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SPEAKER: These special broadcasts of the Mondale Lectures are made possible in part with a grant from LRB Incorporated.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

A public affairs presentation of Minnesota Public Radio.

BOB POTTER: Good afternoon, everyone, from the University of Minnesota in Minneapolis. Minnesota Public Radio presents a lecture by the former vice president of the United States of America, Walter F. Mondale. I'm Bob Potter, reporting from Northrop Auditorium on the Minneapolis campus of the university.

This will be the first of three lectures the former vice president will deliver in Minnesota, as part of an arrangement he has made with three institutions of higher learning in this state. Mr. Mondale will speak this noon on his experiences as vice president of the United States.

Members of Mondale's Washington staff have said that he will not write a book on the vice presidential years, and therefore this address may be the most definitive comment we will have on the Mondale vice presidential years for some time.

The next lecture in this series will be next Tuesday evening at Macalester College in St. Paul, where Mr. Mondale's topic will be foreign policy. And this series of three lectures will conclude on Monday, March 2, at the College of St. Thomas in St. Paul, where Walter Mondale will address himself to domestic policy concerns.

The former vice president appears here at Northrop today in his role as distinguished university fellow in law and public affairs. The program will begin in just a few moments, with remarks by Harlan Cleveland, director of the Hubert Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs. Professor Cleveland will introduce the president of the University of Minnesota, C. Peter Magrath who will in turn introduce Walter Mondale.

This lecture was originally to be held at the Student Union Building at the university. But when it began to appear that the seating capacity of that facility would be exceeded, the lecture was moved to Northrop Auditorium. The main floor is filled. It has a capacity, we're told of some 3,000 people. And now here is Harlan Cleveland.

HARLAN CLEVELAND: For those of you that have not yet had a chance to meet, I'm Harlan Cleveland, director of the Hubert H. Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs. And delighted to be the sponsor of this affair. We're very glad to have with us in the audience, Monsignor Terrence Murphy, president of the College of St. Thomas. And a person who's been so very helpful in our whole program of education for reflective leadership this year, Curt Carlson of the Carlson Companies.

Our mandate is the advanced study of governance and graduate education for reflective leadership. We're delighted that Vice President Mondale, one of our nation's most reflective leaders, has now joined us to share his experience with the university and the wider community we serve, and also to refresh his mind and spirit at this moment of transition in his own life.

Last Friday, the Board of Regents unanimously appointed the former vice president as Distinguished University Fellow in Law and Public Affairs, a joint appointment in the law school and the Humphrey Institute. We had suggested that this fruitful new relationship should begin with a thoughtful retrospection on the unique Mondale vice presidency.

In our whole constitutional history, no vice president has been so intimately a part of the presidency itself. For four years at least, we've seen that the vice president doesn't have to be a ribbon cutting political salesman, kept busy with marginal assignments remote from the exercise of presidential power.

To capture and record this unusual experience, to sort out for us the policy issues on which he suited up as part of the White House team, our new colleague has undertaken to give a series of three lectures in as many weeks. The first, here today, explores the institution of the vice presidency itself.

The second lecture at Macalester College next Tuesday evening, February 24, one week from tonight, deals with international questions that arose during the Carter-Mondale presidency. The third lecture on domestic policy issues will be given Monday, March 2, at the College of St. Thomas. All of the lectures are open to the public and free.

Northrop is too big an arena for a dialogue. But half an hour after the vice president's lecture, those who would like to pursue further the ideas he presents here are invited to step across the way to the smaller auditorium in Murphy Hall, where Mr. Mondale has agreed to be available for questions and discussion.

And now for the congenial task of introducing our speaker, I will ask President Magrath to come to the podium.

[APPLAUSE]

BOB POTTER: That was Harlan Cleveland, the director of the Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs. And here is C. Peter Magrath, president of the University of Minnesota.

C. PETER MAGRATH: Mr. Vice President, Regents, distinguished faculty, guests from the community and from area colleges, but most of all, students at the University of Minnesota, welcome to the largest classroom on the largest campus in the United States.

Today, I am privileged to serve as the teaching assistant to Professor Mondale, having the honor of introducing his three part lecture series. The first of which will examine the vice presidency. The instructor is familiar to everyone who has followed Minnesota or national politics for the last two decades.

He is a Minnesota native. Born in 1928, and raised in Elmore. There, he distinguished himself as co-captain of his high school football team, winning the dubious nickname of Crazy Legs Mondale.

[LAUGHTER]

After graduation, he enrolled at Macalester College, where upon the prompting of his political science instructor, he showed up at a Minneapolis mayoral campaign rally for a local politician by the name of Hubert H. Humphrey. Soon after that, the eager freshman volunteered his talents as a worker in Humphrey's re-election campaign.

Hubert won that election. And a young campaign worker won a mentor, a model, and a friend for life. Walter Mondale later transferred to the University of Minnesota, and one year later graduated with honors from the College of Liberal Arts. After two years in the army, he was discharged in 1953, return to the university to take up law studies. Three years later, he graduated with a law degree, and married Joan Adams, an art historian.

He was never far from politics, and helped his friend Orville Freeman win the governorship of Minnesota in 1954 in two subsequent re-election bids. In the meantime, he practiced privately and as a special assistant attorney general for the state.

In 1960, at the youthful age of 32, Mondale was appointed by Governor Freeman to fill the vacancy created by the resignation of Attorney General Miles Lord. He was elected to a full term in 1962.

Walter Mondale served as attorney general for four years, and upon the election of Hubert Humphrey as vice president, he assumed Hubert's seat in the United States Senate. In 1966 and again in 1972, Minnesota voters elected him for full senatorial terms. In 1976, Jimmy Carter invited Walter Mondale to become his vice presidential running mate.

And this successful campaign meant that our state of Minnesota again provided as it so often has, a major leader on the national and international stage of public affairs. The Regents of the University of Minnesota and our entire community in this dynamic state of Minnesota, are honored to have you back on campus, Mr. Vice President.

Your willingness to spend time in the school of law, from which you graduated, speaks to your commitment to education, to the law, and your alma mater. And there is no more fitting tribute to Hubert H. Humphrey than to have you serve as the first distinguished fellow in the institute that proudly carries his name, with pride and with personal thanks, I present to you a distinguished American and an international leader, Walter F. Mondale.

[APPLAUSE]

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you, Peter. Thank you.

BOB POTTER: Those words of introduction and brief thumbnail sketch of Walter Mondale, delivered by C. Peter Magrath, president of the University of Minnesota. Mr Mondale now at the lectern, smiling and waving and acknowledging the applause of the several thousand people here at Northrop Auditorium on the university campus. And here is Walter F. Mondale.

WALTER MONDALE: Thank you very much, President Magrath, for those very, very kind words and your gifted historical research. Thank you, Ambassador Cleveland, Dean Stein, members of the Board of Regents, faculty, students, President Davis of Macalester College, Monsignor Murphy, president of the College of St. Thomas, Curt Carlson, who has contributed, and I know we all join together and urge that he continues to contribute so generously to the University of Minnesota, and to all of the students and friends here today.

I'm honored to speak with you today, and I'm honored especially to be back at the University of Minnesota, which has meant so much to me in my life. I'm honored to have the chance to address the student bodies of Macalester and St. Thomas as well.

The focus of my first lecture will be on the American presidency and the vice presidency. And I want to share with you in the first speech I've given since November 4, the experience that I've had these past four years as vice president of our magnificent nation.

I know that the question that is on every mind in this room is this, how many vice presidents have there been?

[LAUGHTER]

And I'm here to settle that question. There have been 39 presidents, or actually 38, because President Cleveland is counted twice because his terms were not consecutive. Of those presidents, 35 had vice presidents. Because four of the men succeeded to the presidency, were not subsequently elected in their own right, and never had vice presidents.

Since eight of the 35 had two vice presidents, and since one had three vice presidents, there have actually been 44 presidential vice presidential teams. However, only 42 individuals have held the Office of Vice President, but two of the 42 each served under two different presidents. And I'm glad to have this chance to clear it up.

Secondly, I would like to answer the next question that is on everyone's mind today. And that is how do you become a vice president? And I've held a secret locked in my heart now for over four years as to how I did it. And I have chosen this occasion to come clean with the American people.

Several others competed with me in wanting to run with Jimmy Carter-- Senator Muskie, Senator Glenn, and Senator Church. I decided cleverly to let them go to Plains first. And it worked this way. First, Senator Muskie went to Plains, Georgia. And upon his arrival went up to Governor Carter and said he was dying to see the peanut trees.

[LAUGHTER]

Then John Glenn arrived, sidled up to Rosalynn and whispered that his favorite food was green eyed peas.

Carter didn't invite Church down there so Frank Church called him and said among other things that he had a relative who once served in the army in Georgia. And Carter said, who's that? And he said, General Sherman.

Then I went down to Plains. Carter rushed up to the plane and met me and said, Fritz, if you'll keep your mouth shut, the job's yours.

[LAUGHTER]

[APPLAUSE]

I said a moment ago how much I appreciated what this institution, with the public and private colleges, have meant to me all my life. I'll never forget attending Macalester, and then attending the university and all the help and all the support and all the opportunity that this has meant to me throughout my life.

We are blessed as Minnesotans, particularly young Minnesotans are blessed. I do not believe there is a state in the nation that accords their young more opportunity to achieve and to fulfill their lives than the state of Minnesota.

And I'm proud to be back here to repay some of the debt, just some of the debt that I owe to Minnesota. And in the context of the Humphrey Institute, to that man who is one of the most remarkably gifted and compassionate public servants in the history of democracy, Hubert Humphrey.

I want to talk about the institution of the vice presidency. And in that context, some of the developments over these past four years. I do believe that we have broken new institutional ground. I do believe that the example that we've set is one which has benefited this nation, and is one which I hope will now be followed by all future presidents and vice presidents.

And today I would like to talk about how we shape that new approach, some of the experiences that we had, and why I believe a vice president can, in a very important way, serve a president and his nation.

It all began in June of 1976, when I began to ponder what my answer would be if Governor Carter had asked me to be his running mate. I read his book. I analyzed positions and statements that he'd made. And then I talked, as I always did, to Hubert Humphrey.

I approached my conversation with him with some apprehension. Because I had thought that his four years as vice president had been so difficult and heartbreaking that he would clearly advise me not to respond affirmatively. His answer surprised me then. It wouldn't if it were given to me today. He said something like this.

He said, Fritz, those four years as vice president were the most exciting of my life. I learned more about our country and our government and about the world than I could in any other way. I think I'm a better man because of it. If you have a chance, take it.

Shortly thereafter, I received an invitation for Joan and me to travel to Plains, Georgia, a town which he thought was small but is substantially larger than Ceylon, Minnesota, where I was born. And I went down with a good deal of mixed feelings. I'd been in the Senate for 12 years. And I loved it.

I had no intention of substituting a position where I could vote and participate on all the significant issues of our day, for an office that was purely ceremonial and hollow. And I was anxious to find out from the then Governor Carter, how he viewed the vice presidency? And what role I would be permitted to play if we ran together and if we won?

And I was very pleased by what he said. He had said he had read many of the histories of past presidencies. And he was shocked by the way this office had been underemployed and wasted in the past. He was shocked by how ill-prepared those vice presidents had been, who on a moment's notice, had suddenly become president.

He said he thought that many of the presidents had feared a vice president. He reminded them of their mortality. He seemed to be a threat to their authority. And thus, they were diminished in role and in stature.

He told me that he did not share that view. That the president's authority under the constitution was so clear that a vice president could not possibly take that authority from him. And he told me he wanted to have a vice president who would have a substantive role in both foreign and domestic affairs, and who would be prepared immediately to assume the presidency should that be necessary.

Now, that sounded just right to me. But I was reminded over the next several weeks that the choice was not really mine to make. It was Carter's. And finally, on the last day of our Democratic convention, at 8:30 in the morning, Governor Carter called and asked me if I wanted to be his running mate. I thought the whole matter over again for four seconds, and said yes.

[LAUGHTER]

Throughout the campaign that followed, we didn't have time to discuss the institution of the vice presidency because of the demands of the campaign. But after the election, I immediately went to work, to see if somehow we could shape an approach for my vice presidency that would avoid the problems that had so beleaguered this office for nearly 200 years.

Once again I went back to Hubert. I spent a good deal of time with Rockefeller. I read all of the literature that I could find. I met the staffs of former vice presidents, clear back to the age of Harry Truman. And finally, I had a constitutional history of the office prepared.

In December of '76, I sent to President Carter, Elect Carter, a memorandum defining the role that I thought I could best play. It was the product of my work. And it contained within it the elements of what I thought would be a role most helpful to a president, and one which would be one of significance.

I've reread this memo several times in preparation for today's lecture. And I would like to just briefly define the various elements of my proposal. First of all, I propose that my basic assignment would be as a general advisor to the president. Beyond this, I proposed other functions, including troubleshooting, work on the broad range of domestic issues, work on foreign and diplomatic representation, work on congressional relations, and finally, the political activities that were to be expected of me.

Finally, I indicated my desire to devote special time and attention to the State of Minnesota. And I also indicated Jones desire to play a strong part in the administration's support for the arts and the humanities. And this is not my text, but I think Joan Mondale did a wonderful job these past four years, and I'm proud of her.

[APPLAUSE]

We had a long discussion, and Carter agreed completely with the memo. And he made one other suggestion, which was, I think the first time in American history that had happened, and that he asked that the vice president office be in the West Wing of the White House. That didn't seem too significant to me at the time, but in matter of fact, it was one of the most important steps that we took.

Someone said that nothing "propinqs" like propinquity. And I can say that is true. Carter was determined to have a successful presidency, and I was determined to avoid a meaningless vice presidency. And from that common purpose, we built a solid relationship in the months and the years to come. And that relationship held up under the unbelievable searing pressure of that place.

Because we entered our offices understanding, perhaps for the first time in the history of those offices, that each of us could do a better job if we maintained the trust of the other. And for four years, that trust endured.

Of all that we agreed to, perhaps my most important role was the one I first mentioned, that of general advisor to the president. An advisor must be ready to advise. He must have a capable staff preparing him to do so. The president and I directed our staffs to work as a team, and in fact, they did.

An advisor must have a grasp of the background and the details of all crucial issues. And for four years I had access to all papers, classified and otherwise, that the president saw. Now, that may sound like a little matter, but you cannot possibly imagine the tremendous volume of paper that flows into and from the president's personal office.

You cannot possibly imagine, unless you've been a part of it, the tremendous flow of secret classified information on defense, on the political situations and nations around the world and so on, assessments and appraisals made by our intelligence communities and the rest, that flow into and from a president. I think I'm the first vice president in American history that was privy to every bit of it, including the most highly classified of all documents-- the morning presidential daily brief.

An advisor must also participate in those meetings which prepare recommendations for the president. And I was a member of every single established and ad hoc group that prepared recommendations to the president.

Secondly, an advisor must have access to the president. He must be able to directly advise a president. And in practice, for the first time, I think, in American history, I had that access. As a matter of fact, when we first began, the president said, you are invited to every meeting that I have scheduled. And I could pick and choose, and did throughout those four years, all meetings at any time.

When Walter Heller came to town to shape our economic policies that worked so well, I was in there with Walter, as he explained why high inflation was good for it.

[LAUGHTER]

And so on.

[APPLAUSE]

We had an institution which we called the Weekly Luncheon, where once a week, we would have a private luncheon to discuss any matters that he wished to discuss or I wish to discuss. What we said or discussed was confidential and will remain so. But what I was trying to achieve is not-- the president-- sometimes he said, the president is a lonely man, and the presidency is a lonely job.

And in one sense, that's true. But in terms of pressure, in terms of the paper that comes into that office, in terms of the number of groups that come in to see him, from the Congress and from all sources in the country, it is the least lonesome job imaginable.

What the president needs is not more and more information, although that is often helpful. He needs a few people who can help them appraise it and evaluate it. He needs people that he can sit down and discuss problems with confidentially, and get the help that he needs in finally deciding what he wishes to do.

He needs to hear voices that speak, not from a special interest group or a particular parochial interest, but from a national perspective. He has no limit to the number of people who want to talk to him. But that does not assure him of the confidentiality, he needs to speak freely.

He also has no limit to the number of people who censor themselves within his earshot, even though what a president usually needs is blunt, direct, and often critical advice. And that's a phenomenon I'll never understand.

I've known so many friends of mine that would come into my office in the White House and said, I'm going to go and see the president a few minutes, and I'm going to tell that man, I'm going to tell him bluntly the mistakes he's making, and he's going to get it raw from me. I said, that's wonderful. Let's go in. He needs the advice.

And you get into the Oval Office. He said, "Hello, Mr. President. How's Rosalynn and Amy? You are doing a wonderful job. Hawks would become doves. Conservatives would become Liberals. I didn't recognize half my friends when they got in there. There's a cleansing process that is unbelievable. And that does not help a president.

The best thing you can do for a president is to let him know exactly what you think, speak to him directly and as candidly as possible. And I found that a vice president is uniquely suited to meeting these needs.

When a vice president advises the president, he does not have to speak for any department goal or constituency or any cause. He can be a source of independent judgment. He does not need to censor himself. He can speak frankly, and he can sit down and discuss the matter with the president in a way in which a president wishes to do so. And that's what we did throughout these last four years on virtually every important matter.

And although I have not agreed with every decision the president made, not once in four years was I surprised by what the administration did for I took part in every one of his major decisions.

Secondly, I helped determine the president's agenda. And that may seem like a small matter, but there are dreadful limits, to a president's time, to a budget, to the Congress's ability to deal with matters, to the number of foreign governments that he can deal with personally, interest groups, and the rest.

There is a limited ability that the president can have any president to through these tremendous demands. A limit to the government's and the bureaucracy's ability to focus on them. And a limit to the public's ability to wade through them.

Major ideas take time to gather momentum in a democracy. That one of the first things you learn in the White House is how both impressive and strong the presidency is on the one hand, and yet how incredibly weak it is if the American people do not accept and support and understand what it is that a president wishes to do.

And the only way that a president can lead is with a set of priorities that are coherent and understandable and consistent, and which the institutions and the American people can follow. Without that, inertia always wins. Our system is built up in a way to check and to balance and to slow down and deter, unless the American people have decided to move.

And thus the agenda and the priority setting is crucial, and I helped work with the president on that goal. Throughout our term, I worked with the Congress to achieve our legislative goals. And in the process, I really learned the meaning of the separation of powers. Those words I learned at the law school.

When I was a Senator, I used to look down Pennsylvania Avenue and say, how is it that all the power is found in the White house? And then I sat in the White House and I looked down in the other direction toward the Capitol, and I said, how is it that all of the power is in the Congress?

The fact of it is, it separated between co-equal branches of government, and executive legislative relations is absolutely crucial to any effective governmental policies. And this need that the president has for help in legislative assistance. I think is much greater now than it has been for several years for two reasons. And it has changed a good deal since I first went to the Senate.

First power is more widely dispersed today in the Congress than it used to be. Individual members are much more independent, from Central congressional leadership than in the past. And thus tend to be more responsive to a local constituencies demands than to a general national direction.

Secondly, without any doubt, the president's influence in Congress has declined. This, I hope, can be a topic of another discussion. But for some 15 years now, presidential leadership has been ravaged by the public reaction to Vietnam, by the appalling information that came out in what we call Watergate, by the abuses of intelligence agencies some years ago.

And the reaction has been not to try just to correct those problems, but in many ways to impede and undermine the authority of a president that this nation needs to deal effectively with our problems at home and abroad. And that reduction in presidential influence is found most clearly in the questioning that the Congress always raises against a president. The president, any president, will need help in congressional relations.

In the last four years, the measures we tried to pass were not simple. They were some of the most complex and controversial in American history, whether it was the comprehensive energy program, or the natural gas pricing and distribution conflict that had been deadlocked for some 30 years, arms control measures and the rest.

One of the classic examples was the Panama Canal Treaties, a very complex measure. When we proposed the Panama Canal Treaties, the first poll that came out said that 8% of the American people supported us. Our opponents raised questions about security and foreign policy, and the benefits of the Panama Canal Treaties were very intangible, measured mostly in terms of the grief that we'd avoided.

And yet they were absolutely crucial. As a matter of fact, some four or five presidents of both political parties for 15 years had tried and failed to pass the Panama Canal Treaty legislation. In the end, we passed it, by a narrow vote in the House and by a single vote in the United States Senate.

And I involve myself every step of the way, meeting with senators and with members of the House, coordinating the work of our legislative staffs, mapping out strategy with leaders and presiding over the Senate during crucial moments of our deliberation.

There's one unique aspect of the institution of vice presidency that is often overlooked, and that is he is the only officer in the federal government who belongs to two branches of government. The only officer who breaches the separation of power, being a member of both the legislative and the executive branches of government.

That helped me because I knew the Senate. I knew its rules and its methods, its moods and most of its members, and was able to help, adopt, and ratify those treaties. With the president's encouragement, I also acted as one of the president's principal spokesmen here and abroad.

A president's public education responsibility may be the most important responsibility he has. And when properly conducted, the most significant power that a president possesses. Teddy Roosevelt called it, "occupying the bully pulpit." It goes to the very heart of his capacity to lead, and to gain the trust and the support he must have. And any president needs all the help he can get.

I worked to extend the president's reach to the public. I estimate that I've traveled nearly 600,000 miles during the four years of my vice presidency. I visited nearly every state, visited editorial boards, had interviews, everything I could do to support our policies. I would often with specific issues like the SALT II accords that we had to pull down because of the invasion of Afghanistan.

Would go on the road for a week, sometimes longer. And go to foreign policy groups and the rest to argue the case for something that was essential. Secondly, a president needs political support. In all during these four years, I campaigned for members of the Congress, and the Senate, and others, all over this nation.

In 1980, I campaigned in the greatest number of primaries and caucuses our party had ever held. If you can believe it, I even ended up in towns that not even Hubert Humphrey had ever been in. And I'll never forget ending up in the famous town of Mingo Junction, Ohio. I'm sure most of you have been there.

And the mayor got up and he said, we're very pleased to have the vice president with us here today. We haven't had an important person here. Then there was a long pause. He said, as a of fact, we've never had an important person here before. We lost Mingo junction.

I talked with civic and political leaders around the nation and thousands and thousands of Americans. And this too, I hope, will be another topic of discussion sometime. And that is that campaigns, I think, are thought by most Americans to be times when a politician tells the American people, what he intends to do or thinks.

The only campaigns that are worth anything are those in which the politician listens carefully, and tries to learn and respond to the needs of the people of this country. And it was in the process of that kind of political support for the president, that I was able to gain information, suggestions, advice, and insight, which I would bring to the president whenever I return from those trips.

Of all of the areas in which I served, one of the most important to me was in the field of intelligence, national security, and foreign policy. The president agreed that in addition to my domestic role, I would help him in these areas. I headed several diplomatic missions abroad, starting just two days after the inaugural, when I visited the heads of government of the United Kingdom, Belgium, including NATO and common market headquarters, Germany, France, Italy, and Japan.

In preparing for this speech, I listed the number of countries that I have visited with diplomatic missions in the last four years, some 26 nations covering virtually every part of the world. I spoke to the United Nations conference on Indochinese refugees as well in Geneva, and the conference on disarmament at the General Assembly in New York.

I received literally hundreds of foreign leaders over these past four years from all over the world in my office in the White House. I worked closely with the president's personnel, security officials throughout government.

I was a member of a small group, which met weekly, the so-called Friday Morning Foreign Policy Breakfast, which became a little noted but extremely important regular meeting with the president at which most of the crucial foreign policy decisions were made.

In addition, I spent hundreds of hours over the last years in informal meetings, phone conversations and the rest with the range of officers who make and implement foreign policies. These experiences were very, very helpful to me in permitting me to serve the president and for several different reasons.

First, I was privy to all the information bearing on the decisions that had to be made. Secondly, because the public perception of the role, the president permitted me to play. I was able to bring about decisions within our own government, bearing upon relations with other nations. And you might say, well, what's so impressive about getting your own government? To decide anything.

If any of you join government, you'll find it's the toughest job of all. And to pull different agencies together, to get differing points of view resolved, to get decisions made, to move on, is often the most difficult of all tasks, and particularly when the issues are tough. Let me give you one example.

In the summer of '79, you all recall, the world viewed one of the most tragic human situations that we've seen in recent history. Thousands and thousands of Indochinese were expelled cruelly and barbarically out to sea, unsafe boats, overcrowded, inadequate food. And we estimate at one time nearly half of them lost their lives before they reached any other destination.

These refugees were subjected to piracy, which I thought was a thing of the past but which wasn't. They were literally overwhelming, the nations as well of Thailand, Malaysia, moving into the Philippines, down through Indonesia, all the way into Australia, and even some to New Zealand. An absolutely tragic, overwhelming crisis for the civilized world.

We had coming up a UN conference on refugees in Geneva. It was not at all clear that the conference was going to do anything but talk. The Vietnamese had built a backfire against the success of the conference. And the hope for success depended on our own government doing certain things that could enhance our leadership, and because of that, permit us to lead at that conference.

I was asked by the president to go to Geneva to represent us there. And in the process, I discovered there were several crucial decisions that we had to make, in terms of funding, in terms of construction of facilities, in terms of coordinating our approach with other countries, and in my opinion, in terms of taking the Seventh Fleet and actually ordering them to go out and pick up these people from the oceans before they drown.

We were able to get our government to make those decisions. We went to Geneva. And because of those decisions, we're able to get the international community to move effectively, quickly, to put unbearable pressure on the Vietnamese to stop it. And now, as you know, there has been a dramatic change in a cessation of that problem.

There have been many, many other examples of this. When I visited China on behalf of the president a year and a half ago, we had normalized relations. But it was basically a nominal relationship because we had not done those specific, taken those specific steps in economics, and trade, and security, and so on, which should characterize the mature relationships between the United States and another major power.

We were able to make those decisions before we went to China. And I think, it's not bragging to say, that as a result of that mission, the relationships between the United States and the People's Republic of China was enormously enhanced, and we're on a fine and a solid basis today.

The same was true of a mission that we took to Nigeria, where we had several outstanding, unresolved, long delayed issues between our two nations that aggravated the relations between the United States and that great country, the richest and most powerful and influential Black nation on Earth. We were able to resolve those differences, and we entered into a range of agreements that are fundamental in nature.

I point these matters out because I hope that future vice presidents will be assigned this essential role. There are so many nations that deserve and expect high level, policy sensitive attention of a personal nature. A president simply doesn't have the time to do as much as the situation warrants, and if he tried, he could do nothing else.

And this is one role, particularly, where a vice president can be of enormous help. The appendix is a part of the body which once served a useful function, but has atrophied. Because with the passage of time the need for it, disappeared.

What I've been trying to stress this afternoon is that the vice presidency is virtually the mirror image, the opposite and converse of the appendix. Evolution, the growth, and ferment of American political institutions has transformed the vice presidency from a vestigial role to a viable and a vital one.

For generations, the vice presidency's unique qualities have all been dormant. But changes in the presidency have meant that those qualities, for the first time, are being invigorated.

Over years, the more intimidating a president's powers became, the less likely he grew to hear Frank talk. And that is what the confidentiality of the vice president's unique relationship can provide.

The more the nation demanded a president personally to do, the less time he had to sort through and order those priorities. And that's what a vice president's special freedom from line responsibility can help him accomplish.

The more bureaucratic and streetwise the president's own executive branch became, the less able he was to coax decisions from it. And that is what the vice president's inherent distance from intermural allegiance can help him attempt.

The more complex the Congress became, the less sure of the president grew that his legislative program would be acted on. And that is where the vice president's constitutional double identity can be mobilized.

The more dense and intricate the issues facing Americans became, the less easy it was for the president alone to educate and lead the nation. And that is where the vice president's electoral mandate from all the people can be put to use.

The more complex and diverse our political life became, the less possible it was for the president to sense the texture that mayors and governors feel and listen to the music that members of Congress hear in their district. And that is what a vice president's experience can help the president learn.

The more the American presidency was drawn into the life and course of other nations, the less time there was to devote his calendar and presence to each region. And that is where the vice president's unparalleled ability to be deputized for foreign missions can extend his reach.

I began this lecture talking about my advice to President Carter. In a sense, the whole matter came full circle this fall when I met with Vice President-elect Bush and told him what I thought he should do as vice president.

I said to him then that I thought there was something in the relation between President Carter and I. That was more than personal. Though in the end, everything depended on the relationship of confidence and trust.

I believe there were some institutional lessons to be learned about what we had done, and I offered some of those lessons to Mr. Bush in the form of advice. And I must say in the first few weeks of this administration, I believe Mr. Bush and President Reagan are showing every sign of understanding the potential of the vice president's office, and I commend them for it.

The advice I gave to Mr. Bush, is that which I would give to any future vice president. One, advise the president confidentially. The only reason to state publicly what you have told the president is to take credit for his success or to try to escape blame for failure. And either way, there is no quicker way to undermine your relationship with the president and lose your effectiveness. A president shouldn't and won't tolerate it.

Secondly, don't wear a president down. He should be bright enough to catch your meaning the first time. Give your advice once and give it well. You have a right to be heard, not obeyed. A president must decide, debates must end, this nation must move on, and you must be a part of that decision making process.

Third, as a spokesman for the administration. Stay on the facts. A president should not want, the public does not respect a vice president who does nothing, but deliver fulsome praise of a president. He should want, and the people respect, sound, factual, reasoned arguments on his behalf. This office that I've held is important enough not to be demeaned by its occupant delivering obsequious flattery.

Fourth, understand your role as a spokesman. It's important. But also understand that you probably can't support every idea that comes out of an administration. A wise president who values his vice president will not make the mistake of forcing the vice president to speak for something with which he fundamentally disagrees.

Fifth, avoid line authority assignments. If such an assignment is important, it will cut across the responsibilities of one or two cabinet officers or others, and embroil you in a bureaucratic fight that would be disastrous. If it is meaningless or trivial, it will undermine your reputation and squander your time, as most vice presidents have found out.

I could give several examples of duties that were offered that I turned down. One day the president announced that I was in charge of Africa. I declined. There were sighs of relief all through Africa. And it wouldn't work, in my opinion, because first of all, the personnel, the skills, the experience required to handle that were clear beyond anything a vice president could assemble or should want to assemble.

Secondly, the skills in the state department and elsewhere are superb, and there's absolutely no reason why a vice president cannot work cooperatively with the existing agencies where he can be helpful in achieving these results. And that's what we did.

Secondly, one day it was suggested that I was going to be the chief of staff of the White House. I turned it down on the spot. If I had taken on that assignment, it would have consumed vast amounts of my time with staff work and distracted me from important work.

Sixth, the vice president should remember the importance of personal compatibility. He should try to complement the president's skills. And finally and perhaps in a real sense, the most important of all, be ready to assume the presidency.

We all know the story of President Truman in succeeding on Roosevelt's death, with no knowledge of the Manhattan Project, which for a long time, had been underway. President Carter did not want me to need three or four months of on-the-job training in the presidency, if the need arose. As he said so often, he wanted to be ready the same moment the nation would need me to be ready.

Political scientists have studied the vice presidency, and have suggested a number of ways of changing it. Some propose that a presidential candidate be required to name his running mate before he enters the first primary. Others say that we should leave a substantial time open at the convention, and the delegates themselves independently nominate the vice president.

It's been suggested that the vice president be given statutory or constitutional additional authority, from running the White House, to the Budget Office, a cabinet agency, and even this last year, a suggestion of some kind of co-presidency. Others have suggested that the office be eliminated entirely.

I don't want to dwell on these specific suggestions, but let me make just two points in closing. First, I believe that any change in the vice presidency, which would weaken, diminish, dilute or divide the presidency is a grave, grave mistake. To say that the increased problems of our present faces requires a new mandated division of labor in the White House, in my opinion, gets it the wrong way around.

The more a president must do, the stronger his office must be. There can be no doubt of who's boss and who's running the executive branch of the government. And the purpose of a vice president is to add to his strength, not to sap it.

Secondly, I don't believe that statutory or constitutional changes are the appropriate way to keep the institution of the vice presidency from returning to its centuries of hibernation. Instead, I think it's about the force-- I think it's the force of evolution-- the marvelous, resilient, adaptive energy of our free political system that is the more appropriate engine of change.

There is much in our modern government, not part of our original constitution-- the political parties, the primary process, judicial determination, even the presidential news conference. All of these have evolved along with the nation, and so have the enormous range of responsibilities that fall on a president's shoulders.

In our century, as the president's powers have grown, so has his responsibility for the prosperity of our economy, the stature of our country overseas, the health of democracy abroad, peace in the world. In recent years, the American president has found himself the focus of rising expectation and the target of our mounting demands.

John Steinbeck put it this way, "We give the president more work than a man can do, more responsibility than a man should take, more pressure than a man can bear. We abuse him often and rarely praise him. We wear him out, use him up, eat him up. And with all this, Americans have a love for the president that goes beyond loyalty or party or nationality-- he is ours, and we exercise the right to destroy him."

Just as the demands of the president have risen, so the president, I thought, could the Office of the Vice President be used to help to meet them? And in remaking this role, we established a new tradition. I hope and I believe, that we have broken new and significant institutional grounds that has and will served our nation well.

Now you may be wondering, now that I've sketched all the ground that we've broken, the duties that I performed, and the successes that we've achieved, how is it then that we lost the election? I have the answer, but I'm out of time. Thank you.

[APPLAUSE]

BOB POTTER: The former vice president of the United States, Walter F. Mondale, speaking at a lecture at Northrop Auditorium at the University of Minnesota, Minneapolis campus.

Mr. Mondale spoke on the institution of the vice presidency in the United States. He spoke here today under the auspices of the Hubert H. Humphrey Institute of Public Affairs and the University of Minnesota School of Law.

The central thesis of Mr. Mondale's remarks were that the role of the vice presidency has changed over the years. The president is simply so busy and so involved and so unable to deal with everything that comes up that the vice president can assume a major role, primarily as a general advisor.

Mr. Mondale talked about the importance of accessibility to presidential information, how he received the same papers, confidential and otherwise, that went to Mr. Carter. He talked about the importance of speaking confidentially and very honestly with the president, saying that the vice president can speak for a well-reasoned national perspective rather than a regional one or a special interest perspective that of course the president receives from the many thousands of people who come to visit him over the course of a term of office.

Mondale talked about the importance of helping the president with his congressional relations with various foreign policy matters. He talked about specifically affecting national policy on the Indochina refugee situation, and on the Senate ratification of the Panama Canal Treaties.

What you heard today was the first in a series of three public lectures that the former vice president will deliver at Minnesota colleges. The second of these lectures will be next Tuesday evening at Macalester College in St. Paul. On that date, Mr. Mondale will speak on the topic of foreign policy.

And the last lecture will be given the following Monday night, March 2, at the College of St. Thomas in St. Paul, where his topic will be domestic policy.

The technical director for this broadcast was Tom Keith and Linda Murray. I'm Bob Potter, reporting live from Northrop Auditorium. This program has been a production of Minnesota Public Radio, a listener supported broadcast service.

SPEAKER: These special broadcasts of the Mondale Lectures are made possible in part with a grant from LRB Incorporated.