I'm Harlan Cleveland. I'm president of the World Academy of Art and Science and former dean of the Hubert H Humphrey Institute at the University. It's a great pleasure to welcome all of you to Minnesota meeting and especially today three days after the coup and the day after it collapsed. I dug out of my files this morning a comment that I think. Is apropos today, even though it was made by the prime minister of Lithuania. On May 3rd 1990 Freedom like a genie that's been let out of the bottle doesn't necessarily want to listen to the dictates of the person who uncork the bottle. I'd also like to welcome the members of our radio audience who will be hearing this program at 9 p.m. This evening on Minnesota Public Radio, which is one of this wonderful communities outstanding amenities. Broadcast of Minnesota meeting are made possible by the law firm of Oppenheimer wolf and Donnelly with offices in Minneapolis. St. Paul and other major cities in the United States and Europe on this special day in the decade of democracy were especially pleased to present Ambassador Rita klimova, the Chief Diplomat in Washington from the Czech and Slovak Republic now the formal name of what with our cultural lag. We still call Czechoslovakia. In this time of drama. It's fitting that Ambassador claim over works for a professional dramatist. The first time that that's Lavo visited the United States still then as a dissident suddenly become interim president. He was asked on public television by Jim Lehrer for his opinion as a playwright. Not as president of Eastern Europe's history Onyx in 1989. It was he replied with unrehearsed Elegance a drama. So thrilling and tragic and absurd that no Earthling could have written it the central lesson of this time of our lives is clear enough. The people not their leaders are doing the leading. Miss klimova is one of those people a prominent dissident in the 1960s. She was hounded out of her university job in the Crackdown of 1968 just 23 years ago yesterday now, she's running Czechoslovakia is most important Embassy. And one of her first jobs must have been to Hound out the old line communist who dominated the embassy until a couple of years ago. Ambassador claim over has commuted across the Atlantic Ocean before in 1938. She and her parents escaped from Hitler to New York City. Where she attended public schools from the third to the ninth grade? And is not as you will see lost her facility in English. Returning to Czechoslovakia in 1946. She earned a doctorate in economics and taught at Charles University there. By 1986 her two children were grown. She retired from the University and became a full-time human rights activist her apartment became a magnet for dissidents seeking hard to find American books newspapers and video cassettes. She herself became a trusted source for foreign reporters visiting in Prague. She was Bill to discuss today the economy of the Czech and Slovak Republic and prospects for us investment there. But after this week's chapter of the drama, so thrilling and tragic and absurd. I'm sure she'll also want to respond to our political curiosity. one final comment about our visitor Unlike most economists. She's also a political phrase maker. She's credited with suggesting the name Civic for civic Forum. What became her country's leading dissident group and unless she denies it here. I will creditor also with that lovely phrase Velvet Revolution to describe the bloodless revolution in which she herself played so influential apart Ambassador Rita came over. Thank you very much know the term velvet velvet was lots of how those he said some Authority and I just translate it into English. So thank you very much for asking me to speak here. I'm very pleased to be in in Minnesota. I have never been here. I was scheduled to come last year with mr. Dubcek, but I was taken ill and I'm very pleased to be here also because there is a very large thank you. There is a very large Czech and Slovak ethnic Community here, and I'm very pleased to be able to meet with them also, and this occasion has provided the opportunity. You asked me to address some of the problems of the last week. I would like to say that I was completely wrong two three days ago because my outlooks were very very pessimistic. I thought whatever the outcome of this it would be bad news that there would be either Civil War of a more General nature than there has been up to now with only local Strife now existing or before last week and that would be the worst case scenario and the and the best case scenario would have been a process of normalization not unlike what we had in Czechoslovakia by the word normalization. We sort of labeled the process which occurred after the Soviet tanks came rolling into Prague just 23 years ago yesterday. When there had been a reform process underway in Czechoslovakia with the Communist party still in place, but within the Communist party and within society as a whole a reform process had developed which had only begun which had only started to really Implement changes and the Soviet leaders thought that that was very dangerous to their ideology and to the subsequent development of the whole Eastern Bloc and they sent the tanks the tanks in and the changes which followed those tanks did not take place in a week or in two weeks, but they took two years as a matter of fact Implement. I was as a university lecturer, I didn't lose my job until 1970 and during those two years. It was a salami tactics or to speak were implemented where piece by piece slowly. But surely all the reforms were scrapped all the people connected with the reforms were fired or kicked out of their jobs and where the old system was not only implemented but with some somewhat sad it was a very rigid and a very very tough system under which to to exist and live and and I thought that in the in the better case that is what would have followed in the Soviet Union because in many ways the Soviet Union does remind me of where we were 23 years ago in 23 years ago. There were many Illusions still in Czechoslovakia that you could reform Socialism or the Communist system could be reformed that we could have the best of both worlds that we could have a market economy yet maintain State ownership of all companies and Hold it hold economy that we could still have a Communist party but have elections in which the Communist Party would buy some magic always win. They were there were a lot of a lot of Illusions about how that how that's socialism with a human face would function and I think that that is where the Soviet many people many of the best people in the Soviet Union still are today. They think that that's a third Road that's neither capitalism nor socialism as we have known it until now that that road is possible we learned with the when the tanks came in and when we thought about it more extensively and and and and read a lot of things to help that thinking along that that is just not possible that that is wishful thinking and I think that that's a that's a Just then then then we we sort of tried to argue with reason. We were also more intimidated by the by the by the tanks. So so in this sense I of course, I'm very happy and very relieved to have been wrong and that there was yet another scenario that it's neither Civil War nor it seems to me I process of so called normalization. But but that what in fact has happened is that democracy has has won the day and that's at the coup has been has been resolutely defeated but still allow me to maintain some of my pessimism because I still think that the Soviet Union has enormous problems before it and no one is more interested in seeing that those problems are solved in a reasonable and and a and gentle way then Czechoslovakia for the simple reason that we are still economically very much tied up with the Soviet Union the Soviet in spite of the political change' has the Soviet Union before our changes in at the end of 89 the Soviet Union represented almost 60% of our foreign trade and you will realize that a country the size of Czechoslovakia and located where it is is very dependent on foreign trade and of that trait as I say a large a very large portion of its was in the Soviet Union, of course that cannot change with political decisions and we are now facing a situation where the Soviets Market has collapsed for us not because for reasons of malice not because they don't want us there but for the simple reason that the Soviet Union is in such economic chaos that they do not have the money To a to pay for our Imports or they they there is even a ruling that anybody who wishes to import any goods from anywhere in the Soviet Union must have a two-year credit and we are not able to provide those two year credits. So that is one reason why we want to we don't want the Soviet Union dissolving into chaos a very strong reason another very strong reason is that most of our oil about 85 percent of our oil comes from the Soviet Union in the sense that that is the only pipeline it has to come from there. Even if it's oil which we buy in Iran or Iraq that oil has to be sent to us through the Soviet Union if we don't want to bring it in and trucks which is very expensive and and risky that oil has to come through that Pipeline and if that pipeline is already now in a advanced state of Physical Decay but it is still working and hopefully it will work for another few years, but should there be major disruption in the united in the Soviet Union because of Civil War because of strife then then the oil just would not come through that Pipeline and we would really be on our knees without without that we would suffer a complete collapse of our economic system. When I spoke to my son in Prague the the second day of the coup. He said everything is normal in Prague. Everybody's behaving normally and there is a they will be a big demonstration which was held yesterday in support of the reform forces in the Soviet Union. He said the only thing that is wrong is that there is no more gasoline because there was a run on gasoline stations consumers were reacting very rationally in that everybody tried to stock up on as much gasoline while There was still some available. But of course nothing has happened yet and we didn't expect anything to happen at least for another couple of weeks. But that is not a very long term framework in which within which you want to work. So as so it is with a big sigh of relief that we have found that there is good news after all and that that the coup has been defeated and that hopefully the Soviet Union will go along the road of peaceful reform of orderly reform and that's the Soviet Market will begin to exist again in the foreseeable in the foreseeable future, even though I still think that things would economically will get worse before they get better so so much for the cool. We have just experienced and thank God it's behind us, but I would I would warn. Anybody who thinks that all problems have been solved now not by far the the problems of they're still in the fact that the hardliners or or people with a with a communist mindset still are very form a very large group of people in the Soviet Union, especially among managers among among high level bureaucrats among the people in the community and Republican Republican level governments. It is a way of thinking that has been theirs for a for over 70 years and I can tell you that we have had that way of thinking only for a little over 40 years and it is very deeply ingrained. And before those 40 years will be for those 50 is before World War II we were a democratic country while the Soviet Union over 70 years ago was a country Didn't have other tourist Russia did not have a democratic tradition. So there will be there will be many problems in the political sphere in the economic sphere and in the way that people think and react and and deal with problems. So I think we will be having this one has not been our last Soviet crisis for the world when I say we I mean the world and especially we in Czechoslovakia. So now let me very briefly. Tell you something about the situation in Czechoslovakia. As you know, the government abruptly the communist government this integrated sort of say it lost its nerve when faced with only 10 days of massive demonstrations, those massive demonstrations started at the moment when it became clear to us that the Soviet tanks were not going to roll in and to be very Frank. I think that moment occurred when we saw on our television screens a very brief shot. It was no more than 30 seconds because television was still there's but there was a 30-second television shot of the Berlin Wall coming down coming down physically of people on top of the wall dancing through rock music and and the wall coming down physically and I think that was a very decisive moment in the thinking of all people in Czechoslovakia. Because everybody realized that the tanks will not roll in and with our own tanks. We thought we could deal and so people started massively to demonstrate as they had never demonstrated in the in throughout the history of Czechoslovakia and the communist government also saw the handwriting on the wall the Berlin wall and and they gave up very quickly more quickly than we had anticipated. And so I knew a new government was put in place and the on January on December 29th, a new president was elected. Our president is elected by the National Assembly by the federal Assembly not directly as in the United States. So a lots of Ava who had been the leader of the dissident movement was elected as president and his major commitment was to lead the country to democratic elections these we Had in June of 1990 and the there were many observers there and none said anything but not had anything but praise for the course of the elections, but the fact of the matter is of course that the election was more a referendum against something than a true election in the sense of choosing a precisely which way we want to go the it was a referendum against the Communists and all the broad Coalition movements of various groups, which were against the Communist system was swept. It was swept into Power because it was very clear that this referendum that this election was not a true election which chooses exactly which in which direction the country will go in the near future the period until the next election was chosen only for two years so that we are now What in June and 92 we will have another election only after two years and by then as was correctly assumed we will have political parties in place and it will be possible to hold an election which will determine just precisely in which which way the country will go the government which which I represent in which is now in power is a government which is firmly committed to three propositions one is a return to Europe bringing the country back into the mainstream of European developments secondly to create a functioning parliamentary democracy and thirdly to implement the economic reform. With that we are going ahead and in relative terms. If you look at the other countries who are going in more or less the same direction. I think we are moving ahead quickly. And in the in the indicated direction, if you take away the relative aspect if you just look at Czechoslovakia as such without comparing it to other countries, there are indeed many problems. There are very many problems and it is much more difficult than anticipated. I belong to a group of people who in contrary to the majority of the country at least thought about these things and consider the possibilities and the Alternatives which we were one day have it wasn't very clear when or if in our lifetimes but we at least consider these things and even all of us have to say I was back now, In the summer after being away for one and a half years and we repeatedly came back to this with my friends that we had all thought. It would be much much simpler than it is. In fact proving to be I think that if there is a something to be learned from all this it is that institutions should not be tampered with lightly that you should think always twice before altering proven ways of doing things where you have decays or even centuries of doing things a certain way. Don't try all of a sudden to quickly change it to something entirely different This concerns the legal system. It is very importantly concerns the economic system. It's very easy to nationalize you take somebody with a machine gun and and you walk into a firm and and you issue a decree and It can be done in weeks. The whole country can be nationalized. It is extremely extremely difficult to 2D nationalize to privatize to find again owners of factories of firms of catering establishments shops and Etc. And the same is true of a lot of other areas of human life. So the let me just very briefly indicate the main thrusts of the economic reform and then I will ask you to ask questions the economic reform has essentially three parts to it. And as I say they are going along according to schedule and from a macroeconomic point of view that means from the point of view of the economy as a whole and its Central agencies. It is going ahead very, well the first thrust of the reform was Deregulation deregulation of our Enterprises which were cut off from their Ministries the ministry's no longer tell their ends of the Enterprises as we speak are still government-owned, but they are no longer told what to produce for what costs at what wages where to deliver where to buy raw materials how much to invest all this command system has been completely dismantled and there is the regulation each company. Although the ownership problem is yet to be solved is on its own more or less like any other company in the world and also prices have been deregulated and they are approaching market prices what with the exception of a few items roughly 10% but 90% of all items are art have been deregulated the Big Bang of deregulation came on. January first nineteen ninety one ninety was spent on on on preparing all this on legislating it on debating it but on January 1st 1991 there was the price deregulation with price increases very sharp price increases on January 2nd. The in January prices went up by about 40% but already in February March April many of the prices started coming down again. It was very valuable experience that consumers found the prices can not only go up but they can also go down and we have been successful in maintaining inflation in check since April the inflated the monthly inflation figures are under two percent. So that is the good news. The second thrust of the of the economic reform is in the field of convertibility of the currency. Our currency is now for all practical purposes fully convertible. The only people it is not fully convertible for our czechoslovak citizens going on holiday abroad there. They cannot change unlimited sums of money, but all firms including czechoslovak forms, of course or primarily czechoslovak firms, but all firms can change their money into anything that they please there is full convertibility from the crown to whatever currency anyone wants and it is also of course for all foreigners. What used to be the black market rate of exchange is today the official rate of exchange. So we have eliminated the black market in in currency and due to the fact that Czechoslovakia before did not have a substantial. Death in contrast to Poland or Hungary or Bulgaria. Wee hours. We had no net debt at all. Because a lot of countries always thought of money the Soviet Union owes has five billion dollars billion. Syria owes us 1 billion dollars. So in fact our we had no net debt, so we were able to borrow now from the international monetary fund and from the World Bank and we are able to maintain that convertibility. So that is also good news and the third the third thrust of the of the of the economic reform probably the most important one and the one which is not that easy to implement as the above-mentioned is is privatization privatization where we are convinced that this government is convinced that the return to a market mechanism cannot be accomplished. If privatization does not take place if there is not a establishment of property rights and and private property. Our privatization scheme has been underway now for since since the beginning of the year, we have so-called small scale privatization where small companies like restaurants boutiques shops in general repair places, like where you have your car serviced and those kind of places are being auctioned directly to the population that is going along very well about between one-third and one-half have already been auctions. The remainder will be auctioned off within within months a lot more complicated problem is so-called large-scale privatization where we have the the big companies and many of which will not find buyers because they're in Such poor State the what we have done now is that the government has the Czech government and the Slovak governments have drawn up lists of companies, which will be privatized in the Czech Republic for instance. There is a list of about Eleven Hundred companies, which will be should be privatized within a year or two. Then another list of another Eleven Hundred companies which are to be privatized between until not later than 3425 years. Then there is a list of about 490 companies which will not be privatized in the foreseeable future. The Czech government has been criticized that 490 is too much but they say that they have they have bitten off more than they can chew with the with the 1100 and plus eleven hundred in the in the in so that's that will remain as it is for the time being and then 49 companies have been designated as having to be shut down out right where you don't have to be a great Economist or accountants to know that they have to do they just have to be closed down for environmental reasons and for reasons because there were running at a loss and these these companies are being changed now into joint stock companies where it is hoped that foreign investors will buy up a lot of equity there are many cases where foreigners come in and buy up 100 percent of equity but not enough such cases and then the remainder will be offered through to the population at large in a system where people will be able to buy for a very small nominal some vouchers something like Monopoly money a very Kind of money and then this these vouchers will be used to bid for Equity to bid for stocks in different stock companies. The project has been legislated and it is in the stage. It is now being prepared. It hasn't actually started yet. And then of course private citizens Pension funds which are now being established because before it was all government Pension funds, but now they are being also privatized and also Pension funds and mutual funds will be investors bidding for bidding for stocks. So that is our private and a similar project. Even if I think in a little slightly less advanced form is also in the Slovak Republic. So that is our privatization and we are going ahead with it. But there are some very unfavorable factors and I will finish with that when all this is being done the most important unfavorable factor is International economic situation. First of all, there is a worldwide recession which is from our Vantage Point not so big but still which which worries people in the Western countries. So the second disadvantage was the war in the in the Gulf which led to increased the difficulties with acquiring oil and buying oil and there was some increase which the price went down but that short-term increase in oil prices really harmed us hurt us very badly and the third most important of all these disadvantages from an international economic point of view is the complete breakdown of the Soviet market and of and also the the The Disappearance for our practical purposes of the market in what used to be East Germany, which was a soft. Could was based on barter and they bought from us we bought from them all for soft currency. That is no longer true. If we want to buy something from a German company. It has to be paid for in which marks there is only one kind now. So so all this and the collapse of the Soviet Market, I have already mentioned at the beginning of my speech. So so we are in a very difficult situation now with the European communities the we have negotiations going on for so called associate membership. This is something that we are very dissatisfied with associate membership is a great thing, but it pres places stress on cultural exchange on environmental projects, which is great. I am the last person to under estimate the importance of ecologically projects, but the main thing His access to West European markets is not being dealt with by these Association negotiations. And that is what we really need. We really very badly need access not only to West European also to American markets, especially in textiles and wearing Apparel in agricultural products and in steel and those are the three areas which are very highly protected where there are stringent rules about the Import and Export of these these things and we have found a great deal of sympathy in the Bush Administration things have been in spite of the fact that the volume of trade between Czechoslovakia and the United States is very small. So the West Europeans are saying it's easy for the Americans to make these concessions because we're talking about very small volumes, but still the the we are learn we have been told that steps will be taken. Them and that in textiles, especially which seemed hopeless a couple of months ago that that's there will be that we will be able to increase our quota to the United States as only two or three months ago. There was still warehouses in New York full of our our wearing apparel which couldn't enter the United States because of the quota but that is now being dealt with I hope in a in a progressive way, but at least the issue has not been resolved yet in the in the European communities which are crucial to us. So so we have found ourselves in a situation where a government which is committed to free trade and which has to privatization and to a liberal economic policy is running into and through protectionism and and import quotas but I must say that a week ago when the Cool first became became known there were a lot of reaction saying well now we can't invest in the Soviet Union. We can't help the Soviet Union President Bush immediately made that commitment. So now we will be paying more attention to you. So but I hope that now that the coup has been defeated which is a good thing. Absolutely as we all I'm sure agree on that that nevertheless that we will will find more response in this question of access to markets Czechoslovakia is not asking for Aid there is some some aid from on the part of the US government in the form of technical assistance educational assistance, which is a very good thing and Aiden institution building which is a very good thing very positive. We are very glad to have it but it is not the issue. The issue is a System markets. Thank you. not on thank you Ambassador. Klimova. We have a first question here from Jim Bond thrown from the Canadian console Madam Ambassador during your talk. You mentioned a return to Europe. And my question really concerns what Europe for the past 45 years people have tended to think in terms of east Europe West Europe. Do you see the re-emergence of Central Europe as something more than a region? And in that regard we can recall the during the days of the Habsburg Empire the Czech lands certainly worthy the engine that drove that Empire both industrially and and to a large degree culturally. And in fact, there were a number of good reasons why Mozart should have preferred and did prefer Prague to Vienna. Can you see Prague again becoming an international Hub on this? Well, thank you. That's it's a very good question because when we say return to Europe, what do you mean? What do we mean? In fact we meant a year and a half ago. When we first started saying that we meant a return to Western Europe, we have always thought of ourselves. We are geographically more Western than Austria and we have always we like to think of ourselves that to be more precise. We like to think of ourselves as part of the part of the European European contact. Somebody was in a discussion on on the East sea and its future somebody was saying that each of the capitals of the 12 sec countries had at one time in its history been the capital of Europe and I didn't have the opportunity to say that also Prague was in the in the in the 14th at the end of the 14th and the beginning of the 15th century was the the capital of Europe. We also have that distinction. We had the emperor Charles the fourth and then other other persons who were really European Statesman. But Regional cooperation is we realize now very important and that we will probably be joining Europe together with Poland Poland and Hungary this this Regional cooperation is very important and very difficult at the same time because we're talking of centuries really of centuries of animosities and in spite of the fact that our governments now have every wish to cooperate and coordinate in as a matter of fact, it is still a very difficult thing to do the borders which exists do not take into account the large minorities Southern Slovakia is the majority there are the are the hungarians. There is a very sizable Hungarian minority and and there are other problems, but I think we are making major Headway on that now this Russian scare the Soviets care has led to more cooperation between our three countries as far as Prague becoming a cultural center again in Europe. Well, yes. Yes, we hope so, but that will take time. I'm afraid that will take time Park is a city of a million in many ways It's a Wonderful City because nothing much has changed their you know, if you've seen the film I'm a dose by which every American director of Czech origin made about Mozart. He found that Prague today looks much more like Vienna in the 18th century than then Vienna itself does I mean Prague has that has been preserved that way which is very nice for visitors, but not so nice for us who live there and and it's it will require a lot of modernization estimates tell you that there is the capacity for hotels is we only have 50 percent of the whole As we should have so we definitely hope to become a tourist center and Cultural Center, but it will take a little time and and hopefully some foreign investments Ambassador. We have a question now from Barry night. Ambassador the promise of change Always precedes the actual fact of change in the question. I have concerns how steadfast is the population currently. Are you seeing any signs of an erosion of support for the government? Because situations like are in the Soviet Union are are they occurring? There are foods getting to the population or are you finding that there might be weaknesses in the Coalition that governs currently Well, the answer is yes the that we are finding problems. And the there has been an erosion of support for the government. Of course, I would say not for a not as far as food is concerned on the contrary. We have a bumper crop and we have we are our introduction to market economies economics also includes the fact that we have agricultural surpluses. So food is not the problem and from a consumer point of view. I would say that the situation is improved because all sorts of luxury items like yogurt from West Germany or or wearing apparel items from from all over are readily available shampoo from West Germany, which before you had to bind the foreign currency shop now is available in every drugstore if you have the money and of course these foreign foreign products are expensive, but from a consumer point of view that I don't think there is a problem what What is the problem and what is going to be the problem is unemployment unemployment and lack of job security but that is part of what the whole thing is about an economy cannot function properly if there is no labor mobility and if there is not some unemployment even in Good Times there has to be some marginal pool of Labor which is available for the changing needs of Enterprises. So this lack of security and of course increases in price we have now had a sharp increase in the price of heat because it was heavily subsidized that price and one of The Condemned preconditions of any loan from the World Bank is that the cost of fuel in general and specifically he have to be the cost the price has to reflect the cost which it didn't and has this has led to Huge waste where we have been consuming much more heat and energy and fuel than comparable economies in the in West Germany or Austria with the same natural conditions. And and but what was Private to private Enterprise so there have been sharp price increases now families their cost of living has gone up substantially and no job is secure today. The unemployment is still negligible in American terms. It's still around 5% when I when I say to Americans 5% they say what what's your problem? We have we have much more but we are going to have more and for us even 5% was non-existent before so so those are the problems and then the Euphoria anybody who has been to Czechoslovakia will repeatedly during the one and a half years since the change will tell you that there has been a Euphoria is gone and that many People are apprehensive but there is still at least in the Czech lands in the 2/3 where check is spoken there still seems to be in the polls indicate this also there is a commitment to Market reform people are aware that things will have to be economically worse before they get better that this transition to a market is not something that you just do from one day to the next and they are committed to that. There are they are still committed to that objective. The situation is more complicated in Slovakia where for various historical reasons people are less committed to that objective. And that is one of the I'm sorry to say one of the things which are pulling pulling the country apart, but I find I have found in Washington that American sometimes confused. I can't blame them. It's a complicated area but they sometimes confuse Slovakia with Slovenia. I'm sure since you knew you were going to lunch with somebody from Czechoslovakia that that you don't confuse the but I would like to say that Slovakia even if we do splits or even if they have a much larger degree of autonomy than they do now. I think that the it will be done in an orderly nonviolent fashion. I cannot envisage by any stretch of the imagination hostilities breaking out on the Yugoslav pattern. I think it will be done in an orderly fashion and it will not have a direct bearing on foreign investments for instance. So so so so definitely the Coalition has broken of Civic Forum, which was the the movement which came into which was elected into power in the election of nineteen. Ninety has split has split into at least three three factions one is very small Social Democratic faction. And the two major factions are one slightly right of sensor and the other slightly left of center. Although they probably wouldn't agree with what I'm saying if they want one of them were here but that my reading is that they are very very slightly to the left of center everybody claims that they are the center. So it has split into two parties and there are a number of other parties coalition's will be formed and in that sense. The situation is complicated but there is still the the government is holding there has been no government crisis. No. General crisis so far and the majority is still committed to carrying out the reform. Thank you your master. You were listening to Rita klimova czechoslovak Republic ambassador to the United States peaking to the Minnesota meeting on the station's of Minnesota Public Radio now have a question from the Attorney General of Minnesota. Skip Humphrey. Madam Ambassador I had the privilege of being in your country for three days last year just in Prague and I just have to commend that if anyone here has a chance to go you ought to go. It is a beautiful city and wonderful people. I do have a question your comments about privatization are very interesting in the process of privatization is the government considering and looking at how to make certain that the marketplace is fair and competitive in this country. We have antitrust laws. We have licensing regulations to see that the environment and other standards are maintained we have laws that protect consumers. Is there a process that also includes those considerations to see that the marketplace is kept open and fair. Well, you have touched a very very neuralgic point. I think you call a very a very painful question. Um, if I'm to be quite Frank, we are only at the beginning of establishing this there is really a very small very little understanding I found I find of what is ethical in business. We spoke about this with some of the gentlemen. I was having breakfast with today. There is only a beginning I give you an example. We are having these auctions for small-scale firms and there are clear cases when even if you're on the outside looking in that where the market is being rigged it with these people get together in an auction room and they have talked to each other before and they have made that's collusion in by by American Standards that's collusion. We not only do not have a law on collusion, but we don't even have a a notion and and there are even people who will say, but that's part of the market they can talk to each other outside. And rig the bidding procedure now, so it is very people who defend the market who think it's A Great Notion thinks that this is part of it. And so and to establish business ethics standards is still something which is I'm afraid lies before us and I think this is in the United States, you have the Notions at least much more developed and the legislature much more developed than in Europe in general. I mean in Germany, they don't have the very stringent anti-bribery laws which which you have not even on the books, but there is at least some notion of it. Whereas we are. We are even further back than the rest of Europe much much further back. So this is something which we have to work for and and I think this is something where American lawyers and American businessman. Americans in general could could have a significant role to play. Thank you Ambassador. We have a question now and I'm going to let this gentleman introduce himself. My name is Big E Ibaka's Madame Ambassador. I'm glad to hear your commitment to the environment. What about federal government? Does the government share your commitment in economic program? The environment is barely mentioned and this is serious problem, which will limit the economic restructuring and put the development and then another question. I may ask are you not afraid of political implications of Velvet Revolution it we were generous in Poland that it went so easy for you. We were working hard ten years and you made it within 10 days. What are the political implications of that process? Let me first address the problem of the environment there is I must tell you there is not unity in the in our government Minister of Finance. Klaus has said that in his opinion the environmental issues are sort of the whipping cream the whipped cream on the cake or the icing on the cake, but their first has to be a cake on which to put the icing and important as environmental issues. Maybe the first issues are of economic reform of getting the reform going others will very loudly disagree with him and say that it is the environment is a life and death issue. Our environment is very devastated as I'm sure you know extremely devastated and that's what good is what good will it a successful economic reform be if there's if everybody's sick and and and the environment has has further. Tia rated our government is earmarking circum funds for the environment. There is a much more stringent and more forceful cold of legislation concerning the environment the problem under communism was that the age of the agency which was supposed to oversee a Environmental Policy was the same agency which was running the economy. And I mean, you cannot over see yourself really if you're in the United States, it was General Motors who or private companies who were who would be the only ones involved in the environment. They also probably wouldn't do a great many things, but they have to contend with public opinion and they have to contend with with consumer groups and they have to contend with governments at various various levels, which are independent of businesses. So we think that many things are Being done for the environment simply by separating the government from the from the economy. The economy should do its thing and the government should police the environment in a certain sense. So that is one one one answer to my question to your question. I see I have very little time. The the other question is remind me. Yes, the fact that it was so quickly. You're absolutely right. We had it's very easy again as many times in history when compared to Poland and you're absolutely right. The poles were the pioneers and the ones who did who had to who suffered for for more than 10 years and it the negative implications of that is that people have most people haven't even thought of of the change let alone how to behave in the change. And so public opinion is really there are a lot of problems which you in Poland. I think don't have because everybody is very clear. But with in Czechoslovakia, there is the danger that a sizable minority will say, well it wasn't really so bad under the Communists. Whereas I don't think anybody would say that in Poland. Thank you.