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[MUSIC PLAYING] GARY EICHTEN: Well, good afternoon. Welcome back to Midday here on Minnesota Public Radio. Gary Eichten here. This being Christmas Eve, we thought we'd do something a little bit different. Basically, we'd like to spend this hour talking about what Christmas means to you. So many people have special memories, special traditions at this time of the year that we thought it'd be fun to talk about that.

Also, of course, there is the issue of how people spend the holiday season. Has it really become too commercial? Were the good old days really all that good? And for that matter, there are a lot of people who don't celebrate Christmas at all, but who find themselves caught in the middle of all of this.

While we're waiting for our first caller, kind of prime the pump a little bit, we thought we'd share a classic of the Christmas season. Namely, is there a Santa Claus? The letter, an editorial that first appeared in The New York Sun newspaper back in 1897 and was reprinted for several years thereafter.

We presented here in only slightly altered form. Here's Anna Olson, followed by her dad, Dan.

ANNA OLSON: Dear Editor, I am eight years old. Some of my little friends say there is no Santa Claus. Papa says, "If you see it in the sun, it's so." Please tell me the truth. Is there a Santa Claus? Virginia.

DAN OLSON: Virginia, your little friends are wrong. They've been affected by the skepticism of a skeptical age. They do not believe except they see. They think that nothing can be which is not comprehensible by their little minds. All minds, Virginia, whether they be adults or children's, are little.

In this great universe of ours, the human is a mere insect, an ant in his intellect, as compared with the boundless world about him as measured by the intelligence capable of grasping the whole of truth and knowledge.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Claus. He exists as certainly as love and generosity and devotion exist, and you know that they abound and give to your life its highest beauty and joy.

Alas! How dreary would be the world if there were no Santa Claus. It would be as dreary as if there were no Virginias. There would be no childlike faith, then no poetry, no romance to make tolerable this existence. We should have no enjoyment except in sense and sight. The eternal light with which childhood fills the world would be extinguished.

Not believe in Santa Claus, you might as well not believe in fairies. You might get your parents to hire people to watch in all the chimneys on Christmas Eve to catch Santa Claus. But even if they did not see Santa Claus coming down, what would that prove? Nobody sees Santa Claus. But that is no sign that there is no Santa Claus.

The most real things in the world are those that neither children nor adults can see. Did you ever see fairies dancing on the lawn? Of course not. But that's no proof that they are not there. Nobody can conceive or imagine all the wonders that are unseen and unseeable in the world.

You tear apart the baby's rattle and you see what makes the noise inside, but there's a veil covering the unseen world which not the strongest person, not even the united strength of all of the strongest people that ever lived could tear apart. Only faith, fancy, poetry, love, romance can push aside that curtain and view and picture the supernal beauty and glory beyond.

Is it all real? Ah, Virginia, in all this world, there is nothing else real and abiding. No Santa Claus. Thank God he lives, and he lives forever. A thousand years from now, Virginia, nay, 10,000 years from now, he'll continue to make glad the heart of childhood.

GARY EICHTEN: Is there a Santa Claus? The famous letter and editorial which first appeared in The New York Sun newspaper back in 1897. The letter was read by Anna Olson, the reply by her dad, Minnesota Public Radio Reporter, Dan Olson.

Well, we would like to hear your favorite Christmas story or comments on the Christmas season. A favorite memory, a family tradition, what have you. A lot of people on the line with some thoughts and comments on the season. Let's go to our first caller. Hi, you're on Minnesota Public Radio.

AUDIENCE: Hi, this is Larry from Minneapolis.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes, sir.

AUDIENCE: I guess what I have to say falls in the comment category.

GARY EICHTEN: OK.

AUDIENCE: Personally, I'm Jewish, so I'm kind of peripherally associated with this holiday. But a thought always comes to mind to me when I look at the-- what I call the crass commercialization that has replaced the religious significance of the holiday for too many people. And that's a comment that a clergy made.

Oh, I recall hearing it more than a decade ago. And every year, as commercialization gets worse, in my opinion, and the thought reinforces myself, and what he was expressing was pity, in a sense. This was not a Christian clergy. I forget if he was Jewish or some other faith.

But what he was pointing out is that the pity about the commercialization that's grown up around Christmas, is that it no longer has the religious significance to so many Christians that a holiday of this importance ought to have. I mean, it's one of the two or three most important holidays or occasions on the Christian calendar.

But all the thoughts that go into it are, what am I going to get? I want this. Joey's getting a VCR. I got to have something more expensive. Those kinds of thoughts. And that's my first contribution to this discussion is that, in a sense I agree with that particular clergy person.

I pity the Christians in this country who really and truly want Christmas to be a religiously significant holiday. Because they probably have as much of a chance of avoiding the crass commercialization as Jews and Muslims and non-Christians do. We're just overwhelmed by it.

I mean, I can remember when I was a kid, Christmas decorations started going up, oh, a couple of weeks before Christmas. There were a couple of places around the Twin Cities that never even bothered taking them down after last year. That kind another thought related to it.

We've just gone hog wild overboard on the commercialization elements. And the whole religious significance has just been totally lost. And then the another side of the coin is it's difficult being a non-Christian over this holiday in a community like Minnesota, because basically, turn on the radio or you hear a Christmas music. You turn on-- even talk shows, what are they talking about? Christmas.

[LAUGHTER]

Your favorite radio station, I'm thinking of [INAUDIBLE] which I like listening to a lot. They're going to have 33 hours straight of Christmas music. There should be alternatives available for people who aren't Christian, and they're just not there.

I mean, yes, there's commercialization available. But one thinks that maybe this is a niche that public radio and public television could be filling. We talk about the concept of counter-programming. Maybe this is a place that the public arenas ought to counter-program, since the commercial arenas are overwhelming us with Christmas and Christianity.

Maybe here's where we need the public arena to compensate and basically avoid the subject, admit to people, we know it's there and we know you're celebrating it. But there are other people out there from different traditions and different backgrounds, and they need something available to them too, so we're providing it.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, thanks for your comments. OK, let's take another caller with some thoughts on Christmas. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, good morning. I'm calling from the shores of beautiful Lake Superior in Grand Portage, Minnesota.

GARY EICHTEN: Glad you could join us.

AUDIENCE: And thank you for the opportunity to talk with you and to listen to others, because communications is the essence of Christmas for me. It's an opportunity for us to listen to the human side of life as well as the divine side.

And I don't get caught up in a conflict between the rush and hush of Christmas. I like to be ready, do certain things. I'm a kind of an organized person and plan ahead. But then I kind of like to come to Christmas Eve worship with a relaxed and open mind and heart to realize that if my expectations of humans are too high, I can be disappointed.

And I think that's part of the pain of Christmas sometimes for people in their memories is they expect too much, and then are disappointed. But I guess I have to balance that with always realizing that, and this may sound like I'm sermonizing, but it's true that we can always expect God won't fail us.

And I think that's what Christmas is, as Norman Lear pointed out yesterday in your program about a need for spirituality in America, in the world. We need to accept the fact that we all have the capacity for spiritual life. And I think somehow that has been neglected.

So whatever one's orientation, whether it's Christian or non-Christian, I think Christmas says, hey, here's a chance to open your heart, and your ears, and your mind and to just listen. And we have a tradition of saving all of our Christmas cards and letters because they represent a bonding between us and people we've known through the years.

And so every day after Christmas through the coming year, we reread these cards and letters, and then remember these people in our morning devotions.

Many times you are brought into awareness of their problems and their needs as well as their joys. And so the communication process continues, and it's kind of a gift that keeps giving. And of course, I think this for me represents that this is the kind of life that the Christ came to give us at Christmas was the share and care for each other.

GARY EICHTEN: All right. Well, thanks for your comments.

AUDIENCE: Yes, sir.

GARY EICHTEN: Have a pleasant holiday. Let's go to another caller with some thoughts and comments on the Christmas season. Hello.

AUDIENCE: Well, hello. Merry Christmas. I'm Linda from South Minneapolis, and I couldn't resist calling this morning because I'm working on our Christmas, one of our old Christmas traditions of a sweet cheese that's on the stove for eight hours and it boils down, it simmers down into this caramelized milk curds.

And as I'm working on it, I'm thinking of how a lot of traditions have never been founded in some families of the younger generation. And my mother's been gone for 20 years. And as I make this cheese, I'm sharing it with our family, the kids today, my brothers and sisters, we don't get together this evening as a family.

But when I give them their little package of this caramelized cheese, the look on their face and that goes back all the 45 and more years of our lives brings back so much fresh feelings of families together when Christmases were a lot less complicated and complex.

GARY EICHTEN: You know, I was reading something about that, oh, a few weeks ago. And it was William Raspberry, the syndicated columnist, who was questioning whether or not those good old days were really all that good. Not that they weren't pleasant and so on, but that it was mostly just a question that people weren't as mobile as they used to be or as they are now.

And that really nothing too much has changed except that we tend to be more spread out. Do you think that's true?

AUDIENCE: Well, I think that--

GARY EICHTEN: It's not like we've all gone to hell in a handbasket. You know what I'm saying?

AUDIENCE: Well, I think that we share these same-- you have, in fact, because we are more mobile, you're expected to go farther and do more. So I think that the old Christmases of a tradition that you could maybe drive to grandmother's house over river and through the snow a few miles away.

And if it was a bad Christmas, you stayed home. But it wasn't, so it wasn't uncomfortable spending time with your family. And the simplicity of the gifts, and then you enjoyed each other and you could participate in more fun things. I know we played a lot of games, and we were in the country and we went for sleigh rides.

I think that it was a significantly more meaningful Christmas, those times than any hustle and bustle in the stores. The gifts that you'd make at school and bring home for your mom was enough.

We each had $1 to spend. And dad would traditionally go on Christmas Eve shopping because it was cheap. Things were prices were dropped. And we could buy for all the relatives, the aunts and uncles. And I was thinking the other day, as my nieces and nephews are upwards of 20 years old, I have only received one gift from one of those children in all their lives. And I don't know, I think it's pretty sad.

They expect the large gifts. But as I'm standing here and doing this sweet cheese, the memories of my mother is just overwhelming. And so I think that the old Christmases were more tradition and they were simpler. We didn't have the money, granted, and if times were tight. And orange in my stocking and a box of raisins was pretty special.

GARY EICHTEN: Have a Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Thank you. You too.

GARY EICHTEN: Good luck with that cheese.

AUDIENCE: Thanks. Bye bye.

GARY EICHTEN: What we're talking about today are your Christmas memories, traditions, what you think of the way we celebrate the season. If you don't celebrate the season, we'd be interested in talking with you as well about what it's like to be kind of an outside observer on this process. Back to the phones and other callers on the line with some thoughts. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. My name is Gary. I'm calling from Sioux Falls, South Dakota.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes, Gary.

AUDIENCE: And my wife and I had to learn how to compromise somewhat because she's from Mississippi, and they have different traditions than we do up here in the Midwest. I'm basically from Northwest Iowa, but we've been married been in Sioux Falls here for about 14 years. It seems like with today's pace and stuff, both of us have to work and stuff.

So for Christmas, we basically have to start to put into priority what's important to us. And even today my wife is working, but I'm spending the day with my four kids. They're 11, 8, 6, and 3. We're catching up. We're catching up with the quality time that we missed so much during the year.

And they desire so much. Well, I desire it too. I miss it so much. And I mean, even they had a Christmas program here at church the other night, and the youngest was sick with the croup and stuff. So I stayed home and I had to miss my second-- actually, my oldest daughter, her debut in singing in church. And that really was kind of bad for me. But you have to prioritize what's important. And so we're doing that.

And as far as today we're just going to relax. My oldest son, the 11-year-old, he's starting to really appreciate football. So we're going to watch that game this afternoon. We're looking forward to tomorrow, of course. We're trying to keep it simple.

We realize we can't keep all the traditions that my wife's family had and all the traditions that my family had. So we're making our own. And my kids just got done watching the movie Free Willy, and I'm reading newspapers, and I catch up on a lot of the news on the radio. I've been listening to your station today and just relaxing. And you read the newspapers about what's going on, and I like to read the Star Tribune, to be exact.

GARY EICHTEN: But don't read too much news. Don't listen to too much news today, it's too depressing.

AUDIENCE: I never really get too during the week when I'm working. And so actually for me to sit down and read it, it's relaxing. And I know news all the time, can kind of get you down. But actually just sitting here relaxing and catching up to me is relaxing.

GARY EICHTEN: I know what you mean. Well, thanks a lot and have a great day.

AUDIENCE: Merry Christmas.

GARY EICHTEN: And Merry Christmas to you. Let's go to another caller. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. I've been thinking a lot about what values I want to replicate for my family for Christmas. And trying to discard some of the things that have made Christmases in my family unpleasant, and to try to think about what values I want my child to grow up with associated with Christmas.

And I've been thinking a lot about sense of community, and celebrating friendships, and celebrating family, and celebrating real charity that comes from the heart. And I guess this year, I felt mainly frustration and alienation because I see a lot of hypocrisy. I have a special angle on it because I fund raise for a nonprofit.

And I've spent the weeks prior to Christmas, talking to people who live in palatial households, telling me that they don't have anything extra because they're tapped out. And it's been really, really frustrating for me. And I guess my concern is that over time it's more obvious during Christmas, we're so involved with our own families.

And making sure that our families have what they want materially, that we forget about the larger community. And we live in a large community. And we have to take care of each other. And if those values disappear, we don't have Christmas.

GARY EICHTEN: How do you pass that on to your child?

AUDIENCE: I don't know. I think it's something you make up as you go along. That's what I'm trying to figure out.

GARY EICHTEN: Right.

AUDIENCE: Well, that's what I've been thinking about. We've got to take care of one another.

GARY EICHTEN: All right. Well, thanks for your call.

AUDIENCE: Thank you. Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Have a good holiday. Other callers on the line.

AUDIENCE: Well, hi. My name is Marie Castle. I'm the co-chair of Minnesota Atheists. And people are always asking us, what we do at Christmas time? And they come into my house and they see this tree decorated, and they see the gifts, and I talk about the parties. And they say, well, how can you celebrate Christmas when you're an Atheist?

And I say, well, I'm celebrating the winter solstice, which is really the true reason for the season. Because from ancient times, people celebrated this time of year as the light has a rebirth over darkness, so to speak. And all the elements of the Christmas celebration, including the Fir tree and the mistletoe, and the Yule log candles, friends gathering, gifts, that whole thing is simply of pagan origin and represents ancient human ways of relating to a natural phenomenon, which is the apparent death and resurrection of the sun and the promise of spring.

And the Christian church actually tried to stop these celebrations, and couldn't do it because people just loved to party. So they finally decided to call it, well, let's call it the birth of Christ. And so that's kind of a tag on. So we just simply ignore that. And we go on celebrating nature, which is the way this time of year was intended to be celebrated.

And we think it's fine. If religious people want to have a celebration, put a certain meaning on it, but it would be better if the celebration could be for everybody. And as Atheists, we look forward to the day when religious creeds will be a matter of private observance, and the winter solstice will be recognized throughout the world as a day of peace and friendship and celebration, a celebration of our mother Earth.

And perhaps if we had such international celebrations, it would help to unite us in a real bond of goodwill that would recognize our common humanity and our dependence on nature. And so that's how we celebrate it. And I think we'd like to see the term for the season called instead of Christmas, Yuletide, which is a really good Scandinavian term and really appropriate for this part of the country.

The Yuletide is the turning of the wheel of the year. And that's exactly what we're celebrating, when the days are so long or so short and if the nights are so long and it's so dark, we need these celebrations. And so as Atheists, we simply celebrate nature and our dependence on it. And we just wish that people wouldn't be divided by creeds and keep that as their own private observance, but everybody get together just to celebrate nature and our common humanity.

GARY EICHTEN: All right. Well, but Merry Yuletide to you.

AUDIENCE: OK. Thank you. And the same to you.

[LAUGHTER]

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks a lot.

AUDIENCE: OK.

GARY EICHTEN: 29 minutes before or past-- 31 minutes. rather past the hour. Let's go back to the phones and our callers on the line. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. I just have a comment and then I just want to share what Christmas has become for my family. About six years ago, we decided to really simplify it, and to focus on the true meaning of Christmas. And it's amazing how you don't realize what a burden and how much trouble the other brings on until you actually stop doing it and step out of the rat race, so to speak.

GARY EICHTEN: What did you stop doing?

AUDIENCE: We stopped all this crazy running around trying to get gifts for each other. We, as the adult members of our family, we have decided not to exchange gifts during Christmas. But we still do for the little kids. But we try to always work in something to keep the focus on the true meaning, like the singing of carols.

One of my nephews will read the story of the birth of Christ in the Gospels and things like that. And we just get together and we have a very wonderful time. And when the angel came to those shepherds and said, "unto you is born this day a saviour," it is because and here's where I'm very grateful for this time of year that my family and we have experienced that.

And so for that, Christmas truly does have a lot of fullness and meaning, and we try to keep it that way. And so Christmas for me is a very special time because it's just a remembering of what that experience is in our lives that we experience every day. I mean, Christmas for us is a daily thing. It's not just one timeout of the year. Yeah.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, great.

AUDIENCE: That's all I have.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, thanks for your comments.

AUDIENCE: You're welcome. Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's take another caller with some thoughts on the Christmas season. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. I'm glad to have a chance to tell everybody Merry Christmas and Happy New Year. And also, I have one comment, just to say that you cannot tell everybody you got to be happy because it's a Christmas. Because everybody has different traditions, maybe different cultures.

So I'd like to tell every person, just be yourself. If you're happy, it's OK. Be proud of your traditions and your culture. And it's nice to get a party and to have a family. But not all the families are the same. Some families are different. Some families are happy. Some families have financial problems, some are well-off and they don't need help or anything.

And so just the person has to be himself and doesn't have to be happy just because it's Christmas season. Because happiness goes from his own personality.

GARY EICHTEN: No sense in feeling weird if you're not quite as gung ho as everybody else, right?

AUDIENCE: Well, I think that yeah. A person has to be himself, just not because of it's a holiday. He has to be happy in everything.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, thanks for calling.

AUDIENCE: Thanks.

GARY EICHTEN: Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Other callers on the line. Hi,

AUDIENCE: Hi. I'm Joel Torstenson. We've been a consummate listeners to your program here at this house for several years. And we want to take this opportunity to thank you very much for the excellent programs you conduct. And, again, to thank you for this morning.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, thank you.

AUDIENCE: This has been as-- in our family, we have four daughters, and as they were growing up, we'd get together during the Christmas season and trim the tree together. And while we were trimming the tree, we would take turns reading Dickens Christmas Carol. And now that it's 150 years since that publication first came out, it's a good time to remember him.

Dickens himself had the experience of trying to recapture the significance of the more rural experience of England in the context of an urban world. And it seems to me that the diversity that's reflected in your conversations this morning is an example of a diverse world, made more diverse by a highly urbanized society.

And we just found that a fairly useful tradition for us. And we thought that in many ways, Dickens captured the essence of the best of the Christmas story.

GARY EICHTEN: You still do it?

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, great. Thanks for your call.

AUDIENCE: You're welcome.

GARY EICHTEN: Appreciate it. Let's take another caller with some thoughts on the Christmas season. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. I'm Duncan Holmstrom from Saint Paul, Minnesota.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes.

AUDIENCE: And our tradition is really-- my mom has her own business of cleaning houses. And she makes caramel corn for tradition. And now she gives it to her clients. And my dad just started a new tradition for every client's kid. He makes a little cracker, artificial, he says, "if you want it to crack, you'll have to say crack."

And he-- I'm on the radio, Jeff.

[LAUGHS]

One of our friends, just came in. Well, we do stuff like that. We read Christmas books, and we read How The Grinch Stole Christmas. And we just got a new book, two new really, Christmas Trolls-- not the little funky haired thingies, and what's it called? Called something called a Christmas Village, we got this month autographed by the author.

We decorate the tree. We get a new ornament every year. And--

GARY EICHTEN: Listen, have a great holiday. Great Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Oh, I will. Thanks.

GARY EICHTEN: Got to ask you, by the way, before you run, are those caramel balls any good?

AUDIENCE: Yes, very.

[LAUGHS]

GARY EICHTEN: Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Bye bye. It's the beauty of live radio,you know. Let's go back to the phones. Another callers on the line. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi, how are you doing today?

GARY EICHTEN: Just fine, sir.

AUDIENCE: Calling from Western Minnesota.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes.

AUDIENCE: And Merry Christmas to you. And just like to reflect on some sentiments expressed earlier by some of our viewers. Number one, I think the first call we had off the bat. Captured something pretty concisely, and speaking about the commercialism. I think there's always a lot of it around and you can't escape it.

Speaking personally for myself, I think perhaps Christmas comes for many in one great big rush, on this particular calendar day of the year. As far as some type of preparation for it, I happen to be a Lutheran minister. And my preparation for Christmas begins beforehand. It begins already a month beforehand, meditating on it, the true meaning of Christmas in the gospel accounts.

And be frank with you, certainly there are a lot of distractions and interruptions that would want to distract me from what I believe is the Christian Christmas. Today in the City of David, a Saviour has been born to you. He is Christ the Lord.

My most interesting Christmas was one that I wanted to forget, and I don't actually remember very much at all. I had chicken pox on Christmas. And as a little rugrat, I suppose I was just fit to be tied, and my parents gratefully have forgotten that Christmas too. So with that, I guess that's about all I have to say.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks so much for your call.

AUDIENCE: Bye bye now.

GARY EICHTEN: Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Likewise.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's take another caller. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hello. I'm Sam in Saint Paul.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes, Sam.

AUDIENCE: And I recall, it's funny, I can't think of a single gift from my childhood that really stands out. But I do remember some of the activities, such as trimming the tree, such as making homemade ornaments for the tree and for around the home. And I look at what we're doing now, and I agree with many of the callers that things have gotten out of hand.

And I wonder if it is somehow possible for those of us who want to get back to a little bit more meaningful Christmas. If some kind of non-denominational body of people from various backgrounds and churches could give support to each other for the idea of shifting the emphasis of gift-giving to either epiphany or possibly to Saint Nicholas Day, with the coins and the shoes and little traditions like that, as opposed to the big blowout Christmases.

It's the kind of thing that if one person does alone, they kind of regard it as kind of a Grinch. Oh, you're taking all the fun out of it. But it seems to me that if a whole community of people from various faiths were to take this approach and keep in touch and replace the big bang theory, the big hoopla, of the one day celebration with a more level approach say, from Saint Nicholas Day through epiphany.

Where some of that void would be filled up with possibly concert going, some of the various Christmas themed shows that are on, possibly your holidazzle or your light sightseeing and so forth.

Maybe there is something out there already, where there is some kind of support for parents who want to do this kind of thing, and have a little bit of support so that children realize that this is not just mom's idea or dad's idea, that they're being a bit of a Grinch this year.

But that there's something to it, and that there's something valuable to be exchanged in giving up this frenzy of unwrapping gifts, where sometimes gifts get lost in the shuffle. They get thrown away in the trash bags along with the wrappings. I've seen it happen and been rather dismayed by that.

But for kids to see that in giving up that, they're getting something more valuable in return. Of course, they'll realize that as adults, but I think could even-- could appreciate that even as children. If they see that they're getting something, maybe not the name brand toy or clothing that they thought they wanted, but they get something richer and fuller.

GARY EICHTEN: OK. Well, good idea. Thank you for your call.

AUDIENCE: Thanks.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's take another caller with some thoughts on the holiday. Hi.

AUDIENCE: All right. Well, my memorable Christmas was when my husband was hospitalized up in the city years ago when our boys were little. And somebody brought him home on Christmas Eve, and I said that was a very memorable Christmas to have him home.

GARY EICHTEN: That's really the kind of underscores the real meaning of what's important, doesn't it?

AUDIENCE: Yes, ahuh. And also the fact that the night we were going over and spend Christmas Eve with my mother, who will be 94 in February, and that's we certainly appreciate that very much.

GARY EICHTEN: You bet. Thanks so much. And have a Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Thank you.

GARY EICHTEN: Bye bye. Another caller is on the line. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. Am I on?

GARY EICHTEN: You bet.

AUDIENCE: Oh, I'm sorry. I wanted to talk about a Christmas memory of mine from when I was 13 years old. And it stems from that fact that my father died when I was 11. And he had spent so much money. He left our family in huge debt. So we were on public assistance and everything. We didn't have hardly any money at all.

And a couple of days before Christmas, we got this huge box delivered to our house, like the size of what a stove comes in. And it was filled with all the things you would want for a Christmas dinner. And it had gifts for all of us children, that they were very nice gifts.

And apparently, the people that gave it to us had checked with my mother ahead of time and found out what we needed or what we liked. So we got these very personalized types of things. And it made such an impression on me that I've in my adult life, lived up to that type of commitment to others who don't have as much as well.

GARY EICHTEN: Wow. These neighbors or friends or?

AUDIENCE: No. I don't know who they were. There was an address on the box, but I don't know that it was necessarily from them, from that particular address. It might have been just where that stove had been delivered to. And I think back on how much my father had spent too much money, particularly at Christmas.

And so my husband and I keep things very simple with our children as well, so that it just doesn't get out of hand and crazy. So they're very grateful for what they get. And a couple of special things is enough. Nice, I like it that way.

GARY EICHTEN: Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Merry Christmas.

GARY EICHTEN: Back to the phones and other listeners on the line. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi. I'm calling from Minneapolis.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes.

AUDIENCE: And although we do not celebrate Christmas, there is a feeling of joy because seeing the lights and people generally seem to be happy when we go to the malls. And one comment was that, although people are happy and they're all running around, I feel sad that despite this giving and taking season, there are many people who are homeless and people who are looking for food, for work.

And that's the comment that I have. That people are just running around and they just forget people who are in need.

GARY EICHTEN: Right.

AUDIENCE: Yeah.

GARY EICHTEN: It's always hard to keep that in mind, I guess.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, I think so.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks a lot.

AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. Bye bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Bye. Let's take another listener with some thoughts on the Christmas season. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hello, my name is Eric. And I'm a volunteer bell ringer for the Salvation Army.

GARY EICHTEN: Yes, sir.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, and I just called to thank everyone who gives. And tell everyone that today is the last day we'll be out for the season. And we are not doing too hot this year.

GARY EICHTEN: Oh, I talked to Major Rowland earlier this morning, and he said that he's pretty confident now that you folks are going to make that goal.

AUDIENCE: Well, I bet you that he knows that I'm out here to speak.

[LAUGHS]

[INAUDIBLE] But I'd like to just tell everyone that we will be done today at 3:00, and please give what they can and it will be appreciated.

GARY EICHTEN: Let me ask you this before you go. Why is it that you do that? I mean, it's got to involve some long hours, some fairly uncomfortable situations from time to time. Why do you do the bell ringing?

AUDIENCE: Because, well, for one, they've helped my family when I was a child because we were really poor. And we were even on welfare, and it didn't help us enough. And my father was in between jobs a lot because he worked for the railroad. So they helped us when I was young, and I remember that. So I gladly do anything I can for the Salvation Army.

GARY EICHTEN: Well, good luck and Merry Christmas.

AUDIENCE: Yeah, you have a good one too.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks.

AUDIENCE: Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: Back to the phones. Another caller is on the line with us.

AUDIENCE: Hi, Gary.

GARY EICHTEN: Hi.

AUDIENCE: I'm originally from Baghdad. I'm calling you from Minneapolis now. And I lived in South Dakota and Minnesota area from '75 to '85. Went back to Baghdad, participated in little war with Iran, then the last war. Came back early this year.

I felt so much different now, you know? I see things so much different from the '70s and the mid-'80s. People are just not that simplistic anymore. I see more greed. I see more harshness. Let alone the crime. I mean, the crimes are just out of hand.

And I just think the Americans should just kiss the ground they're walking over. And it's greed. I mean, look at the paper today, Tony Troy Aikman, he's making-- I don't know, three point something million or something a year. So much is being held by so by so little. It's just 1% of the country holds a lot of money. And it's greed. Really greed.

People should just be forgiving to each other and just be nice to each other because it's slipping away. I feel it, it's slipping away from them here. It's too bad. The only if they knew how good they have it over here. Especially coming from Iraq, I know that I have a special perspective on freedom and privileges.

It's sad that I don't want to be feel sad on this kind of a day. But that's the way I feel about it.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks for your call.

AUDIENCE: Welcome.

GARY EICHTEN: Let's take a couple more calls here. We have a few more minutes yet. Hi.

AUDIENCE: Hi, Gary. Merry Christmas to you.

GARY EICHTEN: Merry Christmas to you.

AUDIENCE: Well, thank you. I'm just about to make the drive down to my hometown. And as I drive down the main drag and through town to where my parents live. I'll be passing what I think now is probably a submarine sandwich shop. But it used to be a pool hall called Capp's Amusement Center.

And it was the type of place where you'd pay $0.35 for a game of pool. And after each game, old Capp would come over and jam the cigar into his mouth and racked the balls for you. It's kind of a place that you really don't see anywhere anymore, at least not in the Midwest, these days, I don't think.

But I recall that many a Christmas, most of us who hung out there were smokers and drug users occasionally. We were kind of in the margins of local society, I think a lot of us adolescents. And we found the place a real refuge. The holidays, I think, to many of us, were pretty perplexing, complexities of gift-giving and just being around family.

The essence may have eluded many of us. At least six or eight hours of it was usually, the most we could take. And so around 4:00 in the afternoon on Christmas Eve, Capp would open up the pool hall, either Capp or Spud, the manager would be there. And the place would just be flooded with cigarette smoke.

It was a place where all the guys who'd been away at college would turn up and get to see all the old faces again. And the foosball table always had four people playing on it in teams. All the pool tables were filled. It was big hum of conversation, a lot of bells flashing lights ringing on the pinball machines.

And everywhere else, every other establishment in town would be closed up tight, and there wouldn't be a single car on the main drag. And if you happen to pass, you might see a couple of guys standing out in the doorway with their pool sticks in their hands, leaning against the wall.

It was a very comfortable place for many of us. And a great place to retreat when the crush of family commitments became, I guess, not unbearable, but unfathomable.

GARY EICHTEN: Right. And now it's a sandwich shop?

AUDIENCE: Yes, it is. And many of us have been scattered. And I doubt whether I'll really see any of my old friends this weekend as I go down there. But I know Capp is buried dead these past six years or so in the Frontenac Cemetery. And I look back on the period every holiday that was passed in that place, very fondly.

And it seems to me that there's really not any sort of an alternative place. There's not much of a refuge in rural towns anymore. I remember how my grandfather and my father used to break away for a while on Christmas Eve up in Wyndmere, North Dakota, and go down to the Corn Palace or some bar to shoot pool themselves for a while.

And as hard as our parents tried to keep us out of Capp's, many of us knew that they had similar histories themselves. So it was pretty hard. And it's a tradition that seems to be dying somewhat. I'd be interested to hear from somebody out in greater Minnesota, who's got an answer to that this holiday.

GARY EICHTEN: Thanks for your call.

AUDIENCE: Thank you very much. Bye.

GARY EICHTEN: I'd like to I'd like to hear some more from some more people, but unfortunately, we are out of time. It's all the time we have for today's program. I'd like to thank you for listening and for calling today. And maybe we can do this again next year. It was interesting and fun and I think informative for a lot of people.

Thanks for tuning in and calling in on this Christmas Eve. To wrap things up, today our little present to you, a classic from The Temptations.

[THE TEMPTATIONS, "CHRISTMAS SONG"]

(SINGING) Chestnuts roasting on an open fire

Jack Frost nipping at your nose

Yuletide carols being sung by a choir

And folks dressed up like Eskimos

Everybody knows a turkey and some mistletoe

Help to make the season bright

Tiny tots with their eyes all aglow

Will find it hard to sleep tonight

They know that Santa's on his way

He's loaded lots of toys and goodies on his sleigh

And every mother's child is going to spy

To see if reindeer really know how to fly

And so I'm offering this simple phrase

To kids from one to ninety-two

Although it's been said many times, many ways

Merry Christmas to you

They know, everybody knows that Santa's on his way

With lots of toys and goodies on his sleigh

And every mother's child is trying to spy

To see if reindeer really know how to fly

Everybody knows reindeer fly

And so I'm offering this simple phrase

To kids from one to ninety-two

Although it's been said many times, many ways

Merry Christmas, Merry Christmas

Merry Christmas to you

Merry Christmas to you

Merry Christmas to you