I want to first off I open up the phone lines and tell listeners that you can call in with your questions on this topic to 2276 thousand in the Twin Cities, or you can reach us toll-free at one eight hundred to +422-828-227-6004. 1 800-242-2828. Bill certainly are this attorney general's investigation is of concern to you and to the board of directors of Minnesota Public Radio, but also to the listeners and members of this radio station. This is a serious matter very serious matter in terms of our listeners Paul. I think they they ought to be very concerned about how these things go as our weed. But what I'm concerned about is not the investigation by the the way in which it's being portrayed by some of the media. This is something that started with a very simple issue and which a state legislator complained directly to the Press not to us, but directly to the press and then to the Attorney General's office about a simple use of of Minnesota Public Radio staff on a voluntary basis to help with the for-profit Overload at the catalog company of the for-profit catalog company Christmas. And we went to the attorney general. We Minnesota Public Radio went and said if you have any concern about that, we would like to have you look into it because we don't want to have any charge or claim regardless of how opportunistic that that that charge might have been why you go to the media with it rather than coming to us. It's a question. About to make a charge like that and then have it registered at the Attorney. General's office is something you want to clear up. So we went to them in December and said as quickly as you can do this, we would like you to clear this issue up because it's been checked by all of our attorneys and there is absolutely appropriate process. Follow. There's no issue here at all. We also said and if you have any other questions. Deal with them at the same time. We had a 1994 at an audit by the IRS of the relationship between the for-profit and non-profit companies and again, encourage them to look at it thoroughly because this is a is a new breed. This is a new kind of an animal where you have a a non-profit company that that is trying hard to develop new sources of revenue knowing the government sources are going to decline and is developed some for-profit companies to do that. The IRS went through looked at everything and in February of 1994 came and said you have a clean bill of health for you if we looked at how the shop rates and there's no problem. We expect the same thing will happen with the Attorney General's office. What's important is is the initiative that we've taken in saying, please look at these things and what concerns me and it concerns me greatly is the is the perception that somehow there is an investor. Mission of some kind of wrongdoing Out Among certain media for whatever reason they choose to sensationalize this the story mission that has been surrounding Minnesota Public Radio for several years. It wasn't just a representative. Matt intends is criticism that led to this investigation. Now there have been a lot of questions raised about Minnesota Public Radio the fact that it's the largest public radio network in the country. It's very financially successful and I think that even people within the public radio industry of said, how on Earth did it get to be that way without some kind of finagling or maybe some kind of shady dealings or something. It's it's that a that wonderful quote, isn't it that no good deed for long goes unpunished. The success of Minnesota Public Radio is due to the fact that we have some very talented people and you know them and you're one of them who have worked awfully hard to build the best public radio in the country. And if you look at the Benchmark studies that have been done for public radio stations, Minnesota Public Radio lands on top on every category to pay for the that's what the story is about. It's the Miss understanding of how a non-profit. Has the right to if somebody said to me the other day for why should you be allowed to operate a for-profit company? The Congress said to us in 1980. You better figure out how to earn some money you earn money generally in for-profit businesses. So we began to start some they have been enormously successful because of the people we've attracted to run those companies those those companies all operate in the top quartile of their of their peer group and they generate profits and those profits are significant. Minnesota Public Radio is awfully fortunate to be able to receive since 1987 35 million dollars in net benefit. In other ways. When I say net if you look at every cent that has gone into those companies from Minnesota Public Radio for some service or some some something has been purchased from those companies. Net return back is 35 million dollars. That's part of why NPR is so good. The members who are listening right now some 90,000 are a big part of why Minnesota Public Radio so good that we have that boost that nobody else has think that as a member of the board of the board of directors you spend considerable amount of time looking at this relationship between the for-profit in the nonprofit companies. And because it is unique, what do you use as a guideline to determine whether this is on the up-and-up or not? Well, you're quite right Paula, the board has spent a lot of time on this because we knew that we were creating something that didn't exist anywhere else and when you do something like that what you believe it's right and whether it's in the best interests that it is confusing because people don't have it anything to compare it with their number of things that the board has done. First of all, it watches it carefully that has Committees of finance committee and executive committee. It has the benefit of outside counsel that it uses to establish whether it's within good business practice and within the law and we use outside legal counsel. We also use outside accounting for the big six accounting firm and other experts. So the intention of the board is to make sure that this is done appropriately correctly within the law within a strong ethical framework and we believe that's the case very much. So legal precedent in this area. This has been checked out ten ways against the middle by the best lawyers in town and it's the kind of thing that is now Being copied all over the country. We probably get two or three request a week from somebody saying can you refer to someone who can show us how to how to do this the IRS audit in 1994 was probably the best check as to whether these things are set up properly and it passed the really I think the bigger question is is the coming to understand that these are different kinds of companies in an unusual relationship that is to say a non-profit which works with charitable funds from its listeners and and a for-profit which it On's that operates on the same parameters than any other for-profit company owned if you are at the Opera tonight, if you if you were to think of 3M if we were Fortunate enough to inherit the 3M Company Minnesota Public Radio suddenly own 3M. We would be absolute fools not to let 3M operate exactly as it always has with the same kind of management the same kind of incentive programs the same kind of of an estimate and research and development that causes that company to thrive. Somebody might come along and say well if you cut all that research and development you got rid of all of those Executives who where are compensated above the $50,000. Look how much more money would come to Minnesota Public Radio for about six months at which point we would have destroyed one of the most successful companies in the country. And that's what we have to get people to understand that if nonprofits are going to own for profits before profits have to be left alone to operate on the same parameters as those they compete with and as other for-profit companies operate. I want to get listeners involved in this and we'll take your calls in a minute, but you've opened this door here because I think that a lot of people are wondering about employees listeners members and the general public and that is why is it that bill Kling needs to be an officer of both the for-profit and the nonprofit let me speak about that from the boards perspective is one of the few people who is a member of the board of both Minnesota Public Radio and of the Green Spring Company, they have separate Boards of directors. They have a couple of overlapping board members and she happens to be one of them. I think it's important that that as a the board of NPR sees this as it is in the best interests of NPR end of the listeners if we if Bill and others here had not created the Green Spring companies when they did this radio network wouldn't be as Large and is a successful as it has been we wouldn't be able to attract the talent that we have. We wouldn't be able to have the programming that we now have we wouldn't be able to support a lot of the network operations in out State Minnesota. It just wouldn't exist. We wouldn't have two channels. We'd still have one and it would be a smaller channel. So the board very much believe this is been in the best interest of that the people who created it and know it and are The Visionaries and are the the people that are dedicated to this happened to be Bill Kling at others and we feel fortunate that we have an executive his talented as he is and others who can wear two hats and we can get the center to the benefits of synergy from that and the benefit of having a top-notch executive head at a very good price to all of us. The fact of the matter is it bill was to get run over by The proverbial truck and we talked about this in the Borg. It's unlikely that we would be able to find somebody that could replace him in kind. We have two people and and finding those two people would not be it easy and furthermore in aggregate. We'd be paying them a heck of a lot more and it's questionable whether we'd be getting someone as good. So from the board's perspective man from my own personal perspective. We have the best deal in town. And I know that's difficult because it's Unique to understand but we very much think that this is in the best interests of the long-term interests of Minnesota Public Radio and its listeners. Steve Rothchild is a member of the board of directors of both Minnesota Public Radio and the Green Spring companies. He's here with us on midday today along with Minnesota Public Radio President Bill Clinton to clear up some of the questions that are related to the organizational structure and the executive compensation on NPR yesterday clear up some of the questions again. I am bothered as I've said before about the perception that this investigation is looking for some kind of wrongdoing every question that the Attorney General's office asked has been answered and submitted those answers have been submitted as of May 1st. If you looked at the questions, they asked it's very clear that there have been a number of of of assertive eclectic issues raised over the years by critics of one sort or another and they've been answered and they've been reviewed by the attorneys representing Minnesota Public Radio, and those attorneys are quite confident that those answers are abs. Italy clear and that the organization is absolutely being operated in the most appropriate manner but once somebody uses the word as you did in the in the news cast. Just prior to this this event attorney general's investigation. It casts a negative impression over an organization which has achieved more than any I know of and has the benefit of of this this wonderful machine call Greenspring and and that bothers me a lot. That's a perception that I hope we can turn around. There's nothing wrong with the attorney general asking is for information and we provide at any time and we provide it thoroughly and fully that does not imply that there is something wrong with that. Should know that it is indeed called in inquiry on right Bill Clinton. Let's go to the phone's dick is calling from Roseville. Good morning realize it's Stephenville. Both would be in an awkward position to answer. So I guess I'll turn it into a comment. I suspected NPR success is bread several sour grapes competitors that are using Minnesota's political machine now to get even with him. Also, I'm beginning to wonder since I believe that this inquiry is now calling it is coming out of the legislature. I wonder if the people whose first we all the reading in the paper or so Lily white lately or maybe trying to share the spotlight and get the spotlight off of them. When I say I do have one question does this inquiry this whole hullabaloo seemed to be coming from one political party versus the other or is it coming from all over the place? I don't think we can tell you where it's coming from because we we don't know what all is behind it. All we know is that it originated with a request from representative Matt entenza, which was presented directly to the press and when someone presents a request for information to the Press rather than to the organization, which they're seeking it from I think you got a pretty good idea. What kind of games are being played Joanne from Minneapolis to go next to you. Hi. Thanks for taking my call. I just want to say you know, I I think that it's pretty opportunistic of you. Mr. Cling to be using your own Airwaves to to defend these charges Madden tencza is a legislature a legislator who has a great record. I don't see how there could be a political opportunism involve their I'm in a surprising to hear you talking about the media the way that you are considering that NPR is the media, you know if Matt and pans I had taken one of his staff from the House of Representatives and use them to raise money for his campaign. The media would be all over it. And I don't see why MPR shouldn't be held to the same standard. I don't think I follow the connection between raising money for a campaign. One of the questions that you are asking is certainly one that we discussed in The Newsroom and that is you know, as a journalistically what we consider ourselves to be in organization of journalistic Integrity. Is this an appropriate means and discussion to be having on our mid-day program and it is it's a touchy issue. It's one that I guess we can't absolutely say that there is something that that is acting as a guide in this area. However, we do know that listeners to this radio station and members of it have questions about this and it is an opportunity for you to ask those questions and to be blunt and that is what we're for this hour we've done this by the way over the years Paula, I think both in times of controversy. And in times of no controversy. It's always been important to us to have our listeners have direct communication and I think we used to do this about once a quarter. We've gotten a little sloppy about that lately, but I'm glad we're doing it again. Okay. Gym is calling from St.Paul. By the way, if you have a question for Bill Clinton steam rust Steve Rothchild you can give us a call here in the Twin Cities at 2 to seven $6,000 toll free from outside the metropolitan area at one 800-242-2828. It's 25 minutes past 12 in this is midday on Minnesota Public Radio. Good morning Jim. Yeah, thanks for taking my call and say thanks to mr. Klingon. Mr. Roscoe. And whoever else is around at the beginning to get this thing started. Cuz without this what else do we have for news information also like to say it's Derek good idea always to confront these issues. And if you have the opportunity to use your form immediate to tell what's going on and what you're trying to do. I have more power also is a former Rivertown employee. I did work with the volunteers from MPR directly and I can say from what I saw working with them. They performed admirably and every one of them that I talked to said that they were there as a volunteer to help Minnesota Public Radio like us members always tried doing once again, just no thanks for your help and getting us a service. Thanks for calling Jim can we clarify again? For those who might not know all of the details of this, you know MPR volunteer is going to work at RiverTown why that request was made and what they what they details of it were in December Rivertown Trading Company, which is the catalog company that sends out the wireless and signals catalogs among others moved into a new Distribution Center. That was highly mechanized an automated in Woodbury. It I it had flaws in its systems and it began to jam up and the order has began to pile up at a time when when customers were calling into and hoping that they would get their presence in time for Christmas. We were absolutely overloaded by it. We have more orders than we could handle we had hired everybody that we could find from any temporary agency or elsewhere and we asked our employees at Minnesota Public Radio. If they would spread the word to their Church groups to their families if they had the children home from college offer or a high school vacations any place, we could find anyone to go out and try to help get through that jam because all of the benefits of Rivertown Trading Company come to Minnesota Public Radio, Minnesota Public Radio is the is the ultimate beneficiary We also asked the employees if they had time and we're willing to go out and volunteer that they should do it 9 employees were able to do it. They worked about three hours a piece and they received contributions for their work to their favorite charity, which is what most of them chose to do. We never occurred to me that someone would suggest that that was coercion or improper use of of non-profit company employees. We have since checked it out with the attorneys that represent us and they have said there is no issue. Steve Rothschild, what did it come up before the board? My recollection is a didn't that we can think that came up when when it came up in the Press has an issue and I guess I would agree with Bill if I think the board would have been supportive here because we're volunteering and we would do whatever we can to help NPR be successful in the long run. And if it if it was a question about being supportive when when it when we needed to be supportive. We wouldn't have asked at least I would've asked myself. What is the nature of that? Is it going to be supportive to NPR? And I think that's how employees responded here. So we're proud of the fact I pack to tell you I'm proud of the fact that their employees of NPR that had the time and we're willing to be be helpful. Did the article in the newspaper yesterday pointed out as you have done to the employees here bill that because of this difficulty in the start up at the new facility at RiverTown there have been some losses sustained to RiverTown itself, which could then have an effect on Minnesota Public Radio and this great system that's been built up for for getting some of the profits and royalties from Rivertown to the coffers of Minnesota Public Radio to help support the nonprofit. What is the status of that now and Dives Minnesota Public Radio have something to worry about fortunately we don't have anything to worry about the the problems at the Distribution Center at RiverTown Trading Company, by the way, which weren't the only problems this year by the cost of paper in postage have reason to I think 30-year highs in 1996 anybody who has anything to do with it newspaper catalog company ratings. Use as paper knows what that's done to the profit structure. So it was a bad year in a lot of ways fortunately the Minnesota Public Radio board several years ago decided that spending the royalties that it was receiving from the for-profit companies in in their entirety was not wise so they restricted 1/3 of that money to go into a pound of the easiest way to describe it as a rainy day fund this year when the when the expenses due to all of these issues at RiverTown. I have caused its profits to declined dramatically Minnesota public radio's board decided that since this is an asset that will ultimately it is it is an acid benefits Minnesota Public Radio the board I think and Steve can confirm this would want to protect that acid and what they did was to defer The cash payments of royalties in a in this year which ends June 30th and again next year so that the company can use that money the for-profit company can use that money to recover in lieu of receding that cash that rainy day fund will be tapped to get us over that. Ultimately that cash will be paid on the rainy day fund will be replenished and I would just say that what we have in in in Greenspring is our endowment and we had been getting out of very very nice return off of that and down that much higher than we would have had that been in a traditional form of endowment like stocks and bonds and this year. We're having a problem but luckily is Bill suggested. There was a rainy day fund to deal with those kinds of issues and more moreover allow us to Kenya 10 you to look after the long-term interests of NPR. By propping up the long-term interests of Greensprings. So while the cash each year is important. What's equally if not more important is long-term future of that organization, so it can benefit our endowment long-term. You have more questions for Bill Kling and Steve Rothchild. The number in the Twin Cities is 2276 thousand, or you can reach us toll-free at 1 800-242-2828. Miriam is calling from Minneapolis. I'm a devoted a devotee of public radio both both parts of it and I'm very happy to hear this issue being brought out on the radio because I want it now. It's localized to NPR. It's an issue that threatens or other nonprofits that they canceled any for profits to help them function. It's threatened 8 it will eventually if it's not immediately handled like the political potato that it's liable to come Bible to become immediately because they even the perception of listeners would make myself who are devoted to it for the actually because there's no other station. I would even listen to for a minute. There's nothing worth hearing. And there were too few people in this country who understand that and who would just as listen to anything but public radio. I'm using this statistic wasn't it refers to anything that's really worthwhile that really truly educational that really really choose to him tries hard to inform you on partially. I see this as a real threat to all nonprofits particularly education ones like MTR because those who are threatening and we see it now in a small way would like to do it don't really understand that a nonprofit agency can operate without bias even so they receive funds from a profit for profit organizations. It is not understood and comment. Mr. Clean that in owning a non-profit you want to allow the nonprofit's I'm sorry to unlearn owning a private for-profit as a nonprofit organization you what you want feels at the for present for a profit can operate independently, but some people like myself when you were when the agency is in that sort of joint operatives matter want to be absolutely certain that the nonprofit agencies will not be influenced by any corporate of influences that come from operating for-profit. I hope I'm making myself clear because now is the beginning of a real threat Add to real information being handled appropriately in this country and the fact that it was immediately it at the depression begins to show us how this can be used to distort all kinds of very valuable things. What's that that value that at that I continue to be concerned about we have at our company's at Minnesota monthly Publications at Eminem Radio Networks in at RiverTown Trading Company, which of the three companies that are the for-profit companies. We have a group of very talented people who are achieving an enormously and enormous amount and are very successful at it. I don't want those people feeling that they're doing something wrong just because the relationship with a non-profit seems to be a lightning rod and they are regularly drawn into the press in one way or another in which they never would be if they weren't Associated. We've got to get past that we got to be able to understand how a for-profit and non-profit relationship can work. I think that Miriam touchdown a couple of things that's of concern to a lot of people in this country. Not just Minnesota Public Radio listeners, but that is what is the role of the corporate. when it comes to Distributing information dispensing information, and also what is the future of nonprofits and of course Minnesota Public Radio falls into both of those categories when it comes to funding and And determining what is heard on our Airwaves we heard on the news last night and I'm afraid I only caught part of it. But I heard the words that I was afraid. I would hear some day which was the theory of the project has been put forward talks about the phase-out of the funding for the Corporation for Public Broadcasting and also about the issues that have been coming up and down and will there with a and end as of last night. It's back in the news that the final decision seems to be it's going away Federal funding has built this system since for the last 25 years from something that was kind of a ragtag group of College radio stations into something that is now probably the primary source of thorough information for the American public and probably the greatest sources of Arts programme. It's a system that is you here are letters calling in is highly valued by the people that use the system if it can't be funded and built Play it has been with a portion of its funds coming from the from the government and a lot of people think that that you were is over and should be over. Then you got to find an alternative. Our members have been fantastic 92,000 people in the state of Minnesota and surrounding communities supporting this radio station higher than any other in the country, but it isn't enough to keep the quality that are listening to become used to and the answer that I can see is to engage in in in in entrepreneurial activities where you can use appropriately the the the ideas in such that are generated by the common group of people and earn money on those ideas. 21 minutes before 1 and this is midday on Minnesota Public Radio Off full Bank of callers that we have on the phones. Now, we'll keep going to as many of you as we can get to Greg is calling from St.Paul. Good morning morning. I've been an avid listener Minnesota Public Radio and and and will continue to be but I have to admit that. I've stopped giving a Minnesota Public Radio because I was troubled by the establishment of the for-profit and not-for-profit Arrangement that that has developed. I've got too short questions one is why they're both directed to mr. Rothschild. Why did the organization of pose for legislation that would have revealed compensation for the executives on the nonprofit side? That's the first question. The second question is it seems to me that there's a there's a conflict of interest between board members serving on the profit and non-profit boards. It's it's unclear to me how how that board member operates when there may be instances where Presenting the interests of the nonprofit don't mess with the interests of the Prophet or vice versa and indeed if there's some sort of a decision that there's another Corporation out there that can offer royalty payments in excess of the arrangement that exist now how you would ever proceed with that type of a negotiation when the party's on both sides of the table are the same. Well, thank you very much for those questions. Actually, I think what you said is why did Minnesota Public Radio oppose the submission of information about nonprofit salaries that is not the case we have for many years been providing for the nonprofit salaries in accordance with the law and and that wasn't an issue. The question was about the for-profit company as I recall it in the early versions of the bill. It called for us to disclose the salaries of the top five people in each not only of the holding company Greenspring but each of the subsidiary companies and one we looked at that we found that that would have necessitated us disclosing the salaries of people like sales salesman in those companies because there are small companies in some cases are feeling was that wasn't really what the law was trying to get at but more importantly it would put us at a very difficult competitive Advantage. I don't think I would want to work for Company if I was a Salesman and have my salary disclosed and furthermore, I wouldn't want my competitor to see the salary of my employees. Luckily The Ledger later saw the wisdom of that and change the nature of the law. And at that point we disclosed the the salaries of the two Executives who are shared and have a position to both a nonprofit and for-profit Company. And in fact, did it ahead of the Mandate of time and we're only too happy to do it. So we weren't against nonprofit information at all. We've been doing it and we just needed clarification. And once that was done we moved forward the head of their timetable. But can you understand that the again the public perception that occurs when it appears that well here is a company that just doesn't want to divulge what its top executives are made and therefore adding to that suspicion of what is going on in the relationship between this profit for profit and non-profit company. We have a very complicated situation. As I said earlier there is nothing like this that we know of not only in Minnesota but elsewhere and as a result, we are constantly dealing with issues of providing information on the one hand that would clarify it and on the other hand running a for-profit and non-profit business that are run well for the long-term interest of listeners, and because it's not well understood some of the things that we do provide need even more clarification poor people jump to the wrong conclusion. I think one of the unfortunate things here and I'm not speaking of anything in specific but in general is that when something is different most people jump to the conclusion that there's something wrong about it that we have to investigate it. We have to have enquiries and while we welcome the opportunity to open our books and share all the information with those who would like to be inquisitive in this way. It really is distracting and we forget what we have here is a wonderful institution. It's one of the reasons that the that I think makes the Twin Cities area distinctive in this country and we don't talk enough about that. We don't recognize the benefit that institutions like NPR have brought and we spent a lot of time trying to find out what might be wrong when there is nothing wrong answer the other question. I believe that some of the members of the green springboard ought to be a members of its own board to look to make sure that its interests were looked after and this is often the case when you have a company owns another company in a subsidiary relationship and then you have parent company members on that board in cases where there's any question about conflict of interest. For example, in the most recent case where the green spring board voted not to pass on cash contributions in the most recent year the two of us who are both boards up stained and didn't vote and that's how we generally handle such issues. But we think it's in the best interest of NPR and that's why we do it this way Greg also mentioned something and I do want to get back to the phone but this actually been a question that I have heard from other people in in frankli is in my own mind and when you talk about 35 million Tyler's coming from the various Greenspring companies to NPR when we go on the air and say to people we really need your support. Send us your $45. What difference does that make when you're talking about millions of dollars coming from a for-profit company million dollars since 1987. My guess is that the money that has been contributed by our membership base is something close to 40 million dollars over that same. So it that those $45 $60 contributions add up. I think the total from from membership this year will be closed to 4 and 1/2 million dollars. That's that's what really drives this company and it's a wonderful Diversified support. Somebody may not like something we just heard a question from someone who had stop contributing because he was concerned about this relationship fortunately. Membership-based is so diverse that it doesn't tend to acting in the same way and it is a very stable source of Revenue. Go back to the phone's Larry is calling from blackduck, Minnesota. Hi, Larry. Good afternoon. I'm proud to be a charter member of KC RB in a strong supporter of Minnesota Public Radio in northern Minnesota last year. I testified at the legislative Millie session in support of public radio, but I'm a very small business man and a very small town. I told our station manager that when we got to the two station system up here with a news and the music that I would double my underwriting which I did and end for a small business. That doesn't generate $25,000 a year in income. I'm now giving over $1,000 but I was very disturbed when I saw how much money mr. Clean is making from Greenspring. I have no problem with the salary for the not-for-profit, but for the Green Springs to me those salaries are very high when they're asking us small businesses like us to contribute and then when The impetus is that all of these for profits are mainly to funnel money back in the Minnesota Public Radio, but there's some very high salaries being paid there. When you compare up to our top public service is our governor and this type of thing. This disturbs me. I did fax a letter up when this came out to a couple months ago to mr. Clean. I got no response from him. I did get a response from her station manager, but I got no response and I can assure you that the thousand dollars is going to be way too much of for me to give next year when mr. Clean is getting his type of celery. Thank U rector's this one's for you. Well, actually not German, but I am on the compensation committee, and I'd be happy to try to take a swing at it. The compensation Committee of all the boards looks at salaries in in in in both a nonprofit and for-profit in a similar way. It's based on on competitive factors and I are a pair of our responsibility as board members are is to make sure that the for-profit and non-profit are run by the best people we can get for the long-term interests of those organizations in the long-term interests of their members when we look at 156 million-dollar Enterprise that and highly profitable was great returns in order to attract the kind of talent. We need to provide the kind of 35 million-dollar return that we've got and the and the increasing value of that entity. We have to pay competitive salaries or we will not attract the the people that we need to keep it going and that would be walking away from Eros. Possibility if we were merely say that we're going to put a limit. Let's pick the same salary that they build a luta to further earlier a $50,000 or at at at at are four prophets. We would not have the same group of people. They are running it and I can assure you that in the long run that entity would be worth a lot less and we wouldn't be getting contributions and we will all be worth a lot less and be worse off for it. So this is this is done on a competitive bases. The data is not made up by management or the board. We hire outside counsel National compensation experts that do surveys. This is studied in great detail by members of the compensation committee reviewed with the board to ensure that it is appropriate and that we are in sending people in the right way and that we do have the kind of talent that we need. I think what is confusing here again, is that we have A couple people that are wearing two hats and from my perspective in the boards perspective. We're all Lucky for it. But from other people's perspectives are having a tough time to separate non profit from for-profit and and it's understandable. But I hope after hearing it at least you think it's many of you at least would think that it's in the best interest of all of us cuz that's the only way that the board looks at it to get into a web here in this particular area that that can become very complex. But one of the questions then I guess I've heard a lot of people ask is what they're even be a Greenspring companies. Would Bill Kling be a CEO of a company like that were it not for Minnesota Public Radio? I'm not quite sure well as an entrepreneur would you have been described as many many times would you have created these Greenspring companies if you didn't have Some concern about Minnesota Public Radio and wanting to grow Minnesota Public Radio. The reason I didn't answer the letter that that I got on salary is it that it really isn't my decision. I am hired to do what the board is asked me to do and I don't feel that I ought to be defending or or or promoting what I'm paid because it because I don't have anything to say about it. I am concerned about the amount of money that comes out of the charitable dollars contributed from the nonprofit donors. The fact that that that's our has been widely reported as $67,000 a year is way below the national norm and it's a bargain for the nonprofit on a nutcase. I'm happy to say it cuz I'm very proud of the fact that we have top number one performance level and probably number 150. Compensation level in terms of other public stations around the country. To give you another example in terms of what kind of salaries are paid at the for-profit companies and I use the example earlier that if you if you inherited 3M you would be foolish to try to change the structure that that that is working. So successfully their the Rivertown trading company has has widely been reported ahead some some serious problem in the start-up of their Distribution Center. They have now determined that they have been to two I want to say cheap. They they've been there they've they've been too careful of the money that they've been spending and they didn't have sufficient strength to grow that much faster and get that much bigger. They tried to do it without spending the money they should do it should be spent there now going to spend that and a search firm is bringing in the kinds of candidates that are needed with the experience that that has that is required for top management. These these are for sat for Senior Management level people and they're going to pay what they need to pay to get performance because frankly if in hindsight if we had had a little greater strength there, the the costs of this startup would have been less it would have been a benefit to the non-profit because we would have lost much money and in this conversion that's a very simplistic way of looking at what happened and I don't need to do to minimize the both of you cheat modes of the people at RiverTown or the complexity of what they tried to do, but you can't just assume that that that you can hire people off the street to make something as complex as a company like that work to your question Paula. I would say that it If Bill hadn't created used his create creativity and and Bill and others the likelihood is he wouldn't still be here and he'd be creating something somewhere else for his own benefit and how much wealthier man and and and Minnesota Public Radio would be poor because of it when I would say Steve is it to Donna Avery who has been the genius behind Rivertown Trading Company and Dusty Fox who runs Minnesota monthly Publications Tim shears who runs Eminem Radio Networks. They all get offers. They are too good at what they do with their performances too far above the norm for them not to be noticed and if we simply said arbitrarily we're going to hold salaries down in order to maximize the return of the nonprofit. It would be a very short term and short-sighted went looking at 5 minutes before 1 just a few minutes left in our discussion here today with NPR President Bill Clinton and board member Steve Rothchild for taking your calls and Harry's been holding in Roseville. Good morning or good afternoon to move quickly. I'm going to student of management for 40 years about half of that time in the private Consulting business and a half of a time is the CU of Community Hospital smaller hospitals, and I have to say that the concept of nonprofits organization is not uncommon in healthcare and it's a great idea and cleaning company should be congratulated for getting into it. I was away from the state for 9 years and I came back a few years ago couple years ago looks to me like NPR's firing away the leader and it's filled and I'm sure that that's due to no small measure because of the entrepreneurial skills of a bill Kling. And he should be congratulated not criticized for that salary in it. And I agree with both of us speaker 17 with proprietary. Salary should be hired same the nonprofit that money that's where it should be coming from my observations been in healthcare that a lot of people who criticize the CEO of getting salaries from both ends or frankly a little jealous again, and also from competitors who are jealous of the success of the of the situation. I think that's the case here. I mean NPR's later and we got people out there that one legitimate criticism of owning a nonprofit organization is sugar nonprofit organization on a profit-making organization, and that's probably when the public policy is leaning towards Not contributing to to nonprofits in the usual way like government grants and that's every way then how else can you make money? I mean, this is a very creative thing that congratulated for forgetting into the prime a profit-making side. And and I don't think there's any conflict of interest of these executive serving in both capacities unabashedly the purpose of owning a profit-making subsidiary is to assist the nonprofit organization. I mean that that's the purpose of it. I see there's no criticism. I support what you're doing. We only have about a minute or so left in our discussion. And and as we look at this inquiry, the Civil investigative demand is the technical term that's being used that the Attorney General is looking at lots and lots of paperwork frankly from Minnesota Public Radio. What when will we see an outcome and how will it be publicized? But my hope is because it has become public these things are not public and certainly the Attorney General's office did not intend it to be public for exactly this reason. They wanted to ask some questions. They did not want to to raise doubts about or cast cast any kind of cloud over Minnesota Public Radio. They had no intention of that. So they put it under CID which is the Civil civil investigative demand in order to give it a total confidentiality impact their criminal sanctions against anyone leaking any information from it now. But it has come out and it wasn't their fault that it came out. It came out through through Minnesota public radio's processes. I hope that they will go through this very very speedily because we are convinced that that it's a good story and I hope that they will find that to be the case and explaining this to listeners and to the rest of the public out there Bill Clinton president of Minnesota Public Radio and Steve Rothchild was a member of the board of directors of NPR in green screen companies. Are the next to All Things Considered Mark's it act like gives us a profile of the new 200 foot high roller coaster at Valleyfair. It's all things considered weekdays at 3 on Minnesota Public Radio k n o w FM 91.1 cloudy skies and 47 degrees at k n o w FM 91.1 Minneapolis-Saint Paul temperature is holding steady in the Twin Cities today at 45 to 50 degrees getting up into the lower 50s to talk. The nation is next. From National Public Radio in New York, this is Talk of the Nation Science Friday. Hi, Myra, Play-Doh early humans first walk to North America from Siberia more than 10,000 years ago, but just how much one.