Transcripts

BOB: Throughout the history of the United States and its negotiations or non-negotiations, whatever the case may be, with American Indians, South Dakota has been a spot where there have been a good many problems, and that is true today as it was in the 19th century.

Now, there is another problem that has developed, some American Indian Movement leaders and people are at the camp called the Yellow Thunder Camp, which is on US property in South Dakota. They say they're not going to leave. A deadline was set for them to move out by midnight last night. They did not go.

Another group of Indians, the Oglala Sioux, have come to an agreement with the government. Well, that's about all I know about what's going on in South Dakota. But our reporter for Minnesota Public Radio in Sioux Falls, Mark Steil, has been covering the story. And Mark, maybe you can fill us in a little bit on those two very separate situations.

MARK STEIL: Right, Bob. The deadline for the Dakota AIM camp, the Dakota American Indian Movement camp near Rapid City, passed at midnight last night. And the Indians did not move out. And they said in the past they're going to stay until the hills are returned to the Indians. The camp is still there this morning, and the government is expected to file a suit-- a civil suit against the Indians, asking the court to force the camp to disband. That's one camp.

The second camp, founded by Oglala Sioux tribal members toward the end of June, was disbanded on Monday, and they were also faced with a similar civil suit filed by the US Attorney's Office. In the face of that suit and because of promises from the federal government that negotiations on the hills would continue, the tribe agreed to disband their camp on Monday.

So now-- the way the situation is now, one camp is still in existence, the AIM camp. While the second camp, the Oglala Sioux camp, has been disbanded. Although some of its members have reportedly moved to a new site near Bear Butte, another area considered sacred to the Indians.

BOB: Mark, before we get into the legalities of all of this and what the government is going to do, what is it about that camp, where the AIM people, Russell Means and his people are located? What is it about that area that they want? What is the issue there?

MARK STEIL: The first thing they'll tell you, when you ask them why they are camping in the hills and why they want the land back is, they say the land is sacred to them. They call it their church. It's their home ground, the land of their ancestors. It's a traditional religious area for the Sioux, where they go to hold religious ceremonies and honor their ancestors.

BOB: Is the idea then to give them that land is what they want, the ownership of that land, so that there will be no other people there, no whites or other people in that area?

MARK STEIL: When you ask Russell Means, one of the leaders of the AIM camp, he'll tell you that they don't necessarily want to evict the white people from the Black Hills. They say they want title to the hills back, but that white people, the towns, and especially the various tourist areas would be allowed to remain.

What they want is the national land, the federal land under their control for their own purposes. They don't want to evict all white people from the hills or turn the hills into an Indian community exclusively. But they do want the Forest Service land back, the national land.

BOB: Another question that comes up is Means is quoted as saying that "they're going to stay there, and they'll give their lives if they have to." Now, that is that Russell Means rhetoric or is this the beginning of another Wounded Knee, some forecast of violence to come?

MARK STEIL: When you put the question to Russell Means directly, you get the feeling that it's partially rhetoric. Because when you follow it up with what kind of action will you take? How will you defend yourself against the federal government? He won't say really. He'll say, well, that's up to them to press us, and we'll react accordingly.

There are no weapons in the camp and he's said, from the beginning, there will be no weapons. So it's hard or the strategy, if he has one, he won't reveal it, other than to say that the Indians are there to stay and that they don't intend to leave.

BOB: Well, the midnight deadline passed. They're still there. There has been a change in the US Attorney's Office in South Dakota. What role is that office going to play?

MARK STEIL: It was interesting. A week ago, the-- a week ago, Monday, was the last day for Terry Pechota as US attorney. Now, Pechota is a member of the Rosebud Sioux tribe. And I talked to him several days before he left office, and his feeling was that the government should not step in to file any kind of suit, any kind of court action to force the Indians out. He said, rather, negotiations should continue quietly between members of the Justice Department, his office. And the Federal Interior Department had tried to bring the situation to an end.

Now, Pechota took over on September 1st. And immediately, he-- or rather one of his first actions was to file suit against the Oglala Sioux camp. That was last week. And as I said earlier, the Sioux then vacated that camp. And he's expected-- or he said yesterday that he would file another suit against the AIM camp today to try to bring that occupation to an end. So I guess with the change in the US Attorney's came a change in philosophy on how to handle the Indian situation in the Black Hills.

BOB: Now, we only have about a minute left here. But should a suit be filed? And the decision handed down by a court is that the Indians have to leave. Is there any guarantee that the Indians are going to leave?

MARK STEIL: Well, as the Indians have said, they will not leave. And I think the federal government strategy now is to exhaust all possible means of ending the situation peacefully, including the court action.

And what they would do after the court action became final-- assuming it does, and that the Indians were asked to leave, and that the Indians did not leave-- what the federal government would do after that really is up in the air. And nobody is tipping their hands as to how they hope to end the occupation if the Indians refuse to leave.

BOB: Any sign of US Marshals or other law enforcement personnel, their FBI?

MARK STEIL: Apparently not. Means claimed earlier in the summer that the FBI was watching the camp, and apparently one FBI agent did make a trip up to the camp. But basically, the camp is monitored by flyovers and maybe routine visits from Forest Service personnel. The government is very careful not to, in any way, confront the Indians. So they pretty much leave the Indians alone.

BOB: All right, Mark, Thank you very much. A very complete report. We appreciate it.

MARK STEIL: Thank you, Bob.

BOB: Bye now. Mark Steil, our Minnesota Public Radio reporter in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, covering that continuing story.