The time now is 12 noon and this portion of Monday's. Midday is made possible by Cooperative power providing electricity for 17 member cooperatives serving West Central and Southern, Minnesota. We here now the comments of Minnesota Congressman Bill frenzel as he spoke to an audience in St. Paul recently on the topic the foreign policy of the new Administration friends. I use the occasion to address a wide range of issues then just foreign policy you covered trade matters as well rental was first elected to congress in 1971 before that. He served as a state legislator for 6 years bill frenzel is the ranking minority member of the House budget committee. And he also serves on the house Ways and Means Committee rental is considered an expert on trade matters and has been Congress is representative to the current round of talks on gas also known as the general agreement on trade and tariffs Renzo gave his remarks to a meeting of the Minnesota International Center here is 3rd District, Minnesota Congressman Phil frenzel. The light is to be with you today. I have a little feeling that I may be here under some false pretenses. I recall in the first letter of that. I got from Bill Rogers. This engagement he said it by February we would certainly know the policies of the new Administration and it would be easy for me to communicate them to you that is proved to be slightly an accurate and as so we tried to look into the glass and see what the in store for us particularly in the foreign policy failed. We find that it is a little cloudy if we take the general rule and it is that this Administration will at least start walking down a similar path that to that taken by the previous administration and the differences and departures that we see from the Reagan path for the Bush Administration are ones that are at least somewhat a matter of speculation and before I coming here. Drake I was reviewing a mr. Baker's testimony when he was confirmed and I would say that they at least in one respect the James Baker seems very much like George Shultz and that is that he keeps his cards very close to his vest and that he does not reveal a lot about what he is thinking I even when I asked directly and so much of what I'm going to talk about today is going to be at least they can be could be characterized as a speculation one of the trends that I think is it going to continue Is the is the important Trend that that us commercial activities abroad are coming no more and more into the ascendancy and the they are going to be more important in setting General foreign policy. And then they have in the past previously at least when I came to Congress are commercial activities did not drive any policy and the jail political and strategic considerations always swamped commercial consideration over the years. There has been a trending in the other way appreciably coming into being in the Carter years particularly when they foreign commercial service was set up. And and the further I being strengthened, I think in the in the Reagan years although grudgingly because very important Hallmark of the Reagan foreign policy was strategic and National Security considerations. And now as you look at the people that George Bush has surrounded himself with and as you look at their Direction and his Direction, I think one predict say another pick-up in the pace of of the increase in the importance of our commercial relations, and they not necessarily A a decrease but say a lessening effect in our overall policies of of those that some of those strategic considerations now the Keystone of our commercial efforts abroad in The next four years is going to be the completion of the Oracle around in the gap. We have a brand new person a managing that efforts not brand new to most of you who follow their careers the cabinet officer in a previous administration, but I'm Carla Hills is the new US trade representative and she will be picking up play theaters baton on in the Uruguay round and we don't expect to lose much momentum as far as Ambassador Hills begins to come up to speed. She will be of course. I greatly assisted by the fact that played in the eye to her predecessor has moved over in the cabinet will remain across the cabinet table from her and will be a great help to her and just as in George Bush we had are in charge shows. We had a splendid The Economist. So do we have a practicing Economist in the form of Jim Bakker? Do understand our trade negotiations in our trade policy is very carefully. So she's going to have a heavy assist there despite the the recent on bilateral the United States remains committed to Mall of the lateral send and Uruguay around is the is the key piece also in our commercial interests abroad we will be following very closely developments in Europe 92. I'm going to talk about those a little later but they are enormously a significant and evidence of what is happening all over the world as hell tour course is also going to have to look after the u.s. Canadian agreement which we think is is a wonderful agreement. I heard principal cause Sociate down the Tariff of particularly aware Industries. And thankfully we have some on both sides of the Border want to see their tariff rates, which are declining on a on a 5-year are 10 year cycle to accelerate that the client or perhaps eliminate him and there is probation within that agreement for those I'm going to go see a shins second interest will be to preserve the arbitration system which we have to wear not preserving anything cuz we don't have one yet. But we have recently appointed the people who are going to make the decisions for for dispute settlement under that agreement and she laughs see that that system works. She has a third or rather a fourth important the duty I think and that is that she has to manage the trade Act of 1988. That the trade act started out to be Vera Lynn play protectionist some of the teeth were taken out of it and some of the poison taken out of the teeth with Romaine nevertheless. It remains a threat and there are certain mandated actions required by that act or apparently required by that act which can be by the president under certain circumstances that have to be handled with kid gloves. And I think that she will be up to it. I think she can keep us out of trouble but there is a danger of retaliation then the minor trade Wars under that trade act that has to be avoided if we go back to the Strategic which I think is important. I don't mean that it's less important. It'll be less the driver of policy is the way I really should have phrased it and part of that is because there we are. Evidence in Greater concern about our commercial difficulty that enormous trade balance what part of it is also because there is perceived that this is the time when pressures are beginning to ease and the principal confrontation that the world has between the US and the USSR that the after they've negotiation the INF treaty after the beginnings of negotiations on the half a dozen other tree tree has the most prominent but it is the fastest moving or even the most important that looks like a fertile field for us and it looks like that can be continued. Certainly President Bush and his closest advisors in this regard School bgm. Baker's responsibilities are trying to move ahead and to exploit to those opportunities which now I seem to be before us. And that have a Uso astute observers of the international scene. I think I understand that the changes that are brought in the world including those in the USSR RF are at this point probably irreversible. It is still not given to us to be able to predict the intensity and the direction of those changes but the changes are going to continue and and it is up to us to see that we use what changes are there to do improve the security of the world and the to improve the prosperity the world and I think this Administration has strong feelings about that and continues to move forward Afghanistan withdrawal is going to be complete We are following the improvements in Angola and then Namibia. They got some of the great opportunities for the future would seem to be in Central America and the sum of the solutions to those problems may be in Moscow and and we will look this Administration is going to continue to move in in those Direction there appear to be a new opportunities in Vietnam and Cambodia particularly Cambodia, and I want to talk about that a little bit later with respect to strategic efforts station is going to support amendments to the CBI which which are partly a humanitarian partly a commercial probably most of all, they are strategic because that we cannot have a continuing a grinding disadvantage in the Caribbean. It is always going to be unstable and less so we improve The Human Condition down there rivian Basin initiative was an interesting start and nobody wants to be little it but it needs a great Improvement. And I think we are going to move in that direction and same time. We got some other areas in other parts of the world and notably the Philippines that are also going to need that special support. As you know, there have been very few areas of the budget that have been reduced over the years much to my dismay one area that has man has been the area of United States foreign aid, and we have got ourselves to a point now or we can provide some aid for Israel and some for Egypt and some for the treaty Nations and some for the poorest of the poor and then we run out. And we are going to have to look at that component of our budget than the and stop using it. Well, actually there are two areas of Housing and that and that foreign aid. I really the only two areas of our budget that have paid any of the price for the shrinking of the rate of growth. I can't call it a reduction. In the Strategic area. I think we have to talk a little bit about the alliance. This Administration is anxious to preserve what it perceives as a very strong NATO and it will continue to do so there is increasing pressure from the Congress to indulging what is referred to as burden-sharing that is to let somebody else pay the bill other than us. We're getting tired and indeed we are we are carrying a heavy load than anyone else on the other hand. We have have had interesting contributions from the other members of The Alliance which we cannot the depreciate and we will have to Simply work that problem very gradually. Looking the other direction that strategically Japan has been our principal Ally to the west and our relationships with Japan while they are somewhat troubled commercially. I have been strong and they are continuing to improve as you know prime minister to catch that perhaps a a lame animal himself is now visiting with President Bush and we think those two meetings are important President Bush world of cars go to two former Emperor hirohito's funeral and we will continue to improve the ties with the with Japan. I need to talk about the multinational agencies just a bit then when you look at the UN relationship to the United. Is our vice versa really we have had a. Of 15 years in which it has been. Fashionable to look down the ones knows that the United Nation and I think we're going to come out of that ear up with the former ambassador to the UN George Bush as president of the United States and I think we would have come out of it anyway because of you and it's beginning to look like a more manageable agency or instrumentality than it has in the past. The the art of the United States bashing what used to be practiced with great Ingenuity and scale there is beginning to wither away a bit then and we're beginning to be a nerd against those the insults and I don't really care so much anymore, but also are there seems to be a real feeling among the members and ambassadors to the United Nations that it ought to get some work done. Got to stop hiring all the nephews and brothers and Lawn and really put his house in order and do a job how we are going to see the United Nations playing an important role in peacekeeping at in various parts of the world. We are seeing some of that in the Middle East but we're going to see it in several areas of Africa and with a little like I mentioned Cambodia earlier, I think there's some real possibilities for for a withdrawal from Cambodia and they had some kind of un peacekeeping operation there. That means of course that the United States going to have to pay its bills in the in the United Nations, which we have not been doing and where we are very far behind them. And as a matter of fact many of the multilateral agencies have also been purple hearted victims of that reduction in our foreign aid budget. We are behind in our payments to the o a c d to the Gap to the World Bank and the IMF and to all of the multilateral Development Bank. I look for the Bush Administration to catch up. Those are not popular expenditure areas. They are particularly not popular expenditure areas when you may be reducing somewhere else probably not reducing in real terms, but certainly reducing from the aspirations of the event officially areas of other spending areas and never the last I think you're going to see the Bush Administration pushing for those increases because I think I think we have to catch up. We are beginning to look like an international hooligan. Even the USSR made up its arrearages at the UN and while there are some down-and-out countries who are not up to date. We are the only anywhere near industrialized country. Not that are taking its share of the load. Think of the other thing that is most important that I want to talk about today before you have a chance to talk is that the world is changing at a rate that is very hard for all but those of you who follow these events very carefully to really understand when George Bush said there's a fresh Breeze blowing there may be in this country. But the rate of change is is absolutely staggering and the rest of the world and you can see some of those changes and be aware of them. But when you get out there it is it is really frightening. We have seen the changes that are occurring in the USSR. We have commented on them. Not sure that we understand them, but about all we can say is that they continue at a growing pace and again hard to predict but moving very fast if you move into East You got the same thing happening in the Warsaw Pact country. You have people talking about political parties and hungry and not going to jail. Are you have an alternate movements so-called in nearly nearly all but in a number of East Bloc countries that the change there is is overwhelming if you move into Europe, you would think one had exhume the body of Jean Monnet because not only are we talkin about the Perfection of the Customs Union economic Integrity to the European Community, but in every capital of Europe, are you have a literally little Sal's who are talking about the ultimate political union and that's pretty strong medicine for for those of sovereign nationalist countries over there, but it may not occur. You're very soon or or at all. But there is talk there is movement and you go to the outside of your app and the people who are not in the EC a talking about accession to the ECU. It is not impossible that before the the end of this of this Century. You might have a Warsaw Pact nations in the AC. What did the movement is churning and I think the Euro 92 decision which is kind of snuck up on most Americans is so it's perhaps the greatest evidence of of the change which has become more and more acceptable to the world and is being represented or is being observed a commercially strategically and in every other way and and and tells us something about the future at least tells us that they didn't go to be the same as what we Been through in the meantime it is it is pretty obvious that socialism has lost the Vitality that it had in the world and though I laid may not be dead though. It is so pretty badly wounded and you see everywhere particularly in the so-called non-market economy. Some people swearing Oaths of fealty on the altar of capitalism and that and that talking about free markets and Market activities. If you find this in Moscow and frog Beijing and the and wherever the PRC was the first to show us what it happened. We had been told by our academicians over the years that the PRC was going to affect all the rest of Asia and we we woke up about 10 years ago and found that the rest of Asia had infected the PRC and it continues to Lurch forward to and it's the temperature to liberalize. But in the meantime the same thing is happening. In the other non market economies of the world and while they are not willing to renounce the titles and the trappings of socialism. They are doing everything they can to turn to the market for greater directions to their system which makes greater opportunities for us and I don't hear refer to political opportunities. I referred opportunities to strengthen a relationship to make for a more stable world. Some of those changes have been the enormously helpful for to ameliorate problems with human rights that have plagued this for a long time. I don't want to prattle on here too long, but I must say that the Bush Administration comes into power at a time of enormous opportunity. It will grasp some of those opportunities and then make good on them as well. Fumble some other ones. It's a little difficult to see exactly how it's going to work. I think it is. However boys to try to take advantage of some of these principal changes that I have been talking about and it has been giving evidence that it is going to take advantage. I guess one of the important assignments that has already been announced. Is that of Ambassador Pickering at the United Nations? Play regarded professional and he moves into an area where the US has been standoffish or or Raley. Not very friendly to the you and that's going to change as I indicated earlier. We have only one other major announcement and that is the appointment of my garment cost to Tokyo. Mike again is a longtime highly-regarded professional who will be very good Japanese. Of course, I would prefer a face card or why did Ronald Reagan George Shultz are cap Weinberger? I think they have a first-rate first-rate Ambassador. And I think you're going to see some of the others coming up now now that the secretary baker has been confirmed and I think that's going to confirm our suspicions that that this Administration means business and understands that we live in the in the world that is becoming more and more integrated. If you are in business understand that that's sort of happened overnight under our noses not as a matter of plant and and politically the changes may follow just as quickly with that. I'm going to suspend and And that give you a chance to be a part of the program and that anybody that wants to ask any questions or deliver any sermons? Now's the Time you've been listening to 3rd District Republican Congressman Bill friends all he spoke recently in St. Paul to a meeting of the Minnesota International Center, where is topic was the foreign policy of the new Administration frenzel took a number of questions from the audience a listener wanted to know what should be expected from the group that is studying ways to bring discipline to the federal budget process in Forever by the National Economic commission a group of 14 citizens and leaders to provide a blueprint to reduce the deficit and not interrupt the economic growth of the United States events have overcome the National Economic time. When a president did not give a high priority to deficit-reduction as a result of the Congress did not have to give a high priority and saw the commission was created to give some promise. To the problem and I think the commission has been the only game in town up until the election when the election came along. It did not completely new to the National Economic commission, but it took a lot of the zip out of it the public began to concentrate on the president and on the new Congress and the National Economic commission became less of an ID at same time. We found ourselves sued by such nefarious characters as the Wall Street Journal on the Washington Post and Ralph Nader and we were forced to carry on our meetings in the sunlight of openness. And if you've ever tried to negotiate the budget policy with people ranging from the left to the right at the Spectrum, you probably will understand that we could not Negotiate nor come to a consensus agreement under the the strict interpretation of the open meeting law. I call your attention the fact that Alan Greenspan did the very successful Social Security Commission under the same law only. He wasn't suit he had all closed meeting and was very successfully recent base closing commission operated the same way. We are forced into the sunlight really are not going to be able to give a a significant report. We will however probably have some strong recommendations on process Improvement. I saw that when we have the deficit reduction agreement between the president and Congress, there will be at least a better feeling that that that we will actually be able to achieve that which we are pledged to a cheap George raised the question in connection with with the concern of the NATO ministers about the reduction of the USA. That are trade mallinson and our external debt is a matter of concern all over the world. Not just in the United States. We are the world's largest debtor. We make a Brazil Mexico Argentina hungry and Korea look like pikers and we obviously have to do something as a result of that the $5 said to deficits and that principally generated by our by our federal fiscal deficit. Oh, we are at large importers of foreign Capital importing around a hundred and fifty billion dollars a year give or take a few bit it and we need that to to pay our bills here both of our government and for our private investment without that already kind of me falters other countries of the world would like to see some of those that I Investments go elsewhere. I'd like to see a lot of that money going into third world developing countries were where they really need investment than the and job creation. The best thing we can do for our trade deficit me about the world security if the United States does not have a security kind of me. Everybody is nervous about that. I believe that between the present the new Congress we are going Set the countries. course on a path to eliminate the deficit by the end of the first Bush term speaking optimistically of the second one charge already. But if we do, I think we have an excellent chance to preserve the economic growth of the country to reduce the trade deficit and to make the world a much more secure place and and allow some of those foreign investments to I hope some of them continue to come here but also to go to other places, where are the need in terms of a human condition is is greater than it is here, but I think we're going to make it this year. I've been a pessimist for five years. I am an optimist this year and I think that is going to be an important step in in our Foreign Relations. For instance when we go abroad commercial and we say to the Japanese open up your markets tomorrow. And I say well we've opened up our Market a bit and America is an aggressive enough and it's sales. And by the way, as long as you have that big deficit as long as you have such a low savings rate in your country companies are always going to be at least somewhat the last competitive and and so you got to cure yourself before whatever we do is going to be very important in terms of the overall ratios. And while we don't concede that the patient begin forthwith with more openings. We have a lot of self-inflicted wounds and if we could cure them it would be a great help. So I think we're in we're in better shape and it's going to be painful. Everybody's going to hate everybody else. Tell me you're going to say that some didn't sacrifice enough and some were asked to sacrifice too much. I never the last time I think something is going to be done sooner the better. I really believe the budget Summertree is not going to be completed probably until early as September and that is simply because that's when the debt ceiling that has raged and the gramm-rudman that begins to cut and and then it forces that negotiators and I saw him here were talking about George Mitchell. Genright the George Bush to make a decision. Otherwise some great catastrophe Falls like you close down the government or whatever. The question was that the someone has indicated who was that again? Ron Kramer has a distinguished the doctor Kramer who runs the Department of Commerce is activities in this area is indicated that he thought the foreign commercial service is being cut across the fair of its activities and it's not kind of silly because I don't we need him out there in the answer is yes, I think however what Ron is talking about is the Is the Commerce Department's attempt to make those reduction and so far the Congress has not allowed that to take place. We have felt that they commercial service and needs a little more supportive rather than a little less and as part of of every Department of government fees ir-2 2 urge to reduce its own spending. They all look for ways to make changes Department of Commerce has a place that lower value on the on the work of the foreign commercial service than Congress does and I hope that helps at the new secretary of Commerce will change that Trent. But as far as I know we have not made cutbacks we've had problems, of course as the dollar has declined been a little harder to attract people of confident Americans to work abroad and foreign commercial service has been one of the casualties of the of the dollar declined particularly and in Europe. And we've never built the that group up to where they should have been but they it's it's still going along and I I do not presuppose any major Cuts in the foreign Commercial Services and another audience member who wanted to know if relations with Vietnam might be normalized this year as has been suggested recently by a government official in Vietnam. Yes, but the same kind of thing a lot of talk nothing formal. But my guess is that the relations are going to be normalized over there when the when the Vietnamese if the Vietnamese continue to take a positive attitude toward their neighbors and the demonstrate. World cooperation then so far that I think eventually they're going to be normalize weather's going to be this year next year when it is I can't tell you it's a lot depends on Cambodia. A listener who had tried to distribute and license a video tape and South Korea complain to frenzel of the roadblocks to overseas trade which discourages Americans from doing business abroad. It is an important question and American businessman whenever they go abroad that feel put-upon and think they are being denied what they think is National treatment and sometimes those feelings are Justified then and sometimes it Sometimes they are not and certainly the market you talked about. Korea is can hardly be described as an open market and we beat down the Walls they're wanted a time. But I think here again, you have to understand that this was country. In which our policies were dictated by strategic consideration and desire to keep a little country free over there. And so we've allowed them a fair amount of access to our Market. But remember under the textile agreements in and steal they are as and other things there are times that in the last 20 years when when 90% of their Imports were operating in our country out under some sort of stricture. So it is not that they have had free and unrestricted access to our Market, but certainly a great deal more than we do. There's we are now I'm becoming increasingly impatient with Cory at the same time. We are unwilling to unsettle the beginnings of a of a fragile democracy and that you have a very difficult political situation in Korea. I wish we don't want to upset which caused us to pull back from our demands about Are the Koreans accepting more beef into their Market than that caused us to go different ways toward insurance and banking because they are less politically sensitive to continue to do that. We're going to push where we can push without trying to a topple over the country and and unsettle it. There's always going to be complaints that the that the reciprocity is not quite perfect and and probably a lot of those complaints will be justified but keep bringing them in general and we'll work the problem. I from my side it is the other way around I go to these countries and say why don't you get some Americans in here and they make some changes then I come back and say the Americans get out there and sell something near I can say not he'll know. I I'm already internationalized. I sent a Salesman the Winnipeg last week. The blunt fact is that a few dozen American companies do almost all of our exported and almost all of our overseas work and we have wonderful play Confident American firms who are too busy doing other things to worry about International Market. Sometimes that's the right decision. Sometimes it may not be at the people like Ron Kramer break their pick every day trying to get people to go abroad and to be more active. And so if you're one of them, I hope we bring your bring your film in and then I'll take it with me the next time I go and I'll sell some another audience member expressed in patients with four in industrialized nations who criticized the United States economic policies and Military strategy The Listener noted that this country is a far larger customer of foreign Goods than any other country in the world. But I like you make an excellent point and it is one that we continue to make with AC in Japan. The last figure I saw looked like we were pretty close to taking 60% of all the manufactured product of the third world. And I and I don't think that's bad thing. I think it is. The bad part about that statistic is the nobody else is taking product. It is not a bad thing that we take product it is that you pan in Europe take almost nothing from the third world and the bands will sit around piously it tell you about their lomei convention, which is a fraud as far as having any general applicability because it simply doesn't put Goods into the EC except to the direct link countries that are covered. So yeah, and you know, the same thing is true of of agricultural policies, which tend to hurt third world countries. No reason. Why the European should have a wreck the sugar markets of the world and the and caused a lot of disrepair in the Philippines and then the Caribbean but that consumers are going to pay the subsidies to grow German sugar beets that they're going to make life very difficult for poor Farmers the world over that is a very important consideration in the military is a little harder. We accepted the the policeman's are all in the world after the war because there was nobody else to take it. And now we have a man fully shoulder that burden over the years we are now paying. About twice the rate for sand of GNP for military as our NATO partners and about six times the rate of Japan on the other hand that if you go around the world, you don't find a lot of people that are anxious for us to rearm Japan particularly in the Far East and if you go to Europe and begin to talk about burden-sharing late, they want to talk about quality burden-sharing and they want to talk about the cost of the service over here. We decided we're not going to have a draft because we're too good for that. And that's something wrong with that. We fought a war we didn't like in kandar draft. Almost all the countries of Europe use conscription and even the unionized are Mason. Sweden Holland do very well in our NATO exercise is usually better than than ours do and it is very hard for us to to say that they're not doing a pretty good job and this and that their troops are not a big part of it. They also say our countries are whole countries themselves are hostages in the game of a confrontation between the US and the USSR if anything happens there where the 50-yard line and they don't get to you until it's the goal line. I think it's very hard to weigh the equities when we begin to discuss that so I think all of us would agree that we'd like to have more from Europe and Japan it is there is a great deal of disagreement about the quality of the contribution and about the In about the nature of the contribution for instance, if we decide that we want your pants to do some more. What do we want them to do in a week? We push them through the one-percenter GNP of barrier that had existed over there for a long time. But they're all we've got for them and it's largely Andy submarine. Kind of role in which they took on a little bit more when we got into the Persian Gulf problem and we began to to take the Persian Gulf. They took a little more of the Pacific and how much more do we do? It is also true that not counted in that Japanese portion is there is a huge amount of money for Based Services as a as a trade man. I used to read gnash my teeth through five president. We would just get Japan by the throat and get them to where they had to admit. They're going to make some trade concessions to the United States a prime minister would come to the United States and it could be any one of six talk to an American president and it could be any one of four or five and the Prime Minister would say one. Mr. President. We like to give you another half a billion and Based Services for Japan, but it's hard for us to do not be confused about this problem because you're given us so much. Travelon tread and where to find the president would say. Wow. Let's not bother these poor fellows about trade. Let's take their half billion in base services. And and and that with that is an example of a strategic policy goals overwhelming commercial policy go but I think you really have to take a look at that. And I guess what I'm saying is that we all like to get more from them and and I don't blame you for being impatient. But it is going to be an ongoing struggle of negotiation to see see where the equities go. We for instance. If another example, we have allowed the Japanese to begin building a new fighter airplane with the using technology from American. That's a very large and for the common defense, but in America for take care of you from hardliners, we're getting enormous criticism for letting that technology Escape in from commercial interest. We're getting enormous criticism for allowing a Japan to get into the last area where the United States seem to have an enormous weed. That is airframe ETC. So every time we make What we think it's an improvement now, there's a fair amount of criticism of it. So it's hard to know exactly how it Go. And so we probably steer and uneven course at not fast enough speed but everyday somebody working on it. Finally a listener wanted to know how soon we should expect to see a reduction in the federal budget deficit and How Deeply might the cuts be to the military budget proposal is to reduce that rate of increase in what he calls a flexible freeze the flexibility being that if Kinder and gentler is required and they care or education that comes up and but every time you have a Kinder and gentler you got to have something meaner and nastier and that's got to be reduced at the same time. I believe that works, but the stand you've been in this business a long enough to know that the reductions were talking about are based at least about in 1/2 If I gross Over a four-year period on interest rate reduction that is the capital markets appreciation of the fact that the budget is now under some kind of control and and the interest rates to come down. And then that's if you take the abortion assumptions or the Boston feldstein assumptions. Are you talking about about to interest rate points over the next four years off of off of Baseline assumption that may be a little Rosie if it is and if our growth rates are not projected correctly, then you are going to need some Revenue to make that. But it is possible to do it the way he suggests. I believe that the Congress and the president will decide at the first cut which will be I think next September that that's the right way to do it. The problem is the president comes in with a pledge and if you know the president, you know, he takes his pleasure. Seriously. This is not just some joke that you can invent a new definition and then wish it away. So he's going he's going to try to stick to that Congress in the end. I think he's going to agree but that doesn't mean the next year. You might not have to change particularly. If you got less than two and a half percent growth looks to me like there's at least there's some probability that that will occur until you may have to add some Revenue but I don't think you will the first time around Oh, I'm sorry. I didn't respond to that part of it. I think with with George Bush that's going to be hard to do. He is committed to a to a current Services budget. That is last year's expenditures bus CPI Reagan always so I went much higher than that and lately has gotten beat back down to that. Actually we've had little ass in the current Services budget the last two years the fact however, the bush starts there. I take a sort of a Salvatore development. I believe that that we can cut military much more substantially than the president is suggesting. I believe the Congress is going to insist on heavier cuz they're trying to trade off some domestic program. But at this point the the future is murky and I can't predict how that's going to work out at as I say the presidents starting from a lower base than his predecessor. Oshi a shins go as they have a before I think we could expect real cuts and defense I'm big fire last night. Minnesota Congressman Bill frenzel speaking to the Minnesota International Center on the topic the foreign policy of the new Administration no friends all the foreign policy of the new Administration.